BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> hm, i like girls that wash ashtrays. i don't mean empty them in the trash, i mean actually wash the damned things. << Wait this thing I've been doing forever is unusual? I always wash the ashtrays at least weekly
mircea_popescu: *: BingoBoingo wonders about serious matters such as will Cardano prototype factory make the eventual loper prototype << my hope is that in the 2020s. but i've been off before by an xmas or two.
BingoBoingo: Prolly best to talk about these things in terms of reward halvings rather than xmas's.
bounce: once had a job contract that forbade me from minding smoke. but at home I very much prefer no smoking at all.
mircea_popescu: bounce i don't care either way. maybe i;m the only person left i guess.
BingoBoingo: bounce: How do you become functional in the morning without coffee and cigarettes? Gotta mix your stims.
mircea_popescu: the us "debate", an engine wasting time and paper while going from unpolarized to polarized.
bounce: how? just like erryday
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo he has a point there, this "need coffee to wake up" thing is nonsense. i know this experimentally.
BingoBoingo: What, you just carry your hangovers until they fade away on their own?
mircea_popescu: i never drink again anything that gives me a hangover.
bounce: rarely drink these days, but plenty water before bed means no headache, just lingering alcohol
BingoBoingo: <bounce> rarely drink these days, but plenty water before bed means no headache, just lingering alcohol << What's the point of drinking if you un-drunk yourself so soon?
mircea_popescu: "do you wanna be able to get it out or do you wanna not be able to get it out ?"
BingoBoingo: What else is practice for? Some people pull trucks with their teeth. Some people practice other feats of physical performance.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: me - i don't want jsonism in my book. << anything actually solidified in your head as to what you actually want ? sigs, really ?
bounce: printable text that can nonetheless be verified. that'd be interesting.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: but now i don't see this thing as going anywhere << what, srlsy ?
bounce would add 2d barcodes (QR or something) for the sigantures
mats_cd03: someone once told me life is too short to avoid hangovers
mircea_popescu: it's going, it's going, don't blame the relative fixed position of mountains on the ass derping in the road.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes: classic russian fatalism <<< aaaaaaaahahaha, how do you know this ?
undata: mircea_popescu: I think you missed the point of my comment on open source, which was in response to "how will we ever finish the deturdification"
mircea_popescu: hmm, anyone taking bets on the name of the chick that informed mr fox as to the intricacies of the russian soul ?
undata: by assigning tasks and chipping away, that's how, and by brutally criticizing contributions
undata: I get offended to my core when someone says "can't be done, lets give up"
undata: and I think I misintepreted people when hearing that
undata: asciilifeform: yep addressed
mircea_popescu: now lyf is devoid of ultimate significance, i will give up on lyfing!
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The "drill" in the book is fun.
BingoBoingo: Make dummie, savage dummy, imagine doing it better, reassemble dummie, repeat
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "how to defend yourself against the banana fiend" ?
bounce: .oO( is this automutilation or just autotrolling? )
mircea_popescu: ;;google monty python how to defend yourself banana fiend
undata: mircea_popescu: I can take a trolling; my response was to ignore it
mircea_popescu: undata anyway, get the current code, build it and see what happens.
mircea_popescu: for all we fucking know atm, bitcoin hardforked in march 2013 and nobody noticed.
undata: mircea_popescu: built and patched; will fiddle more later
bounce: can you self-defend against wookies?
undata hooks a drive up to begin blockchain slurp
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: with no weird 'now please delete blkindex' crud << this is never going to happen on the current db (bdb) because it's a pos, and if the computer fails unexpectedly it messes up the state.
mircea_popescu: nothing to do with bitcoin, well documented bdb issue.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: can't say as i recall, the impression was formed over the course of 3 raves in quarries in the depths of oregon forests over my sixteenth summer.
mircea_popescu: actually, it's perhaps not premature to start the subscription list of everyone's favourite db solution
mircea_popescu: this is perhaps the most important, momentuous architectura decision
bounce: courts tend to frown on defendants wielding fairbarn-sykes knives in session
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know this looks like fucking advanced heroes of might and magic over here. barons, lords, heroes, dragons
undata: asciilifeform: that's with the two patches, or something new?
BingoBoingo: bounce: But it is a historical artifact which sits on collectible display next to bed.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, a perfectly acceptable alternative : modular db, clearly documented bitcoin hooks, write-your-own-1klines or less api for anything.
BingoBoingo: Sheer coincidence I reached for Fairbairn Sykes and not Chris Carpenter Bobblehead
mircea_popescu: there IS some significant ops advantage to not running any one stock db.
mircea_popescu: that's unavoidable, otherwise thing won't pass into 2014.
bounce: fairbarn-sykes in a collectible display case? what's it made off, star wars plastic?
mircea_popescu: if you think satoshi's stuff can not be refactored to the point of rewriting, you're living inside a candy globe.
BingoBoingo: bounce> fairbarn-sykes in a collectible display case? what's it made off, star wars plastic? << Not in case, on nightstand. Made of whatever wartime shitiron England was using.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4883 @ 0.00080436 = 3.9277 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: just getting rid of boost is going to entail that.
mircea_popescu: good lord, he wants to rewrite cl as part of rewriting bitcoin
ben_vulpes: code quality and performance is highly dependent on author, skills.
mircea_popescu: so the plan is, a) make new processor file as ascii art in emacs
assbot: US Company Seeks to offer Regulator Approved Bitcoin Options Market - Slashdot
mircea_popescu: mats_cd03 i think that only works on floor-shy victims neh ?
undata: BingoBoingo: probably hence the 45
mircea_popescu: thickasthieves: so he can go to forest and see if it's broken << lawl.
mats_cd03: mircea_popescu: yeah, victim could get on their back as a defense
mircea_popescu: victim could go down, take your feet from under you, have you fall on your own knife.
mircea_popescu: (you have a lot of forward mommentum running for the 22 feet in 2 s)
BingoBoingo: undata: Well you also have to consider, anatomically that mean focusing on their left side and trying to slot in between just the right ribs, vs left side just hitting anything open and soft hoping for the abdominal aorta
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13300 @ 0.00080248 = 10.673 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: (rampant memory leakage is not 'works') << it's not rampant. more like a calender than a ruptured pipe. it... sweats memory :D
assbot: Нож против пистолета. Реальная эффективность клинка на к... — смотреть онлайн видео, бесплатно!
mircea_popescu: bounce: did I get that about right? << "that bitcoin thing, aka some fiat nonsense trying to call itself bitcoin", rather than "this bitcoin thing" :)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform gotta love how it's "pistolette" in russian.
bounce: plenty people falling for the ruse though
bounce wonders what this executive chief sellout thinks of that open letter posted by a member on their own forum
mircea_popescu: cazalla: my god this hag of a wife, god must be punishing by introducing her to me before bitcoin << tell us your pain brothar. we're the relationship support cult, among other things.
BingoBoingo suspects Matonis actually despises the monster he helped nurture
BingoBoingo: Most people do, so has he had his period yet, or is he mourning starfish virginity?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo originally he was all excited about derpfoundation. back then we were on speaking terms, so i told him he's nuts. he thought i was nuts. then he got all unexcited, and left. then he came back. now he's leaving.
BingoBoingo: Seems to happen to a lot of the 2011-2012 Americans
mircea_popescu: you might remember all the huge tada in 2013 re putting a bunch of derps on the "press list" and excluding matonis, on the grounds that the derps were well versed in things from wikipedia practice or something
ben_vulpes: what the ever loving fuck is a press list and--nevermind.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes you got it. about the time i threw my hands up too.
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Twas the list the Foundation herded Journos towards
mircea_popescu: PeterL: why would they do that? <<< because they're business school majors, and this means social studies, and this means they don't understand that words carry meaning.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4600 @ 0.00080436 = 3.7001 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: ahhhh holy shit you guys i just bought a flipphone
ben_vulpes: hammering out texts without even looking at the keypad
mircea_popescu: assbot: The Inside Story Of Matt Taibbi's Departure From First Look Media - The Intercept <<< what they don't want to say is teh real scoop - "people heard about the qntra model and it killed anyone's will to life i nany competing project."
