tmsr - Log 2019-04-09

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asciilifeform: OriansJ: if you answr mp's comments in today's log, tomorrow he can answer back, etc. this is typically how it worx here, rather than waiting always for folx all over planet to be awake simultaneously

asciilifeform: OriansJ: observe how http://btcbase.org/log/ works, pasted log refs are cross referenced automatically

asciilifeform: it saves many kilometres of length, nobody ever has to say anything twice.

asciilifeform: can also easily see what has been said on a subj, and by whom, e.g.,

asciilifeform: OriansJ: plz know that if you're waiting for mp to wake up and repeat what he has prev. said, you will be quite disappointed. nobody repeats; and failure to address prev comments in the log, is the height of ill manners: can be forgiven a noob once or twice, but one gets with the program and starts using the log , or loses voice fast.

asciilifeform: OriansJ: if you read today's log and genuinely found 0 to say, i cannot fathom what sorta 'mutually beneficial cooperation' you had in mind .

a111: Logged on 2019-04-08 09:34 mp_en_viaje: phf, can there be had eta for http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1892960 then ?

phf: i made a mistake of trying to rewrite url highlight in term of message annotations. the later is the mechanism i use for xref and such, and it scans the entire message corpus once, where's url highlight right now is done on each rerender.

a111: Logged on 2019-04-08 17:48 asciilifeform: ~that~ is how sane folx build irons. and not idjit intel's 'i'ma happily execute this random pile o'bits as a cpu instruction anytime' nonsense.

mp_en_viaje: so im sitting here with coffee, disaronno an' excellent italian gelatto, tryna find the bottom. so far -- bottomless bimbos, as in the celebrated "sfondami tutta"

mp_en_viaje: "This follows the example set by the Serene Republic" <<< something tells me ima be reading that ever more frequently.

a111: Logged on 2019-04-08 23:57 OriansJ: asciilifeform: No, I just haven't seen anything worth discussing, as I am only here to discuss the bootstrapping of Sane Iron and I will be here until I keep my word to bvt and have my discussion with mircea_popescu; to see if there is potential for mutually beneficial cooperation in regards to Sane Iron and Need to run something now.

asciilifeform: !!rate mp_en_viaje 1 by all appearances, mircea_popescu's mobile palace terminal

asciilifeform: !!v AE14263F3AA78B7C4109387AD6B1AB0B3552D1B50047E6CE640F2058B33AFD06

deedbot: asciilifeform rated mp_en_viaje 1 << by all appearances, mircea_popescu's mobile palace terminal

asciilifeform: d00d dun seem to actually have problem self-voicing tho. ( does, sadly , have problem with concept of reading log, but perhaps curable.. )

a111: Logged on 2019-04-09 11:28 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-08#1907364 << by next monday

BingoBoingo: http://trilema.com/2013/bitcoin-prices-bitcoin-inflexibility/ << TMSR doctrine has been against the idea of bottoms for a while now. Bottomless everythings and everybodies.

mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, you know, one of those hard, time consuming things women do to look like i like them to.

BingoBoingo: Nah, more gyrations less explosives moves into the air

BingoBoingo: ty, fxd

BingoBoingo remembers growing up in the US where the propaganda line was US missiles had the aim to kiss a target's asshole before exploding. Now, two decades and a couple dozen wars of various sizes later... "Next Gen" weapons not all that relevant. Air defense is the new cool because the threat to Peace this century has always been... US aircraft and missiles. Great Propoganda victory there guys.

diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-02#1610852 - as I found this only now when I stumbled upon Montmollin's various lib and had (for once!) a rather pleasant surprise: asciilifeform did you actually review any of his code? ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-02-02 01:08 asciilifeform: http://unzip-ada.sourceforge.net/za_html/index.htm << astonishingly readable literate-programming d00d. and he has a bunch of these.

