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asciilifeform: obj i'm ill-equipped to say for sure, hanbot

trinque: again, only trivia involved. I've also run clusters of postgres, fleets of webservers, etc etc etc

asciilifeform: an asciilifeform who had never touched microshit, i suspect, would be a better man than asciilifeform who did.. ☟︎

asciilifeform: i think aristotle actually had , sadly, correct notion, where doing some kinds of work actually makes you dumber ☟︎

asciilifeform: hanbot: this gets complicated. e.g. i put high value on mircea_popescu's pov re programming, even tho he (afaik) moar or less never programs

hanbot: and as to microsoft specifically, i do trust your opinion on microsoft above the opinion of microsoft of an imaginary asciilifeform that never touched it. this is exactly what i meant about finding out whether there's even anything there.

asciilifeform: ~100% of the problems i learned to solve, only exist on acct of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892448 ☝︎

trinque: hanbot: yeah, I'm already running an IRC server elsewhere. there is no high magic in it, only low trivia.

asciilifeform: fwiw i dun feel like my many yrs of setting up multi-MB balls of c ??? liquishit on various net-facing boxen, taught me ~anyffin that'd be applicable on hypothetical sane comp

trinque: eh this isn't going to teach anyone anything they wouldn't have learned running any other server farm. I and I'm sure several people already do, or have.

asciilifeform: ( and specifically, why not also 'i'd trust operator who also had in the past set up winblowz 2012' then )

hanbot: asciilifeform: i'd trust a gossipd operator that'd also operated the ircd bridge above one who hadn't, other things being comparable.

asciilifeform: and he answered honestly, 'to roll wheelbarrow fulla rocks on narrow planks. is all i learned.'

asciilifeform: for instance, in saeculum i've set up microshit boxen of various sorts. and could not honestly say that i learned from the experience anything applicable on sane-people planet.

asciilifeform: diana_coman: i hesitate to say 'no useful'. but possibly 'very little'.

asciilifeform: it isn't even that i dun think it's worth doing ( fleanode only ever gets ~moar~ rotten, and never less ) . but imho the cost is prolly not recoverable ( in the engineering sense ) .

asciilifeform: indeed will learn what the troubles are in practice. only i suspect that 0 of it will have any bearing on the gossipd side.

diana_coman: what the troubles are in practice; note that I'm not talking about "bake glue" but rather a full run servers

asciilifeform: diana_coman: i'll admit that it isn't clear to me how effort put into baking glue for oddball nonstandard ircisms helps in re gossipd . irc as i see it is an entirely dead-end tech ( rides on tcp, and 0 notion of crypto , and cannot be retrofitted really )

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: what i mean is, it's same 'attack' erry time, and consists 100% of https://www.oglaf.com/humans/

asciilifeform: diana_coman et al : i'm also not 100% convinced that the proposed multi-network thing is actually less of a nut to crack than adult gossipd. ( consider, how wouldja do authentication ? the extant ircd's support either '~nuffin, anyone can hijack session' or ssltardism . )

asciilifeform: diana_coman: the central headache afaik is http://trilema.com/2019/the-freenode-issue/#comment-128269 , i.e. the various nets have an idjit user lock-in thing going

a111: Logged on 2019-03-12 18:43 hanbot: http://trilema.com/2019/the-freenode-issue/ << i'm for moving, seeing no compelling reason to stay. pinging asciilifeform ave1 ben_vulpes bingoboingo danielpbarron diana_coman lobbes mod6 phf spyked trinque for inputs.

diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-12#1901514 -> I'm for moving; the only reason for staying was being busy with tending to other fires that burnt worse but freenode seems to be burning worse and worse lately anyway; a multi-network bridge sounds best in my opinion but I don't really know how much work needs to be put in to get that. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-08-04 22:05 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: iirc i proposed at one time an intermediate item on the way to proper gossipd ( 'serpent'-ciphered tunneler to connect coupla ircd instances to each other, and ditto for users ( get otp cookie a la deedbot, get a key that's good for 1 tcp connect ) but so far instead followed mircea_popescu's advice re not wasting sweat on such a thing, but pushing with ffa so as to get with what to gossipd.

trinque: I say move.

a111: Logged on 2018-08-04 22:08 asciilifeform: this being said, i personally would prefer exodus from fleanode to happen on our schedule, rather than in the wake of a catastrophic drop of it into complete unusability.

asciilifeform: hanbot: imho oughta move ( as i said in the past, e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-04#1839469 ) , q is 'where' ☝︎

hanbot: http://trilema.com/2019/the-freenode-issue/ << i'm for moving, seeing no compelling reason to stay. pinging asciilifeform ave1 ben_vulpes bingoboingo danielpbarron diana_coman lobbes mod6 phf spyked trinque for inputs. ☟︎☟︎

trinque: interesting question, what happens when I crank the parallelism to 11, go find out why dont you.

trinque: no, I'm not saying "this ritual is how you avoid the bad". I'm saying that cranking the number of parallel jobs will reveal whether builds rely on implicit race-condition ordering, vs having been written correctly with the whole dependency graph of the build expressed in makefile.