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Who here prefers other phones?
mircea_popescu: samsung, too cheap to even justify the paint to put a model number on it.
bounce: nokia 6310. needs new battery.
BingoBoingo: Seriously wireless cheapass cellphone, because what else is it for?
bounce: no seriously. had an e52 but it sucked so much I went back.
BingoBoingo needs to get a Western Electric for the return of dialup days
assbot: samsung gt-e1205q - Google Search
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes> dafuq am i going to do with bt pop the chip out?
jurov: ^ sadly, never went into rpoduction
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Indeed. Used to be GTE, then Verizon, now Frontier or muni fiber
kakobrekla: there prolly one or two laying somewhere
assbot: Kim Kardashian turns tech guru as she speaks at Recode conference | Daily Mail Online
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1300 @ 0.00080115 = 1.0415 BTC [-]
bounce: the samsung GT-E1107 is kinda cute except that the solar panel feature doesn't actually work very much at all.
bounce: also shittier sound quality than 6310. better battery life though, since newer.
assbot: BREAKING NEWS: Suspected cop-killer Eric Frein FOUND after leading cops on seven-week manhunt | Daily Mail Online
bounce: seven weeks. does that resolve any bets?
kakobrekla: asciilifeform that phone is quite famous. like model m for keyboards i hear. was designed by some slovenian dude.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Tube 5 is most important tube
kakobrekla: >It has been over 30 years since the distinguished Slovenian designer Davorin Savnik designed an Electronic Telephone Apparatus (ETA) 85 for Iskra. Beside the fact that it won numerous awards for design and that you can still see the phone being used today, the design got stolen and was a big hit in USA.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo: See, my reading of the story is that the Silicon Valley management style is even more broken than typical 'Murican MBA bullshit. <<< really, it's just a lot more inconsistent. meaning the scary stories are TRUELY scary.
mircea_popescu: pretty much the only thing us management has going for it generally is consistency anyway.
BingoBoingo: Which is broken when it comes to punishment
mircea_popescu: consistency has its own sort of hell, so it all depends.
mircea_popescu: ;;google jennifer aniston in that retarded film with the flares
undata: how many years will I be waiting for a blockchain
BingoBoingo: undata: We don't measure time here with years. We use halvings and blockdepth
undata: asciilifeform: I'll keep logs
ben_vulpes: and if unpatched - 0.5.3 will wedge at some large block.
assbot: Logged on 30-10-2014 18:53:30; assbot: Logged on 30-10-2014 17:09:54; asciilifeform: in other news, turd firmly wedged at block height 252450.
mircea_popescu: WHY it wedges where is already gravy for our little project here.,
ben_vulpes: ah - asciilifeform which block number?
assbot: Jennifer Aniston - IMDb
ben_vulpes: my 0.5.3 is down because xcode is a resource hog
mircea_popescu: nubbins` you're not serious if you don't put #ifdef book : turn page on the cover.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Her career is sad because of the Sitcom curse. If one successfully does TV, the best they can hope for is to do Windows ads with Bill Gates as Seinfeld did.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo yeah looks like an inverted porn career. chick turns 17 and 11 months, does 170 featurs that year, then 50 the next and then 2 a year to pay rent til 65.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform she's the sorta-fuckable cali blonde that tits-and-assgelina jolie massacred to get the mimbo at the time
BingoBoingo: On the plus side though B movies have never been this profitable ever in history thanks to netflix
mircea_popescu: i forget who his name is. played flock of seagulls in true romance
ben_vulpes: 252448 is 243.23046875 KB according to blockchain.info
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform doesn't know who jolie is/was either, but no matter << Titless IRL Laura Croft
ben_vulpes is desperate to see logs from that block, but must run own self.
assbot: Say Something Nice About systemd - Slashdot
ben_vulpes: kiddo to my right laughed at me when i started texting lady v - "how are you even going to -- whoaaaaa."
mircea_popescu: somehow ? how about "can't read the system logs no more!"
nubbins`: there are larger blocks than 252448 before it
nubbins`: yeah i've suffered a couple chokes here but seems to be still downloading blocks
mircea_popescu: well the b onus of leaking software is that it's guaranteed to act impredictably at least some of the time
ben_vulpes: this is actually a thing that i am working on.
mircea_popescu: of the whole thing ? no. of parts of the whole thing ?
ben_vulpes: not being cpp competent, a useful thing for me to do is write a bash btc harness that points bitcoinds at each other for mining, tx validation, broadcast, etc.
ben_vulpes: harkens back to my work with robots at one point.
Luke-Jr: kakobrekla: do I need to ban you from the wiki, or will you respect alphabetical order on the Gambling list from now on?
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller listen, you ever got that cookieshop thing off the ground ? actually deliering ?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: this *can* test behavior with ill-behaved nodes.
ben_vulpes: what, am i to expect my test harness to sprout warts spontaneously?
ben_vulpes: i know that i'm a barbarian but i'm more of a Sven than a Hulk.
ben_vulpes: in the notion of testing with which I am familiar at least.
ben_vulpes: what these software cultists do -- has no bearing.
undata: there's something beautiful about downloading the blockchain
undata: sitting back while history replays at high speed
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: The bitcoin.it thing Gox turned over to Thermos
nubbins`: y'know, i've got a newspaper for sale...
ben_vulpes: > 36983pankkake13luke-jr2014-10-20 18:03:571Technically competent
kakobrekla: Luke-Jr ah didnt know it was alphabetical. i thought dicks come first.
kakobrekla: Luke-Jr will respect you authoritah on the wiki.
undata: nubbins`: a global permanent record of anything you like; your newspaper can suck it.
BingoBoingo: kakobrekla: Sounds like you need a domain redirecting to BitBet such as aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaBitbet.su
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so you're the guy that put child pronz in the block ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5050 @ 0.00080104 = 4.0453 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and therefore the secret to being a whore is to fuck all ?
mircea_popescu: hey, good predictive power in your semantic structure.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> asciilifeform and therefore the secret to being a whore is to fuck all ? << No, secret to being a whore is to be firm on prices.
undata: the secret to being a whore is to fuck all
BingoBoingo: Well, yeah, core memory is super tempestable
assbot: The Russian Computer That Ran On Water
nubbins`: i made cheese beer bread today
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10750 @ 0.00080197 = 8.6212 BTC [+] {2}
undata: mircea_popescu: regarding db, would you loathe sqlite?
undata: those can get pretty massive and still do well
BingoBoingo: Bitcoin's not going anywhere, if you are going to introduce a dependency for storage why not just leap to ZFS?
undata: well, you'll otherwise reinvent acid and whatnot yourself
undata: but that should be the goal then
Luke-Jr: kakobrekla: anything we can do to make it clearer? there should have been a comment at the top explaining
mircea_popescu: now the advantage to an actual fs is that since you know your blocks wil be 1mb tops, you can actually make the sectors 1mb size.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform actually i just had my finger in the right cunt.
kakobrekla: Luke-Jr maybe its just common sense, that i lack of.
Luke-Jr: kakobrekla: heh, well, the whole reason for that policy was because people kept fighting over order/positioning on that page XD
mircea_popescu: tho honestly i am not convinced a fs is less work than a byodb hook
nubbins`: running stock 0.5.3 is less work ;)
kakobrekla: Luke-Jr let us fight. we will see who the better coder is.
mircea_popescu: Luke-Jr from experince, nothing short of a site random display will solv that problem
mircea_popescu: people will start registering 1something domains link them to their main site
Luke-Jr: mircea_popescu: well, that's why we go based on the main site name, not the domain
kakobrekla: mircea_popescu let them do 1. ill start with 0.
Luke-Jr: randomising might work if that gets abused, but that takes effort
mircea_popescu: Luke-Jr i'd think randomising entries less effort than policing "main domain name" rules, but anyway, no idea wtf this even is so.
nubbins`: _youraddictionbyplacinganotherbet.us
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform myeah. encouraging how clearly you can see right through their bs.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: If it were only a management dispute why would I link it?
