BingoBoingo: For that announcement I imagine Obama wearning Mr. T's gold chains
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo amusingly that'd prolly strengthen the euro
ThickAsThieves: they gave a roadmap for EURUSD parity, and now it's happening
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Not at first. First it strengthens the Dinar, or whatever the fuck ISIS uses. Probably fucking Dogecoin.
assbot: how to smuggle dollars at DuckDuckGo
artifexd: TIL my wife is guilty of "bulk cash smuggling". I wonder if there is a reward.
mircea_popescu: Every year, hundreds of people try to smuggle more than $10,000 across U.S. borders in order to avoid reporting requirements. In fiscal year 2013 alone, ICE HSI special agents arrested over 520 individuals who were attempting to smuggle currency and seized more than $59 million in bulk currency or monetary instruments.
BingoBoingo: I'm pretty sure this is why the ruskies used stamps
mircea_popescu: i mean... "bitcoin, 100x larger than all the ice results in 2013" ?
mircea_popescu: Bulk cash smuggling damages our economy by removing billions of dollars from the commerce of the United States. "
mircea_popescu: they must be thinking of the billion and a half in bills the contractors took over to the taliban in iraq ?
BingoBoingo: I wonder if there is a dollar bill version of fast and furious, where Instead of ATF and guns the treasury just dumped a bunch of money on the cartels
kakobrekla: or the success rate is lower than 5.9%
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.18141999 = 0.9071 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: Boy, 9, goes joy riding in city bus, police say - CNN.com
mircea_popescu: decimation btw, here's a curio : while darwin published in 1956, there's a little book of anon fiction published in 1844, "Vestiges of the Natural History of Creation"
BingoBoingo: I've always assumed the metallic ink on higher denomination US bills was to create X-ray shadows
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7000 @ 0.00080211 = 5.6148 BTC [+]
cazalla: "Digital CC Limited (trading as digitalBTC)(ASX: DCC) (the Company or digitalBTC) is pleased to announce it has leased ~11% of its first generation mining capacity to PeerNova Inc., for an upfront payment of US$460,000."
cazalla: first time i've heard of this peernova mob
cazalla: i only follow it because they're au based
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 750 @ 0.00080131 = 0.601 BTC [-]
assbot: PetaOne Rack – PeerNova
mircea_popescu: this is starting to sound a whole lot like usagi on steroids.
mircea_popescu: "BitVest Digital Mining Corp. selected PeerNova as its strategic hardware supplier after an extensive review process. PeerNova's PetaOne(TM) enterprise class bitcoin mining systems offer the best combination of power, efficiency and cost for BitVest's planned large scale deployment."
assbot: bitvest.co | Cryptocurrency Investments Strategies Made Simple
cazalla: not heard of that one either
mircea_popescu: "PeerNova is leading the innovation in peer to peer applications and platforms for the digital currency and e-commerce markets. Our expertise is in building and deploying world class, high performance hardware and software solutions at the lowest OpEx and CapEx."
cazalla: To schedule a cryptocurrency investment consultation, please email us at info@bitvest.co - sounds good
mircea_popescu: listen cazalla i would say at this point you've found an internet scamring.
cazalla: well, the guy behind digital BTC got done here by the ACCC for mobile games, ringtones a few years back
mircea_popescu: "DigitalBTC has technically been listed on the ASX since its ‘reverse takeover’ and transformation of Macro Energy Limited back in March, but has pursued the extra legitimacy of its own listing since then, which required approval."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10508 @ 0.00080107 = 8.4176 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: this being the halmark of penny stock fraud, the reverse takeover.
cazalla: slap on the wrist type stuff from memory
mircea_popescu: it looks quite scummy on the face, but i personally can';t be arsed to look into it. if you had a blog and the inclination to research you could prolly publish a decent article
mircea_popescu: there's absolutely no way someone who supposedly makes 1ph cabinets also wants to rent mining power.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2650 @ 0.00079389 = 2.1038 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16868 @ 0.00079232 = 13.3649 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9552 @ 0.0007793 = 7.4439 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i just passed along your most recent naggum link to a group of ro kids to great benefit. you've contributed to the "propasirea culturala a neamului"
B007: I trolled here some months ago
B007: also I predicted mc 1000 btc bet :D
B007: 08-03-2014 02:09:00 <B007> mircea_popescu: you should bet 1000 on something on your site
B007: 8 days before you did
mircea_popescu: RagnarDanneskjol you wanna talk to a bunch of kinda derpy ro kids with some linux sysadmin experience ?