diana_coman: the code I saw so far is quite readable and self-contained so all surprisingly good there but it's true that he still uses all sorts including unbounded strings and pointers where I'm not sure it's really unavoidable

asciilifeform: diana_coman: he's where i lifted the 'gnathtml' coad-to-www method thing. but i never had any occasion to use his zip lib in the field

asciilifeform: diana_coman: i'm quite skeptical re the 'unavoidable' of the use of unboundeds and pointerisms (in re the latter, outside of unix api glue) in the general case, tho

diana_coman: I saw that he has supposedly even an Ada browser but when I tried to get the sources it seems I got some incomplete/windows-dev thing

asciilifeform: diana_coman: what made you remember the item ? ( was looking for lzwtron ? )

diana_coman: he has a short and ok ini-files read/write thing that might come in handy for eulora client really

asciilifeform: re config txt parsers, i dun grasp why it would need heapism, rather than simple http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch18_subroutines.kv/tree/ffa/ffacalc/ffa_calc.adb#L99 -style offsets into the read-only text

diana_coman: as I said earlier: I don't think it *has to*; but he clearly doesn't have a problem with it and so he uses it; there are quite a few things grating, yes;

asciilifeform: if all yer 'strings' come from the inside of a large, static string, can represent'em simply as tuples , as pictured in above

asciilifeform: the ada array-slice notation makes this work properly without substantial effort, simply through the type constraint logic .

diana_coman: anyway, the ini files is a tidbit really; that was the entry point but since I saw afterwards all the www-oriented parts I got curious

asciilifeform: diana_coman: so far i've found that reading heathen ada examples ~cost~ me time, rather than saved, and put into my head things that later had to laboriously pump out. and the zip fella is no exception.

asciilifeform: 'everybody' used copious heapisms, pointerisms, 2ndarystackisms, etc. supposedly somewhere some avionics people didnt, but naturally never bothered to publish.

diana_coman: as I'm coming from a few years already of reading and wrestling planeshift code, I can't say it'll be reading heathen Ada that would cost me time, lol.

asciilifeform: 1st major piece of 'example' asciilifeform tried to eat, actually was the bignumtron ~inside gnat~ , in '16. and quickly barfed.

diana_coman: and yes, it's certainly precisely the case that copious heapisms, pointerisms etc - the reason for it being as far as I can see quite obvious too: no sweating from 1st principles, much easier that way, sure

asciilifeform: near as i can tell, these folx simply sat down and 'wrote c++ in ada', is all there was to it. ☟︎

diana_coman: this guy is the first that doesn't quite seem "c++ in ada" really i.e. he seems more focused on Ada for the right reasons; I suspect more the windows-based trouble as it were.

diana_coman: anyway, for client use, it's not ada-heapism that is in any way a problem really.

asciilifeform: i am unequipped to pontificate re euloratron, but as i recall the 'problem', such as there was, lives mostly in the 100MB+ of cpp legacy ???

diana_coman: yes; and client is entirely open up to players to make as well as they want to have it.

asciilifeform: this is where i confess that asciilifeform is not currently tuned in realtime to #e news, does not know what, if anyffin, the players have birthed

diana_coman: whatever they need; so far apparently not much but that's up to them.

asciilifeform: diana_coman: upstack to 'quasi-decent heathen adaists', 1 item from my notes is http://www.dmitry-kazakov.de/ada/components.htm

asciilifeform: ^ looked solid on surface, but must admit that asciilifeform did not attempt to put to use

diana_coman: ah, yes, that I looked at in the very beginning but tbh it still didn't help much and it was still simply Barnes' book I needed mostly.

asciilifeform: kazakov's thing isn't an ada tutorial, it's a (surprisingly well documented, for a heathen) lib collection

diana_coman: I suspect by now the "Ada-space" is rather mapped since I keep bumping into the same names ☟︎

asciilifeform: there aint so many names, even if you count erryone who's so much as touched the subj

asciilifeform: it's roughly similar to the commonlisp situation -- most of the extant coad is old/commercial/inhouse, unpublished. ☟︎

asciilifeform: thing hid in a cave from the 'open sores movement', and so kept some semblance of sanity , but at the cost of becoming essentially 'found martian artifact' from asciilifeform-circa-2016 pov

asciilifeform: asciilifeform would find it interesting to read the 1980s ada that's running on boeing etc. , but so far never found any leaked pieces thereof. would be interesting to see if resembles e.g. ffa style.

asciilifeform: if indeed so, i suppose it's a good job that we forked it before it got 'found'

asciilifeform pictures already the coming orgy of derps , writing 'ada' cum heapism/pointers , so to 'feel like a trader^H^H^H^H^Hboeing' etc

diana_coman: the easy gauge would be - go mention Ada and see reaction; far from "martian artefact" style; but that being said, I'm not giving it as "fact, here it is, started on x-y-z at 5pm" ☟︎

asciilifeform: whether happened yet or not, it dun particularly concern us imho -- any moar than mp has to think, when dining on foie gras, about rats gnawing on a goose carcass that died over a junkyard somewhere