nubbins`: i wonder how mp's gonna cash out my stock warrant if he's got me on ignore?
nubbins`: "this stock warrant is valid forever or until you are mean to me"
cazalla: nubbins`, mp did say you are more than free to have another lord relay any messages
hanbot: jurov> !rate nubbins` 2 voice of sanity << jurov seriously, is yest/today's spewage what sanity is to you? are you out of yer mind?
nubbins`: cazalla i care little for what that scammer says
danielpbarron is fairly heavily invested in Eulora via his character who is one of the richest players in the world
nubbins`: he's free to wrap his head in plastic
nubbins`: hanbot weren't you told to shut up?
cazalla: nubbins`, sure, but now you're misrepresenting other issues
jurov: hanbot surprise surprise i happen to agree with the "spewage" ant i asked similar questions
nubbins`: surprise surprise, jurov's questions were ignored too
cazalla: he won't cash your stock warrant as he has you on ignore? it's clear such a request can be relayed to him if required
cazalla: nubbins`, tell me what you really think of me! lol
hanbot: jurov you asked questions. all i see from nubbins is ~24hrs of rabbling, at pretty much anyone who tries to engage him.
nubbins`: but that's just one man's opinion. liked your writing on qntra
nubbins`: hanbot most adult speak sounds like gibberish to children
cazalla: nubbins`, raw cunt is quite endearing to an australian :)
punkman: imho, bitbet can decide to spend its future profits on whatever they want, advertising, servers, or 100% bonuses to random bettors. it doesn't make me want to buy more bitbet shares of course.
jurov: hanbot rabbling is better than silence
nubbins`: hanbot you'll notice that the adults in the chan actually engaged me in conversation: jurov, kako, alf, and others. it's only mp that's wagging his jaw and QQing
nubbins`: fucking embarassing for both of you, really
hanbot: okay, but is it -sanity-?!
nubbins`: pete_dushenski 2 big eyes w/ tears leaking out
jurov: hanbot so tell us your opinion, is it sane what mircea did, without even telling kakobrekla, when contract demands unanimous agreement on such thing?
danielpbarron: nubbins`, i'm trying to give you an out to the negative rating i fear i will eventually have to give you, and I don't mean that as a threat, just that at a certain point what you are doing is spamming, and i like to read this log every day and have the power to at least turn the nozzle two clicks towards the off position
mircea_popescu: cazalla everyone has very legit cause for complaint. the problem is that [the subsection of everyone who thinks the us is the world] imagines that the thing to do when you got legit cause of complaint is to try and identify a kulak and get him to admit his mistakes.
nubbins`: danielpbarron if it's any comfort, i usually come here in bursts
mircea_popescu: no idea why he imagines that'll carry, but whatever. it ain't gonna. he doesn't like bitcoin - he can either fix it or stick to cad.
nubbins`: i thought it was mp who doesn't like bitcoin
nubbins`: because it's been forked by chinese miners, his exact words were
mircea_popescu: wanna complain, go negrate the set of power rangers that made this idiocy possible, da fuck already.
hanbot: jurov hehe what're you doing with such loaded questions? mind you, i'm not suggesting you're wrong for disagreeing or asking or anything of the sort. i'm just curious about your judgment of what i see as a guy on full tilt.
jurov: i like guys on full tilt!
nubbins`: danielpbarron also, as a lord, your clicks don't put me towards the off position at all
gribble: eskimobob was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 2 years, 35 weeks, 2 days, 17 hours, 17 minutes, and 27 seconds ago: <EskimoBob> no idea how executions are shown on btct
nubbins`: jurov notice how hanbot didn't answer your question
nubbins`: because it's obviously not sane but she can't just SAY SO
nubbins`: imagine finding yourself in such a spot
mircea_popescu: jurov contract demands unanimous agreement on dispositions of bitbet. if it's sold, say. it doesn't demand, nor has in practice been ever the case that its sought in all matters.
nubbins`: jurov ask him about the putting a private expense on the books! see if he dodges it! ;p
mircea_popescu: i had no idea he even wants or wanted the liability - but my guess is no, he didn't.
jurov: 3.2h solemnly concerns *expenses*
mircea_popescu: he also has had at all points ~0 say in how bets are resolved, for instance.
nubbins`: maybe explicitly ask about the inputs of B: whose money? BitBet's? MP's?
mircea_popescu: "t, that all expenses charged against BitBet will exclusively reflect expenditure in good faith resulting from the operation of its business"
nubbins`: it seems you need to ask explicit, short, direct questions to allow mp's mind to absorb them
nubbins`: lol he selectively quoted so bad that he got half a word at the start.
nubbins`: quote the whole 3.2 (h) maybe?
nubbins`: where it says you can't just donate 17 btc to the public and expect bitbet to pick up the tab?
jurov: Well. 1.who and when decided to send zerofee tx 2. how is that evver acting in good faith?
nubbins`: ^ stop asking questions, in other words
nubbins`: how dare you call a fraudster a fraudster
nubbins`: it was his right to introduce a private expense to the business
nubbins`: his right as, uh.. whatever he is
nubbins`: asasshole in a suit who can't count
mircea_popescu: you think who and when decided what in a private corp is open to your inquiry because you have the ability to roll your eyes ?
BingoBoingo: <pete_dushenski> kyle's dad and a hot tub or something << Kyle's dad and Randy's dad. 2nd part of 3 that includes Jew Scouts
jurov: Others who are directly involved in the agreement may credit it.
jurov: Or not, of course.
nubbins`: well, i guess this is what MPEx has been reduced to
nubbins`: sign the statements, don't sign em, whatever
nubbins`: your money, my money, who cares
mircea_popescu: jurov> hanbot rabbling is better than silence <<< not really. see the jirinovski problem. an idiot spewing makes the discussion that much harder for saner people with meaningful things to say.
nubbins`: nobody seems to have anything meaningful to say but me
jurov: mircea_popescu: well, if the discussion got so hard now, where are all the negrates?
jurov: if #b-a thinks nubbins` should not have a voice, let's negrate him
mircea_popescu: looky, a republic is not a democracy no matter on what face you turn the democracy pebble.
nubbins`: mp did negrate me, if you'll recall
nubbins`: for all the good it did, being a lord and all.
nubbins`: turns out he can only do so much
nubbins`: doubt he ever thought his clubhouse'd end up like this
nubbins`: if i had a satoshi for every time mp said "looky" when he'd lost an argument, i'd be able to donate a tx fee to bitbet
☟︎ mircea_popescu: but that aside, i did mean about the ugly broad and the general waster attitude. who knows, maybe discovering how little credit he carries with the people he likes and who he flattered himself into seeing as equals provides the much needed impetuus to make something of himself.
mircea_popescu: this whole "nubbins, the guy who made some funny observations" thing is certainly punching below his weight.
nubbins`: ad hominem attacks: often used by people who have valid arguments and can defend them on merit alone
nubbins`: FTR, calling my wife an ugly broad hurts just about as much as calling my left elbow a bicycle
nubbins`: meanwhile, MP's girl with calves thicker than pete's thighs
hanbot: jurov i'll be doing that; ignoring him clears the shit from my client but not the nice logs, and after two attempts to get the guy to speak rather'n spew (just mine, mind you), we find the guy figures he's my "elder" because i asked some questions about gentoo, of all things.
nubbins`: pete_dushenski photographic proof!!
hanbot: anyway i'm not sure if i oughta take jurov's rating as a wholesale endorsement. advise as ya like.
pete_dushenski: nubbins`: let's just say i coulda done long track speed skating ;)
nubbins`: hanbot i'll take that as an apology, you're probably not so bad underneath that rough exterior
nubbins`: sucks about the scammer she's shacked up with huh
assbot: You rated user nubbins` on 30-Jun-2014, with a rating of 2, and supplied these additional notes: He's good for a trade in the 1 bitcoin range..
danielpbarron: !v assbot:danielpbarron.rate.nubbins`.-1:5a354a1ffe0871d83743d45093803fc184c2e412a326a17fe4b049761b7be9ad
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for nubbins` from 2 to -1 with note: for the purpose of turning the spam nozzle two clicks towards the off position, and in the interest of discovering whether a lord can be silenced or not
danielpbarron: anyway, easy go easy come; I think you have some valid grievances, just going about it the wrong way
nubbins`: hey, ya don't like the argument, it's your choice to tune it out. doesn't make it invalid
danielpbarron: i don't like you abusing the bots to get around an ignore
nubbins`: out of curiosity, what's the "right way" to go about airing my grievances?
