BingoBoingo: So next year will be 3 months to sync, 2018 4 months, 2019 5 months etc.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: well... i would say 50^ of these two months are roughly due to the last year or so. so basically we'll be seeing +1 month / year indefinitely, as blocks can't get any fuller.
mircea_popescu: by which math, quoite, 6 in 2020, 12 in 2026, two years by 2038 (when something or the other will be fixed in boost, apud satoshi)
BingoBoingo: At least this gives a reasonable target of 2020-2026 for less shitty block verifier
pete_dushenski: i literally spent the last 3 hours in channel, typing away, wondering why assbot wasn't picking up my links, totally unawares that i hadn't voiced myself. that's some kind of new low.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: It appears you failed the development history portion of your comprehensive exam. Must retake.
assbot: An historical timeline of The Real Bitcoin (TRB) development, part ii. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... (
http://bit.ly/1PrH83l )
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell ben_vulpes you'll be pleased to find your trb history prominently linked in part ii :)
pete_dushenski: or maybe ben will be choked that i only mentioned him on the shitty part of the history thus far, who knows
pete_dushenski: anyways, small updates made as per asciilifeform's several suggestions
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Anyways the way comprehensive exams work is you gotta rewrite the thing either over the summer term or next semester from scratch. Hopefully before you next write for the comprehensive exam you read code.
BingoBoingo: But props to pete_dushenski for trying to write for the comprehensive exam at this time.
pete_dushenski: i did read come, while some of it made sense, much was chinese. but having gone through the process undoubtedly gave me the tools needed to launch my own public node. so there's that.
assbot: Pieter Wuille: "Opt-in RBF is not theft. It's indicating that you're not sure whether what you're submitting is the final form of the transaction" WTF ?!? : btc ... (
http://bit.ly/1JmAD5A )
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 14:40:51; mircea_popescu: that once the current version being worked upon is released, we all do a whole-source scouring of spaces, and sign the independently generated results, which will be an immediate, other patch.
assbot: An historical timeline of The Real Bitcoin (TRB) development, part ii. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... (
http://bit.ly/1JmEa3H )
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> Dec 22 17:01:42 <mircea_popescu>Iin other news, "blocks" : 182731, << same system is now "blocks" : 347914. << almost there!
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> if only we had larger blocks. << srsly right?
mod6: pete_dushenski: if I may be so bold, Sir: Some helpful info you may find in the monthly statements from the foundation.
mircea_popescu: <BingoBoingo> pete_dushenski: Anyways the way comprehensive exams work is you gotta rewrite the thing either over the summer term or next semester from scratch. Hopefully before you next write for the comprehensive exam you read code. << word.
BingoBoingo merely offering these comments so that at some point in the future members of our cult may be able to unironically honor each other with the title Doktor
mod6: mircea_popescu: thanks for taking the time to search through the code today and write it up.
mircea_popescu: "I still haven't found anyone that is asking for RBF." << pretty muchg the definitive word on that derpage.
mircea_popescu: there is exactly 0 demang for all the crap these dudes keep trying to paint as "innovation".
mircea_popescu: i understand that they have no option, being unable to do anything and ambitious enough to want to be seen doing things. nevertheless.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> wtf is rbf ? << Yet another weirdo script for double spending unconfirmed transactions with a higher fee. Only pheature is being more polite than just doing it as has always been possible
mircea_popescu: mod6 it wasn't that bad. but there's 1-200 man-hours in there easy going through all those cases and justifying them. not to mention that the ones that will need rewriting most llikely amount to two or three total rewrites of the codebase anyway.
mircea_popescu: but such are the father's pistols. if only he were less of a drunk.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform rbf aka "replace by fee" is a nutty idea of peter todd that got a sour treatment hre a whole ago, but for incomprfehensible reasons, let's say, managed to obtain wuile's support.
pete_dushenski: mod6: i actually found the monthly really very helpful, and i'm sure that i'll continue to find them of value. they're essential resources for shallowing out the steep learning curve :)
mircea_popescu: or otherwise we could say the reasons are thoroughly comprehensible as they are reprehensible and just hang the lot.
mircea_popescu: the way this works is that i can say "take this and pay bob and keep a cent" and then later come and say "take this and pay alice instead and keep two cents", making the later guaranteed to overtake the former.
mod6: 602 instances of numeric wizardy, yup. lot to track down there. but, thanks again. it needed doing.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in a sane mempool scheme, a 2 cent payment does not guaranteedly remove a 1 cent one from the mempool.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: i can definitely say that the trb history is adding to ~my~ confusion, but i don't see that as something to be avoided. my hope is that i'll eventually make enough sense of this to relay it concisely to others. still much work to do, no doubt.
mircea_popescu: but you know, the miners will implement whatever pr-derps tell them to!111
mircea_popescu: because "important personalities and leaders of bitcoin" and whatnot.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: i read the patches, though admittedly little code. i'm probably not even competent enough to need gas mask though, so no worries. amor fati.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Much to be said for the learning value of patch by hand in addition to doing V-presses
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 22:07:22; adlai: ok. is there another conf anytime soon?
mircea_popescu: soo... apparently most of medium's visitors are from... india. and brazil.
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: true enough. relatedly, 'tevye' is now running like a champ, keeping up with even asciilifeform's s00perbalticn0de. the difference ? aws banhammer.
pete_dushenski: possibly or not possibly, it's the only thing i changed between yesterday and today. and the lag is gone.
mod6: Everything looks ok to me. When not specifying a highs or lows flag, txn went through just fine no malleation. When '-lows' flag was passed, txn went through just fine, no malleation. WHen the '-highs' flag was passed, txns were malleated, as expected.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, and unrelatedly to the "magic numbers" avenue of trb improvement : one obvious anbd cheap hardening for trb would be to allow the user control of entropy source.
mircea_popescu: it is plainly inconceivable anyone uses a wallet for payments and doesn't do this.
mod6: So yep, pretty much same results as yesterday, althought it is noteable that not passing any flag at all ; no txns were dropped on the floor. They wern't malleated yesterdayr either, so it could have just been lots of spam yesterday or something similar.
mircea_popescu: well... we also have to eval the new scp251 or w/e package.
mircea_popescu: mod6 spam is roughly 2x what it was yest. only 6.4k or so txn, vs 9k yest, however 65+mb worth
mircea_popescu: now of course, what exactly is the mempool as far as each node is concerned varies, and the miner's nodes especially. so it's an iffy thing. anyway.
mod6: re: entropy topic, perhaps ya, we can do something like this when we have a crypto lib 'eh?
mircea_popescu: mod6 i don't think we can not read the wtf is that thing called
assbot: Logged on 19-12-2015 22:12:24; asciilifeform: IF I CAN'T READ IT IN AN EVENING it is a turd
mircea_popescu: " Bitcoin is described by enthusiasts as potentially being bigger than the Internet itself (a claim I can’t seem to understand, considering that Bitcoin is an Internet-powered technology),"
mats: why nobody is talking about how usg is actively violating .sy sovereignty, idk
mats: int'l law: for other people that are not usg.
