log☇︎
77100+ entries in 0.601s
a111: Logged on 2016-12-21 21:30 mod6: I think alf should take his V much further, and mine can fall into dust bin.
asciilifeform: i had 0 part in it
ben_vulpes: the other thing is separate and not precisely a problem, i mean to say.
mod6: <+ben_vulpes> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-21#1587516 << actually /i/ found it, and only when for personal lols i told it to do a thing that it shouldn't have << ah, right. ☝︎
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-21#1587516 << actually /i/ found it, and only when for personal lols i told it to do a thing that it shouldn't have ☝︎
trinque: again the null set predicates thing causes huge commotion. I am honestly (and without veiled jabs) fascinated.
mod6: i feel like this thing is a moving target.
mod6: no hard feelings. i said i could do this pretty easily.
mod6: or if I have bad signatures, then it'll complain as well.
mod6: if i have a bunch of seals in my .seals dir from a guy named 'alf' that isn't in my wot, then V will complain.
mod6: i have a subroutine
mod6: but i encourage you all to experiment with this.
mod6: anyway, i cna't talk atm
phf: mod6: i think there's more infrastructure around V than there's V use, which leaves a lot of issues unexplored. for example there were mentions that V had a binary problem, but a serious discussion only happened recently, with no satisfactory solution. i think you were attempting to solve an important problem: how to let people outside of tmsr figure out build process without 6 months of log (seems like even more now), but i suspect
mod6: no seriously, i should have never been adacious enough to think that I could make that thing work.
mod6: which basically means to me, either no one understands "vtronics" or no one who did ever audited the thing. and i'm clearly not qualified and shouldn't have written the fucking thing int he first place. ☟︎
mod6: you know, i'd like to. but my thing has been around for waaay to long for no one to have noticed a huge flaw.
mod6: I think alf should take his V much further, and mine can fall into dust bin. ☟︎
mod6: I'm pretty sure i am a bozo.
asciilifeform: what archaeologists will say to this, i have nfi.
asciilifeform: i can see mircea_popescu's 'this is a car with 4 brake pedals, wtf is wrong with you' argument.
mircea_popescu: in all honestly if i were archeologist and discovering this i'd flip the bozo bit on this "tmsr" bs for this here reason.
trinque: or we're afraid of patch? if we want an actual patch utility that only deals in single byte characters and hashes, I will write it.
trinque: I have no idea how we get from "gnu cat is shit because they added compromises throughout the thing's life" to "we will allow ourselves this same sin" because what, we're holier, can afford it ?
asciilifeform: mod6: as i understand, trinque and mircea_popescu were taking the position that 'it is dangerous and useless to have an off switch for signature check'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and when i provide you with a toilet, you'll stop pissing in the bath tub ?
asciilifeform: until then, i use the wild knob every day.
trinque: I said fix patch.
mod6: i don't have time right now. i'll come back later for this.
mod6: <+trinque> thing sounds like it needs to be cleaved into vpatch and v which calls vpatch << i'm not sure i follow here...
mod6: I think a flag takes care of this, exactly how alf's original v worked.
mod6: I don't think it is reasonable to sign every thing I want to test.
mod6: I press them very often, infact.
mircea_popescu: i dunno where this truism that "people like people" comes from, but it is spectacularily resilient in the face of unequivocal quashing irl. NOBODY, past the age of about 5 or so, likes almost anybody else to even the degree of toleration, let alone actually seeking them out. not even fucking women, hence the prostitute's job (not to fuck - but to leave after!)
