log
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jurov: c1no can we hear more about the oracles?
jurov: whether they are those contributing to polimedia.us/dtng
jurov: or some other kind
kakobrekla: ;;ud spoiled brat
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=spoiled%20brat | A kid who wants everything they see... and they cry and scream thir heads off until they get it.
kakobrekla: ;;ticker
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 97.50002, Best ask: 97.66999, Bid-ask spread: 0.16997, Last trade: 97.50002, 24 hour volume: 167079.16352366, 24 hour low: 85.50000, 24 hour high: 109.99800, 24 hour vwap: 99.06497
kakobrekla: not worthless yet so argument invalid
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 28 @ 0.0045 = 0.126 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 68 @ 0.00371 = 0.2523 BTC [+]
pgp: what is this ;;next functionality?
kakobrekla: ;;next
gribble: expecting 105 if we break 99 | targets: 105, 113, 124, 130 on the upside | support: 94, 92, 87-88 | resistance: 102.5, 105, 110 | lowball buy target: 74-75 | strong rally sell target: 138-148 | updated by OneFixt at Apr 14 2013, 20:46 UTC ( tips: http://bit.ly/YnxUM4 ) | disclaimer: http://bit.ly/129bYJ6 | this is not investment or trading advice | 25 minutes and 19 seconds ago
kakobrekla: like eightball, but more elaborate
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 158 @ 0.01 = 1.58 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 20 @ 0.1 = 2 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 1 @ 0.0971 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 42 @ 0.097 = 4.074 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: ;;eightball will we hit 98
gribble: No clue.
mircea_popescu: basically nonsense.
thestringpuller: XD
thestringpuller: ;;eightball is mircea_popescu getting laid?
gribble: I doubt it very much.
thestringpuller: So mircea_popescu you have some splaining to do
mircea_popescu: ;;eightball do i have any explaining to do
gribble: One would be wise to think so.
mircea_popescu: lmao
thestringpuller: :D
thestringpuller: I expect a blog post please.
thestringpuller: jkjk
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller http://polimedia.us/dtng/c/res/13773.html
thestringpuller: is that that thing that keeps your penis flacid, but if you get an erection it hurts
thestringpuller: they made a joke about that in californication
orkaa: ugh, does this thing have a tube that goes inside your dick
orkaa: that could… hurt
mircea_popescu: i think it's designed to
pgp: bitcoinity added interval high/low on the charts - nice..
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10319 @ 0.00068593 = 7.0781 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: afaik that was always there
pgp: really, never rendered for me...
mircea_popescu: high: 100.75 low: 92.00
mircea_popescu: that's what you mean right ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: possibly relevant to your future "Bitcoin over shortwave" station: http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a207831.pdf
pgp: no.. shaded red/green enveloping on the line chart...
mircea_popescu: i can't believe people still use pdfs
mircea_popescu: pgp o o
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ok i don't get this. use meteors how ?!
pgp: i like it - a bit more intuitive than a candlestick chart...
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteor_burst_communications
kakobrekla: candlestisks are fun
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: like satellite comms, but without having to launch satellites.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: what do you use instead of pdfs?
mircea_popescu: da fuck. ok, that's clever.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller text.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: one thought: this could even be done for profit. Say, transmit the normal blockchain with a few hours of lag, but those who paid a transaction fee get broadcast in real time.
mircea_popescu: nah. problem with mbc i'm told is that it has very narrow bw
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: a few kb/sec. will suffice in the hypothetical Dark Internet-less Future and its transaction volume
mircea_popescu: maybe a kb/sec but most trails don't last a second
mircea_popescu: anyway. why not just make a bunch of normal ham radio stations ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: I think the quoted bandwidth takes the frequency of usable ion trails into account.
mircea_popescu: there's no real advantage in communicating over geographical gaps.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: without ionosphere bounce (shortwave, <30MHz) or something like MBC you will have a very short usable distance.
thestringpuller: tookah
thestringpuller: ppokah oomla doomah!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the idea is that if you don't manage to get 10-20-50 mile continuity between statyions
mircea_popescu: it's unlikely for your currency to be useful or recognised anyway.
Diablo-D3: actually, you could just do non-geo sats
Diablo-D3: that repeat the entire chain
mircea_popescu: the roman empire coinage only had much relevance in those places 10 miles or closer to a castrum
Diablo-D3: using commodity equipment
mircea_popescu: Diablo-D3 ya but the idea is that for w/e reason you can't use satellites at all
Diablo-D3: so what, just bouncing it off shortwave using high gain antennas?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the scenario I envision has BTC playing the role of gold bullion, that is relevant despite only being used in relatively few places.
mircea_popescu: basically
Diablo-D3: well
Diablo-D3: shortwave is probably too high bandwidth for what we want
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ya but that's fiction. you'd have one chain per pocket.
mircea_popescu: there'd be canadacaoin and mexicocoin etc
Diablo-D3: asciilifeform may get what he wants anyhow
mircea_popescu: the cocoin
Diablo-D3: this is why I want to start my own chain
Diablo-D3: to be the silver to btc's gold
mircea_popescu: you're starting ltc ?
kakobrekla: lol
Diablo-D3: no, ltc did it wrong
Diablo-D3: it should have never used the bitcoin codebase like it did
asciilifeform: a scenario where there are multiple blockchains, but automated exchanges connect at least the well-behaved ones, is in some ways equivalent to having one blockchain.
Diablo-D3: they didnt understand the implications of the code, and they fucked it up
Diablo-D3: litecoin is dead, hell, it was never born
Diablo-D3: it went nowhere and did nothing
Diablo-D3: I refer to litecoin using past tense.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 730 @ 0.00068593 = 0.5007 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7449 @ 0.00068551 = 5.1064 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6250 @ 0.00068538 = 4.2836 BTC [-]
kakobrekla: theres all the other 10 chains
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10000 @ 0.00068351 = 6.8351 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8621 @ 0.00068305 = 5.8886 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah in some ways. but if you can't interconnect then youi can't really have an exchange.
Diablo-D3: kakobrekla: yeah, but they're all based on bitcoin
Diablo-D3: I don't directly want that.
mircea_popescu: is solid coin still around btw ?
Diablo-D3: I want to take the ideas of bitcoin and use new code
asciilifeform: Diablo-D3: LTC ~= 1.3 USD, as of a few seconds ago. Not exactly gum wrappers yet.
Diablo-D3: well hows this
mircea_popescu: Diablo-D3 if you actually take satoshi's stuff, write A SPEC and then have some implementations
kakobrekla: i dont think they are based on btc.. not all of them
mircea_popescu: you;ll have some of my attention.
Diablo-D3: mircea_popescu: there will be a spec, yes.
kakobrekla: i mean some are significantly different and stupider
Diablo-D3: Ill need help writing it from people who write formal specs
asciilifeform: Diablo-D3: sorry, had the denominations reversed. but still.
Diablo-D3: kakobrekla: they started with the bitcoin codebase, none of them went it from scratch
mircea_popescu: this is true, he has a point there.
mircea_popescu: a full re-doing of satoshi's stuff would be great even if only an exercise.
kakobrekla: but he is not speaking about that
mircea_popescu: pretend it's 2009 and you just published the paper. nao what.
Diablo-D3: yes I am
mircea_popescu: i thought he was
Diablo-D3: Im saying Im going to do it from scratch
Diablo-D3: theres a lot of interesting ideas I want to try out on making chain transmission faster
Diablo-D3: we have what equates to a giant torrent network
Diablo-D3: why arent we using it as such
Diablo-D3: I also want to make it very fucking difficult for ASICs to win
Diablo-D3: GPUs and FPGAs are already out
asciilifeform: Diablo-D3: at this point, an alt-chain is guilty until proven innocent of being a clever pre-mining scheme.
kakobrekla: first you want to run asic then you want to kill asic
kakobrekla: im not following
mircea_popescu: Diablo-D3 http://polimedia.us/dtng/c/src/133347564549.jpg clit likes your idea.
asciilifeform: Diablo-D3: and ASICs will always win in the end.
Diablo-D3: asciilifeform: its impossible to premine anyhow
Diablo-D3: if your first block is 0
Diablo-D3: and hwardwired into the client
Diablo-D3: or rather, your first block's parent is 0
Diablo-D3: how the fuck do you premine it
Scrat: i will mine diablocoins
asciilifeform: Diablo-D3: people will always assume that whoever the early miners turn out to be, are in cahoots with whoever proposes the alt-chain.
Diablo-D3: asciilifeform: well, they are.
kakobrekla: dont call it diablocoin
Diablo-D3: even with bitcoin it was
thestringpuller: I will mine diablo coins too
kakobrekla: or maybe better yet yeah do that.
mircea_popescu: ya srsly. can it be called something other than "Coin"
Diablo-D3: hell, I think satoshi may have even asked me early on to use bitcoin
Diablo-D3: either that, or someone who he asked asked me
Diablo-D3: I know satoshi used multiple irc nicks
kakobrekla: one of them was Diablo-D3
thestringpuller: lololol
kakobrekla: conspirazi
Diablo-D3: YES< KAK, IM SATOSHI, YOU CAUGHT ME
thestringpuller: hahahaha
Diablo-D3: seriously, you'd think I would write c++ that horrid?
mircea_popescu: lol he was fishing for that so hard
asciilifeform: now, consider an alt-chain where mining can only be done with human labour. say, solving PSPACE-complete puzzles like Sokoban.
assbot: [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.13 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: o yes
Diablo-D3: asciilifeform: Ive written bots that do sokoban for me on nethack
mircea_popescu: i'd have my slavegirls mining naked in chains
Diablo-D3: so w/e
mircea_popescu: I WOULD RULE THIS COIN
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: exactly. slavegirls don't scale quite as well as ASICs.
mircea_popescu: i beg your pardon ?
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu is actually jabba the hutt
mircea_popescu: here we are 4 years in all we have is ~300 asics
thestringpuller: builds his empire on slave girls
mircea_popescu: get out. slavegirls scale way better.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: I'm rather surprised you have not built SlaveCoin yet.
mircea_popescu: im lazy.
thestringpuller: that's why mpex is 1990's
mircea_popescu: this is the problem with slavery, it doesn't promot innovation.
thestringpuller: :D
ThickAsThieves: wtb 10,000 diablocoins at gox spot price
mircea_popescu: actually,. to go real fascist :
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8380 @ 0.00068305 = 5.724 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: Diablo-D3: Satoshi's use of gnarly C++ is one of the best pieces of evidence for the "Bitcoin is an NSA black project" crackpot hypothesis.
Diablo-D3: well, if btc is going to reach global GDP prices ($34k at current global GDP) then DiabloCoin should be around $1.
mircea_popescu: you could have mining which consists of giving birth to specified-dna babies.
Diablo-D3: asciilifeform: /me shrugs
mircea_popescu: you'd have to keep a bunch of vats somewhere which'd be the blockchain
Diablo-D3: but basically
Diablo-D3: you know how blocks are named by a 256 bit value?
Diablo-D3: I think I might go the 1024 bit value route
mircea_popescu: why ?
