assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109763 @ 0.00056264 = 61.7571 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53750 @ 0.00056419 = 30.3252 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5950 @ 0.0005642 = 3.357 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 01-02-2016 23:38:18; BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Sandisk, AMD, etc is all Samsung parts
assbot: Logged on 01-02-2016 23:39:03; *: kakobrekla sent numerous 'go fuck yourself' letters to sandisk for their policies with usb drives and will never buy their shit again
BingoBoingo: Now that gernika brought it up, apparently Micron also makes nand and SSD's
assbot: Logged on 01-02-2016 20:06:49; ascii_butugychag: having it with somebody who understands nothing of how his civilization is put together, to whom flashlight, pc, boeing, are equally magical - is a snore.
pete_dushenski: not like aerodynamic performance matters in the slightest when you're joe average swinging his driver at 75 mph, but hey mr. tourstar who swings at 110+ mph notices a difference, however marginal, and that's good enough for joe !
assbot: Logged on 01-02-2016 23:17:36; mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag> why the fuck provision for rewriting bits that will ~never~ be rewritten. <<< ironically, cheaper to save on hdd than on the mask rom. yet.
assbot: Logged on 01-02-2016 23:24:07; pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: mhm. can use mounting bracket too if you don't feel like taping it on. i guess the 2.5" size meets the 90% of buyers using it for laptops and the 10% of buyers using it for desktops aren't excluded either.
assbot: Logged on 01-02-2016 23:32:54; pete_dushenski: curious if asciilifeform is buying sandisk, samsung, intel(!), amd, or other ssd atm.
assbot: Logged on 26-01-2016 19:40:17; ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: i like raid5, among other reasons, because it makes life very painful for boobytrapped hdd supplier
pete_dushenski: "So that is a long way of saying that Callaway has reshaped the Speed Step on the crown of the XR 16 driver, but at least you now know that a whole lot of thought and time has gone into it from the best brains from two of the top aerodynamic engineering companies around. The result is the XR 16 driver that has a 30% lower head drag and a 10% lower face drag than the original XR driver."
http://www.golfalot.com/Portal pete_dushenski: imagesblogs/callaway/xr16/reviewdriverwave.jpg << ok that's actually notbad…
pete_dushenski: the number of sports where one isn't saddled with other idjits (and their trivial hierarchies) are few and far between. thus i grew up doing swimming, golf, badminton, tennis, running, yoga, etc.
pete_dushenski: it's quite popular here with all ages. my theory is that it has a similar swing plane to hockey, which is the ~most~ popular, and works well as a seasonal alternate.
pete_dushenski: though most take it up in their 20s and 30s because they're a) bored and need the frustration, and b) need to play for 'business' reasons on account of many alrger firms having annual tournaments.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86900 @ 0.0005583 = 48.5163 BTC [-] {5}
pete_dushenski: i started around 13yo, peaked in '09 when i won the club championship at one of the two most competitive private clubs in town. only play two, maybe three times a year now as i find it a bit abusive to swing that hard now and can think of a several books i'd rather read with 6 hours of continuous time.
pete_dushenski: coincidentally, my golf equipment is almost exactly the same vintage as my computing equipment and i similarly see no benefit to upgrading either.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Just wait until you need an orthopedic computer
pete_dushenski: though i suppose the golf ball is the equivalent of the hdd/sdd - it breaks, you "lose" it, and does actually need to be replaced eventually.
BingoBoingo: One that's not as orthotic as you'll need after pantagruel spends a decade using you as a thing to climb on
pete_dushenski: holy shit is chopin the worst fucking composer to listen to when trying to read or write. what an obnoxious fucking twat!
pete_dushenski: i'm sure his pieces would make for excellent theatre, but they make the worst study partner.
pete_dushenski: "The story behind the workout is almost as good as the workout itself: Coss Marte developed a unique and effective exercise program without the need for any equipment while doing his time. and now he helps you to do yours."
pete_dushenski: "While serving a sentence in his 9’x6′ prison cell, Coss lost 70+ lbs. in just six months. From that experience, Coss refined a unique fitness program combining fun cardiovascular, aerobic, and running exercises and now he has brought this exercise program back to New York City."
pete_dushenski: in other news, this lead-in made me loller >> "At the University of Kentucky, taco knowledge is power."
pete_dushenski: "This semester, the university is offering an undergraduate course called “Taco Literacy: Public Advocacy and Mexican Food in the US South.” Led by Steven Alvarez, an assistant professor in the university’s Writing, Rhetoric, and Digital Studies department, the class aims to teach students about Mexican foodways in Kentucky and the broader South."
pete_dushenski: inb4 "HOW DID I END UP WITH ALL THE DEBT AND NO TACO STAND JOB PROSPECTS ??!"
assbot: The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... (
http://bit.ly/1Q70TOa )
mod6: *cough*3rd time*cough*
mod6: there is some good Q&A in the comments.
mircea_popescu: yeah it's kinda rare for trilema comments to take off these days.
mircea_popescu: but no, it's really not fair - i spring stuff like this on people that's been many months in the building and then what, they gotta have an instareaction ?
mircea_popescu: think about it lol. it didn't just fall from the sky, it's a construct!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36450 @ 0.00056306 = 20.5235 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... (
http://bit.ly/1UEI3BP )
jurov: ^to work as intended, the nonce must depend on included transactions in mined block, too
jurov: imo designing something that forces miner to have fast random access to all whole blocks is a cryptographical challenge
mod6: asciilifeform: cool with you if i send those re-worked patches to the ML?
mod6: well, they're your things!
mod6: so even though I was able to press out shiva, et. al.; it might be worthwhile to make a list of which patches need to be included to make it work.
mod6: i think there is some confusion there. as you saw in the logs.
assbot: Logged on 01-02-2016 05:13:50; asciilifeform: tinyscheme genesis is NOT PART OF TRB !!1111111111111
mod6: so shiva part 1 & part 2 + shiva fix.
mircea_popescu: and on this specific topic - i'd prefer if all discussion happens there. it'll become impossible to track if we just do the usual layered cake.
adlai: mircea_popescu: apologies for retardation, i may have just posted my comment twice
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> 'From the court filing for his recent arrest it looks like this was a fairly clever trap set for Bridges. <<< heh.
mod6: I, jurov, am hereby submitting the treasurer's reward in full as my
mod6: tax payment to the Foundation.
adlai waits for the day when usg stagehands and muppeteers donate their entire income to the IRS (saves on paperwork!)
jurov: ben_vulpes do you intend to maintain v.py? *all* its unittests break from several causes
jurov: like alf's expired key you bundled in
mircea_popescu: adlai well, buffett donated his secretary's. that count ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5050 @ 0.00055706 = 2.8132 BTC [-] {2}
mod6: i thought ben_vulpes made a lisp deal?
jurov: generally, wot should ignore expiration dates. like, if alf dies, we're going to throw everything out?
