log
mircea_popescu: who da fuck is this nick ? he knew it plain two decades prior.
mircea_popescu: Oh, for an honest Libertarian who would say "Yes, in Libertopia we'd have rampant quackery, organ-seizure, baby-selling, slavery in all but name - BUT THAT'S FREEDOM!" ~Seth Finkelstein
mircea_popescu: as it happens, i've been saying exactly that. course, the honest libertarian apparently doesn't personally use the terminology of some random polis to describe himself, nor does the random polis readily recognize him, and so... seth's safe.
mircea_popescu: “We have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified dramatic statements, and make little mention of any doubts we may have. Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest. ” ~Stephen Schneider, environmental activist, in _Discover_, Oct. '89
mircea_popescu: aaand
mircea_popescu: “Independent self-reliant people would be a counterproductive anachronism in the collective society of the future where people will be defined by their associations.” 1896 ~John Dewey, of the dewey system.
mircea_popescu: and on that note, gnite all!
cazalla: !up cryptoflood
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: find rate at which it decrypts/encrypts << not built for speed.
thestringpuller: still good metric to have if you expect to decrypt backup from it
asciilifeform: 'That the powers that be may have made it somehow understood that full disclosure might carry undisclosed, but very dire consequences indeed.' << lol
asciilifeform: ^ http://cryptome.org/2014/11/all-snowden-papers.htm
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1xRAn5z )
undata: asciilifeform: current political footballs include immigration and climate change...
undata: seems like he could've leaked us having gas chambers and the response would've been similar
asciilifeform: undata: one hypothesis is that the average chump has a limited width 'revelation register' that easily overflows.
undata: asciilifeform: could be
asciilifeform: undata: note, for instance, the reaction to the (ancient - 1970s) leak of u.s. having (empty) concentration camps, complete with concertina wire, waiting
asciilifeform: the reaction is, invariably, 'you nutter'
asciilifeform: see also:
asciilifeform: !s crank bait
assbot: 13 results for 'crank bait' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=crank+bait
undata: it wouldn't shock me if people have some hard-wiring to accept abuse from authority
asciilifeform: accept abuse - that would not be astonishing.
asciilifeform: but this is something else
asciilifeform: this is more like http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-11-2014#926251☝︎
assbot: Logged on 17-11-2014 04:35:56; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they wish to steal not merely the farmer's cow, but to also steal the farmer's "having being stolen from" << usg (and the 'enlightenment') in one sentence.
asciilifeform: the 'sense of stolen from' atrophied.
undata: ^ I found that a fascinating way of describing it.
undata: alienation, no?
asciilifeform: sorta like the folks who once proposed to grow chickens lacking brains
asciilifeform: this was accomplished. but not with chickens.
undata: yeah, I suspect they're paying people very well to find clever ways to subvert the language
asciilifeform: goes beyond subversion of language
undata: asciilifeform: hm, all ears
asciilifeform: at this point, quite a few people will not believe, e.g., the camps, even when they end up inside.
asciilifeform: it will be a 'temporary relocation center' to them, even when the shower heads start hissing out the zyklon.
undata: asciilifeform: is this some kind of cowardly reaction to mortality?
undata: "if I just believe the leader, I will be saved"
decimation: "Global capital is pouring into the USD" << USD, the original altcoin
asciilifeform not a shrink, cannot answer. but will point the interested reader to the - not really secret - chronicles of german camp inmates collecting scraps of ss uniforms, role playing the roles of jailers, other manifestations of syndrome
undata: asciilifeform: "house slaves" ?
asciilifeform: undata: if you're thinking of 'capos' - that's another phenomenon.
asciilifeform: elementary selling out for bread
asciilifeform: this here is something quite else.
asciilifeform: !s how the world works
assbot: 59 results for 'how the world works' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=how+the+world+works
undata: seems like the inmate has no choice but to accept the jailer/inmate dynamic, and then in madness runs for the higher symbolic ground
undata: whereas in the case of the guy who denies he's in a gas chamber, he's straining his best to deny the category
ben_vulpes: <cazalla> could call it.. the brockchain << YOU STOP THAT
asciilifeform: mockchain.
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> ;;later tell ben_vulpes http://www.loper-os.org/pub/debug.log.gz << barf log from one of my runs. << chrome is actually rendering this in my browser
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ETBbHK )
ben_vulpes: what is wrong with the world
ben_vulpes: is that actually a text file?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: yes
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it's the standard debug.log that bitcoind craps out
ben_vulpes: with a .gz suffix
asciilifeform: gzipped
ben_vulpes fell for the headfake
asciilifeform: what's the issue again?
ben_vulpes: nothing
kakobrekla: <ben_vulpes> what is wrong with the world < http headers
asciilifeform: i mean, it's actually a gzip
kakobrekla: browsers speak gzip
ben_vulpes: a i figured chrome tried to turn it into text, rendered it
ben_vulpes: but asciilifeform's server is setting a text header?
asciilifeform: quite a few browsers will try to ungzip
decimation: mike_c: "To enforce the law one must be above the reach of the law" is pretty much the US m.o. since... Nixon at least << nah, Nixon was actually trying to clean house, was pushed out by those who are above the law
asciilifeform: last u.s. president who tried to, well, preside.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: 'ERROR: ConnectInputs() : xxxxxxx mapTransactions prev not found xxxxxxxx' is likely the key, in some form, to the riddle
ben_vulpes: to the gdb, boys!
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: did your run lead to a similar barf ?
decimation: asciilifeform: I've been reading Herr Kokkarinen, there are some great quotes there: "Instead of being some hardcore immigration restrictionist, I very much look forward to the future when we white devils become a minority in all Western countries... We educated conservative white males will prosper in the Balkanized low-trust society whose overburdened social welfare net has run out of other people's money and collapsed into a
decimation: bitter ethnic struggle over the few remaining spoils"
decimation: "The Brazilification of society can be a samba carnival assuming you approach it the right way, and most importantly, get to live on the pleasant side of the barbed wire fence."
decimation: "Naturally, we should also immediately start rationing those scarce medical nuclear isotopes used in cancer treatments, so that those who oppose nuclear power would always be the last in the priority queue to receive them."
xanthyos: !up aspirant
danielpbarron: oh hi aspirant!
aspirant: hi
danielpbarron: nice
danielpbarron: welcome to a channel that actually matters
danielpbarron: here are the rules: http://trilema.com/2013/bitcoin-assets-rules-and-regulations/
assbot: #bitcoin-assets rules and regulations pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/14BP426 )
cazalla: http://qntra.net/2014/11/lamassu-100th-bitcoin-atm-operational/
assbot: Lamassu: 100th Bitcoin ATM Operational | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/14BTDcT )
TheNewDeal: The FIRST bitcoin atm
undata: AML/KYC on a vending machine.
undata: a vending machine for numbers
cazalla: danielpbarron: you could stream pokemon trades through ashbot << i lolled
asciilifeform: http://www.identitymindglobal.com/blog/identitymind-lamassu-bitcoin-atm << lol re: the seemingly total absence of physically relevant detail (does the thing scan fingerprints? arseprints?)
assbot: Announcing Our Partnership with Lamassu Bitcoin Ventures: Fast, Compliant Bitcoin ATM Machines | IDM Global ... ( http://bit.ly/14BXQ07 )
asciilifeform: 'automated SAR filing' << l0l!
asciilifeform: don't withdraw 3k usd.
asciilifeform: or wait, do. refusing to do it is, iirc, its own crime in usa
asciilifeform: !s structuring
assbot: 336 results for 'structuring' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=structuring
asciilifeform: ^ #b-a search is broken. why am i seeing text that does not contain the literal word 'structuring' ?
asciilifeform: are we 'google' now?
kakobrekla: that would be mthreat domain
mats_cd03: hm, http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=%22structuring%22 doesn't do it either.
assbot: 336 results for '"structuring"' - #bitcoin-assets search
asciilifeform will laugh if it comes out that #b-a search was using 'google' internally
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH2] 2000 @ 0.0012 = 2.4 BTC
punkman: stemming's handy, gotta be able to turn it off though
kakobrekla: i think its searchify.com
asciilifeform: stemming's handy << no.
kakobrekla: >@mthreat
kakobrekla: Entrepreneur, hacker, software engineer. Founder of @getsearchify (http://www.searchify.com ). Previously employee #1 at http://indeed.com .
assbot: Job Search | one search. all jobs. Indeed.com ... ( http://bit.ly/14BZyPf )
kakobrekla: just a guess though
asciilifeform: 'i meant what i said, and i said what i meant, a walrus is certain one hundred percent' - or how did that rhyme go...
