log☇︎
521600+ entries in 0.47s
asciilifeform: i confess that i can't bring myself to run the thing that eats infinite memory, any more
mod6: i'll check back in tomorrow.
mod6: let me know how it goes. my full-sync test with the static bin is up to height=273236 currently.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: They tend to do that. Amazing though on the other side how over time it takes increasing enticements to get them trapped in the first place.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i drove the hog to the forest & turned it loose there. found it interesting how the beast had to be shaken out of the trap, wouldn't simply leave on its own
asciilifeform hasn't tested yet
asciilifeform: can we get scoopbot on the therealbitcoin list ?
[]bot: Bet placed: 10 BTC for No on "The Winkdex: BTC $5000 or more in 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1104/ Odds: 12(Y):88(N) by coin, 12(Y):88(N) by weight. Total bet: 83.1718 BTC. Current weight: 84,321.
BingoBoingo: Granted it normally takes the better part of a salad to make the cage traps enticing to groundhogs
BingoBoingo: Strictly catch and release though.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> it bloodied its nose against the cage for 20 min. or so, then gave up << They tend to do that. Catch a good number with bad intentions towards the garden that way.
mircea_popescu: well anyway, see y'all tomorro
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2015 22:36:47; jurov: i'm trying to make do under some constraints, which i explained several time here
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2015#1043399 << eh dun worry, tis not about you. ☝︎
decimation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aE1alBZ-qXI < there's a whole youtube genre of X vs. Y animal
asciilifeform: it bloodied its nose against the cage for 20 min. or so, then gave up
asciilifeform: i once caught a groundhog (marmota monax) in a zoological (cage) trap
asciilifeform: fox is famous for just this
asciilifeform: fight the glass to the death - or 'submit' to it as to a 'commanding officer'
mircea_popescu: i once found a fox leg in a bear trap.
asciilifeform: incidentally, i'm rather curious re: how a social animal (rat, wolf) would do in the bottle
mircea_popescu: it's basically a sort of windows nt, to replace windows 3.1. look, flashier plumage and mating dances!
mircea_popescu: birds are really closer to insects than mammals.
asciilifeform: (he was trying to get -in-, for no apparent reason, rather than escape a jar)
asciilifeform: i'm quite unconvinced that the bird did
mircea_popescu: he doesn't understand the implementation details. but the situation, he understands just fine.
asciilifeform: mouse understands glass better than the bird (recall the bird film i posted? also persistent beast, also against glass!)
mircea_popescu: that's the thing. he does, more so than bill gates.
asciilifeform: in that he doesn't have anything like an accurate internal model of his situation, in the bottle
mircea_popescu: it's about not spending your time writing fiction under the pretense of "thinking". the mouse excels at this.
asciilifeform: the mouse thing is really about the virtues of not-thinking, no ?
asciilifeform: sure there is. an ant can bite in milliseconds.
mircea_popescu: there's no more sense to be had.
mircea_popescu: the mouse in the bottle is a superlative of sense.
asciilifeform not convinced that the hoodlums have more 'sense' than the mouse in the bottle
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well, us had a much better view of the soviets than the soviets, and vice-versa.
mircea_popescu: (some of the latter get it, but rare is that bird).
mircea_popescu: the hoodlums trying to be drug lords in detroit have a lot more sense in this matter than the "business majors" coming out of harvard.
mircea_popescu: and that is, joining the wot early, and helping set the world on fire. it. strictly it. ☟︎
asciilifeform: this is exactly how sov. textbooks described stock markets!
mircea_popescu: but this is conservation. one does not acquire wealth except one single way
mircea_popescu: otherwise, there are some classes of optimization problems ~once you're already rich~.
mircea_popescu: if you are one of the people buying belgian rubber concessions on the stock exchanges, you make money. if you're in africa, you make quick with the hands and feet. ☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: making money is a purely ~political~ function. if you are among the favoured elite of the respublica veneta, you then may invest in the ships, and make a profit. if not, not. ☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: what - in the actual world people inhabit - *is* a function of it?
mircea_popescu: making money is not a function of one's hard work and dilligence in the schoolhouse sense.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2015#1043343 << anyway, this is what triggered the discussion, and to move on to more practical considerations : ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2015 22:15:35; asciilifeform: you would have done better than 'perfect info' bot << impossible by definition
mircea_popescu: well... chaitin and torkel should be refered together
asciilifeform: in the general case.
