log☇︎
41900+ entries in 0.285s
asciilifeform: nobody in my lifetime will make a 'concepts v.'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: observe that i did not ask for a v that deals in ~concepts~, only mechanisms.
asciilifeform: neither 'is' the other. just as drawing of kalash is not a kalash, you cannot fire it. and conversely, physical, firable kalash is not the drawing, the parts are wherever they are in the tolerance range, to make more from the 1 example you will have to redraw the drawing and determine the tolerances.
mircea_popescu: note if you will that "bubblesort", while a fully defined symbol, does not actually denote any specific implementation as such.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, as a matter of course, your protocol must work in all cases it purports to cover or it isn't.
mircea_popescu: but the sheer insanity to attempt a protocol built on a knowledge that it dun work in the general case, but in some particulars. what is this, building unix ?!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this planet ; the planet where men have tried for 50 centuries to tell the woman "make me a son, and one that's not idiotic, and not too expensive" and she brought whatever shrubbery she brought.
mircea_popescu: and in particular cases, you can make a note to self.
asciilifeform pictures mircea_popescu posting from something like a beehive , on distant world
mircea_popescu: change, yes. just not really know who made a particular genesis, is all.
asciilifeform: what i want is more modest thing -- to know who made a particular change. in all cases.
asciilifeform: the idea is to expunge anyone who so much as shows a hint of 'i merely work here', as an unreliable element.
mircea_popescu: how about this "mechanical borrowing" system you proposes ACTUALLY weakens responsibility, because the 15, instead of taking seriously their true deed, which IS in fact authorship-indistinguishable, rather aim to hide behind a claim of "hey, we merely work here, signing signatures" a sort of "well i really wanted to X and the only part Y available was Koch's so don't blame me"
asciilifeform: one's a sig, 15 are sigs of a sig.
mircea_popescu: this is a hallucinated counterworld.
mircea_popescu: as a subpoint, it is true copy/pasteism makes muddled "authorship" socially acceptable, and this is a great thing, and the perfect bullet to kill usg."intellectual property" with ; but it does NOT make responsibility any weaker, and thereby feeds no rats.
mircea_popescu: the only true knowledge of the machine's view is the binary. but you are not interested in that, you are interested in intension and a particular sort of meaning,
asciilifeform: disasms are actually a bitch to diff.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform for one thing, v is a structured pile of signed tars.
asciilifeform: i'd like to revisit upstack , http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-18#1772421 << this is somewhat of a misconception. asciilifeform did not salivate over a 'programmer's paradise' when wrote v. on the contrary. v , as he pictured it, is a weapon of rodenticidal war. specifically to ferret out and neutralize not only the compromised people, but the politically unreliable and the dubious of whatever type. hence the focus on attribution, and ☝︎
mircea_popescu: it happens A LOT more often than you count.
mircea_popescu: but this happens all the fucking time right here, too! take the... well i can't fucking find it now, but there's a line in the log where phf goes "hey, your trying to do the mp rant comes out short, you;'re not mp". why the fuck not! had all the bits!!1
asciilifeform: afaik the 'idiot comes up with worthwhile item by accident' is a wholly imaginary problem. never seems to actually happen.
mircea_popescu: if i say it -- it's a thing. if not.. hurr.
asciilifeform: re earlier item -- if i want to demonstrate that 'alf's exceptional exsudator' consists of diana_coman's magic prime number maker, all 100,000 ln of it verbatim, plus 5 ln of asciilifeform's , this is now a proposition that has to be proven manually. whereas theoretically it is a mechanically resolvable q.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-18 20:58 mircea_popescu: consider concretely the case of eucrypt's keccak. diana_coman is writing it as a direct derivation off genesis, meaning on extant v impls if one wanted to import it they could import JUST it, without the rest of eucrypt (it'll be pulled in later through the usual procedure in eucrypt itself). superficially this may seem like it encourages phf to go "o i know, i'll just link keccak patch into my codebase rather than regring (i
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there can't be such a wonderous protocol. in no small part because the PRINCIPAL FUNCTION of the human hand is http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-10#1768461 ☝︎
asciilifeform: eyeball-powered diff, when there is a mechanical one, is nuttery
a111: Logged on 2018-01-18 20:53 mircea_popescu: nothing prevents you from saying "this is the genesis of apeloyee's fantastical funicular, it consists of a cog i stole from alf's exceptional exsudator, some other bits i wrote myself and various parts i forgot where i stole" ; but something QUITE fundamental prevents you from writing down "include #fucksticks" and to have a helpful paperclip pop out of nowhere in your emacs guts and declare "this so far looks like you're pu
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-18#1772477 << in ideal vtron, the 'and i stole x from a, y from b...' is protocolic, rather than promisetronic. i.e. abolition of eyeball-powered diff. ☝︎
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-18#1772453 << this has been a regular thing since at least '14 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-18 20:58 mircea_popescu: the problem is that later on, eucrypt's smg_keccak will be pulled into the main to be used for purposes ; if EVEN LATER it gets a patch, phf will then not actually have a way to seamlessly "get just the patch", he will have to regrind at that time anyway.