Diablo-D3: qc proof.
mircea_popescu: explain it to me like i'm retarded
mircea_popescu: which is usually the case anyway.
Diablo-D3: okay, you know what scrypt is, right?
Diablo-D3: scrypt isn't limited to what ltc is doing with it
mircea_popescu: yeah
kakobrekla: cant they change that like bitcoin can to sha512
Diablo-D3: kakobrekla: they'd have to actually do it
Diablo-D3: and they have no interest in doing it
kakobrekla: ....
Diablo-D3: kakobrekla: I dont think they're smart enough to figure out how, honestly.
kakobrekla: like bitcoin isnt at sha512 yet cause there is no interest cause there is no need cause its making sense ?
Diablo-D3: the original scrypt spec doesnt allow the sizes Im talking about
asciilifeform: all of the Bitcoin-like altchains are doomed, because the first serious guy with a semiconductor fab will own the world. SlaveCoin is the future!
mircea_popescu: who's "they"
Diablo-D3: mircea_popescu: the ltc devs
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's more people owning slaves than semiconductor fabs. this is a fact.
mircea_popescu: there's multiple ltc devs ?!
mircea_popescu: i thought it was just the azn kid
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the slaves need a certain minimum IQ, for Sokoban.
mircea_popescu: most slaves are smarter than average for their area.
Diablo-D3: mircea_popescu: theres been other committers
Diablo-D3: close enough to say plural
mircea_popescu: a ok
mircea_popescu: i never followed it closely
Diablo-D3: anyhow, he took an off the shelf message signing scheme
Diablo-D3: well
Diablo-D3: a key derivation function
Diablo-D3: and threw it in
Diablo-D3: without really understanding how it it worked
asciilifeform: think about the endgame in the ASIC trend. eventually, only powerful industrial nations will matter in the BTC game, because they can afford to build fabs. Just a handful each, even. And we're back to the central-baking clusterfuck we see with fiat.
Diablo-D3: asciilifeform: exactly
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no we're not.
Diablo-D3: which is why I want something that requires off the shelf normal CPUs
asciilifeform: SlaveCoin, on the other hand, evens the playing field somewhat.
mircea_popescu: no it doesn't omg. the same can be said : only the most powerful states can keep slaves etc.
Diablo-D3: mircea_popescu: basically
Diablo-D3: https://www.tarsnap.com/scrypt.html
Diablo-D3: read that
Diablo-D3: see where it says -m?
mircea_popescu: ya
asciilifeform: Diablo-D3: any scheme that claims to be resistant to hardware brute-forcing which doesn't change complexity class is hollow - it just hasn't met the right hardware yet.
Diablo-D3: ltc could be fixed if they used -m for difficulty.
Diablo-D3: asciilifeform: no, the right hardware exists
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.427 BTC [+]
Diablo-D3: like, I can buy a machine that has 1TB of memory
thestringpuller: !ticker m S.MPOE
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00068305 / 0.00069902 / 0.0007217 (434901 shares, 304.01 BTC), 7D: 0.00063322 / 0.00069632 / 0.000735 (2592815 shares, 1,805.44 BTC), 30D: 0.00059218 / 0.00068937 / 0.00077505 (10918510 shares, 7,526.99 BTC)
Diablo-D3: asciilifeform: Im not saying I can stop asics
Diablo-D3: Im saying I can make their construction very expensive
asciilifeform: Diablo-D3: a PC with 1TB of RAM will still be beaten by an ASIC connected to the same 1TB of RAM.
Diablo-D3: not really
Diablo-D3: scrypt is not computation hard.
Diablo-D3: once you've gone past the size of your cache, the speed of scrypt is the speed of your memory.
mircea_popescu: i think they should use -M anyweay
mircea_popescu: -m is nonsense.
Diablo-D3: er
Diablo-D3: I meant -M not -m
Scrat: ram is easier to fab than logic
mircea_popescu: lol omg i found first diablocoin bug
Diablo-D3: Scrat: yes, but anyone can find it
mircea_popescu: but scrat has a point
Diablo-D3: mircea_popescu: hurr
asciilifeform: Diablo-D3: fine, the ASIC will have RAM on-die, running at the same clock.
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-MINING] 1 @ 0.007 BTC [+]
Diablo-D3: asciilifeform: do you realize how expensive that is?
asciilifeform: Diablo-D3: certainly
Diablo-D3: I'm trying to wildly drive up the cost of ASICs
mircea_popescu: this is a lost bet.
Diablo-D3: it can be done
mircea_popescu: the cost of making computers is nil. we're getting there.
asciilifeform: Diablo-D3: but raising the cost of attack is a loser's game. eventually someone will pony up the cost, and rule.
mircea_popescu: ^
Diablo-D3: asciilifeform: yes, but do you know what the fun part is?
mircea_popescu: actually raising the cost is building an advantage for the attacker.
mircea_popescu: keep cost low.
Diablo-D3: difficulty is linked to -M.
mircea_popescu: bitcoin was a LOT stronger back when ppl cpu minded it
Diablo-D3: think about what I just said.
mircea_popescu: we had 100k nodes and a bunch of miners.
mircea_popescu: now... not so much. 500 nodes and 5 miners.
Diablo-D3: mircea_popescu: shush for a sec
asciilifeform: right now you can put the BTC world in your pocket for less than the cost of a jumbo jet.
Diablo-D3: asciilifeform is thinking
Diablo-D3: give up? if difficulty is linked to -M, your asics _stop working_
Diablo-D3: they run out of memory
mircea_popescu: um
mircea_popescu: floating -M may be a great idea.
mircea_popescu: in that it ruins on-die ram designs
asciilifeform: Diablo-D3: all you need is a high-speed interconnect that lets you connect arbitrarily more of whatever the necessary resource is (RAM, hashing power, etc.)
mircea_popescu: BUT! you can just make asics with 1 tb worth of ram per chip and redundant math processes which just share it.
Diablo-D3: asciilifeform: yes, but people can already buy those
mircea_popescu: so your asic may slow down as m goes up but that's all
Diablo-D3: mircea_popescu: yes but I still eat away at that
Diablo-D3: normal people can buy off the shelf hardware and do it cheaper
mircea_popescu: noit for long.
Diablo-D3: Im trying to make it cost ineffective for asics to win
mircea_popescu: this was true of gpus too
mircea_popescu: i get what you're trying but you're not ther eyet.
Diablo-D3: sha256 is computational intensive
Diablo-D3: it uses basically no memory
Diablo-D3: scrypt uses basically no cpu, but is memory intensive
asciilifeform: the fun part in all of this is that "for every wily arse, somewhere there is a cock with threads." Eventually someone builds an optical computer operating on standing-wave physics, that pwns every new hashing function you come up with the day it comes out.
mod6: isn't it true that major chip makers will get into this space as btc becomes more widespread and demand for these chipsets becomes higher? innovation will follow also?
Diablo-D3: asciilifeform: of course
Diablo-D3: mircea_popescu: the thing is, average people can buy ram
Diablo-D3: average people CANT buy asics
Diablo-D3: and asics + ram isnt a winning solution
mircea_popescu: mod6 so we hope
asciilifeform: the only long-term solution is a work function that is "AI-complete." Hence SlaveCoin.
mod6: why not? what if AMD comes out with ASICs in '14?
Diablo-D3: the cost of an ASIC with 1TB of ram is going to be the same as a cheap CPU with 1TB of ram
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform however the problem of making an ai-ciomplete pow function is ALSO kinda difficult./
Diablo-D3: its the ram thats going to be expensive, not the ASIC
mircea_popescu: Diablo-D3 nah, it will be higher cause of economies of scale.
mircea_popescu: cpus have a large mkt already
Diablo-D3: mircea_popescu: yes, and cpus are the highest economy of scale
Diablo-D3: the asics and cpus would use the same ram, and have boards just as complex
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: here's a starting point: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.52.41
mircea_popescu: basically your coin would be mined in datacenters.
Diablo-D3: mircea_popescu: it probably would be
asciilifeform: what remains is to work it into a workable scheme for a hash chain
Diablo-D3: mircea_popescu: but a lot of people have already built mining farms in their basements
asciilifeform: an "exercise for the alert reader," really.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so are you working on this ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: I might, if I lacked anything else to do. Personally I'm not sitting on a stable of slaves waiting to be Sokobanned.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you, on the other hand, have plenty of motivation to try, possibly.
mircea_popescu: it's the internet, easy enough to do.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21000 @ 0.00068305 = 14.3441 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: i don't happen to believe in making things to own. i prefer owning things other ppl make
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there are a great many interesting hard problems, and life is short.
mircea_popescu: yeah.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: you made an exchange though that you now own
thestringpuller: why contradict yourself?
mircea_popescu: only for lack of options
mircea_popescu: hater
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: dealing in financial instruments is the most effective means of pwning people. far better than the sword.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform let me get this straight.
mircea_popescu: suppose we find a liniarisation of sokoban maps, such that any arbitrary number comes to a map
mircea_popescu: proof of work could be then accomplished by showing a path of solving the map in at most N steps, where n is the difficulty.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10750 @ 0.00068305 = 7.3428 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: did i miss something here ?
Scrat: litecoin-0.6.3c-linux.tar.gz — Litecoin v0.6.3c for Linux (tgz, 32/64-bit) 10.9MB · Uploaded 9 months ago
Scrat: is litecoin too cool for recent code or what
mircea_popescu: lol
mod6: if its perfect, no need to change it! trololol
Scrat: goat found http://porngo.at
mod6: wat
mircea_popescu: haha
mircea_popescu: why not trade them on mpex i wonder.
mod6: yeah, weird. and these are weeklies?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8850 @ 0.00068305 = 6.045 BTC [-]
mod6: well, i guess they have up to the next forward month
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8050 @ 0.00068412 = 5.5072 BTC [+]
mod6: oh its: personname: Josh Popham
mircea_popescu: lolwut ?
Scrat: to*
mircea_popescu: haha jcpham went into the options biz ?
mod6: yeah
mod6: looks that way
Scrat: I don't think it's his
Scrat: fbastage made it iirc
mircea_popescu: no idea who that is
mod6: he's the owner of the domain: `whois porngo.at`
mod6: these are only european style also.
mod6: anyway, interesting
mircea_popescu: ouch
mircea_popescu: well... if european style end of month options go for like .4 btc per 96 call
mircea_popescu: then maybe mpoe bot isn't even that overpriced atm
mod6: ok so the buyer puts in the expiry time, depending if they want weekly or monthy or next forward month: "The expiration date is ________ (GMT) "
mod6: but yeah, they can't exercise on their own
thestringpuller: maybe someone should take those numbers and make bids
thestringpuller: as mircea_popescu indicated
Diablo-D3: mircea_popescu: btw something Im interested in
mod6: i wonder if these contracts will be PGP signed by both parties? i guess someone would have to inquire further...
Diablo-D3: mircea_popescu: so, blocks are going to keep getting bigger and bigger and bigger, right?