nubbins`: danielpbarron in fairness nanotube probably doesn't like it either
danielpbarron: write a blog article, deedbot your formal accusation, say whatever ~once~ in the log (not 20 times)
trinque: probably not firing off a "fuck you" to everyone you can think of in one conversation, l0l
nubbins`: i did actually deed my formal accusation.
danielpbarron: i can actually did yours for you if you don't feel like figuring it out (it's very simple)
nubbins`: you owe me a satoshi if it feeds the same address as mine
trinque: I would bet his key's already in there
nubbins`: what's the url for the deed log again?
nubbins`: i think i last used it three iterations ago
trinque: nubbins`: been about a year and a month, and I don't have any plans to shut it down
trinque: danielpbarron: I will remove the dupe
nubbins`: danielpbarron guess i coulda done it myself huh
nubbins`: what's the refresh on the frontend?
danielpbarron: yes that is what i told you around the time you just linked from the log
trinque: nubbins`: it'll fart at the hour, upload at the 15
nubbins`: anyway, my deedify script generated a pubkey of 1EyQFmKg6PtARLgN2bKtNuDY28um1nbfFr
nubbins`: that was compatible with one of the early iterations
danielpbarron: i think it depends if any other deeds get bundled with it
trinque: this one sha256's the bundle (all messages of that hour separated by single \n), uses that as privkey
nubbins`: anyway, i deeded the thing myself earlier
nubbins`: and posted the PGP-signed text in chan
nubbins`: if that's not good enough for mp, well, bully.
nubbins`: he can wait for the new deed and ignore that one too
nubbins`: maybe toss a few more gem insults my way about my radiant wife or the fact that i'm financially unencumbered and spend my days in leisure
pete_dushenski off to train the next generation of would-be long track speedskaters
nubbins` off to smoke weed and count money
hanbot: !v assbot:hanbot.rate.nubbins`.-1:001b32f62b0e9367cf7b1300337c3a35571273ba07885b35c1bd4fc70e900e0b
BingoBoingo: alf has boat, hanbot has dike, /me wonders what next metaphor for the waters BTC precariously insulates from will be
assbot: Logged on 08-03-2016 00:30:14; shinohai: I must say hanbot - awesum outfit.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15146 @ 0.00053398 = 8.0877 BTC [-]
shinohai: 'twas a special "HEavy Rescue Unit"
shinohai: I almost felt sorry for the cops tasked with detaining her.
shinohai: I was actually surprised the roof of the truck didn't collapse under the weight.
shinohai: Well at least you won't have to worry about her running around on you!
mircea_popescu: <assbot> with note: Thinks screaming at the dike plugs the hole <<< wait, did i just get called a fat homosexual woman ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> i can almost imagine i live in 1980. << the things one yearns for
mircea_popescu thought the 80s fucking sucked. then again, back then hadn't seen the 90s. 00s. 10s. etc.
mircea_popescu: shinohai no, that is PRECISELY what you'll have to worry about : her running around ON you.
mircea_popescu: absence of cool is no cooling of absence tho. 80s still fucking sucked.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45410 @ 0.00053198 = 24.1572 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: what was it, cher on every channel and the velvet fog on every radio ?
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6: mega-l0gz << oh yeah, been reading all day.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: a kaiju is one of those japanese monster from the films with the people in the suits
mircea_popescu: sometimes if you crack open an acaju nut, a tiny girl comes out, and you feed her various comestibles and eventually grows up into a slavegirl.
mircea_popescu: and this my dear alf is how slaves are born on the planet gor.
mircea_popescu: ;;google velvet fog best of in autoplay format that can't be turned off. ever.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, cher was a teenage pop singer chick that successfully pivoted into a sort of softcore burlesque career pre dita von teese. also married to sony bono.
mircea_popescu: and the velvet fog aka mel torme was this very soppy lounge act / singer mostly on the old vegas circuit.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 147450 @ 0.00053198 = 78.4405 BTC [-]
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 413.9, vol: 5713.29998851 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 414.216, vol: 7342.69249 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 413.65, vol: 14857.74689053 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 422.0, vol: 3.54660738 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 419.047083, vol: 46801.24770000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 410.288, vol: 1164.83181327 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 417.484368, vol: 34.89035527 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1947 @ 0.00053397 = 1.0396 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: One nugget you may have missed in the log shitting is that weather permitting this week I will attempt to do the tree to stake conversion for the art
BingoBoingo: Well, there's a ~15-20 foot tree that grew up as a weed and was neglected. Before taking it all the way down will convert it to pointed stake as I believe alf suggested as an idea in much earlier discussion
mircea_popescu: but bonus points if you do conversion with really large pencil sharpener
BingoBoingo: Will only stay in that condition long enough to take a picture.
BingoBoingo: Was going to do it with arm powered crosscut saw, but probably picking up a reciprocating saw tomorrow.
BingoBoingo hasn't sharpened pencils with sharpener in a long time.
hanbot: BingoBoingo stick a ragdoll-Muhammad on it!
BingoBoingo: someone around here prolly makes ragdoll muhammads
assbot: Logged on 08-03-2016 03:23:51; mircea_popescu: inb4 city fine for zoning violation.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Well just down the hill from here there is an arena where motor vehicles and farm equipment engage in gladatorial combat
BingoBoingo: Anyways here the only zoning ordinances seriously enforced without neighbor complaints are those on commercial signage, because marketing sucks
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36723 @ 0.00053374 = 19.6005 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3277 @ 0.00053173 = 1.7425 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24850 @ 0.00053089 = 13.1926 BTC [-] {4}
TomServo: Pretty disappointing show 'round here today.
TomServo: ben_vulpes: I'm not even sure where to start.
TomServo: Lotza motza balls hanging out there.
ben_vulpes: [02:12:30] [mircea_popescu] so then, upon advice, i sent it separately. and it went through within half hour. AFTER WHICH somehow the txn was magically found, and… this time it wasn't dropped from mempool ? what changed since last week, mempool is even bigger now. << most underexamined line in this whole saga to date.
assbot: Logged on 02-03-2016 18:06:28; mircea_popescu: you know how it sometimes happens that a platoon gets sent on a random patrol, ends up surprising a moving contingent of enemy, a flurry of radioing and reinforcing and whatnot happens and suddenly the front is in a new place ?
ben_vulpes: what out-of-wot advice is this? and why send the wire twice instead of calling your drinking buddies who /use the same bank/ to ask if /their/ wires are in the habit of simply not showing up and what they've done in the past in the circumstances
ben_vulpes: near as i can tell, mircea_popescu went to pop a mining cartel and only caught a sybil.
ben_vulpes: 'tis quite obvious why this had to be done with poor kakobrekla's property and not his own.
ben_vulpes: bitbet's addresses are not so much public as waved eagerly to the world, and mpex' barely advertised, and i'd split my sides laughing at the notion there was only the one public mpex address
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50950 @ 0.00053224 = 27.1176 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Logged on 07-03-2016 15:11:17; nubbins`: did you guys also like how the 17 btc of mp's own money that he lost is going to be taken from shareholder dividends?
ben_vulpes: "what makes bitbet not fairlay" if i understand the kakobreka-ism
ben_vulpes: perhaps the cartel got away. perhaps someone else cares to bet against mircea_popescu's bitcoin prognostications.
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell nubbins` you're starting to sound a bit like tiberius!
