38000+ entries in 0.02s
a111: Logged on 2018-11-04 23:13 mircea_popescu: IF you can't configure your
termina, either get a better one or understand you're at fault for your own pain.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-06 23:07 OriansJ: asciilifeform: no where did I say null
terminated strings; it could be length prefixed strings but support for strings needs
to exist in a human readable bootstrap.
mp_en_viaje: though i suspect
this still doesn't cover it.
mp_en_viaje: we liked specifically
the analogic quality of it.
mp_en_viaje: actually has no clear notion of "reboot", i suppose is
the
true characteristic here, hence
the original virii/tsr's. ~kernel modules, ipso facto.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-06 21:48 asciilifeform:
http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-05#1907021 << 'dos' as
typically discussed here is simply shorthand for 'os
that fits in coupla kB and gets
the fuck out of
the way and speaks only when spoken
to' , roughly
mp_en_viaje: which is precisely what "program
to standards, not
to systems" even means!
mp_en_viaje: goodness is
the only criteria. "users" really don't count for anything. let
them learn.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-06 12:59 OriansJ: Mocky: Don't get stuck on
the idea of Floating point, it is just an example of classes of instructions
that are complex
to implement in hardware
that a proper illegal instruction
trap will allow us
to move between hardware and software with no one else having
to care what we are doing. As we want people programming
to standards not
to systems.
mp_en_viaje:
http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907069 << no, but see, we discovered a significant disconnect here. we DO. NOT. SUPPORT. ANYTHING. fuck
them all.
there's no pseudo-"friendly" postelism contemplated,
there's no incumbent desire or inclination
to "provide" for a vague, imagined "audience"
clamoring somewhere downstream.
☝︎ mp_en_viaje: likbez : any machine
that can simulate itself is
turing-complete.
the word "machine" is meant most abstractly, something as bare-bones as maths people would call "a function" could conceivably qualify. an ~imagined~
tape with a
theoretically defined reading head associated eminently qualifies. and so on.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-06 12:48 OriansJ: Mocky: yes
that was my point; floating point will either exist in hardware or software because of
Turing completeness.
mp_en_viaje: i reallly dislike noun strings, espcially as
the count goes over 3.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-06 12:46 Mocky: and in addition you suggested floating point as software addon.
turing completeness can now be achieved after
the fact!
mp_en_viaje: no particular datastructure is any part of
turing completeness, what
the heck is
this!
a111: Logged on 2019-04-06 12:41 OriansJ: Mocky: floating point support is part of being
turing complete. We can either bitch about how bad it is (Like
the old MIPS engineers) or accept
the reality and figure out a why
that costs us
the least.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-06 12:28 diana_coman: it seems quite surprising
to me
there isn't more interest but
tbf I haven't used local WU ever, would need
to even look it up, lol.
mp_en_viaje: it's arguably a defensive hack in
the era of
the 8 bit byte ; but with 64 bit bytes... gimme a break, what does legacy nonsense buy anyone. no "floats".
a111: Logged on 2019-04-06 01:00 OriansJ: We definitely don't need hardware support for floating point
though (just a set of defined encodings for floating point instructions and a clean exception mechanism which allows an operating system or a library
to implement via software routines)
a111: Logged on 2019-04-06 00:45 OriansJ: I've been exploring
the logs and one
thing you may wish
to know about bootstrapping MIPS is humans writing assembly need only 7 registers (I round up
to 16
to include Stack pointer(s) and Condition register(s) and if my goal was optimize for C compiler performance, I would have gone with 64 registers (architecturally unified between
the Integer unit and
the Floating point unit but leveraging
the
trick of
the DEC Alpha 21264 and
mp_en_viaje: "The system used
to run several central message servers around
the world for redundancy, but in 2017-2018 upgraded
to Amazon Web Services
that provides a geographically-redundant cluster of virtual servers with dynamic load balancers and global content-distribution." ie well ripe.
diana_coman: I wanted
to ask whether Bartholomew went back
to its roots!!
☟︎ mp_en_viaje: depends what you're doijng, you know, if i go
to visit prague for a week i don't
take
the whole menagerie.
diana_coman: it's not hard
to have a lot of luggage, sure;
though I never really regretted having smaller luggage as it were (and I almost always find it
too big,
too much anyway!)
mp_en_viaje: 200kgs for one
thing ; and
then... at a bitcoin a kg or some shit...
a111: Logged on 2019-04-05 23:06 OriansJ: Big Endian instruction and data encoding seem
the most obvious great ideas for simplifying
the
task of bootstrapping (especially in regards
to
troubleshooting)
mp_en_viaje: then again, british also had my business in
the 90s.
they went early & bravely into sad nobody had sadded before.
mp_en_viaje: they used
to have 100% of my euro biz, back when i last was in yurp.
diana_coman: lolz; lufthansa has been going very sad over
the so-many-years really
mp_en_viaje: who
the fuck does business like
this ? besides pichis,
thieves & co ?!
mp_en_viaje: but! c) i show up, explain i got 3 people but ~200kgs of luggage (i'm fucking diana ross over here) and
their idea was
to.... pay for
ticket, after which show up at airport, ~with no carrier guarantee whatsoever~. "pay us so many
thousands
to put yourself in such a spot, we can ask for any moar moneyz we
think of".
