⏐︎ 13512
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: noone for values such that of people who claim to have, finding actual readers is still a hard problem. Not an actual 0.
decimation: asciilifeform: that internet-wide scanner is neat
decimation: .зэк would be a great tld
mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYMRjnM6j6w
assbot: Monty Python's - Johann Gambolputty - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/16oUaQg )
mircea_popescu: THAT shouldbe a tld.
decimation: so I guess the democratic police in sydney nearly succeeded in saving all the hostages
mircea_popescu: lol
cazalla: decimation, they saved themselves, nearly all escaped before the cops even went in
cazalla: if the law permitted us to carry weapons, would've ended much sooner as well
[]bot: Bet placed: 5 BTC for No on "Billion dollar bet?" http://bitbet.us/bet/1047/ Odds: 14(Y):86(N) by coin, 17(Y):83(N) by weight. Total bet: 15.21715114 BTC. Current weight: 46,538.
asciilifeform: what threadbare log.
asciilifeform: from the department of nyooz yoo can yooze - kakobrekla provided data from which we learn that ddos man has switched from ssdp to ntp 'amplification' attack (see literature.) ☟︎
cazalla: and it's that bullshit law which enables mohammed to hold down a chocolate shop for almost 24 hours.. the gov actually enabled him to do better than he could if the playing field was level
asciilifeform: same principles apply to ntp flooding as earlier ssdp - anyone who wishes can 'walk away with' the 'bots'.
asciilifeform: the machines in question are not 'pwned' in the conventional, permanent sense
asciilifeform: they answer to any fool who can send some spoofed packets.
mircea_popescu: no, just ntp is a braindamaged protocol
mircea_popescu: the world would be so much better if all the gmaxwells of this world were never taught to read.
asciilifeform: all of the 'amplification' tricks rely on the ability to send (and see them routed) packets with spoofed origin ip.
asciilifeform: this in turn is fundamental braindamage baked into a good chunk of the net.
asciilifeform: great many places have no 'ingress filtering'
mircea_popescu: there's nothing wrong with declaring your ip
asciilifeform: this is something else
mircea_popescu: there IS something wrong to treating packets like fucking popcorn.
asciilifeform: packets claiming to be from inside your net should not be able to enter it from outside.
mircea_popescu: sure.
asciilifeform: http://www.bcp38.info/index.php/Main_Page << summary
assbot: BCP38 ... ( http://bit.ly/1uQo3y9 )
mircea_popescu: not trivial to know where a packet enters tho. they do have to traverse it anyway
asciilifeform: most 'human' networks have a single gateway.
mircea_popescu: " IP addresses that were not assigned to the device which is sending them."
mircea_popescu: pshhh.
mircea_popescu: this is not the solution.
mircea_popescu: the solution is to not send 500 packets in response to one
asciilifeform: weirdos like us, who might use gnarly multihomed pipes, not counted
mircea_popescu: and to not send packets to X that were asked for by Y.
asciilifeform: that last bit is precisely what i was speaking of.
asciilifeform: spoofing allows y to impersonate x.
asciilifeform: hence x gets the reply.
asciilifeform: this is not high science. ip spoofing and ddos vectors enabled by it are an age-old plague.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile TO THIS DAY wordpress will go check because said so.
mircea_popescu: and in connectionless environments such as ntp or dns even, it would cost nothing to require 2 tits for every tat.
mircea_popescu: you want the time ? ask twice. the server answers each request pair once, in the order of descending delta intervals.
asciilifeform: there are considerably more misconfigured consumer routers, tv boxes, electrical dildoes, etc. than 'wordpress' installs.
asciilifeform: (the latter tends to sit on fatter pipe, however. so i've no idea which one wins in practice.)
asciilifeform: ^ for typical crap artist's collection
mircea_popescu: im annoyed by the principle of the thing.
mircea_popescu: mullenweg and the core of imbeciles "working" at wordpress go around claiming they program computers
mircea_popescu: meanwhile they are too stupid o tie their own shoes.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-12-2014#948319 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 08-12-2014 17:09:27; asciilifeform: where every packet knows who paid for it << those who imagine a wot-routing based net as a rent-seekers' paradise are mistaken. it is today's net that is a rent-seeker's paradise, where folks who cannot abide ddos must buy bandwidth in vast excess of their normal needs
mircea_popescu: "lets make computers fun" ; "you know, for kids" and "anyone can do this". fuck that.
asciilifeform: rather, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-12-2014#948287 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 08-12-2014 16:32:51; asciilifeform: ddos << there will come the day when folks will remember the 'route to anybody who asks first-come-first-serve' internet - with disgust.
ben_vulpes: once upon a time, computers were such that children could actually reason about them.
mircea_popescu: pre apple.
asciilifeform: pre-i386.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the entire world made by derps unaware of game theory needs to be redone.
mircea_popescu: it's like a beautifully drawn mmorpg made by blizzard. you KNOW the economy will be broken to all shit.
asciilifeform: who? - made what? - while unaware of game theory?
mircea_popescu: every anything used in an amplification attack meets the criteria.
mircea_popescu: it was made by idiots who do not understand what trade even is.
asciilifeform distinctly recalls that half the u.s. research establishment at one point furiously masturbated to game theorey
asciilifeform: *theory
mircea_popescu: yah well
BingoBoingo: Plenty of derps masterbate to the idea of tits without experiencing or understanding them
asciilifeform: the problem with 'amplification attack' isn't that i can send b bytes and get K*b back. failing this - tremendous waste! problem in actuality is spoofed packets getting routed, which at this point is always and without exception the result of idiot network designers and admins
mircea_popescu: no waste whatsoever.
mircea_popescu: it's not waste, it's usage.
mircea_popescu: you always get less than what you put in. this is the chief principle that makes the world endure
asciilifeform: you're talking about, unless i misunderstand, 'pushing' one bit for each 'pulled' ?
mircea_popescu: in spite of endless generations of imbeciles running wild all over it.
scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by cazalla: http://qntra.net/2014/12/cftc-requests-public-comment-ledgerx/
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform more than one.
asciilifeform: who wishes to pay for this? mircea_popescu ?
mircea_popescu: you want n packets, you send at least n+1. you want n bits, you send at least n+1.
mircea_popescu: it's not a matter of who wishes anything.
asciilifeform: remember that ddos does not necessarily require 'amplification'
mircea_popescu: it's how everything must be.
asciilifeform: perfectly feasible simply using bots
asciilifeform: sending entirely ordinary packets
asciilifeform: directly to victim
mircea_popescu: as long as friction is baked in, the ddos problem fundamentally doesn't exist.
mircea_popescu: exactly for the reason you mention : who can afford or wants to give anyone free traffic ?
asciilifeform: ddos still exists if network treats random derp in random place equally with the folks whose traffic one actually wants.
mircea_popescu: somehow ddos doesn't happen irl. wonder why ?
mircea_popescu: it's not because of national id cards.
asciilifeform: because in real life, taking a shit in someone's kitchen requires physically entering.
mircea_popescu: right, which goes through thermodynamic dissipation aka friction.
asciilifeform: but suppose you could silently teleport it.
mircea_popescu: that is what im saying. to get a packet there, you need more than one
mircea_popescu: no more bs "teleport bits" internet
asciilifeform: bots still work as before
mircea_popescu: for as long as your bank accoutn lasts, sure.
asciilifeform: only the lowliest sp4mz0r actually pays for bots.
mircea_popescu: now.
mircea_popescu: because teleport bits exists, putting undue down pressure on all prices.
mircea_popescu: it's a situation exactly identical to "pay for software" and software market in general.
mircea_popescu: yes, i'm aware, reddit expects everything for free.
mircea_popescu: the reason is not economical, nor sensible.
mircea_popescu: they only get away with it because a flaw in the design.
asciilifeform: i can think of a few events that would apply the necessary upward pressure on bandwidth cost.
mircea_popescu: it shouldn't be an event
asciilifeform: say, cataclysmic war.
mircea_popescu: that is the definition of design : rules independent of events.
mircea_popescu: in short, the more i think about it the more im inclined to rather see the telcos win the internet war, adn google lose it
asciilifeform: let's rephrase a little. the internet as presently exists, is, in practice, mainly a machine for 1) connecting derps to 'reddit' and 'arsebook' 2) routing ddos packets to trilema, qntra...
asciilifeform: if want some other network - have to produce it.
mircea_popescu: if cardano wasn't so woefully delayed exploring this in practice'd be almost tempting.
mircea_popescu: make a whole new web, on a whole new port, based on pgp signs
asciilifeform: which practice ?
mircea_popescu: turn off all other traffic, have servers in their own, better world.
asciilifeform: i may have spoken of this once. i've a very rough draft of precisely this, using an interesting bit of mathematics called 'fountain code'
asciilifeform: but not ready for battlefield. and no time now.
mircea_popescu: it'd be a better tor and everything else by default.
asciilifeform: rather opposite goal to 'tor.'
asciilifeform: if i understand mircea_popescu correctly
mircea_popescu: but actually delivering its claimed fruits.
mircea_popescu: and absolutely NEVER allow any derps on it. stick to the original plan with the original internet, no fucking undergrads.
mircea_popescu: no fucking aol.
asciilifeform: whole thing was based (in my head) on a hypothesis that folks misidentify the reason for the glory of old usenet
mircea_popescu: the glory of the usenet is exactly the glory of b-a.
asciilifeform: folks typically say 'it was because electric identities were attached to people'
mircea_popescu: once you get the proper voice model implemented, forgeddaboutit
BingoBoingo: http://openbenchmarking.org/result/1412060-LI-KFREEBSD879 << Look the Derps still benchmark OS software but have lost the ability to benchmark with... Same hardware!
assbot: Debian 8.0 Jessie - KFreeBSD Vs. GNU Linux Benchmarks - OpenBenchmarking.org ... ( http://bit.ly/1qTTPy1 )
asciilifeform: but really it was because posts were attached to identities (as a matter of convention, rather than 'hard' protocol)
asciilifeform: i.e. - wot.
mircea_popescu: quite.
mircea_popescu: and a shitty version, beyond primitive, yet it still worked.
mircea_popescu: the extreme power of this idea is evidenced by how effectual it is even when poorly implemented.
mircea_popescu: exactly like gunpowder is impressive even without a fine 1850 hovitzer
asciilifeform: aha.
asciilifeform: someone probably wonders 'wtf, why fountain code'. answer: getting rid of tcp.
asciilifeform: so communication can be maximally stateless
mircea_popescu: aside of which, friday some derp was going on about what "his life is dedicated to" and in the crowd hysteria i told em my life is dedicated to excluding people.
asciilifeform: l0l!!
mircea_popescu: totally ruined the moment for 'em. idiots.
mircea_popescu: there is however no higher purpose.
asciilifeform: here's a very rough description of above experiment. to start a transmission a --> b, 'a' sends a hello (udp) packet, which consists of an ephemeral rsa key, hash and length of (coming) payload, and all of the preceding signed with his wot key. this fits handily below the traditional 576 byte mtu.
mircea_popescu: why do you want to preserve the fucking magic numbers
asciilifeform: what follows is the payload, divided into K gibblets, each below udp mtu in size, each signed with ephemeral key. the gibblets are coded using fountain code (e.g. 'raptor') and you need N of K - in any order - to reassemble. ☟︎
asciilifeform: fucking magic numbers << mircea_popescu wants to buy everyone on the planet a new nic and lay own oceanic fibers, launch own satellites, etc. ? sure, why not.
mircea_popescu grumbles.
asciilifeform: but if working with existing planet, have to swallow some very basic dirt like udp.
mircea_popescu: wqasn't the actuyal max 64kb anyway ?
asciilifeform: max. 576 is max that won't fragment.
asciilifeform: (consult literature)
mircea_popescu: o that
mircea_popescu: all this shit is starting to come back to me
mircea_popescu shudders, thinks of bunnies
asciilifeform: at any rate, tiny packets plus fountain code plus each one is signed, will work great with transmission media other than internet (say, shortwave)
asciilifeform: and any other slow, noisy channel.
decimation: absolutely
decimation: asciilifeform: did you see that david mackay book I recommended? He has a chapter on fountain codes
asciilifeform: aha.
asciilifeform: not a bad intro.