asciilifeform: srsly, this is the last place i expected to run into 'luser phriendly' crud
asciilifeform: a turd is so much more offensive when in an otherwise pristine art gallery, than in a back alley.
undata: message ilike '%term%' and ...
undata: or postgres has some full text niceness
asciilifeform: no ill will for the author, but he is clearly using some stale dough in recipe.
undata: -ify, -ly, etc, tends to make me think the company will go under soon
asciilifeform: lyifyly.
asciilifeform: ^ suggested as name for next big silicon valley chumpfest
undata: asciilifeform: is that your branding company name?
undata: heh
undata: glossolalify
nubbins`: i made korean food for supper and it was so goddamn good
nubbins`: undata oo good one
mats_cd03: asciilifeform: doubtless the requirement varies based on jurisdiction. if its anything like the Robocoin ATM at the Hacker Dojo in Mt View, it'll be 1. palm print 2. photo 3. govt id
TheNewDeal: love all those little side dishes
nubbins`: i wonder what percentage of startups had their names chosen by pentecostals
mats_cd03: in the case of that idiot ATM, you have to provide all 3
nubbins`: TheNewDeal unfortunately with no korean market here, side dishes are a practical impossibility
nubbins`: i was barely able to scrape together ingredients for what i made
nubbins`: but still. first decent kimbap i've had in ages
mats_cd03: korean food is terrible
TheNewDeal: I had some spicy goat soup earlier this week, was delicious
asciilifeform: mats_cd03: anyone who agrees to use this abomination, deserves to be in the db
mats_cd03: the least refined cuisine of any culture i have ever had
TheNewDeal: you've traveled there?
mats_cd03: ok, terrible is excessive. but certainly least creative
asciilifeform: incidentally, anyone who makes any use whatsoever of these machines does so at peril of his life. because that db will eventually be put to use.
mats_cd03: i'm also not a big fan of koreans. so i'm biased.
asciilifeform: 'but i didn't send the coin to jihad' - tell that to the inquisitor.
nubbins`: mats_cd03 eat shit
nubbins`: korean food is the pinnacle of cuisine
mats_cd03: lol
undata: dat korean bbq
nubbins`: it is literally the only thing i miss about that place, and i miss it SO BAD.
asciilifeform: users of atm: there will be arseprints associated with some coin, somewhere, and they won't be mine. they will be yours.
mats_cd03: kbbq and kimchi is literally the only thing anybody in the known universe recalls of korean food
undata is unaware if that is americanized korean food
undata: mats_cd03: I also love kimchi, come at me bro
TheNewDeal: yes, it's tasty
nubbins`: kimbap, kimchi jjigae, mandoo, ddeok bokki, bibimbap, omu rice...
nubbins` drools
nubbins`: samgyeopsal..
nubbins`: undata kimchi is literally eaten with every meal
nubbins`: like, breakfast? kimchi and rice
mats_cd03: ive never traveled there TheNewDeal
undata: nubbins`: you do, or that's standard practice
nubbins`: i hate cold kimchi. but that's standard practice
nubbins`: they love it
undata: korans, world-class poopers.
undata: *eans
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1YZFQSS.txt )
asciilifeform: !b 2
nubbins`: there are -- no joke -- special appliances the size of large deep-freezes called kimchi fridges
nubbins`: and almost every home has one
nubbins`: and it's JUST for kimchi.
undata: I see no problem with that.
mats_cd03: used to be they'd just put the ingredients in a clay pot and bury it.
nubbins`: nah, it's great. when was the last time you saw a new major kitchen appliance that you'd never heard of?
nubbins`: mats_cd03 lots of old folks still do
undata: nubbins`: all the time, but alas, I am an uncultured southerner
nubbins`: you gotta get that old shit, like 1 year +
asciilifeform: norway ought to run a cultural exchange with korea, teach them lutefisk, rakefisk.
decimation: how to rot fish in a jar 101
nubbins`: asciilifeform http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hongeohoe
assbot: Hongeohoe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/14C2GL1 )
asciilifeform: lol piss fish
decimation: in south korea they sell 'kimchi machines'
undata: "It is also often served with the Korean alcoholic beverage makgeolli, which helps diners cope with the pungency of the fermented dish." << gold.
decimation: they look like freezers, but really are designed to hold the fish guts at the right temp and humidity to ferment
undata: I like eating fermented rot as much as the next guy, but come on people, standards!
punkman: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surstr%C3%B6mming
assbot: Surströmming - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/14C3bVc )
nubbins`: decimation we were literally just talking about that
nubbins`: <+nubbins`> there are -- no joke -- special appliances the size of large deep-freezes called kimchi fridges
decimation: heh sorry I'm not there yet in the logs
nubbins`: :D
nubbins`: samsung made some nice ones
decimation: any building in korea where kimchi is made has a permanent 'stank'
nubbins`: you have no idea how many buildings that describes
asciilifeform remembers hearing similar factoid re: durian fruit
asciilifeform: in southeast asia.
asciilifeform: allowed in certain places, forbidden in others - like smoking in usa
TheNewDeal: better than fish sauce... that stuff smells horrid
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56350 @ 0.00055 = 30.9925 BTC [+]
TheNewDeal: Walked by a dumpster at a sushi joint and I almost vomitted
decimation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Singapore_MRT_Fines.jpg
assbot: File:Singapore MRT Fines.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/14C45Ry )
TheNewDeal: what is MRT, some metro?
decimation: yeah http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_Rapid_Transit_%28Singapore%29
assbot: Mass Rapid Transit (Singapore) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/14C4weE )
TheNewDeal: hating on durians, the bastards
decimation: when I lived on the east coast I used to walk to work. at one corner, there was a 'crab shack' with a dumpster - in the summer the smell was repulsive for at least 500 feet
nubbins`: i've never tried durian
mats_cd03: durian is a weapon of mass destruction
mats_cd03: as a young man i ruined the interior of a rival's BMW with durian extract i bought on the internets
decimation: wow that's pretty nasty
nubbins`: hahaha
nubbins`: a rival!
mats_cd03: i still have the vial, half full. 'for emergencies'.
TheNewDeal: does it smell?
mats_cd03: ya. it lives in a box lined with dryer sheets
cazalla: http://qntra.net/2014/11/melanie-shapiros-cryptolabs-launches-gsm-enabled-hardware-wallet-with-camera/
assbot: Melanie Shapiro's CryptoLabs Launches GSM Enabled Hardware Wallet With Camera | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1EXkHQN )
asciilifeform: mats_cd03: most people use methyl mercaptan, i thought
asciilifeform: cazalla: gsm, fingerprint wallet << rofl
cazalla: asciilifeform, don't forget the camera
kakobrekla: shutup she is almost cute
cazalla: who is gonna use such a thing? i don't even need to be technically minded to know there is no chance i would use a wallet with a camera
mats_cd03: yeah i suppose im not most people
asciilifeform: aha, and 'cloud.'
asciilifeform: someone is simply hardware-trolling ?
thestringpuller: ;;ud hardware-trolling
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/?define.php%3Fterm=trolling&page=301 | Bricking your hardware leaves you with a new paperweight. Can be the end effect of a faulty flash or firmware update, a modification (mod) gone bad or being  ...
kakobrekla: also did you see the rigol
kakobrekla: same stuff ascii showed up with
kakobrekla: gotta be legit
asciilifeform: wai where
kakobrekla: the video
kakobrekla: http://vimeo.com/110783469
assbot: Introducing Case on Vimeo ... ( http://bit.ly/1EXoKwj )
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: nope. that's the cheapo rigol
asciilifeform: no logic analyzer.
kakobrekla: sorry i forgot which model you had, recalled the brand.
asciilifeform: this is the miser's version of the one i have
decimation: asciilifeform: is there a good free vhdl simulator w/timing analysis?
decimation: xilinux stuff sucks
asciilifeform: vhdl specifically?
decimation: yeah, unfortunately
asciilifeform: i use 'verilator' and have also used 'icarus'
asciilifeform: but both verilog-only
asciilifeform can't stand vhdl
asciilifeform: verbose garbage.