☟︎ mp_en_viaje: and
talking of zee germanz : a) lufthansa dun have offices anymore, it only deals
through agents ; b) which charge a fee ON
TOP OF A FEE. because lufthansa not only doesn't operate offices anymore -- it charges anyone who does 16 euros. it's like
they
think
they're a happening nightclub or something, gotta pay a cover
to be allowed
to pay for drinks.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-01 03:10 mircea_popescu: anyone feel like going
to qatar btw ?
a111: Logged on 2019-04-05 23:25 OriansJ: well, I guess a really important question
to ask is at what level of lithography people here actually have
trust? (1
transistor, AND Gate in
TTL, 100 Gate ALU, 1000 Gate ULA, 10000 Gate Asic, .... FPGA, 1B+ gate CPU, etc)
a111: Logged on 2019-02-05 18:46 phf: mircea_popescu: is
the idea
that message like
logotron will render it as just "logotron" in html?
a111: Logged on 2019-04-05 23:12 OriansJ: If one doesn't want
to have a boot rom; one needs either a hardware
tape reader (which writes
tape
to memory on power on and jumps
to address 0
to run it or a
toggle board. A serial bus just moves
the bootstrap
trust issue
to another piece of hardware
a111: Logged on 2019-04-05 22:57 bvt:
to my understanding
there are
two questions: 1. what are
the requirements
to
the architecture 2. what is
the first interim stop after a post-M1 assembler?
a111: Logged on 2019-04-05 22:53 OriansJ: BingoBoingo: I agree POSIX has a great many flaws but
there are some ideas inside of it worth preserving; especially in regards
to bootstrapping.
mp_en_viaje: meanhile in local flavour, /me is having a very credible sasuage, bean, poached eggs on
toast, extra stout guiness breakfast at
this rather coquettish pub, while watching
the waitress
tryina pick up
the maintenance man.
mp_en_viaje: unknown
that'll
then be
travelled by "the many".
the republic's not about
the many, and our committment doesn't stem from or waver with adoption.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-05 22:51 OriansJ: well let me ask it
this way; are you planning
to use a posix subset or a subset which will portable upon posix and other OS bases?
a111: Logged on 2019-04-05 22:45 OriansJ: BingoBoingo: well I guess we need
to discuss short
term vs long
term expectations as
those pieces seem
to be multiple pieces pulling in different directions
a111: Logged on 2019-04-05 22:26 OriansJ: bvt: well
to be honest, an Ada subset would be much easier
to implement
than a C subset;
the problem however is always available contributors.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-05 22:17 OriansJ: So I hear
there is some interest in bootstrapping architectures here
BingoBoingo: Do you still have
the WU information or should I GPGgram it again
PeterL: is it ok if I get
that sent out first
thing
tomorrow?
PeterL: seems
to be a function of how far from
the price listed elsewhere
that you start it
☟︎ lobbesbot: asciilifeform:
The operation succeeded.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-07 11:08 OriansJ: phf:
Tor-browser paranoid mode for reference
a111: Logged on 2019-04-07 08:49 spyked:
http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-07#1907214 <-- don't you find it weird,
though,
that you say
this, and
then after just a few lines you
http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-07#1907238 ?
this is not a rhetorical question: you're unimpressed by
the recorded 5+yo history of discussions of a group of ~actual people~, and
the reflection
therein of
their ~actually doing~
things; and
then immediately you go on
to referen
a111: Logged on 2019-04-07 12:01 OriansJ: now I am willing
to build from source
tools (after an audit)
that will work with v; so
that I can interact with
the patches directly but as I have not finished an audit nor
trust anyone who has previously audited
the code; I am left with
the bad option of setting up a burn box
to view
the patches.
OriansJ: phf: I have always felt precise and clear communication can only occur when both parties are open
to
the expression
to incomplete
thoughts with
the goal of synchronize understandings. Otherwise
the communication style is forced into a form of data dumps with long load
times and a general ineffectiveness of cooperation between individuals; particularly when
the delta between individuals is large.
phf: expressing yourself precisely and communicating clearly. another problem is
that you yourself start
thinking in shortcuts. and
to what end? like
take your svg comment, what's it supposed
to accomplish? "oh, how interesting". anyway, please don't do it here.
phf: OriansJ: so i've
thought about it, expressing concepts in forms for general consumption is a bad coping mechanism from a life
time of being
the smartest person in
the room (assuming
that it's not a ruse or self-delusion and you _are_ actually capable of clear
thinking). problem is
that it makes you lazy and rots
the brain, and
then when you're in
the room of equals or superiors you suddenly discover
that you're not practiced at
☟︎ OriansJ: phf: short version SVG
that only supports lines and
text but not SVG Animation or any of
the other fun extras.
☟︎ OriansJ: phf: well few people would understand
that position; so I
tend
to express concepts in forms for general consumption. Even
though it will result in loss of precision; as few people are
technical enough
to care about
the details lost.
phf: oh you just don't support html in general (presumably you still
http with something like wget), i
think your position would've been a lot stronger if you just said so, rather
then something something
tor browser. i'm vaguely curious what "non-turing complete svg subset" is, but
that's a stone
that will have
to be
turned some other
time
OriansJ: now I am willing
to build from source
tools (after an audit)
that will work with v; so
that I can interact with
the patches directly but as I have not finished an audit nor
trust anyone who has previously audited
the code; I am left with
the bad option of setting up a burn box
to view
the patches.
☟︎☟︎ OriansJ: phf: I have no web browser on my regular machine nor any desire
to add one.
OriansJ: phf: It is on a seperate machine;
The svg subset
that isn't
turing complete is enabled and working.
phf: oh, why not put your explorations on a separate machine, and have one machine
that's in actual working order? unless you've made a conscious choice not
to support svg in your stack, your stack appears
to be broken
OriansJ: phf:
The choice of browser as per your previous comment
phf: OriansJ: i don't understand what your comment is in response
to, would you mind elaborating
OriansJ: phf:
the cost of
trying
to interact with
those
that don't share one's values; for
the sake of hopefully learning something of value or finding a fruitful cooperation.