BingoBoingo: * mircea_popescu shudders, thinks of bunnies << This is how Qntra's taking over reddit.
decimation: he also wrote a book on renewable resources from Herr McCarthy's point of view
decimation: "He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense"
decimation: re: ntp amplification << the thing is, ntp tends to run on actual servers people might care about, so they might respond to notices
mircea_popescu: decimation still.
asciilifeform: decimation: nope. iirc, it mostly uses misconfigured tv boxes
asciilifeform: set to serve up ntp for no particular reason.
decimation: sigh
asciilifeform: d3m0cr4cy!
asciilifeform: all packets were created equal...
decimation: I've actually spent some time reading the ntp source code
decimation: it's a mess
decimation: I managed to get that pci card with the onboard ocxo working with a slightly custom ntp driver
asciilifeform: to finish the earlier thread: machine on the other end of the link (destination) decides whether to keep packet and attempt payload reassembly based on simple criteria: 1) is it a hello from a wot-blessed (from his pov) key 2) is it signed by an ephemeral key from one such 'hello' received recently.
asciilifeform: anything else gets insta-dropped.
asciilifeform: i've deliberately described only a point-to-point link. routing with multiple hops is left as an exercise for the reader!
thestringpuller: that seems like a huge packet though ~_~
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the important part isn't even trhere, the important part is that the machine WONT ROUTE
mircea_popescu: if it doesn't like the sig
asciilifeform: nope. every single one below udp mtu.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i did just say this.
mircea_popescu: right.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: how many more bytes would GPG sig add to packet? (i assume binary signatures?)
mircea_popescu: and i'd kinda like to see this implemented right by sane people this decader
mircea_popescu: because the telcos WILL do a mickey mouse or should i say microsoft version of it
decimation: asciilifeform: why bother with the emphemeral key? wouldn't a signed blob (however you do the error coding) be good enough?
asciilifeform: decimation is a winner
asciilifeform: the ephemeral key is absolutely necessary.
asciilifeform: can anyone tell me why?
asciilifeform: i left it as an exercise.
decimation: well, I guess if you didn't have it, you would have to store all of the irrelvant derpage until you could check it
asciilifeform: nope
asciilifeform: i bet mircea_popescu can tell us why ephemeral key is a must
mircea_popescu: replay attacks for one thing come to mind
asciilifeform: nah, that's what the nonce (see, i left out details i consider profanely obvious) is for
mircea_popescu: isn't fixed sig + nonce equivalent to ephemereal sig ?
asciilifeform: rot13: boivbhfyl, bayl rcurzreny xrlf znl fvta cnlybnqf orpnhfr jbg xrl yvirf va ryrpgevpnyyl vfbyngrq qrivpr naq vf abg npprffvoyr gb lbhe pbzchgre jvgubhg znahny gevttre chyy!
asciilifeform: the riddle is not difficult.
mircea_popescu: but for that you need the cardano.
decimation: oh duh
asciilifeform: right-o.
asciilifeform: just like to take analysis you gotta pass arithmetic.
decimation: well, it need not be a per-session ephemeral key in that case
asciilifeform: ruthlessly cumulative game.
asciilifeform: decimation: i deliberately oversimplified things here.
asciilifeform: perhaps will live to regret.
asciilifeform: wanted to be sure to hammer in the point.
asciilifeform: a different kind of net is possible.
asciilifeform: (to pervert the liberast slogan 'a different world is possible')
decimation: absolutely. mr. yarvin linked to a vint cerf lecture where herr cerf was talking about global persistant namespaces
asciilifeform: all thieves. ted nelson wrote about it in no uncertain language, in the late '60s.
decimation: interesting
decimation: bitcoin is a kind of global namespace
mircea_popescu: all thieves!~
asciilifeform: or, to be more charitable, f-students
decimation: wasn't kakobrekla explaining about the saturated nature of the torrent 'clouds'?
asciilifeform: the beauty of a wot-enabled net is that you no longer need to think about perverse edge cases quite so much.
asciilifeform: because folks who eagerly push the limits of the permissible - will find themselves dealt out of the game.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform just like it works here.
asciilifeform: aha.
asciilifeform: who was it who compared wot to semiconductor? mircea_popescu ?
decimation: actually vint has much to answer for, because of tcp. TCP was a step backwards in networking
asciilifeform: ordinary net - conductor. wotnet - semiconductor.
mircea_popescu: if i didn't i'll take it anyway.
asciilifeform: very closely analogous, actually.
decimation: most of the modems that are now in use on shortwave are designed to turn the natural broadcast medium into a point-to-point link
decimation: which is a fantastic waste if you think about it
mircea_popescu: well...
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: What was your earlier maybe project that got supplanted, the resistor?
mircea_popescu: if you think about it sculpture is also fantastic waste of marble
mircea_popescu: kinda how civilisation works. life too.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: ???
asciilifeform: resistor?
mircea_popescu: kyristor ?
asciilifeform: ^
BingoBoingo: tHAT ONE
BingoBoingo: tHANKS
decimation: hehe
BingoBoingo: Cuts ceramic tiles.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo is a backwards endian
mircea_popescu: he remembers the end ofwords
BingoBoingo: That is very true.
BingoBoingo: Dat ass
BingoBoingo: !up gesella
mircea_popescu: !up gernika
BingoBoingo: https://twitter.com/lowtax/status/544592688582889472
assbot: wow, that leaked James Bond script looks terrible http://t.co/OuIZAs25A1
asciilifeform: the important takeaway from the earlier thread is that 'democracy is mistake, hierarchy is useful concept' is a testable hypothesis with immediate engineering applications.
asciilifeform: mr mold realized this, but for reasons of his own he ended up crapping out a centrally-controlled abortion
asciilifeform: sorta like what a more clever usg would have offered.
mircea_popescu: quite, asciilifeform .
asciilifeform: i've no idea why he did it. for all i know, 'they' threatened to feed his children to shoggoths if he refrained.
mircea_popescu: equalitarianism is a pipe dream, whether it calls itself democracy, socialism or anything else. hierarchy is both good and indispensable. this is factually correct, which means it's practically falsifiable and scientifically approacheable.
asciilifeform: point here was that it has immediate engineering applications. like trigonometry.
mircea_popescu: quite.
asciilifeform: 16th c. trigonometers did not have to beg folks to agree. they were fought over by the chiefs of their time, because artillery.
mircea_popescu: quite :)
mircea_popescu asks nubbins to make him a sign
BingoBoingo: At the time Artillery was cooler than fighter Jets ever were, or John McCain's shit eating grin would be on signs as far south as Rio
BingoBoingo: http://reason.com/blog/2014/12/15/social-justice-bandits-vandalize-apartme?n_play=548f6eb2e4b0697d47400883
assbot: Vandalized: Residence of U-M Student Who Dared to Mock Trigger Warnings - Hit & Run : Reason.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1Afms8N )
mircea_popescu: heh.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 5338 @ 0.0012 = 6.4056 BTC
BingoBoingo: http://www.opensxce.org/
assbot: OpenSXCE 201**4**.05 LiveDVD for Intel/AMD IA32 and AMD64 plus for Sun/Oracle SPARC (from 1995' UltraSPARC_I till 2011' sun4v UltraSPARC T3) ... ( http://bit.ly/1AfnEZS )
mod6: root@ip-172-31-10-219:/mnt/btc-dev/sandbox/bitcoin-bitcoin-a8def6b/src# ./bitcoind -rpccommand getblockcount
mod6: 334499
mod6: oops
mircea_popescu: ddos ?
PeterL: speaking of Universities in Michigan, http://www.mlive.com/lansing-news/index.ssf/2014/12/george_will_speech_set_to_go_a.html
assbot: George Will speech set to go ahead despite protests to Michigan State trustees | MLive.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1AfoHci )
PeterL: At my alma mater, the school president tells students to grow up, lets the guy speak anyway
BingoBoingo: Good for them
mircea_popescu: who is this will fellow ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Kind of "conservative" writer. Also writes about baseball.
mircea_popescu: That was the end of the story—until last week, when The College Fix reported that Mahmood's off-campus apartment was vandalized. The four criminals wore hoods and baggy clothing to disguise themselves; less brilliantly, they changed in full view of the apartment complex's security camera. They appear to be women of unclear ages. The video footage is available here.
mircea_popescu: lulzy.
BingoBoingo: Does not look like http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/photoshop/0/0/4/350004_v1.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1AfpkTj )
mircea_popescu: i could have told you itwas women
mircea_popescu: who the fuck else imagines "nobody likes you" is a valid attack lmao
BingoBoingo: Well, you have to admire the stunningly poor opsec.
PeterL: mircea_popescu: apparently he said something about rape which people did not like
mircea_popescu: "Remember: anything a prog/leftist/SJW accuses others of doing, they always are guilty of themselves. Always. And that's why they can't see the contradiction here. Because the projection is a defense mechanism. They can't see the contradiction without realizing some very nasty truths about themselves."
mircea_popescu: comments section's not bad for once.