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> incidentally, it is shocking, outrageous but also very amusing to see just how copy-pasted the final days us is from the peak of romania. it's almost as if instead of the romanian idiots copying teh superior us businessmen, the reverse happened. << i'd love to hear more about this
assbot: Fun and Joy in Washington, D.C. - Imgur
kakobrekla: strange? the follow up on the led and audio after not caring.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes yeah but so far not so sure how to organise it.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know, the defectors weren't all that happy generally.
ben_vulpes: what inspired the comment in the first place?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2250 @ 0.00076791 = 1.7278 BTC [-]
assbot: Gentoo Portage Overlays - Overlays
justusranvier: Sucks in many way, yet I can no longer use traditional binary distros, and don't have time to go back to Linux From Scratch
diametric: it went downhill after daniel robbins left to go to microsoft.
mircea_popescu: justusranvier actually some of the better pakcages compile clean and fast now
diametric: people started making really bad decisions, specifically by making massive changes to portage that would break systems.
justusranvier: mircea_popescu: Yeah, I actually don't have many compilation/dependency problems any more, but it's not progressing very much as a distribution
diametric: the closest i've come is archlinux.
justusranvier: I wanted them to cater more to developers, and make it even easier to dogfood your own packages
diametric: the AUR system provides PKGBUILD files were are similar to ebuilds.
justusranvier: I want Gentoo to ditch source tarballs entirely in favor of Git. It should be easy for a user to patch the source code of any package they run and have Portage handle merging changes from upstream
mircea_popescu: take asciilifeform's "mirror". well, is it a mirror or a mitmor ? how do i know ?
justusranvier: Your Portage tree should be in Git. If you want KDE packages in your Portage tree, then add the KDE team's repo and merge their branch into yours
mircea_popescu: justusranvier and what else, a fixed point so you can overturn teh earth ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so how many peeps are running "linux because it's safe and gentoo because it's so and so" except they got it off drevil.repo
assbot: Fundaia Ceata — Ceata elibereaz artele i tehnologiile actuale
mircea_popescu: Richard Stallman la Cluj, în turul echipelor locale ale Fundației Ceata
mircea_popescu: Richard Stallman la Vâlcea, în turul echipelor locale ale Fundației Ceata
mircea_popescu: Richard Stallman la Chișinău, în turul echipelor locale ale Fundației Ceata
assbot: Last trade for S.MPOE on MPEX was at 0.00076791 BTC [-]
Apocalyptic: mircea_popescu, some btc were sold for 3200 EUR each
mircea_popescu: anyway, this is all for me. see you all on the other side.
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 470.33, Best ask: 470.99, Bid-ask spread: 0.66000, Last trade: 471.0, 24 hour volume: 4719.96182203, 24 hour low: 466.0, 24 hour high: 483.0, 24 hour vwap: 475.57628363
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22300 @ 0.00077256 = 17.2281 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20100 @ 0.00077136 = 15.5043 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15400 @ 0.00077299 = 11.904 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26270 @ 0.00077028 = 20.2353 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2200 @ 0.0007686 = 1.6909 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28550 @ 0.00076908 = 21.9572 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9729 @ 0.00077312 = 7.5217 BTC [+]
assbot: Those who cannot remember last week are condemned to repeat it | Preston Byrne
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11064 @ 0.00077312 = 8.5538 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2650 @ 0.0007732 = 2.049 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1500 @ 0.00077401 = 1.161 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14957 @ 0.00077401 = 11.5769 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25650 @ 0.0007765 = 19.9172 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3481 @ 0.0007745 = 2.696 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11777 @ 0.00077477 = 9.1245 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: CheckDavid +v failed; L1: 0, L2: 0
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6577 @ 0.00077306 = 5.0844 BTC [-]
CheckDavid: BingoBoingo: I used to be able to voice
CheckDavid: I wanted to ask what you think about secureae.com
gribble: Nick 'CheckDavid', with hostmask 'CheckDavid!uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zpqgextiikcqxjxg', is identified as user 'CheckDavid', with GPG key id None, key fingerprint None, and bitcoin address 1Mhu1uch32kgZstHpJNnbo61soPRXLQrDE
Azelphur: ;;ratingsystem getrating CheckDavid
gribble: This user has not yet been rated. Currently authenticated from hostmask CheckDavid!uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zpqgextiikcqxjxg .
Azelphur: CheckDavid: ^ guess that's why, someone might have unrated you
Azelphur: ;;rate CheckDavid 1 Worked with him for a little while, seems like a nice guy.