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27075 @ 0.00053449 = 14.4713 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes> what out-of-wot advice is this? and why send the wire twice instead of calling your drinking buddies who /use the same bank/ to ask if /their/ wires are in the habit of simply not showing up and what they've done in the past in the circumstances <<< you don't mean my drinking buddies who a) would take ANY explanation just as long as it doesn't mean gotta get off ass and b) would not be willing, broadly spea
☟︎ mircea_popescu: king, to spend just about enough to buy half a rifle to defend $item ?
mircea_popescu: at the rate this is going, bitbet actually needs to buy a significant pool, which would go for oh... 10-20k ? i guess ?
mircea_popescu: if the concern trolls in chan are in fact shareholders and to any degree representative for shareholder sentiment (which i deeply doubt, but w/e)... oy vey.
mircea_popescu: one day s.mg is going to do somethingwild like i dunno, acquire a paper clip. watch out then.
ben_vulpes: shareholder sentiment seems most opinionated about s.mpoe
ben_vulpes: how did blowing the coins serve to defend bitbet?
ben_vulpes: (couldn't possibly own stock, coins, can barely work a paste buffer much less gpg-tron, owns no real computers etc etc)
ben_vulpes: perhaps rifle cost is actually proportionate to value of $item! heck, a month like 7/15 would cover the loa^Hss.
ben_vulpes: or perhaps the bitbet rifle is proportionate to the value of $item were item btc.
ben_vulpes: and to beleabour the point, ka^H^Hbitbet the scouting party sacrificed to establish the new front.
ben_vulpes: but clearly these are all points that only dirigible captains may discuss over hawala shortwave.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12400 @ 0.00053449 = 6.6277 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36350 @ 0.00053188 = 19.3338 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38700 @ 0.00053141 = 20.5656 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67150 @ 0.00053082 = 35.6446 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61000 @ 0.00053011 = 32.3367 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47374 @ 0.00052996 = 25.1063 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43576 @ 0.00052983 = 23.0879 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: ftr, "the color of money" is so fucking bad, tom cruise prolly wrote the screenplay.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100602 @ 0.0005324 = 53.5605 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15706 @ 0.00052983 = 8.3215 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42594 @ 0.00052916 = 22.539 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59650 @ 0.00052847 = 31.5232 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30000 @ 0.00053021 = 15.9063 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14150 @ 0.00053021 = 7.5025 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43600 @ 0.00052986 = 23.1019 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 534 @ 0.00263851 = 1.409 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4950 @ 0.00052838 = 2.6155 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77008 @ 0.00052815 = 40.6718 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4892 @ 0.00052766 = 2.5813 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32900 @ 0.00052865 = 17.3926 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40150 @ 0.00052765 = 21.1851 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24520 @ 0.00052762 = 12.9372 BTC [-] {2}
punkman: "S. Korean Go player lowers expectations before facing Google AI"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47388 @ 0.00052756 = 25 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 175312 @ 0.00052676 = 92.3473 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21104 @ 0.00052653 = 11.1119 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9937 @ 0.00052653 = 5.2321 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79250 @ 0.00052626 = 41.7061 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58100 @ 0.00052762 = 30.6547 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 08-03-2016 05:15:34; ben_vulpes: ;;later tell nubbins` you're starting to sound a bit like tiberius!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75300 @ 0.00052686 = 39.6726 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46392 @ 0.00052918 = 24.5497 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: in other random lulz, i wake up to three notifications from various parties spread about the world that transfers sent yesterday have not made it. upon examination, it's three times the case that the fiat world has failed to move money in 30 to 40 hours.
shinohai: mircea_popescu can be an Indonesian plantation Lord
thestringpuller: power outage knocked node offline. happy birthday to me :(
shinohai: I hope you didn't experience the same catastrophe I did thestringpuller
mircea_popescu: "son, don't you want to marry this woman ?" "notrly." "well, you should!" "really ?" "yeah. except she's ugly." "well then ?" "but the other women are even uglier." "dad, you're really doing a bum job here."
jurov: when i tested my mempool hack, I just dropped any priority requirements to have mempool filled quickly. I was surprised there were quite a few spammy tx that neither blockexplorer even knew of.
mircea_popescu: what do you mean neither ? there's ~500 various web explorers.
mircea_popescu: lemme rephrase. "there are more web-based blockexplorer than two. why do you say neither."
jurov: i just checked in blockchain, blockr, and some 2-3 others
mircea_popescu: by and large web based ones have to prune very narrowly because well... memory.
mircea_popescu: i vaguely recall some discussion about running a b-a one, maybe last year.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34700 @ 0.00052597 = 18.2512 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45135 @ 0.00052597 = 23.7397 BTC [-]
PeterL: B-A needs own: block explorer, keyserver, mining pool, server host, OS, chip fab, etc
☟︎ mircea_popescu: seems altogether likely the whole keyserver model is getting eaten into g.
PeterL: also: gossipd implementation, pgp implementation, bitcoin implementation, kramer-shoop implementation, lisp implementation, c compiler, etc
mircea_popescu: c compiler i suppose will have ~0 chances of happening, the horsies are pulling towards lisp.
mircea_popescu: and truly there's no good reason to even justify chip fab if you're not going to do something that radical.
mircea_popescu: and since i'd rather include the chip fab, ima support the horsies being radical.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: but yes, the republic is currently short about twenty to fifty billion in filthy fiats and a few thousand to thirty million engineer hours, depending who's counting the hours. not depending on who's hiring the engineers tho, you ~can't hire for this.
mircea_popescu: which, in the grand scheme of things, is perfectly reasonable. argentina spends about that every coupla years and has ~icecream and steak to show for it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83350 @ 0.00052597 = 43.8396 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56600 @ 0.00052597 = 29.7699 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51800 @ 0.00052597 = 27.2452 BTC [-]
assbot: Logged on 08-03-2016 14:03:21; mircea_popescu: pgp prolly also merging into g.
assbot: Logged on 08-03-2016 13:59:36; PeterL: B-A needs own: block explorer, keyserver, mining pool, server host, OS, chip fab, etc
assbot: Logged on 08-03-2016 14:04:37; mircea_popescu: and since i'd rather include the chip fab, ima support the horsies being radical.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform my idea being that whatever you call it, both g and this p will be running a lot of common code in the cyrpto
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform mircea_popescu found a chip fab between his sofa cushions yet ? << i don't have enough money to outright do this. if i had, i'd be outright doing this.
mircea_popescu: but as it is, i'm at best useful as a seed. tho from years of reading the logs it's apparent to me seed-cultural is actually a lot more sorely needed than seed-capital, but that's aside.
mircea_popescu: and fwiw, i doubt anyone has the money, or had, in the past century. we're talking 50bn turkey dollars here. gates can, at most, make a foundation to greenhouse little hussein bahamas out in africa.
mircea_popescu: with any luck, trump wins the election, we get 99 year lease on ft meade and martial law ten miles around the perimeter.
mircea_popescu: what ? makes a lot more sense than half his platform, not to mention all the others.
jurov: nubbins for president!
mircea_popescu: hitler, also "grown" for "purpose". ask that pappen baffoon
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30800 @ 0.0005259 = 16.1977 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: this was true before the age of machine-enabled decay. recall the "90 yos get together to establish what 80 yos should retire" thing ?
mircea_popescu: well, it's been time for years now, but the chinese ain't going away.
PeterL: asciilifeform are there currently any self-run block explorer programs?
PeterL: would it be hard to make?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83000 @ 0.00052531 = 43.6007 BTC [-] {7}
nubbins`: !v assbot:nubbins`.rate.hanbot.-1:99ef4b3d8e17f481dc6e4cb4a2592501214f67972bd8fa6ff300daf8dba9f9fc
assbot: Successfully added a rating of -1 for hanbot with note: nobody. doesn't belong here.
nubbins`: nothing until she negrated me out of spite
nubbins`: then i realized that she doesn't do anything, and thought it odd she's on the lordship list
☟︎ nubbins`: funny how this is an ideas place and so many are willing to look past the ideas and focus on the delivery
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10300 @ 0.00052507 = 5.4082 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: Logged on 08-03-2016 16:56:31; nubbins`: then i realized that she doesn't do anything, and thought it odd she's on the lordship list
PeterL: she runs one of the mpif parts
nubbins`: so she used to do forum pr, but now doesn't
PeterL: uhh, did asciilifeform forget about s.nsa?
nubbins`: fair enough. there are some here who do less.
nubbins`: in fact, F.MPIF has not performed any economic activity since October 2014
PeterL: they are certainly sitting on lots of cash
nubbins`: not belabouring the point, just pointing out that sauce from hanbot holds zero value, and if all she does is run the mouth and not contribute, she's just getting in the way.
nubbins`: basically just a vexual without the youtube links
PeterL: I think you missvalue yourself on this scale
PeterL: could you define it better then?
PeterL: you have a weird way of measuring things
trinque: "oh, I'm only busy reinventing every piece of software and hardware this nascent cryptoculture needs to survive"
PeterL: and you don't see how what you do affects everybody else here?
trinque: I respectfully tip my hat to the burden of having seen far further than one can walk (at least yet)
nubbins`: asciilifeform fwiw i value ability and actions, and little else
nubbins`: in fact, vexatiousness seems to be the only quality she's willing to share with the world
nubbins`: not worthy of much respect imo. opinions vary
nubbins`: asciilifeform tell me something in the present tense and i'll maybe be interested
nubbins`: so that's both of us who see no merit to having her on the lordship, then
nubbins`: she's about as currently relevant as TAT
nubbins`: who, if you'll double-check the list...
nubbins`: an obsession this is not. you asked, i answered
PeterL: should the lordship be so stringently policed?
nubbins`: PeterL stringent policing isn't a thing here anymore
nubbins`: asciilifeform you read the logs as well as i. all are aware that the accusation remains unanswered
PeterL: did mircea_popescu ever say how his bitcoin handles conflicting transactions?