PeterL: Reason does have some good commentors, they would fit in well here
ben_vulpes: may as well invite The Well, PeterL
ben_vulpes: they have their hole, and it's the best, goddamit
mircea_popescu: what's that ?
ben_vulpes: the well?
ben_vulpes: some earlyish webby forum thing
mircea_popescu: you know what i'd really go for ? happy thursdays or something, wherein participating bars/coffee shops all over the world give free drinks to people in the b-a wot.
PeterL: I think I might have been linked to bitcoin by Reason, back in 2011
mircea_popescu: they can have wireless and we can all be like little fonzies.
ben_vulpes: http://www.well.com/
assbot: The WELL - the birthplace of the online community movement. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Afq5LX )
mircea_popescu: does anyone want to actually administer this project ?
decimation: the women donning disguises in front of the security camera is hilarious
mircea_popescu: ;;google "but i used the juice"
gribble: The burglar with the lemon juice disguise « Mind Hacks: <http://mindhacks.com/2010/02/11/the-burglar-with-the-lemon-juice-disguise/>; Dunning–Kruger effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect>; DOT Uses Beet Juice to Battle Icy Roads | NBC 10 Philadelphia: <http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/traffic/transit/Beet-Juice- (1 more message) ☟︎
mircea_popescu: decimation basically, in the 90s the typical aimless, 30something undergrad was perfectly typified by tom green in roadtrip
mircea_popescu: 20 years later, it's a very fat, but in denial about it, very socially inept, but also in denial about it, 30something yo female.
mircea_popescu: pity there's no talented comedienne to mock the type.
decimation: yeah I buy that
decimation: most 'life-long students' I have met were women
asciilifeform: 30something undergrad << lol
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Concerning number of those
decimation: did we link to the greenpeace idiots in peru?
asciilifeform: (they exist! everyone remembers the 19th c. 'eternal students', who were bequeathed a certain income to live on -while students- by rich family, and so stretched out study for decades - today, it's loan deferment.)
thestringpuller: decimation: I thought greenpeace was norwegian.
decimation: http://www.wsj.com/articles/peru-says-greenpeace-permanently-damaged-nazca-lines-1418681478
assbot: Peru Says Greenpeace Permanently Damaged Nazca Lines - WSJ ... ( http://bit.ly/1Afs5Us )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform exactly.
decimation: it's pretty much the same deal as your idiot-'academic'-woman stereotype
decimation: they went to put a sign on the ground near ancient drawings in a desert, to protest the desecration of climate change, and they descrated the lines in the process
decimation: peru is going to throw the idiots in peruvian jail
mircea_popescu: they tried and therefore no one should criticize them.
decimation: that was pretty much their original 'apology' and peru said 'fuck you'
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: In my first stint as a Teaching Assistant I had Late 40's grad students. Retired military or house wives getting almost always already employed by the university looking for their second or third career
asciilifeform: free publicity.
asciilifeform: next they'll smash something notable on purpose.
asciilifeform: herostratus.
asciilifeform: employed by the university << where i live, it gets you (above a certain rank) free tuition. so plenty of takers. but this is a different animal from earlier picture.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform knows his greeks!
mircea_popescu: !s herostratus
assbot: 1 results for 'herostratus' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=herostratus
asciilifeform: who doesn't know old herostratus.
decimation: they posted a video of themselves performing the act on youtube, you can clearly see them standing inches from the lines https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_yk6WlpFyo
assbot: protesta de Greenpeace daña Líneas de Nazca - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1AfsOoN )
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> next they'll smash something notable on purpose. << Locally "preservation Engineers" have done exactly this with "Monks Mound" Thing is just a pile of dirt long lived with stable shape. Engineers come in and in their interventions invent "slumping" A scourge the caused and insist only they can solve for the grant dollars.
decimation: basically the lines are drawn in the black crusted desert, with white sand underneath
decimation: they have been there more-or-less unmolested for 1000 years
BingoBoingo: Local dirt pile in question endangered by "preservation" http://cahokiamounds.org/explore/archaeology/past-research-projects/monks-mound/slump/
assbot: Cahokia Mounds| Explore | Past Research Projects | Monk's Mound Projects | Slump Repair ... ( http://bit.ly/1Aftp9V )
asciilifeform: nothing really new here. recall the millenia of idiots who separated everything that 'was poorly glued down' from the pyramids, etc.
asciilifeform: if peru wants to preserve the line drawings, easy pill:
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform notably, napoleon
asciilifeform: drop mines.
decimation: asciilifeform: but some of them might have been making an idiotic political statement!
decimation: asciilifeform: or revive east germany's experiments with automated gunfire
asciilifeform: i recommend ПФМ-1.
asciilifeform: aka butterfly.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Pyramid stone at least had value in being convenient cut rock. This is literally a dirt pile only being molest because of grants by engineers that can't arithmatic.
mats: $proxies
empyex: mats: Proxies: mpex.bz mpex.biz mpex.co mpex.ws mpex.coinbr.com Current MPEx GPG-Key-ID: 02DD2D91
empyex: mats: MPEx-Status: mpex.biz (112 milliseconds), mpex.ws (119 milliseconds), mpex.co (123 milliseconds), mpex.bz (132 milliseconds), mpex.coinbr.com (462 milliseconds)
empyex: mats: Health-Indicators: Homepage: √ MK Depth JSON: ✗ VWAP JSON: √
mats: that's a god damn lie
asciilifeform: unlike the ancient egyptians, modern man does not have to content himself with curses to keep pests out of monuments
asciilifeform: many exquisite tools to choose from.
decimation: asciilifeform: the SM-70 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortifications_of_the_inner_German_border#mediaviewer/File:Sm-70_schlagsdorf.jpg
assbot: Fortifications of the inner German border - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1AftR88 )
asciilifeform: decimation: that thing was more or less a shotgun
asciilifeform: no concealment at all
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: "changing" << scam! i saw no nudity.
asciilifeform: useless for this purpose.
asciilifeform: you want them everywhere, and sans metal
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes do not complain about things you should be thankful for.
BingoBoingo: http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/nhl-needs-heightened-vigilance-with-mumps/ << Security incantations without reinforcement
assbot: NHL needs heightened vigilance with mumps - Sportsnet.ca ... ( http://bit.ly/1Afu3UN )
ben_vulpes: pahaha
asciilifeform: if budget allows, use 'smart' mines that can be temporarily switched off by those having private key
ben_vulpes: i always enjoy derpettes humiliating themselves on camera.
ben_vulpes: "look ma - no dom!"
decimation: asciilifeform: this is what I mean by 'border fence' with mexico
decimation: I think mr. mold made this point - once you have laid the minefield, it's an easy step to the laser-turrets
asciilifeform: except why.
asciilifeform: from world's cheapest, most resilient weapon, to most ludicrously expensive and finicky
asciilifeform: only an american would suggest it.
decimation: hehe yeah good point
decimation: except minefields don't work well on rocky ledges
mircea_popescu: actually alf has a point. the mine is merely the successor of the caltrop
asciilifeform: disguise as rock in question.
mircea_popescu: definitely the oldest weapon, definitely the most cost effective.
asciilifeform: instead of digging in
asciilifeform: a plastic mine can easily wait for its 'customer' for a century.
mircea_popescu: but did princess diana die in vain ?!
mircea_popescu: (while speeding drunk)
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: If we were doing turrets, why laser and not rail?
decimation: BingoBoingo: let's not be silly
asciilifeform: if turrets, works differently
asciilifeform: you need exactly one
asciilifeform: (far away from the field)
asciilifeform: on the field - sensors.
asciilifeform: basically auto-called artillery strike.
PeterL: motion triggered nuke?
mats: http://www.cbr.ru/eng/press/pr.aspx?file=16122014_010920eng_dkp2014-12-16T01_04_09.htm
assbot: On Bank of Russia key rate and other measures ... ( http://bit.ly/1AfuO0c )
BingoBoingo: decimation: I'm just saying if we're shooting... projectiles with immediate injury. Dun want to get owned by a brave idiot wearing tin foil
asciilifeform: turrets kept in some remote pisshole, individually, is an idiot nonstarter
asciilifeform: (go leave, e.g., rifle, outdoors for a decade. then fire.)
mircea_popescu: o look at that, ruble crossed 60
mats: Chinese did it just fine. muskets though.
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker -currency RUB
gribble: (ticker [--bid|--ask|--last|--high|--low|--avg|--vol] [--currency XXX] [--market <market>|all]) -- Return pretty-printed ticker. Default market is Bitstamp. If one of the result options is given, returns only that numeric result (useful for nesting in calculations). If '--currency XXX' option is given, returns ticker for that three-letter currency code. It is up to you to make sure (1 more message)
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --currency all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCALL ticker | Best bid: 38418.016095, Best ask: 38454.067135, Bid-ask spread: 36.05104, Last trade: 38454.067135, 24 hour volume: 9730.55800460, 24 hour low: 38340.28104, 24 hour high: 39992.995905, 24 hour vwap: 39354.7220805
decimation: yeah 'auto-artillery' would be most cost effective
decimation: hell, one could combine mines and artillery with cluster bombs
ben_vulpes: self-steering for max efficacy
decimation: actually that would be particularly devious - a shell that one could hear being dropped, which would scatter mines everywhere - arming after a few seconds of settling
mats: ;;ticker --currency RUB
gribble: Bitstamp BTCRUB ticker | Best bid: 22345.9184, Best ask: 22380.637375, Bid-ask spread: 34.71897, Last trade: 22379.9823, 24 hour volume: 9755.85037265, 24 hour low: 22293.5124, 24 hour high: 23254.507425, 24 hour vwap: 22881.8278929
BingoBoingo: And Bitcoin climbs, the dollars simply does not yet know!
decimation: this reminds me of B grade scifi movie - Screamers - based on a phillip k dick story
mats: ;;calc [ticker --currency RUB --last]/[ticker --currency USD --last]
gribble: 65.5295
decimation: mats: that is neat, I didn't know gribble could do that
undata: you know technically one can climb in either direction
undata: sideways even
mats: nobody in b-a did, i looked in logs before attempting
mats: ;;calc [ticker --currency USD --last]/[ticker --currency RUB --last]
gribble: 0.0152617000008
decimation: ;;calc [ticker --currency USD --last]/[ticker --currency EUR --last]
gribble: 1.24517494708
decimation: so many weird linkages with oil, stocks, etc
mats: gribble is a cool dude
mats: http://russkiymir.ru/en/news/158593/
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1wAvzSe )
mats: >Russia will write off $865 million of Uzbekistan’s debt leaving a balance of $25 million to repay to Moscow
cazalla: mats, he doesn't afraid of anyone eh
mats: #econometrics, actually interesting when moriarty isn't around
mircea_popescu: is that the scammer guy that kept spamming here ?