PeterL: so you mean it is less likely to have bugs pop up if I lower the number?

trinque: I've seen 'em before.

PeterL: trinque: I am looking at building Cuntoo. Quick question: would there be anything detrimental to having MAKEOPTS set too high? (I see it is set to -j8 at one point in the script, but I only have 2 processors?)

nicoleci: yeah i can see that how useless to entertain the past. even so, not sure on the resolve of managing the abundance of how much i need to learn and how little i know.

nicoleci: asciilifeform, glad it finally came - i really enjoyed reading it. probably one of the more bizarre transactions

asciilifeform: ^ i've been waiting for that 1 from the beginning!111

a111: Logged on 2019-03-11 19:49 asciilifeform: so presently i cannot think of a scenario where i'd want to reopen the case of gcd.

asciilifeform: possibly i've my chinese solzhenitsyns mixed up, idk

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'cacatu de pe bec', that was a mega-piece, i recall

asciilifeform: ( i have nfi whether the ancients had this proverb, but betcha they did )

mircea_popescu: i suppose.

mircea_popescu: there's this pic of some indistinct slut i posted once i'm too lazy to retrieve. she happens to be white, sports all manner of celtic cross tattoos, stylisized "SS" etc, is taking a coupla brown dicks. ☟︎

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if somebody does compact keccak tonight, i'ma only say thanks

mircea_popescu: i can think of little more shameful than dood's "career", such as it is.

Mocky: asciilifeform: wp-syntax is what I'm looking for, thx

asciilifeform: for the highlighting, i use mircea_popescu's js thing

asciilifeform: err, 4096b m-r (i.e. price of 2 modexps)

asciilifeform: so presently i cannot think of a scenario where i'd want to reopen the case of gcd. ☟︎

bvt: ok, i see

bvt: iirc the c-t version of algorithm comes later - around section 5. there is a formula for calculating upper bound of iterations, but I did not check his math.

asciilifeform: in re single-shot gcd, you either ~look at the bits~ , and that's lehmer's (not constant-time-able) method, or you do not, and that's stein's or the division-powered one, and i suspect it can be proven that yer stuck with quadratic runtime if you dun look at the bits.

bvt: also, i did not forgot about http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-01#1899904 , but had too little time to investigate it properly; will try to do tests over this week and do a writeup on the weekend ☝︎

bvt: asciilifeform: https://gcd.cr.yp.to/papers.html -- rather new constant time gcd from djb. i did not look at it closely so can't say if it's anything good or belong to the kunstkammer

a111: Logged on 2019-03-10 23:28 trinque: bvt: diana_coman: I wager that if you change line 14 of scripts/make_portage_tree.sh to the following, my sig will verify on the resulting genesis.vpatch : dest=$pdir/profiles/${src#$bdir/usr/portage/profiles/}

a111: Logged on 2019-03-10 21:39 trinque: scripts/make_portage_tree.sh << line 14, I do string-munging on the path that's specific to my own filesystem layout

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-11#1901354 << spyked - i was thinking, 'let's make torrent', then realized that torrent is some (afaik) largely unexplored heathenware, possibly due for a civilized replacement. might be worth expanding on if anyone has free hands. ☝︎☟︎

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-10#1901308 << it's ALL! like this. the whole motherfucking x86 arch. where is there example of ~non~-ugliness, i'd like to learn. ☝︎

spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-09#1901047 <-- sounds reasonable; I've set it to redirect to a notice, at worst people will ask here if they're confused. ☝︎

trinque: bvt: diana_coman: I wager that if you change line 14 of scripts/make_portage_tree.sh to the following, my sig will verify on the resulting genesis.vpatch : dest=$pdir/profiles/${src#$bdir/usr/portage/profiles/} ☟︎☟︎☟︎

mircea_popescu: bvt i see.

mircea_popescu: diana_coman what ended up being the problem then, i'm not getting something here.

trinque: bvt: thanks very much for posting this for me! I now know what to fix, back shortly.

trinque: scripts/make_portage_tree.sh << line 14, I do string-munging on the path that's specific to my own filesystem layout ☟︎☟︎

trinque: ah for fucks sake, I found it

bvt: as i mentioned, currently i can show results only from live cuntoo

mod6: I also have tar'd up the entire cuntoo build directory, but have not posted it. It's like 1.7G, but will send it somewhere if someone wants it.