Luke-Jr: mircea_popescu: well, that's part of why the comment states upfront you'll just get banned first time if you screw with the order - I just noticed kakobrekla's name so decided it'd be better to talk to him here first instead :p
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's my expectation of 5yos, yes, but recently they make broken ones or something.
assbot: Extension:Random - MediaWiki
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3700 @ 0.00079632 = 2.9464 BTC [-] {2}
undata: asciilifeform: how else were they supposed to hotfix it later?
undata: asciilifeform: though there's the risk of a bad flash
undata: then my joke is dead to me
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform of course you realise with 1mb sectors the current size of the charade would be 30+ gb.
assbot: For Capitalism! pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> they get milk dishes, but will happily nibble on the toes of the maths students who visit << What, no warfarin in the milk?
mircea_popescu: if anyone is a hdd afficionado, do some math as to what gain in speed justifies a 5x gain in file size ? at current and/or historical price per speed and price per size.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if you compress below fs layer then the fixed blocks thing is kinda a meh idea.
mircea_popescu: do you even have a candidate for pillaging in mind or wtf fs is even trustworthy
mircea_popescu: rewriting bitcoin is one thing. writing a new fs is a fucking dumb idea.
BingoBoingo: What's wrong with FFS? ... In one of its hundreds of incarnations...
mircea_popescu: there is no way you can do anything novel and useful in terms of fs.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5200 @ 0.00079592 = 4.1388 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so what, only support s.nsa produced hard drives ?
mircea_popescu: so who are you going to steal the hardware drivers from
mircea_popescu: maybe i don't iunderstand what you mean by "make own fs" and "bare metal" in that order.
assbot: About | Datarecovery.com
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Last I checked. They opened the Toronto lab entirely for recruiting russian speakers
BingoBoingo remembers being paid dor a tape cataloguing job one summer partially in vodka
BingoBoingo disappointed they redesigned their website into a js turd
assbot: [ASM (NASM)] int 13 - Pastebin.com
assbot: US Company Seeks to offer Regulator Approved Bitcoin Options Market - Slashdot
assbot: Bach - Little Fugue on Eight Floppy Drives - YouTube
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Maybe both. Maybe they have a new firmware tool? They really wanted operators though because PC 9000 kept pissing Ben off.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: As far as the history of that firm goes though he did start out though as an audio/speaker guy
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2742 @ 0.00079762 = 2.1871 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: Began by doing work setting up for various "bands" and saying technology and finding out people were approaching him with dead hard drives because he said technology
nubbins`: downloading the blockchain is slooooow.
nubbins`: running this in a vm, worth throwing extra ram at it?
nubbins`: i've got a paltry gb allocated now
assbot: 17 Moments of Spring - Gde-To Daleko (Somewhere Far Away) HQ - YouTube
dignork: nubbins`: btw if you're trying to boot the 0.5.3 version, try the -testnet first, the db is smaller, and it's supposed to contain borderline crazy transactions
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10200 @ 0.00079905 = 8.1503 BTC [+]
dignork: nubbins`: I cowrdly take this back: current testnet is a 3rd chain - I think genesis block was switched, but not sure when exactly, so 0.5.3 might have an old genesis block :(
assbot: Butnskala - Lisice - YouTube
mircea_popescu: <nubbins`> running this in a vm, worth throwing extra ram at it? <<< yes, up to 16gb markedly helps
BingoBoingo: So I'm pricing used workstations. All of the opteron based stuff in the past 6 years is pretty equivalent, yes?
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BingoBoingo: I could start a university computer lab with that shit
mod6: the fs idea is sexy, and indeed ufs2 w/soft updates would be probably best, which is default for everything post fbsd 5 iirc.
mats_cd03: BingoBoingo: youre tempting me to buy a workstation of my own
mod6: but sounds like we're getting into RE-ENGINEER ALL THE THINGS if we start to not trust whatever is already out there
BingoBoingo: mats_cd03: I have wanted ECC ram for about a decade now, but never pulled the trigger on it
mats_cd03: i was under the impression most motherboards support ECC and non-ECC
BingoBoingo: mats_cd03: From what I understand ECC is still a luxury sold to the discerning which the "cloud" is trying to handwave over
mod6: asciilifeform: perhaps. i worry that we're all of the sudden going to fork *bsd and make mpexos
BingoBoingo: Now that people are finally reading GNU utils I imagine split will be from OpenBSD 5.X -current
mod6: do you mean 'real' as in systemv?
BingoBoingo: My domicile was slow rolled by the local 5-0 about half an our ago so mzt misssspelt words
mod6: so, since we're talking about it, what would be the most idea env for such a reference implentation? a fully stripped openbsd with a custom fs & drivers?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16432 @ 0.00079592 = 13.0786 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo really wants the disorderly conduct case to fucking end
BingoBoingo: mod6: OpenBSD on its own is prolly hostile enough to dev in
mod6: so you wouldn't say, want to strip kern mods out or whatever?
mod6: what about wintel eth drivers?
mod6: what about like 69000 other things?
BingoBoingo: What ken mods? OpenBSD offers two kernels bsd and bsd.mp, if you want more fuck you
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Problem is book has wants too
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7200 @ 0.00079592 = 5.7306 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: Actually... in cariac replacement parts, mechanical failures tend to kill first.
BingoBoingo: like dad's brave little plastic aortic valve
BingoBoingo: Code does what it is, without regard for the underlying
mod6: <+asciilifeform> like, your whole reich goes down << wouldn't it be grand to have a spec so people can use that to build their own compliant reference implementation?
mod6: im pretty sure that im not smart enough for this conversation
assbot: Logged on 21-10-2014 00:36:11; asciilifeform: a datacenter that can't be diddled from a safe distance is also called 'a nuclear power'
mod6: what I mean is, if your worried about everyone running the same code, 'safety critical code' wouldn't it be good to have some diversity of systems, and decentralized
mod6: you want to force people to use only one version of code?
assbot: Loper OS » The Five Types of Technological Standard
mod6: i don't think the question is why, it's how.
mod6: do you think that all the root servers should use the same code & os?
mod6: well, they dont, for good reason
mod6: there is no correctly.
mod6: there is only better or best.
kakobrekla: there is only non working code atm so stfu.
assbot: Logged on 29-10-2014 04:35:44; asciilifeform: 'suppose every program can be shortened by a line, and contains a bug. therefore all programs can be reduced to one line - which does not work.' - ???
BingoBoingo wonders if Well written bitcoind compatible turd will be larger than blockchain itself
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10056 @ 0.00079582 = 8.0028 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: I'm just thinking about the first, operates "correctly"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7944 @ 0.00079428 = 6.3098 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: Eh, all that mean is lite/dark coin is still moar fucked
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11500 @ 0.00079088 = 9.0951 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4537 @ 0.00079006 = 3.5845 BTC [-]
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 343.8, vol: 14300.96413830 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 342.997, vol: 8307.59393 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 342.5, vol: 56448.03593215 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 341.950176, vol: 87619.21790000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 344.29, vol: 7.57445171 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 344.595249, vol: 88.37658032 | Volume-weighted last average: 342.348557744
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4650 @ 0.0007241 = 3.3671 BTC [-]
assbot: Happy Halloween! | Squirrel Carves Pumpkin - YouTube
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7300 @ 0.00073345 = 5.3542 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3100 @ 0.0007354 = 2.2797 BTC [+]
assbot: BtcAlpha.com F.MPIF Tracker estimated NAV per share: 0.00021818 B (Total: 477.11 B). Delta: -0.38 B. Last trade for F.MPIF on MPEX was at 0.000195 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: "You misunderstand my goals. My goal with 0.5.3 is not to produce a high quality implementation of the bitcoin protocol from Satoshi’s work (people interested in such should take a dependency on software that’s actually rigorously tested like the Conformal codebase. Comparing the tests for *any* version of the Satoshi codebase with the Conformal implementation is like comparing the tests of a first-year Ruby web de
mircea_popescu: veloper using Selenium to exercise his hand-cobbled JavaScript to those of Netflix and their Chaos Gorilla), but to distill the reference implementation into something that can fit in a single human’s head and rip out braindamaged code-arson like the moronic “wallets” and their change behavior."
mircea_popescu: see, ben_vulpes is the right guy for the foundation job. clearly.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell pete_dushenski seems your blog ate out my coment. this is like rape.
ben_vulpes: also asciilifeform you want this to move at f1 speed
ben_vulpes: and we're working with a rusted model-t.