decimation: he was spamming here for awhile
ben_vulpes: the same
mats: http://ru-facts.com/news/view/42072.html
assbot: 10 countries, which Russia has written off most debts | Russian news and facts ... ( http://bit.ly/1wAwcLv )
decimation: what was his scam? I recall he claimed that he had 'made it big' on early bitcoin
BingoBoingo: Lemme dig up the latest buttcointalk drama on the moriarity scammer
mats: his followers claim he is not the same as the bitcointalk scammer
BingoBoingo: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=892946.0
assbot: MoriartyBitcoin is also Envrin and BlackLilac Financial ... ( http://bit.ly/1wAwodJ )
mircea_popescu: decimation was linked here few days ago, some "mixer" thing stole however many btcs
BingoBoingo: mats: And Bill Cosby claimed he was a clean cut saint who wasn't in it for the pussy.
mats: the guy talks a lot without much substance and im not inclined to believe his claims at any rate
BingoBoingo: mats: Is it one or two #'s
mats: 2
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo dude i so don't believe the recent cosby dirt...
mats: hes so fatherly n could never be a predator?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: There were parts where maybe I believe, but yeah the string of inconsistent broke people kinda kills the thing as a movement.
decimation: this ledgerX thing is amusing. bezzle's gotta bezzle
BingoBoingo: mats: So apparently I am banned from that channel
mats: i learned today naive cold boot attacks are actually pretty unlikely to work, due to modern memory controllers causing a lot of data to appear to be garbage
BingoBoingo: decimation: Well it is one of those BTC futures without any BTC delivery deals ☟︎
mats: BingoBoingo: bummer. its been p quiet, those links were the most interesting things in two days
decimation: BingoBoingo: yeah how the hell are they going to settle their 'physical' bitcoin swaps?
BingoBoingo: mats: Well I called him a spammer when he wouldn't stop PM spamming.
ben_vulpes: all clients pacified
ben_vulpes: praise satoshi's spirit
BingoBoingo: decimation: In USD
BingoBoingo: Basically they want to run a USD to USD dice game
decimation: likbez!
asciilifeform: mats: nobody reads using standard pc.
asciilifeform: mats: dedicated gadget is sold for the purpose. even comes with a bottle of (spray) freon.
BingoBoingo: This ^ Kit is cheaper than a typical 'netbook'
mircea_popescu: mats im not so convinced of that theory.
mircea_popescu: nm apparently im too late lol
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 1000 @ 0.0012 = 1.2 BTC
ben_vulpes: help
ben_vulpes: i'm at a loss where to go with provisioning, deployments and cluster mutatino
ben_vulpes: mutation*
asciilifeform: wat
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i run (small) clusters for clients.
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: but now, at a loss as to how ?
asciilifeform: amnesia ?
decimation: ben_vulpes: do you use ec2 vm's?
mircea_popescu: weren't you all into puppet/docker/we ?
ben_vulpes: i wrote a thing that handles turning standard piles of software into running software on ec2 with docker for environment isolation
ben_vulpes: but it's pretty lacking in terms of mutating the cluster in place, and not the most pleasant of things to work in being written mostly in bash.
mircea_popescu: move on to perl ?
mircea_popescu: :D
ben_vulpes: it's *great* at immutable infrastructure. you know - "don't mutate, just stand up a new cluster"
ben_vulpes: you and mod6 with the perl
ben_vulpes: python's basically dead in the water ("which python", to quote alf)
ben_vulpes: bash is inadequately expressive/debuggable
decimation: nah, python3 is dead, python2 is what everyone uses
ben_vulpes: decimation: concurrency semantics in py* are finger-crushingly bad.
asciilifeform: afaik everyone able to stomach perl is already using it. and the users know who each other are. kinda like coprophagiacs.
decimation: you mean the threading module?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i still can't fathom where a language having a 'global interpreter lock' gets off calling itself 'concurrent'
decimation: yeah that's a tricky one
ben_vulpes: i don't really care about languages
ben_vulpes: i've only been doing this for like 3 years now and i've already learned that languages are a red herring.
ben_vulpes: the last thing i see happening is me getting excited about using a language for infrastructure automation.
decimation: isn't that kinda what puppet is?
mircea_popescu: !up cryptonaut420
ben_vulpes: clojure takes 30s to boot and so is utterly unusable for operations stuff. common lisp is...well, unpalatable to client operations staff. bash is not up to the task. python's right out, along with the *js crowd.
mircea_popescu: clearly asm and fortran are left.
decimation: or forth!
ben_vulpes: yeah how do i roll greenarrays into the thing
decimation: spin your own pci express card
ben_vulpes: i shudder at the mention, but perhaps i'll end up "Go"ing
BingoBoingo: !up toddf
decimation: then you are in google's hands
ben_vulpes: !up Vexual
ben_vulpes: decimation: i may have mis-discovered my history but wasn't the steel behind python largely google before they created "Go"?
decimation: yeah I think they were mostly a python shop
decimation: I think van Rossum works there
ben_vulpes: yeah van Rossum was on payroll.
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: It was in part.
BingoBoingo: Python also benefitted from Math departments that thought "R" was bad branding for a language
ben_vulpes: numpy etc
ben_vulpes: engineering departments use matlab
ben_vulpes: *clearly* superior
ben_vulpes: /sarcasm
mircea_popescu: lol
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: I've been trying to get my mechanical engineering student brother on the LISP train (dentist brother needs no guidance) and I'm giving my paper copy of land of LISP to degernerate cousin's kids. God bless warez.
mircea_popescu: http://40.media.tumblr.com/e8df87434035e2eeffcc6f681fb4c04f/tumblr_nfdsamgEc61s6sn46o1_500.jpg <<< tit equality, now a reality!
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1A0Xls3 )
ben_vulpes: tit's a myth i tell you!
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Tits are real. Just wait until mircea_popescu replaces flouride in the water with risperidone
Vexual: as long as it doesn't go into the whiskey
Vexual: mircea_popescu: move on to perl ? < bring me a straw
mircea_popescu: strapperl ? that's happening
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1071 @ 0.00122887 = 1.3161 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 8770 @ 0.0012 = 10.524 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 1700 @ 0.0012 = 2.04 BTC
BingoBoingo: sapPERL
BingoBoingo: !up Vexual
Vexual: have cpan mirror, will tarvel
Vexual: mp: i'd love to run your free drinks, but i see a conflict of interests
Vexual: also theres not many people you'd like down at the local pig and sty
fluffypony: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf_w9MI77DM
assbot: Liquor Stories - The Pilot Episode - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1svr0Ds )
Vexual: what about a thursday freeroll on seals?
Vexual: same miscreants
Vexual: fluffy, you're awesome
Vexual: heck, i'll even chip in for the prize
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16527 @ 0.00061512 = 10.1661 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: ;;gettrust HoreaV
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user BingoBoingo to user HoreaV: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=BingoBoingo&dest=HoreaV | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=HoreaV | Rated since: Mon Apr 28 05:59:47 2014
Naphex: he is going full circle.. getting to -10
BingoBoingo: Fucker.
Naphex: BingoBoingo: maybe after, at the moment i'm still taking in the threats, black mails
Naphex: and such
fluffypony: what threats?
Naphex: but its a damn very interesint life lesson
BingoBoingo: Well, these things happen
Naphex: only takes a prick to burst a bubble
BingoBoingo: Nah, a prick just turns your sister into a stranger's wife. This sounds worse than a prick.
BingoBoingo: !up Vexual
Vexual: ;gettrust Vexual
BingoBoingo: So, can anyone else spot what is wrong in this comparison? http://openbenchmarking.org/result/1412060-LI-KFREEBSD879
assbot: Debian 8.0 Jessie - KFreeBSD Vs. GNU Linux Benchmarks - OpenBenchmarking.org ... ( http://bit.ly/1GKKz13 )
BingoBoingo: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=895413.0 << Oh Shit
assbot: NOTIFICARE IMPORTANTĂ: vă rugăm să va retrageți toate fondurile din BTCXchange ... ( http://bit.ly/1IWyp9i )
Vexual: nope, if the debian snu comp is an ascii style quiz, then i fail
BingoBoingo: Vexual: Well, jsut compare the hardware specs on the test rigs. Notice anything that doesn't match?
Vexual: no
BingoBoingo: Well, are the processors and storage devices the same?
Vexual: well storage is different, but i don't know the descriptors, so i cant say how
BingoBoingo: Well Note that Debian/kFreeBSD's one truly poor area of performance is Disk operations and their disk ran off of an external enclosure while the Debian/linux SSD ran off of... Sata
Vexual: yeah im no ttoo sure what that means... theres another level to the disk operations?
BingoBoingo: That benchmark was done by the phoronix guy who has pretty much been full Pettering since the pulse audio suck
BingoBoingo: Yeah
Vexual: t what purpose?
BingoBoingo: Drink more, let the groundhog lead you to the truth
BingoBoingo: !up Vexual
Vexual: is it careful about how fast the ssd dies?
Vexual: i can't read italian: ill just have the spaghetti
mircea_popescu: lol such drama
mircea_popescu: lol check out BingoBoingo speaking romanian
Vexual: that was romainian?
Vexual: it'd very like italian
fluffypony: romance languages all come from Italian
mircea_popescu: italian comes from romanian
fluffypony: agh
fluffypony: Latin
fluffypony: can't type
mircea_popescu: lol
fluffypony: they all come from Vulgar Latin
Vexual: alll my favourite bakers pretend to be italian
mircea_popescu: romanian is way more vulgar.
fluffypony: lol
mircea_popescu: romanian is so vulgar it turns a prick into a sister's wife.
Vexual: and cake to poo
mircea_popescu: that's a myth.
Vexual: depends where you get it from
mircea_popescu: sperm, blood, piss and vinegar.
Vexual: whaddaya homeick?
Vexual: dealing with red vinegar
Vexual: id say it's very much interchzangeable
Vexual: whats the dollar rate on the street now?
Vexual: and whyz it called blue? is it porno, or people just dont like grey?
Vexual: it's a bit porno isnt it?
Vexual leches
Vexual: ;;seen peted
gribble: I have not seen peted.