☟︎ mod6: it should do what these guys were talking about before, just press up to level where key you trust has signed.
mod6: so if i get hit by a bus, and alf has signed all the patches, then you're ok as long as you trust alfie. or vice versa.
jurov: what about genesis?
mod6: well, you press out genesis if you trust at least one person who has signed it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34600 @ 0.00055706 = 19.2743 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: jurov> generally, wot should ignore expiration dates. like, if alf dies, we're going to throw everything out? << holy shit!
mod6: which currently stands at 4 lords at this point
mod6: genesis.vpatch (asciilifeform, mircea_popescu, mod6, trinque)
jurov: ok i get it, it's using other people sigs
mircea_popescu: mod6 vaguely unrelated points. the owner's death guarantees a key with an expiration date will expire ; it also guarantees the trust for it needn't ever be updated - dead men tell no lies.
mircea_popescu: consequently the expiration date makes no sense whatsoever.
mircea_popescu: take chetty's key. if it expires tomorrow, what does that change exactly ?
mircea_popescu: so basically key expiration as a concept is broken, in that it induces a wrinkle between phenomena and representation.
mod6: in the case of v, if she had created a patch, and she was the only one who signed it and her key expired tomorrow, well, someone better grok it and sign it who's in the current lordship
mod6: i didn't know he was a crypto guy
mircea_popescu: technically, as per catholic doctrine, jesus must have been a crypto guy.
mod6: the history you don't know... or how does it go?
jurov: that's not catholic doctrine
jurov: catholic is that truth is what living Pope signs.
jurov: and there were two popes and whatnot
jurov: i just happened to stumble upon it cuz vulpes' test data has only one - alf's signature per patch
mod6: you know, im pretty sure that my v ignores expired keys.
jurov: guess i should stop wasting time with it and approach v from completely other direction
mod6: try it out, grab v99996, grab alfs expired key and drop it in your .wot
mod6: whenever is cool. :]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 165200 @ 0.00056477 = 93.3 BTC [+] {4}
mod6: ok so pressed out shiva with V -- used what is currently in the mirror (including alfs PVS) + what is stated above: shiva 1 & 2 + shiva fix, compiles and works:
mod6: #>(btc-get-best-height)
mod6: be back in a few to sort out the patches that need re-grind after I submit the integrated programmable-version-strings vpatch and the reground mikehearn one
mod6: actually, i think we're ok here because the only parts that changed in the new patches are main.cpp and serialize.h
mod6: lemme compile & test with the new patches + shiva 1 & 2 + fix
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15010 @ 0.00055706 = 8.3615 BTC [-] {2}
mod6: Bitcoin version 0.9.99.98 << good
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: it is a very interesting proposal.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53222 @ 0.00055706 = 29.6478 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66800 @ 0.00055706 = 37.2116 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: is this the sort of thing that *must* be implemented as a fork of the existing chain?
ben_vulpes not terrifically intimate with fork dynamics in practice, having flatly ignored proposals to do so until now
ben_vulpes now actually very curious as to how this sort of thing would work at the code level in practice. if blockheight < forkheight, use old validation rules, else use new?
adlai: ben_vulpes: did you see my comment? this could be implemented today by miners already and you wouldn't have known of it
danielpbarron recalls Mircea saying something like "if you're gonna fork, might as well start with new genesis block"
ben_vulpes: i do not think i've gotten to your comment yet adlai. on trilema?
assbot: The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... (
http://bit.ly/1PvfxSY )
ben_vulpes: i believe that i understand how it could be implemented softly, adlai, but it doesn't /count/ until it's verified.
adlai: correct, same as how extension block (adam back's original name for what morphed into the "segwit softfork") payments don't /count/ until you withdraw them to cold, hard, bitcoin
ben_vulpes: yeah i never followed that stupidity in depth
ben_vulpes: jurov: i committed violence to asciilifeform's original v in a harebrained attempt to add tests, was roundly caned for the violence, left his implementation to him and hared off to reimplement in cl.
adlai: ben_vulpes: fwiw i still believe it's a bad idea to discourage this kind of "speculative soft fork"... it makes it easier for experimenters to put their money where their mouth is, and puts on a good show for "conservatives" who remain in plain good old Bitcoin
adlai personally will be slightly amused if LN goes live on SegwitCoin, and sees zero volume because nobody who spends btc actually needs micropayments
adlai: (there'd go all the talk about capacity cliffs...)
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes made for some interesting discussion at any rate.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34500 @ 0.00055704 = 19.2179 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: adlai this fear is part of why ln bla bla stays vaporware.
mircea_popescu: but that aside, should they somehow find the money/mit to pull an ethereum : spam is easy and cheap.
adlai: part of the just beauty is that spamming extension blocks is cheaper than spamming Bitcoin
adlai: so along with a fee market, we also get a spam market
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2016 02:03:04; jurov: generally, wot should ignore expiration dates. like, if alf dies, we're going to throw everything out?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66617 @ 0.00055689 = 37.0983 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 143771 @ 0.00055557 = 79.8749 BTC [-] {4}
mircea_popescu: also BingoBoingo maybe redirect the fellow to trilema comments where the matter of "jiggling the merkle tree" is well set to rest.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61696 @ 0.00056231 = 34.6923 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: kinda lulzy how this got all the self-important know-nothings off their ass and flailing wildly.
assbot: nullc comments on Paul Sztorc on Twitter: "It seems that [Mircea Popescu] has internalized Bitcoin's full node externality. Initial reaction: "Wow."" ... (
http://bit.ly/1SA2hxm )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24750 @ 0.00056569 = 14.0008 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: polarbeard + return error(SBLK "chain tip %s not found in the block index", hashBestChain.ToString().c_str()); << any reason this has only one flag ?
☟︎ mircea_popescu: + return error(SBLK "block loading from disk failed"); << this soulds like SERR and so does + printf(SWAR SBLK "found bad block %s at height %d\n",
mircea_popescu: + printf(SWAR SWAL "repairing tx version %d\n", wtx.fTimeReceivedIsTxTime); << any reason this lost the hash ?
mircea_popescu: - printf("\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n"); ahahaha holy shit already.
mircea_popescu: i had forgotten that was in there. suddenly got flashbacks of ancient debug.log layout.
mircea_popescu: + printf(SINF SBLK "loading block index\n"); << this should show the nStart value ; so should all these timed items. like + printf(SINF SADR "loading addresses\n");
adlai: mircea_popescu: biggest derpitude is that we're discussing on irc a reddit conversation about a tweet linking to a blog
mircea_popescu: well what can you do, when the "real cryptographers" are involved, you're stuck.
mircea_popescu: i wonder if this is a step up or a step down from power ranger.
adlai: ;;later tell ben_vulpes see what happens when commenters can't find the comment box!
mircea_popescu: "a man pretending to be a woman pretending to be a man pretending to be..."
mircea_popescu: + return error(SBLK "block %s doesn't match index", GetHash().ToString().c_str()); << it really doesn't work if you don't use the flags!
mircea_popescu: + return error(SBLK "pow %s work below minimum (%u)", hash.ToString().c_str(), nBits); << bunches of these.
mircea_popescu: + strError += strprintf("tx requires a tx fee of at" << this is logging exempt ?
mircea_popescu: so basically polarbeard here's the thing : i considered signing this, and i will consider signing the next version. as it is however i won't do that, because a) not all errors have both flags set ; b) occasional ' in error message ; c) occasional losing a valuable datapoint (such as the hash above) or missing on adding a useful one (nStart).