ben_vulpes: i appreciate your flair for the dramatic but lol chilllllll frere.
ben_vulpes: i understand that you've made commitments that your contract with us does not support.
ben_vulpes: a) let the contract terminate, accept our sw in its current state, shit your pants, blow your demo.
ben_vulpes: b) retain us through the demo day, and let us work with your technical team to do the best we can (all we've ever promised) to make you look good for your next big relationship.
ben_vulpes: c) retain us to do b) and also ship kickass native semantic apis on both platforms.
mircea_popescu: dear client, here is our contract and here is our previous agreement. if you would like to modify either, please forward me the required modifications and i will send you the corresponding quote.
ben_vulpes: client is shitting pants and needs giving a way out.
ben_vulpes: i swear half what i do is herd cats and the other half is tell clients what the fuck to do.
ben_vulpes: oh well there's a "here's what you should do" section as well.
mircea_popescu: then maybe leave just that and appear all friendzoned-and-happy-about-it
mircea_popescu: in any case the part you quoted is bad voodoo, and you know that's what it is.
mircea_popescu: how the fuck is one to know lol, you come in here with your pseudoquotes and pseudocode and etc :D
ben_vulpes: i actually want these guys to do well. they've apparently fallen into an infinite buy wall for what they do.
mircea_popescu: so then be all dumpy naive, in the worst case they end up relying on you.
mircea_popescu: in the best case they're actually managed by sane people and you get paid.
ben_vulpes: i did get a sane guy on the phone today.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: mod6: idea was, blockchain, as potentially the majority user of future hdd space on planet, deserves own (ab initio) scheme of mapping to block device. <<< this is actually a solid point
mircea_popescu: tho you know how this shit flows, people who are sane get talked over by various locally optimizing idiots who know better
mircea_popescu: then we end up with the engine misplaced for 150 fucking years.
ben_vulpes: <Luke-Jr> mircea_popescu: well, that's part of why the comment states upfront you'll just get banned first time if you screw with the order - I just noticed kakobrekla's name so decided it'd be better to talk to him here first instead :p << dig the power of the wot
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes you're not about to blame a guy for being nice are you ?
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: How many customers deep does this go?
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: someone cutting check for dev services.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo: mod6: I prefer the term Stanix << as in "the dyslexic coder sold his soul to stanix" ?
BingoBoingo: I think the biggest MP endorsment of hardware b-a so far is how much less time spent at the keyboard happens now compared to timisoara
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: one of the things pretty much no one (save possibly mircea_popescu) << possibly eh ?
mircea_popescu: i'm writing you down in my little black book OF INSULTS
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Just seems in Buenos Aires you spend less time on the Keyboard than you did in Timisoara
mircea_popescu: well, the town is larger, fucking all the girls takes longer i guess.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: butbut... the spec's right here! <<< not terribly fair. the mercedes is not made out of coffee like code is.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: diversity of systems << idiocy << no dude. if bitcoin code all ran on the same platform that'd be pretty much the end.
ben_vulpes: <mats_cd03> mircea_popescu: i retched << wuss
mircea_popescu: gotta get the girls dirty now and again, best thing for 'em.
ben_vulpes: keeps the immune system from attacking itself.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: therein lies the real chthonian ur-terror here. <<< nah, we know it works. we just can't prove it to arbitrary standards yet.
ben_vulpes: oh lol you said "prove" in the context of software around asciilifeform
mircea_popescu: "Selenium IDE is a Firefox plugin which records and plays back user interactions with the browser. "
mircea_popescu: fuck me sally. they got excel "macros" for firefox now ?
ben_vulpes: i've only ever seen the programmable stuff.
ben_vulpes wonders if anyone's running on the 0.5.3 testnet
BingoBoingo: What hardware B-A ran out of girls already?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9115 @ 0.00072852 = 6.6405 BTC [-]
assbot: Girls check out guys crotch bulge on train - YouTube
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3500 @ 0.00072589 = 2.5406 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2207 @ 0.00072767 = 1.606 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8300 @ 0.0007305 = 6.0632 BTC [+] {3}
cazalla: looks like it was quiet on the news front, i pissed off and spent half the day at the beach
cazalla: up myself when i'm already up, amazing
cazalla: gotta get some beer so i can yell at the kids who dare come to my doorstep and ask trick or treat in australia
cazalla: punkman, really good, hot day here too but not many ladies around
cazalla: missus gave me a filthy look when i got back though
cazalla: prob cause she has been stuck at home all day with bubs and she realised i'd been at the beach once i got home
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1377 @ 0.00073197 = 1.0079 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9993 @ 0.00073078 = 7.3027 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Your own personal Google. · fetching.io
punkman: guys says he will offer non-cloud version
assbot: Australian Silk Road Merchant Sentenced To 11 Years Jail, Loses 24,500 Bitcoin To Boot | Qntra.net
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9000 @ 0.00074294 = 6.6865 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2450 @ 0.00074294 = 1.8202 BTC [+]
cazalla: no drink november, it's 10:15pm on 31st october and i'm having some beers so this ensures i fail no drink november as of 12:01am november 1st
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5199 @ 0.00073426 = 3.8174 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3300 @ 0.00073027 = 2.4099 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20200 @ 0.00073019 = 14.7498 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2600 @ 0.00072714 = 1.8906 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6950 @ 0.0007257 = 5.0436 BTC [-]
cazalla: so i take a piss and it's all red and i'm thinking i knew it, i knew it, it's fucking cancer
cazalla: then i remember i made beetroot relish for tmw and ate a bunch of beets while cooking
cazalla: so ya know, it's probably not cancer
thickasthieves: <+mircea_popescu> it does look like pussy, jurov's phone... /// but it does resemble a uterus
chetty: <cazalla> so i take a piss and it's all red and i'm thinking i knew it, i knew it, it's fucking cancer// or ebola
thickasthieves: "This discolouration of the urine, to red or pink, after eating beets is called beeturia. It’s caused by the betalain pigments in the beets, breaking down and being excreted. The stomach acid and the flora of the gut play an important role in breaking down the pigments in food, so if they are low or compromised you may experience beeturia."
thickasthieves: "Add warming spices to your diet, such as cinnamon, ginger, cardamom, cumin, coriander, chili & fennel seed to help kick start the digestive fire."
cazalla: it only went pink once it hit the water, not like it was a stream of red aids coming out
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10400 @ 0.00072558 = 7.546 BTC [-] {2}
thickasthieves: omg, the tview chat has up/downvoting on EVERY comment
TomServo: thickasthieves: ahah, wow that's awful. Way to fight the good fight though - more patience than I.
xanthyos: 10 btc freeroll on nitrogensports.eu starts in 63 minutes
xanthyos: wonder if the site will mysteriously go down in 62
chetty: <cazalla> it only went pink once it hit the water, not like it was a stream of red aids coming out//check with wife, this also happens with freshly cleaned toilets sometimes
chetty: thickasthieves, I bet thats just paper tho, try and buy the actual stuff at those prices :P
chetty: never bought a ring for the wife?? :P
thickasthieves: thats not the same, but yes jewelers do usually trade gold
thickasthieves: i can probably buy $10k worth by driving 10m down the road
thickasthieves: of course i had a following out with the jeweler so maybe not
chetty: well I dun see much point in all the goldbugs, but I guess to each their own poison
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3350 @ 0.00072792 = 2.4385 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7600 @ 0.00072505 = 5.5104 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4303 @ 0.00072792 = 3.1322 BTC [+]
xiando is monitoring this cult
mircea_popescu: TomServo you know, i'm too old for the cross bullshit.
mircea_popescu: btw, Auction of Souls is a must see, but preferably in the uncut version.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10497 @ 0.00072899 = 7.6522 BTC [+] {2}
TomServo: Well I have no crucifixion plans so, you're good.
assbot: Brent is Angry: 80's Comics Explosion: BEST WORST COMIC, RUNNER-UP; SCIMIDAR! NSFW! ADULTS ONLY!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10100 @ 0.00073191 = 7.3923 BTC [+]
jurov: asciilifeform: in the raw device as database, how do you index utxo to verify incoming transactions?