BingoBoingo: post updated. Forgot to close it with "Sorry for your loss"
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 405.87, vol: 8766.54447752 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 406.332, vol: 8124.70728 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 405.69, vol: 27213.50172144 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 395.0, vol: 4.64326783 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 411.16152, vol: 79649.22250000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 407.44999, vol: 777.80560536 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 415.494947755, vol: 110.20573996 | Volume-weighted last (1 more message)
adlai: trinque: deedbot- constipated again?
mats: asciilifeform: whats with this dpaste? dropped characters, spelling errors abound
☟︎ trinque: adlai: its behind was behind when I checked a few minutes ago
trinque: was gagging on orphans, and now is processing blocks after retarting btcd
☟︎ trinque: adlai: deed should crap when it catches up; if it doesn't I'll be back later to kick it some more
trinque: that would not surprise me
adlai: trinque: thank you for checking
adlai recommends people read the last submission... rediscovered it while browsing a bathroom bookshelf
adlai: for the classically-challenged lurkers: it's the last chapter of The Once and Future King, by T. H. White
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform amusingly, the whole shebang's not worth 10mn.
mircea_popescu: <mats> int'l law: for other people that are not usg. << it's widely reported in ru and chinese. "everyone"
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 02:01:27; mats: asciilifeform: whats with this dpaste? dropped characters, spelling errors abound
mircea_popescu: does anyone want CPU: 2 x Intel E5645 6x2x2.4GHz; RAM: 96GB; 8x180GB SSD for any purpose ?
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 13:38:10; mircea_popescu: SPACE ALLIGNMENT!!!1 who! why! jesus.
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: it should be possible to test them before purchase, right?
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 13:39:59; asciilifeform: i'd happily see the whole shebang reformatted, but this would destroy v-ability
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: to vendor: "if this is the real deal it should be able to run this program [include ascii file here], if it fries, I'm not buying it."
BingoBoingo: whitespace is all about fits in eyes, not head
ben_vulpes: consistency of code shape is a thing for mortals like myself
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: so how do I run a program on one of these things without a socket connection?
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: Isn't the whole purpose of an FPGA that I can program it in place?
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 13:56:38; mircea_popescu: it's bad enough in a project. in a same file it's insufferable.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes meh. they're equally stupid, but shouldn't get in the way of anything.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: btw why do you prefer tabs to 4 spaces?
mod6: mircea_popescu: qq, would you be alright with this error message, as opposed to yours which has a line number in it: printf("ERROR, ECDSA_sign failed in key.h:Sign()");
mod6 is a bit worried that we may have to additionally maintain possible changing line numbers.
mod6: ok cool. I think an error like that narrows it down pretty good.
mircea_popescu: (you have to understand - in principle, the extra maintenance is a mark of both fit in headness and "we really read these patches")
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: it isn't like they're being used for something useful anywhere else.
mod6: mircea_popescu: ya, not a bad thing at all. but yeah, maybe eventually we move to that once the source "cools down" so to speak.
mircea_popescu shudders at the simple count of how many return fail; there are that don't say anything else.
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: To be clear, the part # for this is: XC6216-2HQ240C?
gribble: Current Blocks: 394385 | Current Difficulty: 1.1335429980147113E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 395135 | Next Difficulty In: 750 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 5 days, 1 hour, 37 minutes, and 17 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
mod6: ok i see what my hangup is.
mod6: it pretty much applies the same, and if then I do a vdiff of a/bitcoin/src/key.h to b/bitcoin/src/key.h (where Mr. P.'s patch was applied in b/.../) then the diff looks the same.
mod6: only problem here is, it adds in spaces instead of tabs
mod6: so then if I go line by line adding tabs instead of the spaces, i get a bit of a different vdiff output as such:
mircea_popescu: mod6 really you shouldn't do this manually, just s/ /\t/
jurov: mod6 and why not "failed at" #__LINE__ "in" #__FILE__
mod6: <+jurov> mod6 and why not "failed at" #__LINE__ "in" #__FILE__ << sounds good to me, can you give me a full example so I don't screw this up, ive never used tat before.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 really you shouldn't do this manually, just s/ /\t/ << lemme try with this. thx.
jurov: the example i gave is pretty much complete. and you ought to experiment with it
jurov: maybe __FILE__ gives full path, i don't remember, then it's not very desirable
mircea_popescu: simply gets replaced wit hthe right numbers pre compile time
jurov: but __LINE__ should be used in any case, and # causes it to be treated as string
mod6: oh boy this is obnoxious.
mod6: maybe i need to go line by line and do it all by hand.
jurov: if you go ahead with tabs, do you want lxr to ignore whitespace changes in diffs?
mod6: <+jurov> the example i gave is pretty much complete. and you ought to experiment with it << would this work? : printf("ERROR, ECDSA_sign failed at #__LINE__ in #__FILE__\n");
jurov: for me it was amusing to see the amount of bile spent on that
jurov: mod6 yes that should work
mod6: ima leave that out for now.
jurov: mod6 ^ that was answer to my lxr q?
mod6: ah, now. im gonna leave the #__LINE__ #__FILE__ thing out.
mod6: i gotta figure out how to get this patch exactly correct. can't seem to do it.
jurov: what are you doing?
jurov: if your're applying s/ /\t/ straight to the diff, that won't work, the format does require space after + or -
mod6: no not straight to the diff.
mod6: basically, im trying to get my +/- to look like mr. p.'s. but i can't seem to achieve that.
mod6: after i apply his patch, there are no tabs, only spaces.
mod6: and when I replace :293,331 s/ /\t/ it basically ends up looking like this:
mod6: who knew that creating the patch would be harder than the code itself.
jurov: yes this is the wrong approach, you ended up with +\t there
jurov: why can't you replace with tabs *before* running diff?
mod6: huh, dunno, guess i could try that.
jurov: also, looks like you replaced only first " " in line anyway
jurov: s/ /\t/g replaces all occurences but best solution is to set vim (or any editor) to use only tabs
jurov: (or whatever equivalent your editor does)
mod6: <+mod6> huh, dunno, guess i could try that. << failed to patch
jurov: meh, i'm like... let them have their whitespace/style holy wars, they'll learn someday
jurov: if mod6 learns to set up his editor to emit consistent kind of whitespace, then today was not wasted
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38052 @ 0.00056605 = 21.5393 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57900 @ 0.00055795 = 32.3053 BTC [-] {2}
trinque: thestringpuller │ trinque: y u no use trb? << it's in the works.
trinque: looks like that'll happen in about 40k blox
mircea_popescu: <mod6> after i apply his patch, there are no tabs, only spaces. << i made a tab'd one, then asciilifeform wanted a different one so i made that too. which are you looking at ?
mircea_popescu: or what, we discover dpaste auto-fucks-up the tabs anyway
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 256700 @ 0.0005584 = 143.3413 BTC [+] {5}
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> or what, we discover dpaste auto-fucks-up the tabs anyway << im starting to wonder...
mod6: but I didn't apply that one, just the second.
mod6: lemme see on that one.
mod6: yah, second one has no tabs at all.
mircea_popescu: heh. so i try to use inept merchant. inept merchant doesn't take bitcoin, but takes a variety of bullshit "payment processors", one of which "payza". i go whatever, they pop up a 0.04blabla btc, which i pay. turns out THEY WON'T PROCESS the payment they advertised until you "verify", ie click on some link in email. so i do. turns out they still won't process the payment they advertised, untill you... fill a form. so i
mircea_popescu: fill a form. turns out they... STILL won't process the payment they advertised, unti... you upload "documents". and they'll send your bitcoin back, of course. ALSO after you upload "documents".
mircea_popescu: consequently, ikf anyone wants a payza account with 16 bux in it, it's crap@trilema.com, gangbangA1, and 12345678 "pin" w/e the shit that is.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes yeah, totally so very clever they'll spend thousands of dollars to dig themselves out of this pr hole and wonder why it dun work.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79600 @ 0.0005574 = 44.369 BTC [-] {2}
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell pete_dushenski also, considering a jeep cherokee or a toyota land cruiser of 2000 and 89 vintage for babywagon, any thoughts on either?
ben_vulpes: goals being low tco, ease of finding parts and cost of maintenance hours.
mircea_popescu: mod6 2nd one is deliberately made to not have tabs so as not to offend alf's diff.
assbot: An historical timeline of The Real Bitcoin (TRB) development, part ii. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... (
http://bit.ly/1RXE2uA )
mircea_popescu: 18<asciilifeform> but this is an astonishing waste of time imho << is it me or is this tack exactly opposite of what you were saying 6 hours ago ?!