Vexual: i forgot to tell him where to trade coin
fluffypony: he changed his nick to peter_abraham_ezekial_dushenkovski
Vexual: yeah, i can't spell it
mircea_popescu: lol
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7857 @ 0.00061794 = 4.8552 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8590 @ 0.00060423 = 5.1903 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26512 @ 0.0006022 = 15.9655 BTC [-] {2}
cazalla: looks like Luke-Jr upset the redditors
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27050 @ 0.00060636 = 16.402 BTC [+] {3}
jurov: cazalla link?
cazalla: front page of /r/bitcoin jurov
jurov: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2pfgjg/exposed_lukejr_plans_on_forcing_blacklists_on_all/ prolly this
assbot: Exposed: Luke-Jr plans on forcing blacklists on all Gentoo bitcoin users by default, for the second time : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1zlqr5s )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28088 @ 0.00058039 = 16.302 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4691 @ 0.000575 = 2.6973 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8800 @ 0.000575 = 5.06 BTC [-]
cazalla: hosting an early xmas luncheon tmw, my contribution is the best potato salad in ze world, beetroot relish to go with cheeses and rocket dip, the rocket i grow myself
cazalla: of course, i am getting stuck into tmw's booze, tonight
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3500 @ 0.000575 = 2.0125 BTC [-]
davout: cazalla: you see a potato salad, i see a potential IPO
cazalla: i was gonna open a chicken shop ya know
cazalla: bbq chicken, burgers, salads.. no-one will pay for quality, or not enough people to warrant it and the long hours
davout: slaughtered on order? i'd hit that
mircea_popescu: but then you got high ?
davout: blergh
cazalla: nah, died on the vine
cazalla: davout, no demand for rabbit burger
mats: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2pfgjg/exposed_lukejr_plans_on_forcing_blacklists_on_all/cmwg5an >> 'i can't be bothered to read the notes'
assbot: MagicalBux comments on Exposed: Luke-Jr plans on forcing blacklists on all Gentoo bitcoin users by default, for the second time ... ( http://bit.ly/1zlM1qs )
cazalla: as for chicken shops.. you cannot find a single legitimate charchoal chicken shop anywhere here these days
cazalla: they have all converted to infrared ovens yet persist with advertising themselves as charcoal chicken
cazalla: few ok lebanese chicken shops around but eh.. fkn muslims
mats: why the islamophobia
cazalla: why not?
cazalla: big thing here atm is for leftists to tweet #illridewithyou to show support for muslims in australia on public transport
cazalla: any woman wearing a hajib who is scared for her life can find someone tweeting that to ride on the train safely with, that's the idea anyway
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16650 @ 0.00058009 = 9.6585 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15700 @ 0.00057481 = 9.0245 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: o that kind of riding
thestringpuller: cazalla: Luke-Jr strikes again! The power rangers have to burn cash to survive it seems.
mats: i wonder what its like for Luke-Jr to be opposed so strongly by people that share similar political beliefs
mats: anarchist types are rare enough, and this overlap with people that understand the technical aspects of bitcoin are even fewer
thestringpuller: this is where Luke-Jr looks at his logs and says, "You know I can hear what you're saying"
mats: bend the knee already. you know you're wrong.
thestringpuller: no one wants to abdicate their imaginary throne.
mats: maybe its more insidious than we know, what if he was caught selling methamphetamine on the side when he was broke and is now enslaved by an agent?
mats: perhaps i'm giving him too much credit but i get the impression he's an intelligent guy and knows hes doing dumb shit
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23700 @ 0.00057994 = 13.7446 BTC [+]
mats: i am of course talking about #b-a's opposition to him, not wutever redditards
thestringpuller: Perhaps this can be said of Gavin, hence tell tale signs of his comromisation.
thestringpuller: compromisation*
thestringpuller: the other power rangers I do not know. But jgarzik definitely publicly stated he'd like to see a GPG-like implementation in pure JS, which is mind boggling for a supposed intelligent person to say.
mats: are you in the bay now thestringpuller? i read something about vmware earlier
davout: thestringpuller: there's nothing wrong in itself with js, its using it in a browser that sounds a bit weird
thestringpuller: davout: exactly!
thestringpuller: do you really trust Chrome or Firefox to store your MPEx GPG key?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5200 @ 0.00057471 = 2.9885 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: mats: AirWatch, which is owned by VMWare.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2328 @ 0.00057994 = 1.3501 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 1666 @ 0.0012 = 1.9992 BTC
mats: ah, cool
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18900 @ 0.0005834 = 11.0263 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14400 @ 0.0005831 = 8.3966 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: !up soypirate
asciilifeform: speaking of ru central bank >> http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2014/12/can-anybody-find-me-central-banker-to.html
assbot: ClubOrlov: Can anybody find me... a central banker to love? ... ( http://bit.ly/1IXEJgQ )
jurov amusingly notices the hate on python and waits for google to eventually, but inevitably release incompatible go update
asciilifeform: it is why single-vendor (how else) 'implementation as standard' is fundamentally retarded.
BingoBoingo: Symbolics LISP is an incompatible upate from Brick LISP
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: pre-dated the ansi standard effort
BingoBoingo: Sure. Baudot predated ansi text standards too.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: there were other interesting lisps of the period - xerox's 'interlisp' (and its environment) being perhaps the most noteworthy
asciilifeform: interestingly, there is a xerox lisp machine emulator for msdos, of all things, 'medley.' i have never located a copy.
BingoBoingo: If only Xerox had enough crazy to venture beyond the paper business with any conviction.
asciilifeform: xerox parc did exist.
asciilifeform: went to the same hell as bell labs.
asciilifeform: quite arguably, both were largesse of monopolists, and died with the monopolies.
BingoBoingo: Well many small towns maintain libraries gifted in another act of monopolist largesse, but similarly the handling of those gifts has decayed in a cargo-cult manner.
asciilifeform: i'm told they threw out the books in many places, in favour of rows upon rows of winblows terminals, public 3d printer stalls, etc.
BingoBoingo: They have, but even before then were decaying as books were replaced by crappy fascimiles of books.
BingoBoingo: Not Xerox copies, but bad faith imitators of the book form.
BingoBoingo: Xerox copies of worn actual books would have been fine. Many "special collections" departments do that for actual papers of interest.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25600 @ 0.00059043 = 15.115 BTC [+] {3}
asciilifeform: 'While most regular Russians go to Sberbank to pay their utility bills and municipal fees, a few highly irregular Russians (and a few foreigners among them) go to Sberbank to sit in posh offices in front of trading terminals and gamble away the regular Russians' savings. The regular Russians are rather upset about this state of affairs, and 70% of them state in opinion polls that they consider currency manipulation to be a cri
asciilifeform: me and want the criminals stopped and punished.' (mr. o)
BingoBoingo: It's hard to think much of a library that would have as part of its collection and the like ISBN-13: 978-0672313004
asciilifeform: 'spam like a pro in 24 fortnights!'
BingoBoingo: Handle Turd studio X15, Chapter 9, Turdthenware
BingoBoingo: Bowl and mugs
asciilifeform pays very, very dearly for access to proper library
asciilifeform: though sc4mz0rs: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-12-2014#952756 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 13-12-2014 22:32:17; asciilifeform: speaking of my rotten old uni, i'm no longer permitted to read the electronic journals for any amount of money
BingoBoingo: It might be time to audit the art classes.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform the painter
BingoBoingo was suspecting more along the lines of metalworking.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo probably knows that a full-scale university in usa does not normally have useful courses like metalwork.
asciilifeform: déclassé.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Many actually have a perverted version. Lives in Art department.
BingoBoingo: Focus on 18th century state of the art casting and blacksmithing
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: they'll cover basic welding, yes. art school here even has own scrapyard.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21905 @ 0.00060117 = 13.1686 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28695 @ 0.00061354 = 17.6055 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: at any rate, the game is not worth the candles at roughly 8k usd/yr. for buying access to e-journals in this way.
BingoBoingo: There's got to be single credit hour courses somewhere to audit.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: 'mandatory fees'
BingoBoingo: Ah, they don't pro-rate for part time?
asciilifeform: nope.
asciilifeform: when i look for a specific archival piece, i have contacts who can get it. just takes time. the point of full access is: idle browsing.
BingoBoingo: Yes.
mats: aren't there handheld scanners that'd resolve this for you?
asciilifeform: mats: we're discussing e-journals
asciilifeform: mats: my university no longer gets paper copies of journals.
mats: bummer
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The probably do get some. Just not for the subjects that interest.
BingoBoingo: And not for the general library
asciilifeform: interestingly, spy cameras are no longer necessary there. they've installed public 'face-up' scanners that go straight from dead tree to jpeg on usb drive, gratis
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: they had paper journals as recently as two years ago. but now zapped.
asciilifeform: i'm told that scarcely anyone read them in dead tree.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Even in the medical and law libraries?
asciilifeform: we've neither on this campus
BingoBoingo: Ah
BingoBoingo: scoopbot -fetch
scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by Bingo Boingo: http://qntra.net/2014/12/dying-media-company-seeks-lifeline-with-bitcoin/
mats: it scoops
BingoBoingo: Indeed
mats: ;;calc [ticker --currency RUB --last]/[ticker --currency USD --last]
gribble: 72.5295
mats: it moves
mats: http://www.mindshare.com/files/ebooks/firewire%20system%20architecture%20(2nd%20edition).pdf
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ACfwlW )
BingoBoingo: Ah, firewire. Another example of a toy standard accidentaly'ing its way to "professional" standard.
mats: mindshare has other cool things about AGP, PCI, PCIe, USB, SATA, ...
BingoBoingo: Ah
mats: i tried to find docs on Thunderbolt on the internets but after comparing notes with other people, they're still under NDA
thestringpuller: what's that new port they are putting in laptops...
thestringpuller: ;;google thunderbolt
gribble: Thunderbolt Technology Community: <https://thunderbolttechnology.net/>; Apple - Thunderbolt: Next-generation high-speed I/O technology.: <https://www.apple.com/thunderbolt/>; Thunderbolt (interface) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbolt_(interface)>
mats: p sure thats it
thestringpuller: i thought it was neat that it's essentially an external PCIe slot
thestringpuller: waiting for the day they start selling external gpu's for laptops
mats: the thoroughput is amazing
thestringpuller: i would hope so if it claims to be a PCIe port
mats: iirc you can push to two 5k displays
thestringpuller: yea
BingoBoingo: http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/national/2014/12/15/nasas-349-million-monument-to-its-drift/
assbot: NASA’s $349 million monument to its drift | The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1zmJbl7 )
thestringpuller: danielpbarron didn't realize you were based in CT.
thestringpuller: Connecticutians unite!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23129 @ 0.00061482 = 14.2202 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5200 @ 0.00059642 = 3.1014 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: so boys and girls, i will be taking a vacation
mircea_popescu: prolly see each other again sporadically until 2015
mircea_popescu: so merry xmas and a happy new year!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 4000 @ 0.0012 = 4.8 BTC
mike_c: happy holidays
BingoBoingo: Alright, time to generate some serious logs!
mircea_popescu: tyty
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu is lying.
thestringpuller: he's always on vacation
thestringpuller: i think the term is `retirement`
BingoBoingo: I thought he had to chase all of those topless servers yesterday
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for Yes on "Light Sweet Crude Oil (WTI) Mar 2015 to drop under $50 before Feb 2015 " http://bitbet.us/bet/1082/ Odds: 51(Y):49(N) by coin, 49(Y):51(N) by weight. Total bet: 5.5594 BTC. Current weight: 84,068.
