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asciilifeform: OriansJ: if you answr mp's comments in today's log, tomorrow he can answer back, etc. this is typically how it worx here, rather than waiting always for folx all over planet to be awake simultaneously
asciilifeform: OriansJ: observe how http://btcbase.org/log/ works, pasted log refs are cross referenced automatically
asciilifeform: it saves many kilometres of length, nobody ever has to say anything twice.
asciilifeform: can also easily see what has been said on a subj, and by whom, e.g.,
asciilifeform: !#s from:asciilifeform karatsuba
a111: 93 results for "from:asciilifeform karatsuba", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Aasciilifeform%20karatsuba
asciilifeform: OriansJ: plz know that if you're waiting for mp to wake up and repeat what he has prev. said, you will be quite disappointed. nobody repeats; and failure to address prev comments in the log, is the height of ill manners: can be forgiven a noob once or twice, but one gets with the program and starts using the log , or loses voice fast.
asciilifeform: OriansJ: if you read today's log and genuinely found 0 to say, i cannot fathom what sorta 'mutually beneficial cooperation' you had in mind .
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-08#1907364 << by next monday ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2019-04-08 09:34 mp_en_viaje: phf, can there be had eta for http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1892960 then ?
phf: i made a mistake of trying to rewrite url highlight in term of message annotations. the later is the mechanism i use for xref and such, and it scans the entire message corpus once, where's url highlight right now is done on each rerender.
asciilifeform waves to mp_en_viaje & co
mp_en_viaje waves right back
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-08#1907671 << it was supposed to be a TERMINAL, holy hell. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-04-08 17:48 asciilifeform: ~that~ is how sane folx build irons. and not idjit intel's 'i'ma happily execute this random pile o'bits as a cpu instruction anytime' nonsense.
mp_en_viaje: intel is as much a computer maker as any umbrella shop.
asciilifeform: which terminal
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, the datapoint 2200
asciilifeform: a aa
mp_en_viaje: so im sitting here with coffee, disaronno an' excellent italian gelatto, tryna find the bottom. so far -- bottomless bimbos, as in the celebrated "sfondami tutta"
mp_en_viaje: "This follows the example set by the Serene Republic" <<< something tells me ima be reading that ever more frequently.
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-08#1907689 << well, i'm around. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-04-08 23:57 OriansJ: asciilifeform: No, I just haven't seen anything worth discussing, as I am only here to discuss the bootstrapping of Sane Iron and I will be here until I keep my word to bvt and have my discussion with mircea_popescu; to see if there is potential for mutually beneficial cooperation in regards to Sane Iron and Need to run something now.
mp_en_viaje: !!gettrust OriansJ
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: 0 by 0 connections.
mp_en_viaje: !!up OriansJ
deedbot: OriansJ voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: odd, i did rate him
asciilifeform: !!gettrust OriansJ
deedbot: L1: 1, L2: 1 by 1 connections.
asciilifeform: oh oooh
mp_en_viaje: oh i see
mp_en_viaje: !!gettrust deedbot OriansJ
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: 1 by 1 connections.
mp_en_viaje: right.
asciilifeform: !!rate mp_en_viaje 1 by all appearances, mircea_popescu's mobile palace terminal
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/fbHVx/?raw=true
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, incomprehensibly my travel key dun trust you any!
asciilifeform: !!v AE14263F3AA78B7C4109387AD6B1AB0B3552D1B50047E6CE640F2058B33AFD06
deedbot: asciilifeform rated mp_en_viaje 1 << by all appearances, mircea_popescu's mobile palace terminal
asciilifeform: d00d dun seem to actually have problem self-voicing tho. ( does, sadly , have problem with concept of reading log, but perhaps curable.. )
mp_en_viaje: yeah i got confuseled.
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-09#1907698 << eeexcellent! ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-04-09 11:28 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-08#1907364 << by next monday
BingoBoingo: http://trilema.com/2013/bitcoin-prices-bitcoin-inflexibility/ << TMSR doctrine has been against the idea of bottoms for a while now. Bottomless everythings and everybodies.
mp_en_viaje: holy shit, so much zumba.
mp_en_viaje: we're like 15 scoops in already.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: wat's a 'zumba' ?
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, you know, one of those hard, time consuming things women do to look like i like them to.
asciilifeform: aa gymnastics
BingoBoingo: Nah, more gyrations less explosives moves into the air
mp_en_viaje: buttnastics
mp_en_viaje: http://i.imgur.com/RA4xaxt.gif for futureference.
PeterL: zumba is basically working out to latin music
mp_en_viaje: just about.
mp_en_viaje: well, i guess that's all for now, catch'yall laters!
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/04/f-35-pain-continues-japan-loses-one-over-pacific-grounds-rest/ << Qntra -- F-35 Pain Continues: Japan Loses One Over Pacific, Grounds Rest
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: "turpoprop" lolz
BingoBoingo: ty, fxd
BingoBoingo remembers growing up in the US where the propaganda line was US missiles had the aim to kiss a target's asshole before exploding. Now, two decades and a couple dozen wars of various sizes later... "Next Gen" weapons not all that relevant. Air defense is the new cool because the threat to Peace this century has always been... US aircraft and missiles. Great Propoganda victory there guys.
