tmsr - Log 2019-09-01

asciilifeform: #3 -- sumthing in france ; 5 -- ro; 6 -- canada; 7 -- singapur (trinque?) ; 8 -- slovak , like #1 .

asciilifeform: here's 1 moar tidbit : 172.86.178.46 , 216.151.13.77 , and 91.218.246.31 appear in zoolag's -addnode list but have NOT supplied 1 single block in the entire period represented in above log !!!

asciilifeform: i'ma remove'em, unless the owners (who runs these, fess up...) fix'em and write in.

asciilifeform: the 2nd in this set, dun even ping nomoar.

asciilifeform: the 1st dun answer on 8333 nomoar.

asciilifeform: the 3rd, still seems to be a noad, of some description. just, catches no mice.

asciilifeform: for thread-completeness -- if anyone has a trb that aint in my addnode ( the piz nodes -- already are in ) and would like it included -- plox to comment.

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: zoolag at 592682 , btw, as of 1min ago.

asciilifeform: trinque: then i have nfi whose

asciilifeform: iirc diana_coman has 1 in asia somewhere also

asciilifeform: trinque: lemme know if you need hints re fiddling (in particular uart is gnarly)

asciilifeform: has iirc martian baud rate

asciilifeform: a standard FG usb uartron can be used to talk to rk

asciilifeform: trinque: example with ftdi .

asciilifeform: ^ photo from asciilifeform's test beds

asciilifeform: be sure thing is set for 3.3v.

asciilifeform: trinque: quickest way to 'gimme sumthing that boots' is prolly mine .

asciilifeform: ^ and has gcc etc. so can work.

asciilifeform: pre-configged btw to shit tty0 to that uart.

asciilifeform: so can set to work even if no network etc

asciilifeform: trinque: the linked recipe gives you the closest thing there was to a working gentoo circa '18 .

asciilifeform: ( even 'emerge' will actually work, so long as you remember not to --sync )

asciilifeform: trinque if you encounter any grrr re rk, put in the log, i'ma answer asap.

asciilifeform bbl,moar meat

BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> a standard FG usb uartron can be used to talk to rk << Can it? You had me order a uart shipped here from the pastoral countryside

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: afaik it can, but needs coaxing to set the baud.

asciilifeform genuinely bbl

trinque: btw, spyked did you actually have a theory whereby my irc bot sits doing w/e for so long it doesn't respond to pings in time?

asciilifeform: trinque: i doubt this is the cause, mine lives on a box w/ quite heavy load, and so far 0 disconnects to date (aside from coupla hand restarts)

asciilifeform: !q uptime

asciilifeform: when i was experimenting, found that you can get away with 20-30s delay b/w 'ping' and 'pong' and not get thrown

asciilifeform: (i.e. it is in fact possible to fleanode with hands! via telnet)

lobbes: alighty, I got the "bare-bones" logotron up and running (just in test chans atm): http://logs.ericbenevides.com

lobbes: still need to: 1) test a bit more 2) import data dumps 3) get bot in all of the chans

lobbes: what took me the longest was the damn reverse proxy stuff (never done that before). Turns out it was simple enough though; will post a guide from notes once this is confirmed running smoothly

lobbes: hint: even though the "mod_proxy" wasn't showing up via the "apache2 -M" dump, nor in my modules.d configs... it, apparently, works anyway? Idk I'm sleep deprived nao; off to bed

diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-08-31#1932770 - mine is the first in the list there (103.36.92.112) but it doesn't seem to make it to top-1k providers of blocks; no idea why though, as far as I can tell it's been chugging along nicely all this time.

ossabot: Logged on 2019-08-31 17:59:20 asciilifeform: btw : awk '{print $8}' whogave_10_20_2018-8_31_2019.txt | sort | uniq > givers.txt >> less than 200 nodez !