[]bot: Bet created: "Russian Index MICEX to drop under 1000 before Feb 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1084/
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for Yes on "Russian Index MICEX to drop under 1000 before Feb 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1084/ Odds: 93(Y):7(N) by coin, 93(Y):7(N) by weight. Total bet: 1.1 BTC. Current weight: 99,987.
BingoBoingo: !s parachute
assbot: 87 results for 'parachute' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=parachute
[]bot: Bet created: "Russian Ruble to rally to 50 RUB or less per USD before Feb" http://bitbet.us/bet/1085/
danielpbarron: 11:27 <+thestringpuller> danielpbarron didn't realize you were based in CT. << where you at?
BingoBoingo: scoopbot -fetch
scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by Bingo Boingo: http://qntra.net/2014/12/spanish-cybersquat-raided-in-counter-terrorism-operation/
BingoBoingo: http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=view&type=submission&id=4061977 << Might as well try this again.
assbot: Spanish CyberSquat Raided in "Counter-Terror" Operation - Slashdot ... ( http://bit.ly/1vW8N27 )
BingoBoingo: Appear qntra has the English language scoop
danielpbarron: https://twitter.com/Dawn_Kopecki/status/544890279602704384
assbot: In any disagreement between reality and belief, reality always wins. http://t.co/M9awfudAD1 /hashtag/bitcoin?src=hash-assets /Mircea_Popescu /Dawn_Kopecki
thestringpuller: danielpbarron: i was born in hartford, so it's always gonna be "home" to me on some level.
thestringpuller: I lived in Windsor until I was 2 then we moved away.
thestringpuller: i yearn for the day I can return
danielpbarron: I was born in New Haven, grew up in Deep River and Westbrook
mthreat: Pepe's pizza!
danielpbarron: psh, Louis Lunch!
mats: http://networkfilter.blogspot.com/2014/12/security-openbsd-vs-freebsd.html
assbot: Network Filter: SECURITY : OPENBSD VS FREEBSD ... ( http://bit.ly/1vWc3KR )
thestringpuller: danielpbarron: new haven has some of the best pizza ever
thestringpuller: new england in general has great pizza
thestringpuller: now i'm hungry for wilsons pizza...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25200 @ 0.00060271 = 15.1883 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: !up nezZario
BingoBoingo: !up [KS]
BingoBoingo: !up tryphe
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18900 @ 0.00061305 = 11.5866 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6224 @ 0.00061794 = 3.8461 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 860 @ 0.0012 = 1.032 BTC
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20179 @ 0.00061124 = 12.3342 BTC [-]
Luke-Jr: mats: I don't know how many people here actually have similar political positions as me.. probably few? ☟︎
BingoBoingo: Luke-Jr: You are a needle inside of a haystack, inside of another haystack full of needles
jurov: Luke-Jr: i really don't know how many people think maintaining blacklists like you do is a good idea
jurov: prolly not many ☟︎
Luke-Jr: heck, even I wish there was a better solution
BingoBoingo: When Dogecoin a thing, pointing idiots in that direction was a great solution.
Luke-Jr: it died?
mats: there isn't a problem, you've contrived a solution to something that doesn't exist and doesn't matter
danielpbarron: Luke-Jr, yeah along with all the other "cryptocurrencies" http://trilema.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies/
assbot: The woes of Altcoin, or why there is no such thing as "cryptocurrencies" pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1zt6nge )
Luke-Jr: mats: sticking your fingers in your ears and pretending there is no problem, doesn't help anyone
danielpbarron: "does transaction have fee attached?" "yes." "so ok then, it isn't spam." "no, it's still spam."
Luke-Jr: that non-argument is getting old
mats: explain how anyone is inconvenienced by 'spam in the blockchain'
Luke-Jr: mats: lol, seriously?
Luke-Jr: mats: you're aware 20 GB of the blockchain's 30 GB is spam?
mats: so?
Luke-Jr: so that's a lot of people who no longer run a full bitcoin node
Luke-Jr: and it will keep growing
Luke-Jr: until only big banks can run Bitcoin
mike_c: if 30gb is a blocker how long would they have run a node anyway?
mats: lol.
danielpbarron: Luke-Jr, so? as long as my bank lets me authorize account actions via GPG, sounds good
xanthyos: WHOAS
mats: whats the cost per gigabyte of HDD storage? 0.05USD?
mike_c: ;;calc 150/4000
gribble: 0.0375
mike_c: ^ per gb.
Luke-Jr: yes, let's pretend storage is the bottleneck so we can make it seem trivial.
mats: this is not a problem, and won't be a problem for as long as the block size remains the same.
Luke-Jr: sit in #bitcoin for a few days
mats: storage isn't the bottleneck, and it isn't the concern that's keeping anyone from operating a full node
Luke-Jr: and watch how many people give up on running a Bitcoin node because it takes so long to sync initially
mats: the concerns of idiots are not the concerns of people whose opinions matter
danielpbarron: isn't the bottle neck the block size? and isn't it a good thing that such a thing is limited and therefor has value
BingoBoingo: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2phhuq/cybersquat_associated_with_darkwallet_raided_in/cmwr82b
assbot: dunand comments on Cybersquat Associated with DarkWallet Raided in Spain ... ( http://bit.ly/1zt76y3 )
mats: if something as inconsequential as time to sync keeps people from operating a full node
mats: wait til they realize how annoying it is to maintain the node for years
mats: you'd do better to work on something that matters, like incentives to operate a node
mats: ...and relays
danielpbarron: incentives for nodes don't have to be written into the code
jurov: i'm running bitcoind fine on $100 minitx mobo with spinning rust hdd.. and it sems to have enough capacity for next 5 years
jurov: but Luke-Jr insists on pretending there's bottlenecks so he can continue with his powertrip
jurov: i really don't get the whining
jurov: "it doesn't fit in my free vps anymore bleeeee".. stfu freeloaders
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3NSAZV9.txt )
BingoBoingo: !b 2 ✂︎
BingoBoingo: !up soypirate
mats: well there you have it.
Luke-Jr: it doesn't fit on my phone even with the biggest uSD card available, you insensitive clod
Luke-Jr: frankly, even if it did, I shouldn't be forced to process spam
mats: ill add this to the list of irrational things you believe in
Luke-Jr: rational*
danielpbarron: Luke-Jr's thing is kinda like the real bitcoin foundation's thing, in that they are both attempts to make a more sane node (from the point of view of the author)
danielpbarron: except Luke-Jr is going about it in the wrong channels (any channel that isn't -assets), but that's probably because there isn't much sympathy for "it isn't fair i'm being forced bla bla bla" in here
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 3260 @ 0.0012268 = 3.9994 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: Luke-Jr: bitcoin on your phone? that's phenomenally retarded.
Luke-Jr: which is exactly why it's a good fit for this channel
fluffypony: fits on my iPhone
fluffypony: can't help you if you're poor, although there's always SPV clients for people like you
mats: there are 128gb sd cards, in the interest of humoring this discussion
fluffypony: yeah, and I have a bunch of 64gb microSD cards
mats: but yes. be less poor.
fluffypony: I use them on my GoPro H4's just fine
ben_vulpes: how exactly do these blacklists work? if a miner processes a transaction with a "banned" address - what then?
Luke-Jr: ben_vulpes: basically all it does is stop your node from participating in the spam
Luke-Jr: if a miner mines it, you have to validate it obviously
ben_vulpes: just doesn't relay the transaction?
ben_vulpes: why not put that in bitcoin.conf, eh?
Luke-Jr: right
ben_vulpes: instead of the code?
Luke-Jr: more effort
danielpbarron: no sane node will reject a block that the rest of the network thinks is valid, so this blacklist thing is more of a waving of hands that amounts to nothing
ben_vulpes: lol
Luke-Jr: also less efficient
ben_vulpes: "it's too hard to do things correctly, so i'm just going to ram my idiocy into the codebase"
ben_vulpes: "less efficient" << hm?
Luke-Jr: you'll note I never proposed it for mainline
Luke-Jr: ben_vulpes: less efficient because suddenly you have to parse it out and such
Luke-Jr: I guess you could build the array at startup, but it's not really much easier to modify bitcoin.conf than to modify the patch
Luke-Jr: keep in mind Gentoo users are compiling it anyway
Luke-Jr: it's not some binary
Luke-Jr: so they can just modify the patch and drop it in /etc
Luke-Jr: if they want to customise it
ben_vulpes: "it's easier to hard code configuration into the source than read it as configuration at runtime"
ben_vulpes: no shit, sherlock.
ben_vulpes: this attitude has lead to all sorts of braindamage hard-coded in the source, like your commit introducing lock configuration into the mainline client.
Luke-Jr: out of curiousity, what is "lock configuration"?
danielpbarron: this "spam on the blockchain" is only a thing because blocks go unfilled for the most part
fluffypony: ben_vulpes: you're missing Luke-Jr's point. in 20 years time he's going to simply have more aggressive anti-spam checks so that the blockchain can fit on his smart watch.
fluffypony: maybe just randomly culling old blocks will be something he'll innovate
undata: why does bitcoin have to be on his smartwatch
fluffypony: undata: to quote the man of the hour - "[21:40:47] <+Luke-Jr>it doesn't fit on my phone even with the biggest uSD card available, you insensitive clod"
fluffypony: stop being insensitive, undata
fluffypony: you clod
ben_vulpes: Luke-Jr: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/db.cpp#L89
assbot: bitcoin/db.cpp at master · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1sAZZnU )
undata: personally there's not a smart-watch manufacturer out there whose OS security I'd trust with my coin
Luke-Jr: ben_vulpes: and how do you get by thinking I have anything to do with that?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 200 @ 0.00827016 = 1.654 BTC [-] {29}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2000 @ 0.0012268 = 2.4536 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18616 @ 0.00061122 = 11.3785 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: $ cd bitcoin
ben_vulpes: $ cd src
ben_vulpes: $ git blame db.cpp | grep locks
ben_vulpes: 148e107d src/db.cpp (Luke Dashjr 2012-05-22 19:51:13 +0000 125) dbenv.set_lk_max_locks(10000);
ben_vulpes: $ git show 148e107d
ben_vulpes: oh is that just the mock?
Luke-Jr: …
undata: ;;rate -1 Luke-Jr hardcoding config, that's a paddlin
gribble: Error: 'Luke-Jr' is not a valid integer.
undata: ;;rate Luke-Jr -1 hardcoding config, that's a paddlin
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of -1 for user Luke-Jr has been recorded.
davout: lol Luke-Jr how are you? and what are you doing here?