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user CheckDavid has been recorded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25900 @ 0.00077414 = 20.0502 BTC [+]
assbot: CheckDavid +v failed; L1: 0, L2: 0
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10950 @ 0.00077709 = 8.5091 BTC [+] {2}
ThickAsThieves: i do think US education is a major culprit (just read the Mike OCD article)
[]bot: Bet placed: 3 BTC for Yes on "BTC Difficulty over 31Bn before October"
http://bitbet.us/bet/1028/ Odds: 92(Y):8(N) by coin, 89(Y):11(N) by weight. Total bet: 79.00227226 BTC. Current weight: 31,634.
ThickAsThieves: recall our conversation about schools beating into our heads "You can be anything if you really want it, President of the US even!"
ThickAsThieves: now we have piles of ads convincing 30somethings to attend University of Phoenix
CheckDavid: But I guess its still not enough to voice?
ThickAsThieves: another interesting phenomenon is US media hammering the concept of "eat fatty foods, not carbs"
assbot: #bitcoin-assets +m pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
ThickAsThieves: started as diet fads like Atkins and Paleo, but now it just feels downright progandist
chetty: is that about carbs or gluten? asciilifeform
RagnarDanneskjol: well, there is something to the fatty propagandizing - brains are mostly fat
assbot: Air Castle blown away on beach (Katamari edit) - YouTube
chetty: I been curious for sure about the anti-gluten propagandising, havent heard the +fat much
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1550 @ 0.00077377 = 1.1993 BTC [-] {2}
ThickAsThieves: in my own estimation, the gluten thing is more of a phenomenon relating to health-enthusiasts fucking up their bodies and either exacerbating gluten intolerance, or misdiagnosing it as the problem, rather than the symptom
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves well, there are some advantages to fat over glucose.
ThickAsThieves: but i'm being a typical symbol-reading, word-menaing-guessing, god-worshipper in that
chetty: perhaps its god by some other names? like money? or earth or
BingoBoingo: The gluten thing is just because some members of the species don't have genetic compatibility with this "agriculture" thing yet...
☟︎ assbot: Dietary fats: Know which types to choose - Mayo Clinic
nubbins`: exacerbating the gluten thing is the immense amount of refined sugars people consume in their bread/baked goods
nubbins`: oh, you had three honey croissants for breakfast? no fucking wonder you feel like shit
chetty: sweetened croissants should be illegal
chetty: ugh, I can not eat them, and they are the standard breakfast here :(
nubbins`: i was reading an article recently about gluten actually
nubbins`: talked about these things called FODMAPS
nubbins`: "Instead, as RCS reported last week, FODMAPS are a far more likely cause of the gastrointestinal problems attributed to gluten intolerance."
nubbins`: "Coincidentally, some of the largest dietary sources of FODMAPs — specifically bread products — are removed when adopting a gluten-free diet"
nubbins`: protip: Budweiser beer is the only major-label brand available in Canada that does not contain gluten
chetty: I can't believe anybody still listens to the food police
nubbins`: i know several people who actually have celiac disease
nubbins`: if you don't have to ask "what brand of ketchup is this?" at the restaurant, you're not celiac
chetty: well thats different, its the nuts that dont have any actual reason ..
nubbins`: picking the croutons out of their salads
chetty: and then of course ask why celiac is much more common now than 50 years ago ..
nubbins`: shit modern diets, better detection? 8)
chetty: I saw a thing where they tested blood stored 50 years ago so its not better detection
nubbins`: lower standards for medical degrees ;D
nubbins`: honestly, i find it baffling the type of stuff people shove into their mouths
nubbins`: new roommate, younger fella. the only food he has in the house right now is pizza pops
chetty: I am NOT gonna ask wtf that is
nubbins`: oh, sorry, as i'm reading up on them, i realize it's canadian only
nubbins`: it's a pillsbury-brand pizza pocket
nubbins`: lotsa sodium benzoate, phenylalanine, all that good shit
nubbins`: the older i get, the more confused i get about humans and their determination to poison their bodies and the world around them as rapidly as possible
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: phenylalanine in its levorotary form is actually nutritionally essential
chetty: were are all born with original sin :P
nubbins`: chetty: i was raised catholic, no need to tell me ;D
assbot: FODMAP - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
nubbins`: srsly, read the first paragraph of that FODMAPS article
xmj: ThickAsThieves: there are -some- rare health benefits to smoking.
nubbins`: and tell me if a slice of fuckin bread is the problem these people are having
chetty: I quit listening to the food police way back when they said grilled meat causes cancer
nubbins`: was interested to know galactose was a FODMAP
nubbins`: pascale gave herself lactose intolerance from binge cheese eating :/
nubbins`: it's where lactose comes from :0
nubbins`: and galactus, destroyer of worlds
nubbins`: she's taken to buying lactose-free cheese
ThickAsThieves: this conversation was so much more enjoyable without diablod3
nubbins`: they mix in the enzymes that digest latose during the manufacturing process
chetty: manufacturing cheese .... that just sounds wrong
nubbins`: "Since lactose occurs mostly in milk, in most mammals, the production of lactase gradually decreases with maturity due to a lack of constant consumption."