Diablo-D3: I should be able to use network coding to basically torrent the new block to all my peers
Diablo-D3: say, use compression to compress it as far as possible, then use some form of reed solomon error correction
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14159 @ 0.00068412 = 9.6865 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8309 @ 0.00069018 = 5.7347 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1332 @ 0.00069049 = 0.9197 BTC [+]
Diablo-D3: so I can send it out in chunks, and getting x of y chunks you can reconstruct the missing (y - x) chunks
Diablo-D3: but not only that, all nodes start repeating the block BEFORE Ive sent (y- x) chunks
Scrat: so you compress it and get to 60% of the size, then a healthy application of reed solomon codes will give you another 40%
Diablo-D3: Scrat: hah
Diablo-D3: Scrat: reed solomon codes wont do that
Diablo-D3: infact, lets say I need 3 blocks to reconstruct 4
Scrat: if you use something fast like snappy I doubt it will go below 80-90%
Diablo-D3: er, 3 reed solomon block chunks to reconstruct 4
Diablo-D3: the physical space taken up by 3 will be the size of the original
Diablo-D3: so I dont get compression out of those
Scrat: I still don't get where it will be used
Diablo-D3: it propagates the block faster
pgp: wow a lot of coin just printed...
Diablo-D3: I send chunk A to peer 1, that completes, then I send chunk B to peer 2 and while Im sending it to 2, peer 1 is sending A to peer n
thestringpuller: Shits getting super real
Diablo-D3: and then that finishes, and I send chunk C to peer 3, and while Im doing that, peer 1 sends A to another n (where n includes 2 and 3), peer 2 sends B to n (which includes 1 and 3)
Diablo-D3: blocks may become double or triple digits in size
Diablo-D3: er
Diablo-D3: double or triple digits of MB
Scrat: i still think that more intelligence in the download algorithms will trump whatever improvement you will get there
Diablo-D3: Scrat: that IS the intelligence
Diablo-D3: Scrat: Im actually surprised bittorrent didnt go that route
Diablo-D3: it chunks torrents up and seeds sends blocks evenly to peers
Diablo-D3: ie, it prioritizes chunks that have low visibility
Scrat: well I need to think about it but it looks as if you're gonna need to have a lot of RS redundancy to make that usable
Diablo-D3: but it has a lot of shit on top to handle error correction
Diablo-D3: Scrat: well, no
Scrat: whales be dumpin'
Diablo-D3: Scrat: a properly done RS setup of n of m, the size of n chunks is going to be at least the size of the original
Diablo-D3: so if I need 3 or 4 of a 128kb block, 3 RS chunks will be 128kb
Scrat: well at this point my brain capacity is reduced to watching kiefer sutherland on my 3rd monitor
Diablo-D3: actually, lets say 192kb block, 3 chunks will be 192kb
Diablo-D3: I send in total 256kb for a 192kb
Scrat: and we shouldn't discuss this anymore :p
Diablo-D3: but get in return faster propegation rate
Diablo-D3: Scrat: btw, theres another thing
Diablo-D3: with RS built in
Diablo-D3: people could send these over shitty wireless links
Scrat: bleh, like bit errors make it to the application level
Scrat: that's so rare
Diablo-D3: as in, non-networking
Diablo-D3: as in, Bitcoin Eye In the Sky
Diablo-D3: btw, I probably wouldnt go the route of 3 out of 4
Scrat: ditch the OS/lang idea imo and make a new coin
ThickAsThieves: ;;ticker
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 89.95308, Best ask: 90.00000, Bid-ask spread: 0.04692, Last trade: 90.00000, 24 hour volume: 152496.21232257, 24 hour low: 89.25715, 24 hour high: 109.99800, 24 hour vwap: 98.94765
Diablo-D3: 8 of 10 or 128 of 30 seem to be optimal route
Diablo-D3: Scrat: I already shelved seaking
Diablo-D3: I didnt like the direction it was going
Diablo-D3: I can do those techniques in C
Diablo-D3: its just more verbose
Scrat: oh shiz, 2 day minimum?
Diablo-D3: 2 days for what
Scrat: talking about price sorry
Diablo-D3: 128 out of 130 would be really interesting btw
Diablo-D3: send 195kb for a 192kb block
Diablo-D3: connect to 130 peers, send each one chunk
Diablo-D3: entire bitcoin network replicates your block as quickly as possible
Scrat: well i guess it does make a bit of sense, just 2-3% of overhead for a great increase in availability
Diablo-D3: the entire network could theoretically have chunk 1 by the time you finish chunk 130
assbot: [BTCTC] [LTC-MINING] 2 @ 0.25 = 0.5 BTC [-]
kakobrekla: ;;ticker
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 88.00001, Best ask: 88.06169, Bid-ask spread: 0.06168, Last trade: 88.06169, 24 hour volume: 159387.05385511, 24 hour low: 84.88000, 24 hour high: 109.99800, 24 hour vwap: 98.39396
thestringpuller: Diablo-D3: dude wtf
Scrat: BT is quite old btw and most innovations on it have to do with avoiding centralization
Diablo-D3: Scrat: yes, which we have in spades
thestringpuller: get the fuck out of here with that scamcoin shit
Scrat: YESSIR
Diablo-D3: thestringpuller: are you trolling me?
thestringpuller: sort of, why do you people always want to reinvent the wheel rather than make the wheel better?
Diablo-D3: thestringpuller: this is making the wheel better
thestringpuller: haven't we all fucking learned that Unix did everything right years ago?
Diablo-D3: thestringpuller: actually its funny you mention that
kakobrekla: wait the topic of the convo is still diablocoin?
thestringpuller: yet people still wanna reinvent shit
Diablo-D3: no we havent
Diablo-D3: otherwise WE WOULDNT HAVE FUCKING THREADS
Diablo-D3: SERIOUSLY
Scrat: but to be fair such a scheme will in no way be a USP for a new coin
Diablo-D3: WHO THE FUCK THOUGHT THREADS WAS _EVER_ SUCH A GOOD IDEA
Scrat: QC resistance might be
thestringpuller: Dude don't engineers started on the "threads' debate
thestringpuller: that's like arguing with a vegan about honey
Diablo-D3: thestringpuller: wait, what?
Diablo-D3: thestringpuller: I request a new analogy
thestringpuller: D00D threads suck, we get it.
Scrat: Diablo-D3: a coin with coloring built in
thestringpuller: chrome works on processes etc.
Diablo-D3: Scrat: that could be interesting, but Im not entirely sure how colored coins work
Diablo-D3: thestringpuller: it works on processes poorly
Diablo-D3: chrome is an utter pile of shit
Scrat: u wut
Scrat: chrome is the most advanced browser by far
deadweasel: choromium is nice too
Diablo-D3: Scrat: yes, and so is safari and firefox by that measuring stick
Diablo-D3: they all suck
deadweasel: you still on lynx?
Scrat: they did things right from the get go
Scrat: proper sandboxing, isolation, JS engine
Diablo-D3: anyhow
Scrat: we are waay waay offtopic
Diablo-D3: the point Im trying to make here
Scrat: ;;ticker --last
Diablo-D3: is Im not reinventing bitcoin
gribble: 86.99999
Diablo-D3: Im making it better
thestringpuller: You won't know that until it's used.
thestringpuller: We don't know anything.
asciilifeform: re: colored coin: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=988
Diablo-D3: well, Im assuming that bitcoin will eventually copy my ideas
deadweasel: when frying a skinny fish, do to poke at it too much, this spoils the fish.
deadweasel: (the fish is bitcoin)
deadweasel: do not*
deadweasel: poke at the fish :D
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.427 BTC [+]
Diablo-D3: asciilifeform: huh
Diablo-D3: I like that idea
kakobrekla: !l m s.dice
assbot: Last trade for S.DICE on MPEX was at 0.00328066 BTC [-]
Diablo-D3: but what stops me from doing that now?
asciilifeform: Diablo-D3: nothing.
exfortuna: does anyone know where I could find data for bitcoin difficulty?
kakobrekla: exfortuna current of historic?
exfortuna: historic
Scrat: exfortuna: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/
Diablo-D3: okay so wait
Diablo-D3: you sign your coins
Diablo-D3: and then people can coutersign your coins if you're a dick?
Diablo-D3: and then people can reject coins that have too many countersignatories?
exfortuna: Thank you, but is there a way to get raw data? I'm doing a regression analysis for an econ class
Diablo-D3: exfortuna: you can calculate it from the chain
asciilifeform: Diablo-D3: more or less. but note that their signatures only count if you deliberately offered your coins for the process (to build trust.)
Diablo-D3: asciilifeform: yes, but what stops me from maliciously countersigning coins
asciilifeform: Diablo-D3: the only coins you can shit on are those for which a Shitcoin bond has been issued to you. but it is true that you could do so maliciously. hence a certain amount of dirt would be seen as commonplace.
asciilifeform: but the idea is that "clean" coins would be worth more.
Diablo-D3: asciilifeform: hrm
Scrat: exfortuna: this might do http://blockexplorer.com/q/nethash
Diablo-D3: asciilifeform: it'd be interesting to have colored coins built into the system
Diablo-D3: for lots of purposes
Diablo-D3: like, company share trading
Scrat: csv, difficulty is 5th number
exfortuna: appreciate it :)
asciilifeform: at the time I wrote that, I was not yet 100% clear on how the block chain works. But now I know that Shitcoin could ride entirely on top of Bitcoin proper. You would store the necessary data as custom transactions (the way some people encode prayers into the blockchain.)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6550 @ 0.00068305 = 4.474 BTC [-]
Diablo-D3: asciilifeform: we'd need a limited form of this
Diablo-D3: where I send a tx to the network that says "these coins are shitcoined for the following users" and then list their public keys
Diablo-D3: asciilifeform: we'd need a new tx format
jurov: sorry for not reading it all but have a proposal for slavecoin
Diablo-D3: which isnt a big deal
asciilifeform: Diablo-D3: the idea is that a user has to sign a message with his key: "This coin can be shat on in the future, by anyone who can provide x such that F(x) = somenumber." He gives x to the bond holder(s).
asciilifeform: F is a trapdoor function.
Diablo-D3: asciilifeform: well, the way I'd code it is
asciilifeform: jurov: do tell.
jurov: encode a block asenglish text tobe submitted into peer-reviewed scientific journal
jurov: preferably resistant to sokal attack
Diablo-D3: send a tx that contains your signature like normal, but contains a list of addresses who can countersign it
asciilifeform: jurov: this just guarantees that every peer-reviewed journal will be subverted by SlaveCoiners eventually.
asciilifeform: jurov: the idea is that you need to pick a work function which remains hard even when a million people (some of whom with arbitrary pull) want it to be easy.
Diablo-D3: but the countersignature can ALSO be a normal tx
ThickAsThieves: this is what makes this channel great
asciilifeform: Diablo-D3: exactly that. this system would ride on top of Bitcoin proper. non-Shitcoin-enabled clients would function exactly as they do now.