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: what i can't figure out is why the rigol appears in that film
decimation: yeah it is annoying how you must put 50 lines of pro-forma crap before you actually code
kakobrekla: asciilifeform to let us know they spend more on the video than their tech gear
asciilifeform: or why soldering monkey (almost painful to watch)
kakobrekla: yes, not even doing anything real
asciilifeform: 'no real things were harmed in the making of this film'
kakobrekla: fits the desc of the device
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: http://imgur.com/Ff3DlCm
assbot: imgur: the simple image sharer ... ( http://bit.ly/1EXr5Hu )
asciilifeform: cazalla: ^ consider for 'qntra'
thestringpuller: what's the story?
asciilifeform: taken from the ad kakobrekla linked
asciilifeform: a scene of a kid pretending to solder
asciilifeform: there are a few more of similar derps pretending to debug, etc.
kakobrekla: hehe
nubbins`: cazalla something like this might let you have a bit more usable real estate on the sidebar
nubbins`: http://pastebin.com/LEUUqWb9
assbot: [HTML] <aside id="recent-posts-2" class="widget widget_recent_entries"> <h1 class="w - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1EXrTfL )
nubbins`: those ul bullets are taking up a massive amount of space
asciilifeform: that clip was unbelievably loathesome, so much so that even hard to begin describing how
nubbins`: interrducing cayss
nubbins`: we can soddrrr
asciilifeform: and i didn't even have audio switched on.
cazalla: <asciilifeform> cazalla: ^ consider for 'qntra' <<< amusing now that i've googled what a solder bridge is, i wouldn't want to add it and act smug as if i knew prior though
cazalla: nubbins`, i'll defer to BingoBoingo for that
cazalla: asciilifeform, maybe post it as a comment then you can get credit for pointing it out
decimation: I don't get it, some blonde rambling is loathesome?
nubbins`: cazalla BingoBoingo the underlined links should also go, they look not nice
nubbins`: in the sidebar, i mean
decimation watched without skipping, realizes the loathesomeness
decimation: lol that guy put like a gallon of solder on that dip
nubbins`: how does it steal my bitcoins?
nubbins`: they don't touch on that at all
decimation: that clip is a parade of every nerd stereotype
decimation: also here's her PhD: http://shesquad.com/melanie-shapiro/ "Dr. Melanie Shapiro holds a PhD in Consumer Behavior and specializes in customer acquisition, branding strategy and digital marketing. "
assbot: Melanie Shapiro, Ph.D. | SheSquad ... ( http://bit.ly/1EXugyZ )
kakobrekla: > Melanie excels at using the most up-to-date social tools to creatively promote a brand and attract relevant customers.
kakobrekla: aha
decimation: ;;rate -1 melanie_shapiro crass propagandist
gribble: Error: 'melanie_shapiro' is not a valid integer.
decimation: ;;rate melanie_shapiro -1 crass propagandist
gribble: Error: User doesn't exist in the Rating or GPG databases. User must be GPG-registered to receive ratings.
kakobrekla: aha more pics https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2rmJPuCcAAgjdZ.jpg:large
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1EXuxly )
kakobrekla: und https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2r3c2gIAAA36LG.jpg:large
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1EXuF4z )
nubbins`: dat cable of appropriate length
kakobrekla: some sort of arduino with a keypad
decimation: if that were a EE senior design project I would give it an F
kakobrekla: anyway the logo is not so bad
decimation: Decadence does not derive from an excess of civilization, but from the attempt to take advantage of civilization in order to elude the prohibitions of which it consists. http://don-colacho.blogspot.com/2010/06/1344.html
assbot: Don Colacho’s Aphorisms: #1,344 ... ( http://bit.ly/1EXvbzF )
decimation: http://freehdl.seul.org
assbot: FreeHDL index Page ... ( http://bit.ly/1EXyg2y )
asciilifeform: cazalla: posted as comment.
decimation: asciilifeform: I like how he just keeps applying more solder
asciilifeform: 'attract relevant customers' << gold
asciilifeform: implication - must carefully repel irrelevant customers
asciilifeform: like us.
decimation: also note he isn't actually soldering anything together
kakobrekla: dafuq do you know, maybe you need to bridge two pins together with a diode hanging for no reason to make it work
decimation: yeah
asciilifeform: piece of shit has attracted far more attention from actual people than ever deserved
asciilifeform: and that woman is probably planted on a solid gold toilet as we speak
asciilifeform: while good men die.
decimation: maybe they have some secret new technique for joining circuitry with solder bridges
decimation: asciilifeform: the page I linked above does list her prominent bezzle connections
asciilifeform: 'SheSquad' ?!?!?!
asciilifeform: shesquat.
decimation: asciilifeform: http://countersignal.tumblr.com/post/102817028423/i-keep-telling-people-to-look-at-where-things-come << I didn't realize that usg/nato were responsible for 'cultural marxism'
assbot: zang tumb tumbl — i keep telling people to look at where things come... ... ( http://bit.ly/1EUfneS )
decimation: I suppose this is what became "resistance through culture"
decimation: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/modern-art-was-cia-weapon-1578808.html
assbot: Modern art was CIA 'weapon' - World - News - The Independent ... ( http://bit.ly/1EUg7kj )
asciilifeform: above article (fairly well-known) omits one important role
asciilifeform: turd-art as a bezzle altcoin
decimation: that's an interesting point. it would 'have value' even behind the iron curtain
asciilifeform: canvas, the original altcoin for the lizard lords.
decimation: in the middle ages, trade in 'relics' was pretty much the same thing
asciilifeform: mostly small-time chumps there
decimation: perhaps the religion of the age can be identified by its idol trade
asciilifeform: but the lizard who buys a $40m rembrandt is not a fool, he knows he can get $50 next year
asciilifeform: m
asciilifeform: this is why an art forget should be regarded, by sane folks, as a hero
asciilifeform: *forger
decimation: heh
decimation: especially if the forgery is the ugly canvas-vomit of some drunken fag-hag
asciilifeform: every mouse, every rat, gnawing on the sacks in which bezzle lords safely squirrel away their wealth - is doing good work.
decimation: of course, 'forging' the work of old masters (imitating it openly) is also virtuous
asciilifeform: let a thousand synthetic diamonds bloom.
decimation: now if only we could forge yachts and Manhattan condos
asciilifeform: well, in fact, 'we' can
decimation: how's that?
asciilifeform: try buy $1b 'of them' and notice that most of the resulting 'ownership' is physically-inaccessible leveraged crud
asciilifeform: i.e. bezzle.
decimation: http://business.time.com/2012/02/24/how-the-u-s-could-pressure-north-korea-tomorrow-quit-the-100-bill/
assbot: U.S. Should Quit $100 Bill to Stop N. Korea Counterfeiting | TIME.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1EUhO10 )
asciilifeform: 'ban the benjie' << mega-lol
decimation: asciilifeform: the story and the source indicates the idea-balloon has been floated
decimation: 'only an enemy of the state would use cash'
BingoBoingo: Eh, US will probably have to bring back Woodrow Wilson bills sometime these next couple decades
asciilifeform: zimbabwinners.
BingoBoingo: Gotta bribe the tribal chiefs with something
BingoBoingo: Also, art auctions: https://twitter.com/JoseCanseco/status/534495363642576896
assbot: I will soon put the finger that fell off in the poker tournament on eBay for sale
asciilifeform: ;;isup qntra.net
gribble: qntra.net is up
asciilifeform: lies.
asciilifeform: entirely dead.
kakobrekla: works here
decimation: dead for me
kakobrekla: http://qntra.net
assbot: Qntra.net | Bitcoin News, Views & Commentary ... ( http://bit.ly/1EUjfwA )
kakobrekla: try bitly
kakobrekla: no cigar lolwtf
asciilifeform: 'could not be loaded'
decimation: nope
kakobrekla: mebbe cause im whitelisted
kakobrekla: yup, tried from de, no luck
cazalla: dead here :\
kakobrekla: well i can read it for you
asciilifeform: finger that fell off in the poker tournament << leprosy ?
kakobrekla: here is the latest comment http://dpaste.com/0A3QQFC.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1xyUTcQ )
decimation: > It is certainly amazing how technology and commerce allow mass production of plastic spoons to be sold for three cents apiece, well worth the time and convenience they save me. However, all centrally planned green policies and their wannabe implementers always assign zero value for other people's time and convenience. Since the left instinctively despises everything that gives normal people more time, freedom or material wealth,
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
decimation: they have always hated suburbs, nuclear power, shopping malls, automobiles... and plastics, which could not exist under a centrally planned green economy. I would therefore like to ask all my readers to take a look around them and note everything plastic, and then say a quiet "thank you" to the right-wingers who made it possible for everything that Brutopians consider "wasteful" to exist at all. << Herr Kokkarinen
decimation: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=401 << related
assbot: Loper OS » Of Lisp Macros and Washing Machines ... ( http://bit.ly/1xKD4oH )
BingoBoingo: Shit's getting real http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/nick-pistor/national-guard-troops-will-hit-st-louis-city-s-streets/article_14d736ab-6f7e-565f-bbee-f6a3eb5d551b.html
assbot: National Guard troops will hit St. Louis city's streets in secondary role : News ... ( http://bit.ly/1vkLVj9 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13030 @ 0.00086038 = 11.2108 BTC [+]
cazalla: BingoBoingo, when is the grand jury decision due?