☟︎ mircea_popescu: as annoying as b c etc might be they're mostly minor and could be fixed by a further patch. a however is a killer, and colors both b and c in similar tones, because it betrays the fundamental problem with this patch : it doesn't flow from a structured approach given in depth consideration, but merely from your desire to help and impressive stamina.
mircea_popescu: these are both very nice things, and the good news is that it's much easier for you to become very useful than it is for alf to grow another arm. so don't take this as a censure per se. does all that make sense ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64400 @ 0.00055607 = 35.8109 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61585 @ 0.00056669 = 34.8996 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 98172 @ 0.00056706 = 55.6694 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: In derplandia: Cruz 28% Trump 24% Rubio 23%
BingoBoingo: Or in the numbers that matter: Convention Delegates > 6 to Cruz 5 each to Trump and Rubio, one to Carson
BingoBoingo: Trump lost to Bible belt guy and tied Establishment guy
BingoBoingo: Trump was always just Manistream media noise and some derps online
BingoBoingo: But Blizzard keeping Trumpets at home likely played a part
mircea_popescu: mommentum player, has little to offer other than "nobody can beat me for i'm the king rarara"
BingoBoingo: He's going to continue kicking and screaming consistently drawing 25%-30% until he quits in May or August
BingoBoingo: Momentum player, media likes he because they are mostly Democrats
BingoBoingo: But if Trump keeps drawing that large a chunk while Cruz and Rubio fight it out a Brokered convention is still possible.
BingoBoingo: He's going to pull the Obama on Clitler again
BingoBoingo: And moar Mormom insurrections in the west are likely
BingoBoingo: ATM Sanders and Clinton are nearly tied in Iowa and could take a while to sort out that contest
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29843 @ 0.0005637 = 16.8225 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: "@HillaryClinton Shouldn't you be in jail for #WhiteWater" << My daily dose of social media trolling
BingoBoingo: Anyways, Trumps future is as a sort of Alternative Pat Buchanan
BingoBoingo: Anyways I have still not seen any reason to hedge by BitBet on Rubio winning the nomination.
adlai: shouldn't somebody who understands parimutuel betting better than the average bitbettor make nearly risk-free profit if the outcomes add up to "over 100%"?
☟︎ adlai doesn't even understand enough probability theory to phrase question properly
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50000 @ 0.00056573 = 28.2865 BTC [+]
adlai: s/average/below-$1/ might be more accurate
adlai: on further thought, the risk of doing this on bitbet is that "late leeches" will squeeze out your profits from the bets that should have covered your losses
adlai: fight leeches with leeching; maybe reserving some capital for post-leech correction mitigates this
☟︎ mats: i'm looking for something either on trilema or the logs, about advertising fraud
☟︎ mats: anybody know what i'm talking about here?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29600 @ 0.00056573 = 16.7456 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36650 @ 0.00056522 = 20.7153 BTC [-] {2}
mod6: asciilifeform: hey, ok posted those two to the mailing list:
mod6: give these a compile & quick test if you don't mind and then upon confirmation, I'll update the mirror.
☟︎☟︎ mats: also looking for the discussion re: credit, not barter, being 'invented' first
punkman: mats, was it szabo's "The Origins of Money" perhaps?
mats: I haven't read this paper yet, so I may be recalling a discussion of it
punkman: "Debt: the first 5000 years" also discusses that point iirc
punkman: "coming in at a market cap $558 billion after jumping about 8% after the company reported its fourth-quarter earnings, and passing Apple, which sits at a market cap of $535 billion."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11700 @ 0.00056596 = 6.6217 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20700 @ 0.00056362 = 11.6669 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3300 @ 0.00056497 = 1.8644 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2016 04:41:22; mircea_popescu: polarbeard + return error(SBLK "chain tip %s not found in the block index", hashBestChain.ToString().c_str()); << any reason this has only one flag ?
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2016 05:08:04; mircea_popescu: so basically polarbeard here's the thing : i considered signing this, and i will consider signing the next version. as it is however i won't do that, because a) not all errors have both flags set ; b) occasional ' in error message ; c) occasional losing a valuable datapoint (such as the hash above) or missing on adding a useful one (nStart).
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14317 @ 0.00056482 = 8.0865 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11630 @ 0.00056978 = 6.6265 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9000 @ 0.00056733 = 5.106 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5630 @ 0.00056982 = 3.2081 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12300 @ 0.00056582 = 6.9596 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: mats: That was a disappointment. I was hoping to see someone store linux kernel as dead tree on shelves
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9400 @ 0.00056036 = 5.2674 BTC [-] {5}
Nicknaem: i actually have nothing to say atm, was just checking out the channel :)
☟︎ Nicknaem: Greatly enjoyed some of the pieces on trilema, just wanted to see whats going on here
BingoBoingo: Just poke someone if you'd like to talk once this voicing expires
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22500 @ 0.00056915 = 12.8059 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16200 @ 0.00056166 = 9.0989 BTC [-] {2}
punkman: polarbeard: not bad, which version did you backport from?
assbot: RPC: add 'getpeerinfo', returning easy-to-retrieve per-CNode data · bitcoin/bitcoin@1006f07 · GitHub ... (
http://bit.ly/1Q715gi )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7650 @ 0.00056166 = 4.2967 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4400 @ 0.00056166 = 2.4713 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18860 @ 0.00055872 = 10.5375 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9549 @ 0.0005563 = 5.3121 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2900 @ 0.00055824 = 1.6189 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6900 @ 0.0005563 = 3.8385 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11826 @ 0.0005563 = 6.5788 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11750 @ 0.0005563 = 6.5365 BTC [-]
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2016 06:22:46; mod6: give these a compile & quick test if you don't mind and then upon confirmation, I'll update the mirror.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35100 @ 0.0005563 = 19.5261 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2016 06:22:46; mod6: give these a compile & quick test if you don't mind and then upon confirmation, I'll update the mirror.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59000 @ 0.0005563 = 32.8217 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Is there any other way to vote that doesn't involve doodling horsecocks on the ballot?