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 13:39:24; asciilifeform: idiocy is ~contagious~
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 13:39:59; asciilifeform: i'd happily see the whole shebang reformatted, but this would destroy v-ability
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 00:51:59; asciilifeform: somebody here (ben_vulpes?) even learned cpp just for the occasion.
mircea_popescu: you don't have to read anything. apparently you don't even read the log lines!
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 14:40:51; mircea_popescu: that once the current version being worked upon is released, we all do a whole-source scouring of spaces, and sign the independently generated results, which will be an immediate, other patch.
mircea_popescu: it's absolutely machine-verifiable, you also get some people's signatures, what's the problem.
ben_vulpes: 'scouring of spaces' means the tab-replacement?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24918 @ 0.0005574 = 13.8893 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: WHY NOT WRITE A STYLE GUIDE WHILE WE'RE AT IT
☟︎ mircea_popescu: barrier to coding should properly be "is willing to :retab back and forth forever because idiocy is contagious and we gotta argue all sides of any point".
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform one day your "idiocy is contagious and fixing it a collosal waste of time and i've changed my mind and wah wah" thing'll land you in the soup.
mircea_popescu: this is not what you said, neither at the first juncture, nor at the 2nd juncture.
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 02:06:34; trinque: was gagging on orphans, and now is processing blocks after retarting btcd
BingoBoingo: Sounds like other arm could use papercut too, but cranked up to 11
trinque: ben_vulpes: whatwhatwhat ?
ben_vulpes: i set you on the btcd snipe hunt aeons ago iirc
mod6: so this is what i'm gonna do
mod6: im gonna add the code to key.h by hand.
mod6: then im gonna add tabs infront of all the non-empty lines in Sign()
mod6: and we'll go from there.
trinque: ben_vulpes: now it's stuck on a block 1-2 back, because reasons
trinque: and so shall I, gnite #b-a
mod6: if you do a pull of that patch (be sure to obviously run dos2unix on it to get rid of CRLF), you should see that all of the lines in key.h:Sign() have tabs in front of them.
mod6: i guess we can pick this up tomorrow, or whenever.
mod6: i apprecaite you all trying to help me.
ben_vulpes: i may simply be exhausted, but i don't see immediately how the code inside the two branches is supposed to work
mod6: let's do fLowS first.
ben_vulpes: i get the conditional branching on the flag, but now how the identical code in the branches enforces high/low-s-ness
mod6: fLowS = true, order = 100000, halforder = 50000 (hence rshift1), and sig->s = 40000
mod6: then this line: (BN_cmp(sig->s, halforder) > 0) will return -1 since 40000 < 50000
mod6: and we do nothing, sig->s is already low.
mod6: fLowS = true, order = 100000, halforder = 50000 (hence rshift1), and sig->s = 60000
mod6: (BN_cmp(sig->s, halforder) > 0) evaluates to 1 since 60000 > 50000
mod6: then we do this line:
mod6: BN_sub(sig->s, order, sig->s);
mod6: [ which is defined as : int BN_sub(BIGNUM *r, const BIGNUM *a, const BIGNUM *b); BN_sub() subtracts b from a and places the result in r ("r=a-b"). ]
mod6: so we have: sig->s is assigned to 10000 - 60000 ; sig->s now = 40000
mod6: i'll note the code is not *identical* it does have different greater than, less than signs.
ben_vulpes: forgive further derpitude, but how on earth does `BN_CTX_get(ctx)` return two different values?
mod6: etc, there are man pages for each.
mod6: ok, so did the first and second case for fLowS make sense then?
ben_vulpes: need to read more. let's revisit tomorrow.
mod6: i'll type this out anyway.
mod6: so now on to fHighS
mod6: fHighS = true, order = 100000, halforder = 50000 (hence rshift1), and sig->s = 60000
mod6: then this part: (BN_cmp(sig->s, halforder) < 0) will return 1 since 60000 > 50000
mod6: and we do nothing, sig->s is already high
mod6: fHighS = true, order = 100000, halforder = 50000 (hence rshift1), and sig->s = 40000
mod6: then this part: (BN_cmp(sig->s, halforder) < 0) will return -1 since 40000 < 50000
mod6: then we jump into the if block and execu:
mod6: BN_sub(sig->s, order, sig->s);
mod6: again [ which is defined as : int BN_sub(BIGNUM *r, const BIGNUM *a, const BIGNUM *b); BN_sub() subtracts b from a and places the result in r ("r=a-b"). ]
mod6: so we have: sig->s = 100000 - 40000.
mod6: sig->s == 60000 (or "high")
gribble: Error: "ticker--market" is not a valid command.
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 399.37, vol: 10882.56721678 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 400.3, vol: 8384.13004 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 397.5, vol: 36247.56345948 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 382.2, vol: 6.22430836 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 399.00304, vol: 88223.39620000 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 414.544176, vol: 125.53458151 | Volume-weighted last average: 398.740525367
ben_vulpes: fucking pointers and in place mutation
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33850 @ 0.00055963 = 18.9435 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: AND NOW I BLESS THEE WITH THE HOLY BIGNUM THIS FUNCTION PASSES ALL AROUND ITSELF
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 415 @ 0.00263136 = 1.092 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57067 @ 0.00055677 = 31.7732 BTC [-] {3}
ben_vulpes: "As always when a large group of people without prior exposure to Jace are introduced to his world, every single existing theory on his authenticity was brought up and discussed in great detail, as were questions concerning the state of mental health care in the United States, the situation of veterans, and the practicality of using a Prius in a street race." << ladies and gentlemen, i present...my peers in the eyes of american law.
BingoBoingo just stumbled upon this lulz catalog yesterday after getting my quarterly fix of CWC updates
ben_vulpes: "the reason why cops call it the web is because, The online is a 'Web' of lies and/or Computers are Satans kingdom on earth"
BingoBoingo: Basically Ironman's that movie where batman finally spends enough Hodl to build a suit that lets him do all the things superman does
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 401 @ 0.00263798 = 1.0578 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53500 @ 0.0005567 = 29.7835 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: Goat Rentals Take Off In Seattle On First Day Of Amazon Home Services | KUOW News and Information ... (
http://bit.ly/20itWpe )
danielpbarron: >> The Nadi tights, which were announced at CES and will be available for pre-sale in May, can survive up to 25 washes. << planned obsolescence, now for pants!
punkman: you know there are clothes that can survive 0 washes
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 158150 @ 0.00055619 = 87.9614 BTC [-] {4}
punkman: "The OnCare™ LiftSeat® Powered Toilet Lift™ features LiftTek™ core assistive technology" "patent-pending drop-in commode bucket"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24700 @ 0.00055672 = 13.751 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43650 @ 0.00055903 = 24.4017 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31250 @ 0.00055672 = 17.3975 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37350 @ 0.00055704 = 20.8054 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49600 @ 0.00055751 = 27.6525 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 04:16:03; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: my objection was to the notion of reading 600kB patches of spaces-to-tabs-every-line
mircea_popescu: my one question, and not to mod6 in particular, is : can unsigned int nSize = ECDSA_size(pkey); be trusted to not fuck up the size ?
mircea_popescu: and also, since we're taking out memcpy(&vchSig[0], pchSig, nSize); in favour of, from what i understand, unsigned char *pos = &vchSig[0]; are these actually and in fact equivalent ?