BingoBoingo: <trinque> "not me but christ through me" even worse, I'd think, with apologies to danielpbarron. "I submit myself fully to the god of purpose." << Step 3!
mircea_popescu: what can i tell you.
trinque: yeah, I don't suppose there's a solution in posing the question.
mircea_popescu: so far i'm opting out of the entire "systematic slavery" thing ; it is a private not public matter entirely opaque to they-who-aren-t-me, which makes me-as-slaveholder rather divine in nature.
mircea_popescu: i have nfi.
asciilifeform: believe or not -- i have this problem with various people routinely.
asciilifeform: actually i knew that it exists, but had nfi that could go to a store and BUY
mircea_popescu: (srsly, i sat there and went holy shit this is so obvious wtf is wrong with us.)
mircea_popescu: i dunno alfie. lava - hot. behind it - glass. doesn't seem more of a leap than what is proposed for the original "cooking meat" discovery, which supposedly is why we're even here.
trinque: I will not stumble drunkenly into it, but it'd seem one would at least require input that can be contorted into the item.
mircea_popescu: adn so on and so forth. i doubt much conclusion can be drawn from this absence.
mircea_popescu: of course not ; which is why i'm putting it here.
mircea_popescu: and i wouldn't even think it fair to say that the other two thirds are dumber or something.
mircea_popescu: i mean heck - they had atomic theory and didn't even build cyclotron
asciilifeform: y'know, the 'hey d00dz i have steam engine' 'lol, why would anyone want this, we have slaves'
asciilifeform: it wasn't simply 'they died', their approach to thought, as i pointed out in the start of this thread, is alive and well, 'allah farted and moves electron'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i met two kinds of women in this life ; the kind that'd hang out with anyone just as long as they didn't go to jail/starve/whatever ; and the kind that'd hang out with me if it meant underground.
mircea_popescu: and sure, the greek style of deductive logic, from the all downwards lost in the field to the latin method of inductive "from the parts is made the ballista". i have no objections, but also can't pretend the alternative never existed.
mircea_popescu: well i was discussing a quote.
mircea_popescu: there you go - i haven't translated, but at least discussion allowed us to build a sufficient basis so at least a meaningful summary could be devised.
asciilifeform: i can picture one as a nonphysical boojum, like the imaginary solution to a quadratic
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i;m not sure you grasp the point here. read it again!
asciilifeform: 'aristotle: your postulates are just as circular!' 'asciilifeform: i made a working diode from things i dug up' 'aristotle: you just got lucky' ☟︎
asciilifeform: i'm quite certain that he would.
asciilifeform: i in particular would like to understand the greeks. but every time i go full bore and try, i end up with 'the arbitrary crapola i gotta load into my head, to properly sink into this text, is quite equally loathesome to, e.g., 'dialectic materialism', or obummercare, or american patent law, etc.'
asciilifeform: then i ask for coherent picture of subj in some current living language -- and no dice
mircea_popescu: i didn't say that. i said - that dutch's writing is interesting as of dutch ; not much as of aristotle.
mircea_popescu: because no, words don't "have meanings". your meanings for ANY WORD are a function of ALL THE OTHER WORDS YOU KNOW. which is why my definitions regularily blow out english dictionaries, wikipedia and other sources of "wisdom" out of the water - i know more words, and in this knowledge i know all the words i know ~better~. infinitely and irreproducibly so. ☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: i hasn't the patience to go into detail as to echonton eisin & friends. not aristotle's fault.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform to be precise : i can't turn the greek string into an english string for you for the same reason you can't turn trb into lisp code for me. "but alf, it compiles! a lisp version must exist!" hurr. i don't propose "because you can't take object code and make me lisp source it follows no c sources existed" do i ?
mircea_popescu: i can't.
asciilifeform: i don't even see this as specifically greek - it is standard 'blub effect', modern plankton thinks 'maths is what i learned in kindergarten', negative space -- universal
mircea_popescu: i'd rather go far because if i stay close it looks too much like genuine science.
mircea_popescu: so, yes : science, and i don't here mean, globalwarmism or pseudoevolutionism or lulzgametheory or such ; but - physics. astronomy, things of serious. these didn't develop methodically, in history, but exactly through a process of "try random batshit and it sometimes works".
trinque: I'd say we like suffering, and it can get out of hand.
mircea_popescu: (and if you're wondering - the hallucinatory perception of the other known objectively as "puppy love" is precisely an implementation of this principle. as it exists in all cultures [that i'm familiar with] it seems likely to be the definitionally human trait. man is the beast who, when confronted with a shortfall, dreams up a compensation.)