BingoBoingo: !Xbuy 131mn 31 1209 Wired Filthy Fiats, WU is fine but not preferred

auctionbot: Buy order # 1056 created by BingoBoingo: 1209 Wired Filthy Fiats, WU is fine but not preferred Opening: 131mn ecu Ending: 2019-09-02 12:24:44.564940 UTC (30 hours)

auctionbot: Buy order # 1056: 1209 Wired Filthy Fiats, WU is fine but not preferred Heard: 131mn from trinque. Ending: 2019-09-02 12:24:44.564940 UTC (30 hours 47 mins)

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-31 17:59:34 asciilifeform: from this log, it would imho not be a mistake to say that there are approx 200 boxen that could be described as btc nodes . the rest -- are https://www.oglaf.com/humans/ .

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-31 21:15:45 trinque: btw mircea_popescu, I'm around if you want to fire off that tx

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-31 21:33:22 trinque: btw, spyked did you actually have a theory whereby my irc bot sits doing w/e for so long it doesn't respond to pings in time?

mircea_popescu: trinque, aite, lemme do it over, i don't want to pay week-old invoice in bitcoin. 5 mins.

mircea_popescu: !!v C843C3EDAD57CBADF09B9849655F9A8590AD2665807FE81588B00FA0930C6941

mircea_popescu: in other news, man it feels gooood to write/publish a new article. i actually enjoy it way the fuck more than meeting a new girl -- on average.

asciilifeform: lol i was half-expecting to see ventilation shaft of fuhrerbunker somewhere in them cobblestones.

asciilifeform oddly enuff has seen 'transfagarasan' once. it was distinctly visible from plane.

asciilifeform: also wondered, who and why drives there, when europistan has proper trains, cheap planes

mircea_popescu: iirc one of the best serpentine roads in the world, it's a wonder they didn't simply close it and rent it out for motorcycling events

asciilifeform: evidently ! nao answered.

mircea_popescu: very hard to match the comfort of a haremcar in any plane/train etc.

asciilifeform: iirc that serpentine was built as part of 'what if war with sovok!' episode

mircea_popescu: meanwhile in utterly mindblowing meta : nutaku.net/games/7-angels is a... game that... well... it simulates dating. for the people for whom the normal simulated dating apps ain't simulacrous enough, they have the next step over.

asciilifeform: nao, ~why~ shoemaker expected war w/ sovok, i do not know

mircea_popescu: nfi how the logic went, trivial to bomb out of existence, most of it is being bombed out of existence by yearly rains

mircea_popescu: not to mention, telling the idiots they were idiots re czech, and besides... even when gorbi took over ceausescu saw him more like an inept son figure than anythign

mircea_popescu: ie, romanians never thought very much of russkis. nfi why and wherefore, but it's a historical fact. making their current thinking the world of ustards even more shocking.

asciilifeform: iirc was connected w/ ro cp aligning w/ chinese line ( 'hrusch's speech at 20th party congress - betrayal of ideals!11' etc )

mircea_popescu: in any case -- the only good army in the country (4th transylvania, stationed around cluj and made up of you know, mountain folk) kinda away from bucharest

mircea_popescu: the logical move'd have been to take capital to brasov, but w/e.

asciilifeform still has a chinese, circa '70 or so, towel, hanging, bought by ancestors in trip to ro. they're ~eternal.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: a++ bear btw. ( supposedly there is a bear in east usa, but i've never seen. even the 1 in the zoo, seems to have died 20y ago )

mircea_popescu: this is one of a bunch, actually. we even saw a hedgehog cross the road towards sunset

mircea_popescu: what i mean : multiple bear sightings. this one just managed to film

asciilifeform: seems like bear's country, eh. ( is there even anyffin man-made in those parts , other than that autobahn ? )

asciilifeform: food as in, what tourists throw from autos ?

mircea_popescu: the area is populated, like in europe, not wilderness, like in the us. there's a church within a day's walk in whichever direction

asciilifeform: re czechs-in-'68 lulz -- apparently gnarly subj, with archaeologists still wanking. (supposedly -- ck was evenly split, and andropov's vote broke tie)

asciilifeform: there's an entire school of crackpottery that andropov was 'manchurian candidate', grown by finn 'machiavelli' otto kuusinen .