☟︎ mircea_popescu: especially after hanging out here i trust c++ about as much as php with these sorts of things
mircea_popescu: the wisdom seems to be that "don't fucking memcpy by hand, the compiler inlines (or even register-moves) most assignments itself and unlike you it fucking knows when to do it", but hey.
mircea_popescu: i can't help myself but suspect there may have been a good reason for the weird, even given the immense piles of pointless insanity scattered throughout the code.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21600 @ 0.00055695 = 12.0301 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: "If there is someone at this point who can look at Jace's insane rambling during this event and take it as a credible threat to Brianna Wu's life, they are either willfully misconstruing the facts or being intentionally alarmist to the point of complete credibility loss. " mno. they are being obtuse to the point of well adjusted, functioning ustard. how the fuck else does anything work in that country ? look at a dumb
mircea_popescu: lazy kid and write down "student", look at a weirdo babbling and write down "threat report", the whole meta-state survives out of categorical confusion of this sort.
mircea_popescu: "The number of video views rose to almost 40,000 within a day" << sigh. this is notable in what fucking alt-world ? i remember the earlier days of "omaigerd teh interwebs matter" when the numbers destined to impress the reader were in the millions. by now it's as if "consensus" has been achieved around the proposition that such a statement is impressive period, and the number's irrelevant. 40k people viewed every singl
mircea_popescu: e fucking concrete support in every town that has a subway that same day. what of it!
mircea_popescu: "On GamerGhazi, comments explaining that Jace was little more than an elaborate hoax were deleted, because they did not fit Wu's harassment narrative." <doh.
mircea_popescu: Steevo moaned, “I can’t even afford a pizza for the wife and kid on Friday night << the depth of the fucking disconnect. i wouldn't even eat what he calls pizza, if it were free. in fact i'd have serious compunction giving it to some begging dude.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58350 @ 0.00056236 = 32.8137 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: in other news : the title for stealing the highest traffic website doesn't go to the derps you'd expect, but to the russkis equivalent.
http://jw.org gribble: Error: "ANSWER" is not a valid command.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22000 @ 0.00056678 = 12.4692 BTC [+] {2}
shinohai: also known as the creepy people that stalk you in city subway terminals hawking magazines.
shinohai: Does that apply to all proselytizing though?
mircea_popescu: supposedly 4chan accepts bitcoin payments.... except when you go to pay them, they take paypal and the ccs. what sorta bs is this, are these people living in 2011 or somesuch ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13836 @ 0.00056535 = 7.8222 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: also someone tell newstarget.com that hostgator is stealing their 404s
PeterL: Biotech scientists now raising human–animal chimeras on U.S. farms ... << wasn't there already a thread about sheepfucking?
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> my one question, and not to mod6 in particular, is : can unsigned int nSize = ECDSA_size(pkey); be trusted to not fuck up the size ? << Not very "warm and fuzzy" on the openssl trust factor either. Would some tests or debugging help around this part?
mircea_popescu: the problem with tests is that you can't test for something not happening.
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43900 @ 0.00056372 = 24.7473 BTC [-] {3}
mod6: !up ascii_butugychag
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 14:57:50; mircea_popescu: lots of bunnies grew ears on their back etc
ascii_butugychag: in exactly the same sense that man who eats chicken is not a man-chicken chimera.
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 12:42:36; mircea_popescu: and also, since we're taking out memcpy(&vchSig[0], pchSig, nSize); in favour of, from what i understand, unsigned char *pos = &vchSig[0]; are these actually and in fact equivalent ?
mircea_popescu: memcpy(&vchSig[0], pchSig, nSize); << so this takes nsize bytes from pchsig and copies them over where vchsig lies.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: unsigned char *pos = &vchSig[0]; << this takes the pointer pos and points it to what vchsig is
☟︎ mircea_popescu: my question is : are these two in fact equivalent. because we can end up with surprises in this sort of change.
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 15:49:10; mircea_popescu: memcpy(&vchSig[0], pchSig, nSize); << so this takes nsize bytes from pchsig and copies them over where vchsig lies.
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 15:49:34; mircea_popescu: unsigned char *pos = &vchSig[0]; << this takes the pointer pos and points it to what vchsig is
mircea_popescu: ok but aren't they intended to be functionally equivalent by the patch ?
mircea_popescu: from what i hear from people who'd know, tis a common affliction.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, the bit is in the horse's mouth : trb will be more read than wrot.
ascii_butugychag: (there is supposed to be a snow fall tonight in this part of the world, train stations will close, etc)
mircea_popescu: someone should someday write the anthropological study about the impact of katrina in the media. it's when derping pointlessly about the weather went from ridiculous to social expectation.
kakobrekla: since when do trains stop working if its snowing?
ascii_butugychag: i would have ignored it but there was much noise about preemptive closing of the trains
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla since the infrastructure hasn'\t been maintained in 30 years.
ascii_butugychag: (no word on whether obamitler is buttoned up inside or went off to the tropics)
ascii_butugychag: (you need not only snow but rails that aren't traversed regularly)
thestringpuller: ascii_butugychag: shouldn't you be at home. you don't want to get stranded in the uranium mines.
PeterL: what does DC get, like a half an inch at a time and they shut down? Up north here we don't blink at a foot of snow.
ascii_butugychag: PeterL: normally. result is that the place is grossly underequipped for anything like reasonable snow, and traffic grinds to a halt
PeterL: y'all are a bunch of pansies, afraid of a bit of snow
thestringpuller: PeterL: You guys have more than 1 snowplow for the whole state.
thestringpuller: PeterL: your roads are also the worst thing to drive on ever.
PeterL: just don't drink the water if you are driving through Flint
ascii_butugychag: doesn't help that d.c. roads are packed to 110% even without any snow or rain etc
ascii_butugychag: as for why they'd close the trains, i cannot say except that the latter are in a historic state of disrepair.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41798 @ 0.00055672 = 23.2698 BTC [-] {2}
ascii_butugychag: and dc metro dept. pulls interesting tricks - retains ~half the staff actually needed so that the remaining can work mandatory overtime and earn ~200K-usd
mircea_popescu: PeterL> y'all are a bunch of pansies, afraid of a bit of snow << ho i knew took a (well earned) vacation to morocco in the middle of the carpathian winter once. her fondest memory was that there was a tiny bit of snow just as she got ou of the bus, and everyone in sight was on their ass. "they have no idea how to walk on snow, the africans!"