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-02#1610852 - as I found this only now when I stumbled upon Montmollin's various lib and had (for once!) a rather pleasant surprise: asciilifeform did you actually review any of his code? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-02-02 01:08 asciilifeform: http://unzip-ada.sourceforge.net/za_html/index.htm << astonishingly readable literate-programming d00d. and he has a bunch of these.
diana_coman: the code I saw so far is quite readable and self-contained so all surprisingly good there but it's true that he still uses all sorts including unbounded strings and pointers where I'm not sure it's really unavoidable
asciilifeform: diana_coman: he's where i lifted the 'gnathtml' coad-to-www method thing. but i never had any occasion to use his zip lib in the field
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i'm quite skeptical re the 'unavoidable' of the use of unboundeds and pointerisms (in re the latter, outside of unix api glue) in the general case, tho
diana_coman: I saw that he has supposedly even an Ada browser but when I tried to get the sources it seems I got some incomplete/windows-dev thing
diana_coman: me2!
asciilifeform: diana_coman: what made you remember the item ? ( was looking for lzwtron ? )
diana_coman: he has a short and ok ini-files read/write thing that might come in handy for eulora client really
asciilifeform: aa
diana_coman: but yes, that uses also unbound strings
diana_coman: from there I had a look at his zip ada and the rest
asciilifeform: re config txt parsers, i dun grasp why it would need heapism, rather than simple http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch18_subroutines.kv/tree/ffa/ffacalc/ffa_calc.adb#L99 -style offsets into the read-only text
diana_coman: as I said earlier: I don't think it *has to*; but he clearly doesn't have a problem with it and so he uses it; there are quite a few things grating, yes;
asciilifeform: if all yer 'strings' come from the inside of a large, static string, can represent'em simply as tuples , as pictured in above
asciilifeform: the ada array-slice notation makes this work properly without substantial effort, simply through the type constraint logic .
diana_coman: certainly.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch18_subroutines.kv/tree/ffa/ffacalc/ffa_calc.adb#L553 << for thread-completeness, illustration of matching such 'strings'
asciilifeform: kudos to phf btw for the colourized display
diana_coman: anyway, the ini files is a tidbit really; that was the entry point but since I saw afterwards all the www-oriented parts I got curious
asciilifeform: diana_coman: so far i've found that reading heathen ada examples ~cost~ me time, rather than saved, and put into my head things that later had to laboriously pump out. and the zip fella is no exception.
asciilifeform: 'everybody' used copious heapisms, pointerisms, 2ndarystackisms, etc. supposedly somewhere some avionics people didnt, but naturally never bothered to publish.
asciilifeform: so i had to sweat it out from first principles.
diana_coman: as I'm coming from a few years already of reading and wrestling planeshift code, I can't say it'll be reading heathen Ada that would cost me time, lol.
diana_coman: but I get what you mean
asciilifeform: 1st major piece of 'example' asciilifeform tried to eat, actually was the bignumtron ~inside gnat~ , in '16. and quickly barfed.
diana_coman: and yes, it's certainly precisely the case that copious heapisms, pointerisms etc - the reason for it being as far as I can see quite obvious too: no sweating from 1st principles, much easier that way, sure
asciilifeform: near as i can tell, these folx simply sat down and 'wrote c++ in ada', is all there was to it. ☟︎
diana_coman: this guy is the first that doesn't quite seem "c++ in ada" really i.e. he seems more focused on Ada for the right reasons; I suspect more the windows-based trouble as it were.
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/xqalm#selection-3397.1-3397.14 << oblig illust.
diana_coman: anyway, for client use, it's not ada-heapism that is in any way a problem really.
asciilifeform: i am unequipped to pontificate re euloratron, but as i recall the 'problem', such as there was, lives mostly in the 100MB+ of cpp legacy ???
diana_coman: yes; and client is entirely open up to players to make as well as they want to have it.
asciilifeform: this is where i confess that asciilifeform is not currently tuned in realtime to #e news, does not know what, if anyffin, the players have birthed
diana_coman: whatever they need; so far apparently not much but that's up to them.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: upstack to 'quasi-decent heathen adaists', 1 item from my notes is http://www.dmitry-kazakov.de/ada/components.htm
asciilifeform: ^ looked solid on surface, but must admit that asciilifeform did not attempt to put to use
asciilifeform: he has parsers, tcptronics, various datastructures
diana_coman: ah, yes, that I looked at in the very beginning but tbh it still didn't help much and it was still simply Barnes' book I needed mostly.
asciilifeform: kazakov's thing isn't an ada tutorial, it's a (surprisingly well documented, for a heathen) lib collection
diana_coman: I suspect by now the "Ada-space" is rather mapped since I keep bumping into the same names ☟︎
asciilifeform: there aint so many names, even if you count erryone who's so much as touched the subj
diana_coman: myeah
asciilifeform: it's roughly similar to the commonlisp situation -- most of the extant coad is old/commercial/inhouse, unpublished. ☟︎
asciilifeform: thing hid in a cave from the 'open sores movement', and so kept some semblance of sanity , but at the cost of becoming essentially 'found martian artifact' from asciilifeform-circa-2016 pov
asciilifeform: asciilifeform would find it interesting to read the 1980s ada that's running on boeing etc. , but so far never found any leaked pieces thereof. would be interesting to see if resembles e.g. ffa style.
diana_coman: perhaps; fwiw I think there's a rather funny rush to "find" Ada.
asciilifeform: there is?! (since when?? i -- mercifully -- apparently missed)
asciilifeform: if indeed so, i suppose it's a good job that we forked it before it got 'found'
asciilifeform pictures already the coming orgy of derps , writing 'ada' cum heapism/pointers , so to 'feel like a trader^H^H^H^H^Hboeing' etc
diana_coman: the easy gauge would be - go mention Ada and see reaction; far from "martian artefact" style; but that being said, I'm not giving it as "fact, here it is, started on x-y-z at 5pm" ☟︎
asciilifeform: whether happened yet or not, it dun particularly concern us imho -- any moar than mp has to think, when dining on foie gras, about rats gnawing on a goose carcass that died over a junkyard somewhere
diana_coman: exactly.
diana_coman will go to sleep
asciilifeform: goodnight diana_coman
asciilifeform bbl:tea