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1ZYNEJM.txt )
thestringpuller: !b 1 ✂︎
danielpbarron: ;;later tell kakobrekla i think there's a typo in the topic of #bitcoin-assets-trades, unless "exchages" is an inside joke to which i'm not privy
gribble: The operation succeeded.
Luke-Jr: davout: observing trolls, it seems
davout: by "trolls" you mean "heretics" ?
Luke-Jr: davout: no, they aren't even heretics
Adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=16-12-2014#954794 << difficult to tell, not knowing what exactly they are ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 16-12-2014 19:04:39; Luke-Jr: mats: I don't know how many people here actually have similar political positions as me.. probably few?
danielpbarron: I know he's pro gun / seen him get banned from -otc for that
Luke-Jr: Adlai: I favour absolute monarchy and small government.
Adlai: how do you choose monarchs?
Adlai: plural, because they will likely get assasinated, by disgruntled humans or ebola
Luke-Jr: Adlai: bootstrapping is a serious problem, I don't know how you'd come up with a reasonable "first monarch" especially today
thestringpuller: Adlai: I thought monarchs were chosen by the gods
Luke-Jr: Adlai: once it's going, though, the current monarch should be qualified to pick/raise his successor
thestringpuller: wait that was pharoah
danielpbarron: you don't choose a king, silly
undata: this reasoning by metaphor thing "it's spam! why? uh... because I don't want it!" is idiotic
Adlai: what criterea would you expect a monarch to use when picking a successor? how can they tell whether their trusted advisor is more worthy than their firstborn, or sift through private sector candidates?
danielpbarron: spam is anything i don't like
undata: and it's an excuse to create some central maintainer of blacklists
undata: danielpbarron: righto
Adlai: let's leave blacklists out of the discussion, there's enough room for that on reddit
Luke-Jr: undata: attack straw-men all you like
undata: Luke-Jr: it subverts the very *idea* of bitcoin.
Luke-Jr: Adlai: it's not a matter of worthiness, it's a matter of competence.
Luke-Jr: undata: not in the slightest.
Luke-Jr: undata: but I guess you might think so, if you believe the trolls claims
undata: ;;rate Luke-Jr -3 cannot discern dissent from trolling
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user Luke-Jr has changed from -1 to -3.
Luke-Jr: misrepresenting the truth (aka lying) is a tell-tale sign of trolling
Luke-Jr: not dissent
Adlai: Luke-Jr: the question still stands. how does humanity pick a monarch, or conclude that a currently serving (because it's both a privilege and a duty) monarch is incompetent, and find a better replacement?
Adlai is genuinely curious and has very few opinions on the matter
Luke-Jr: Adlai: in the rare case of a bad monarch, the pope can depose him
Adlai: it's quite interesting to watch people choose leaders
Adlai: well, the pope seems a bit busy these days to be dealing with monarchs
Adlai: although I must say that his PR people are doing an excellent job
undata: and if the pope is bad, the meta-pope will depose him
undata: god help us if we need a meta-meta-pope though.
Luke-Jr: Adlai: there hasn't been a pope in 60 years, don't let the fraud controlling the Vatican deceive you
danielpbarron: well now..
assbot: Vexual +v failed; L1: 0, L2: 0
Adlai doesn't follow papal news well enough to discernr
Adlai: !up Vexual
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10148 @ 0.00061779 = 6.2693 BTC [+] {2}
Adlai: I'm just curious at what point one person decides that the mere word of another person is gospel
Luke-Jr: sec phone
danielpbarron: Luke-Jr, does that mean all the people attending catholic churches today are on their way to hell for following a false christ?
Adlai: I'm not sure you get punished for having been deceived
Adlai: assuming that, had the deception not occurred, you'd have bene OK
danielpbarron: oh you most surely do
Adlai: so a sufficiently effective deception can cause a perfectly "good" person to get punished?
Luke-Jr: undata: if the pope is bad at the same time as a monarch goes bad, God help us
danielpbarron: Adlai, there are none that are good
undata: Luke-Jr: *guillotines help us
Adlai: and if God is bad too, let's just hope satoshi returns
Adlai hasn't discussed theology in a long time, and it's usually with jews
Luke-Jr: danielpbarron: no Catholic churches today follow the antipopes; those who do follow the antipopes and attend his churches are at risk of being damned, yes (though as Adlai infers, their culpability depends)
Adlai: last time I met a christian irl was almost 6 years ago
Luke-Jr: danielpbarron: Christians have a responsibility to learn the Faith, and are guilty if deceived by their own neglegence
danielpbarron: Luke-Jr, nice
davout: Luke-Jr: what's a "real" pope?
Adlai: how do you distinguish between a real pope and a fraud?
Adlai: maybe the vatican has been a fraud for more than 60 years
Luke-Jr: davout: one who is Catholic and properly elected
Luke-Jr: Adlai: well, you know someone ineligible cannot be a pope, at least
Adlai: have you personally verified the burned ballots of each cardinal?
Adlai is not well-versed in the eligibility of the last few [anti]popes
Luke-Jr: Adlai: the become pope, one must first be a Catholic; the antipopes in Rome aren't Catholic
kakobrekla: Luke-Jr i think you need to shut the fuck up about this god delusion you keep having
Adlai thinks people who think they aren't deluded need to be a bit more diplomatic about their opinions
Vexual: Luke-Jr: Is it the current one that really annoyed you?
undata: one isn't called to entertain every form of idiocy on equal terms
davout: Luke-Jr: how is the current "anti-pope" not catholic?
kakobrekla: Adlai and be more political and more pretending too
Luke-Jr: Vexual: all heretical antipopes "annoy" me
Luke-Jr: davout: he denies Catholicism
davout: Luke-Jr: at what point does your interpretation of catholicism differ from his?
danielpbarron: what hapens if a pope and an antipope come in contact with each other?
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/36J0MZN.txt )
davout: !b 1 ✂︎
Adlai: kakobrekla: i don't think i've been politically correct or pretending. in case there's any doubt, i also think that there's some level of delusion involved... but i also value conversation over insult
Adlai: thx davout
Adlai: :P
kakobrekla: Adlai you cant converse about nontopic
BingoBoingo: kakobrekla: And don't forget more cookies http://www.mybestdaysever.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/IMG_4364.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/16q17Rg )
Adlai: oh it got danielpbarron
davout: Adlai: that was the point actually
Adlai: /topic
Luke-Jr: davout: many points, by now; their key heresy is called Modernism - the belief that doctrine changes over time http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10415a.htm
assbot: CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Modernism ... ( http://bit.ly/16q1bjT )
Luke-Jr: (using that heresy, they then proceed to deny other doctrines easily)
BingoBoingo: Come on Guys, there hasn't been a Pope since Brutus stabbed Kaiser
Adlai: there hasn't been rock since jesus built his church on it
Luke-Jr: http://www.cmri.org/02-v2decrees.html contrasts some of the Modernists' core heresies with the Church's teaching
assbot: Decrees of Vatican II Compared with Past Infallible Church Teaching ... ( http://bit.ly/16q1drZ )
Vexual: Pretty clothes and incence, yep, it's catholic
Adlai: but at the end of the day, we are just humans interpreting the words of other humans
jborkl: Luke, how do you understand math and science, yet still hold onto these beliefs? I really do not understand how that happens
Luke-Jr: Adlai: not really
Adlai: some of those are written, some of those were made up yesterday; but the situation is still the same
Luke-Jr: jborkl: science led me to these beliefs
kakobrekla: jborkl lack of oxygen in the first couple of minutes of birth does that.
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0G32VS8.txt )
BingoBoingo: !b 1 ✂︎
BingoBoingo: Since MP is on vacation all of the cookies for kakobrekla http://thecraftingfoodie.com/images/old/6a014e8748a9fb970d019aff7aae92970b-pi.jpg
kakobrekla: lol ty.
cazalla: BingoBoingo, my missus makes things like that
BingoBoingo: cazalla: Probably because they are delicious
adlai: Luke-Jr: my issue with anti-modernism is that we only really know what's modern. anybody who tells you that something isn't modern, and is the original doctrine, could just have made that up yesterday (or N years ago), and been fooling everybody ever since
Luke-Jr: adlai: modernism does not mean "modern"
Luke-Jr: adlai: Catholicism has always made a big deal of any attempts to change doctrine; one couldn't do that unnoticed
adlai: so, you're trusting the people involved in catholicism AT EVERY POINT IN TIME to not have changed it
Luke-Jr: anyhow, the modernist antipopes can be cited as using the heresy modernism to justify their other heresies
adlai: who knows wtf happened in the 13th century during a famine
Luke-Jr: adlai: none could have changed it, that's my point
Luke-Jr: adlai: you're also ignoring divine providence - God wouldn't allow any such an attempt to succeed
BingoBoingo: Anyways the legit Catholic Church historically is the Cyproit church.
Luke-Jr: adlai: (and if you assume God is fake, then there's no basis for caring about Catholicism, so that's not really an argument)
adlai: why wouldn't he, as a test, to guage how many people are suckers, and will believe what people say from under a fancy hat or behind a pulpit?
BingoBoingo: !up brussels
adlai has no assumptions about God, maybe we should define that concept first...
Luke-Jr: adlai: God has many times allowed heretics to gain power - but He promised that His Church would prevail
Luke-Jr: adlai: during the Arian crisis, there was only a few bishops who remained Catholic
Luke-Jr: yet in the end, the Church survived
fluffypony: [22:59:44] <+Adlai>Luke-Jr: the question still stands. how does humanity pick a monarch <- well humanity sure as fuck didn't choose Luke-Jr to be the Bitcoin monarch.
Luke-Jr: fluffypony: nor did I ever claim to be one
fluffypony: so brave, Luke-Jr
fluffypony: so brave
asciilifeform: !up diametric
diametric: yay i can join in the games now
Luke-Jr: lol
Luke-Jr ponders if he can continue this from the car
diametric: so first, as a former gentoo dev, Luke-Jr go fuck yourself.
fluffypony: diametric: I love you already
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3PB43CH.txt )
danielpbarron: !b 2 ✂︎
adlai: that can probably be continued from the car
Luke-Jr: diametric: no u
adlai: Luke-Jr: i'm interested to hear how "science led me to these beliefs"
Luke-Jr wonders what kind of former Gentoo dev hates USE flags
adlai: probably the kind that doesn't like when patch names aren't consistent across package versions :)
Luke-Jr: adlai: basically I easily refuted many false religions, then found I couldn't do the same for Catholicism
Luke-Jr: definitely can't do that justice, much less from the car, though LOL
BingoBoingo: Science lead dank to living out of a storage unit...