PeterL: is that terminal as in cancer or terminal as in computer, or as in train station?
terminal: I'm a guy who's thinking about buying a significant amount of ETH
assbot: Logged on 19-01-2016 13:40:52; *: adlai notes, as a humorous aside, that someday there needs to be a rock-off between PeterL and PeterR
assbot: Logged on 19-01-2016 13:41:39; mircea_popescu: lol no idea ? your isomer ?
terminal: I'm a software developer who is interested in the ecosystem, I see a lot of practicality in ethereum. Mostly I'm just looking for longterm gains
mircea_popescu: terminal well, get in the wot and let us know how your trade went as far as long term gains.
terminal: Why the negative sentiment about ethereum here?
punkman: terminal: just salty that we didn't buy mp's cheap eth
☟︎☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26700 @ 0.00056678 = 15.133 BTC [+] {2}
AdrianG: ethereum could have short-term momentum due to investors interest, its far more preferable to mention it in corporate pitches vs bitcoin.
thestringpuller: that's because investors seem to be borderline scandalous these days.
assbot: The woes of Altcoin, or why there is no such thing as "cryptocurrencies" on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... (
http://bit.ly/1fsGWG5 )
thestringpuller: Bitcoin isn't yieling what they have come to expect, so lets through fiat at Ehtereum and see what happens.
mircea_popescu: AdrianG if what you aim is to make money out of the vc circus, you're very much in the wrong spot.
mircea_popescu: like every fashion-driven scam, gotta keep ahead of the wavefront, not sit behind.
AdrianG: i remember at the peak of btc 2013 heights, litecoin was something around 11% of the btc marketcap
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: guess that's how TaT made bank on the ASICMINER scam.
AdrianG: some spillover is inevitable
mircea_popescu: heh, the usg can't afford to throw away half a bil just for this.
thestringpuller: AdrianG: if you are trying to extract fiat profits from Bitcoin, you've got some learnin' to do.
AdrianG: thestringpuller: as for bitcoin not doing what investors expect, ethereum can be shoehorned into their needs much more easily
mircea_popescu: the only problem with their "needs" is that their needs are a certain path to their own doom.
AdrianG: thestringpuller: good is subjective. its just a perception.
thestringpuller: AdrianG: there is sanity and insanity. You don't try to run a business with insanit expecting it to function.
thestringpuller: Most Bitcoin VC cirus shows are like watching a very long episode of the Profit without Marcus Lemonis.
AdrianG: why is using something like ethereum insanity?
AdrianG: thestringpuller: he's just very skinny
thestringpuller: They said that about Dib from Invader Zim and he obviously didn't amount to much.
AdrianG: mircea_popescu: i think a programmable ledger has legitimate uses. unfortunately for ethereum holders, those ledgers are going to be private and inaccessible from outside.
AdrianG: banks are drowning in legacy code. anything that helps them to move away from it is useful.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19100 @ 0.00056679 = 10.8257 BTC [+]
AdrianG: even as just an experiment, really.
mircea_popescu: malformed, dysfunctional, self-contradictory, defeated propositions aren't better than the currently chosen broken one. the broken one hasn't been chosen on technical merit.
AdrianG: what makes you so certain it has no uses whatsoever?
mircea_popescu: this is exactly why all the "oh, bitcoin needs x" "oh, bitcoin must or else Y will" bla bla is meaningless.
thestringpuller: AdrianG: you're failing to realize how terminal the system is right now.
AdrianG: thestringpuller: i never argued against that.
mircea_popescu: take your window, on the presumption that you are currently located in a room with one. this window of yours COULD be used as a door, to a larger degree than ethereum could be used to anything.
mircea_popescu: neveretheless... have you used it as a door ? will you ?
thestringpuller: AdrianG: Yes but you are arguing for trying to teach a sickly man to learn how to dunk a basketball.
AdrianG: why do you guys only speak in strawmen?
☟︎ AdrianG: cryptographically signed txn ledger will simplify parts of audits
AdrianG: they can just basically automate a lot of regulatory compliance and cut out humans
mircea_popescu: of course, the other way to automate regulatory bs is to ignore it until it goes away.
PeterL: <AdrianG> cryptographically signed txn ledger will simplify parts of audits << why do they need etherum for this? just sign bits of the normal ledger as they are made, why do you need to involve cryptocurrency?
AdrianG: PeterL: it would have nothing to do with cryptocurrency ofc.
AdrianG: ethereum as a cryptocurrency itself is probably useless.
AdrianG: PeterL: it would be just a private instance, or a federated peg at best.
AdrianG: and signing the normal ledger, is just a small part, programmability gives you a lot more flexibility to code business logic in.
thestringpuller: AdrianG: how does this not differ from: "it works by ben_vulpes, sultan of brunei, and king of saud, sending each other pgpgrams with signed chits of how many tonnes of plutonium each owes the other."
AdrianG: thestringpuller: it differs in that an implementation already exists.
thestringpuller: except ethereum assumes all individuals in a contract act as machines. Better yet why not make them all machines!
mircea_popescu: AdrianG implementation is not per se valuable, for the sad reason that it is much cheaper to write code than to read it.
AdrianG: mircea_popescu: people tend to re-use existing stuff.
mircea_popescu: anyone in business will prefer to write de novo rather than audit the dubious code of the crowd of idiot kids gathered around that buteriun dude.
mircea_popescu: it's a delusion, born fundamentally out of a lack of business experience.
AdrianG: banks' software depends on thousands of libraries written by random hobos
AdrianG: it wouldnt be anything new
thestringpuller: AdrianG: actually it's mostly a lot of java/vb code written by indian d00ds.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller he's technically correct, they just stole it and delivered it, but anyway.
thestringpuller: i've invested in hobos. not really an investment as much as charity.
AdrianG: thestringpuller: sure, random indian d00ds
AdrianG: its not qualitatively different from code written by random hobos
mircea_popescu: better investment than chasing cephaloids' dubious fortunes at mit.
PeterL: does trb debug.log grow infinitely?
☟︎ punkman: PeterL: it compacts on startup iirc
PeterL: so should I do something to it while it is running?
assbot: Invalid verfication string.
punkman: PeterL: I guess you could rotate the log
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: i've been wondering, what the nazi variant of 'v' might look like
ascii_butugychag: or does it even make sense to suppose that usg uses anything of the kind
punkman: probably involves smartcards?
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag ever met a govt employee that welcomed accountability ?
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: no, but i've met hordes who just ~loved~ faux-accountability
mircea_popescu: well... as much as a car without combustion as possible.
jurov: they do try at NASA, but they do it in meritocracy way
jurov: i.e. ennumerating mistakes, not people
mircea_popescu: lol, because mistakes, rather than people, are finite. gg.
jurov: dunno about funding, but it's nice example to avoiding accountability
mircea_popescu: i still recall the feynman conundrum. to me it's the archetype for this.
ascii_butugychag: it is not enough, for a classic bureaucrat, to avoid accountability; he has to put in scar tissue that gives the appearance thereof
trinque: ascii_butugychag: sounds like a centralized CVS/SVN repo where sigs "vote" for what constitutes the master branch
jurov: oh i meant pirely software development
jurov: no idea about possiblility of signing hardware
mircea_popescu privately bets alfie will mention the three russian stooges thing.
mircea_popescu: seeing how the men in question were unfortunate to die befgore the bible.
mircea_popescu: i suppose in the future there will be the principal cause of war :
mircea_popescu: different branches in the wot disputing which earlier node to be credited with x.
PeterL: can we has !wot <nick> where the links get sent from assbot to <nick> instead of dumping in chan?