PeterL: I guess it got missed in all the shouting
nubbins`: asciilifeform strange since all but hanbot and mp agree that nothing adds up
PeterL: today is presidential primary here in mich, I havn't decided how to vote, half tempted to write in Rand Paul as a protest against all the idiots still running
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59834 @ 0.00052618 = 31.4835 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: asciilifeform what mircea_popescu considers it doesn't necessarily reflect what it actually is
danielpbarron: if mich is like conn, he can't vote vermin supreme if he was otherwise going to vote rand
nubbins`: asciilifeform consider the case that i may consider my cat a steed. if i mount it, what happens?
PeterL: no, in Michigan they give us a ballot with both parties and we get to pick wich one we vote on
danielpbarron: aha, here in Connecticut if you're registered republican you can't vote in democratic primary and vice versa
danielpbarron: i ran into this problem in 2012 when i wanted to vote for Ron Paul
PeterL: in michigan we don't even register as a party
nubbins`: asciilifeform just wondering: do you still think it's a drill?
nubbins`: here's the straight dope. we all knew from the start that mp doesn't care when he's wrong, he just bulldozes. countless examples exist, i don't care to find them for you. kako agrees that the expense is fraudulent, jurov agrees, many others agree; the only ones who don't agree are you, who seem quite willing to let kako take the hit in order to maintain peace, and hanbot, who obviously doesn't count as an opinion
nubbins`: mp's initial silence on the Nk, Nm node stuff until his other arguments were busted implies strongly that it's total bullshit,
nubbins`: his ad hominem attacks (called my wife an ugly broad!) reflected quite poorly on him as a person and as a leader of anything meaningful
PeterL: so, as I have been watching my trb node sync the past three months (am I the only person who thinks this takes way too long?) it seems like it spends alot of time trying to connect to nodes and timing out?
danielpbarron: it's not clear that Mircea is wrong. It's not clear kako agrees he's wrong. As for the others going along with your rabble rousing, that only makes me suspicious of them.
nubbins`: his inability to listen when he's offered advice is off-putting, and his inability to admit error when it's glaringly obvious is vulgar
nubbins`: he's a small, sad man, nothing more than a mark karpeles with better book-learning. lucked his way into a windfall by recognizing bitcoin as an opportunity early on; just hasn't fallen on the sword yet.
trinque: nubbins`: ^ deed address generator
nubbins`: <+danielpbarron>it's not clear that Mircea is wrong. It's not clear kako agrees he's wrong. << that's beause kako had the private convo with me, not you
danielpbarron: and what is this, the non violent language center? who cares if someone used an "ad hominem" already. In my experience, uses of this term are stupid.
danielpbarron: what's next I'm gonna cite private conversations with God?
trinque: 1KDzk3vd7TeXtgA3PRY6xyz2qBodPVkPTx
jurov: danielpbarron: you already did, numerous times
nubbins`: <+asciilifeform>nubbins`: it is difficult to have a useful discussion in the midst of 'your mother eats electric eeels. -- no YOUR mother. .. etc' << agreed, which is why i found hanbot's vulgarity very disheartening; she only jumped into the conversation to insult and vexate. mp's bringing my wife into it was a ludicrous response to me accusing him of fraud. my wife's not in the picture.
trinque: as for my perspective, the tools either work or they don't. the WoT, deedbot, forum, so on, sorts itself or doesn't.
nubbins`: <+jurov>danielpbarron: you already did, numerous times << HEH
nubbins`: asciilifeform kako's mouth is shut for the time being
PeterL: is #b-a run, or does it just kinda go by itself?
nubbins`: asciilifeform agreed, he has held all the cards since day 1.
jurov: asciilifeform: there's the simple question, if sending zerofee tx is acting "in good faith", that #b-a forum could answer
nubbins`: the listing agreement clearly states that at any time MP wishes, he can liquidate S.BBET via MPEx
nubbins`: asciilifeform i'm not sad today!
danielpbarron: so then there is no problem by your own admission nubbins`
nubbins`: danielpbarron the logic doesn't follow, please explain showing your workings?
PeterL: so the only recourse shareholders have is to sell if they disagree with his decisions, maybe they could have brought suit for negligence before the rota when that was a thing?
danielpbarron: nubbins`> the listing agreement clearly states that at any time MP wishes, he can liquidate S.BBET via MPEx << QED. STFU
nubbins`: so it's okay to commit fraud, as long as the business you're defrauding is on your exchange?
danielpbarron: there was a little bit of selling, i was on the recieving end of it
PeterL: there was some selling the past couple days
nubbins`: danielpbarron seems to think that one cannot point out fraud if the fraudster is party to the fraud
nubbins`: sure you don't wanna explain again?
jurov: asciilifeform: the price fell by 40% last month
PeterL: some of the smaller bids were removed from the orderbook, but the big ones are still there
nubbins`: asciilifeform fair enough and duly retracted
nubbins`: i still believe it was so, in the absence of conflicting evidence
danielpbarron: there hasn't been nearly enough volume on S.BBET to claim any sort of price falling, except for about a year ago when 10 or so bitcoin worth brought it from the 40s to the teens
nubbins`: shame, but apparently i cannot change your mind with facts
trinque: in the absence of assets it seems the only way to keep bbet running
trinque: this even assuming that it was entirely a mistake and so on
nubbins`: danielpbarron that was probably all of the non-mp investors leaving.
trinque: faced with "shut bitbet down" or "gift bitbet the funds to keep running" or "loan them", what's the right thing to do?
nubbins`: look at the monthly statements
nubbins`: you'd make a better profit bumming change outside the metro
danielpbarron: there is no right thing. It's Mircea's thing like it or not
trinque: companies make errors that cost money, either due to their own mistakes or externalities; that's life
nubbins`: trinque that's not the question
PeterL: bbet makes like 1-10 btc per month, it might still be overpriced
nubbins`: asciilifeform got a link? i don't think he's said anything to me lately
jurov: good arguments went unheard
nubbins`: asciilifeform do you disagree that mp's corrosive attitude is a Bad Thing and subtracts from otherwise good ___?
nubbins`: Professional does not imply any restriction of form.ii You are free to be as offensive, annoying, disparaging, crass, crude or indecorous you feel the need or inclination to be. This includes any and all comments that in other, non-professional venues may be regarded as racist, sexist, chauvinist, fascist or whatever else. Pros don't give a shit, it's the clueless twits and assorted pretenders that do.
nubbins`: for emphasis: Pros don't give a shit, it's the clueless twits and assorted pretenders that do.
nubbins`: "too much rabble, not listening"
danielpbarron: "do you disagree that X's corrosive attitude is a Bad Thing and subtracts from Y" is like a USG memo card for filipino spammers
trinque: there's a difference between offending someone with the truth as a matter of tactics, and doing it to the exclusion of sense
nubbins`: danielpbarron direct mirror response to asciilifeform's statement, keep up or stfu
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58200 @ 0.00052619 = 30.6243 BTC [+]
nubbins`: trinque i'd like to think i've provided facts in an offensive manner
PeterL: you could short the stock?
nubbins`: asciilifeform IDGAF about bbet shareholders.
nubbins`: what i do give a shit about is people owning up to their mistakes
nubbins`: mp's behaviour is forum-level.
jurov: asciilifeform: so if i have an opinion about a fraud that does not directyl concern mne, i should stay silent? cuz this is not a democracy?
nubbins`: jurov correct. fraud accusations are NOT welcome here.
nubbins`: if you see an error in a financial statement, do not speak up.
jurov: hanbot was not directly involved in many frauds, but raising hell from her is wseen as good and proper
trinque: define fraud in the context of an unregistered corporation, and what the recourse shall be under no laws which define fraud?
nubbins`: jurov a blessing from the king will do that.
nubbins`: trinque sell, negrate, smear reputation if desired
nubbins` invites all to count the number of pages of woodcollector threads on the forum
nubbins`: don't feel like it. what's with all the imperatives? nobody to boss around in the trailer park?
jurov: trinque so, i'll throw your funds at coinbr by sending around zerofee tx, malformed mpex requests, etc. you'll only negrate me and do nothing else?
jurov: being loud at the forum
trinque: I haven't negrated anyone for being loud!
nubbins`: ^ as admin of CoinBr, the current situation directly affects jurov. maybe that's why jurov and kako are the only ones not 100% complicit in this scheme
nubbins`: he doesn't wanna list a scam fund any more than kako wants to own one
danielpbarron: jurov, i don't see the relation. shareholders of bbet never had an expection to control what happens with bbet funds
jurov: you have control over your coinbr funds? how?