asciilifeform: ( imho as far as these go, not even unfounded, a. crowned, after all, gorby )

lobbes: good good. About to depart for a road-trip (roughly 1200 miles of drivin' in the next 48 hours), so I'll be away from terminal for a spell

lobbes: nowhere interesting (Ohio). Bringing girly back home finally. Perhaps will take some pics for blog though on way back

asciilifeform: lobbes: the ejected girly , that is ?

lobbes: asciilifeform: is indeed ejected girly. Didn't come to having to call police it seems; she got the message

trinque: listen if the cops don't show up it's not a trinquian solution!11!1

asciilifeform: lobbes: why not. just dun get close enuff where she can re-inject the toxoplasma and make you into zombie..

asciilifeform about to restart reader.py , adding ossabot to 'bots' for proper colouration. expect ~5sec of dead time.

mircea_popescu: one of these days ima notice one of these in time to actually stick some lines in the silence

asciilifeform: diana_coman: plox to add 'snsabot' to yours, for similar .

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it dun affect the logger bot.

asciilifeform: !q uptime

asciilifeform: afaik this is actually 1st time that we have 100% interchangeable-part bots .

mircea_popescu: i was thinking, all this shit is much too not fragile, wtf are we doing here!

diana_coman: asciilifeform: hm, I thought I had added it, will have to check.

asciilifeform: !o uptime

asciilifeform: neato.

asciilifeform: let's see : http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-01#1932938 < > http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-01#1932938

asciilifeform: hey diana_coman , odd

asciilifeform: why not aligned ?

mircea_popescu: aaand her super great large format pics put my blog to shame, as seen on this curved meterwide display right here. damn.

asciilifeform: seems like ossabot lost a line at some point ?

asciilifeform: grr, i see why.

asciilifeform: or nm, that wouldn't explain ( thought, at first 'it sees own output, naturally, 1st' but that wouldn't explain wai above diverges )

asciilifeform: let's 1 moar : http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-01#1932845 << >> http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-01#1932845

ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-01 04:55:56 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-08-31#1932770 - mine is the first in the list there (103.36.92.112) but it doesn't seem to make it to top-1k providers of blocks; no idea why though, as far as I can tell it's been chugging along nicely all this time.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-01 04:42:31 diana_coman: at least it scrapes through into top-500 though, lol.

asciilifeform: ^ still delta of 1 .

asciilifeform: diana_coman i suspect you missed 1 line when was manually syncing .

ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-01 03:44:26 lobbes: what took me the longest was the damn reverse proxy stuff (never done that before). Turns out it was simple enough though; will post a guide from notes once this is confirmed running smoothly

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-01 03:28:55 lobbes: what took me the longest was the damn reverse proxy stuff (never done that before). Turns out it was simple enough though; will post a guide from notes once this is confirmed running smoothly

asciilifeform: gotta find where, and why.

diana_coman: well, syncing indices is gotta be automated not manual hunting though

asciilifeform: this also

asciilifeform: ok found

asciilifeform: diana_coman yours logged when wasn't voiced

asciilifeform: this accts for the extra lines.

asciilifeform: recall that bots are 'deaf' to own output, so there is no, afaik, pill against this

asciilifeform: divergence happened at birth of ossabot , the 1st time it was asked to speak

asciilifeform manually walked the log-raw/ dumps, found

diana_coman: but it does mean that indices won't be in sync, pretty much, huh

asciilifeform: nao if could think of how to cleanly fix these... to make the bot echoes actually interchangeable, as they oughta be

diana_coman: meanwhile I found out while it failed to colour snsabot properly: I called it nsabot ofc; drat

asciilifeform: i suspected this

asciilifeform: ( it would have been 'nsabot', too, but someone apparently is squatting that nick )

asciilifeform: ty diana_coman

asciilifeform: the divergence thing is gonna back backlinkage implementation very painful

asciilifeform: ( not to mention, impedes an imho important function of having multiple bots, i.e. where can substitute links if 1 fails )

asciilifeform: we're gonna need a pill .