jurov: you'll still have to steal some code from bdb or do your own
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5704 @ 0.00073197 = 4.1752 BTC [+]
jurov: upon further reading... so stan wants to make everything into own OS. ic.
kakobrekla: well if you are playing 'what stan wants' game you prolly end up with 100% mechanical implementation of bitcoind
mike_c: stan just wanted a book :)
assbot: How to deal with pseudoscience ? pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: <kakobrekla> well if you are playing 'what stan wants' game you prolly end up with 100% mechanical implementation of bitcoind << some things stan wants stan gets, some other things he gets to want even harder!
mike_c: hehe, yeah. a book that mines.
kakobrekla: you know - at least you are dealing with jus one broken stack, not layers upon layers.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4100 @ 0.00073166 = 2.9998 BTC [-] {2}
adlai: here's a new word for the scamtionary: "pre-enroll"
adlai: from
https://pocket.digitalx.com/ which appears to be trying to position itself as an entry point for a new wave of... some demographic that I can't quite pinpoint
adlai: is this a payment processor? web wallet? "merchant portal"? whatever the fuck does that even mean?
adlai: oh well i guess i gotta pre-enroll to find out
adlai: * Only paid upon verification of identity.
adlai still can't tell what the service does, other than pay you $10 for your identity
adlai: there's probably a nice little niche scamming these services
adlai: in its logo, digitalx.com claims association with "digitalBTC"... wut
adlai: but i want my ten dollars!
kakobrekla: for that, you must refuse to do banana dance
assbot: Dance, Monkeys Dance!! - Ernest cline - YouTube
mircea_popescu: <adlai> there's probably a nice little niche scamming these services << and a good thing for that, too. if there weren't no parasites praying on parasites we'd be awash in 'em
assbot: The Siphonaptera - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
kakobrekla: adlai its little fleas until you get to the turtles.
adlai: up next, the long awaited sequel to Atlas Shrugged... "Turtle Dove"
jurov: <kakobrekla> you know - at least you are dealing with jus one broken stack, not layers upon layers. << you know, even newtonian mechanics themselves are just abstraction layer
jurov: but they are broken
jurov: must account for friction, oxidation and whatnot
jurov: second law of thermodynamics describes these leaks pretty nicely
mircea_popescu: newtonian mechanics that leaked memory would be more like, suddenly you end up in a bubble of finite size that's diverged from the rest of the universe
jurov: well, it leaks energy. so we went on to devise machines that would leak something else
mircea_popescu: if you with some regularity could no longer find neither your girlfriend nor her house,
jurov: it does happen. how much stuff gets forgotten everty generation
assbot: Labyrinth Inhabitant Magazine
mircea_popescu: here's a funny point about "supported by history", especially when one means "history as selected by me" :
mircea_popescu: as human history presently stands, the reality of such memory loss is actually supported
jurov: theoretical wanking aside, we're still just beings living off thermodynamical gradients - thus fundamentally something must leak
mircea_popescu: jurov yes but, a register increasing is this sort of leak. you're saying we fundamentally can't live in an immutable world.
jurov: ^ you'll be lucky if that stays true in 40 years
assbot: Reversible computation :: Strange Paths
adlai: asciilifeform: this labyrinth inhabitant thingy seems neat
adlai: you mean anathem, or the "labyrinth inhabitant" concept?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11606 @ 0.00073145 = 8.4892 BTC [-] {2}
kakobrekla: <jurov> well, it leaks energy. so we went on to devise machines that would leak something else < what , computhas dont leak energy? thats new.
assbot: Atlas Shrugged: The Hidden Context of the Book and Film
adlai: imo 'anthem' is much better, can be read in a single s(h)itting
adlai: 'anathem' ≠ 'anthem'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16450 @ 0.00073458 = 12.0838 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: adlai it royally sucks as a "philosophy", or "economic theory", too.
kakobrekla: actually im still here, cause it works w/o the fans.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nah, women are actually smarter than that.
adlai: kakobrekla: ping timeouts generally take more than 40 seconds...
mircea_popescu: compare random paragraphs with random paragraphs culled off sandra brown, it'll be readily apparent in half hour
adlai has seen [Lag: 172+] before
mircea_popescu basks in the glory of being an anthropologist, and therefore politically allowed and intellectually immune to the drawbacks of rooting through the human headshit pile
mircea_popescu: if i'm quirky, it's because all those chemicals in the filters.
adlai: kakobrekla: i also remember why you brought me, but still haven't heard any feedback from you
adlai: ("the code is shit" is valid feedback atm, i'm more interested in the ideas behind it)
adlai: it's lisp, text-to-speech can render it just fine!
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes asciilifeform others : here's an idea, can you make the official code also be a palindrome ?
mircea_popescu: that way nubsy doesn't need to worry which side is up.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know, the official bitcoin foundation official bitcoin core code.
adlai: asciilifeform: you know what the shortest common lisp quine is?
assbot: SparkFun SIM Card - 6 Months (Unlimited Data) - CEL-13186 - SparkFun Electronics
adlai: - is amazing, because CL actually has the concept of a quine programmed into it's specification
adlai: AMAZING COMMONLISPITY!
adlai slinks back to pythonland
mircea_popescu: so his argument goes that well, ussr is not a good example of how socialism generates wealth because it wasn't rich enough to begin with, whereas china is very rich now, so maybe it will try sociaism, notwithstanding that the path it took to get rich is the same path everyone took o get rich, specifically antisocialism.
mircea_popescu: "To broadly claim that socialism fails without examining its proper context and its successes is academically lazy, and betrays a rigidly static view of ideology. Pure and simple."
undata: mircea_popescu: but you see, once you've generated excess you have enough forever.
mircea_popescu: "to say that you will never give us free shit is ~academically~ badword and rigid!!11"
mircea_popescu: holy shit already, people, start whipping your children.
mircea_popescu: the shit they come up with you know ? "to claim that there are no solutions to X equation is RIGID!!!11"
adlai: +mircea_popescu | it can't be a quine, it has to blockchain << who says those are contradictory?
adlai: any program can be a quine
undata: mircea_popescu: also socialist measures of economic growth are never lies
adlai: although the proof doesn't fit in the margin of this irc buffer
mircea_popescu: adlai its output is already specified, and the specification is incompatible with quine
undata: the chinese are on the brink of post-scarcity; you'll see
adlai: it can dump its source code to stderr
adlai: they obviously didn't have turds in mind at the time
mircea_popescu: anyway, why is teh hydra chosen to attempt turning pete of all peeps anyway ?
adlai: we could define that the turd network doesn't count as output, since it's communication between computers and not output to the user
adlai: alternatively, it could modify its own code to include the blockchain
adlai: it can end with the blockchain in a comment, and then when it's outputting, it just keeps spitting out blocks
adlai: what languages would you count as broken?
mircea_popescu: adlai> we could define that the turd network doesn't count as output, since it's communication between computers and not output to the user <<< reading this sort of shit makes my head bleed
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: why are we speaking a broken language? what forces have caused this?
adlai: mircea_popescu: requirements like regulation must adapt to best protect the public's interests
chetty: <adlai> mircea_popescu: requirements like regulation must adapt to best protect the public's interests// whats 'the public'? Who would you protect? and from what?
adlai: the public, from itself!
chetty: <adlai> the public, from itself!//<<< opt out
adlai: by the people, of the people, for the people, from the people, against the people...
assbot: Labyrinth Inhabitant Magazine
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7350 @ 0.00072948 = 5.3617 BTC [-] {2}
undata: asciilifeform: beautiful.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> (not the literal qwerty, but the 'platonic' qwerty seen as the overall human failing where folks agree on buggy shit and then cement it in place through 'sunk cost') << fwiw i disagree with this assesment. english is broken because it's a commercial pigdin, language without a country. the old languages of yurp are actually fine, and to this day more powerful than any synthetic syntax.
assbot: How to deal with pseudoscience ? pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
jurov: <kakobrekla> what , computhas dont leak energy? thats new.<< no i meant we want to devise machines that simulate non-leaking evironment
assbot: Loper OS » The Simplest Lisp Machine
assbot: How to deal with pseudoscience ? pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
bounce: my isn't this an interesting irc conversation
assbot: BTC Guild Shutting Down, May be Sold | Qntra.net
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52000 @ 0.00073865 = 38.4098 BTC [+] {5}
adlai: mircea_popescu: have you seen any serious science done on these topics?
