phf: asciilifeform: yes, they do, i did some research into subj and it's literally java on winblows

phf: of course cyclone is an order of magnitude higher technological achievement than rust. reminds me of common lisper "we brought garbage collector java". so it goes.

phf: i somehow thought that stack overflow programming was a non-reflective activity, sort of like "hello sir madam, howdo i write network program in java??" comments on popular "epoll vs. kqueue performance analysis" posts back in the day

phf: “adapting to industry shifts and student feedback, the computer science department has implemented various changes to its introductory courses, CS106 and CS107. This spring, a pilot version of CS106A, tentatively called CS106J, will be taught in Javascript instead of Java. Meanwhile, CS106S: “Programming Abstractions and Social Good” is being offered as a standalone class for the first time this winter, encouraging students to consider the s

phf: lars bak used to work on high performance smalltalk virtual machines, then java. v8 is still the case "ok, let me write some semblance of sane technology for this shit language of yours". since then everything that's happened around javascript is cargoculting v8

phf: at some point you could easily find small collections of early gosling quotes, which are really quite harsh and were liberally in anti-java arguments, but now i can't find any :o

phf: gosling knew what he was doing when he designed java, said so himself.

phf: "The company will mold you to their exacting specifications to do whatever form of service they require. You will happily comply, in this as in all things. For example, if your company needs a Java-speaking systems engineer and you have a degree in Art History, this is not a problem because you can be fixed."

phf: trinque: i'd like to at least try it out. i'm unconvinced clim is a good idea, because there aren't any good implementations. mcclim is terribly over-engineered (in the best of java style, with delegates for proxies etc.), clim codebase that lispworks/allegro share is less so, but more hacky. which makes me wonder if clim spec itself is suspect ☟︎☟︎

phf: i think i watched notch livecoding a wolfenstein clone in java on twitch. it was mildly entertaining, because he was writing everything from scratch (i.e. tick locked mainloop, ray casting onto an awt canvas, etc.)

phf: amusingly enough java, via joda-time, is one of the few solutions that get it right

phf: mircea_popescu: gosling, the guy who designed java, is notable for recognizing the right thing, but intentionally committing an atrocity of java as a language for the corporate programming. in one of his interviews he says something along the lines of "at least we got ~them~ to use a garbage collector". before java gc was an explicitly lisp thing, which is also gosling's pedigree

phf: that's my impression of american "lucrative" corporate jobs though, because people that i know from that place went on to very similar places, and that's what they do. code as part of special clojure team in a company that's all java, or code in f# for a special f# team in a company that's all .NET. they get drunk during lunch, shit faced on fridays

phf: well, even named closures are broken, like in java you can't mutate outside state

phf: to be abcl would've benefited greatly from making their java ffi as nice as the one in clojure. that is of course a marketing problem, and that's something hicky thought about very carefully

phf: it's not really a secret why java, every time someone like alf starts talking about cogs in the machine the inevitable answer is "duh", that was the whole point, josling says as much in his early interviews, including the famous "at least we got them to grok gc"

phf: exactly same arguments i'd use to convince someone to use tinyscheme i can use to convince ~myself~ to use java..

phf: above is entirely java stack, and the quoted parts only talk about storage aspect. (accumulo is layer on top of hadoop's hdfs)