asciilifeform: ( for that matter, asciilifeform still not attempted to correct divergence vs. phf's bot, which came from the uniturds crapola 3w ago )

asciilifeform: not to mention the horror with the dates ( it is not difficult to find lines that e.g. snsabot will quote correctly, but ossabot not, and in reverse, on acct of clock diff )

asciilifeform: diana_coman: thread re the latter

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-28 21:09:04 trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-27#1931384 << what's the url you want to have? possibly doable as apache-level URL rewrite

diana_coman: asciilifeform: I agree re trouble but sadly I don't have any idea how to solve it

asciilifeform: diana_coman: mircea_popescu said 'go think', so i went, to think. still haven't a pill tho.

asciilifeform: re that thrd, asciilifeform prolly will succumb to temptation to buy rubidium clock ( they're apparently laffably cheap, 100-200 bux or so, massive pile of surplus from gsm towers ) but this aint a solution as such, i aint about to ask ~erryone~ to buy one and build the 10mhz-to-pc-clock box for same. asciilifeform is simply tired of his own clocks drifting all over.

asciilifeform: ( the lamp is apparently good for 10-20 yrs, in these )

asciilifeform: imho that thing oughta be standard item in pc. gives clean, stable fundamental freq from which can run pll, incl. the 1 for cpu clock, in principle.

asciilifeform: ( physically -- they're about half the volume of box of cigar. )

asciilifeform: diana_coman: take a look in your config... suddenly your box shows as 'sossabot' ??

asciilifeform: ( e.g. http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-08-26#1931351 seen via www reader )

ossabot: Logged on 2019-08-26 23:58:39 sossabot: Logged on 2019-08-26 21:02:00 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: currently hunting for an 1u-embeddable 16port GB switch

asciilifeform: ossabot: check your nick = .... in the conf

asciilifeform: err, diana_coman ^

asciilifeform: seems like this happened from the colouration fix : http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-01#1932965

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-01 15:53:56 ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-01 03:44:26 lobbes: what took me the longest was the damn reverse proxy stuff (never done that before). Turns out it was simple enough though; will post a guide from notes once this is confirmed running smoothly

asciilifeform: diana_coman: mine displays correctly

ossabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 03:23:23 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926527 << also jhvh1 and a111 please. and i guess candilust & tb0t eventually, though not yet. oh and "ossabot" is actually "sossabot" for some reason, i guess let's stick to it.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-08 21:16:41 lobbes: http://trilema.com/2019/trilema-goes-dark/#comment-130823 << Seeing as the order was given to strike scriba from the list, I have also removed it from the TMSR bot directory (which means the command prefix "!$" is available again): http://lobbesblog.com/static/tmsr_bot_directory.html

asciilifeform: diana_coman: i'ma manually set off my dump, if this helps ( can grab it in 10s or so)

asciilifeform: ( done anyway )

diana_coman: I just need to think a bit re how to fix it without creating more trouble

asciilifeform: what was the issue there ?

diana_coman: asciilifeform: me being silly really; your dump has nsabot user, my db has ossabot so I did stupidly a blind replace, didn't think of the name in the log

asciilifeform fwiw has not yet manually fiddled the db in any way -- i.e. phf's imports are as they were found. the 1 'hand' fix was when dropped the botched eat of #e and reran w/ lobbes's corrected eater.py . but all url's are as-they-were atm.

asciilifeform: 'era 1' , when finally eaten, will be 'dekakoized' via phf's algo, i.e. <a href="...foo...">bar</a> only 'foo' will be transfomed, when foo corresponds to a kakotron url

asciilifeform: is why i divided time into 'era'

asciilifeform: currently era 1 has not been eaten, it is pending a pill for the clock diff grrr

asciilifeform: diana_coman if you want snsabot url's to point to your www, imho the correct method, is this, rather than to actually alter db

asciilifeform: hm i was thinking diana_coman actually ran 'sed' on the db dump

diana_coman: yes; but not for changing urls (anyway it doesn't help with that, or I don't see how since url uses nosuchlabs /ossasepia, no?)