adlai: asciilifeform: who were the sinecures?
adlai: mircea_popescu: the topics which are studied by the pseudosciences which you dismiss
mircea_popescu: the entire field is essentially predicating that marx,cCarnagey, ziggler, the incredible hulk et al are actually scientists, or to be taken seriously.
adlai: i'm not even sure how you'd go about doing such research in a real scientific manner... lots of noise in the signals
mircea_popescu: not so unlike the purely usian folly of taking life advice from movie stars, "since we like this we might also pretend this is good, or right, or whatever"
BingoBoingo: the incredible hulk << Actually a scientist
chetty: actually some that current stuff that calls itself science wouldn't be so bad, it just needs to stop pretending it is science
assbot: The problem of claims pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
chetty: but asciilifeform latest stuff is trying to put them back together
adlai: mircea_popescu: wovon << alongside silence, i'd say questions are also a valid response to ignorance
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform self-styled "regulators" love to whine pathetic about the "irresponsible risk seeking behaviours" of banks or whoever, conveniently omitting to mention that it's the disease of the system, it's what socialism necessarily breeds (through blindness), and that they themselves took some insane gambles. such as the 50 year "let's finance pseudoscience, who knows,\ maybe it pays off"
assbot: What Your Birthday Says About Your Mood And Personality, According To Science
mircea_popescu: adlai the point is that nothing forces you to speak on topics on which you have nothing to say
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well no banker wakes up and thinks "today i will lose some money"
jurov: wtf is this nonsense. "chemist" label was applied only in hidsight
mircea_popescu: jurov yes. in hindsight. by people rejecting wholesale a 1000 years' pile of tradition.
jurov: they did not reject it
jurov: just extracted usable bits
jurov: plus, invented a scope
mircea_popescu: the moment they stopped trying to make gold, they rejected the search for gold.
mircea_popescu: it doesn't take some sort of official pronouncement, like the "chemistry foundation" of 1700 signed a statement that they "now hereby reject the heresy of alchemy"
mircea_popescu: just, as people stopped trying alchemy they rejected it, it's all therein contained.
mircea_popescu: the word sinecure originates from this time, specifically the actual peasant sucking the cock's despising of the uncocksucky position of kepler.
chetty: sadly as long as people keep looking for a 'ticket' this will continue
undata: 100k can march in the street here and the rest do not take note
chetty: well it is sad, I don't have an answer, just recognize the problem, ...what will turn the herd?
undata: americans can't communicate with each other well enough to solve any problems.
undata: asciilifeform: how about owning the means to produce one's own food
undata: that's what I'm aiming for
mircea_popescu: <undata> americans can't communicate with each other well enough to solve any problems. << this is true actually. seriously, "dating guides" ?
undata: if anyone knew, it'd have been done
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> what does it actually take, in terms of resources, to keep a mathematician going? << food.
undata: mircea_popescu: "someday the right master will pour the right answers into my head. then I'll be great, you'll see"
undata: asciilifeform: "knew" without a viable process to get to whats "known" is not "known"
undata: asciilifeform: seems like the opportunity to get it "done" only arises from time to time
undata: there needs to be at that time someone with the sense to lead and the means to offer something in exchange
assbot: Logged on 16-02-2014 00:31:00; asciilifeform: 2 yrs. ago i figured out how to flex a fairly ordinary multi-conductor cable in an arbitrary spot, at an arbitrary angle, purely electrically.
undata: it is likely having grown up here that gives me deep skepticism that things are ever "better"
undata: rather than just in a different shape
undata: glorious leader given the power to reshape society tends to turn it into a masturbation implement
undata: maybe that points to cultivating better fetishes? hah
undata: regardless I'm not the guy
mircea_popescu: <undata> it is likely having grown up here that gives me deep skepticism that things are ever "better" << the canonical form of this is, "it is unlikely for the tadpole that ever lived in the same one puddle to imagine what different puddle means"
undata: I just want to write code and grow food
undata: mircea_popescu: having gained means I will likely do many things I've never done
undata: for now I'll grind my life away
mircea_popescu: speaking of which : anyone want to hear retold the ancient japanese story of the turtle from kyoto and the turtle from osaka ?
mircea_popescu: an old turtle had lived for many years in a pond in kyoto. in the later days a new concubine introduced a habit of throwing strands of silk over the pond, which became fashionable,
mircea_popescu: but bothered the turtle, because it could no longer see the light of the soon or the moon, or the stars.
mircea_popescu: an old turtle had lived for many years in a pond in osaka. in the later days a new concubine introduced a habit of launching ever more bright felinars at night, which bothered its sleep.
mircea_popescu: eventually the turtle from kyoto had enough of this indignity, and securely tying a salad leaf to its carapace, proceeded on the road to osaka.
mircea_popescu: eventually the turtle from osaka had enough of this indignity, and securely tying a salad leaf to its carapace, proceeded on the road to kyoto.
mircea_popescu: after putting step after step for long enough they met at the midpoint of the road between kyoto and osaka.
mircea_popescu: they saluted each other, and soon realised each comes from the other's destination. so they naturally inquired
mircea_popescu: oh, terrible brother, just terrible. how about kyoto ?
mircea_popescu: then, after a moment of reflection, they said their goodbies and parted ways
mircea_popescu: the turtle from osaka, back towards its pond, in osaka
adlai: should've chatted over a beer rather than hurriedly yapping on the road
adlai: salutes have quite low information density
mircea_popescu: adlai there is no guarantee that turtle language includes space for more than "terrible"./
mircea_popescu: you're generally not at liberty to rely on an infinite representational space.
mircea_popescu: (to be perfectly fair the original japanese folk story doesn't have that explicit in there, but hey. posteriority separates and all that)
undata: asciilifeform: depends, are you teaching a new language?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: machines that can do this exist, they are called animals, and generally have their own problems that prompt people to invent less-general machines. << splendidly put.
undata: members of my family grow their own food, and do so without taking up their entire day
undata: asciilifeform: the rest of their day
undata: there's the problem then, not the food
undata: we can make iPhones, but not reduce the work required to produce food?
undata: I'm watching people do it with crude processes
mats_cd03: the work required to produce food _has_ been reduced
undata: surely you see what I'm driving at.
undata: I know people with a greenhouse and a field that eat *very* well, better than I do.
mats_cd03: ~200mn chinese work the fields. ~12mn americans do the same task, afaik.
mircea_popescu: this is the quintesential broken approach. there's "food" as you're talking, there's "food" as he's talking.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but somehow the people who expect to be able to eat without being slaves also bitch at the people fighting for the oil requisite for that arrangement.
mats_cd03: i don't agree with this distinction
undata: "rulers will always want all of my time" ?
mats_cd03: the food i consume has nutrition, and calories, and it sates the appetite. so far, my life expectancy has not changed in any way. how is it nto food?
undata declares himself confused
mats_cd03: we've been over this thing, where "americans don't eat real food"
mircea_popescu: the food your master chooses to dispense to you in exchange for scrip that master has given you n the first place
mats_cd03: sure. true story. doesn't mean "real food" isn't actually available.
undata: mats_cd03: wandering further from the mark
mircea_popescu: is obviously a dependency on the fucking master in question
mircea_popescu: and if putin keeps hammering him in the head all over the middle east, your scrip may be as good as the confederate's.
undata: mircea_popescu: the master imposes the need to be fed by the master
undata: people fed themselves throughout history
mircea_popescu: people, of the common kind, can only be fed by a master.
undata: mircea_popescu: to say what of the people I know who feed themselves?
mircea_popescu: undata that they're momentarily realising gains out of externalised costs that haven't yet caught up with them.
mircea_popescu: once they get lynched by an angry mob you can say what you will,
undata: mircea_popescu: where's the ruler then?
undata: and if he doesn't want them feeding themselves and working hard, what's he doing?
undata: isn't this exactly my point?
mats_cd03: i can't have this discussion strictly framed in metaphors and still understand what you're talking about
undata: mircea_popescu: I am suggesting that the people I'm describing are doing it right
mircea_popescu: that's the point of metaphores, to keep getting punctured.