nubbins`: ^ fodder for the "humans weren't meant to eat dairy" crowd
gribble: Error: I am not seeing this user on IRC. If you want information about a registered gpg user, try the 'gpg info' command instead.
jurov: ;;gpg info smickles
gribble: User 'smickles', with keyid EA62D7CEB2450C3F, fingerprint 96ACCA7C3B09EC61B0A6D7F9EA62D7CEB2450C3F, and bitcoin address 12NjnZTVeTJ3g5C7BqfS2aQ2rLkmwiqVz6, registered on Mon Jun 20 15:24:35 2011, last authed on Mon Jun 9 16:01:44 2014.
http://b-otc.com/vg?nick=smickles . Currently not authenticated.
assbot: The perfect pitch pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
jurov: nanotube: ^^ smickles says he did auth
mircea_popescu: and of course anyone who likes to read, but the four are actually involved :D
assbot: Dads at One Direction concerts - Imgur
nubbins`: it seems like whenever i visit trilema in chrome incognito mode, it resets my credits cookie
jurov: smickles refuses to auth in chan - warning, it's an impostor!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 10000 @ 0.00005483 = 0.5483 BTC [+] {3}
nubbins`: er well, i mean when i exit incognito mode and use a regular browser window again
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 10000 @ 0.00005488 = 0.5488 BTC [+]
nubbins`: i guess the incognito tab doesn't give up the existing cookie, site can't find it, sends one over... but i'm surprised that'd overwrite the existing cookie
mircea_popescu: there's probably some attack avenue against the incognito mode through this.
nubbins`: anything unusual about how trilema sets/fetches cookies?
RagnarDanneskjol: mircea_popescu - fascinating as always you human being!. think I'll need to read that twice at least and start learning some Rom
nanotube: jurov: if he authed, then left the channel, he gets unauthed.
mircea_popescu: nanotube meanwhile it turns out someone was impostoring
jurov: just pasted me fake gribble output and insisted "this is proof im authed"
gribble: #21372 Sun Aug 31 23:42:26 2014 nubbins` SELL 1.0 'What is Bitcoin?' silkscreened art print @ 45 USD (18x24", 5-color silkscreen on white Cougar acid-free paper, limited edition of 50 (only 8 left), shipping week of August 31,
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=756955.0) nubbins`: ^ actually only 3 left now; hoping to get all outstanding packages mailed today
nubbins`: meantime, what sorta rates do your uni kids offer? i've been doing a bitta research myself, seems $1/poster (plus printing) is average for traditional postering crews in large cities
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29800 @ 0.00077245 = 23.019 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 9725 @ 0.00005488 = 0.5337 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24840 @ 0.000778 = 19.3255 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2019 @ 0.00077869 = 1.5722 BTC [+]
assbot: The perfect pitch pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10194 @ 0.00077173 = 7.867 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2918 @ 0.00077071 = 2.2489 BTC [-]
assbot: Bank clients of Middle Eastern descent want answers on closed accounts - LA Times
BingoBoingo: I didn’t say that, did I ? << Amazing how saving something makes everyone think you favor it.
atcbot: Time Since Last ATC Block: 0 hour(s), 18 minutes
nubbins`: i was walking through a parking lot last night and as i passed this tracksuit-wearing guy, he shouts "GO FUCK YOURSELF, YA SLUT" at his phone and then starts walking really closely behind me
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20720 @ 0.00077051 = 15.965 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: PayPal Voices - YouTube
Duffer1: if you play it backwards it says "kill your family"
kakobrekla: and if you modulate it, you get "i am the great cornholio"
ThickAsThieves: get your D.BPAY while you can, before PayPal announces buyout!
nubbins`: the enunciation is a little bit weird around that part
nubbins`: yeah, i can't think of anything else it'd be either
assbot: Your actions are useless.
nubbins`: ;;google we don't believe in anything
assbot: The Big Lebowski - Parking / Nihilists scene - YouTube
nubbins`: also: you can rent full movies on youtube now? wat?