BingoBoingo: cazalla: No set date, but... probably happening soon
BingoBoingo: http://valleywag.gawker.com/rap-genius-co-founder-finally-pushes-venture-capitalist-1659931527/+gabriellebluestone
assbot: Rap Genius Co-Founder Finally Pushes Venture Capitalist Over the Edge ... ( http://bit.ly/1xKQKA8 )
BingoBoingo: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/pants-up-don-t-loot-ferguson-billboard << Oh, the ways white America scores own goals
assbot: Pants Up Don't Loot Ferguson Billboard | Indiegogo ... ( http://bit.ly/1xKTXQ5 )
mircea_popescu: !up Guest154
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform undata http://trilema.com/2014/between-the-hammer-and-the-anvil/ << there, you inspired me.
assbot: Between the hammer and the anvil… pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1xizrHF )
BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2014/11/mcxnow-says-it-is-becoming-mtmox/
assbot: mcxNow Says it is Becoming mtMOX | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1xiAabR )
mircea_popescu: lol
punkman: "I'll be willing to complete the beta as quickly as possible if people want to donate some BTC to me, this way I can show the wife it's more like a job than a hobby. As to the amount, I think 250BTC would be enough to get her off my back"
punkman: lol
punkman: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wife_acceptance_factor
assbot: Wife acceptance factor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1EYGLKH )
mircea_popescu: hahahaah what ?
mircea_popescu: punkbot tell this man's wife 0.1 BTC and tits already.
mircea_popescu: hm. no more notary ?
punkman: all that uptime, I must make it disconnect more
mircea_popescu: punkman no i mean, back to being punkbot
punkman: yeah I mean it'd change back to notary if it disconnects, but otherwise not smart enough yet
mircea_popescu: ah ah
mircea_popescu: "It will be as revolutionary as mcxNOW was originally in 2013." << i clearly missed out on yet another biggestfirstbest revolution
mircea_popescu: what was this thing ?
punkman: some derpxchange
mircea_popescu: o wait, realsolid's latest scam.
mircea_popescu: i c.
mircea_popescu: 16 people in #mtMOX heh.
BingoBoingo: Yes, the Bitcoin to shitcoin thing
mircea_popescu: ;;gettrust Realsolid
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user Realsolid: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=mircea_popescu&dest=Realsolid | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Realsolid | Rated since: never
mircea_popescu: we raided!
BingoBoingo: Yeah, I'll lurk until I see a response
mircea_popescu: i enjoyed the article lol.
mircea_popescu had no idea how great a qntra will be until qntra was finally made, and now he's like... omfg how did i live before.
BingoBoingo: Thanks, benefit of having last November's mcxNAO article I wrote to crib off of.
mircea_popescu: So people are asking what is happening with MicroCash, especially in regards to me. There are 2 problems I ran into in late May. 1) Needing to make some money 2) Lack of motivation
mircea_popescu: lmao i 1) know! 2) let's make 3) a 4) list.
mircea_popescu: IT'S FUN! ANYONE CAN DO IT!
BingoBoingo: To think that the Ad platform was going to come before a place to park an ad platform!
mircea_popescu: I know people think "one day" SolidCoin/MicroCash will be worth a lot but it's hard to sell that to a wife as I'm sure some of you may be aware! <<< actually, it's difficult to sell that generally.
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0TV4YRD.txt )
BingoBoingo: !b 1
mircea_popescu: 4. CH releases article "Solidcoin Ready For Bitcoin Collapse".
mircea_popescu: bwahahaha oh the precious. reminds me of all the forum ninnies getting ready for "mp's extradition!11"
BingoBoingo: http://dpaste.com/01TD6GH << Looky their reaction
assbot: dpaste: 01TD6GH: #mtmox raid!!! ... ( http://bit.ly/1EYJLa4 )
mircea_popescu: https://web.archive.org/web/20130102185102/http://solidcoin.info/solidcoin-ready-for-bitcoin-collapse.php
assbot: SolidCoin is ready for Bitcoin collapse ... ( http://bit.ly/1EYJPq9 )
mircea_popescu: foir the terminally curious.
punkman: http://bitcoin.ninja/
assbot: Bitcoin Ninja ... ( http://bit.ly/1uCYjJw )
mircea_popescu: #bitcoin-wizards ?!
mircea_popescu: oh that thing. mkay.
punkman: Aight, I put on my robe and wizard hat.
mircea_popescu: https://botbot.me/freenode/bitcoin-wizards/
assbot: Logs for #bitcoin-wizards | BotBot.me [o__o] ... ( http://bit.ly/1uCYHrl )
mircea_popescu: as far as i can tell, a sort of wanna-be -assets minus the cool stuff.
BingoBoingo: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2mnkr3/mcxnow_says_it_is_becoming_mtmox_can_realsolid/
assbot: mcxNow Says it is Becoming mtMOX: Can RealSolid Count to 3? : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1EYL7Sc )
mircea_popescu: "What would government involvement in Bitcoin look like? Well one of their first goals would be to let the project stagnate. The disappearance of the founder "Satoshi" and appointment of Gavin Andresen, someone who has publicly admitted he doesn't want much to change in Bitcoin allows us to see one big reason for stagnation." << from the solidcoin derpage.
mircea_popescu: clearly, "stagnation" is what the progressive state wants out of things :D
BingoBoingo: lol
mircea_popescu: "After developing numerous sites and businesses using Bitcoin, those of us now involved with SolidCoin saw major problems. Massive flaws in interfacing with the Bitcoin network forced us to use numerous work-arounds, using nearly all of our decades long experience as computer scientists."
mircea_popescu: luckily, he has some of the decades left, it's not all used.
mircea_popescu: that thing's such a gem, i had forgotten.
mircea_popescu: "numerous sites and businsesses yo!"
mircea_popescu: anyway, let the record reflect that yes, there was a point in 2011 when gavin was sane.
mircea_popescu: "We wondered why nobody fixed the issues and made things easier for the many out there that aren't computer engineers. After some discussion with a few of the developers we came away completely surprised. They thought, and still do, Bitcoin is fine and very little needs to change."
mircea_popescu: "On top of this the recent release of SolidCoin has highlighted another problem in the Bitcoin protocol. It it susceptible to a drop off in "mining power", which is essentially the people who process transactions switching to more profitable things such as SolidCoin."
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: it will be a 'temporary relocation center' to them, even when the shower heads start hissing out the zyklon. <<< well, as tal said to pete, "what's my incentive to interact with reality ?"
mircea_popescu: decimation: mike_c: "To enforce the law one must be above the reach of the law" is pretty much the US m.o. since... Nixon at least << nah, Nixon was actually trying to clean house, was pushed out by those who are above the law << what, he gets points for trying ? there's better ways to clean things up than sending spooks to derp in offices.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24000 @ 0.00078865 = 18.9276 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: decimation: "The Brazilification of society can be a samba carnival assuming you approach it the right way, and most importantly, get to live on the pleasant side of the barbed wire fence." <<< this has been exactly my experience to date.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: ^ #b-a search is broken. why am i seeing text that does not contain the literal word 'structuring' ? <<< mthreat's thing has a stemmer.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10000 @ 0.00078865 = 7.8865 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: mats_cd03: durian is a weapon of mass destruction <<< you thinking Duriel ?
mircea_popescu: from http://qntra.net/2014/11/melanie-shapiros-cryptolabs-launches-gsm-enabled-hardware-wallet-with-camera/
assbot: Melanie Shapiro's CryptoLabs Launches GSM Enabled Hardware Wallet With Camera | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1EYRbdd )
mircea_popescu: ""We are the most secure option because we're a piece of dedicated hardware. We use multi-sig authentication. There are three keys and each of those keys is stored in a different location.""
mircea_popescu: i don't get this braindamage. "we're the most secure option because you don't actually own your keys" ?
mircea_popescu: decimation: also here's her PhD: http://shesquad.com/melanie-shapiro/ "Dr. Melanie Shapiro holds a PhD in Consumer Behavior and specializes in customer acquisition, branding strategy and digital marketing. " <<< ahh this chan delivers.
assbot: Melanie Shapiro, Ph.D. | SheSquad ... ( http://bit.ly/1EYS05M )
punkman: related: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-11-2014#920028☝︎
assbot: Logged on 13-11-2014 17:17:27; mrjr: los_pantalones: i run LedgerLock, we're working on a product called time-vault, to secure your bitcoins in nlocked transactions rather than protecting the priv key
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla: dafuq do you know, maybe you need to bridge two pins together with a diode hanging for no reason to make it work <<< this is how i used to solder things!
mircea_popescu: punkman ever get the impression that everyone's really working on the same thing ?
