ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: many fiat stocks showing 123.47 as price
mircea_popescu: (progressive, as opposed to classic, which doesn't exist because butt still sore)
ben_vulpes: a merry occupation day to ye, ameritards
mircea_popescu: and the funny thing is, they earnestly imagines antyone would want to be their friend.
shinohai: They had to put in their 2 cents!
phf: cnn at the airport are playing "special" on nixon impeachment. they are not even trying anymore
phf: it's a multi-series show that's being played back to back
phf: with helpful pantsuit commentary in between the episodes
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> BingoBoingo: many fiat stocks showing 123.47 as price << Y no submission?
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> eventually provocation will work, trump will 'clintonize', i.e. connect himself with something 'uncontroversially' impeachable. << There's a deadline for provocation to work. 2018 mid term elections
phf: asciilifeform: i periodically come back from the woods and marvel at the going ons
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Because the fork in the GOP will likely be resolved in the primary season, and Pantsuit is set up to take massive losses in Senate.
☟︎ BingoBoingo: GOP has few Senate seats to defend in 2018, Pantsuit has many
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The state legislatures that make those rules mostly lean GOP over pantsuit, and rulemaking is a concern after 2020 census.
BingoBoingo: What kind of glue do you have that resists razor knife?
BingoBoingo: Meanwhile Trump appointees continue to increase as percentage of people arbitrating rules
BingoBoingo: January 2019 Trump will likely be Nixon proof. Pantsuit will have to resort to Kennedy solutions.
☟︎ BingoBoingo: Timeline for Kennedying likely ends January 2021 when it would lead to 4 years of Pence, which is likely worst possible outcome for pantsuit
mod6: cog in the wheel, aha
phf: fwiw there's definitely a sentiment change. it's becoming fashionable to roll eyes at sjws at festivals and be secretly OK with trump.
phf: as the fervor increasing there's a general loss of steam. how many misfires can these people afford?
a111: Logged on 2017-07-04 01:02 asciilifeform: ( calling all kabbalists!111 )
a111: Logged on 2016-10-20 20:40 asciilifeform: 'how many bugs shall we tolerate!?' 'seven!'
mircea_popescu: there's nothing fickler than the sentiments of the crowd. and yes the reversal is underway.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-04 03:05 asciilifeform: eventually provocation will work, trump will 'clintonize', i.e. connect himself with something 'uncontroversially' impeachable.
mircea_popescu: part of the problem and the font of all the "russianb spies" lulz is that a) thjere's nothing else and b) the fucktards can't believe nobody cares.
mircea_popescu: so they're stuck in the loser's spin of trying to find "the realer real one"
a111: Logged on 2017-07-04 03:09 asciilifeform: in other unsurprises, 'Corrupt data that accidentally flowed out of a NASDAQ systems test caused the share prices...'
a111: Logged on 2017-07-04 03:14 asciilifeform: prohibited pr0n is cheaper.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there was ONE instance of dude having his trade unwound. he promptly got pissed off and went and lost his wad on $randomscam.
mircea_popescu: i don't even specifically remember, was years ago. but im sure there was a good reason.
mircea_popescu: trades routinely get unwound. you call the shop, "do you have bananas ?" "yes we do". you come to shop, they don't. "Wtf!" "Someone bougth them!"
mircea_popescu: "oh but this wasn't really a trade" "it was an accepted tender!" "mmkay"
mircea_popescu: there's a space between closure (as an abstract) and settlement (as a practical).
mircea_popescu: people like to think in terms of the former, it's less impedancy, but reality works on lattert
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not even doublespend, they were not allocated. therer's such a thing as nonbinding allcoators.
mircea_popescu: notice that no one goes to the hospital with a "i came here so you make me healthy" contract.
mircea_popescu: there's no such thing as a human-accessible time interval that's not human accessible.
mircea_popescu: at any rate, there's a floor under human abstraction. voltages stabilize after a time. etc.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-04 03:18 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Because the fork in the GOP will likely be resolved in the primary season, and Pantsuit is set up to take massive losses in Senate.
mircea_popescu: when pantsuit.org discovers that it's antiourdemocracy for senate supermajority to take decisions.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-04 03:22 BingoBoingo: January 2019 Trump will likely be Nixon proof. Pantsuit will have to resort to Kennedy solutions.