PeterL: proly want to limit the number of times assbot responds to stop spam vector?
mircea_popescu: but if you';re sick of seeing it you should be able to config your client to ignore that line.
terminal2: I've never had a GPG key before lol. I will make one tonight. On ETH: While I don't see a reason for established companies to re-use ethereum - I think you need to account for all the companies nerd kids will create ontop of it - which will grow
terminal2: Migrating a DAO off of ethereum would not be an easy thing to do in most cases
PeterL: all the "companies" will be amazing
terminal2: Only takes a couple of breakout successes to make ETH take off I think
mircea_popescu: terminal2 by this reasoning you really should invest in toilets.
terminal2: Don't know anything about ASICMINER
mircea_popescu: think of all the growth the kids will create on top of their parent's food!
terminal2: Toilets would have been great to invest in before they were owned by everyone
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> my one question, and not to mod6 in particular, is : can unsigned int nSize = ECDSA_size(pkey); be trusted to not fuck up the size ? << Just to touch back on this again - I'd like to see more of this. If you happen to be reading through the code, and there is a question, ask - let's discuss.
thestringpuller: terminal2: ASICMINER actually delivered on their IPO, their stock skyrocketed. However due to insane management that seems to be very common in the mining world, the company imploded.
mod6: And 'you' in the sense of all of us. Not just Mr. P.
mod6: I think it's vital that we all gain a good grasp of what the intricacies are in this code - myself included.
mircea_popescu: mod6 the thing is, that 10`000 we took out - while very sensible to be out and belongs out - could very well had been covering up for say an openssl bug.
mircea_popescu: like it or not this is the level of scrutiny that patches have to face, even if it makes develoipment slow.
thestringpuller: well openssl will eventually need to be excised as well, what to replace it with, I don't know.
mircea_popescu: while cutting out crud we could get away with less poring, but as we add / change / etc it becomes ever more problematic.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: wouldn't unit testing coverage prevent some of this from becoming a problem?
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 15:31:49; mircea_popescu: the problem with tests is that you can't test for something not happening.
thestringpuller: If you have expected behavior there should be a way to measure if that behavior changes due to something introduced into the system.
thestringpuller: i don't know in practice how "unknown unknowns" affect the system.
ascii_butugychag: there are exactly three mechanisms known for creating correctness:
ascii_butugychag: 1) fits-in-head. also known popularly as 'knowing precisely wtf you're doing'
trinque: the goddamned deedbot node would not sync no matter what... untli I changed his external IP
ascii_butugychag: trinque: if it's not a seekrit: why does deedbot use a heathen bitcoinatron ?
trinque: because his new trb node is at 152k
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> like it or not this is the level of scrutiny that patches have to face, even if it makes develoipment slow. << i very much agree with this methodology.
mircea_popescu: trinque i suspect this is what drove alf's ideas of you know, deliberate sabotage against trb nodes.
trinque: I have seen ample evidence to suggest it in deedbot's logz
trinque: in related news, deedbot- will be back when I figure out why it can no longer connect to freenode, having only changed his external IP
ascii_butugychag: i suppose the theory is that we are morons, and will conclude that 'trb is broken, can't sync' ?
trinque: ascii_butugychag: was there something else I was supposed to say aside from NICK to get going?
punkman: terminal2: Now everyone has a toilet << not true, and good chance you'll make more money investing in toilets than ETH
ascii_butugychag: it would probably look something like a nagant cylinder turned up
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag incidentally, i suspect you'll find the latest quite very interesting, if you manage to wade through it all.
ascii_butugychag: but really in his harem scenario i'd imagine he would build something more like a horseshoe shape, so the users can face one another
mircea_popescu: so in that sense, my os copies files a lot faster than that.
mircea_popescu: seriously, 10 hours for 100gb ? what is this, maxtor days ?
trinque: well. I certainly didn't change the configuration to get that to connect.. merely the origin
trinque: AWS being the host was certainly a problem.
trinque: he'll be back again shortly
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: that article makes me think of (i entirely forget the source) - approximately - 'every man's life has a time when things were working correctly'
trinque: thestringpuller: yep, though not one I've passed any judgement on yet, other than "is elsewhere"
ascii_butugychag: the observation about 'girl is not annoying because it is a girl' is spot-on
ascii_butugychag: reading mircea_popescu's recollections of the '90s porn set feels a little like another one of my predilections, memoirs of su physics/math folk
mircea_popescu: i don't think anyone sane was seriously thinking the situation may survive. it was painfully obvious we're riding a self-limiting wave.
mircea_popescu: then again, granted, most of those involved were pretty nuts.
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: the observation about 'camgurlz are a magnet for the attention of subhuman bois' seems unsurprising
ascii_butugychag: ... isn't that sorta like 'toilet is a magnet for shit' ? yes, sometimes people plant flowers in one. but speaking as to its purpose.
mircea_popescu: this isn't a castigation of them. but the system is a chute down not a chute up.
mircea_popescu: let's see. suppose a land, fertile but unimproved. to get anything, you have to actually get it.
mircea_popescu: we know this does promote all the industries - people will hunt and make farms, and then need lumber and tv sets.
mircea_popescu: suppose now a desert with small pellet dispensers, where a little food can be had.
mircea_popescu: we know this promotes all the africas - people will sit around and invent ways to insure they don't upset the gods.
mircea_popescu: there is necessarily no ensuring "the gods". just you know, transactional insuring 'em.
ascii_butugychag: because land doesn't actually behave so differently from a food dispenser
mircea_popescu: yet the effects of tiny modulation in environment are indisputably major in the mold that grows out
ascii_butugychag: i'd conjecture that 'africanization' is at its height when the 'food dispenser' ~responds to human buluceala'
ascii_butugychag: (it isn't about whether the pellets are small, as in a zoo, or large, as in a harvest season - but that zoo ~answeres prayers~ and rewards wheedling)
mircea_popescu: consider. the first major invention that "revolutionized" mankind was... agriculture. it reduced the societal bolus from "whole bison, if you get it" to "a fraction of a crop, if you well save it".
mircea_popescu: this reduction similarly took the world from greece to rome, give or take.
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 382.58, Best ask: 382.82, Bid-ask spread: 0.24000, Last trade: 382.6, 24 hour volume: 46720.82048297, 24 hour low: 378.77, 24 hour high: 414.49, 24 hour vwap: None
mircea_popescu: the next one, actual industry, reduced the bolus further (the chinese never developed industry because yes, their goverment had already reduced it to "one bowl of rice")
mircea_popescu: degradation of society generally follows the success of technology in reducing the size of the minimal harvest.
mircea_popescu: which is why we're to expect all sorts of wonders from micropayments ; all of which wonders begin and end with caged ratpeople.
ascii_butugychag: small pellet leads to thinking of next pellet always. as in the professor who described to me how crack is smoked
mircea_popescu: more importantly, small pellet makes it LESS important to live.
mircea_popescu: the hunter didn't fear death ; the farmer feared death only, not drudgery ; the factory worker can't even think death, fears drudgery, not anonymity.
mircea_popescu: then finally the "literate" or "white collar" or however you call the despicable postmodern otaku, intellectuals I suppose ? can't even comprehend drudgery, fears anonimity, i can scarcely look down to see what's next.
ascii_butugychag: why do you suppose just about all of these people kill themselves ?
mircea_popescu: why does it happen to them that they died ? no one knows, for drudgery can't be thought.