Diablo-D3: asciilifeform: well, the thing with my idea is
Diablo-D3: lets say you have tagged coins
Diablo-D3: say, shares of a company
Diablo-D3: I can sign a sharecoin using the scripting stuff
Scrat: what can you measure slave PoW on?
Scrat: nikes per second?
Scrat: pyramids per year?
Scrat: hmm
Diablo-D3: "this coin will be send to user x if user x countersigns this tx with y dtc by block z"
asciilifeform: Scrat: see "CAPTCHA" as a (somewhat flawed) example.
Diablo-D3: and the client would automatically pop up requests to do so
asciilifeform: Diablo-D3: a Shitcoin that can result in moving coins is a terrible idea. Moral hazard for bond-holders.
Diablo-D3: asciilifeform: notice Im not using them for rep
asciilifeform: Diablo-D3: the wronged party needs to be able to deal damage to a scammer without benefiting himself.
Diablo-D3: Im using them for atomic ownership trnasferral
Diablo-D3: and then for sharecoins, I could query the client to see who owns shares
asciilifeform: Diablo-D3: AFAIK, anything where coins can move programmatically is incompatible with Bitcoin as we know it.
asciilifeform: Diablo-D3: this would have to be an alt-chain.
Diablo-D3: asciilifeform: of course, this is for DiabloCoin.
thestringpuller: Diablo-D3: whyyyyy'
thestringpuller: Diablo-D3: you are wasting so much time on hypotheticals
thestringpuller: this is ridiculous
thestringpuller: go build your server farm
Diablo-D3: thestringpuller: I juggle tasks.
Diablo-D3: seems to use my time more efficiently
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: maybe Satoshi should have waxed his car instead of dealing in weird hypotheticals, too.
ThickAsThieves: i want to learn more about this. more and more and more and more and more
asciilifeform: ThickAsThieves: which "this" ?
ThickAsThieves: i kid
ThickAsThieves: would prefer the channel get back on topic
ThickAsThieves: idea are cool
Diablo-D3: thestringpuller: Im not sure where you're getting hypotheticals though
ThickAsThieves: but its dominating
ThickAsThieves: cant we get back to oohhhing and ahhhing over gox price drop?
ThickAsThieves: ;;ticker
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 87.21000, Best ask: 88.00000, Bid-ask spread: 0.79000, Last trade: 88.00000, 24 hour volume: 164007.46365407, 24 hour low: 84.88000, 24 hour high: 109.99800, 24 hour vwap: 97.85507
mircea_popescu: this chatlog. it sucked.
ThickAsThieves: about to hit 85
mircea_popescu: poor mtgox
Diablo-D3: we'll hit $34k eventually
copumpkin: that's what you need it to be to reach your goal?
ThickAsThieves: i cant stand bots
copumpkin: I love me some bots
ThickAsThieves: i assume they cant be avoided
Diablo-D3: copumpkin: do, its global GDP / 21 million
ThickAsThieves: but i cant stand them
asciilifeform: everybody says that bots/HFT are a fact of life, but what if you have to solve a Sokoban (or other AI-complete nonsense) to move a coin...
mircea_popescu: the solution to hft is both simple and already implemented.
ThickAsThieves: whats that?
mircea_popescu: however, nyse & friends are very mtgox-y
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves minimum life for orders.
mircea_popescu: you put it on the book, can't cancel it for 1 second say.
ThickAsThieves: ah
ThickAsThieves: good one
Scrat: asciilifeform: then it will be delegated to chinese sweatshops
Scrat: like captchas are
ThickAsThieves: i just want the market to be a market
asciilifeform: that only kills one type of robotic trading (fake orders to move the market)
ThickAsThieves: of people wanting the asset
mircea_popescu: that's the only kind actually bad.
ThickAsThieves: not gaming it
ThickAsThieves: i guess i'm a hypocrite tho
ThickAsThieves: .00001 speculation is no different than 10000btc i guess.... i guess
asciilifeform: even if all trades had to "fill or kill" immediately, people will still whine about HFT and bots.
ThickAsThieves: its sorta like how i hate traffic cameras
ThickAsThieves: no representation
asciilifeform: because what they're ultimately whining about is "the race being to the swift."
mircea_popescu: there's no real advantage to being quick in a game of wits.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile, entrepreneurs : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=176234.msg1834958#msg1834958
exfortuna: >mfw trollcoin founder becomes millionaire
Scrat: mircea_popescu: you will eat your hat if this turns into the next google
Scrat: ok exfortuna you beat me to it
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if speed doesn't matter, why does anyone complain about "goxlag" ?
asciilifeform: (whenever I read the word "goxlag" I can't help but imagine a future Gulag for BTC users...)
mircea_popescu: lol
ThickAsThieves: speed matters in arb
mircea_popescu: different stories tho, asciilifeform.
mircea_popescu: if mtgox lag was subsecond (which is HUGELY laggy for an exchange) nobody'd complain
ThickAsThieves: i think mp just meant that in the scheme of things, betting small in high qty is no better than big in low qty
ThickAsThieves: but maybe i'm putting words in his mouth
ThickAsThieves: if you guess right you win either way
mircea_popescu: the idea is just that having a car that's 1ms faster wins you nasdaq, but on a well designed exchange having a bot that's 1ms faster wins you little if anything at all.
asciilifeform: the guy who has deterministic+fast access (say, Dr. Evil who runs Gox and controls the Lag Generator) presumably wins over those who are stuck talking to the business end of MtLag
mircea_popescu: this presumption is exactly what i'm attacking.
mircea_popescu: let me construct an analogy here.
mircea_popescu: romania is one of the eu members. it has always been a laggard. this was always decried as a huge disadvantage.
ThickAsThieves: includes a whore, go
mircea_popescu: now europe is going off a cliff, and the laggard is in the best position all things considering.
mircea_popescu: being very fast is not per se an advantage.
asciilifeform: ok, maybe lag only works to Dr. Evil's advantage if he uses it as a nice padded box in which to hide front-running.
mircea_popescu: executing very well is an advantage if you have a good strat. if you have a bad strat executing poorly is actually better
mircea_popescu: this is how bureaucracies survive : clueless but at least slow.
ThickAsThieves: i dont think either of your perspectives is totally relavant
mircea_popescu: possibly not. i think we're discussing very slightly different things
asciilifeform: I suspect, but cannot prove, that the people making the real money on BTC regardless of ups/downs are front-running exchanges.
mircea_popescu: this is not true.
mircea_popescu: mtgox frontruns to all shit and yet it lost its shirt
mircea_popescu: because they really thought stability is above 100
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as far as I can tell, its shirt is still on. and the operator is laughing all the way to the (fiat) bank.
mircea_popescu: orly ? and on what do you tell this ?
ThickAsThieves: did you see all that pizza he ate?
ThickAsThieves: :)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the damn thing is still online and trading, for one
mircea_popescu: by that approach that options site referenced earlier is "laughing all the way to the bank"
ThickAsThieves: mp do you ever laugh at the bank?
mircea_popescu: notrly.
ThickAsThieves: first sign of a bubble
mircea_popescu: lmao
ThickAsThieves: :)
asciilifeform: if the real purpose of MtGox is to bring in tons of chump money for the owner, then it is working great, even if it will soon be done serving its purpose.
ThickAsThieves: reports of gox's death are exaggerated
mircea_popescu: well you can always have an ex post facto definition of the purpose of an item that suits its actual history.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22650 @ 0.00068305 = 15.4711 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: go hit on a girl, she turns yhou down, you meant for her to turn you down all along. sure.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is more like, you do the 100,000th girl and your cock falls off from exceeding its MTBF.
mircea_popescu: hardly.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: at any rate, why are we burying MtGox again? who exactly is a serious contender for its throne?
mircea_popescu: nobody.
mircea_popescu: who is a serious contender for the exchange dollars to euros "throne" irl ?
Diablo-D3: no one
mircea_popescu: right. cause it's a side business of no particular value or import
mircea_popescu: unless you're in like iran or some other primitive economy.
asciilifeform: any lackey of the traditional banking system can trade USD for EUR, so it is unremarkable. but there appears to be a limited number of people with the balls and connections to run automated BTC/fiat exchanges.
mircea_popescu: notrly.
assbot: [BTCTC] [RSM] 2 @ 0.0018 = 0.0036 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: BTC-fiat trading might be a "winner take all" game, like cocaine cartels.
asciilifeform: the prize goes to whoever can suck in and spit out fiat with the smallest transaction cost.
mircea_popescu: it's not a game at all.
asciilifeform: (esp. if you include the cost of establishing reputation in said cost. otherwise my front door could be a top BTC exchange.)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.48 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: except they've established the worst reputation ever.
mircea_popescu: i don't see any value there.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nah, the worst reputation is just some random address you can send BTC or wire USD to from which nothing comes out again. MtGox is still a league above the rest, considering that this is what the rest is by default.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what, exactly, is the practical alternative to Gox right now? OTC, where one has to actually deal with humans? BTC-e, where BTC consistently traces <50USD vs. gox?
mircea_popescu: depends. there's no such thing as "an alternative". wjhat's the alternative to eating from the garbage ?
mircea_popescu: well... depends. italian restaurants if you like italian food
mircea_popescu: jewish delis if you're jewish
mircea_popescu: sure, garbage bins almost always have some food in them. i wouldn't call this a "brand"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: no alternative, if you're a rat. and right now most BTC users are more or less that.
mircea_popescu: well it also happens to not matter what the brand is among rats.
mircea_popescu: the fact that all users are currently that makes zero difference on this score.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: to run with the analogy, you should wonder why most of the non-rats are ignoring the Italian restaurant in favour of the garbage dump.
mircea_popescu: they are not.
mircea_popescu: i seriously don't know anyone who's neither a noob or an idiot seriously using mtgox.
mircea_popescu: sure, on ocasion. but fact remains most major players don't even have an account with them
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: so why is the life (and death) of MtGox a subject of interest to you?
mircea_popescu: because a. they keep making dumbass statements that then get fed into the dumbass press which make btc look like a scam
mircea_popescu: and b. because they back all sorts of dubious shit and are generally part of the axis of evil.
asciilifeform: if it doesn't matter what the rats do or think, why would MtGox's effect on the rat media matter?
mircea_popescu: look, everywhere there's going to be pest control.
mircea_popescu: this is not because rats matter.
mircea_popescu: it's precisely so they never do.
asciilifeform: "guard labour", yes
mircea_popescu: in a sense
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 1.422 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: to continue with the analogy, virtually all of the serious BTC people are "rat catchers." In that much of their winnings derive from the "stupid money" at the table - MtGox, people who buy BTC there because the TV said to, etc.
mircea_popescu: "guard labour" is a void notion pretty much. it stems from the ultimately doomed attempt of the intellectually bankrupt left to justify it's nonsense.
mircea_popescu: and no. the rich are not rich because they've stiolen from the poor, or from the stupid.
mircea_popescu: how did you end up so immersed in red ideology anyway ?
asciilifeform: stolen is the wrong word, when people are shoving money at you voluntarily
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.445 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: it's never a case of anything vaguely related.
mircea_popescu: money simply follows its own rules, and concentrates in adequate places.
mircea_popescu: rthe poor are poor because they are failed human beings, not for any other reason.
mircea_popescu: money can best be understood as the practical equivalent of the theological concept of "grace of god"
mircea_popescu: you don't have money... well it just means you suck.
asciilifeform: so why is the herd of morons pumping MtGox full of dollars such a bad thing?
mircea_popescu: that's not the bad thing.
mircea_popescu: mtgox doing such a horrible job of it is the bad thing.
asciilifeform: can't argue with that
Namworld: I use MtGox. Albeit not to daytrade, it's too damn slow for that.