undata: and that the ruler might be wise to set conditions for their success, not the others
undata: lest we all eat corn byproducts and let our country burn
mircea_popescu: undata surely, everyone who's alive is doing ~it~ right
undata: mircea_popescu: depends on what comes in the next frame
undata: they may just be incredibly shortsighted
mircea_popescu: so yes, i grant that too, that your guys are pretty well above most.
mircea_popescu: but this alone is not nearly the strength of your previous statement.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform since the iris young nitwit was mentioned, here's a q for you : how many maths or generally actual scientists you ever heard of that were full professors at 34 ?
undata acknowledges that a lot of people "doing it right" got smashed to pieces when the USSR collapsed as well
undata: this goes to my earlier statement about good people eating bullets
undata: the US is just... done.
mircea_popescu: actually the reason it can't be fully learnable has more to do with godel than with tits and ass.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1700 @ 0.00073247 = 1.2452 BTC [-]
undata: asciilifeform: today's american phd has the requisite psychology to thrive climbing ~25 years of bureaucracy
undata: soul-crushing meaningless process
undata: the US public school system is a prison system
mircea_popescu: ;;google "in the attempt to make prison more like school, they made school more like prison"
undata: mircea_popescu: the highschool in my home town was apty designed by a prison architect
mircea_popescu: ;;google "under the guise of making prison more like school the reverse is of course accomplished."
undata: asciilifeform: to say nothing of its waste, though
undata: mircea_popescu: please elaborate.
mircea_popescu: if you don't eat a bit of lard, some rat will find it.
mircea_popescu: the proof that there was nothing there to waste in the first place is the simple fact of having been wasted.
undata: by what metrics would you like me to describe the failings of the american system?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but how do you measure the wastefullness of pointlessness ?
mircea_popescu: i suppose in a system without objective all is a waste, which reduces to what i said.
undata: "that which maximizes human growth and survival"
undata: and that's strictly an opinion
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25509 @ 0.00073263 = 18.6887 BTC [+]
jurov: i'd rather like an answer that when current system finally fails due to bitcoin, will this get us rid of only the bad ideas?
undata: mircea_popescu: how is any other goal coherent absent that
undata: asciilifeform: that's not what I said
undata: maximizing biomass may not maximize survival
mircea_popescu: hence the entire "proceed from cause not towards goals" thing.
gribble: Current Blocks: 327911 | Current Difficulty: 3.598564026507623E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 328607 | Next Difficulty In: 696 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 15 hours, 27 minutes, and 19 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 38956321236.2 | Estimated Percent Change: 8.25518
undata: mircea_popescu: then why does every leader impose one?
jurov: i guess the surviving ideas and people will get selected cvasi randomly
jurov: thus the trilema's article is false
jurov: there was pseudoscience before wwiii, there was not much less of it after
jurov: perhaps, depending where you lived
undata: I'd enjoy clarification of the point that there are no goals in politics.
undata: goal implies end state?
assbot: On The Superiority of Monarchy (or, adnotations to Why the Worst Get on Top) pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: specifically, "What fucking plans ? Why does the dictator have to absolutely have some sort of plans, aforethought ? Maybe he’s a dictator in the proper sense, because his group perceived him as worthy. He didn’t go to them, like an obnoxious lawyer spawn, with a list of whatever items are fashionable - promises, intentions, qualities, college degrees - to ask to be made a dictator and thus have the gaping void and
mircea_popescu: ontological fear of nothingness chewing away at his frail identity somehow resolved.x No, maybe they came to him, saying “look Cincinnatus, you are the best among us, and the best by so very far you must be our dictator” and he said “Maybe; we’ll see”. What plans did then Cincinnatus have, exactly ? That all men must assemble on the Camp of Mars ? And if they hadn’t, what exact moral impediment’d have th
jurov: well, chtuhlhu would certainly be "perceived as worthy"
jurov: would he promote rationa thought?
jurov: not by some. by everyone by order. that's definition of dictatorship.
mircea_popescu: jurov not so. the definition of dictatorship is merely "he whose word makes truth"
thestringpuller: jurov: well, chtuhlhu would certainly be "perceived as worthy" << unless someone like Cartman befriends him.
mircea_popescu: cincinnatus says "all men must gather on the camp of mars" and now all men in actual fact must so gather.
assbot: Btcguild shutting down. : Bitcoin
mircea_popescu: (if we're to trust the usual US statistics and general scientific consensus, which is to say comic books)
jurov: "all men must gather on the camp of mars" and now all men in actual fact must so gather. << okay, but to return to the topic, how this advances rational thought?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9144 @ 0.00073349 = 6.707 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: jurov the dictator's a political institution, not a gnoseological tool.
jurov: oh that was an answer to undata
mircea_popescu: hmm can't find it now, but ayway, there's an entire wank niche dedicated to woman-to-cow transformations, woman-dairy farms etc.
mircea_popescu: about as good science as krugman's economics or obama's peace.
assbot: Re: Engineering Envy [was: Re: CL and UML] - Naggum cll archive
undata: mircea_popescu: in reading your article, it seems that one of the disconnects in the above has been that I perceive certain kinds of conflict wasteful which you do not.
mircea_popescu: well, the problem with "wasteful" is you gotta specify more about the situation than you can.
undata: mircea_popescu: being that I'm not the one setting goals for the society
mircea_popescu: has all the spunk that hasn't filled a vagina been wasted ? how about that's not been swallowed ? rubbed on tits ?
undata: in my particular, engineers who rot in the halls of googles and facebooks, I think
mircea_popescu: you don't like the ulterior effects of socialism, but you do like some of the premises, such as "X for all", as in, "a future for all", "a chance for all" etc.
undata: no, I don't. it's not socialism for my family to feed itself
undata: but I can see that I've used some of their terms to describe how I feel about it
mircea_popescu: so does everyone, what, you think kaybosh hungerlice of kenya isn't trying ?
undata: so my family feeds itself because it presently can, which indicates nothing about whether that fact is due to their own action
mircea_popescu: you presently are able to feed yourself, which indicates nothing about whether you OUGHT TO be so able.
undata: I think I'm just arguing for more robust citizens
undata: what is the benefit of weakened citizens?
undata: mircea_popescu: when you get used to masters which withold food, don't you dream of otherwise?
mircea_popescu: anyway, any frustrated desire is as entitled as any other. once it satisfies itself so it's no longer a desire it will have gained its rightful death.
undata: given the task to deliver, does it help the trucker's delivery to have only enough gas to arrive at his destination
undata: and if the man who designates the quota miscalulated, the load is lost
undata: mircea_popescu: and then the truckers get tired of losing loads and we lose generations instead
mircea_popescu: the 2000-2010 generation of usians isn't anymore lost than the 1500-1510 generation of usians
mircea_popescu: who mostly got eaten by wolves or w/e, or the 1000-1010 generation, that didn't even exist.
mircea_popescu: whence this expectation to be important and matter anyway ?
undata: everyone wants what he wants
assbot: Qntra: Nearly a month in | Bingo Blog
undata: I'd rather not matter to anyone.
mircea_popescu: so then what do you care about "wasted" generations whatever that may mean.
undata: lets say there's a comet heading for us
undata: and lets say the guy that knew how to stop it shot himself 10 years ago because he could not find a use
undata: the ruler should be a search function identifying merit and putting it to work
mircea_popescu: listen, you were here earlier when rand was being put down for being verbose, pointlessly so.
undata: above, masturbation implement
mircea_popescu: there's very little economy in your fiction, not just this present comet thing, but the previous thing with the truck. such wasteful abuse of literary means.
mircea_popescu: so, you're asking me to believe that the guy was going to stop the comet with his cock ? or how exactly did he get to be the ONE ?
mircea_popescu: there's a reason i quote shakespeare rather than rand.
BingoBoingo: Comet Stopping Cock might be a decent flick
undata: rulers which don't care about the lives of their underlings eventually burn
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i think the orgasm subtext in "comet" needs moar usage tho.
mircea_popescu: undata all rulers eventually burn. and all underlings, too.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Well a good story needs an antagonist, in this case the Comet Cummer
mircea_popescu: this earth-and-heaven xtianity thing... it really got people enthralled did it.
undata: and no possessions too?