mod6: I have also posted the entire typescript (47Mb WARNING) of the build to my website: http://www.mod6.net/cuntoo-blog-2/nomods.cuntoo.build.typescript

trinque: anyhow, bvt, can I get you to paste an ls -R starting from build/cuntoo ?

mod6: Is there anything else I can check for you while I have your ear?

mod6: Oh, sorry, I guess I wasn't excatly sure what you were asking me to look for, and where. I never had /dev/sdb mounted when I did the bootstrap.

trinque: I don't know why you find this surprising

mod6: trinque: aha. yeah, powered down, plugged my gentoo SSD back in, and am booted into gentoo where i've built cuntoo.

mod6: I've looked at the genesis.vpatch that was genereated ( http://www.mod6.net/cuntoo-blog-2/nomods.genesis.vpatch ), and at first glance I don't see these files in their paths. (even if I remove the preceeding 'a/').

mod6: trinque: Ok, immediately I notice that in my /home/mod6/cuntoo/nomods/cuntoo working directory, from which I ran `./bootstrap.sh -k config/cuntoo-test1 -d /dev/sdb` there is currently nothing in the 'build' directory.

bvt: there are Import(Ada,...) and Import(Asm,...), which do the same thing according to the docs (http://archive.is/XEHW0#selection-17075.0-17109.171), and I did not manage to find any ABI docs with 'ada calling sequence'.

bvt: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-10#1901101 << I decided against inline assembly because the asm source is quite large, it's inconvenient to have 100+ lines of asm inline with comments. ☝︎

mircea_popescu: i really do not wish to see c strings, and i don't perceive char buffer to be different. "bitstream" does not exist. so my thinking is, to henceforth mandate datapassing as such a field.

a111: Logged on 2019-03-10 19:44 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-10#1901176 << i'll put it to the top of the stack, i remember fixing it, but never completing the patch.

diana_coman: that seems to be at most at reading-chunk-from-file level which is not really related to keccak and not a problem if I understand correctly what phf says; specifically on one hand he said http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-10#1901225 and then option c from http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-10#1901236 ☝︎☝︎

mircea_popescu: diana_coman i mean that instead of keccak receiving array of bits stored in octets, keccak receives (and processes) a eucomms field.

mircea_popescu: to be clear : i expect that in the regular course of republican work, GB-sized vdiffs will occur -- strictly because we're contemplating confiscating all sort and manner of heathen artefact, and by now bloat is just a synonym for heathen. the "increase stack" fix works ok as a stop-gap, but we can't really 8x everything just for boredom.

diana_coman: mircea_popescu, from keccak's pov there is no meaning to the input so I don't quite see what you mean there

bvt: i.e. like this http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/k88Le/?raw=true

diana_coman: trinque, bvt put clearly what I was trying to say: here I have the same: the full directory structure inside /cuntoo/portage/profiles

trinque: this is an interesting clue. I'll be back shortly

bvt: i.e. there is really directory structure /cuntoo/portage/profiles/root/cuntoo/build/...

bvt: i confirm that it is both in genesis and is a valid path. i'm testing live cuntoo though, have no access to bootstrap env currently

trinque: i.e. one that physically exists on disk?

mircea_popescu: ah, i vaguely recalled we had two of them, one bit the other byte.

bvt: something like i.e. /cuntoo/portage/profiles/root/cuntoo/build/usr/portage/profiles/features/musl/use.mask

diana_coman: i.e. there isn't yet a bit-level keccak implemented, no

bvt: trinque: i also confirm that under /cuntoo/portage/profiles there is a directory structure that corresponds to my bootstrap environment

diana_coman: apparently vdiff is correct after all and there is this thing it sees - it just took me a bit to find it as I thought it was just a misplaced path rather than...the actual thing,huh

diana_coman: yes, that one is there; but I don't see the path that vdiff seems to see

diana_coman: trinque, I'm trying here to even *see* this "profiles/" path in any other way than in the vpatch but so far no luck

mod6: Ok, I'm gonna shutdown the cuntoo box, and boot my original gentoo ssd (where I built cuntoo from). I'll see what I can find out from the genesis.vpatch thing.

a111: Logged on 2018-12-03 21:48 diana_coman: hm, if it's indeed the tmp thing, it might be worth a try to press vtools to current leaf (i.e. vtools_tempfile_standalone or _notmp) and see if that cures it; my archive contains pressed vtools to ksum patch only, not further

trinque: diana_coman: I'm running again with a vdiff pressed to http://btcbase.org/patches/vtools_ksum per http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1878057 ☝︎