Luke-Jr: adlai: patch names?
asciilifeform: picture if you had to set USE="-cyanide" or everything you put in your mouth will be cyanide-enabled by default, and no one will see it fit to warn you.
Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: except in this case, it's actually a good thing and not cyanide, and you get a clear warning before you install it
BingoBoingo: Good to who?
BingoBoingo: Your phone?
Luke-Jr: the only reason a rational person would disable it, is if they wanted to harm Bitcoin.
asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: so far you have failed to make a case why your turd is a sausage and we should in fact be eating with relish.
adlai: Luke-Jr: the names of use flags. the latest hubbub seems to be people complaining about the change from "ljr" to "extra"
Luke-Jr: adlai: I changed it back, since there does seem to be preference for "ljr" now and the reason makes sense.
adlai: (in addition to all of the last hubbub)
Luke-Jr: adlai: I had only changed it to "extras" on request from someone in the previous thread
danielpbarron: "this transaction is spam because it isn't associated with a USG approved ID and taxed accordingly"
Luke-Jr: danielpbarron: I said nothing of the sort.
adlai: lololol
danielpbarron: guilty conscience much?
Luke-Jr: danielpbarron: no, just stamping out your strawman
fluffypony: Catholicism is a snare and a racket. If you're going to have belief in a higher power, at least choose a religion that isn't controlled by a central body with billions of USD at stake.
Luke-Jr: danielpbarron: your argument is like saying "cyanide is bad, so I shouldn't consume vegetables"
asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: 'spam' debate aside - how do you intend to filter the dice txes when the dicemeisters let go of the idiocy of reusing addrs ?
adlai: it's funny how quickly people assume that all foes are agents of one arch-nemesis, when really just... shit happens. nature is not your friend. etc
Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: no idea, maybe impossible then
adlai: fluffypony: well, Luke-Jr just said recently that the [current] vatican is no longer an authority on catholicism
asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: so surrender now. if your mod had any traction at all, the victims would escape within seconds.
fluffypony: adlai: lol
fluffypony: adlai: hate the player not the game, and all that
Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: why? as long as it's easy to filter spam, might as well
adlai: fluffypony: hate leads to the usg side of the force. just play, have fun, go home, hope you don't get mugged on the way.
fluffypony: it must suck to be universally accepted as mind-numbingly stupid and yet not have the intelligence to be introspective enough to see it within yourself and change for the better
asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: i dare guess that much of the hostility to your 'spam filter' mod comes from the expectation that it is a 'camel's nose in the tent' for a dynamic, centrally-controlled censor mechanism. because anything short of that would simply dissipate like a fart in the wind in the face of any kind of organized resistence whatsoever.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7130 @ 0.00060758 = 4.332 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7170 @ 0.00060562 = 4.3423 BTC [-] {2}
adlai wonders whether it's helpful to look at the potential attacks on bitcoin as spam to be censored... or as a challenge to be accepted
asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: even if we all despised the dice men as much as you did, named filter is still monumentally stupid;
asciilifeform: ;;google enumerating badness
gribble: The Six Dumbest Ideas in Computer Security: <http://www.ranum.com/security/computer_security/editorials/dumb/>; Enumerating Badness: The latest way Facebook conspires to ...: <http://www.oxy.edu/information-resources/blog/enumerating-badness-latest-way-facebook-conspires-destroy-you>; The Six Dumbest Ideas in Computer Security.pdf: (1 more message)
adlai: ie, why is the debate about blacklists, and not scalability
fluffypony: asciilifeform: I fear with your efforts you're trying to teach a mentally challenged child how to interpret Chaucer...
asciilifeform: adlai: conv was about blacklists because an infamous fool who pushes blacklists logged on and started crapping into #b-a
Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: that would make sense; people seem to assume something monumentally stupid is worthless, but in practice it isn't. ☟︎
adlai: asciilifeform: well yes, this comment was aimed more at Luke-Jr
Luke-Jr: adlai: because the "debate" is run by trolls; the sane people have mostly been supportive once they learn what it's actually about
BingoBoingo: !s war has interest in you
assbot: 1 results for 'war has interest in you' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=war+has+interest+in+you
mats: the mental gymnastics involved here are very revealing
adlai: but the debate (no quotes needed, it's very real, otherwise you wouldn't be engaging it) is also a great waste of your energy
adlai: you. personally. Luke-Jr. are wasting energy on this.
BingoBoingo: !s you may not be interested in war
assbot: 5 results for 'you may not be interested in war' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=you+may+not+be+interested+in+war
asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: let's suppose that we agreed with your 'blockchain environmentalism' philosophy, and wished to expell the dice men. say they start to switch addrs daily. what will you propose as a counter-attack?
fluffypony: adlai: you should ask him how far his Tonal Bitcoin efforts went
asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: don't lie and say that it won't be a remote-updated kill list. because that's the only answer - other than surrender.
adlai: Luke-Jr: even if you succeed, you have admitted yourself that there are rather trivial ways for the entities you're trying to filter, to sidestep your filters
Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: no
Luke-Jr: adlai: yes, there is - but they haven't done it yet
Luke-Jr: adlai: for me, part of this isn't so much the spam filtering, as much as it is trying to combat monoculture
adlai: the arms race having not yet picked up speed is not exactly an invitation to speed it up
Luke-Jr: adlai: node operators are just outsourcing their decision-making to a central group of developers
Luke-Jr: this is a problem
asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: so you'll surrender if opponent so much as lifts a finger in opposition? or do you have some 'round two' answer that doesn't involve centrally-controlled zap lists.
adlai: that's true
BingoBoingo: Better places to fight monoculture.
adlai: Luke-Jr: why not make a patch that lets people dynamically enter filters into a running, compiled, program?
adlai: preferably through the QT interface because then I never have to know it exists
Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: there is a more long-term solution that would help the current case AND your proposed daily-changed-addresses case, which once implemented, I do plan to propose for mainlining
Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: but it does not involve any central lists
adlai: this doesn't need to be hardcoded precompilation
adlai: just let each running node choose [whether to, and] whom to filter
Luke-Jr: adlai: they already do - but it's "hardcoded" because that's simpler
asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: say what it is, then
BingoBoingo: Luke-Jr: Is this the "filter all address reuse" idea
Luke-Jr: adlai: any Gentoo user can customise the list easily
Luke-Jr: BingoBoingo: essentially, yes
Luke-Jr: brb, moving to car
diametric: jesus taking the wheel while you chat?
BingoBoingo: That broken thing.
fluffypony: lol
adlai: if a human can carry on a conversation while driving, then the social stigma against that conversation being digital is a failure of technology alone
BingoBoingo: I'm not very sure a given homo sapien at random can cary on a conversation while driving.
adlai: also "[adlai's dad] is one of the best drunk drivers I know" - one of his friends
Luke-Jr: diametric: wife is driving
adlai: BingoBoingo: I'm not sure a given homo "sapien" at random can carry on a conversation, period :P
adlai: (sapiens, sapientis...)
kakobrekla: <BingoBoingo> I'm not very sure a given homo sapien at random can cary on a conversation. < fixd
Luke-Jr: BingoBoingo: it isnt inherently broken
adlai: "im not sure random ppl can tlk rite" < moar fixd
BingoBoingo: Luke-Jr: Address reuse in certain cases has great privacy benefits.
Luke-Jr: BingoBoingo: ⁈
BingoBoingo: Luke-Jr: Services that reuse addresses across multiple customers help to conceal which customer funds are going in of and out of the service http://trilema.com/2014/why-exactly-reusing-bitcoin-addresses-strengthens-bitcoin-user-anonimity/
assbot: Why exactly reusing Bitcoin addresses strengthens Bitcoin user anonimity pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1sxK7Nt )
asciilifeform: reusing addrs may stengthen anonymity but increases your Luke-Jrability.
kakobrekla: idk why are you all still wasting time with someone who digs jesus. it sez on his forehead, 'idiot, can not be reasoned with'.
Luke-Jr: lolwut
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28200 @ 0.00061256 = 17.2742 BTC [+] {3}
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Sounds like if mainlined would be an occassion to go shopping for wagon wheels
Luke-Jr: anyhw no links for no
Luke-Jr: now
BingoBoingo: !up Elio19
davout: kakobrekla: something like this
Elio19: thanks
BingoBoingo: What brings you around here?
mats: i apologize for making this a topic of discussion
davout: kakobrekla: there are degrees in catholisrry tho
Luke-Jr: tbs, if thats MPs blog, I doubt it says anything sane
Elio19: BingoBoingo, im on vacation
BingoBoingo: Ah
mats: TSLA plunges below 200
BingoBoingo: First people leave here on vacation, and now people come here on vacation.
BingoBoingo: !up diametric
kakobrekla: davout sure, theres idiots who can tie shoes and theres idiots who cant.
diametric: BingoBoingo: thank you for enabling my laziness
BingoBoingo: It's just about naptime you your enablement is going to be hampered next time
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: You may interpret wagon wheel purchase however you like. I'll decline to offer the use case for such a versatile tool at the moment.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i only know of two uses - wagon, and breaking-on.
adlai: BingoBoingo: the argument in that blog post kinda assumes you can't distinguish between inputs from the same address
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I've seen them just sitting and littering a yard. That's a use.
BingoBoingo: adlai: Sure, if only one service does that. If common though confounds assumption of 1 identity 1 address
Luke-Jr: adlai: inputs arent even from addresses…
adlai: there's the example of several customer transactions to several business addresses, and several customer transactions to one business address; in both examples, you can see which customer funds have been spent where, and which haven't been touched.
adlai: in the case of multiple business addresses, it's easy, but in the case of the business using a single address, you can still see which input from the customer transactions was used
adlai is still far from sold on this whole address-reuse-helps-privacy thing
adlai: seems more like address-reuse-enables-lazyness
davout: i don't think address reuse enhances privacy either
adlai: all information deducible from one transaction graph is deducible from the other, and using unique addresses means that unspent transactions aren't [yet] linked to the business
adlai: /rant
adlai: /dogwalk
adlai: actually it's just beginning so an end tag is inappropriate. this is why XML is bad, kids.
mats: ;;ticker --market btce
gribble: BTC-E BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 321.2, Best ask: 322.768, Bid-ask spread: 1.56800, Last trade: 322.769, 24 hour volume: 7915.53133, 24 hour low: 320.0, 24 hour high: 340.0, 24 hour vwap: 330.0
mats: ;;calc [ticker --currency RUB --last]/[ticker --currency USD --last]
gribble: 69.685
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23900 @ 0.00061707 = 14.748 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25682 @ 0.00062091 = 15.9462 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: !up paxtoncamaro91