PeterL: danielpbarron they have an expectation that their funds will be used with fiduciary integrity
nubbins`: danielpbarron you're steadfastly dodging the point that MP's fraudulent math is the issue. IDGAF if it's bbet or him and vexual playing dice
danielpbarron: well isn't that the expectation? the whole point of the broker is to hold the funds, and place the orders on my behalf..
ben_vulpes: jurov: how frequently do mpex withdrawals go out with 0-fee txns?
nubbins`: danielpbarron that disagreement is essentially the only one on the table
nubbins`: whether mp committed fraud (intentional or unintentional)
nubbins`: everything else is a discussion surrounding that, or idiots telling adults not to have the discussion
danielpbarron: i said i was ok with what he ended up doing, ~before~ he did it
nubbins`: ok, great. your opinion is noted.
PeterL: danielpbarron if mircea_popescu had sent the funds to his wallet and spent them on hookers and blow, would that count as fraud or would you let him asses that as "the cost of doing business"?
jurov: ben_vulpes: mpex withdrawals don't come into picture, my withdrawals would, if i sent them zerofee
danielpbarron: when that bbet february statement came out, i read it and breathed a sigh of relief, not knowing how controversial it apparently was
ben_vulpes: nubbins`: and what precisely the claim's root? that mircea_popescu paid twice? that the funds were his and the loan a breach of contract?
danielpbarron: PeterL, i've never run a business, i don't know if those things are needed or what
nubbins`: ben_vulpes that transaction B was popescu's personal funds, which he sent of his own free will, AKA a generous donation to bettors.
jurov: and the picture is, that some people think that bitbet's funds are at full disposal of mircea_popescu and he can send zerofee tx and all is okay... while coinbr, somehow can not, because "broker"?
ben_vulpes: ah well that's trivially answerable is it not?
☟︎ nubbins`: ben_vulpes if you pay the pizza guy with your own money, EVEN IF YOU'RE AT WORK, you don't get to automatically bill work for the pizza.
nubbins`: ben_vulpes not trivially, you'd actually have to click a mouse a bunch of times or w/e
ben_vulpes: nubbins`: well i do but that's a special case.
nubbins`: ben "vous" instead of you; it's a failing of english
PeterL: for the record, I view it as a stupid mistake on mp's part, not fraud, so I am fine with having sold my shares I will just let things be
trinque: but that's entirely relevant; management/owners *do* get to make those kinds of decisions
trinque: insofar as an agreement between the owners defines such things
nubbins`: PeterL the thing about stupid mistakes is that if you realize they've happened and you DON'T CORRECT THEM, they turn into fraud.
danielpbarron: i don't agree with the stupid mistake hypothesis either
PeterL: think of it this way: guy makes a bad investment and loses money for his firm, does he have to personally repay it or does the company take the loss?
trinque: "I unilaterally decided to loan the company X amount emergency funds to keep the lights on." << this is not unheard of, if the officer who made the decision had the power to do so
jurov: PeterL: that's question of good faith
jurov: is sending zerofee tx acting in good faith?
ben_vouspes: PeterL: ah, that's simple! traders get fired as soon as they mean revert.
danielpbarron: trinque, and since the alternative was apparently liquidating bbet shares at 0.00001 btc per share, it's absurd that anyone arguing in favor of this outcome has the shareholders interests at heart
PeterL: he did have a loan from MPIF in the past (to cover a previous mistake), so bitbet having a loan has precedence
ben_vouspes: weeeel, previous mistake was overpaying investors not double-paying bettors, was it not?
nubbins`: paying the light bill is when the company purchases a service (light) for money
nubbins`: giving bettors a free handout is when you just give money away
PeterL: it was an overpayment, yes, just like this is an overpayment
PeterL: should he ask the bettors to refund the money?
danielpbarron: i'm curious what would be the argument today if there had never been a transaction B, and transactions A1-An were still nowhere to be found..
nubbins`: if i send the light company $100 cash in the mail because i think my employer is behind on their bills, but it turns out they weren't and everything was just fine, i wouldn't expect my employer to give my $100 back.
nubbins`: danielpbarron why are you curious about something that didn't happen?
nubbins`: why that specific non-occurrence, anyway?
nubbins`: i'm curious what would be the argument if mp had a vagina
PeterL: danielpbarron we would be asking him to talk to a miner and have the txn included in a block
nubbins`: or if hanbot contributed anything useful to the realm
nubbins`: <+PeterL>should he ask the bettors to refund the money? <<< probably not.
jurov: danielpbarron: miner would ask much less than 17btc, dontcha think?
nubbins`: he could, if he wished, but it would be a lol.
nubbins`: danielpbarron you're inventing hypothetical situations and saying "apparently this'd be fraud"
PeterL: if the cost is worth the reputation of bitbet paying out thier winnings, then he should pay it
danielpbarron: i thought this was a principled stand. Now it's just that 17 was too much to pay?
nubbins`: PeterL bitbet has quite a poor reputation, if you haven't noticed
nubbins`: danielpbarron again, not interested in your hypotheticals
PeterL: I would say getting the bets paid is not worth 17 btc
nubbins`: charging tx B to bitbet's liabilities was sinful.
nubbins`: sending B was noble until he put it on bitbet's books.
danielpbarron: incidently it's none of our places to say what it was worth
mircea_popescu shudders to think what happens if a woman tells nubbins off or something
PeterL: <nubbins`> if i send the light company $100 cash in the mail because i think my employer is behind on their bills, but it turns out they weren't and everything was just fine, i wouldn't expect my employer to give my $100 back. << you would expect the power company to refund you
mircea_popescu: really... could we conduct the nutso convention on tardstalk, reddit or whatever usual venue ?
nubbins`: <+asciilifeform>nubbins` also seems to be arguing that he has some sort of vote in how bbet is run ? <<<...what? link plz.
jurov: mircea_popescu: only if hanbot argues against fraudsters as usual
nubbins`: PeterL i would, yes. mp would not expect the lucky bettors to refund him.
nubbins`: mircea_popescu seems to feel that fraud accusations have no place in #b-a
PeterL: as a lucky bettor, I would be willing to refund the extra winnings, minus a "processing fee"
nubbins`: PeterL that's your perogative. i would keep them.
jurov: lel can i imagine how would hanbot go if nefario, inaba or anyone billed such "expenses" to their shareholders
nubbins`: shinohai what's that, a joke? spamming the chan with a video about spam?
danielpbarron: PeterL, this is like the "I would gladly pay higher taxes" argument. So go, pay. Make a gracious donation.
mircea_popescu: jurov plox to quote rather than imagine. this imagination hasn't served you well in the past, won't start to at any point.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72176 @ 0.00052466 = 37.8679 BTC [-] {6}
mircea_popescu: but by and large, the problem seems to be that either throgh simple immersion, or sheer intellectual laziness, or a mix or whatever, lots and lots of people have SERIOIS
nubbins`: ooo, mp implies that he doesn't respect jurov's intelligence
mircea_popescu: which is fine - but i also don't and won't entertain any of it.
nubbins`: mircea_popescu also won't entertain serious allegations of fraud, to nobody's surprise
nubbins`: asciilifeform we get it, he has a free pass from you
mircea_popescu: yes, lordlist was seeded, like everything else (bitcoin included) with very low effort , and very low bars, which is how people like nubbins made it in. this is both fine and the right thing.