ascii_butugychag: i can readily observe at least a subset of things they choose to do, when i find myself readily able to avoid doing them
ascii_butugychag: for instance, drinking yourself into catatonia every friday is optional
mircea_popescu: to quote, " Who needs reasons when you've got heroin?"
mircea_popescu: for me and for the waitress, showing up at the restaurant is optional, right ? and so it is for the cat.
ascii_butugychag: but i find a good bit of what these people do to themselves to be readily optional, at least in the sense that eating one's nagant is optional
mircea_popescu: "the beef is not a playing character for not having escaped from its pen ; the waitress is a playing character for not having escaped from its pen." << shall need some more sandbags. why hate the cow, what, if you prick it does it not bleed ?
ascii_butugychag: i've never seen a human woman land by mistake in a cow pen and end up processed for beef
ascii_butugychag: wasn't it in mircea_popescu's recent article where 'common man must be pumped through a sewer tunnel but oughta have a small escape hatch' ?
mircea_popescu: yeah, well, as a matter of fact some cows do make it out!
thestringpuller: "Apollo astronauts called their urine dumps "The Constellation Urion" and said it was very beautiful."
thestringpuller: SMTP's limit is 99mn terabytes!!!! Why do we need limit on blocksize guise?!?!?
assbot: More Air Force drones are crashing than ever as mysterious new problems emerge - The Washington Post ... (
http://bit.ly/1Pb6qH9 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80150 @ 0.00056996 = 45.6823 BTC [+] {4}
thestringpuller: Ugh. Can Roger Ver just go the fuck away, this prick is more of a douchebag than Weev.
thestringpuller: he's basically on reddit wanting Core to become bitcoin politicians
thestringpuller: so now he's gone from being bitcoin businessman to bitcoin politician
BingoBoingo: When we got our snow earier this week I was the only person the on our street civilized enough to shovel his drive way. Now that there's been a few days for it to melt and refreeze neighbors are complaining they can't get into or out of theirs because they've become too slick. Also precious few sidewalks have been shoveled in town.
funkenstein_: BingoBoingo, nordic system looking better and better innit?
BingoBoingo: Usually get around with car in winter, sufficient wild snowplows here
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Used to not be this way. Sometime 10-15 years ago the torts think scared people out of taking responsibility for clearing winter weather
mircea_popescu recalls enjoying doing it, the one year he ended up seriously snowed upon
BingoBoingo: It's not spectualarly fun, but its a way to be outside in the cold without feeling cold
BingoBoingo: What I don't get though is the people so lazy they won't do their own driveway and end up housebound three days after the last snow falls
BingoBoingo: We only got 3 or 4 inches of snow. Yet rather than remove it derps drive over it until it refreezes into a slick that doesn't remove so easily
☟︎ mircea_popescu: and then by the time i cleared it, there was a slight melt an d i got a futher two tons off the roof.
BingoBoingo: Ah, the big snows are much more fun. Only been through a couple snows between 18-24 inches.
BingoBoingo: Also when done a well earned sense of superiority over other locals who are less accomplished in the clearing
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37495 @ 0.00056658 = 21.2439 BTC [-] {3}
gribble: Current Blocks: 394516 | Current Difficulty: 1.1335429980147113E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 395135 | Next Difficulty In: 619 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 13 hours, 52 minutes, and 22 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
BingoBoingo: "Unlike me, Erik tries to be nice, to everyone, all the time. The downside of his approach is that he is treated like dirt, by everyone. Not every time, but every time it actually matters. (You are invited to review the logs of the #bitcoin-dev channel [cached] and make up your own mind on the subject.) "
BingoBoingo definitely bullish on 2013 flashbacks this year
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell ben_vulpes i'd avoid all chrysler products (including jeep) like the plague. land cruiser/4runner, tahoe/suburban, and explorer/expedition are all worth considering and all fit the "mega-suv with low tco and reasonable maintenance prospects for an american family" niche. that being said, you'd probably be just as well, if not better, served by the 00-06 escape or 97-02 cr-v, both of which should be quiet
pete_dushenski: easier to park, better on fuel, and have lower tco. whichever way you go, driving them each and finding a used car with known providence (receipts!) are the two most important factors.
BingoBoingo: Dodge Magnum though could make interesting baby wagon. Just high risk of being stolen because "urban favorite"
☟︎ pete_dushenski: magnum r/t for sure. probably less than $10k for a decent one.
pete_dushenski: chrysler has definitely taken the crown of "piece of cobbled together shit that only lasts as long as you're making payments on it", which fiat had through the 80s. fitting that fiat came back to north america in 2012 under chrysler proprietorship, really.
BingoBoingo: Meatspace friend had boring v6 one for a while. Beat it all to hell then "upgraded" to one of the daewoo crossovers rebadged as a chevy.
BingoBoingo: He mentioned not missing the covetous looks he got driving the magnum around the city
pete_dushenski: aha. the lulz of an "american" truck or car being designed and built in the firstest bestest southest korea. truly one of america's most glorious embarrassments.
BingoBoingo: I mean it was understandable when they did it with the Aveo because they wanted a bottom end car to scare people into buying up.
pete_dushenski: the only way i could explain dodge thefts topping the charts is that only poorfags ~report~ thefts, in much the same way as "all the rapes that happen on us campuses are committed by varsity athletes"
☟︎ pete_dushenski: it's like the most believable pick-up line in the hood : "i'd pick you up at 8, hun, but my charger srt8 got stolen last week and i'm still trying to track down the basterds who dun it."
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: the only problem with that aveo theory is that... it was better than the cobalt.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: A lot of the charger/etc thefts are from rental agencies
BingoBoingo: The aveo and cobalt were different kinds of terrible
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: The cobalt was basically a cavalier refresh which was a familiar, dependable kind of shitty. The aveo was an alien kind of suck.
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 21:29:45; BingoBoingo: Dodge Magnum though could make interesting baby wagon. Just high risk of being stolen because "urban favorite"
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: and you'd be amazed how many buyers preferred the alien. i sold 10x aveos as cobalts in my day.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Magnum is a good old fashioned station wagon.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: you're not progressive enough to get it
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: You also are Canadian. Locally cobalts are common. Aveos are what Chinese restaurant workers drive.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Crash resistance. Truck is only way to get body on frame construction. Also favorable height differential in crash.
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 21:39:10; pete_dushenski: the only way i could explain dodge thefts topping the charts is that only poorfags ~report~ thefts, in much the same way as "all the rapes that happen on us campuses are committed by varsity athletes"
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: not only are you not a progressive now, but you've clearly never been one either. while it's true that some fall into the 'prius/tesla' camp, others fall into the 'i'd never drive a sedan or wagon because that's what my parents did and that's old-fashioned and/or otherwise bad mkay' camp
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: as to thefts, the point of the rape parallel is that the act (of ownership or sex) never actually happened.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: as BingoBoingo points out, that most of the 'thefts' happened on rental lots indicates exactly this. namely, fraud.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: No. Thefts are rentals that just don't get returned. Talked to a couple people who did the scary work of "rental car recovery"
pete_dushenski: or car "disappeared" from and ended up at employee's step-brother's house, "somehow"
jurov: rental agencies don't report that?
jurov: !up gabriel_laddel
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: What typically was the worst case was car renter took car to region under "sovereign flag" like certain areas of North St Louis that precluded recovery when lojack revealed the car to be there.
gabriel_laddel: Does anyone have experience with North Star Micro Electronics?