BingoBoingo: In other news, the crap weather that lifted Rubio to a third place victory in Iowa has made it here. At least it's too warm to freeze here... so far...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17700 @ 0.00056158 = 9.94 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5200 @ 0.00056447 = 2.9352 BTC [+]
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 373.72, vol: 6176.05880644 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 377.592, vol: 5769.2799 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 372.17, vol: 15590.4673899 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 379.99, vol: 2.33567734 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 380.0912, vol: 30229.46150000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 375.56008, vol: 389.01040813 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 376.9125, vol: 55.11831967 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
gribble: Current Blocks: 396310 | Current Difficulty: 1.2003334065123697E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 397151 | Next Difficulty In: 841 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 5 days, 0 hours, 51 minutes, and 44 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2016 05:50:41; adlai: shouldn't somebody who understands parimutuel betting better than the average bitbettor make nearly risk-free profit if the outcomes add up to "over 100%"?
mircea_popescu: as the ancient rule says, "people will do the sane thing just as soon as all alternatives have been exhausted".
BingoBoingo: Well, first they gotta make a Jim Crow Grand Lightning Network on top of BitBetBet results.
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2016 05:58:13; adlai: fight leeches with leeching; maybe reserving some capital for post-leech correction mitigates this
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2016 06:09:12; mats: i'm looking for something either on trilema or the logs, about advertising fraud
PeterL: for all the media trumpets who gets the "WIN!!" in each state, many of the primaries are not winner-take-all, so multiple candidates come away with delegates from each state
PeterL: so with iowa delegates getting split between candidates, it really did not change the election at all
BingoBoingo: PeterL yes. Hilary ended up turning a vote tie into a 6 delegate advantage late last night on... COIN FLIPS
PeterL: maybe we should make it easier and skip the voting and go straight to a coin flip to decide the presidency?
mircea_popescu: i would expect there's a lot of power brokering going on there.
mircea_popescu: all those nobodies on capitol hill gotta derive their delusions of relevancy somehow.
BingoBoingo: It's amazing 6 delegates were decided by coin flip and every coin flip was resolved in CLitler's favor
PeterL: but Hillary has been "waiting her turn", so the party bosses are trying to get her in despite her being a horrible monster
PeterL: not that Sanders is much better of a candidate
mircea_popescu: ftr, i may be the only one left, but i don't think she's anything of a monster.
PeterL: depends on who you ask, I guess
PeterL: I certainly don't trust her
mircea_popescu: the woman is intelligent and determined. certainly a lot less stupid than it is average for the us. she's no bush nor any kind of redditobama.
mircea_popescu: PeterL you're not supposed to trust your ruler. you're supposed to feel threatened by them, i guess, or fear them, if you don't have a readier way to express submission in your own mind.
PeterL: I know she's smart, but I don't expect her presidency to help me any
☟︎ mircea_popescu: people not trusting politico actually makes for one of the best recommendations they could have.
BingoBoingo: <PeterL> but Hillary has been "waiting her turn", so the party bosses are trying to get her in despite her being a horrible monster << THis is how the GOP sank in 2008 with the lich, and 2012 with Rommit
PeterL: at least Sanders is honest about what he is going to do
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2450 @ 0.00056447 = 1.383 BTC [+]
PeterL: well, some candidates (Paul) might get in my way/wreck the country less than others
mircea_popescu: the country is terminal tho. it's falling over on its own anyway.
PeterL: but I figure some candidates are going to make it worse than others, and I think Clinton would be one of the worst
mircea_popescu: anyway. in my detached view, this presidency is important for purely exterior reasons. the us, as it is, is irrelevant to everyone, including itself. the future of the us is mostly determined by the management of the image of the us, which is well divorced from the us of today, and a sort of future tendril of the us of 1970.
BingoBoingo: I endorse parting the thing out and starting over.
mircea_popescu: there will come a major pass with china, probably in the next five years.
mircea_popescu: on the basis of how the american handles himself there, the immediate future is decided.
PeterL: Split it up by state? Let each state decide where they want to go?
PeterL: Or dissolve all the states and start over from scratch?
mircea_popescu: this is the one bit us folk are too blinded by their own internal narcissus to grasp. you don't get to retry on your own as a failed state. you get put under the management of your neighbours, because you suck. it happened to the indian tribes in the same geography before, and they were extinctified by it.
mircea_popescu: PeterL neither of those are options. a russian oregon alaska and washington, a chinese california, a mexican arizona nm and texas and a european protectorate all the way to ohio is much more likely
mircea_popescu: than americans themselves having any say whatsoever in who gets to fuck their ass for the next ~century.
PeterL: Can we sell ourselves to Canada?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Under foreign management, under the Bundy's, however
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo sadly, the alf totally dominates that field. the bundy's dun have what it takes. not even remotely.
☟︎ BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Nah, but mebbe the inspire the kid that did. 4 people left in Free Oregon lead by kid named Fry. Fry seems like he's staying a while since FBI killed his friend.
mircea_popescu: four people and their dog aren't part of this discussion.
BingoBoingo: Anyways. The point is the Bundy fumbling has to happen for militia movement to develop which isn't 75% USG informant by weight.
mircea_popescu: or you think bhagwan chowdhry & the merry bunch actually have some sort of loyalty, or even any sort of conception of "US" ?
☟︎ mircea_popescu: the maggot language doesn't have a word for "corpse", and certainly not one for the corpse's ex-marital status.
BingoBoingo: I don't know that the Indian bureaucrats like Preet can think any other way.
BingoBoingo: But the point is the Shaun Bridges have to stop falling for the trap where they reveal their Gobag&fortune to loyalists.
mircea_popescu: yeah, which will happen five minutes after the usg stops hiring idiots, which will happen half hour after anyone who's not an idiot stops exclusively dedicating himself to the republic, which happens after i'm fucking dead, i should hope.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8750 @ 0.00056519 = 4.9454 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: trinque so not with the intent to pressure you, but : is deedbot patch insertion likely to come online soon or should i re-learn how to do it via email ?
☟︎ BingoBoingo: Fuck I wrote December instead of January in the first line
BingoBoingo: But in the positive side, 20 more posts than December while wordcount stayed rather steady.
BingoBoingo: On downside fucking old backup restorating clusterfuck induced error in December
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1900 @ 0.00056227 = 1.0683 BTC [-] {2}
mod6: we're about to get some snow. not as bad as IA tho.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16750 @ 0.00056829 = 9.5189 BTC [+] {3}
gribble: artifexd was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 40 weeks, 5 days, 16 hours, 19 minutes, and 16 seconds ago: <artifexd> I'm comfortable calling it a review. Not just of what it is but what it was and how it got to where it is.
gribble: diametric was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 3 days, 15 hours, 41 minutes, and 4 seconds ago: <diametric> not sure that makes it a trivial non-crime at that point.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19250 @ 0.00055565 = 10.6963 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: ok so does anyone have a ready link or fresh context in head re that discussion recently (~month) of that british game publisher that went under with 20mn investment ?
mircea_popescu: one of the founders was arguing it shouldn't get govt support, just let it die
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22772 @ 0.00056982 = 12.9759 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4885 @ 0.00057044 = 2.7866 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17150 @ 0.00057044 = 9.783 BTC [+]
phf: i'm just doing manual labour until i get an uploader of some sort
phf: fwiw the graph is still not quite right, i.e. shows presses that couldn't happen.
mircea_popescu: excuse the naive approach, but isn't that sort of thing precisely what lisp is supposed to by its nature prevent ?