PeterL: <asciilifeform> nubbins` also seems to be arguing that he has some sort of vote in how bbet is run ? << the beauty of publicly published financials is that we can call out things we thing are misrepresented
mircea_popescu: as time goes on, the bar raises, and many/most/whatever can't cope.
nubbins`: asciilifeform he doesn't. yet still you provide.
nubbins`: mircea_popescu's statements about the bar raising seem to directly back up my assertion that hanbot needs to get the heave-ho.
mircea_popescu: the beauty of the internet generally is that otherwise unemployable bits of social refuse can offer their unsolicited takes on things.
mircea_popescu: if the people who matter think anything of it, it may see the life of day. if not... a well.
nubbins`: asciilifeform always a soft disagree, never digging a heel in.
nubbins`: mircea_popescu is actually describing hanbot scathingly well here
nubbins`: or maybe she has a job playing diablo somewhere?
nubbins`: wait, no, she "runs" F.MPIF which has been inactive for 18 months
nubbins`: i have no idea why some of you cannot see this place as nothing more than a "cool kids club"
PeterL: mircea_popescu but clearly there is the expectation that people inside your WoT will say something if they think your report is wrong
assbot: The greatly anticipated BitBet (S.BBET) February 2016 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... (
http://bit.ly/1Ryzbug )
nubbins`: looky: if anyone feels up to the task, they can take the lordship list and put each member's past accomplishments and current works under their name. maybe see once and for all who cuts the mustard and who cuts the cheese.
mircea_popescu: the matter to be resolved exactly one of two ways : fixing the report or fixing the wot.
nubbins`: remember when mp was trying to get him in here?
mircea_popescu: we had an idiocy of ~this caliber back about three-four years ago, which newcomers particularly bored and people without anything to do are invited to read.
nubbins`: taleb hanging out on irc with a bunch of drunks and permanent disability folks
mircea_popescu: at that point, i was trying to get a court system off the ground, similarly with random people as judges.
mircea_popescu: traditionally, in the common law at least, the jury is the trier of fact ; with the judge establishing the legal meaning of those facts.
nubbins`: the rota was a brutal flop too
nubbins`: remember the massive money-losing loophole?
nubbins`: mp's ad-hoc approach to life fails more often than it succeeds
mircea_popescu: this system worked more or less for a while, which is to say up to maybe the 1920s. back then people had some sort of relation to reality.
mircea_popescu: it broke down, because by now social consensus is the principal guide for people. and so... the trier of fact established some sort of social consensus and was very surprised when my reaction was to simply disolve it.
mircea_popescu: because apparently i don't know how the world works, and haven't properly groked the memo about how "reality is enacted by convention" or somesuch.
nubbins`: logic and maths are now a matter of social consensus?
PeterL: mircea_popescu if you were to start rota now, what would you do differently?
mircea_popescu: but now i have the ~option~ to do this. back then, i didn't.
nubbins`: the funny thing about all of this is that if i'd approached the sitation with humbleness and humility, the report would already be changed
nubbins`: but because i went on the offensive, mircea_popescu simply cannot back down.
nubbins`: incidentally this was the idea from the start
☟︎ nubbins`: begged me not to humiliate mp, so that bbet could continue
☟︎ nubbins`: but, fuck mp, so the humiliation proceeded
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't see how it's not fully torn, but hey, maybe just me.
nubbins`: note that S.BBET feb 2016 financials remain unsigned by kako.
nubbins`: sure. in the meantime, i'll point out that he's had ample opportunity to sign the financials
nubbins`: you can also see with naked eye where kako asserts that mircea_popescu broke 3.2 (d) of listing agreement?
assbot: Logged on 07-03-2016 16:31:53; kakobrekla:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424891 < this is not so. it was not bitbet experience (for example i was not even aware of any of it) and publishing your interpretation on qntra does not assert absolute truth, it just tells everyone who reads it what you think.
nubbins`: "i was not even aware of any of it" vs 3.2 (d)'s text: "All decisions with regards to any aspect of BitBet ... will require unanimous agreement of all the representatives of BitBet."
nubbins`: asciilifeform your assumption is incorrect, i am painting no such picture
assbot: Logged on 08-03-2016 18:14:50; nubbins`: begged me not to humiliate mp, so that bbet could continue
nubbins`: i am guessing that kako is furiously fighting this fire behind the scenes
nubbins`: asciilifeform there was no other way for me to say it.
nubbins`: the guy said that if i made mp angry, mp would dig in his heels and not change mind no matter what.
nubbins`: and kako got quite upset and said thanks a lot for ruining any chance of getting mp to reverse his decision
nubbins`: which is, well... it is what it is.
nubbins`: you can make of it what you will
nubbins`: asciilifeform nor do i, understand this!
nubbins`: i'm fighting for the side of logic and reason
PeterL: it has more revenue than S.NSA
nubbins`: PeterL anything with revenue has more revenue than s.nsa
hanbot: at the rate this is going, i'd almost rather be sent back to the forum, honestly.
nubbins`: talking about bitcoin doesn't make you a part of bitcoin, etc
nubbins`: asciilifeform i don't own any MPEx stocks, nor am i shorting any MPEx stocks
gribble: phf was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 5 days, 11 hours, 16 minutes, and 10 seconds ago: <phf> "experimental" forms to compensate for lack of rigour.
nubbins` is one of the few to be paid in money for services provided rather than in shares
nubbins`: understand that being "paid" by mp in shares is just a fish hook
nubbins`: asciilifeform no, that's not what i said.
nubbins`: i said shares as remuneration is a fish hook
nubbins`: consider: mircea_popescu wanted to pay for eulora heraldics in stock warrant only
nubbins`: so got $12k bezzlars worth of btc for the actual work and a fat stock warrant for free
nubbins`: if i'd not recevied any cash, but stock warrant only -- i'd be as broke as you, no?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what's severances like these days, for non-monkey non-management sorta jobs ? is it true, ibm offer ~what everyone really gets, coupla k's an a lolipop ?
mircea_popescu: iirc cali didn't uphold noncompetes for professional folk.
nubbins`: <+asciilifeform>nubbins`: do you think it would have made a difference to me, if i had been paid $12k ? <<< i'm not saying you should have taken the same amount of $$ for running s.nsa as i should have for a dozen hours' work.
nubbins`: you're putting all sorts of words in my mouth today
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68700 @ 0.00052636 = 36.1609 BTC [+] {4}
nubbins`: i'm saying that by paying his workers only in shares, mp gets people to work for free.
PeterL: asciilifeform would it have made a difference if you were paid $120k?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14988 @ 0.00052434 = 7.8588 BTC [-] {2}
nubbins`: under the illusion that it's for some greater good.
nubbins`: consider that MP has enough money to pay alf double current salary for next decade, cardano could be out in the world, but chooses not to
nubbins`: because he can just give alf a pile of useless shares that he apparently can't even afford to cash out
nubbins`: and there's one more talking head floating around here on mp's side
nubbins`: you're not doing anything useful, are you?
nubbins`: "being a lord is not an empty honor, but the honor of recognition, by your peers, for a useful purpose. If you aren't doing anything you broadly speaking can't be one, and if you are one it is upon you to show up in court and help settle matters (and in the process help the other lords understand you and predict your future moves)"
nubbins`: also, your fief (F.MPIF) went into hibernation only 6 months after you made it to the lordship list. not a great showing by any measure.
PeterL: mpif is run by mircea_popescu, hanbot only does the throwing coins at bitbet part
nubbins`: go look at F.MPIF statement, show me coins thrown.
PeterL: just a sec, I'll find it eventually
assbot: Logged on 08-03-2016 18:50:50; mats: the drama continues
nubbins`: PeterL october 2014 is the most recent month there was any economic activity in/out
PeterL: I don't see one for february
PeterL: all-time loss at 3.40250561
nubbins`: PeterL: not only that, but the information contained in the post you linked just doesn't appear in the F.MPIF jan financials
nubbins`: PeterL: so if hanbot was betting for F.MPIF PC, why's it not in F.MPIF financials?
PeterL: usually it is there as a small change in the total assets
jurov: she publishes that on thewhet.net
nubbins`: it's just buried in the "assets" section instead of "in/out"
nubbins`: i guess the bet money didn't go out.
nubbins`: PeterL ok so she runs a F.MPIF PC that.... loses money on bitbet.
PeterL: I guess no bets made or resolved in feb
nubbins`: sounds like something you'd give your gf to keep her busy.