Namworld: To exit BTC, waiting to buy back in.
asciilifeform: (AFAIK there's nothing "red" about the concept of guard labour. it is just the banal fact that you have to hire rat-catchers if your planet has rats, and this costs you something.)
Namworld: Involves waiting a few weeks, and I don't trust other exchanges enough to deposit there.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it is at the very least red because its only practical use is to try and give credence to this nonsense theory whereby inequality breeds stagnation through "waste".
mircea_popescu: whereas the only true measure of development is inequality,
mircea_popescu: and the only places not worth living into are those devoid of inequality.
asciilifeform: well yes, but all else being equal, you want the peasants to submit willingly, rather than hire people to pummel them (with gold that you could otherwise buy a second golden helicopter with.)
mircea_popescu: not the case.
mircea_popescu: the only practical way to educate the human being is through violence.
mircea_popescu: as long as you mean to enlighten you mean to beat.
mircea_popescu: this has nothing to do with protecting anything of yours.
asciilifeform: yes, but presumably the cost of administering more of a beating than is necessary for a full education is a net waste.
mircea_popescu: there is no such thing
mircea_popescu: education is purely a sexual process. what's this "more fucks than necessary" ?
mircea_popescu: the effort of fucking a pregnant woman (for instance) is in no way wasted.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fast-forward a decade. you run a kingdom. do you care to spend all of your time personally quashing revolts?
mircea_popescu: that's the motherfucking point of a kingdom.
mircea_popescu: people need a good answer as to why the fuck they're your subjects.
mircea_popescu: if this is too muich work for you time to retire.
mircea_popescu: trying to save on fucking ain't the way to go about marriage.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: seems like you were born a few 1000 years too late...
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: Rome needs you
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: i just happen to be able to fit more on my bus than the current fashion
mircea_popescu: in rome i'd have probably driven them up the wall with my globalist ideas.
asciilifeform: I think Rome could learn; "BitDenarius..."
mircea_popescu: lol.
mircea_popescu: but think about it : the old guard of the soviet republic, them people in their leather jackets
mircea_popescu: they're a form of expression of that state.
mircea_popescu: save on that ?! what sense does it make!
mircea_popescu: that's what you do! it's like asking van gogh to save on paint.
mircea_popescu: tell hemingway "could you rewrite this ? all the m's and w's use so much ink... try writing with more i's instead"
asciilifeform: actually, Stalin ramped up industry, the war machine, etc. by saving on the men in the leather jackets. (Most of the purging was of the old purging apparatus.) Resources are, unfortunately, finite.
mircea_popescu: this isn't even true.
mircea_popescu: what, leningrad was half purging apparatuses ?
mircea_popescu: he purged the very generals that won the war
mircea_popescu: late rome style.
mircea_popescu: and there's a reason the tinted windows tinted glasses douches in the us have infinite budgets atm. they are THE state.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: well yes.
mircea_popescu: or moreover this is what the state is, much like a supermodel is her tits and her waist
mircea_popescu: and her ankles and so forth
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: and what, you would let the successful generals live? so they can take your throne?
mircea_popescu: you misunderstand the relationship between the powerful and power.
mircea_popescu: i think the problem is something along these lines : young cock gets into night club, sees successful local mobster with the three girls dotting on him. figures this is a cool squarejaw, he's forcing these women to do such things.
mircea_popescu: no, he's not. most of his time is spent trtying to keep such women at bay.
mircea_popescu: these three are just there cause they;'re the least obnoxious of a sea of similar bitches in heat.
asciilifeform: consider Gen. Zhukov. Too popular, more or less un-purgeable. He had to be slowly demoted, transferred to the outskirts of the empire, finessed into oblivion. Or he would have gone for the throne, for sure.
mircea_popescu: just so with power. the powerful don't actively seek it. it seeks them.
mircea_popescu: nope.
mircea_popescu: nobody who endfs on the throne actually goes for the throne.
asciilifeform: yes, the throne finds you. everybody seems to say this.
asciilifeform: but in what sense is it true, if you plugged the four other contenders before it found you.
thestringpuller: ;;eightball does game of thrones come on tonight?
gribble: About as likely as pigs flying.
thestringpuller: XD
thestringpuller: this thing is pretty good
mircea_popescu: i never met stalin or jukov, but i can take an oath stalin only fucked jukov because jukov pissed him off.
thestringpuller: ;;seen jurov
gribble: jurov was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 hour, 10 minutes, and 7 seconds ago: <jurov> preferably resistant to sokal attack
asciilifeform: yes, but he pissed him off by being the successful square-jaw in the nightclub.
mircea_popescu: the only alternative is jukov got sick of the shit and weanted out.
asciilifeform: note that Stalin couldn't even ride a horse (Zhukov rode in the victory parade in his stead.)
mircea_popescu: there's just no way stalin went "omg must protect tyhrone"
mircea_popescu: i don't credit this very womanly approach to history.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you seem to think that the power game has one level (sexual/personal charisma.) But it really has two: the charismatic men rise to the top, and the winner ends up being the fellow who is quicker on the draw.
mircea_popescu: listen
mircea_popescu: you don't really want to kill the contenders.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7400 @ 0.00068305 = 5.0546 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: you'd rather burn the world and go have a drink with them.
mircea_popescu: you understand this ? nobody loves the wormy multitude enough to kill one good man over it.
asciilifeform: you don't plug your fellow top dogs for the wormy multitudes. you plug them so they don't - you. because there are only so many palaces/harems/etc. to go around.
mircea_popescu: nobody may be too strong a world, as insanity is a good bedfellow to exceptional performance
mircea_popescu: but still, generally speaking, nobody cares about the crowd.
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.849 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 8 @ 0.85 = 6.8 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1820 @ 0.00068305 = 1.2432 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 5 @ 0.8549 = 4.2745 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 0.855 = 1.71 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: the harem scarcity is bullshit. there's currently orders of magnitude more slaves looking for masters than masters willing to take slaves.
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 0.855 = 2.565 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 5 @ 0.859 = 4.295 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: the crowd is irrelevant, except that it does seem to have a tendency to throw its support behind one guy.
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 0.86 = 1.72 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 6 @ 0.876 = 5.256 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: the fate of the triumvirate, etc.
mircea_popescu: the fate of the triumvirate was that pompey despised caesar.
mircea_popescu: public don't enter into it one whit.
asciilifeform: the public (for some value of public) is who eventually swings the swords. and they would rather duke it out, with one guy coming out on top, rather than pressuring Pompey to be chums with Caesar.
mircea_popescu: i don;'t think they cared either way and in the end i don't think they fought for that either.
mircea_popescu: people always fight for some unrelated nonsense.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: let's re-phrase the question a bit: who would you personally be content to share your throne with?
mircea_popescu: pretty much anyone that's not stupid.
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.876 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: stable shared thrones is probably why Red China outlasted the USSR. but China is a bureaucratic clusterfuck rather than the virile fucktopia you envision.
mircea_popescu: okay, so who sat on the spartan throne ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: point. but I'm not certain it would scale.
mircea_popescu: because why not ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the ancients were a different kind of animal from us. they had notions of aristocracy/future-oriented behavour. vs. the tinted window crowd, for whom "I plug the other guy -> get double the gold" is the order of the day.
mircea_popescu: so basically the old folks are too cool for us to wear their shoes ?
mircea_popescu: heck of an argument you got thar.
asciilifeform: possibly.
mircea_popescu: i don't feel particularly lamer than them so.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: perhaps you're not. but the fellows behind the tinted windows, are.
mircea_popescu: "get double the gold" da fuck is that. to do what, carry it luis de funes style ?
mircea_popescu: get moar gold but can't throw a party cause there's nobody to invite.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: maybe the very definition of being an aristocrat is that you don't feel compelled to plug the other guys.
asciilifeform: see "mandate of heaven."
mircea_popescu: perhaps. it does come out a rather vulgar thing as reduced by our conversation.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, plugging the other guy has the virtue of keeping this putative aristocracy from complacency
asciilifeform: yes, but you do it for jollies/education-of-the-masses-by-the-cock, not because you feel that you have to.
mircea_popescu: perhaps you just do it because it becomes clear the guy's a fuckwit.
asciilifeform: you have a point in that analysis is vulgarizing. hence "the spartan speaks with his sword."
mircea_popescu: maybe go the whole japanese mile and have him cut his own guts out
asciilifeform: Seppuku is a bad example: the men ordered to do so generally faced the alternative of being beheaded like commoners (not to be confused with voluntary seppuku.)
asciilifeform: a better example: Hassan-i Sabbah
asciilifeform: or the Chinese emperor (forget which) who would order his front ranks to behead themselves on the start of a battle
asciilifeform: terrifying the enemy
mircea_popescu: incidentally, you ever seen l'avare ?
asciilifeform: nope
mircea_popescu: a, that's a pity. probably the best thing tyo come out of france
mircea_popescu: magnet:?xt=urn:btih:50c6b7a7b42d136d1dc1bc600220ba7c30e46f4d&dn=L'Avare+(1980)(L+de+Funes)DVDRip+NL+subs[Divx]NLtoppers&tr=udp://tracker.openbittorrent.com:80&tr=udp://tracker.publicbt.com:80&tr=udp://tracker.istole.it:6969&tr=udp://tracker.ccc.de:80
asciilifeform: will look
asciilifeform: but yes, if you can successfully order the front ranks to self-behead, you've probably got the Mandate of Heaven.
mircea_popescu: anyway, not so sure sepukku is such a bad example. you have one chance to do yourself in as one of us now that you can't continue living as one of us.
mircea_popescu: i don't think that implication works.
asciilifeform: well it matters, of course, if the front rank is a thousand blue blood knights, or three bums you've collected from a boozing den.
mircea_popescu: no, my objection is that form is no substitute for function.
mircea_popescu: what people do is no proof of what people are, in this sense.
mircea_popescu: getting a girl to suck your cock is no proof you're loved.
thestringpuller: wow
thestringpuller: did I really just come back to "getting a girl to suck your cock is no proof you're loved.
thestringpuller: "
asciilifeform: but if she sucks with art and enthusiasm, perhaps that's all the proof one could hope for. Think Kamikazes instead of Chinese imperial auto-beheaders.
thestringpuller: look at you mircea_popescu droppin' some love wisdom and shit on deez homies
asciilifeform: did you know that only the men with top marks in flight school were initially accepted into the Tokkotai (Kamikaze corps) ?
mircea_popescu: yes, i did.