assbot: The Big Lebowski - YouTube
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] [PAID] 7.04942644 BTC to 1`149`988 shares, 613 satoshi per share
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9250 @ 0.00077294 = 7.1497 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 1.40915124 BTC to 15`372 shares, 9167 satoshi per share
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 470.74, Best ask: 470.75, Bid-ask spread: 0.01000, Last trade: 470.74, 24 hour volume: 10125.52697634, 24 hour low: 456.3, 24 hour high: 480.99, 24 hour vwap: 467.950837666
atcbot: [ATC Diff] Current Diff: 1878190.93 Est. Next Diff: 276459.33 in 1344 blocks (#46368) Est. % Change: -85.28
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 820 @ 0.00062192 = 0.51 BTC [-] {8}
assbot: More needs to be done to prevent moose collisions: fire chief - Newfoundland & Labrador - CBC News
rithm: ;;later tell mircea_popescu y u disturb my slumber
assbot: [HAVELOCK:HIF] 1D: 0.00010290 / 0.0001029 / 0.00010290 (15 shares, 0.00154350 BTC), 7D: 0.00006400 / 8.524E-5 / 0.00010290 (1800 shares, 0.15343332 BTC), 30D: 0.00004757 / 6.809E-5 / 0.00010290 (16212 shares, 1.10386301 BTC)
nubbins`: punkman: do you want your poster rolled or flat-packed?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25400 @ 0.00077239 = 19.6187 BTC [-]
nubbins`: we were aiming for them to be in your hands within 3 weeks of payment, so ~09/20-ish
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23300 @ 0.0007723 = 17.9946 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7950 @ 0.00077144 = 6.1329 BTC [-]
nubbins`: fun fact, it's actually running through a coinbr acct
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12900 @ 0.00077118 = 9.9482 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6536 @ 0.00077112 = 5.04 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4650 @ 0.00076889 = 3.5753 BTC [-] {2}
nubbins`: hey, at least their HIF expenses are right on par
nubbins`: income is off by orders of magnitude, but you can't have it all
xmj: do you guys have an intro doc for working with gribble and assbot ?
kakobrekla: prolly needs some updating but most is true
xmj: im trying to nag the guy behind bettingblocks.com to join us
xmj: and he'll need that howto :-)
assbot: first_steps_in_bitcoin-assets [bitcoin assets wiki]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28574 @ 0.0007726 = 22.0763 BTC [+] {2}
xmj: everyone, rangerk. rangerk, everyone. ;-)
Rangerk: goo.gl/7hDBxm Bet on the miners of future bitcoin blocks.
xmj: fluffypony: Rangerk would be the one behind bettingblocks.com
Rangerk: Already > 0.1 Btc on block #319777 :)
Rangerk: betting closes in 4.5 hours
Rangerk: Feedback is very welcome. We just launched.
Rangerk: xmj -- tell me about bitcoin assets plz.
xmj: Rangerk: ben_vulpes introduced me to this one given similar interests
Rangerk: Seems mircea_popescu is active on your blog. :)
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 469.79, vol: 14485.98789274 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 471.646, vol: 5877.9332 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 472.01, vol: 16021.46251536 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 475.247718, vol: 14510.01560000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 488.76711, vol: 41.88066936 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 482.55159, vol: 81.70229466 | Volume-weighted last average: 472.289189203
assbot: Reddit is a failed state | The Verge
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11321 @ 0.00076906 = 8.7065 BTC [-] {2}
punkman: Rangerk, website was a bit unclear, if block ends up in Other, do I lose?
jurov: If the miner hasn't been determined by the above methods, we roll the prize money over into a future race as a cherry bonus.
jurov: • What happens if the miner is known, but wasn't one of the betting options?
jurov: Same thing. We roll the prize money over into a future race as a cherry bonus.
mircea_popescu: i mean what's the advantage to rolling this dice as opposed to roling a proper, provably fair dice ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26300 @ 0.00077015 = 20.2549 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: CEO Yishan Wong finally addressed the controversy on Saturday by releasing a remarkably clueless manifesto. Reddit, he wrote, is "not just a company running a website where one can post links and discuss them, but the government of a new type of community." So, then, what type of government is Reddit? It's the kind any reasonable person would want to overthrow
jurov: lol how would the miners collude? if they could they already would...
mircea_popescu: course the verge is then taking it exactly the opposite way, but hey.
punkman: miner can bet after he finds the block, no?
mircea_popescu: jurov you realise this is purely declaratory ? i can publish blocks on any ip i want.
jurov: but it does not use IPs
mircea_popescu: so here, i found a block, you publish it and we split the pot.
jurov: miner can sign the block with his signature
jurov: it's not dependent on who publishes it
punkman: mircea_popescu: yeah but why wouldn't the miner bet on himself
mircea_popescu: because the logical outcome is for all pool ops to contriburte some btc, all make the same bet on the same one guy
mircea_popescu: but whether this attack is practical or not, or even theoretically feasible :
mircea_popescu: what is the advantage of a reimplementation of a dubious solution to a solved problem ?