PeterL: you mean lisp is less magical than they say?
phf: nah, my graph theory is rusty, and figuring out the right algo is a slow mind grinding process
mircea_popescu: if you're going to get an endless slog of obscure bugs that came from nowhere and aren't apparently anything, why not just use something that actually has libraries ?
phf: there's no library substitute for thinking. the "bug" is not obscure, it's just not implemented right :>
BingoBoingo: libraries don't help make the graph theory learning faster
mircea_popescu: the role of libraries is exactly like the role of the fridge in the supermarket : "here's this capsule of other people's thinking so you don't have to"
☟︎ mircea_popescu: which is how the entire world (except brazil) enjoys the benefits of refrigeration, even as there's maybe a guy in a thousand people that could explain how it actually works.
BingoBoingo: Library now means Ycombinator floaty arm things
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2016 13:59:52; mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo sadly, the alf totally dominates that field. the bundy's dun have what it takes. not even remotely.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15750 @ 0.00056892 = 8.9605 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2016 14:03:19; mircea_popescu: or you think bhagwan chowdhry & the merry bunch actually have some sort of loyalty, or even any sort of conception of "US" ?
mircea_popescu: for instance, another hand would feed them if they went nude dancing. they don't.
mircea_popescu: they have a very narrow cage through which they might be fed.
ascii_butugychag: the activities listed above are a) actual work, that involves not sitting in a climate-controlled chair all day b) really needs having been raised 'free range' chicken instead of cage-born
ascii_butugychag: do you recall the photo of a very peculiar boar that kakobrekla once posted ?
mircea_popescu: but nevertheless. it's not merely the hand that feeds.
mircea_popescu: it's the hand that can be arsed to make it through the mental cage.
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2016 15:19:04; mircea_popescu: the role of libraries is exactly like the role of the fridge in the supermarket : "here's this capsule of other people's thinking so you don't have to"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19032 @ 0.00056752 = 10.801 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2016 14:14:45; mircea_popescu: trinque so not with the intent to pressure you, but : is deedbot patch insertion likely to come online soon or should i re-learn how to do it via email ?
ascii_butugychag: picture if somehow the phlogiston theory had, by way of sheer accident, resulted in the building of a sorta-working refrigerator.
PeterL: why is your node sending me bastard txen?
mircea_popescu: trinque i dunno, jurov was saying something about email, but that seems silly. just allow the import of files and piss them out as a json i guess ?
ascii_butugychag: why this situation can persist for more than a few seconds, is a question to be asked of shitoshi
trinque: meanwhile trb node at 393k, today is the day...
mircea_popescu: hey jurov phf ascii_butugychag everyone else with an interest : let's get a format for bot-ml-etc interoperability ?
trinque: jurov proposed that deedbot- start taking detached sigs the other day
trinque: ascii_butugychag: in that form
mircea_popescu: jurov well it's already here, already takes dpastes, not so bad no ?
PeterL: did we decide if wotpaste fixes the mutilation issue?
trinque: could get the thing a shorter domain
phf: issue was with html input boxes adding #\newline#\return
PeterL: and could the raw be default?
phf: i think cascadian solution was to strip #\return on incoming posts?
phf: but curl works reliably on any of the posting services. or anyway anything that can do an
http post without fucking up the payload
jurov: mircea_popescu: i wait for deedbot to accept files and *detached signatures*, no dpaste braindamage
mircea_popescu: jurov respectfully an' all that, but : didn't we test dpaste and it came out that it mangled nothing ?
jurov: i was not aware of these tests. and what if some day it will?
assbot: Logged on 26-12-2015 05:30:02; phf: (drakma:
http-request (concatenate 'string (cdr (assoc :location (nth-value 2 (drakma:
http-request "
http://dpaste.com/api/v2/" :method :post :parameters `(("content" . ,(concatenate 'string "foo" '(#\Newline) "bar"))))))) ".txt") :force-binary t)
ascii_butugychag: you ask for a pgptronic random turd, a la assbot, it gets enciphered to your pubkey (if you are in l1)
ascii_butugychag: this gets fed into a small proggy on your box, which now knows where to connect, and what the symmetric cipher key is
ascii_butugychag: on other side is the same thing, started for just one session, with same key
ascii_butugychag: ben_vulpes wanted some warez, and i realized that we haven't the most elementary provisions for warez
ascii_butugychag: but not quite ready to fire in anger yet, this is a world-exposed sorta thing and needs to be 'measure 777 times, cut once'
ascii_butugychag: but i wanted to put this basic summary here, in case i get flattened by a bus or whatnot tonight.
mircea_popescu: you know, it's just like you that you'd ask about the one hole.
ascii_butugychag: btw how come nobody uses blum-blum-shub, which provably reduces to quadratic residuosity hardness, as a block cipher ?
mircea_popescu: this is actually a good call for wisdoms. what's the #b-a symmetric cypher ?
ascii_butugychag: 'it's slow and there are boojums and didja know it's slow??...'
ascii_butugychag: 'pushes the problem down to your rng' which 'of course' can never work
assbot: Logged on 01-04-2015 21:20:02; *: ascii_field listened (in car) to an infuriatingly zimmermanish interview with jon callas (former pgp, now 'silent circle' garbage)
mircea_popescu: ""Many people who haven't thought it through have sung its praises over the years, mostly because they got seduced by the sound theoretic basis. Blum-Blum-Shub has two of the three flaws that DUAL_EC_DRBG has: it's slow, and you can't prove it secure.
ascii_butugychag: whole turd worth reading, but for pro entomologists strictly !
ascii_butugychag: i now strongly suspect that blumblumshub can be proven to equal rsa in hardness
ascii_butugychag: what we are seeing in callas and the shitoverflow derp is akin to the horizon of black hole
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag incidentally, if you'll excuse the naive approach : couldn't in principle any p-and-q scheme be made to have a mutating p-and-q ?
ascii_butugychag: we cannot see the dense matter at the center, but can see the derpwalls around
mircea_popescu: isn't any "rsa-like" symmetric cypher basically an immature or partial implementation of
ascii_butugychag: (i must mention, for completeness, that derpwall could have an opposite purpose, of preventing inquiriy into the ~weakness~ of b-b-s when used as prng, as it is in many systems incl. iirc, certain versions of winblowz)
ascii_butugychag: it is interesting, to me, how the derpwall of 'don't go there! dragons!' always has quite the same appearance, from a mile away
mircea_popescu: "This is interesting because nowhere do they address the central engineering issue -- that a fixed p,q is not secure yet a variable one requires another RNG to seed the RNG." << except the part where a prng IS NOT A RNG
mircea_popescu: remidn me, do p and q have to be primes or relatively prime in bss ?