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2612.22, vol: 13002.43778694 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2503.826, vol: 6281.94379 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2602.5, vol: 18638.3081568 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2691.995072, vol: 12614.50490000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2619.902, vol: 6754.02624087 | Volume-weighted last average: 2615.64317885
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: was otherwise occupied; twas a teep just the teep
hanbot: any spanish speakers here have a decent translation for "match"? to place in a set, not pairing, not equaling, not anything else online dictionaries'd like to synonymize me with.
mircea_popescu: ah im sorry, to match as in a set. conjunto fambly should suit you.
shinohai: !~later tell hanbot Ah sorry I missed your message, I was out at that time cojunto-ing with local girls. ;)
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
jhvh1: shinohai: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2621.86, vol: 11540.22746202 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2537.349, vol: 6658.60169 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2607.0, vol: 18107.17109604 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2668.04853, vol: 8983.97320000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2619.031, vol: 6922.33937901 | Volume-weighted last average: 2613.50135031
phf: i wrote a hilariously bad common lisp version of fhf
phf: ben_vulpes: i'm pretty sure your type annotations are doing nothing useful. cursory look i think only fixnum stuff is taking effect, but that's such a small overhead
phf: i'm pretty sure biggest overhead is in using adjustable arrays, because you lose out on using sbit instead of bit. sbit expects (simple-array bit (*)) and apart from doing basic type check it has very little overhead.
phf: and the other issue with adjustable arrays is that you're doing a lot of expands (and that's what mp's fhf does), you're generating n^2 garbage
phf: (funny thing re sbit vs bit, sbit generates immediate assembly, where's bit, in sbcl, calls out to a function named SB-KERNEL:HAIRY-DATA-VECTOR-REF. nuff said)
☟︎ phf: sbcl is the original "modern"11! lisp. it gives "style warnings" on my code, but completely ignores type errors in ben_vulpes's code (compiling same code in cmucl gives a lot of warnings about the types being all kinds of confused)
phf: yeah, it would've been neat if people carefully improved existing quality system instead of modernizing, alas. i hear wayland also works!!1
phf: yeah, this version is straight spec implementation (in fact if you search for (fhf mp ...) that part should directly correspond to spec wording). only optimization i did was to keep the S reallocations down
phf: right, but that would "break" the spec to code correspondence
phf: part of spec as far as i understand it, that the (fhf mp ...) part is a canonical, but not the only implementation. so yeah you could write optimal version of mp's fhf, but it's not going to speak the same dictionary, and you won't be necessarily able to apply same optimizations to other (fhf ...). (or i guess you can, but require more cleverness than just etc.)
☟︎ phf: i mean, there's a bunch of macros that share state through referencing same symbols. if i were to post this to #lisp they would lynch me
phf: oh, that's actually good point re rewind, that's in the spec "except in the case our position is already 0."
phf: man, dusseldorf airport soundtrack is like the best of the 90s that nobody listens to anymore, but used to back in the day. like they are playing bryan adams's "i do it for you" which i remember serenading to some girl. makes me heart tingle it does.
phf: that's true, and is closer to wording..
phf: i wouldn't call it bitter, at least he didn't think of if* proponents as complete retards.
phf: i wouldn't use it in my own code, but there are occasional cases where it "makes sense", particularly when you're writing potato code
phf: hmm, never mind his later rants on the subject contain a lot more vitriol
phf: but i use it to refer to intentionally or unintentionally naive code. like the kind of stuff you would write in BASIC.
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2017-07-04 13:52 phf: (funny thing re sbit vs bit, sbit generates immediate assembly, where's bit, in sbcl, calls out to a function named SB-KERNEL:HAIRY-DATA-VECTOR-REF. nuff said)
mircea_popescu: truth be told fhf was designed by a coder hater, and it shows. exactly typical ops a sane person would never even contemplate.
mircea_popescu: "enlarge datastruct one bit at a time ? because your mother fed you artichokes whole or why!"
mircea_popescu: "just tell me how large it ends up and stop wasting my time! WHAT THE FUCK IT CAN'T BE KNOWN IN ADVANCE!"
mircea_popescu: phf whereas is not where's, etymologically or otherwise. i dunno if you know that.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform mp-fhf terminates, and in finite mem. of course, other fhfs might not.
mircea_popescu: i am surrounded by looseleaf to the degree girl walked in said "you remind me a lot of mr happy" "whassat ?" "pet hamster i had when i was 5"
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, the reason it has those bojums flows from the atomic ops, not gift from god.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-04 14:15 phf: part of spec as far as i understand it, that the (fhf mp ...) part is a canonical, but not the only implementation. so yeah you could write optimal version of mp's fhf, but it's not going to speak the same dictionary, and you won't be necessarily able to apply same optimizations to other (fhf ...). (or i guess you can, but require more cleverness than just etc.)
mircea_popescu: in fact specified as opposed to farted code has this property, that you write two programs per spec like that. hence "agile" ie "code is the spec" ie "please shoot me" modernity.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-04 03:43 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: mpex afaik never reverted trades either
jurov: dividends are not transactions?
mircea_popescu: well depends what you mean and what you're talking about. some people call their
http "transactions", and the "road ahead is clear" as they say to next propose mpex css ain't good enough to be nasdaq.
mircea_popescu: but the discussion here isn't "naive perception of item x as compared to naive perception of item y". that'll be biased by the direct interaction. the discussion is "industrial item x vs y".