asciilifeform: so were they sucking with love?
mircea_popescu: even so. the subtle structure of the world remains inacessible. even if the girl does it with enthusiasm and art.
asciilifeform: this subtle structure would appear to be hidden from king and slave alike.
mircea_popescu: kinda how the entire scholar profession developped.
mircea_popescu: the pretense of the "educated" to access it is as fraudulent in today's cathedral as it was in the druid circle obviously.
asciilifeform: the scholar profession (vs scholarship per se) is really just embroidery on the fabric of society, like the palace mural-painting profession.
mircea_popescu: maybe.
mircea_popescu: moreover, the original branch where we got lost is the proving.
mircea_popescu: there's no proof you have the mandate of heaven. nopr can ever be.
asciilifeform: true. and you do, until you don't.
asciilifeform: but I still think the abstraction is a useful one.
mircea_popescu: depends on the purpose.
mircea_popescu: global warming is a useful "abstraction" if you're using it to get a dumbass neighbour to stop smoking out your pool.
asciilifeform: reminds me of a tale where Chinese peasants, shortly after the red victory, calmed down upon hearing that the Emperor has returned.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 646 @ 0.00068305 = 0.4413 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 904 @ 0.00068262 = 0.6171 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: this hidden-ness and the lack of systematic solutions are exactly why the "virile fucktopia" is the only solution.
mircea_popescu: whether it scales or not will decide how large a community can get, not whether it will be the norm or not.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: I am interested in the question of virile fucktopias because I am interested in "the science of the possible." that is, "the is" vs. the idiot "the ought" that most scholarship tends to be about.
mircea_popescu: i imagined.
assbot: [BTCTC] [RSM] 1 @ 0.0018 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 1 @ 1.214 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: just watched a few min of mtv video awards, wow that channel really fell apart huh?
mircea_popescu: ya, sometime in 1998
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 0.875 = 2.625 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 0.876 = 1.752 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19800 @ 0.00068262 = 13.5159 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1 @ 0.004 BTC [+]
mod6: $vwap s.dice
mpexbot: mod6: S.DICE 1 day: average: 0.00328089 high: 0.004 low: 0.00328066 volume: 3177 btc: 10.42337616 7 day: average: 0.00299325 high: 0.00409999 low: 0.0027 volume: 281669 btc: 843.10495586 30 day: average: 0.00348657 high: 0.005598 low: 0.0027 volume: 1860301 btc: 6486.07287801
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 25 @ 0.00067 = 0.0168 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 5 @ 0.00067 = 0.0034 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 50 @ 0.000675 = 0.0338 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 110 @ 0.000689 = 0.0758 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.876 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 5 @ 0.879 = 4.395 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 5 @ 0.8796 = 4.398 BTC [+]
thestringpuller: !ticker m S.MPOE
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00068262 / 0.00069523 / 0.0007217 (538731 shares, 374.54 BTC), 7D: 0.00063322 / 0.00069588 / 0.000735 (2714177 shares, 1,888.76 BTC), 30D: 0.00059218 / 0.00068885 / 0.00077505 (10960684 shares, 7,550.28 BTC)
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 17 @ 0.8797 = 14.9549 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 5 @ 0.899 = 4.495 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.89998 BTC [+]
thestringpuller: $vwap MPOE
mpexbot: thestringpuller: S.MPOE 1 day: average: 0.00069523 high: 0.0007217 low: 0.00068262 volume: 538731 btc: 374.54423445 7 day: average: 0.00069589 high: 0.000735 low: 0.00063322 volume: 2714177 btc: 1888.76003405 30 day: average: 0.00068885 high: 0.00077505 low: 0.00059218 volume: 10960684 btc: 7550.28122564
thestringpuller: $bids MPOE
thestringpuller: $help
mpexbot: thestringpuller: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.
thestringpuller: $help all
mpexbot: thestringpuller: Error: There is no command "all".
thestringpuller: $help bids
mpexbot: thestringpuller: Error: There is no command "bids".
thestringpuller: $help bid
mpexbot: thestringpuller: Error: There is no command "bid".
mircea_popescu: $depth s.mpoe
mpexbot: mircea_popescu: S.MPOE Bids: ['5422 @ 0.00068649', '4896 @ 0.00068262', '9165 @ 0.00067807', '22800 @ 0.00067644', '32500 @ 0.00067461']
mpexbot: mircea_popescu: Asks: ['12133 @ 0.00069049', '10000 @ 0.0007008', '3910 @ 0.00070089', '23100 @ 0.00070285', '1250 @ 0.00070788']
thestringpuller: ;;ticker
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 95.40118, Best ask: 95.95998, Bid-ask spread: 0.55880, Last trade: 95.48019, 24 hour volume: 156646.71403264, 24 hour low: 84.43689, 24 hour high: 109.99800, 24 hour vwap: 97.19479
ThickAsThieves: no action on gox
ThickAsThieves: odd
ThickAsThieves: calm before the storm?
mircea_popescu: calm before death.
ThickAsThieves: i think it might be trading, but not reporting
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 1 @ 0.01 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.84 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: ;;nethash
gribble: 62414.5078831
ThickAsThieves: still falling
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 3 @ 0.00345 = 0.0104 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 1 @ 0.00343 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 1 @ 0.00321 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 3 @ 0.00321 = 0.0096 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 1 @ 0.0032 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 41 @ 0.00312 = 0.1279 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 29 @ 0.2 = 5.8 BTC [+]
taub: updated by OneFixt
mircea_popescu: what is ?
MJR_: ;;next
gribble: rising to 105-108 | targets: 108, 110-113, 120, 130, 138-148, 160 | updated by OneFixt at Apr 15 2013, 7:45 UTC ( tips: http://bit.ly/YnxUM4 ) | disclaimer: http://bit.ly/129bYJ6 | this is not investment or trading advice | 1 hour, 49 minutes, and 43 seconds ago
MJR_: that
mircea_popescu: a a
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 13 @ 0.89999 = 11.6999 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 5 @ 0.01 = 0.05 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2430 @ 0.00068597 = 1.6669 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11598 @ 0.0006933 = 8.0409 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 2 @ 1.2139 = 2.4278 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [RSM] 20 @ 0.0018 = 0.036 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 45 @ 0.000689 = 0.031 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9300 @ 0.0006933 = 6.4477 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 852 @ 0.0006933 = 0.5907 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1548 @ 0.0007037 = 1.0893 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.485 BTC [+]
bitesak: ;;ticker
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 96.72000, Best ask: 97.77700, Bid-ask spread: 1.05700, Last trade: 96.72000, 24 hour volume: 142297.15764338, 24 hour low: 84.43689, 24 hour high: 105.40000, 24 hour vwap: 95.29939
error4733: ;;eightball will btc reach 150$ this week ?
gribble: No.
error4733: ;;eightball will btc reach 50$ this week ?
gribble: Obviously.
mircea_popescu: amusingly, gribble's kinda better than max keiser.
error4733: hahaha
error4733: i wish have like 100btc for fun to play with gribble
error4733: asking every morning and buy/sell
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.84 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: so sell your car.
error4733: what can i do with 12btc ?
mircea_popescu: so do with 12 btc
mircea_popescu: you saidf you wanted 100 lol
error4733: yes but if i sold my car i thinks i get 12bt haha
mircea_popescu: lol
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3052 @ 0.0007037 = 2.1477 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3948 @ 0.00070473 = 2.7823 BTC [+]
Framedragger: punkman is a rather choice pseudonym /OT
punkman: it is? I'm not a big fan
Framedragger: it simply sounds nice on one's tongue, is all
pgp: prediction for today?
taub: 75-120 :/
pgp: overall trend, though?
taub: range
Framedragger: and i'm trying to trade goods over coin, it hurts the brain
pgp: ;;bids 75
gribble: There are currently 36500.533 bitcoins demanded at or over 75.0 USD, worth 3094909.86845 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0053 seconds
pgp: ;;asks 125
gribble: There are currently 35059.129 bitcoins offered at or under 125.0 USD, worth 3926457.98079 USD in total. | Data vintage: 3.9841 seconds
mircea_popescu: maybe idiots behave and we have a nice slope going to 130 till summer.
pgp: idiots - not in their nature to behave...
pgp: anyway - I think short-term trend is lower myself... need to retest bottom
pgp: ;;eightball will we retest bottom?
gribble: I doubt it very much.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11300 @ 0.00069569 = 7.8613 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: :p
pgp: ;;next
gribble: watching for another drop to 90s, then rising to 105-108 | targets: 108, 110-113, 120, 130, 138-148, 160 | updated by OneFixt at Apr 15 2013, 10:47 UTC ( tips: http://bit.ly/YnxUM4 ) | disclaimer: http://bit.ly/129bYJ6 | this is not investment or trading advice | #bitcoin-analysis | 51 minutes and 26 seconds ago
mircea_popescu: anyway. sure, retest bottom.
pgp: too bad puts are unavailable :-(
error4733: wtf is this :) ? free forecast ?
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 15 @ 0.01 = 0.15 BTC [+]
pgp: but then again MPEX exchange membership for $1000 USD would be reward enough...
mircea_popescu: haha something tells me people cringing at $7500 membership a week ago are still not running to get it at 60% discount
mircea_popescu: just so they can cringe when it's $500k+ in a year or two.
taub: just 10 coins now?
pgp: I like it at 60%, but I like it more at 85% off
mircea_popescu: taub nope, 30.
taub: i'd take one for 10 maybe
taub: :P
mircea_popescu: heh.
error4733: sold mine for 15 deal ?
mircea_popescu: i havce no idea why people represent this in terms of them buying something.
mircea_popescu: it's an exam. yet another of life's exams most fail to pass.
pgp: lol
error4733: 350$ was a bargain i knew it hehe
pgp: I think that model is correct.
mircea_popescu: when you go to get your degree you are basically paying a fee for this priviledge, equal to the value of your time you put into making the papers
mircea_popescu: (not the time spent learning, the time spent making the proofs that you'cve learned)
pgp: non-trivial up front fee for exchange membership (which should be limited to non-idiots), but also low marginal costs for trading...
mircea_popescu: yeh.
pgp: idiots go to members to trade, where fees get marked up but no upfront fee - it's how it work irl
mircea_popescu: and hopefulyl they get some sense/advice in the package.
pgp: not that MPEX isn't real life...
mircea_popescu: making it better for everyone involved.
pgp: yep
mircea_popescu: of course there's a lot of friction to the model, but
mircea_popescu: i think it shall prevail.
pgp: well, it could be marketed better...
mircea_popescu: perhaps.
unbalanced_: Agreed, I think you're just one $15 home page template away from being at the top of everyone's lists when it comes to BTC assets.
mircea_popescu: there is a problem of growthspeed which is not too well understood, especially not by the average (which is to say business illiterate) entrepreneur these days.
mircea_popescu: take the case of the twelve year old as an illustrative example.
mircea_popescu: the surest way for her NOT being a successful fotomodel at 19 is if her tits grow too fast.
unbalanced_: True, getting growth right is non-trivial.
mircea_popescu: stretchmarks are actually worse than no growth at all.
unbalanced_: Aw I said true before I knew we were going to sextown.
mircea_popescu: unbalanced_ everyone, as in, the people who took btc to 260 when i told them not to go over 130 ? why does one want this everyone muddling throuhg ?
mircea_popescu: unbalanced_ haha, does sextown bother you ?
taub: mpex has the highest volume in bitcoin stocks already doesnt it?
mircea_popescu: last i looked, yes.
mircea_popescu: even so i am more worried by things such as sdice going to 75 then to 29 for no apparent reason
mircea_popescu: than with growing market share.
unbalanced_: I want to see bitcoin and sophisticated discussion of BTC assets get more widespread. This channel is the best their is but cuts off half the population.