ascii_butugychag: if they aren't prime, you're using multiprime rsa and if your smallest prime is small, you get, e.g., pollard-rho'd
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5259 @ 0.0005679 = 2.9866 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: the quadratic residuity issue makes me think fermat primes should be somewhere involved in all this
ascii_butugychag: i always found it interesting that, after all of the $maxint spent on both sides of the ocean on symmetric crypto (see maslennikov's b00k, from the l0gz, say) we have - publicly - no more provably-hard symmetric crypto than a hundred years ago
ascii_butugychag: just that none of the results, positive or negative, leaked out.
ascii_butugychag: this'd be a neato use for mircea_popescu's network of little birds, incidentally
mircea_popescu: i shared it like three times to date when this thread came up!
ascii_butugychag: btw if you read that article, my hypothesis was that the usg ciphers are specially built to fail in a particular way.
mircea_popescu: i recall us discussing old soviet machines re that also
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21013 @ 0.00056744 = 11.9236 BTC [-] {3}
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: maslennikov actually discusses at great length why 'GOST' cipher, which is a cruddy knockoff of DES, was adopted
mircea_popescu: you know why fat women on okcupid aren't getting laid ?
mircea_popescu: they're guarding their precious proprietary meat curtains. for what ? FOR A GUY THAT DESERVES THEM DAMNIT
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3600 @ 0.0005691 = 2.0488 BTC [+] {3}
ascii_butugychag: my suspicion is that neither side has a block or stream cipher of provable hardness
mircea_popescu: neither side of the 3-4 sides involved EVEN COMPREHENDS what that'd be, let alone why they'd want it.
mircea_popescu: and the most exposed of the lot (the islamists) show quite clearly how it works.
mircea_popescu: to imagine the indian-us is any different is laughable.
mircea_popescu: to this fucking day "security" in the us is "he knew your mother's maiden name so clearly he was you" "what if my mother was a whore ?"
mircea_popescu: that "bizarre schutzstaffel-esque aryan thing going" is the VERY DEFINITION of indian
mircea_popescu: what did you think indian meant, "smells of cardamom" ?
mircea_popescu: there's a reason the nazis were regarded as barely better than the russians back in the day.
ascii_butugychag: anyway what i meant was, they have a pedigreed white meat thing going
mircea_popescu: when they start with "don't say nigger to be civilised and don't go topless to go to heaven", they took a step back. which means a step east. they're less greek and more indian.
mircea_popescu: no i know what you meant. it is SPECIFICALLY inferior in this specific manner we call "indian".
ascii_butugychag: i tend to associate this with old brit and ru empires, officers with purchased commissions, imbecilic commanders, 'blue blood.'
ascii_butugychag: cia as per ~its own~ official histories admits being an org made of 'second sons'
ascii_butugychag: (of commercial aristos, who did not have quite enough to bequeath to each son)
mircea_popescu: officers with purchased commissions is not in any sense a bad idea ~per se~. would you be lead by some schmuck fresh out of west point or by some dude who made and spent 10k btc to lead you ?
mircea_popescu: i'll take my chances with the dude who spent actual money to get there.
mircea_popescu: which is the problem here. purchased comissions are not the problem - fake money is.
mircea_popescu: west point hasn't had a worthy officer come out of it since before you were born.
ascii_butugychag: i thought mircea_popescu taught us that they quit making worthy officers some time around 1800
mircea_popescu: but anyway, the whole caste bullshit is specifically indian. it is a cheap and simple solution to "what to do when confronted with multitudes and unwilling to think"
mircea_popescu: which is why it fits so well to the needs and capacities of the us today.
ascii_butugychag: anyway the funniest thing is that nobody cancelled purchased commissions, and other simonies - they are simply brokered through the credential racketeers now
mircea_popescu: anyway : there was a short time in the history of europe (and therefore the world) where the masses figured that they're in power and since they didn't know what else to do, decided to promote entertainers to leadership positions.
mircea_popescu: which is how hitler ended up stuck moving divisions on a map
mircea_popescu: the tragedy of the austrian painter being that the fucking divisions were wholy imaginary throughout his tenure
mircea_popescu: that actual items moved in seeming lockstep with this for a while is not really germane.
mircea_popescu: the folly of purchasing one's commission with song, dance and merriment should be plainly apparent by now.
thestringpuller: but when you do php f_open It's all "file can't be opened for writing permission denied"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5300 @ 0.00056645 = 3.0022 BTC [-] {2}
mod6: shiva did expose a defect in v99996 of V (line 420), in one of the graphing subroutines (add_desc_src_files). the rest is fine. locally added simple conditinal check to see if the node is empty seems to have fixed it.
mod6: here's a screenshot of the graph after the fix was applied (locally):
mod6: i don't have tinyscheme-genesis in my patches dir. just shiva 1_of_2 and shiva 2_of_2 + the shiva fix.
mod6: !up ascii_butugychag
ascii_butugychag: btw, educational exercise for anybody interested in shiva: diff ~the vpatches~ shiva-part-1 and the tinyscheme-genesis aggregate.
ascii_butugychag: i did not sign it, because we have no mechanical provisions for processing such a thing, nor is it a long-term goal
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18300 @ 0.00056643 = 10.3657 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18139 @ 0.0005703 = 10.3447 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2016 13:53:49; PeterL: I know she's smart, but I don't expect her presidency to help me any
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2016 13:16:03; *: asciilifeform votes a straight vermin supreme ticket
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18000 @ 0.00055632 = 10.0138 BTC [-] {2}
mod6: !up ascii_butugychag
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26995 @ 0.00056009 = 15.1196 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5499 @ 0.00057043 = 3.1368 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4039 @ 0.00056066 = 2.2645 BTC [-] {2}
jurov: so, was anything worked out yet between turdatron and deedbot?
jurov: or should i figure how to shoehorn .vpatch+ .vpatch.sig to dpaste?
jurov: or alf definitely proclaimed turdatron obsolete?
jurov: trinque ascii_butugychag mod6 ^
jurov: !up ascii_butugychag
jurov: !up ascii_butugychag
deedbot-: imported: 260FA57BCE677A5C04BF60BA4A75883CC1B1D34C
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2016 15:43:52; trinque: does ben_vulpes' mutilate ?
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2016 15:56:39; ascii_butugychag: draft name, 'g'
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell adlai is this in reference to the tweet referencing a blog post referencing a reddit thinger?
assbot: CipherLoc Corporation Announces Today That Cipher Block Chaining Mode Has Been Broken With Results Presented at DEFCON Conference Other OTC:CLOK ... (
http://bit.ly/20EOdFL )
jurov: hello, long time no see
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9919 @ 0.00055876 = 5.5423 BTC [-]
mod6: !up ascii_butugychag
jurov: princessnell: you have here 15675 s.qntr shares, want to do anything with them?