punkman: all the time
mircea_popescu: if they dropped the act and just got together maybe they';d finish it and then we could ignore an actual thing
mircea_popescu: rather than a lot of peri-blather.
mircea_popescu: assbot: U.S. Should Quit $100 Bill to Stop N. Korea Counterfeiting <<< yeah, THAT is why they'll quit it lmao
mircea_popescu: in other news, overweight redditards don't go out of the house for fear of rapists. not as you might imagine, for lack of long enough tanktracks
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23900 @ 0.00078944 = 18.8676 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: decimation: I would therefore like to ask all my readers to take a look around them and note everything plastic, and then say a quiet "thank you" to the right-wingers <<< imo that argument fails on pretty much all the angles.
mircea_popescu: aside the obvious objection that "right wingers" have nothing to do with all this, and aside the spurious conflation of plastics and nuclear power,
mircea_popescu: on one hand three cents is an insane price to pay for a plastic spoon. those things go for about a bitcoin a ton. so whatever, 500 satoshi each ?
mircea_popescu: on the other hand, outside some very narrow applicaitons such as i dunno, oversized icecream cones, i don't actually use nor would i want to use a plastic spoon. because what for ? do i need it to eat my campaign flan and i'm too far from an actual table with actual cutlery or something ?
cazalla: mircea_popescu, i'm gonna need to see your ID if you intend to purchase plastic knives for use in australia http://gunsnfreedom.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/knives-in-australia.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1EYUMIc )
punkman: cazalla, lol
mircea_popescu: see, it's stupidities of this sort that make me never want to visit places.
punkman: do they probe your ass if you want to buy a metal knife?
mircea_popescu: da fuck, pay money to go be somewhere where they want your id for plastic knives ?
cazalla: punkman, they'll arrest you for carrying a knife unless you happen to have a fishing rod with you, are a chef.. some "legitimate excuse" for having a knife in other words
mircea_popescu: what's the crime ?
mircea_popescu: "possession of man's tools" ?
punkman: I remember buying bread knife in UK, cashier advised "don't open it before you get home"
mircea_popescu remebers buying machete in costa rica, from roadside shop
punkman: was impossible to open plastic packaging without second knife anyway
cazalla: mircea_popescu, knives are a controlled weapon here, self defence is no excuse! in fact, worst excuse one can have
mircea_popescu: i suppose the 10 buns in a package producer lobby is working as we speak to make the bread knife illegal.
cazalla: technically, you can't even carry a screwdriver unless legitimate reason
mircea_popescu: ...
punkman: they should ban clothes, could use them to strangle people
mircea_popescu: cazalla is this in fact just giving the police ample room to hassle obnoxious teenagers ?
cazalla: prolly, never heard of anyone being arrested for this sort of shit but prob happens from time to time
mircea_popescu: aha.
punkman: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Hardfork_Wishlist
assbot: Hardfork Wishlist - Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1EYWxoV )
cazalla: i wonder if boomerangs are illegal
mircea_popescu: bitcoin.it becoming ever more relevant.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1003 @ 0.0012 = 1.2036 BTC [-] {2}
cazalla: you have a new fan BingoBoingo, see your latest article
BingoBoingo: Lulzy
mircea_popescu: here's a good one, asciilifeform, ben_vulpes, whoever else can follow the logic :
mircea_popescu: "Elimination of output scripts: all transactions pay-to-scripthash, probably with a single byte indicating the scripthash type. Other than reducing effective output script secrecy (which is not possible without OP_EVAL anyways) this is believed to be costless, and the secrecy can be recovered with recursive OP_EVAL. The motivation here is that data in outputs is far more expensive than inputs because some outputs may b
mircea_popescu: e never prunable, and pay-to-scripthash minimizes output size without harming total size."
cazalla: anyway zzz, needed a beer after installing gentoo and trying to install xfce, throws all these USE flags required and other shit, mircea_popescu recommended for noobs my ass, i'll smash the laptop
mircea_popescu: awww!
mircea_popescu: sorry c man. but think about it like the girl thinks of her virginity
mircea_popescu: it only hurts once.
mircea_popescu: after that, it itches.
mircea_popescu: and since doing this, bitcoin foundation (the actual one) may get a lol at just how sparse this is : https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Prohibited_changes
assbot: Prohibited changes - Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1EYY6TI )
mircea_popescu: maybe an idea to make a proper list ?
mircea_popescu: mod6 ^
mircea_popescu: and, for the curious soul, artforz' timewarp attack explained : https://bitcointa.lk/threads/possible-way-to-make-a-very-profitable-50-plus-ish-attack-for-pools.33704/#msg521772
assbot: Possible way to make a very profitable 50 plus ish attack for pools? | Bitcointa.lk ... ( http://bit.ly/1EYZ5TY )
mats_cd03: !t s.mpoe
assbot: Your actions are useless.
mats_cd03: !t m s.mpoe
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00053723 / 0.00069892 / 0.00086038 (205930 shares, 143.93 BTC), 7D: 0.00036402 / 0.00050195 / 0.00086038 (6274449 shares, 3,149.47 BTC), 30D: 0.00036402 / 0.00066341 / 0.00086038 (21990024 shares, 14,588.49 BTC)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2175 @ 0.00077616 = 1.6881 BTC [-]
mats_cd03: aaaand s.mpoe is back
mats_cd03: http://www.modernluxury.com/san-francisco/story/the-shrimp-boy-sessions-exclusive-four-part-conversation-the-alleged-gang-boss
assbot: San Francisco Magazine | Modern Luxury | The Shrimp Boy Sessions: A Jailhouse Conversation with the Alleged Gang Boss ... ( http://bit.ly/1vlCboS )
mats_cd03: "I am the OG here."
chetty: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/11/18/charles-manson-gets-wedding-license/
assbot: Charles Manson gets wedding license | Fox News ... ( http://bit.ly/1vlCKPy )
mats_cd03: awesome
punkman: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Breeders%27_Cup_betting_scandal
assbot: 2002 Breeders' Cup betting scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1zzAUIS )
danielpbarron: !up Gassho
danielpbarron: oh hi there!
Gassho: ty hi going to nap bye
Gassho falls asleep before napping
danielpbarron: hm, ok
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27100 @ 0.00076976 = 20.8605 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8950 @ 0.00076772 = 6.8711 BTC [-]
Gassho: :D
BingoBoingo: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20141118/03244829175/harry-reid-considering-attaching-part-sopa-to-surveillance-reform-bill.shtml
assbot: Harry Reid Wants To Attach Part Of SOPA To Surveillance Reform Bill | Techdirt ... ( http://bit.ly/1uqpaH5 )
BingoBoingo: https://twitter.com/TheRealSolid/status/534719940939358208 << Oh response
assbot: Old scammers going to continue scamming http://t.co/H33pMaUObw /TheRealSolid /hashtag/mtmox?src=hash
asciilifeform: maybe you need to bridge two pins together with a diode << someone did not grasp 'solder bridge.'
asciilifeform: which is the solder equivalent of a child's ink blot
asciilifeform: at the physical scale seen in the picture - a mistake from not knowing wtf one is doing
asciilifeform: 'hardfork wishlist' - 'Improved signature types to allow for partial malleability of outputs. (e.g. make it easier to add a fee onto someone else's transaction, or to take fees from a transaction without outputs set aside for that purpose)' << mega-lol!
asciilifeform: come to think of it, is there anything on that list that isn't either entirely inconsequential -or- a total atrocity ?
BingoBoingo: No
asciilifeform: !s Shannon Larratt
assbot: 1 results for 'Shannon Larratt' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=Shannon+Larratt
asciilifeform: what's a 'bme' anyway?
asciilifeform: tattoo artist ?
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu i was once astonished to learn that the 'one is overwhelmingly likely to be a gut bacterium' argument outlined in note iii of your article is not taught to modern children as a fallacy, but as a moral (!) imperative, called 'rawlsian veil of ignorance.'
gribble: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: Tattoos, piercing, cutting, assorted minor surgeries
asciilifeform: http://gizmodo.com/5895555/i-have-a-magnet-implant-in-my-finger << only genuinely interesting example i can recall
assbot: I Have a Magnet Implant In My Finger ... ( http://bit.ly/1t90uPp )
asciilifeform does not have or want magnet under skin
asciilifeform: !s pgp tattoo
assbot: 2 results for 'pgp tattoo' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=pgp+tattoo
asciilifeform: (are those still in fashion?)
asciilifeform always wondered, in that spirit, if there exist folks with 'useful' tattoos, e.g., one that turns you into a 'human slide rule'
BingoBoingo: Point >> https://twitter.com/rabite/status/534730518747963392
assbot: To all those tired of social degeneracy from cops, hippies and welfare leeches: if /hashtag/Ferguson?src=hash gets bombed you can get all three at once.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu with regard to the 'abuse of statistical devices' outlined in note iii, the accomplished master of the art is a fellow named yudkowsky (search #b-a log). he isn't an idiot, bastard knows exactly what he's doing, and his cult is a veritable vacuum trap for thinking folks
gribble: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/11/certificate-authority-encrypt-entire-web
assbot: Launching in 2015: A Certificate Authority to Encrypt the Entire Web | Electronic Frontier Foundation ... ( http://bit.ly/1t93k6Y )
asciilifeform: applying statistical (or otherwise) counterfactuals to an actual reality is a mistake of the same elementary scope as division by zero, or direct conversion of metres to grams - but for some reason which entirely escapes me, this is not obvious to people
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: RIP EFF.