jurov: if they can collude about mutually signing blocks, they can collude over much worse things
jurov: okay, but since operator is not affected it's not a worry for him
jurov: like, the same can be said about bitbet's difficulty bets
jurov: and you don't give a fuck
jurov: miners can collude for difficulty bet to come out a certai way
mircea_popescu: but then the difficulty would actually have to be that.
mircea_popescu: there's a difference between purely declaratory statements and actually measurable objective reality.
jurov: also, is there any miner to explain - is the signature part of work given to minions or it can be slapped on afterwards?
jurov: apparently the pool is assigned using newly mined coins' address
jurov: which tx is part of merkle root
jurov: and thus hardwired once block is found
jurov: they would have to collude to divert newly minted coins to specific address beforehand
jurov: and everyone would see that
jurov: Rangerk you have no comment?
mircea_popescu: jurov if you can merge-mine for different chains, you can equally well merge-mine for alternative root addresses.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2948 @ 0.00055069 = 1.6234 BTC [-] {25}
jurov: i don't get this. changing "root" address will help how?
assbot: MasterCard Rolls Out Orwellian National ID Card -
jurov: still we're at point some OCD miner notices he's getting from ghash.io work with root address destined for some other pool
mircea_popescu: chetty lol is this the us dept solution to nigerian scammers ?
jurov: so, i assert it is not "purely declaratory" but actual work the miners have to chew on
jurov: but.. i'm not miner and maybe i;m mistaken. that there is none in this channel makes me a bit sad.
chetty: miners are all on a beach somewhere
jurov: no theyre in closet
X-Rob: mircea_popescu: Indeed I am
X-Rob: Ah. BettingBlocks.com?
mircea_popescu: the contention is whether "Who found a block" has any substance to it past "we say so"
X-Rob: mircea_popescu: Well, that's an interesting question. Several pools mine to an explicitly well known address.
X-Rob: so you can look at the block and know that, 100%, p2pool mined that block, for example
mircea_popescu: other than making people with a soft understanding of the protocol make wrong assumptions
X-Rob: However. There are a large number of pools where you can only guess. And 'because I say so' is about as much certainty as you're going to get.
X-Rob: mircea_popescu: Well, p2pool is a specific case, and I probably shouldn't have used it, because that's one of the ones you /can/ be 100% certain about.
X-Rob: but that's only 1%-ish of the network
X-Rob: so, let's disregard that
X-Rob: and say.. eligius.
X-Rob: There are two things that you can 'know' about a block. The destination of its mined coins, and the coinbase.
X-Rob: Both of those together can give you a good indication of who mined the block. If the destination of the coins is to a known pool address, then that pool ended up with the coins.
mircea_popescu: but the fact that the pool ended up with the coins is no sort of prof the pool mined the block.
X-Rob: Wether or not they MINED the coins is a different question, but I can't see any advantage in pool C mining coins for pool B
mircea_popescu: it's prima facie evidence, and absent any actual economic incentive to lie it may stand as acceptable "proof"
mircea_popescu: given actual economic incentive to lie however, it's worthless.
BingoBoingo: Well, depends on how big the pot on the who mines block X bet gets
mircea_popescu: X-Rob well the advantage would be that they win a bet, get more btc.
X-Rob: This would only be an issue in a closed pool, however.
X-Rob: Why would I hash privately and mine at pool C, whjen I can just hash at pool B to start with?
atcbot: No data returned from CoinMiner.net
atcbot: [PityThePool Hashrate]: 830.74 GH/s [iSpace Pool Hashrate]: 1.44 TH/s
atcbot: [ATC Diff] Current Diff: 1878190.93 Est. Next Diff: 276948.13 in 1338 blocks (#46368) Est. % Change: -85.25
X-Rob: I'll earn my PPLNS, plus I'll win the bet.
mircea_popescu: and spare me with the "miners will know", there have been three times in history, including today and recently, pools which split their rewards across to pretend like they don't have 50% of the hash rate
atcbot: [X-BT] Bid: 205 Ask: 221 Last Price: 221 24h-Vol: 2k High: 221 Low: 221 VWAP: 221
atcbot: 8k@260 2k@245 32k@221 | 12k@205 85k@198 6k@194
assbot: Enigmail / Forum / Enigmail Support:WARNING: Enigmail 1.7 *completely* *broken*
punkman: you were gonna teach them Enigmail? Fuck you.
BingoBoingo: Enigmail used to just work, but I dun trust the new "Ease of Use" update.