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16500 @ 0.0005548 = 9.1542 BTC [-] {2}
ascii_butugychag: had little gurl, nell, who illicitly found a robotic tutor who gave her puzzles about 'princess nell' and taught her to survive in the Dark Fyootoor (tm)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4054 @ 0.00055875 = 2.2652 BTC [+] {2}
ascii_butugychag: 'diamond age' is prolly closest thing i know to a fictional portrayal of... tmsr
princessnell: hey mircea_popescu. all goes well in the kingdom?
assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 04:36:34; mircea_popescu: <pete_dushenski> mircea_popescu: it's sorta incredible that the fiatists who need infinite growth all want to cut their own throats with reduced consumption while tmsr~, who doesn't want anything to do with infinite growth, is buying and consuming like it's going out of style << actually, best estimate i can get puts TMSR GDP growth for 2015 somewhere around 450-500%. that's not 4.5-5%. it's not 45-5
mircea_popescu: princessnell and how goes with you ? ready to do some serious newswork jet ?
mircea_popescu: jurov> so, was anything worked out yet between turdatron and deedbot? << not so far.
mircea_popescu: do you mind holding my hand again while i try to send stuff to this ?
hdbuck: mircea, about all that ‘proposal’ of yours, isnt it somehow sealing the 1MB limit?
jurov: mircea_popescu: you're asking me?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16600 @ 0.00056905 = 9.4462 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: ok so i am sending an email to btc-dev@therealbitcoin.org with subject line Certify polarbeard_add_getpeerinfo_rpc with content as a clearsigned short explanation of what it is, and with two attachments
mircea_popescu: polarbeard_add_getpeerinfo_rpc.vpatch and polarbeard_add_getpeerinfo_rpc.vpatch.mircea_popescu.sig in this order
jurov: not needed, if it can find and verify the clearsigned part marked as text/plain or text/gpg, all is swell
jurov: discarded :( looking...
jurov: had wordwrap enabled?
jurov: yes, the clearsigned text
mircea_popescu: basically email-based ml posting reduces to human-impersonated irc bot o.O
jurov: huh, i now see only pgp signature without text
jurov: !up ascii_butugychag
jurov: it does not touch main.cpp
mircea_popescu: mod6 why is your v perl implementation named v0001.pl on ml instead of a saner v99996 ?
mircea_popescu: im contemplating signing this to reflect its successful usage to bring up nodes, but should i really sign a file called "v0001.pl" ?
thestringpuller: ascii_butugychag: you won't be happy until you have plug in head to computer
jurov: i'd prefer to name it v_MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMCMXCVI
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 why is your v perl implementation named v0001.pl on ml instead of a saner v99996 ? << weird? where do you see that?
mod6: afaik i've always named the actual file `v.pl'
jurov: ooooh maybe ml renamed it to avoid conflict
mircea_popescu: where the fuck did i end up with this v-0001.pl then o.O
mod6: yah, that's the right one.
mod6: no idea how you got v-0001.pl tho
mircea_popescu: ok well. they're all 3 identical : the v, the v-0001 of mystery and the v.pl on the actual machine that pressed with it
mod6: you may wanna hold off for a minute
mod6: something is wrong with that patch, and V isn't doing anything about it.
polarbeard: ben_vulpes, mircea_popescu: hey thanks for reviewing and submitting my patch
polarbeard: anything else I can do? should I play with shiva? :)
mod6: whats weird here, is that the hashes in the patch, before and after, match nothing that i've got. so i've gotta figure that out.
polarbeard: so is the plan to port all rpc commands to shiva actually?
mod6: and that might be because i'm running with my two replacement patches for ascii's stuff that haven't been verified yet.
mod6: will find out here in a minute
mod6: looks like it compiled fine -- even though the patch had to apply with Hunk offset garbage
mod6: this one needs to be reground
mod6: if anyone else is in the middle of creating a patch - maybe hold off a day or so before you submit until I can straighten out the tree & test everything.
polarbeard: yes, it needs reground, I didn't know it will be submitted so what I published is on top of my better logging patches
mod6: or at least until i give the "all good" signal in here.
mod6: !up ascii_butugychag
ascii_butugychag: ty mod6. i'd like to note that in a time of 'fog of war', when some patch is up in the air, it is not necessary to hold off on ~all~ work, but only things which concern the affected subsystems.
jurov: and since everyone is regrinding patches right and left, maybe we'd like to revisit the notion of "obsoletes that other one"
ascii_butugychag: an obsolete patch is simply one that doesn't keep getting built on.
jurov: is that always decidable? if i have A, which has a child patch B, and author regrinds A into A' which is to be kept?
ascii_butugychag: it is no more immediately decidable than a young chain fork in bitcoin
jurov: imo both A and A' should be kept at leas B' isn't reground too
jurov: but how do I add both A and A' into the repo without renaming?
mod6: ah, so this is what is very weird:
mod6: still needs to be re-ground, but was just weird that it had no matching antecedents
mircea_popescu: mod6 as he says, turns out he wrote it on top of patches that didn't make in
mod6: and thats even with a full sync of the mirror as it exists up until this very minute.
mod6: mircea_popescu: ahh, ok.
mircea_popescu: well yes because he never actually published them, ie, by sending to ml or w/e the process is.
mod6: no worries, they need to be re-ground, i'll work on that.
polarbeard: yes, sorry for that, got me totally by surprise
mircea_popescu: because if i sign random shit that doesn't actually connect to the tree even if it claims to
mod6: right this is actually a really good test case.
ascii_butugychag: i thought mod6's vtron actually verified each patch operation ?
mod6: and yah, its certainly flawed.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13527 @ 0.00057044 = 7.7163 BTC [+]
mod6: it verifies the post press checksum.
mod6: but that could be somehow broken as well, obviously, this needs some attention.
mircea_popescu: but as polarbeard among others can testify, this makes writing code fucking difficult, thanks god.
mod6: before i re-grind this patch, im gonna look into V a bit while I wait for ascii to give me the green light on the other two reground from lastnight.
polarbeard: it's a matter of maintaining a personal branch and an official one
mircea_popescu: creates thriving communities and supports the implicit "fragmentation=strength" properties of the wot something fierce.
ascii_butugychag: mod6: you can give the green light to yourself, just vdiff the result of applying my two patches vs. the result of applying your unified.
mod6: im just trying to be sure, im already pretty sure... but i wanted you to look/test so i dont end up with more on my plate
mod6: man, v is failing badly.
mod6: the output hashes of net.h/net.cpp/bitcoinrpc.cpp are not matching the vpatch at all, this should have died mid press.
mircea_popescu: mod6 but does it press ? from what i see it correctly says no antecedents found etc
mod6: it does press, yes, but it shouldn't
mod6: and.. even if it does press, it should have immediately haulted when it saw this:
mod6: here's a debug snippit
mod6: i've got some idiotic thing going on in there, looking now.