mircea_popescu: ie, this "independent parts in an automatic fashion" is a hope impossible in practice. the only way he can have it is if HE reads it, as it is found wherever it is found (eucrypt as it happens here), and then HE puts it in, as a regrind, ie, yes, "de novo" item.
mircea_popescu: the problem is that later on, eucrypt's smg_keccak will be pulled into the main to be used for purposes ; if EVEN LATER it gets a patch, phf will then not actually have a way to seamlessly "get just the patch", he will have to regrind at that time anyway. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: consider concretely the case of eucrypt's keccak. diana_coman is writing it as a direct derivation off genesis, meaning on extant v impls if one wanted to import it they could import JUST it, without the rest of eucrypt (it'll be pulled in later through the usual procedure in eucrypt itself). superficially this may seem like it encourages phf to go "o i know, i'll just link keccak patch into my codebase rather than regring (i ☟︎
mircea_popescu: nothing prevents you from saying "this is the genesis of apeloyee's fantastical funicular, it consists of a cog i stole from alf's exceptional exsudator, some other bits i wrote myself and various parts i forgot where i stole" ; but something QUITE fundamental prevents you from writing down "include #fucksticks" and to have a helpful paperclip pop out of nowhere in your emacs guts and declare "this so far looks like you're pu ☟︎
mircea_popescu: yeah, looks like a killer.
mircea_popescu: mod6 the magic string diff uses is "+++ " ie three plusses AND A SPACE
mod6: mircea_popescu: also, fwiw, we might need to adjust our "NO '--- ' or '+++ ' to begin a line in a vpatch to "NO '-- ' or '++ '". There was a vpatch in development where my vtron choked on a line being added into a source file that began with '++', and with the diff '+', became '+++'. My vtron correctly choked here. But maybe a bit of an adjustment to the rule?
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> if anyone is wondering, alf lives in a sausage plant. there's lots of meat. << been wondering if I should move in with him, or take bets on when he gets scurvy
mircea_popescu: if anyone is wondering, alf lives in a sausage plant. there's lots of meat.
shinohai: asciilifeform would construct a death-ray and obliterate him from afar.
phf: that would be quite a twist
mircea_popescu: (but since we're on it -- the enduring interest in obfuscated-c is strictly this, "let us try and write a novel in orthogonal language ; this should be done in c because it's very much not orthogonal". became a self-recursing joke, that the practitioners don't even properly understand, just sorta-feel. BECAUSE they talk about it in natural languages.)
mircea_popescu: and all this goes right into that older thread of ambiguity, orthogonality and language -- you can never make a language that's orthogonal and ~useful~ in the natural sense. let alone "that anyone'd want to use". ☟︎
mircea_popescu: you could not have written such a tagging mechanism as it'd have permitted a machine to recognize the substance of what you were saying when discussing "pointers" which weren't.
mircea_popescu: and this identity is also fluent, because different things are the same thing, such as no further than earlier the "you really want a lisp stack". this recognition is only there because of personal knowledge, and absent otherwise.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-17 19:34 apeloyee: files are NOT INDEPENDENT. despite CVS and v pretending they are. this is a problem. you could have required some form of cryptographic commitment to either the tree state or even the antedecent patches themselves, but didn't
asciilifeform: worse, was thinking of very different ( and probably unsolvable ) problem ( 'how to give arbitrarily small pieces of code, a perma-history' )
phf: never mind then! i gotta figure out how to do the whole "file moved part" anyway, and i don't need a hashing function yet. i'm using a sha512 implementation from busybox
mircea_popescu: a damn, seems i shot too quickly. sorry phf
mircea_popescu: diana_coman ah, is it a two part item then ?
phf: aye, i'll marry keccak to vdiff today or tomorrow to get a poc out.
asciilifeform: i got a megatonne of those . ( e.g. unrolled comba )
mircea_popescu: so write it as a side point and see.
asciilifeform: it's a variant. not currently convinced that it is The Right Thing.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-17 18:27 asciilifeform: speaking of which, could even have a stackmachine with circular ring for a stack.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-17#1771869 << thinking about this, it seems that both a) a re-implementation of the lisp memory model is unavoidable for any serious purpose and b) the place where the rewrite will start is the stack ; are true. ☝︎
asciilifeform: ada working in normal mode typically won't even let you take a pointer of an object on the stack.
mircea_popescu: once you use "traditional" pointers, your "stack" is a heap.
mircea_popescu: ah you don't actually mean to use pointers, just a lisp-style memory emulator for the stack itself
mircea_popescu: stack as linked list has a notion of next item on stack, yes ?
BingoBoingo: Apparently one can have fun in Punta Del Este with zero spanish provided they have a Trump budget, but it is a serious WTFism.
BingoBoingo: Poor girl is just torturing herself waiting for him to make a move.