☟︎ BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Apparently at that point recovery efforts became limited to driving by to verify the car was there and making it insurance company's problem
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: bwahaha. "how much does your enemy need to pay you for you to answer the call in his time of need ?"... indeed. why shouldn't "recovery" guys be on the same side as "thieves" ?
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: We shall see. I would like to put 8 of them in your hands. S.NSA needs a R&D project.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Not necessarily on side of theives. Company just did not want life insurance premiums to bankrupt them so placed sane limits on what could be recovered from where.
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: know anything about the honda passport model?
ben_vulpes: what does 'korean' mean for build quality and lifetime?
pete_dushenski: there's a good reason you don't see many 15-20 year old hyundais on the road
ben_vulpes: all the good cars have miserable lines.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: 'sold now' is not under consideration.
pete_dushenski: korean shitboxes tend to rattle and groan like very poorly maintained vacuum cleaners at 15-20 years of age and find themselves in the scrap yard as a result
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Gas is cheap. Just get a Ford Excursion and be done with it.
BingoBoingo: Just imagine how much bandwidth it would have when full of tapes!
pete_dushenski: " Will trow set of massa 23inch wheels if pay full price." <<< !!!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95400 @ 0.00056372 = 53.7789 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49650 @ 0.00056398 = 28.0016 BTC [+] {3}
ben_vulpes: certainly felt like it, driving across town to school and back every day.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Bigger than some apartments
BingoBoingo: Can roll the window down and jsut drop a turd on the highway
mod6: '-has a couple songs in the rear bumper' wat?
BingoBoingo: mod6: How can one not want to investigate that mystery?
BingoBoingo: There's prolly also got to be aftermarket plate armour kits for the thing
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Arm fat, usually associated with older ladies that frequent Bingo halls. Now Obesity is prevalent enough the young and under exercised frequently have them. The arm fat in a bingo wing typically "flaps" when moving hence "wing"
☟︎ BingoBoingo: But in the most gigantic, overwhelming space
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 21:56:13; gabriel_laddel: Does anyone have experience with North Star Micro Electronics?
BingoBoingo: Well. might actually make sense when children get to school if personally delivering them. May deter other parent's driving aggression if their baby wagon is insuffiecient to take yours in a fight for space.
BingoBoingo: Could also be a reflection of how many 'Muricans go planetary after birth requiring truck suspensions to hold their ass.
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 22:40:27; BingoBoingo: Can then hang as trophy like "angel"
pete_dushenski: "Of the 269 Predators purchased by the Air Force since then, about half have been destroyed or badly damaged in accidents, records show." <--> "The Predator has been our most effective weapon in our campaign against the global jihadists,” said Michael G. Vickers, the Pentagon’s former top civilian intelligence official"
pete_dushenski: when your ~most effective~ weapon costs you more to build, maintain, and operate than it causes in damage to your enemies, you're deeply defeated.
☟︎ pete_dushenski: not so. a pension is just a promise, a predator costs money today, in today's dollars
pete_dushenski: widow from vietnam can have 350/mo forever, can't afford cauliflower
pete_dushenski: see freight costs atm. here to shanghai for the cost of the containers.
pete_dushenski: "In March, the Air Force’s program manager for its Reaper fleet filed a report with the Pentagon noting that there had been “a dramatic increase” in starter-generator failures since 2013." <--> "General Atomics spokeswoman Kimberly Kasitz said the firm “stands behind the proven reliability” of the Reaper."
pete_dushenski: i greater display of circuitous wankery one could scarcely imagine.
pete_dushenski: "“Once the battery’s gone, the airplane goes stupid and you lose it,” said Col. Brandon Baker, chief of the Air Force’s remotely piloted aircraft capabilities division. “Quite frankly, we don’t have the root cause ironed out just yet.”"
pete_dushenski: also, "The Reaper carries an emergency battery backup system. But the batteries last only for about one hour. If a malfunctioning drone needs more time than that to reach an airfield, it is in trouble."
pete_dushenski: just imagine the conversation at lizard hitler hq : "sir, we have reports that the bitcoin xtcoreclassic team isn't providing adequate lulz to our enemies at #b-a. we've expended all the resources we had at our disposal and it still isn't enough. they're indefatigable sir!" "send in... the drones. it might not be a perfect plan, but it's all we have right now. at the very least, it'll buy us some time." "right away,
pete_dushenski: in lab, no, but the results would seem to support your theory, particularly as heathens with slingshots seem to be picking them off like flies buzzing around yesterday's leftovers
pete_dushenski: wait, really ? you think ~half~ of their fleet "had accidents" ?
pete_dushenski: i'm not persuaded that the front-line gameboyers think that there's an unlimited supply of these machines.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 168000 @ 0.0005599 = 94.0632 BTC [-] {4}
polarbeard: I don't know if you'll find this interesting or horrible :)
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 22:37:55; BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Arm fat, usually associated with older ladies that frequent Bingo halls. Now Obesity is prevalent enough the young and under exercised frequently have them. The arm fat in a bingo wing typically "flaps" when moving hence "wing"
polarbeard: I've been toying with trb's building scripts, and I've managed to do a whole build, including sig verification and pressing by generating a makefile
mircea_popescu: for any innocents : bingo is this activity where you get a bit of paper printed with numbers, there's a loudspeaker saying numbers, and you cross out the matches.
mircea_popescu: apparently someone does this voluntarily! i expect to see prison camps next!
polarbeard: the makefile there is generated from the script on top
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.polarbeard.1:8a5bdee1eb6f2d33a59c6a5c2f83bc35d2934888e7e09fc6c99cbe2480d8c241
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for polarbeard with note: Managed a V press.
polarbeard: we have similar interests, for what I read in the public log
mircea_popescu: actually that's a neat little script. what dja think trinque mod6 ?
trinque: polarbeard: I posted some makefiles to the ML recently. How does what you've done here compare to it?
polarbeard: trinque: I used your makefiles to build the script actually, you sped up the process :)
polarbeard: this script generates a single makefile to verify, press and build, without using v
mircea_popescu: to look at that press enum... shit you people've been busy.
trinque: polarbeard: cool man. I'll read it in detail later this evening.
polarbeard: thanks! is still under heavy testing, but it works
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform he included a test suite, and a list of its outputs, which is impressive.
polarbeard: those will not be imported if you already have them
polarbeard: yep, this is quite experimental anyway, I don't know make's limits
polarbeard: maybe if you feed it too much targets i'll die
mircea_popescu: "make has a 100000 targets limit written into the code"
polarbeard: after verifying, patches are split into hunks
☟︎ polarbeard: why split or why make has to resolve them?
mircea_popescu:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381687 << the definition of "effective" under which he operates is both peculiar and self-defeating. he wants to get something (in this case, anything, whatsoever) for nothing (in this case, no casualties, the one thing usg can't afford is coffins). so in that sense, his insanity is sensible.
☝︎ assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 23:07:35; pete_dushenski: when your ~most effective~ weapon costs you more to build, maintain, and operate than it causes in damage to your enemies, you're deeply defeated.
polarbeard: it helps with parallelization but there was another reason I forgot
mircea_popescu: so technically it doesn't need the v once the output has been generated.
polarbeard: you get a signable build process though
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, as per github tradition. if you trust your computer and v implementation, you can sign the output.
mircea_popescu: how do you thinkg everything else that's signed out there is signed ?
polarbeard: hunks is generated by the script after verification