asciilifeform: hm so for which was it ? why did the dump need to be sed'd ?

asciilifeform: ooh hm i think i get it

asciilifeform: cuz diff db user.

asciilifeform: right.

asciilifeform: ok makes sense.

asciilifeform: ( in re urls tho -- if we had a reliable sync, would be quite painless to have each logger re-point log links to self )

mod6: (Mainly follows what I talked about in the logs a couple of days ago.)

asciilifeform: mod6: a++ . chronicle errything you can, incl. (especially!) dead ends

asciilifeform: imho mircea_popescu was right about this, gotta write it or otherwise will go in circles 4evah

asciilifeform: the way, is said, people go in the desert

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-01 16:52:52 asciilifeform: ( in re urls tho -- if we had a reliable sync, would be quite painless to have each logger re-point log links to self )

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if had ...logger-a/log/trilema/.../#12345... and ...logger-b/log/trilema/.../#12345... go to same place, then their www can reliably point all links to self ( for e.g. backlinkage , when implemented) otherwise not

mircea_popescu: if i use logger a it is because i use logger a ; i wouldn't appreciate seeing my lines edited to use logger b, and especially not by logger b.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: how wouldja have backlinks ( as phf had ) work ?

asciilifeform: as displayed in e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2015-03-06#1044115 ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2015-03-06 03:29 mircea_popescu: if you are one of the people buying belgian rubber concessions on the stock exchanges, you make money. if you're in africa, you make quick with the hands and feet.

asciilifeform: the arrows that point to downstream (and correspondingly, upstream) refs

asciilifeform: tbf phf's proggy only understood own

asciilifeform: yes, in that when errybody has own logger, and uses it to echo, nobody will have anyffin resembling a complete index of backlinks

asciilifeform: so that knob (not implemented yet) becomes just about worthless even in principle. but this is only tip of iceberg -- if the db's diverge arbitrarily, how wouldja go about syncing gaps, other than by hand.

mircea_popescu: i am not discussing db divergence ; i am discussing line rewriting.

asciilifeform: imho line rewriting is Wrong Thing entirely. errybody oughta have identical (to extent possible) db. q was re ~display~ in www , i.e. where the links point.

asciilifeform: as in e.g. phf's, where kako links display as originally witnessed, but if clicked to to phf's log.

mircea_popescu: seems fundamentally disingenuous, "oh, you clicked on a.com ? here's my own version"

asciilifeform: the old links are dead !

asciilifeform: ( kako's , that is, phf's -- for nao -- alive 0

mircea_popescu: so this is a reason to introduce it as standard practice for live links ?!

asciilifeform: only if you actually want backlinkage resembling phf's ( iirc mircea_popescu put it in spec, and even griped that it aint in yet , not long ago )

asciilifeform: let's suppose not even want this. still imho oughta maintain sync, where #1234 goes to same thing in ea. machine. otherwise the loggers are not in fact plug-in redundant backups for 1 another .

asciilifeform: ( and hm, loox like diana_coman's unplugged for maintenance atm )

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm trying to draw an exact map of this 'cthulhu beast' .

asciilifeform: so as to find what is even practical to consider .

asciilifeform: ( this ~is~ afaik 1st time that anyone attempted orchestra of synchronized bots )

asciilifeform: imho the bare essential function is when the urls can be made interchangeable such that if 1 fails, can swap in /etc/hosts and carry on civilized conversation until it is fixed; errything other than this, is luxury.

mircea_popescu: but i dunno that it extends as far as an expectation of functional retrospective backlink decorations

asciilifeform: maybe -- not. but as i understand if the above can be had, than so -- later -- could this.