BingoBoingo: Seems to be the case
asciilifeform: herr yudkowsky has quite a bit to answer for, including, iirc, inventing the 'simulation argument' brought up by the dead tattooist.
asciilifeform: (why no mention of the suicide weapon in the post? or did i miss it. what a disappointment. 'pics or it didn't happen!')
BingoBoingo: Perhaps he sought to put beads where beads ought not be put?
asciilifeform: she
asciilifeform: he?
asciilifeform: damn
BingoBoingo: I dunno. All of these Jew names.
asciilifeform: http://www.zentastic.com/blog/2013/03/16/finita-la-commedia-3
assbot: Shannon Larratt is Zentastic › Finita, la commedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1t94HCT )
asciilifeform can't be arsed to read again
BingoBoingo: Ah.
asciilifeform: incidentally, 'rawlsian veil', as i later found out, happens to be one of the dark elephants on which the entire satanic edifice of 'enlightenment' stands
asciilifeform: that is, 'slavery is bad mmkay because what if you were a slave'
asciilifeform: or 'include dead baby in life expectancy stats because what if you'd keeled over as a baby'
asciilifeform: as for why they don't include gut bacterium, while it seems like a logical implication - the core idiocy is something once called 'inner light doctrine', where 'humans' (as defined situationally, by the sc4mz0r, but generally rolling up all shaved apes) are 'special'
asciilifeform: and the rawlsian lottery is presumed to include only them
BingoBoingo: If this lottery were a think, gut bacterium probably wouldn't be the worst outcome. At least gut bacterium lack the faculties to realizes it is going to die for the cause of turdbuilding.
asciilifeform: i tentatively buy moldbug's argument that this is a specifically christian atavism (the hindus, for instance, make no such exception, and cheerfully proclaim that one is quite likely to 'reincarnate' as a bacterium)
asciilifeform: whether or not 'lizard hitlers' exist in the flesh, they certainly have an analogue in the hierarchy of mega-fallacies (that is, devices for leading otherwise intelligent people to do something damnably idiotic)
asciilifeform: and the 'veil' is one such.
BingoBoingo: Well this whole Jesus thing has kind of been a huge bummer for Western civilization ever since the Romans started taking it seriously
chetty: at least the 'pagan' religions had some fun
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19500 @ 0.00078286 = 15.2658 BTC [+]
asciilifeform wonders why nobody ever seems to say, 'you are most likely a hydrogen atom, somewhere very far away'
mod6: mircea_popescu: maybe an idea to make a proper list ? << Yup. I'll start a list of proper list. Will let you know when I've got something to show.
punkman: http://xaameriki.wordpress.com/2014/11/05/important-donation-info-updates/
assbot: IMPORTANT DONATION INFO UPDATES! | xaameriki - ΧΡΥΣΗ ΑΥΓΗ xrysh aygh GOLDEN DAWN news in english ... ( http://bit.ly/1t1PgNC )
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH2] 1715 @ 0.0012 = 2.058 BTC
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19400 @ 0.00078286 = 15.1875 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2014/11/st-petersburg-bitcoin-conference-december-4th/
assbot: St Petersburg Bitcoin Conference December 4th | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/11ySMZh )
BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2014/11/barry-silbert-to-form-usms-auction-bidding-syndicate-again/
assbot: Barry Silbert to Form USMS Auction Bidding Syndicate Again… | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1ur5ySY )
kakobrekla: half price now
BingoBoingo: Bargain
BingoBoingo: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/11/missouri-man-fired-for-posting-pictures-of-dhs-vans-to-facebook/
assbot: Missouri man fired for posting pictures of DHS vans to Facebook | Ars Technica ... ( http://bit.ly/1vmrPo4 )
BingoBoingo: !t m s.limbs
assbot: Your actions are useless.
BingoBoingo: !t m s.mnky
assbot: The eagle never lost so much time as when he submitted to learn from the crow.
BingoBoingo: !t m nat.routers
assbot: I thought I told you not to touch me.
BingoBoingo: more dev lulz https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2844
assbot: Add unauthenticated HTTP REST interface by jgarzik · Pull Request #2844 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1ur96oe )
thestringpuller: by jgarzik of course
thestringpuller: ;;gettrust jgarzik
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user thestringpuller to user jgarzik: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 2 via 1 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=thestringpuller&dest=jgarzik | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=jgarzik | Rated since: Mon Nov 8 13:35:30 2010
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 225 @ 0.00468 = 1.053 BTC [+] {2}
thestringpuller: !t m s.mpoe
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00053723 / 0.00072183 / 0.00086038 (290803 shares, 209.91 BTC), 7D: 0.00036402 / 0.00049929 / 0.00086038 (6087485 shares, 3,039.47 BTC), 30D: 0.00036402 / 0.00066329 / 0.00086038 (21912224 shares, 14,534.19 BTC)
thestringpuller: !l m s.mpoe
assbot: Last trade for S.MPOE on MPEX was at 0.00078286 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: maybe you need to bridge two pins together with a diode << someone did not grasp 'solder bridge.' < a no grasped just fine. its common to see two pads on pcb instead of a pins + jumper.
kakobrekla has done a fair bit of soldering 10 or so years ago. mostly on gpus of the time.
kakobrekla: well mostly not by time but by devices modified i guess.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44200 @ 0.00075341 = 33.3007 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform 'rawlsian veil of ignorance.' << first time i hear of this o.O
mircea_popescu: i guess we find jus how ignorant i am or something.
mircea_popescu: who the fuck is rawls anyway.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "Eliezer Shlomo Yudkowsky (born September 11, 1979[citation needed]) is an American blogger, writer, and advocate for friendly artificial intelligence." << lol i guess tardpedia actually informs, for once.
asciilifeform: !s lesswrong
assbot: 19 results for 'lesswrong' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=lesswrong
asciilifeform: ^ mr y's mega-chumpatron
mats_cd03: http://www.newrepublic.com/article/119182/jihadists-buy-islam-dummies-amazon
assbot: Jihadists Buy 'Islam for Dummies' on Amazon | New Republic ... ( http://bit.ly/1zAqrNl )
mats_cd03: also "The Koran for Dummies". top keks
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform wait, what's the connection there ?
mircea_popescu: mats_cd03 allah loves the honest man, neh ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, consider leaving a shlomo comment on the article itself, for readers of teh future.
mircea_popescu: knowledge always benefits from dissemination.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what's the connection << organized abuse of statistical concepts for satanic purposes
mircea_popescu: but by him personally ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: yes him personally. he organized a perverse cult around bayes's theorem, and hypnotized a thousand reasonably-intelligent folks (mathematical, physical, etc. students)
mircea_popescu: wait, you are crediting a 35 yo blogger from san francisco with having single handedly created the pop-bayesian idiocy now making up half of applied math out there ?!
mircea_popescu: dude talk of achievement.
mircea_popescu: the onlyproblem with this theory being that spamfilters predate his adolescence.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ask around. i know, it's difficult to believe. but the man (yes, he was an actual hassid, afaik he was expelled from their number) is a 'natural hitler' or however it is called these days.
mircea_popescu: i do not believe this outrage.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: spam filter - and, aha, bayes lived long ago, likewise. mr y did not invent the moving parts. just stuck the pig head on the pole and convinced various folks to dance.
mircea_popescu: well ok but how do i evaluate how many folks and how much dancing.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: to see 'what' dance, visit their forum, their wiki, put on gas mask. to see how many - ask intel dept. i have not counted them.
mircea_popescu: the ever-loving intel dept i could not survive without actually just slipped me a note,
mircea_popescu: "you are greatly overstating the importance of the site, it's not reddit sized. it's not even digg.com sized, as of today. it's actually smaller than your blog, 5-10k a month sort of affair."
mircea_popescu: so i suppose this is where i backtrack.