X-Rob: My idea is, if I had bet on pool B mining block, and I controlled access to hardware that would bias pool B to mine the block, why wouldn't I just mine at pool B? I would win the bet -and- I would earn whatever percentage of the block the hardware earned, which would probably be more than 25% of the block reward.
X-Rob: But, let's assume that the bet is massive. Say, a million USD.
mircea_popescu: <punkman> you were gonna teach them Enigmail? Fuck you. <<< word.
X-Rob: A sum large enough to tempt even the most honest of pool operators.
mircea_popescu: X-Rob because you're not you. you're the pool op, who has to make a buck, and who is friends with the other pool ops.
X-Rob: There would be several options. The simplest would be to /still/ mine at Pool B with the hashrate of the other pools
X-Rob: But, woe, your hashrate didn't mine that block. p2pool got it.
X-Rob: You still have a massive percentage of the hashrate of the entire btc network.
X-Rob: Time to orphan blocks.
X-Rob: tl;dr: It's possible, but unlikely for less than say 50 * block reward
mircea_popescu: unless the method we describe in theory is actually implementable cheaper than we estimate, of course.
X-Rob: Everyone's a whore. It's just the price that varies.
X-Rob: I saw an amusing comment on reddit yesterday, on a photo of someone climbing a massive radio tower. They said 'You couldn't pay me enough to do that', and someone responded with '72.6 billion dollars. Per hour'.
X-Rob: So. Yes. Turns out you COULD pay him enough to do that.
X-Rob: But if I was to be offered say... 10* block reward to get block 1234 mined by pool B, I'd probably take that bet.
BingoBoingo: I think the price for a lot of pool ops would be 25.01 to 25.03 BTC
jurov: how many other pools you'd need to collude?
mircea_popescu: betting is an odds game. if you win 1% more than you lose, but you can rely on that 1%, you may cycle thousands of btc for a profit that well exceeds say coinbase's
mircea_popescu: so #eulora just succeeded in an infrastructure upgrade, taking crystal space from 38 something to 40 something. this is a major tech victory.
assbot: Jabir Project | Jabir Technologies Official Blog
mircea_popescu: yup. so little kiosk downstairs has them, two dozen for 10 pesos.
X-Rob: BingoBoingo: The issue is not having the pool owner say 'Yes, I found block 1234', it's other people going 'Uh, actually, no, I found block 1234, here, it's addressed to me, here's me signing a transaction'
X-Rob: So you'd need to ACTUALLY have the pool find a block, or, as I said earlier, have pool C find the block for pool B, but that's economically foolish.
BingoBoingo: X-Rob: Right, but you have to realize how much a casino can came at 1 or 2 percent house edge over time.
X-Rob: BingoBoingo: I'm talking more about the technical issues of claiming a block
X-Rob: And lying about who found it.
jurov: i understood mp's situation as some pool owners mining together so that one of them will claim the blocks, and betting accordingly
BingoBoingo: X-Rob: Right, but if betting we are talking about a set of any particular blocks.
jurov: then, house will actually profit from the volume
X-Rob: jurov: That's... quite likely.
jurov: only the other bettors may have a problem
BingoBoingo: Both the house and pool operators could profit
BingoBoingo: This is a people problem and a trust problem.
jurov: the question is, can/will miners detect something untoward here?
X-Rob: Can they? Possibly. Will they? Amazingly unlikely.
X-Rob: There is a stratum command 'gettransactions'
X-Rob: that your miner can use to ask for the list of transactions you're mining against, and check them against the merkle hash
X-Rob: However: It's only supported by eligius, as every other pool hates it.
X-Rob: And no-one has actually written anything useful for it.
BingoBoingo: X-Rob: Is this the Get block template thing?
X-Rob: GetBlockTemplate is /better/, and you have more control over it, as a miner, but honestly, statistically, no-one cares.
X-Rob: BingoBoingo: GBT is another protocol.
mircea_popescu: X-Rob and then, the "community" derps all about how bad it is that they're getting squeezed out by the large farms.
X-Rob: mircea_popescu: the problem is, it's not that people don't care, is that' they don't want to learn. They go 'magic internet money', and that's pretty much it.
X-Rob: 'I'm going to buy 10 S3's and set them up!'
assbot: The Whet | a place for appetites
BingoBoingo: Only a bot in the way MP routinely turns us all into bots
jurov: i don't think bot can write this
jurov: ;;smell thestringpuller
gribble: Error: "smell" is not a valid command.