asciilifeform did carefully specify that the 'ideal play' is not actually findable
mircea_popescu: looky here : for as long as you don't aim to use the "shortest program" thing for the purpose of attacking my statement, it is ok.
asciilifeform: for the original line of reasoning, see chaitin.
mircea_popescu: only if they don't include it. once you've included it... you've made it general.
asciilifeform: for trivial example, the shortest program which does nothing at all is ''.
mircea_popescu: but this is the general case.
asciilifeform: is only non-provable in the general case
mircea_popescu: far be it from me to diss fiction - the creation of "proofs" we know from the outset to be false and then their taking apart to examine where they stole our eyes is exactly shakespeare's trade.
mircea_popescu: the mere fact that you have such proof is sufficient proof that it is wrong.
mircea_popescu: for as long as the proof is wrong, yes, it provably exists.
mircea_popescu: what is the correct code gcc approximates as it churns on cygwin ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if waste of time, then what is the correct answer that machine like 'scalpl' is actually approximating when it grinds ?
mircea_popescu: but otherwise, utter waste of time.
mircea_popescu: at its core, the "optimal retrospective investment" problem is a nude and rude proposition to replace the action imperative ("mouse must escape or die in the act of trying") with an imaginary junk. ("it could have been"). this is not substantially different from what the usg does when it invents a new name for the homeless and pretends to have "resolved the problem".
asciilifeform: the 'purpose' thing is just a demented lens for viewing anything
mircea_popescu: take this with a grain of salt, but here it is :
asciilifeform: does steam 'mean to' burst a boiler with plugged valve ?
mircea_popescu: because he thinks he should have ?
mircea_popescu: is he alive because he... means to ?
mircea_popescu: now look at it from the fallacious "purpose" perspective.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but this is from cause.
asciilifeform: at all times
asciilifeform: the mouse is only really alive because he tries to go through the glass bottle
mircea_popescu: the time direction thing never stopped anyone from thinking "hey, i could have done better!" or be bitter about how things turned out etc.
mircea_popescu: like, the complexity problem guarantees no government will ever succeed. yet who's deterred from "empirebuilding".
mircea_popescu: in any event, all human folly is based on the failure to come to terms and trying to go through the wall.
adlai: When we differ, Charlie usually ends the conversation by saying: “Warren,
mircea_popescu: another is the complexity problem. the simple fact that once the father has said "i know shit", if he opens his mouth enough to say as little as some basic math, he's now wrong.
mircea_popescu: there are a number of hard rules of the world we inhabit, that children take some time to internalize. one is, of course, "move backwards through time" thing. what adolescent did not ponder this, wish it, etc.
asciilifeform read time machine stories as a kid just like everybody else
mircea_popescu: to put this to intuition : suppose in the alt-universe where your microscopic trade happened, another trader happened to see it and panic.
mircea_popescu: the moment you start doin this sort of thing it no longer behaves thusly.
mircea_popescu: but you're proposing to do exactly that.
mircea_popescu: yes, it does, provided you don't take it out of there.
asciilifeform can see where mircea_popescu is going - 'no clockwork universe' - but a trading engine in sufficiently small time span does behave rather like a clockwork universe
mircea_popescu: '(what bits would you send back in time to time T1), if you could, from time T2, (to maximize profit from investing C coin)'
mircea_popescu: nope. you use in one phase symbols that don't exist of the other.
asciilifeform: say we limit the length of the string
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this isn't a definition tho.
mircea_popescu: hm. it was discussed but i think long long ago, pre searchable stuff.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: defined as 'what bits would you send back in time to time T1, if you could, from time T2, to maximize profit from investing C coin'
adlai: (log itself, not the channel)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nope. the notion of "optimal" is undefined.
asciilifeform: yet one or more optimal play variants must exist (in the sense the 'optimal' minimax game of chess exists. not in the sense that you could actually play that game or ever see so much as one move of it in life)
mircea_popescu: verrrrry deep this "minor point'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform for all the major differences between them and us, it occurs to me there's a very painfully obvious stylistical point : b-a.com doesn't have traffic tracking, github.com doesn't let you search.
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2015 22:12:30; asciilifeform: folks with a clue - comment, would the result have any useful connection with reality ?
asciilifeform: of that crud
asciilifeform: was flipping through search results
mircea_popescu: this takes the fucking cake,