asciilifeform: *then so

asciilifeform: re 'the beast' -- already unleashed is the beast of variant line ordering (bots will log their own output prior to any other's, per the current scheme, and it is not obvious what -- if anything -- could or even should be done about this )

mircea_popescu: alright, but that's different, specifically in that there's no god-given time

asciilifeform: i already despaired in re the very idea of 'synced time' ; but this is in re absolute ordering.

mircea_popescu: we ~could~ have a rule asking bots to log themselves as they receive the echo rather than as they send the line ; but that'd only work in a sane world where it echos, afaik irc does not

asciilifeform: it does not .

asciilifeform: bots presently are stuck 'manually' writing down own outputs .

mircea_popescu: so yeah. weird baked in. (gossipd, obviously, will not have the problem, everyone'll hear "here's what you allededly said" from multiple sources)

mircea_popescu: such wunderbar winful scheme, it's a fucking wonder they didn't come up with it / use it

asciilifeform: irc per se as i understand is a 'dark ages' creation, before ~anyone stopped to even try to think about ~anything

asciilifeform: possib. 'product' of the other half of same bottle of whiskey as email.

asciilifeform: the 'upgrades' are obv. product of 2nd bottle of whiskey.

asciilifeform: ( incidentally -- as gedankenexperiment -- even 1980s irc ~could~ have been built so as to force a sync. simply force erry issued line to carry a checksum of the prev. seen. and if wrong -- you get eggog back, and asked to resend. but no one was even giving a nanoshit about 'agree on order' etc, quite obviously )

asciilifeform: see also lamport's piece re subj. ( actually from same period ) .

asciilifeform: long-ago solved problem , supposing anyone could've been arsed.

asciilifeform: e.g. bitcoin -- seen through this lens -- is simply a generalization of lamport's sync .

asciilifeform: ( lamport did not offer a 'wat-do if N parties can't agree on 'prev line'', if he had thought about this, bitcoin would have existed, at least as algo, in 1990... )

asciilifeform: re 'why the fuck bot doesn't see own output' -- mircea_popescu had a piece re the idjicy of 'nat' , where same, q of 'what is my ip' becomes suddenly irresolvable w/out external help. i suspect in both cases 'sleep of reason breeds monsters', no one even considered to fucking think.

asciilifeform: 'new jersey philosophy', right, where 'hey it's good enuff, and if turns out not, let ~others~ clean up'. same way as email 'was goodenuff', from the idjit designer's pov, until spam, then suddenly 'what's yer problem with moving to walled gul^H^H^Hgarden, terrorist, will work there as before'. ditto irc.

diana_coman: asciilifeform: in the end I did use your most recent dump, thank you.

diana_coman: the above mainly because it's a cleaner solution i.e. no more sed on the db dump (re db user I simply changed manually precisely *that* and not touched any log lines)

diana_coman: ofc the above has also as side effect that bots are now in sync re line numbers

asciilifeform: diana_coman: appears to work. we're gonna want an algo , tho, that doesn't resolve to 'throw out my db if outta sync and eat the other's' imho .

asciilifeform: eventually ~will~ come the time when to reconstitute 100% proper picture gotta actually walk N db's .

asciilifeform: ( esp. when we finally get 3+ logtrons )

diana_coman: asciilifeform: indeed; though atm I can't think of anything that isn't ~= automated walk of N dbs

asciilifeform: currently closest thing i have to a workable idea for this is a ~semi~-automatic item that'd eat N dbs and display, to operator, the divergence points, and propose all possible cuts for how to resolve; then select one.

asciilifeform: sorta how gentoo used to have for configs.

asciilifeform: presently i doubt that this sorta thing can ever be safely 100% automated.

asciilifeform: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-01#1933121 << >> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-01#1933121

ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-01 18:33:42 diana_coman: ofc the above has also as side effect that bots are now in sync re line numbers

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-01 18:18:11 diana_coman: ofc the above has also as side effect that bots are now in sync re line numbers

asciilifeform: ^ worx!

asciilifeform: the bots in these particular pairs, aha

mircea_popescu: i find it really satisfyingly funny, the sort of problems we manage to trivially summon