BingoBoingo: ^ and asciilifeform before you ask, even if he is a spy he can't effectively because the girl he can't talk too is too smitten.
shinohai: trinque: I had the same issue with Mexicans. A little death metal solved it.
trinque has venezuelans living directly below. there was a long battle over whether THOOM THOOM THOOM was music
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It's just a step
asciilifeform: funnily enuff this is maybe the 5th or 6th trilema piece in a row that asciilifeform finished eating just prior to deedbot displaying
mircea_popescu rests easy in the knowledge he's penned the most outrageous item ever written in english, by such a margin as to permanently defy competition
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/how-to-satisfyingly-have-sex-with-a-girl-under-12/ << Trilema - How to satisfyingly have sex with a girl under 12
a111: Logged on 2016-11-18 15:15 mircea_popescu: gotta kyc in case the fat tard over at the us park administration gets tired of asking for special booth at burning man and wants to peruse pics of subtards licking fish through a screen of milk, gotta have the pics ready for him!!11
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes dja happen to have a link to the original case of http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-18#1569630 ? iirc you reported it, maybe 2014s ☝︎
shinohai: "A promise from the SCAM coin team: We won't sleep until SCAM coin has been successfully listed on at least one shitty exchange." <<< Truth in advertising now I guess.
asciilifeform: 'The United States federal government has paid approximately half a million dollars to a private corporation to help various agencies conduct surveillance on the Bitcoin blockchain' << pretty lulzy, that's, e.g., 3 janitors, 2 clerks, 1 intern, for 1yr ☟︎
ave1: http://ave1.org/2018/building-gnat-on-musl-now-with-a-signature/ script to build GNAT, now with signature and the result can compile ch1
a111: Logged on 2018-01-17 15:50 apeloyee: well, ideally it would have a "No_Out_Arguments_Aliasing" restriction which would insert runtime checks
a111: Logged on 2018-01-17 15:39 apeloyee: does gnat provide a facility to check aliasing at runtime?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-17#1771717 << this is a great win, i'm glad he stuck with it. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-17 15:30 asciilifeform: has apeloyee found a specific instance where it can be made to eggog ? or is this a hypothetical 'once less clueful people start changing things' observation ?
asciilifeform: a+++ trololol
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform gotta have a foundation like tits gotta have a boar.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-17 13:09 esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-16#1771055 << My thought was to scrap the current client in favor of a customized one, with eucrypt protocol as the backbone. Is this 1. not what you want, or 2. a bad idea?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-17#1771642 << i don't see a problem with it necessarily, but it's not clear what may hide under rock #2. try and see i guess ? ☝︎
mircea_popescu: "Cardano is a decentralised public blockchain and cryptocurrency project and is fully open source. Cardano is developing a smart contract platform which seeks to deliver more advanced features than any protocol previously developed. It is the first blockchain platform to evolve out of a scientific philosophy and a research-first driven approach. Thedevelopment team consists of a large global collective of expert engineers and
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-17#1771636 << i have nfi what a binace is and i see no problem with random numbers fiatists assign to bitcoin fluctuating ~randomly. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-05-16 22:10 asciilifeform: unrelatedly, 'finite precision number systems and arithmetic' (kornerup & matula, cambridge press) is mega-b00k, the only one i've found on subj that is NOT a mere plagiarism of knuth, has useful algos for e.g. carry-free ops, hardwarizations
asciilifeform: i have a similar item , http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-16#1657241 , it proved to be of very, very limited help for ffa , the constraint of the pc arch limits the use of fancy adders etc ☝︎
amberglint: asciilifeform: I have a pdf somewhere, a quick look didn't notice anything Ivory-specific
asciilifeform: the demo chapter seems to have a very, very detailed discussion of machine arithmetic.
asciilifeform: aha. mircea_popescu also at one time was a maths man. ☟︎
asciilifeform: but iirc he existed as a 'fromloper' prev.
asciilifeform: he's a very clever maths d00d. logs in every other week or so, nitpicks re fine points of ffa.
amberglint: I was reading the logs for a while, thought about joining you earlier but felt a bit intimidated to be honest
amberglint: I'm a software engineer, live in Russia
asciilifeform: amberglint: want to say a bit re where you came from, how you found asciilifeform's www, etc ?
asciilifeform: nope. phf afaik has the 1 and only mechanically-correct vtron. mod6 has a prototype of the 2nd.
diana_coman: uh oh, it seems asciilifeform's v misbehaves too: when pressing a leaf that has genesis as antecedent it presses ALSO all other descendants of genesis from what I can tell
asciilifeform: 'John Mallery @jcmallery_cyber 25 Dec 2017 Declinism is a psyop of adversaries...it was spread before during the Vietnam war.' << ahahahaha gold ☟︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-13 21:52 mod6: Lords and Ladies of The Most Serene Republic, I have created a blog post outlining the behavior changes in 99993. Please take a look and consider these changes. Let me know if you have any comments or questions! Thanks in advance. http://www.mod6.net/2018/99993/99993-changes.html