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo why not "the coming of the comet" << I'm thinking a series of comets head towards earth, they were uncharted. Astronauts go to find the source and it's jsut a masturbating space giant. They have to fuck it and make it a pocket pussy so it stops endangering worlds with its seed
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo sounds like a decent "lsd/pot stories" series.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Well... kina how B movies make their bread
thestringpuller: Random and off topic. Pierre_Rochard was telling me about a country whose economy was riddle with Ponzi Schemes to the point real businesses were losing value because the ponzi's outnumbered the real businesses. I think it's Albania
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_schemes_in_Albania Maybe someone can help shed more light as he didn't know what the country was at the time.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller this was actually amply discussed in here, a while back.
undata: mircea_popescu: 'we all die someday' was not what I was saying
undata: what we do before we die is what's relevant
undata: should the ruler not care about the continued breathing of the peasants, the peasants are best off making themselves as useless a burden to him as possible
undata: that's where that antagonism ends up
undata: or... "if you do not make me an offer worth taking, I will work for someone else"
undata: absent the socialist subsidy of failure this works fine
assbot: 2014 Feb 28 08:55:06 <mircea_popescu>diametric: the latest trend is that Mar - Pastebin.com
undata: asciilifeform: there are myriad other producers of the same syrupy garbage
undata: I can walk to one that makes their own in two blocks
undata: the ruler should be setting the conditions for an operating market and then letting it run
undata: and should in that sense is "it is in the interest of the subjects to light themselves on fire otherwise"
undata: rulers die, do they not?
undata: it's the building that remains
undata: what beyond contract inforcement and defense does one want out of a government?
undata: asciilifeform: I find it hard to not use that example to support my point of view
undata: so there should be many small militaries constantly warring?
undata: that's the stupidist thing I've heard today.
undata: sounds like a great way to make militarism the only thing practiced.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3193 @ 0.00073252 = 2.3389 BTC [-]
undata: half the planet irradiated for the glory of the leader
undata: you end up with the best leader and nothing to lead.
adlai: best military* leader
undata: adlai: half in here imagine themselves a mongol as they sit hunched over a keyboard
adlai is more troglodyte than mongol
undata would be headed thataway in a firefly class vessel were it 200yrs later
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13050 @ 0.00073239 = 9.5577 BTC [-] {2}
mats_cd03: this business of wanting is what got us into this mess in the first place
jurov: X-BT goes with altcoin
mats_cd03: letting that kind of talk run its course is how you get socialism. everybody wants, everybody gets.
jurov: just got email it's closing
mats_cd03: assuming world peace is the rightful, desirable end state is kind of silly
jurov: you did not offer it for sale?
BingoBoingo: qntra.net/2014/10/bitreserve-holds-your-bitcoins-as-fiat/ from thestringpuller
jurov: Apocalyptic: too busy outside btc?
Apocalyptic: yeah, that's the main reason, the ATC trading was the only thing that kept me running it lately
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> if there were a 'pepsi' alternative to usg, folks who can make any claim at value would be defecting in droves. << there is, they aren't.
mircea_popescu: perhaps because never has it been the case that value and droves met.
gribble: You rated user Apocalyptic on Fri Feb 14 01:37:20 2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: x-bt.com etc.
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user Apocalyptic has changed from 1 to 2.
mircea_popescu: <undata> half the planet irradiated for the glory of the leader << you confuse warring kingdoms with warring democracies.
mircea_popescu: this is like saying you don't like fishing because you've been in a hurricane once.
Apocalyptic: thank you guys for having given it a shot, was a nice experience
mircea_popescu: <mats_cd03> assuming world peace is the rightful, desirable end state is kind of silly << it's just another way to assume "immutability", because limited intellect aka ars longa, vita brevis.
mircea_popescu: irl, the resilient bridges are not the rigidly immobile ones.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo x-bt qntra article pls ? there's precious few clean closures in the space,
mircea_popescu: and i very much doubt any of the bezzle-powered "entrepreneurs" will ever manage one.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo x-bt qntra article pls ? there's precious few clean closures in the space, << Will do.
atcbot: [PityThePool Hashrate]: 464.54 GH/s [iSpace Pool Hashrate]: 0 TH/s
atcbot: [ATC Diff] Current Diff: 469547.73 Est. Next Diff: 268301.76 in 869 blocks (#48384) Est. % Change: -42.86
mircea_popescu: "Or perhaps they did that stupid human trick that never fails: If you have excess funds, procreate until you no longer have excess funds, then share the funds equally until you all die." << naggum clearly "does not understand how the world works", and what everyone's "rights" are and so on.
mircea_popescu: for the record, that "stupid human trick" is exactly how selection works.
jurov: BingoBoingo: wait i don't see my litecoins yet :D
jurov: hafta resync first
RetroUpriser: ;;everify birdman freenode:#bitcoin-otc:58ca0dddae4daaab73388a8682c74fb02dcf69b079532108f6a11872
gribble: (everify <otp>) -- Verify the latest encrypt-authentication request by providing your decrypted one-time password. If verified, you'll be authenticated for the duration of the bot's or your IRC session on channel (whichever is shorter).
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8200 @ 0.00073458 = 6.0236 BTC [+]
jurov: BingoBoingo: they arrived, i can say x-bt shut down cleanly
jurov: except for some 27 satoshi.. but Apocalyptic can have a ..er.. glass of water for them
jurov: Apocalyptic: *bitcoin* satoshi
jurov: wait, can i buy half of altcoin and withdraw?
assbot: BitBet - Giancarlo Stanton wins NL MVP :: 0.08 B (35%) on Yes, 0.15 B (65%) on No | closed 2 months 1 day ago
mircea_popescu: here's 5 gb worth of randomly idiotic rules nobody cares about, police all that and you may earn 27 satoshi!
gribble: Nick 'BingoBoingo', with hostmask 'BingoBoingo!~BingoBoin@unaffiliated/bingoboingo', is identified as user 'BingoBoingo', with GPG key id 309BB8D7F3251143, key fingerprint ADD7A9A28F85E5EF1F51904F309BB8D7F3251143, and bitcoin address None
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo thanks for pointing that out btw, hadn't been paid yet so salvageable.
assbot: i'm trying to find where i got the resolution source. there were at least two. o - Pastebin.com
BingoBoingo: Well it will be over soon. I don't think after November there will be many post-World Cup sports bets left.
mircea_popescu: just the fucking inanity of it. i have no idea how those imbeciles think they're managing their franchise
mircea_popescu: but i tell you, when you can't tell a mvp from a fake vietnamese boot the whole thing's dead in the water.
BingoBoingo: Still not as fucked as the original submitter's time frame for resolving it... A month before the season ends.
cazalla: chetty: <cazalla> it only went pink once it hit the water, not like it was a stream of red aids coming out//check with wife, this also happens with freshly cleaned toilets sometimes <<< she cleans? this is news to me
mircea_popescu: 'd like a "day" name as a single line between the "home | log | search | bash | stats | wiki" and "prev/next" to be settable with an assbot command
assbot: X-BT Exchange Shutting Down | Qntra.net
ben_vulpes: <mats_cd03> the food i consume has nutrition, and calories, and it sates the appetite. so far, my life expectancy has not changed in any way. << how wouldja know?
mircea_popescu: "through this, my life expectancy has not changed in any way"
gribble: Current Blocks: 327930 | Current Difficulty: 3.598564026507623E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 328607 | Next Difficulty In: 677 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 16 hours, 47 minutes, and 12 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 38947982793.2 | Estimated Percent Change: 8.23201
cazalla: BingoBoingo, added a read more tag to btc guild article
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 336.71, Best ask: 337.87, Bid-ask spread: 1.16000, Last trade: 337.89, 24 hour volume: 7560.53173414, 24 hour low: 335.5, 24 hour high: 347.96, 24 hour vwap: 342.188350829
BingoBoingo: headed off for the weekend, might pop on a few times before returning SUnday/Monday.
assbot: A6 Corporation | CrunchBase
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9250 @ 0.00073512 = 6.7999 BTC [+]
adlai: they should pivot to ASIC fab