Bugpowder: sdice valuation was betting volume related
taub: why would price movement worry u
mircea_popescu: Bugpowder maybe, yeah.
Bugpowder: at .0075 it was undervalued
mircea_popescu: taub because volatility and investment are roughly speaking inversely correlated.
Bugpowder: when 20,000BTC profit per month
taub: never heard that before mp
mircea_popescu: let me illustrate this point, and i won't even use tits.
taub: i mean your job should be to run the exchange, not really worry about volatility
Bugpowder: S.DICE moves like a biotech
mircea_popescu: consider a town, and consider the mob moves in.
mircea_popescu: now, with the mob there comes sudden and striong social mobility, and also a bunch of murders.
mircea_popescu: in spite of it being mostly the mobsters who are getting murdered, it is the peasants who move out of the town, and the mobsters who move in.
unbalanced_: I respect the math/investment opinions, so I'm not going anywhere. I could just do without you playing to the mentality of teenage boys while you simultaneously express distaste for unsophisticated noobs (a high proportion of which are likely that same demographic).
mircea_popescu: huge volatility is exactly the same : in spite of the fact it mostly burns the speculators,
mircea_popescu: it is the investors it repels and the speculators it attracts.
mircea_popescu: unbalanced_ the sexual barrier is there to repel the unthinking adults, not to cater to the teenagers.
mircea_popescu: grosso modo if you're spending any part of your day in a place where you can't peruse porn you don't belong here anyway.
unbalanced_: Anywhoo, I'm saying I agree that MPEX is the biggest and the best game in town. I'd like more people to know about it and I think the site is not just unattractive, it prevents people from taking it seriously.
mircea_popescu: unbalanced_ why do you think that ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3000 @ 0.00069476 = 2.0843 BTC [-]
pgp: the public should be going to coinbr - not MPEX
mircea_popescu: Bugpowder i think perhaps you have a good point there, it does move like a biotech
mircea_popescu: maybe i'm overstating my herd concerns as personal bias.
Bugpowder: Oh look a whale is betting again with a big address = positive clinical trial result
mircea_popescu: or fda comment or w/e.
Bugpowder: yah
unbalanced_: As a motivated options trader actively looking for a solution to trade options on Bitcoin, it took me about a year and umpteen visits to mpex.co to grok it and get over the 1995 layout and titties and harsh attitude.
mircea_popescu: i was thinking more like irl mining
mircea_popescu: but it's all the same
unbalanced_: I totally respect the tech tho
unbalanced_: It's elegant, and well done.
Bugpowder: It's revenue stream is very very top heavy
Bugpowder: just like a biotech
mircea_popescu: or a gold mine etc.
Bugpowder: oh gold… 1400?
mircea_popescu: yeah.
Bugpowder: hmm
mircea_popescu: this in spite of the utah mine collapse.
mircea_popescu: i think they;'ve sold the cyprus gold on the market.
Bugpowder: yah I saw that pic
unbalanced_: I hate seeing these articles now where people are discussing plans for trading options on bitcoin and MPEX isn't even mentioned. That's all I'm getting at, let's get them to notice what you've built here.
Bugpowder: where do you think the bottom?
mircea_popescu: probably the best tiem to buy gold this year
mircea_popescu: unbalanced_ what articles be those ?
pgp: if it break 1350, look out below..
mircea_popescu: pgp it's funny but i think gold is doing a bitcoin.
pgp: lol
pgp: overtime, bticoin will get some of the money that people would otherwise invest in gold...
pgp: obviously
jcpham: fed shorting gold
mircea_popescu: i think over time it will get most.
mircea_popescu: anyway, unbalanced_, people (like for instance MtGox) were discussing plans to trade options on bitcoins back this time in 2011, and mpex wasn't even mentioned.
mircea_popescu: if it were something anyone could do i wouldn't even have bothered doing it myself.
mircea_popescu: the barrier to entry however is a lot higher than getting a bunch of people talking.
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.41 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 3 @ 0.36500015 = 1.095 BTC [+]
unbalanced_: mircea_popescu: finally found a link: http://siliconangle.com/blog/2013/04/11/coinsetter-the-newest-bitcoin-forex-seeks-a-niche-in-the-wild-market/
unbalanced_: "The New-York based startup seeks to bring to market advanced trading options that don’t exist in the current BTC market."
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.36500014 = 0.73 BTC [-]
ezdiy: options part is super easy
ezdiy: margin, on the other hand is super hard
unbalanced_: Coinsetter may never pull it off, they could be full of fail.
ezdiy: because you need cover collateral for slippage
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 1 @ 0.01 BTC [+]
ezdiy: margin calls are not 100%
unbalanced_: Meanwhile I think we'd all benefit from more liquidity and participants in MPEX.
ezdiy: how do i margin trade on mpex?
taub: mpex needs more users so it can start offering more competitive option prices
unbalanced_: I just want to broaden the base of MPEX users, I don't mean to be trollin'.
taub: right now it's lacking stupid investors
taub: thats why mp has to set option prices so high
ezdiy: anyone can issue options
taub: yea but nobody really bothers
ezdiy: as long they have capital to back it
taub: except mp
taub: and partly because of lack of users i'd imagine
ezdiy: taub: anyone except the exchange should issue options i think :)
ezdiy: in the long run, i think traditional forex instruments are not really aplicable to bitcoin
pgp: a lot of talk from coinsetter
ezdiy: and some new ones will have to be invented
jcpham: how will it not just turn into a bucket shop
jcpham: especially with the margin trading
ezdiy: yeah
jcpham: wouldn't that be the most profitable enterprise?
ezdiy: bucket shop is legit
ezdiy: IF youre transparent
pgp: the thing about the higher progile companies in america is that they need to be mindful of likely regulation.
ezdiy: if you have "magical unicorn engine"
ezdiy: thats totally not transparent
jcpham: you have a good point
pgp: coinsetter puts out all these press relesses about margin lending, which by the way, isn't rocket science...
ezdiy: some people think bucket shops are bad because it has no impact on actual market
ezdiy: wrong
ezdiy: people will try to manipulate price on mtgox
ezdiy: in favor of their option bets :)
pgp: but I'm not sure how they'll get around usuary laws in US...
taub: i'm not sure if it IS a buckt shop
taub: or just an actual exchange
pgp: max rate you can charge is 24%
pgp: margin goes for 10x that on bitfinex
taub: real trading runs on margin as well and isn't a bucketshop
ezdiy: taub: bucket shop means youre using spot price of different exchange than your own
jcpham: i kinda think if your position is large enough (on margin) and coinsetter can take advantage of it, it will
taub: i konw ezdiy
taub: is that what coinsetter wants to do?
ezdiy: no idea
jcpham: but mebbe thasa goos thing
ezdiy: there are strong laws in US against bucket shops
ezdiy: so i doubt it
ezdiy: they'll most likely run full exchange
taub: ah
taub: I thought this was about coinsetter ;)
ezdiy: (mpex is actually a bucket shop btw :)
mircea_popescu: unbalanced_ well... so silicon angle doesn't do research. i had no idea they existed.
jcpham: hahaha
mircea_popescu: that piece looks like it cost a hundred bux. im not quite into giving obscure venues money for this "service" yet.
ezdiy: though i think bucket shops are legit in .ro so no issue here
pgp: running a full exchange in US is a risky proposition, in my view
mircea_popescu: <ezdiy> how do i margin trade on mpex? << you apply for it.
mircea_popescu: you get it if you are high volume and trustworthy.
pgp: as well as acting as a broker to public
jcpham: free pokemon credits for everyone!
ezdiy: mircea_popescu: does not sound too open
mircea_popescu: <ezdiy> bucket shop is legit << mno.
ezdiy: mircea_popescu: but i guess you have a liquidity problem so you cant force liquidate positions
ezdiy: due to enormous slippage
mircea_popescu: pgp people like coinsetter are part of a lengthy tradition of dunning-kruger. the controlling example is one kludge, an out of work bank clerk who figured himself a banker
mircea_popescu: lost the house.
ezdiy: either way, you dont need trust to margin trade
ezdiy: just enough liquidity to have working margin calls
mircea_popescu: ezdiy no, it's designed specifically to keep people like you out actually.
ezdiy: huh?
mircea_popescu: you read me.
pgp: ezdiy: yes
mircea_popescu: clueless internet warriors who have definitive answers to things they read on wikipedia. i don't want to empower you folks.
mircea_popescu: you cock things up.
ezdiy: hehe
mircea_popescu: go get in the wot, spend a year or more making sense, trade many many thousands of btc on mpex
mircea_popescu: then maybe i'll margin you.
ezdiy: i see
jcpham: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/15/opinion/sunday/the-rise-of-the-new-groupthink.html
ezdiy: basically margin trading is loans
jcpham: loans are basically gifts
ezdiy: in here because there is no other way
jcpham: in bitcoinland
ezdiy: jcpham: supposedly not if you wot
jcpham: bullshit
jcpham: wot gets gamed also
jcpham: the people that borrow btc time and time again fail to repay
jcpham: regardless of reputation
ezdiy: well, apparently past reputation guarantees future reputation according to mircea_popescu
jcpham: mircea_popescu operates by his own made-up rules
jcpham: everyone is living in walled castles at this point
jcpham: don't loan your coins though for btc-only
mircea_popescu: ezdiy past reputation is the way to go.