mircea_popescu: but in any case - alienation and self-realization stand in an inexact opposition - if for no other reason then because derealisation often appears as a viable alternative self-realisation. "i am a pretty special snowball" is exactly the self-realised derealized individual, satisfied with his own self image in a wholly imagined world. while by definition maximally alienated ; he also is maximally self-realized.
mircea_popescu: evidently there's some expectation somewhere that the batshit insane terms of the empire will be taken at face value. by someone, somewhere. i have nfi.
trinque: "not me but christ through me" even worse, I'd think, with apologies to danielpbarron. "I submit myself fully to the god of purpose."
a111: Logged on 2015-08-23 05:06 trinque: I demand for this to never have happened at once!
mircea_popescu: ah. it is a failure mode ; the feedback is perceived by the i-subject as dolorous, and if there's too much of it the only way to rescue the ideology is to sever the feedback.
trinque: "do I fuck for ideology?" "yeah, sure, whatever."
mircea_popescu: could you say "whenever someone clicks on some grass to make a bundle and process it into coarse frangible thread - they are gambling with the proceeds of the actual irl farmer and miner, and soldier." ? sure. does it actually say anything however ? i dun see what.
mircea_popescu: (and yes farming is entirely chumpatronics, of the worst ilk. as dean martin once said, "my old man used to gamble that he'd get rain. i figure if a man's gonna gamble, might as well eschew plowing."
mircea_popescu: yeah ; but i was allowing his loose coupling maybe something comes of it.
mircea_popescu: while alienation is a fact of life ; i scarcely see the merit in building it in deliberately ffs.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, but see the fundamental problem with this ? why should i wish to be far away from my life's work ? what am i, some sort of celenterate ?
pete_dushenski: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/uGZQFEhpmzE/maxresdefault.jpg << prototypical chumpatron
mircea_popescu: that's, i suppose, the actual point here : that while building chumpatrons ~is~ feasible ; and in many actually encountered circumstances it ~is~ productive ; nevertheless a chumpatron is not a tank. not merely by coincidence of design, like a spoon is not a fork, but could pass for a fork in a bind. a chumpatron is not a tank fundamentally, nor could ever be a tank of any kind to any degree, much like a stove can't cool your
mircea_popescu: i was amused at what the us state dept imagines average romanian may believe.
asciilifeform: i always parsed the aol thing as, from lizard pov, 'thinking folks are gettin' uppity, let's ddos'em'
mircea_popescu: ajajaja wait wait, i could hijack any bot loading trilema via curl ?
mircea_popescu: i'd take not being dumb over not being poor.
mircea_popescu: but it is CERTAINLY unfair that he's fucking dumbs as rocks and i am not.
mircea_popescu: it's maybe unfair that whoever is running that "shop" doesn't have as much money as i do. it is maybe unfair that whoever is running that "shop" didn't go to as good a school, or have as good parents, or as alf points out, didn't have as well housed a library at home. fine.
ben_vulpes: i had a full transmission swap done on the civic for less
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: mostly because airport is further from maison than offices and properties i frequent.
pete_dushenski: on a plane there's (ideally) no wifi, no one talking to you, just the pen and the page. i miss traveling as much as i did the last decade as much as anything for the rarefied air free from distraction.
pete_dushenski: but ya, i'll move on to next car at next btc price level, or next kid, or next spring, or something.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: I'm just trying to help you continue the natural order of things and move on to next car
asciilifeform: well yes. civilized folk have glass. and i've never seen it since moving to monkeystan.
mircea_popescu: i saw such. not everyone's fond of the dust.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: I don't think you know how wood is marketed. There SPF or "Spruce, Pine, Fir" for the ones that suck because the bulk of particular kinds of softwoods all suck in the same ways. Then you get outlifers which are also lumped together like Douglas Fir and Larch or the 3-ish species of Southern yellow pine.
mircea_popescu: eh, maybe if i had boys. bu for girls no metal necessary.
mircea_popescu: i knew cedar to make great boats ; but cedar also makes great beating sticks!
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: pls to describe this war on softwood lumber? Does this mean I should build new bookshelves sooner instead of later?