mircea_popescu: if every time a broker advanced cash to a customer you took out nasdaq and shot it, it'd live microseconds each iteration.
jurov: Yet it outlived bitbet.
mircea_popescu: jurov nasdaq solution to bitbet problem is to take kako out and shoot him. that i'm a civilised fellow is not something you can oppose to me.
mircea_popescu: on the contrary, in this context it is my merit and you're welcome to praise.
mircea_popescu: in the sense that if you discuss it at all, all you may say is "mp is so fucking great, he put personal freedom above corporate continuance."
mircea_popescu: yes this is a choice i've made repeatedly and threaten to keep making. it also happens to be fundamental to republican vs you know, imperial outlook.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-09 18:06 mircea_popescu: phf you know it's whereas not where's.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-04 14:12 asciilifeform: one hint -- look at 'screw' as a modular congruence
mircea_popescu: phf what it was that i consistently ; not what it is that i consistently was :D
phf: also articles are optional
mircea_popescu: this is a very fine example, incidentally. it's in my mind right there with the oxford comma ("i had eggs, salmon and biscuits" interpreted as the speaker telling salmon and biscuits as an item that he had eggs) as anglo-antilogic in my head.
mircea_popescu: which is why qntra style says "logical comma always". as opposed to oxfordian.
mircea_popescu: anyway, it is logical to have the error permanent "what it is", and the self-reference tensed "i was". rather than pretend the error has no further substance than its past occurence, whereas the id is eternal and so therefore is.
mircea_popescu: yet in english it's how they do it, and THIS is what they mean when they say the language it speaks will tell you a lot of a people.
mircea_popescu: ie, there is no such thing possible as "a christian english-as-single-language speaker".
a111: Logged on 2017-07-04 14:46 asciilifeform: ( and currently suspect that you can construct one where it doesn't )
a111: Logged on 2017-07-04 14:52 phf: but i use it to refer to intentionally or unintentionally naive code. like the kind of stuff you would write in BASIC.
phf: irishmen came up with that term, it's all about potatoes with those people
mircea_popescu: "the great potato famine'd have been lots worse were it made out of wheat instead"
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-04#1679092 << my current thinking is, the only way to resolve this within a lifetime is to see if a mpfhf cycle could be constructed. if it can, solved, if it provably can't then it is time&space finite, even as a statistical ceiling argument.
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2017-07-04 14:57 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: didja prove ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there are other ways. they work better on the exact type of hash fhf isn't.
mircea_popescu: haven't yet managed to pin down what teh absolute requirement list for a cycle is though.
mircea_popescu: this is a point in practice, but not relevant re the finite-ness.
mircea_popescu: kinda why we're even doing all the prof work on it, see that crumble to dust bit first.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-04 14:09 phf: fhf implementation
http://paste.lisp.org/display/350018, this one just races against ben_vulpes's, i'll see if i can beat go version once i get to building go environment..
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform god damned. check this out : 1. only way to cycle is through the rewind branch. 2. rewind branch only rewinds one, so to cycle must be run through every time. 3. the branch with a rewind always does a S in R screw, and a R flip. for cycle to happen therefore a) message bit must be 0 and b) S and R must be in such a state that screw and bitflip produce same bit in R.
BingoBoingo: "OMG HARD DATES LISTED!!!" Ought to make the Shillbert fail more sweet than the GaVERToominium failures so far
phf: i threw in a handful of type declarations (which eliminated generic-+ calls), but that as expected shaved less than half a second
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no. no. it's there. asciilifeform : "This operation consists of taking the bit count of either S or R, iterating over that value, at each step multiplying the iterator with the current position in M" << screw will always be m-position divisible. |If the bit in R found at the position equal to the remainder of the division of our position in M by the size of R is 0" << bit deciding rewind is ALWAYS touched by th
mircea_popescu: e screw part of that branch. so we need a M/S/R that takes the 1, flips it to 0, so then the rewind flips it back to 1 again and so it couldf cycle.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo they still wanking with bitpython v 3.0 or w/e it is ?
phf: asciilifeform: there's different kinds of optimizations. you can nail down the types and get a complete type signature of your code. i don't think there's any shame in it
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Haven't fed it through pantsuit.txt parser yet, will after sleeping
mircea_popescu: the requirements for cycle : a M/S/R that takes the 1, flips it to 0, so then the rewind flips it back to 1 again and so it could cycle.
mircea_popescu: these requirements can never be satisfied, because the branch in question EXPANDS s, and therefore it will never be the case that the position modulo R of S will be equal to the position modulo R of S+1.
mod6: Good to hear that the lost units came back.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-04 14:09 phf: fhf implementation
http://paste.lisp.org/display/350018, this one just races against ben_vulpes's, i'll see if i can beat go version once i get to building go environment..
mircea_popescu: in other usistani ideas : register "techrite" as a brand. then people can say "he's got the techrite" about your users.