PeterL: right, now you get it, serious stuff
nubbins`: yeah, nothing in feb. guess it was getting in the way of diablo
PeterL: should take about 20 seconds a month
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32508 @ 0.00052434 = 17.0452 BTC [-]
PeterL: perhaps the betting strategy should be revised?
nubbins`: "all-time loss at 3.40250561."
nubbins`: perhaps the manager should be revised
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30142 @ 0.00052421 = 15.8007 BTC [-] {2}
PeterL: but there should still be a statement for february, even if it just a signed statement "no bets made or resolved in February"
mircea_popescu: fluffypony is this some sort of dig at monero or something ?
fluffypony: no, it's a review of the Bitcoin Sidechains whitepaper
fluffypony: best read consecutively or in conjunction
mircea_popescu: bah, talk of a good idea badly executed. why is this schmuck so humourless ?
mircea_popescu: "As for requirement [4], my sofa may have bugs, such as mites, spiders, or maybe even fleas. However, I have found no evidence on the web that such invertebrates have the power to cause theft of anything, much less theft of digital assets on other sidechains."
nubbins`: maybe hanbot lost 17 btc and she & mp are trying to come up with some linear algebra to explain it
assbot: Logged on 02-03-2016 04:52:38; hanbot: hey mircea_popescu, is it okay if i defer this month's pc4 report and combine in april?
mircea_popescu: PeterL here's the thing : in my scrollback you appear as engaged in a lengthy monologue which twice now highlighted me. are you going to take a break on your own or do i have to ignore you for a while ?
nubbins`: next step: mircea_popescu ignores people who talk to nubs
PeterL: mircea_popescu I am talking with nubbins`, I guess you have him on ignore still?
nubbins`: PeterL there were a handful of double-month reports late last year too
nubbins`: i guess hanbot plays so much diablo and loses so much bet money that doing the books once a month is an unbearable burden
PeterL: was it yesterday you said you were adding him to ignore? I was not sure if you still ignored him
nubbins`: PeterL offending mp is a one way street
PeterL: I was going to ask earlier, but it seemed like a silly question
nubbins`: PeterL he'd find it way harder to dodge the fraud allegations otherwise
PeterL: and it is what, 10 lines if you don't count nubbins` ? that does not seem very lengthy
☟︎ nubbins`: well, y'know, bruised egos are tender.
nubbins`: ben_vouspes i'm no blockchain analysis expert but that doesn't look like bitbet's money to me
nubbins`: if you trace the chain all the way back, it actually appears to be MPEx's money :0
nubbins`: the 1Gpng output gets successively split up into a bunch of different pieces, and a chunk of it eventually ends up paying out the bettors
nubbins`: so, put another way: mircea_popescu borrowed money from MPEx, sent it to bettors, and charged the expense to BitBet
assbot: Logged on 08-03-2016 17:51:29; ben_vulpes: ah well that's trivially answerable is it not?
gribble: williamdunne was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 25 weeks, 0 days, 0 hours, 41 minutes, and 27 seconds ago: <williamdunne> But yah
nubbins`: asciilifeform that's funds moving out of MPEx address and ending up as inputs to tx "B"
nubbins`: mumble mumble conflict of interest
nubbins`: mumble mumble MPEx funds being sent to bettors and BitBet getting stuck with the bill
nubbins`: asciilifeform feel free to verify on your own node; blockchain.info may be incorrect
nubbins`: interestingly, 11.5 BTC gets broken off and sent to gabriel_laddel at one point.
danielpbarron: even if some came or went to lizzard hitler's address it wouldn't prove a damn because this kind of analysis can only be held against ~fiat~ institutions
danielpbarron: ie : in a qntra about silk road cops running with drug funds or the like
nubbins`: asciilifeform but the difference is that your coin wasn't sent to bettors.
nubbins`: anyway, only looked into it at ben_vouspes urging
nubbins`: interested parties are free to make their own decisions on what it means
assbot: Logged on 19-02-2016 02:24:48; assbot: You rated user gabrielradio on 14-Oct-2015, with a rating of 2, and supplied these additional notes: Apprentice Trilema translator..
williamdunne: Are people working on translating old Trilema articles from Romanian?
williamdunne: I'm down for working on that, I started learning last week funnily enough..
williamdunne: I got kicked, spent a while picking myself up. Wasn't reading the logs very often, only Trilema and Qntra
williamdunne: Difficulty in my personal life, nothing I couldn't recover from (obviously(
ben_vouspes: mpex paying out bitbet bettors, megafuckinglol if true.
nubbins`: it basically violates every document MP has ever signed
nubbins`: danielpbarron for many, working hours are impersonal life
williamdunne: danielpbarron: the part of life I wouldn't talk in public
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68400 @ 0.00052402 = 35.843 BTC [-] {6}
nubbins`: ben_vouspes i can't see any other explanation. mircea_popescu claimed ownership of B's inputs, and they came from MPEx. Best-case scenario, mircea_popescu legitimately received the funds from MPEx and paid the bettors out of pocket. Worse-case scenario, he paid the bettors directly with MPEx funds.
nubbins`: this is the final nail in the fraud coffin
nubbins`: i'm just gonna fuck off for a while and see if anyone bothers to care about all this evidence
assbot: You rated user diana_coman on 21-Jul-2015, with a rating of 2, and supplied these additional notes: fellow Eulorian; gatherer of groceries, and builder of bots.
danielpbarron: !v assbot:danielpbarron.rate.diana_coman.3:e874ab9653fc33c3f7ec679664111545a565b8d762a8c8d273d8ff060da2c379
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for diana_coman from 2 to 3 with note: Fellow Euloran; trainer of noobs, builder of bots, gatherer of groceries.
williamdunne: Seems like I chose an exciting time to reappear
williamdunne: I must have missed this part on Qntra.. ok I'm going in
PeterL: see the "miner problem" qntra article
ben_vouspes: williamdunne: and woefully incomplete. you'll need to read logs back to friday or thursday of last week to get a notion of what's going on.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26400 @ 0.00052721 = 13.9183 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: Logged on 06-03-2016 12:58:05; nubbins`: asciilifeform i thought it was fairly obvious that MP had been divesting since he lost his shirt w/ MPOE?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13400 @ 0.00052649 = 7.055 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44990 @ 0.00052767 = 23.7399 BTC [+] {3}
solrodar: all indications were that the payment was in a personal capacity, and it never appeared on the statements of mpex or nsa
solrodar: looks like he's in the habit of using an mpex wallet for personal expenses
solrodar: that isn't necessarily fraudulent, as long as everything's properly accounted for
nubbins`: solrodar petalol, do you have the tx handy?
danielpbarron: even if all the addresses were emptied to 1bitcoineater it wouldn't matter.
nubbins`: my money, company's money, w/e
assbot: Logged on 26-07-2015 11:04:53; mircea_popescu: b6f7f5ce3ab9bddf0bf5c32ec4b01d7ac5a590396ff87ae0a846975cd5303458 solrodar. thanks for your help!
solrodar: of course he would argue that what constitutes "company's money" does not necessarily map directly to addresses on the blockchain
nubbins`: if a single bitcoin address is being used for both "company money" and personal money, that's setting off alarm bells
nubbins`: do you know what they call it when the CEO uses the company's bank account as his own personal bank account also?
danielpbarron: this is like when some celeb gets outed as a womanizer and all the girlies out out of nowhere to retroactively claim he touched her
nubbins`: danielpbarron hush, dear heart
nubbins`: solrodar's claims are backed up by mp's own words in the log, and the blockchain
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24157 @ 0.00052649 = 12.7184 BTC [-]
nubbins`: you're growing more deaf to reason
solrodar: I'm not accusing him of anything here, just giving a bit of context to the earlier discussion
assbot: Logged on 26-07-2015 11:04:53; mircea_popescu: b6f7f5ce3ab9bddf0bf5c32ec4b01d7ac5a590396ff87ae0a846975cd5303458 solrodar. thanks for your help!
danielpbarron: i hesitate to even attempt reasoning with you, because I believe you have "broken the joystick" so to speak
nubbins`: danielpbarron at this point i feel ok telling you to fuck off.
fluffypony: my wife breaks my joystick like all the time
nubbins`: i just gave you (a) mp saying "thanks, here's your money, here's the tx", (b) the tx comes from mpex (c) the tx is not on mpex's books
nubbins`: if you hesitate to attempt reasoning with these facts, fuck you
nubbins`: i have no interest in reasoning with those who abandon reason
davout: nubbins`: i fail to see how (b) implies (c), I can perfectly have an account on my own exchange, can't I?
davout: my money is on a paymium-controlled addy, your examination of my withdrawal on the blockchain would conclude to fraud?
