30600+ entries in 0.542s
mircea_popescu: in practice i'm in two waters about it, wouldn'
t be surprised if the whole thing catches fire.
ben_vulpes: surely a symlink wouldn'
t eat more than a few bytes now would it
mircea_popescu: obv you can'
t store infinite data in finite hard drive, i came to terms with that
mircea_popescu: more importantly, why is this not ~exactly~ like saying "doh, of course you can'
t fill a drive with text files". dude what.
mircea_popescu: this way you don'
t actually have to ~index~ anything, if you wish to see where txn 1234567890 was included in a block, you go to /12/34/56/7890 which points to block x
☟︎☟︎ ben_vulpes:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-20#1586531 << i don'
t recall the proposed tests, actually. i mulled on this for a bit, am reluctant to try any sort of implementation until i finish the sqlator which a) is probably just sunk cost fallacy rearing its head, as i've done not much there but design the schema and prep a massive ingest job and b) has now been bumped down my todo list *again* in favor of vtronic
☝︎ BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Of course it can'
t compete, but it can Pretend!
mircea_popescu: (not that this consideration has much practical value - outside of #trilema the community to do such thing doesn'
t exist, and so wasn'
t at the time an option)
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1587923 << i am fwiw satisfied that it's qutie mroe than this : vs aren'
t on btcbase because they don'
t fundamentally belong on btcbase, because unlike public trb "we all use this" they're private "my girl will dance the way ~i~ want her to dance and stfu". there's a much more limited set of rules re what vtrons should do ; than re what trbs should do.
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2016-12-22 01:22 ben_vulpes: just because mircea_popescu didn'
t complain about the failure at the time doesn'
t make it right.
ben_vulpes: but if it doesn'
t show me which patches are lacking sigs, that strikes me as a bug.
☟︎ mod6: it *can*, but shouldn'
t be.
mod6: pressable or printable, doesn'
t matter. the wot is the dictator.
mod6: this is why they exist in the first place, these WILD vpatches, because my impl wasn'
t written with this in mind. i was more written with the idea that a guy would place things in .wot/.seals/patches by hand and would know what is what.
ben_vulpes: well, hang on. if patches with no sigs are omitted from flow, they won'
t show up as WILD in the flow, correct?
mod6: i thought you didn'
t want it to fail.
mod6: i think, he's saying, what is the benefit of V honking when it doesn'
t find a key in your wot that matches a seal in your seal dir, provided that you don'
t pull a mod6.
ben_vulpes: let's rewind: what does trinque miss when v finds a seal for a vpatch for which it doesn'
t find a key and proceeds merrily, provided it does find *a* seal for the patch that corresponds to a key in .wot?
trinque: otherwise yes, asciilifeform is right that if this doesn'
t matter, just have a thing that presses patches with hashes in the m
ben_vulpes: trinque: if all vpatches from genesis to HEAD carry a signature corresponding to a key in .wot, v presses. that signatures exist in .seals for people i don'
t choose to put the key for into .wot should not matter.
trinque: ben_vulpes: what keys, you said you don'
t have them anywhere
mod6: creating a genesis is a different thing too; v create a genesis of v. which i did work out, but alas, as you are eluding to, i never published because was nervous that it hadn'
t been very well audited yet.
mod6: im <+ben_vulpes> just because mircea_popescu didn'
t complain about the failure at the time doesn'
t make it right. << maybe.
ben_vulpes: just because mircea_popescu didn'
t complain about the failure at the time doesn'
t make it right.
☟︎ mod6: if it were obvious, we wouldn'
t be having this conversation in the first place.
mod6: ok. see maybe there was something there that I didn'
t pick up on. :/
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i don'
t even want to open that discussion, it's fucking obvious they're equivalent but whatevers.
mod6: so today, with my impl, you'd have to at minimum, get rid of 3999 sigs from .seals. you could also, if you wanted to, get rid of 68 pub keys in your .wot. iirc, that part isn'
t required tho.
mircea_popescu: such as in "what classes of objections can or can'
t be brought to a v implementation"
mod6: and not that it shoudn'
t anyway, there are some things about my implementation that i do not appreciate looking back on it.
mod6: i suspect that it isn'
t written that way.
mircea_popescu: it should probably stop if it finds valid patch that can'
t be applied (mismatched hashes) - because by then your state is broken.
mircea_popescu: mod6 if it simply skips over the patches it can'
t find acceptable sigs for, it delivers asciilifeform 's thing above where you don'
t have to keep fucking around with the patch set.
mod6: we don'
t not allow the oppertunity to continue without a signature on a vpatch.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> there shouldn'
t be any flag - nor should it press unsigned things. && <+mircea_popescu> with the test key ? why not ? fucks with your workflow ?
mircea_popescu: for every patch, check if patch sig by approved names is present. this isn'
t any sort of N^2 ; it's O(N*M) where N is the count of patches and M the count of approved signers.
mircea_popescu: no they won'
t ; partly because we won'
t be doing anything idiotic like "giving random names to seals".
mod6: that's because toposort hasn'
t happened yet.
mircea_popescu: '
t think you're an expert email or vim or bash user after less than a year and that's about how long v's been around.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-21 21:35 mod6: which basically means to me, either no one understands "vtronics" or no one who did ever audited the thing. and i'm clearly not qualified and shouldn'
t have written the fucking thing int he first place.