ascii_butugychag: i wonder who thought 'fuzzy' diff was a good idea for a default to begin with
ascii_butugychag: reminds me of the circular connectors, with 100s of pins, that rockets had - in su they copied american plugs, yes; but they also had sergeants with hammers
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10669 @ 0.00057044 = 6.086 BTC [+]
polarbeard: cable connection succeeded (offset 5 pins broken).
polarbeard: uhg, those would require --backup-if-mismatch --force
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16950 @ 0.00056976 = 9.6574 BTC [-]
polarbeard: finds surrounding lines, omits whitespace, and don't know what more dirty tricks
mircea_popescu: jesus i wonder how much "mission critical code" was really written by patch itself.
ascii_butugychag: gnupatch has 'fuzz' because... you never know whether the comments got regendered ? or what.
ascii_butugychag: at any rate, v really started as a pill against this particular thing
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11150 @ 0.00056976 = 6.3528 BTC [-]
polarbeard: I'm aliasing potch='patch --fuzzy 1000'
ascii_butugychag: v is simply a mathatron that deals in the basic operation h,s1,o,s2 where s1 and s2 are strings, h is an operation (usually a hash) for recognizing said strings via trapdoor, and o is a transform
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4580 @ 0.00057044 = 2.6126 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: really, a properly behaving o shouldn't be a big deal to write neh ?
ascii_butugychag: incidentally, to answer a question that jurov asked a while ago, it is not only possible to use an arbitrary hash function with v, but even, theoretically, to use none at all.
ascii_butugychag: this would result in gargantuan vpatches, but... utterly unassailable.
jurov: and my other question about maintaining A and A' in "mempool" ?
PeterL: can v press to multiple heads, or do I have to pick one?
jurov: does v allow to press both AB and A' from one repository?
ascii_butugychag: jurov: A and A' are, if dropped in the hopper, equally legit pressings
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14295 @ 0.00057044 = 8.1544 BTC [+]
jurov: but the actual files must be renamed, no?
PeterL: I mean, I see leafs of malleus_mikehearnification and maxint_locks_corrected, what if I want to include both? or am I misunderstanding what is going on?
polarbeard: why isn't the last version the only valid one?
ascii_butugychag: PeterL: my original vtron was controlled by manually selecting patch sets
PeterL: I am looking at mod6's v, and trying to figure out how to control it?
ascii_butugychag: place the ones you want in a dir, make sure you have the desired seals, and press
mircea_popescu: <jurov> and my other question about maintaining A and A' in "mempool" ? << everything is in the mempool al ltime anyway.
ascii_butugychag: my point was that there is not a special knob, you don't need it, your unix file system is the knob
mod6: i know at one point i did negitive tests on this, but my problem in there is idiotic, i was not paying close enough attention
ascii_butugychag: want both? include both, and let it press everything it can see
mod6: when you press, if the hash of the pressed file doens't match the expected, it should die right then and there.
polarbeard: I actually do that, but because metamake is really dumb :(
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13812 @ 0.00057044 = 7.8789 BTC [+]
mod6: im testing the wrong fucking scalar in my condition :<
jurov: phf how do you solve multiple versions of one vpatch?
PeterL: (p | press) (<press_dir> <head>) << so I have to specify the genesis? what is head?
PeterL: oh, I was thinking about it upside down, I guess
PeterL: ok, so what do I use as head? one of the leafs?
PeterL: but if I use a leaf, will it include the other leafs?
jurov: i guess this is not implemented yet, ability to press multiple non-conflicting heads at once
ascii_butugychag: (you could cut into the middle of a leaf set more or less alphabetically)
ascii_butugychag: my intent was that the user would include ALL of the leaves he is interested in by using a custom patch dir, and then press to the last.
ascii_butugychag: this would give you the entire tree as represented by your patches+seals+keys set.
jurov: !up ascii_butugychag
ascii_butugychag: ~that way~ you will end with a press of the last makes-sense pressing !
ascii_butugychag: the result of a 'patch' ever not matching the hash, SHOULD NOT HAPPEN
jurov: <troll>why include the context then? use ed output format or such</troll>
ascii_butugychag: jurov: context could, theoretically, be regenerated from the file.
thestringpuller: should be mandatory kids learn to code on that for at least one project.
ascii_butugychag: shinohai: that article is mega-unsurprising, coinbase is following 'letter of the law' in usa
ascii_butugychag: if i dump a credit card into my own 'paypal' input, they will dutifully tally it up and 'income'
mod6: ascii_butugychag: hey, can you take a look at this? i pressed up to the vpatch in the flow before polars then.. manually patched with -F 0, but didn't seem to do anything:
ascii_butugychag: go, build arse-mouth system, rack up $1B in tax, $10M in paypal fee, ahve fun
mod6: thats what i gather too.
mod6: ok, well, we can worry about that later when we write our own patch-o-matic
mod6: meanwhile, I'll work on an automated test for this change and work on republishing this fix as a one change deal. will be v99995
polarbeard: that's it, I'm patching every .c on my disk together with F 1000 and compiling it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14500 @ 0.00056976 = 8.2615 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3698 @ 0.00057044 = 2.1095 BTC [+]
punkman: polarbeard: actually F0 didn't apply offset << it should, if you offset the code. but it must find the context verbatim
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag> my intent was that the user would include ALL of the leaves he is interested in by using a custom patch dir, and then press to the last. << this is not a bad approach (for dev work). i wouldn't want it in the press-for-deploy, but different story.
mircea_popescu: <polarbeard> that's it, I'm patching every .c on my disk together with F 1000 and compiling it << lmao. STONE SOUP!
punkman: I'm thinking any diff replacement should do strictly binary diffs, and only include line-oriented context diff as a visual aid
mircea_popescu: punkman i've been thinking about it too, seems in point of fact we're mangling two distinct things. 1) patches-as-code ; 2) patches-as-human-readable.
punkman: F must be lower than number of context lines, so F 3 should do the same as F 1000 in most cases :P
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i think salsa was djb's own version of shiva, ie, "playing with ; don't use in anger"
punkman: djb's ChaCha is getting pretty popular these days
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13700 @ 0.00057044 = 7.815 BTC [+]
punkman: "New features of Latin dances: Analysis of Salsa, ChaCha, and Rumba." << lol this title
mircea_popescu: incidentally, thinking vaguely along the lines of making a b-a call for papers for symm cypher, what would we actually want ? i'm thinking a) block sizes of 1, 4, 16, 64 kbytes. none of that bit-denominated bs, wtf is this, 64 bits. fuck that. b) key size of 64kb fixed. c) bonus points for proved hardness, as-hard-as-x etc d) bonus points for not using just basic arithmetics. fuck this shift-and-xor hack-and-slash bs,
☟︎☟︎ mircea_popescu: there's plenty of interesting constructions in alt-algebras, number and set theory etc.
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7800 @ 0.00056976 = 4.4441 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: basically, do everything exactly opposite to the "wisdom" of a very inept if deeply self-pompositous field