nubbins`: mp could have sent the funds to solrodar from mp's mpex account
williamdunne: nubbins`: tbf while using the company wallet might be a bad habit, I don't think its an issue in itself, although reading through the logs it seems everything has gone to shit
davout: nubbins`: i think you made some valid points, but this is not one of them
trinque: if one had invested significantly in the infrastructure for an exchange, it stands to reason that he'd not use this to hold his own funds, and instead would keep it on a usb stick plugged into his fucking pogo
assbot: You rated user nubbins` on 30-Jun-2014, with a rating of -1, and supplied these additional notes: for the purpose of turning the spam nozzle two clicks towards the off position, and in the interest of discovering whether a lord can be silenced or not.
danielpbarron: !v assbot:danielpbarron.rate.nubbins`.-3:d427bdf36173205cad1ccd6b5631df015cf4de72d9b7d150d0a03d7ed949655a
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for nubbins` from -1 to -3 with note: Suffers from the misguided notion that bitcoin companies are subject to the same rules as fiat
nubbins`: davout my logic stretched too far!
nubbins`: danielpbarron is this a race to -10 now?
davout: nubbins`: and I'm out of popcorn!
nubbins`: davout guess we better both rewind
assbot: You have not rated danielpbarron.
nubbins`: !v assbot:nubbins`.rate.danielpbarron.-10:9cad03701ab6bdc18d16905aafdb5fb5438ae5f7bd07a5cfdf0a756bdf9cdff3
assbot: Successfully added a rating of -10 for danielpbarron with note: Devoted to a man rather than to a cause.
nubbins`: i'd say you wear your hemorrhoids like badges of war
assbot: Logged on 07-03-2016 13:32:31; danielpbarron: i'm not interested in bitcoin if he's not interested in it
danielpbarron: is this a surprising position to come from the guy who believes in God (a man)
assbot: You rated user nubbins` on 24-Apr-2015, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: pogoplug tester for therealbitcoin.
solrodar: !rate nubbins` 0 +1 is making some valid points / -1 is being a complete dick about it
assbot: Rating should be any non zero value between 10 and -10.
nubbins`: solrodar hate the game, not the player
nubbins`: stress left my vocabulary in early 2013
nubbins`: but duly noted -- will prob just watch these embers and see if they take hold
nubbins`: will set the stage for the future of TMSR~ either way
nubbins`: also, if you don't send me address for these shirts, i'm sending them to real nsa w/ your name on box 8)
nubbins`: asciilifeform i will check my records -- may or may not have kept
nubbins`: yes, will pull those first. i think it's only a couple
williamdunne: danielpbarron: And needs them sometime between now and.. um
danielpbarron: i never understood the whole "omg when are my winnings comming, i neeeed them!"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26739 @ 0.00052818 = 14.123 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: danielpbarron as of right now it's "are my winnings coming?"
BingoBoingo: <danielpbarron> i never understood the whole "omg when are my winnings comming, i neeeed them!" << General Bitcoin related anxiety from having them away from One's keys
nubbins`: BingoBoingo +1, they're not your winnings until they're in your hands
danielpbarron: no i've specifically seen the argument made from a winner that he needed the funds to seed his next bet
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell fluffypony Did you really sign a document about being more polite?
nubbins`: why don't they meet to institute an idiot harvest instead?
hanbot: so mircea_popescu do you suppose these people were hacked or something, ie some kinda inept Chinese-PR? even without nubbins` meltdown, you have PeterL, the ex-mildmannered professional chemist with a family, going
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-03-2016#1427105 like a five year old suddenly, what the fuck is this?!
☝︎ assbot: Logged on 08-03-2016 19:16:32; PeterL: and it is what, 10 lines if you don't count nubbins` ? that does not seem very lengthy
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28941 @ 0.0005277 = 15.2722 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12500 @ 0.00052649 = 6.5811 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: hanbot: Crisis does funny things to people's brains
ben_vouspes: nubbins`: and until bitcoin accounting standards include "these are the coins i am reporting on my balance sheet" this best case/worst case ambiguity will remain.
☟︎ assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 454 @ 0.0216 = 9.8064 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: hanbot nubbins` is just doing his trademark low hanging fruit thing, "what's the lowest effort thing i could possibly do to maintain the pretense i'm doing something". that's his coping mechanism with life, it "worked pretty well" or whatever, it's what he knows, it's what he does. there's a whole stack of these idiots running around like pointless chickens, i dunno that much need be explained.
mircea_popescu: he sat in the chan counting his bellybutton lint for years, making inept arguments about pointless shit - he lost all of them, but hey, as long as mp doesn't come straight out with "you're stupid, go back to school" one needn't notice this actually happened, can just as well pretend that blabla.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile other people did things, and there he sat on ass, thinking to himself "oh heh, am i fucking special - all these idiots are sweating bullets and i think i'm exactly the same as them but much smarter because I'm not even doing anything!". aka sprezzatura, ie what happens when you overfeed and underbeat the children.
mircea_popescu: then that bizarre theory got put to the test and it broke like a bridge made out of rickety reeds and now the unspeakable happened, and there is the mirror and oh god the horror.
mircea_popescu: peterl is kinda the same, trying to hang on to the train, which is moving kinda fast and so on.
mircea_popescu: the whole incident is certainly a fine example of why b-a and the world generally can't work as a "mp supported" thing. gotta be very expensive to be a lord, or else self-flattery is much to powerful a force.
mircea_popescu: williamdunne> Are people working on translating old Trilema articles from Romanian? << there was a guy, gabrielradio, did some so-so work. it is HARD.
mircea_popescu: ben_vouspes> mpex paying out bitbet bettors, megafuckinglol if true. << one day you'll comprehend what this "there is no bitcoin taint" thing means.
mircea_popescu: and why it is both wrong and stupid to entertain fiatista's pretense of re-interpreting bitcoin in fiatista terms.
mircea_popescu: the point is to crush, not to extend, the relevancy of old world idiocy into the new.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron> what is personal life? is there impersonal life? << funny enough, this actually came up in the harem recently. i liked the conclusion. public are all matters which can be expressed such that all the individuals who know of them can accept the expression. private is everything else.
mircea_popescu: which is why addition is a public matter and faith, not.
mircea_popescu: hehehe. so go for it. but note that the guy was a native speaker. trilema, and especially ro trilema, is incredibly tense. in fact i do not believe harder source text exists in the whole 2k year history of the place.
mircea_popescu: williamdunne> nubbins`: tbf while using the company wallet << there is no such thing as "the company wallet".
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> wtf would anyone bet when the dial says '0.99 << it's about even money neh ?
☟︎ williamdunne: mircea_popescu: Do you have anything in particular that you would care to see translated, ideally something that isn't literal poetry? Yeah I've only just started picking RO up, so it would probably be a slow process..
mircea_popescu: assbot> Report: Elon Musk, Tim Cook, and Larry Page meet to halt Trump’s ascendancy << somebody's worried about being cutoff from wasting public funds to maintain their "businesses" or wut.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: williamdunne not that there's any hurry. lemme see, something that's more accessible, perhaps interesting, not very ro context-y...
diana_coman: williamdunne, for practice, join eulora and I'll offer quests and training in Ro only, no problem
williamdunne: I have an account somewhere, it's time I've been lacking. But if I can pick it up, that would be very kind, thank you
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: Thanks, I'll start working through it
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 143 @ 0.0209 = 2.9887 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: ben_vouspes> as predicted. << predicted my foot. you've prolly not even noticed that trilema's previous article was "color of money", or that the current one continues in the "trolling the idiots" vein.
mircea_popescu: also d9b19f22606c66ed66e0271eb52064e61fdbd1c6022aa25b175d691dac12148c4a5e4a7ff00a0971fc35e24ed7909ad195ea38f8d44f1e52fc847deb3c1c8e12
assbot: Logged on 08-03-2016 23:10:34; ben_vouspes: nubbins`: and until bitcoin accounting standards include "these are the coins i am reporting on my balance sheet" this best case/worst case ambiguity will remain.
mircea_popescu: ben_vouspes now try sha512("(and if you say anything other than "no it was in my mempool" to this list of easy to explain coincidences, you lose)")
ben_vouspes: i have no idea what point you're trying to make.
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 412.15, vol: 5584.85171220 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 412.0, vol: 5684.28593 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 411.64, vol: 10209.75146076 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 400.0, vol: 13.0417394 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 419.446436, vol: 39366.03800000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 410.57, vol: 1313.03639734 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 417.052814, vol: 66.46005481 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9135 @ 0.00052649 = 4.8095 BTC [-]