mircea_popescu: jurov answered :D
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7782 @ 0.00074942 = 5.832 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: anyway, i guess now i'm stuck doing a rawls is a clueless ignoramus masquerading as a philosopher (if the "american" part didn't give it away by itself), inept enough to present mere circular reasoning as "moral thought"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 5-10k a month sort of affair5-10k a month sort of affair << of maths grad students, though. not homo redditicus. although, to be fair, this is from my personal observations of 5 yrs. or so vintage.
asciilifeform: damn, springs doubling up
mircea_popescu: but... bomo redditicus is us phd students.
mircea_popescu: who did you think was on reddit ?
asciilifeform: it was actual people. at least - then
mircea_popescu: well the advantage to us being two different people is that our data doesn't match.
asciilifeform: as in, folks who can do addition correctly, etc.
mircea_popescu: stop selling reddit short, it's a great empire of intellectual pinnacling.
asciilifeform: eh i've no data here, only personal sense of smell, and it was long ago.
mircea_popescu: shit, people there can even ddos
mircea_popescu: sort-of.
asciilifeform: l0l!
mircea_popescu: it's funny how the history of that thing went. it was about as retarded as lesswrong, originally, a sort of obscure livejournal clone populated by worthless shut-ins (which doesn't mean alkl shut-ins are worthless).
mircea_popescu: then some guy decided to fill it up with child porn, and so it (obviously) took off
mircea_popescu: but ever since, and apparently to its last day, it had an inferiority complex to 4chan
mircea_popescu: so to this day it's still trying to sort-of pretend it's that, /b/ in its glory days, 2005ish
asciilifeform: i have yet to encounter a 'mousetrap' more effective than 'lesswrong' circa 2009 or so - that is, a mechanism for wasting the time of intelligent folks. has to be seen to be believed, really.
mircea_popescu: except you know... minus all the actual things.
mircea_popescu: reddit is cargo /b/ basically.
mircea_popescu: mats_cd03: aaaand s.mpoe is back << apparently o.O
mircea_popescu: !up Gassho
mircea_popescu: is the name in recognition of your many queefs or what.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo: Oh response<< any idea what that's supposed to mean ?
mats_cd03: ive got nothing against jihadis personally
mircea_popescu: i do. what the fuck do they think they are, reddit on steroids ?
mats_cd03: legitimate grievances or not, i don't see a problem with taking up arms in support of wutever they believe
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: what's a 'bme' anyway? << body modification ezine, was a focus for a bunch of weird individuals + some really banging adolescewnt females
mats_cd03: if you're clever enough to win, then you live long enough to see the mess you've created
mats_cd03: if not... you live long enough to see your buddies dragged behind a cart.
mircea_popescu: (women have a very deeply entrenched masochism in them, as you'd expect of machines made to actually carry to term and give birth. the more heavily sexed ones often have trouble managing it until their late 30s)
asciilifeform: jihadis >> http://media.boreme.com/post_media/2005/kermit-visits-doctor.jpg << creatures of usg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/11pBNYe )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nah, i believe their sustenance is genuine.
mircea_popescu: *: asciilifeform always wondered, in that spirit, if there exist folks with 'useful' tattoos, e.g., one that turns you into a 'human slide rule' <<< yes. in russian prisons.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform jihad long predates the invention of america, let alone the creation of the usg.
asciilifeform: jihad - yes; jihad (TM) - usg
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo ".@rabite I think I liked you better as a Christian, could you go back to the Jesus stuff please" lol
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and that's about as relevant to the people in the field as the "bitcoin (tm)" "vessenes scam foundation" are relevant to bitcoin.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: distinction is not unimportant, no? flies-cutlets separation.
mircea_popescu: distinction IS unimportant, inasmuch as you're not interested in either flies or rotten meat.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: applying statistical (or otherwise) counterfactuals to an actual reality is a mistake of the same elementary scope as division by zero, or direct conversion of metres to grams - but for some reason which entirely escapes me, this is not obvious to people << the reason may escape you but is obvious.
mircea_popescu: take global warming. it is EXACTLY that, they created an imaginary reality to replace earth's history, and that imaginary reality now serves... what does it serve ?
mircea_popescu: preexisting policy goals ? DING DING DING the man's a winner! check out the ~coinicidence~ there!
mircea_popescu: it's so statistically improbable :D
mircea_popescu: let's add two and two together here.
mircea_popescu: the first two, "giving poor people money so they're too fat to ferguson" : http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/tlp.html
assbot: The Last Psychiatrist: The Terrible, Awful Truth About Supplemental Security Income ... ( http://bit.ly/11pCX62 )
mircea_popescu: "Do you want riots in the streets? How much does it cost to prevent LA (or the city of your choice) from catching fire? Answer: $600/month/person, plus Medicaid. Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If it's a disease, it's nobody's fault. Yay empiricism.
mircea_popescu: Those who are arguing about the cost of healthcare or think that poor people are lying to get benefits are completely and utterly missing the point of the system. It wants this in the hands of doctors, because it would be toxic to everyone else. Can you imagine your Senator deciding who gets benefits and who doesn't?"
mircea_popescu: now the other two : http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-11-2014#927097
assbot: Logged on 18-11-2014 00:09:10; mircea_popescu: “We have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified dramatic statements, and make little mention of any doubts we may have. Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest. ” ~Stephen Schneider, environmental activist, in _Discover_, Oct. '89
mircea_popescu: so add these two together, what do you get ? obviously the actual goals of the entire "global warming" stuff, especioally if scrubbed of all the crud, would generally be beneficial and are in any case unavoidable.
mircea_popescu: but that's not how it works, because to keep up the semblance of "popular democracy" one is stuck "persuading" the cattle. so all sorts of "justifications" have to be made up.
mircea_popescu: and if they have to be made up... they will be.
mircea_popescu: just like a professor won't have the mp superbity to go into the review meeting hands in pockets and deliver a stern "fuck you, i'm doing you a favor being here, now you prove yourselves to me and then go home."
mircea_popescu: instead, he will present a list of "proofs". of his value, importance and utility. which he knows are bunk. but what's he to do ?
mircea_popescu: governing a herd of idiots who nevertheless think themselves the crown of creation is no easy feat. it is also no feat any thinking man should ever accomplish, for any accomplishment at all, and most mere attempts, are quite morally wrong, and taint something fierce.
mircea_popescu: yet, everyone loves this "i had no choice" and "what would you have me do ? LEAVE ?" thing.
asciilifeform: i voz oonly fulloving urderz!
mircea_popescu: right ? i predict "the dictates of reality" as a concept to make its appearance at the war on terror warcrimes tribunal.
mircea_popescu: "i was following orders111" "who the fuck from ?" "reality!"
mircea_popescu: anyway. in the country where no man may say "do it this way ~becayse i say so~" all sorts of pathologies are bound to develop. because in point of fact a country has some scope for that sort of thing, whether you want to or not. and like in any living organism, once a metabolic pathway is blocked, homeostasis becomes extremely difficult if at all possible. and will take all sorts of crazy to pull off.
asciilifeform: would generally be beneficial and are in any case unavoidable << wai wat ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the us has to get off consumerism. this is not an if.
asciilifeform: or was that simply re: collapse? in which case, aye
mircea_popescu: there are many decades, century+ worth of bad decisions baked in that will have to be unwound.
mircea_popescu: it worked before people travelled, but your average usian thatever visited europe now knows that the sprawl is fucking insane AND not needed.
asciilifeform: the hunchback will straighten in his grave.
mircea_popescu: but meanwhile, the hunchback is trying to straighten "through science".
mircea_popescu: can you blame him ? perhaps. can you mock him ? definitely. will he stop tho ?
asciilifeform: aha. will keep going until, well, done.
mircea_popescu: right. so yeah, the worst thing about a friend getting cancer is that point where they lose it
mircea_popescu: and start "really believing" in quack cures.
mircea_popescu: rare is the man that actually won't.
asciilifeform: i bet that modern folks will discover, to some surprise, how many were subscribed to the 'last bullet health & pension insurance co.'
mircea_popescu: not even so much surprise, where is that song
mircea_popescu: who was it, baez had a song about how [the wife] has opened the last can of baked beans
thestringpuller: mats_cd03: sounds similar to the line from The Dark Knight. "Live long enough to become the villian"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: that is, 'slavery is bad mmkay because what if you were a slave' << lol i remember an encounter with this in kindergarten. substitute whoever attacked some longstanding privilege of mine that i meanwhile forgot with the totally unexpected "can't do that, because what if all the other kids want it too ?"
mircea_popescu: it took me a coupla passes until it sunk in that the woman actually is seriously presenting this as some sort of an argument,
mircea_popescu: out of which she even has like, expectations, not to mention thinks it victorious in principle and afore the fact, like calling the name of god or something.