X-Rob: +1 for futurama quote, thestringpuller
assbot: Viata grea a blogerului incepator pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
thestringpuller: good news everyone I have found a way to smell people on the internet
X-Rob: So, taking a step back, and answering the big question 'what is stopping pool owners colluding to ensure pool B mines block 1234?' -- The answer is 'nothing'. And to expand on that, 'Nothing, and it's unlikely that someone would even notice, as long as the miners keep getting their pennies'
mircea_popescu: ty. ever been expert witness in legal proceedings before ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23650 @ 0.00076983 = 18.2065 BTC [-] {2}
X-Rob: Yeah, twice. I used to work in InfoSec at Cisco.au
gribble: You have not yet rated user X-Rob
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 2 for user X-Rob has been recorded.
mircea_popescu: There was a young girl of Natchez who chanced to be born with two snatches.Now and again she'd say "Shit! I'd so give either tit for a man with equipment that matches."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2876 @ 0.00077294 = 2.223 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6314 @ 0.00077359 = 4.8844 BTC [+]
X-Rob: BingoBoingo: Thanks, but I'm actually 'xrobau' on gribble 8-)
gribble: Nick 'X-Rob', with hostmask 'X-Rob!sid14615@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sithgwmwidmkkdgh', is not identified.
gribble: CAUTION: irc nick differs from otc registered nick. Nick 'X-Rob', with hostmask 'X-Rob!sid14615@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sithgwmwidmkkdgh', is identified as user 'xrobau', with GPG key id None, key fingerprint None, and bitcoin address 1F1pPNy6X86rUSKLqZAdsa7dSMoRy4KobG
gribble: Successfully removed your rating for X-Rob.
gribble: You rated user xrobau on Sun Aug 17 20:38:19 2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: Going to point his hash, issues corrections.
assbot: Bitcoin open source implementation of P2P currency - P2P Foundation
mircea_popescu: "Thank you for this clarification Mr. Nakamoto. It has been an honor to be labeled by my friends as "Satoshi's Drunk Uncle" and it's a moniker I'll wear proudly until the day I retire from Crypto. The Goldcoin (GLD) developers truly admire your work and strive to continue improving upon its design as a tribute to your unparallelled genius. Your admirer and relative in spirit, MicroGuy."
☟︎☟︎☟︎ mircea_popescu: With so many interested persons checking in here, I believe this would be a good time to again share Chris Cook's brief, simple and correct summation of the problem with bitcoin, from
http://blablabla mircea_popescu: "we've got nothing but our desire to matter in spite of the void we stand for. and there's A LOT of us."
RagnarDanneskjol: well, I was derpish enough to solicit him for recruitment. so I'm not much better than those creeps. I did get some very interesting encrypted respnses tho
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1878 @ 0.00077359 = 1.4528 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: have dev spend a week checking out and streamlining trilema code, obtain clear results, various bottlenecks resolved, lots of optimisation that should result in about 30-40% less load.
mircea_popescu: watch the load on the server excitedly as it increase slightly over a week or two as a result.
gribble: Current Blocks: 319757 | Current Difficulty: 2.7428630902257874E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 320543 | Next Difficulty In: 786 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 5 days, 4 hours, 6 minutes, and 18 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 29374054561.2 | Estimated Percent Change: 7.09268
assbot: Theo de Raadt (ruBSD 2013) - YouTube
assbot: satoshin@gmx.com is compromised
BingoBoingo: And this is why the "killer app" for GPG is signatures
assbot: Bitcoin | SourceForge.net
BingoBoingo: I'll take it this implies Hal prolly was Satoshi after all.
assbot: Henning Brauer (ruBSD 2013) - YouTube
gribble: The expected generation output, at 1000000.0 Mhps, given difficulty of 27428630902.3, is 0.0183350936553 BTC per day and 0.000763962235639 BTC per hour.
gribble: The expected generation output, at 1000.0 Mhps, given difficulty of 27428630902.3, is 1.83350936553e-05 BTC per day and 7.63962235639e-07 BTC per hour.
gribble: The expected generation output, at 10000.0 Mhps, given difficulty of 27428630902.3, is 0.000183350936553 BTC per day and 7.63962235639e-06 BTC per hour.
gribble: Error: "tickler" is not a valid command.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> so #eulora just succeeded in an infrastructure upgrade, taking crystal space from 38 something to 40 something. this is a major tech victory. << nice!!
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell jborkl No words outside of the metalanguage can accurately describe how much I want to de-shit your blog's look
BingoBoingo: Also the satoshi email compromise in a wild speculative hypothesis hopefully is the death knell for any last gasps of third party authority on the matter of identity
assbot: Bitcoin / Mailing Lists
BingoBoingo: Oh, Satoshi hack day seems like such a splendid day