mod6: iw asn'
t sure that the problems you're having are related to this
a111: Logged on 2016-12-21 20:44 mod6: <+asciilifeform> even the current thread in #mod6 , is possibly an example << asciilifeform found an oversight in my latest version of V. it doesn'
t have a flag allow or disallow the pressing of WILD vpatches.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-21 20:44 mod6: <+asciilifeform> even the current thread in #mod6 , is possibly an example << asciilifeform found an oversight in my latest version of V. it doesn'
t have a flag allow or disallow the pressing of WILD vpatches.
mod6: if i have a bunch of seals in my .seals dir from a guy named 'alf' that isn'
t in my wot, then V will complain.
mod6: anyway, i cna'
t talk atm
jurov: wait a sec. mod6's build system won'
t work if v is to reject patches without sigs?
mod6: which basically means to me, either no one understands "vtronics" or no one who did ever audited the thing. and i'm clearly not qualified and shouldn'
t have written the fucking thing int he first place.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they aren'
t. the correct solution here is to have "automated low value signature process", NOT "to bypass signature checks".
trinque: they're not; one doesn'
t introduce a branch
mod6: it doesn'
t care at signature time if one is WILD or not, only if the vpatch does not ~verify~ and there is a corresponding seal.
mod6: you can'
t turn off the sig check, at least in mine.
trinque: the only reason we don'
t manually apply all each time is we are relying upon the "sworn"
mod6: i don'
t have time right now. i'll come back later for this.
mod6: I don'
t think it is reasonable to sign every thing I want to test.
mircea_popescu: there shouldn'
t be any flag - nor should it press unsigned things.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> even the current thread in #mod6 , is possibly an example << asciilifeform found an oversight in my latest version of V. it doesn'
t have a flag allow or disallow the pressing of WILD vpatches.
☟︎☟︎ trinque: yeah, I don'
t suppose there's a solution in posing the question.
mircea_popescu: so far i'm opting out of the entire "systematic slavery" thing ; it is a private not public matter entirely opaque to they-who-aren-
t-me, which makes me-as-slaveholder rather divine in nature.
trinque: mircea_popescu: and wouldn'
t misapplication of this only further miswire her, and produce worse results ?
trinque: allocation of thought-power can'
t be done intelligently on a matter not already known.
mircea_popescu: "they didn'
t know lightning is available in store - thought zeus only item. so they didn'
t make tesla coil. problem ?"
mircea_popescu: but forget glass. ~everyone had potatoes even if they didn'
t have lemons, and tin and copper. who made galvanic gold plating process ?
mircea_popescu: i dunno alfie. lava - hot. behind it - glass. doesn'
t seem more of a leap than what is proposed for the original "cooking meat" discovery, which supposedly is why we're even here.
mircea_popescu: and i wouldn'
t even think it fair to say that the other two thirds are dumber or something.
mircea_popescu: you know, prior to the internet MOST GIRLS didn'
t know they can masturbate ?
mircea_popescu: i mean heck - they had atomic theory and didn'
t even build cyclotron
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i met two kinds of women in this life ; the kind that'd hang out with anyone just as long as they didn'
t go to jail/starve/whatever ; and the kind that'd hang out with me if it meant underground.
mircea_popescu: and sure, the greek style of deductive logic, from the all downwards lost in the field to the latin method of inductive "from the parts is made the ballista". i have no objections, but also can'
t pretend the alternative never existed.
mircea_popescu: there's many problems ; it's not even the case that the greek notion of "dimension" at all maps to anything here extant. the discussion is carried on trilema on easier things such as "power" etc ; but in any case, it's rather like having lisp types arbitrarily sloshed around. you don'
t just add 5+5 like that, if they're different types.
mircea_popescu: there you go - i haven'
t translated, but at least discussion allowed us to build a sufficient basis so at least a meaningful summary could be devised.
mircea_popescu: and aristotle could read this log, smile broadly at alf, and say "hey, suppose someone comes up with a superunitary probability ; and you disqualify it for you know, being out of the defined bounds. my my aren'
t you a circular logician just like me!"
jurov: you can write elaborate essays in any languages, dead or alive that pi ==== three. but you can'
t clearly draw it.
mircea_popescu: the question before you is, were you trying to understand the greeks, or were you trying to explain to yourself why you aren'
t trying to ?
mircea_popescu: now we understand each other. dutch can'
t be "wrong" about aristotle per se. it is a fact he didn'
t much understand what the other said ; and it is a fact that in the dutch system, dutch's observations stand, however vaguely greek flavoured they may be.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: i didn'
t say that. i said - that dutch's writing is interesting as of dutch ; not much as of aristotle.
mircea_popescu: and no, it's not at all harder to talk nonsense via diagram. more generally : there's no methodological salvation ; you won'
t go to heaven through not swearing ; you won'
t produce science by following "the science method" and so following.
mircea_popescu: which he did sound like ; and which is why he doesn'
t figure as proeminently among the greeks of his time as he does among moderns.
mircea_popescu: because no, words don'
t "have meanings". your meanings for ANY WORD are a function of ALL THE OTHER WORDS YOU KNOW. which is why my definitions regularily blow out english dictionaries, wikipedia and other sources of "wisdom" out of the water - i know more words, and in this knowledge i know all the words i know ~better~. infinitely and irreproducibly so.
☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