mircea_popescu: i still can't shake the same bemused, "wait, did the monkey srsly just try to shoot me with a stick" disbelief whenever confronted with it, to this day.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i suspect precisely this, almost to a word, is a formative experience for every boy with half a brain. sorta like if adult tells boy that sky is same colour as grass
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: and the rawlsian lottery is presumed to include only them <<< ahhh, excellent point re the "inner light" stuff. it wasn't directly apparent,
mircea_popescu: but in fact, considering pedigrees, that's exactly what the antecessor of this was huh.
mircea_popescu: puritards, i swear... they're worse than the catholics.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i've been trying to pinpoint the pathology for a while now. this so far is the best hypothesis i know.
mircea_popescu: i'm sold.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HASH] 1866 @ 0.00070732 = 1.3199 BTC [-] {4}
thestringpuller: !t amhash1
assbot: The eagle never lost so much time as when he submitted to learn from the crow.
thestringpuller: !t h amhash1
assbot: [HAVELOCK:AMHASH1] 1D: 0.00119143 / 0.00120124 / 0.00120492 (4271 shares, 5.13050131 BTC), 7D: 0.00115001 / 0.00118762 / 0.00121112 (48372 shares, 57.44779008 BTC), 30D: 0.00115001 / 0.00124483 / 0.00135000 (592106 shares, 737.07110440 BTC)
thestringpuller: !t h amhash2
assbot: You cannot stop the clouds by the building of a ship.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo: Well this whole Jesus thing has kind of been a huge bummer for Western civilization ever since the Romans started taking it seriously <<< it happened as the very complex roman religions were brought closer to the understanding of teh plebs.
cazalla: pete's article - http://qntra.net/2014/11/vessenes-bitcoin-foundation-publishes-telling-survey-results/
assbot: Vessenes' Bitcoin Foundation Publishes Telling Survey Results. | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/11hfyE9 )
thestringpuller: and they complained about my footnotes. (jus' sayin')
cazalla: thestringpuller, they? one or two people!
thestringpuller: the royal "they"
thestringpuller: or whatever
cazalla: well, you know, some people's footnotes are longer than the article itself
mircea_popescu: cazalla best women = longer legs than torso.
thestringpuller: so they can kick you more easily?
mircea_popescu: well, you.
punkman: what woman has longer torso than legs anyway
thestringpuller: s/woman/human
mircea_popescu: sjws
mircea_popescu: short jorso warriors!
mircea_popescu: by the way, any transhumanists of the future reading this, secretly in their secret coven while being grieviously oppressed by an unrelentingly ignorant society :
mircea_popescu: i propose euman as the term. it's different from human in that it's BETTER!
mircea_popescu: whereas to the counterparty, those oppressing them : you could probably switch to "man and homan".
thestringpuller: who you pronounce that?
mircea_popescu: like ho meets man.
thestringpuller: E-ooh-maan?
thestringpuller: how*
mircea_popescu: no, /hɒːmən/
thestringpuller: i see!
mircea_popescu: !up poulos
cazalla: fucking lol, that shapiro chick favourited the qntra article on her hardware wallet
mircea_popescu: no, /hoːmən/ actually, my bad. ɒː is the other one.
mircea_popescu: cazalla she might know more than you about how to deal with such things
mircea_popescu: "Today EFF is pleased to announce Let’s Encrypt, a new certificate authority (CA) initiative that we have put together with Mozilla, Cisco, Akamai, IdenTrust, and researchers at the University of Michigan that aims to clear the remaining roadblocks to transition the Web from HTTP to HTTPS."
mircea_popescu: holy shit...
cazalla: or she didn't actually read the article
mircea_popescu: "The need to obtain, install, and manage certificates from that bureaucracy is the largest reason that sites keep using HTTP instead of HTTPS. " <<< most common != largest.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-11-2014#927662☝︎
assbot: Logged on 18-11-2014 15:42:20; asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: RIP EFF.
mircea_popescu: the common cold is the most common disease. it is not the "largest" nor the most important disease.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah it's where i got it from.
mircea_popescu: cazalla quite :)
mircea_popescu: under the umbrella of the Ghee Kung Tong, identified by the feds as a de facto Chinese mafia organization. Chow begs to differ: “My organization is not what they call a secret society,” he says. “People misunderstand—it’s not a secret. It’s a private self-help group, helping people, our people. It’s about loyalty, trust, honor. As the chairman, it’s my job to help people.”
mircea_popescu: lmao let's not read history with shrimpboy.
mircea_popescu: da fuck is this, 1914 ?!
cazalla: there is nothing worse than having a beautiful, sunny morning tainted by a complaining woman!
cazalla: A guy told me one time.. do not let yourself get attached to anything you are not willing to walk out on in 30 seconds flat if you feel the heat around the corner.. why didn't i listen lol
nubbins`: cazalla sounds like the honeymoon's over
cazalla: nubbins`, could be worse, for example, forced to get up at predetermined time 5 days a week only to come home to same woman
nubbins`: the first half of that sounds like an unfettered nightmare
nubbins`: i guess the coming home part depends on how good you are at making important life decisions ;p
asciilifeform: cazalla: favourited the qntra article << how does that work ?
cazalla: asciilifeform, my comment assumes reader has knowledge of twitter :P
asciilifeform: cazalla: i must confess that it remains mostly unknown to me.
cazalla: asciilifeform, it's their version of Facebook's Like
asciilifeform: cazalla: aha. guessed that some sort of proprietary bookmark crud was involved.
undata: cazalla: it's awesome; they acknowledge they rely on you by complaining and deny it in the same breath
undata: responding to earlier laments
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1037 @ 0.00119143 = 1.2355 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1000 @ 0.00119104 = 1.191 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4668 @ 0.00073718 = 3.4412 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 25 @ 0.09 = 2.25 BTC [-] {2}
cazalla: http://qntra.net/2014/11/jim-robinson-tim-draper-confirmed-bidders-on-next-usms-bitcoin-auction/
assbot: Jim Robinson, Tim Draper Confirmed Bidders On Next USMS Bitcoin Auction | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1ykR73J )
cazalla: undata, they? i only have one, not as lucky as some
cazalla: !up PBMining
PBMining: hello everyone, is anyone interested in Bitcoin cloud mining? we offer 5 year contracts at 0.0013 BTC / GHs, no maintenance fees
cazalla: ! PBMining
cazalla: !down PBMining
cazalla: i didn't up you knowing you were going to promote that shit
dub: lol
asciilifeform: it happened as the very complex roman religions were brought closer to the understanding of teh plebs << goldsmith's 'great u-turn' had a superb if very compact intro to this process: http://www.edwardgoldsmith.org/28
assbot: The fall of the Roman Empire · Edward Goldsmith ... ( http://bit.ly/1tb3bjo )
asciilifeform: 'However, their voluntary exile was short-lived. This structureless mass of people was incapable of creating a city on the model of that which they had known. Consequently they returned to Rome and after many struggles established themselves as citizens of the Republic. If they were eventually enfranchised, it was that they had become culturally absorbed into Roman society, but for this to be possible the latte
asciilifeform: r had to undergo considerable modifications. It could, in fact, no longer remain a tribal city.'
asciilifeform: #bitcoin-wizards << lol! usg has own #b-a now! 'with hookers, and blackjack!'
asciilifeform: it is certainly worth reading the total log.
asciilifeform: many things to be learned, though probably not what the participants intended.
asciilifeform: such as, it turns out that shitgnomes are rather enamoured of 'mathematically provable security!!111!'
asciilifeform: which should suggest something to folks who are still 'on the fence' re: the concept.
asciilifeform: and other gems:
asciilifeform: 'hearn: well i assumed that too when the docs first leaked last year. i kept waiting for the slide shows about the compromised CA's.
asciilifeform: 6:36 AM apparently either they don't exist or the journalists who were able to report on so much else somehow missed it
asciilifeform: 6:36 AM it's rather surprising and counter-intuitive but it appears that (for now) the system is working as designed. or if there are compromises, they're so rare that they aren't worthy of mention in the NSA docs.'
asciilifeform: ( https://botbot.me/freenode/bitcoin-wizards/2014-10-01/?tz=America/Havana )
assbot: Logs for #bitcoin-wizards | BotBot.me [o__o] ... ( http://bit.ly/1p07UZV )
asciilifeform: ever lift a stone in a garden and discover a hundred species crawling ?
asciilifeform: that there's - this.
mats_cd03: such pregnant pauses, asciilifeform
mats_cd03: you have potential for the stage my man
asciilifeform: 'petertodd jrayhawk: it's interesting how more than one tor dev I've spoken too firmly believes Werner Koch - gnupg maintainer - is a NSA/BND plant with the goal of ensuring gnupg remains unusable (e.g. strong opposition to any attempt to make it into a library)'
asciilifeform: (nov. 10)