Bugpowder: don't loan your coins
jcpham: you may never see it again. insert fiat clause
Bugpowder: ever ever ever
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5300 @ 0.00070473 = 3.7351 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: jcpham you know for the record i've not yet had problems with margined ppl.
jcpham: probably becuase your elitist attitude keeps away the trash?
jcpham: which is good
ezdiy: white trash means liquidity
mircea_popescu: does not.
ezdiy: look at mtgox compared to mpex
mircea_popescu: this is not fast food. nobody wants the poor.
mircea_popescu: there's a reason the concept of "underbanked" exists.
jcpham: i bet vetting people with a large fee to play has been successful
ezdiy: mircea_popescu: so let me get this straight
mircea_popescu: jcpham if you only deal with peopel who understand the value of reputation you're more likely to survive for sure.
mircea_popescu: consider the situation of a supermarket. if you open one in africa you will have a bunch of shoplifters.
mircea_popescu: if you open one in manhattan nobody's going to bother.
jcpham: did you just call the internet africa?
ezdiy: mircea_popescu: if someone gets you 1000BTC, and you'll hold it as a guarantee
jcpham: or is the bitcoin community africa?
ezdiy: mircea_popescu: then hes trusted?
mircea_popescu: jcpham the internet largely is africa, yes.
mircea_popescu: ezdiy nope.
jcpham: i can understand the referece
jcpham: lots of aids
mircea_popescu: lol
Bugpowder: mircea_popescu's margin loans are very different than most BTC loans though, in that it is an accounting that is kept on servers he controls. Thus, the receiver has little opportunity to steal the coins and walk. If you loan coins and that hits the receiver's personal wallet.dat, you are just praying they come back.
ezdiy: mircea_popescu: true, in case of 1KBTC i'd have my own doubts regarding your put-call parity :)
mircea_popescu: this is true, mpex margin is quite different from most loan ops.
jcpham: seems like the funds would stay internal
mircea_popescu: ezdiy you know, there have been 10k btc single orders on mpex.
jcpham: anyway to "steal them"
jcpham: blockchain steal?
jcpham: it isn't stolen until the blockchain says fuck you
unbalanced_: mircea_popescu: I concede. It's rude of me to walk into your house and criticize your wallpaper and the art on the walls.
unbalanced_: I just wanted MPEX to be more popular, but I get now that a) that
unbalanced_: is not necessarily a good thing, and
unbalanced_: b) it's growing exactly as fast as you want it to. If you want it to grow faster or slower, you know what to do better than I.
unbalanced_: New topic: the bot's option pricing algo. Is that a secret? Does it have to be?
mircea_popescu: unbalanced_ im not offended or anything
Bugpowder: Rule 23
Bugpowder: http://mpex.co/faq.html#23
jcpham: nah unbalanced_ he likes criticism
jcpham: loves it
mircea_popescu: i don't mind it, especialyl if it makes sense.
mircea_popescu: anyway. the bot's pricing algo is proprietary, yes. i don't see why it wouldn't be.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10417 @ 0.0006988 = 7.2794 BTC [-]
ezdiy: transparency ftw
ezdiy: hello bitcoinica :)
unbalanced_: Did the algo actually change mid-month, or did the spreads just widen due to volatility, still using the existing algo?
mircea_popescu: the algo didn't change.
mircea_popescu: the bot however went berserk basically.
mircea_popescu: mostly the drop triggered what looks more like safety than actual pricing assumptions
mircea_popescu: anyway, i'd love to stay and chat but i'm due in some meetings. we continue later.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 4 @ 1.2139 = 4.8556 BTC [-]
deadweasel_work: ;;next
gribble: watching for another drop to low 90s, then re-evaluating ask depth and targets | updated by OneFixt at Apr 15 2013, 10:47 UTC ( tips: http://bit.ly/YnxUM4 ) | disclaimer: http://bit.ly/129bYJ6 | this is not investment or trading advice | #bitcoin-analysis | 2 hours, 16 minutes, and 20 seconds ago
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58 @ 0.00070473 = 0.0409 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 3 @ 0.485 = 1.455 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1250 @ 0.00070788 = 0.8849 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4134 @ 0.00070848 = 2.9289 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5066 @ 0.00071 = 3.5969 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 36 @ 0.485 = 17.46 BTC [+]
lippoper1: ;;ticker
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 96.97801, Best ask: 96.99900, Bid-ask spread: 0.02099, Last trade: 96.97801, 24 hour volume: 139162.02515050, 24 hour low: 84.43689, 24 hour high: 102.00000, 24 hour vwap: 94.77353
lippoper1: ;;asks 0
gribble: There are currently 0 bitcoins offered at or under 0.0 USD, worth 0.0 USD in total. | Data vintage: 91.0591 seconds
lippoper1: ;;bids 0
gribble: There are currently 43723736 bitcoins demanded at or over 0.0 USD, worth 14483375.3202 USD in total. | Data vintage: 96.4113 seconds
lippoper1: ;;asks 9999999
gribble: There are currently 129652.19 bitcoins offered at or under 9999999.0 USD, worth 167037264.711 USD in total. | Data vintage: 117.6040 seconds
lippoper1: demand seems an all time high
lippoper1: ?
lippoper1: i kid :-)
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 451 @ 0.01 = 4.51 BTC [+]
lippoper1: going up some
lippoper1: ;;ticker
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 97.05008, Best ask: 97.59899, Bid-ask spread: 0.54891, Last trade: 97.05007, 24 hour volume: 139241.84612092, 24 hour low: 84.43689, 24 hour high: 102.00000, 24 hour vwap: 94.77476
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5542 @ 0.00070751 = 3.921 BTC [-]
jcpham: http://www.247btc.com/bitcoins/134/how-i-would-manipulate-the-bitcoin-exchange-market-and-how-a-discrete-double-auction-could-stop-me/
MJR_: bitcoinity looks prettier than usual
MJR_: is that just a simple moving average or a standard deviation?
MJR_: i guess its min/max value
lippoper1: yeah, it's the bid/ask range
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 5 @ 1.2139 = 6.0695 BTC [-]
jcpham: http://scarcecapital.com/hft/about.html
unbalanced_: jcpham, anyone: Do you think a double auction exchnage as in the 247btc.com link above would get traction?
jcpham: based on what has been hapopening at gox
jcpham: some form of implementation might get a lot of traction
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.845 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 9 @ 0.855 = 7.695 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4700 @ 0.00071 = 3.337 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.855 BTC [+]
taub: we believe that not only does high frequency trading not contribute to that purpose, but the way exchanges currently operate leaves the doors open for major manipulation.
taub: that's bs
taub: hft does contribute, but you can't even hft on any bitcoin exchaneg so i dont know why people keep bitching
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1150 @ 0.00071 = 0.8165 BTC [+]
Scrat: taub: what made me laugh is that in that "we are mtgox" reddit, a lot of people were like "please block the hft bots"
Scrat: so many clueless idiots
Scrat: apaprently hft is 0.1 trade per second with 400 ms gateway latency now
taub: yea...
ThickAsThieves: I think it's just semantics to most
troc: is it because they read http://www.nanex.net/Research/CQSCap/CQSCap.html ?
ThickAsThieves: generally against bots of any kind
ThickAsThieves: the actual frequency isn't the issue
Scrat: its pretty evident by now that the gox "engine" does a linear scan of all orders (lol) and that takes around a second
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.36500018 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.366 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 5 @ 1.66 = 8.3 BTC [-]
pgp: awfully quiet in here... and at mtgox...
ThickAsThieves: waiting
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3600 @ 0.00071 = 2.556 BTC [+]
BitHub: !help
assbot: List of commands:
assbot: !ticker <exchange> <ticker> (desc: returns current ticker values, supported: MPEX, HAVELOCK, BTCTCO) {short: !t}
assbot: !last <exchange> <ticker> (desc: returns last price value, supported: MPEX, HAVELOCK, BTCTCO) {short: !l}
assbot: !mp <signcrypted dpaste.com url> (desc: returns the response from MPEX order)
assbot: !rules <nick/chan> (desc: chan guidelines) {short: !r}
assbot: !exchanges <nick/chan> (desc: lists exchanges and brokers) {short: !e}
BitHub: !exchanges
taub: http://images.4chan.org/pol/src/1366037118988.png :D
taub: #nohomo
BitHub: !ticker
assbot: Ah, your hair. Your hair is soft. It's like a girl's. Now how do you get it that way?
BitHub: !mpex
BitHub: !ticker mpex
assbot: Your actions are useless.
Scrat: ^
BitHub: pos
BitHub: cant anyone just do a simple readable asset ticker?
BitHub: i'll pay
Namworld: ?
assbot: [BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 10 @ 0.2 = 2 BTC [+]
Namworld: I have my spreadsheet tools, should be able to fetch all data you need
Namworld: although the ticket thing ain't that hard to do
Namworld: !ticker MPEX S.DICE
assbot: [MPEX:S.DICE] 1D: 0.00328066 / 0.00328088 / 0.004 (3177 shares, 10.42 BTC), 7D: 0.0027 / 0.00299526 / 0.00409999 (274814 shares, 823.14 BTC), 30D: 0.0027 / 0.00345678 / 0.005598 (1827298 shares, 6,316.58 BTC)
BitHub: thanks nam
BitHub: i'll check it out
Namworld: !ticker HAVELOCK SDICE
assbot: [HAVELOCK:SDICE] 1D: 0.36500009 / 0.3928556 / 0.42700000 (18 shares, 7.07140088 BTC), 7D: 0.12500000 / 0.31864108 / 0.42700000 (2182 shares, 695.27483395 BTC), 30D: 0.12500000 / 0.37594388 / 0.56789999 (7613 shares, 2862.06078669 BTC)
Namworld: Easy, just a bit long to use
BitHub: why cant i just type !ticker Mpex and get a list of all the assets
Namworld: because it would put lots of stuff in the chat
troc: because that only works for mpex, others could cause a flood ?
Namworld: Use https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140427.0
BitHub: okey thanks
BitHub: i don't know why its not featured in #bitcoin-market but okey
Namworld: You can use the formulas to fetch data using the APIs of various exchanges
Namworld: on a google spreadsheet
BitHub: i need to check your site, its been a while :)
Namworld: my site? Which one?
BitHub: with teh alarm
Namworld: http://namcdn.com/btcalarm/
BitHub: feel like making one for me for .5btc? heh
BitHub: bbs
MJR_: i thought kakobrekla had a ticker service already?
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 10 @ 0.88 = 8.8 BTC [+]
error4733: ;;ticker m s.dice
gribble: (ticker [--bid|--ask|--last|--high|--low|--avg|--vol] [--currency XXX]) -- Return pretty-printed mtgox ticker. If one of the result options is given, returns only that numeric result (useful for nesting in calculations). If '--currency XXX' option is given, returns ticker for that three-letter currency code. It is up to you to make sure that the three letter code you enter is a valid (1 more message)
error4733: !ticker m s.dice
assbot: [MPEX:S.DICE] 1D: 0.00328066 / 0.00328088 / 0.004 (3177 shares, 10.42 BTC), 7D: 0.0027 / 0.00299526 / 0.00409999 (274814 shares, 823.14 BTC), 30D: 0.0027 / 0.00345678 / 0.005598 (1827298 shares, 6,316.58 BTC)
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.89998 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 1 @ 1.2139 BTC [-]
BitHub: heh
BitHub: where mjr_
BitHub: i checked the website but nothing
MJR_: not sure, that's what someone recommended to me before
BitHub: i need to track my portfolio
ThickAsThieves: ;;nethash
gribble: 63165.9465183
ThickAsThieves: ;;estimate
gribble: Next difficulty estimate | 8898397.1525 based on data since last change | 8824046.14459 based on data for last three days
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1600 @ 0.00070521 = 1.1283 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 1 @ 0.10179 BTC [+]
Namworld: [11:28] <BitHub> i need to track my portfolio
Namworld: Use my darn tools
BitHub: hehe okey
BitHub: link
BitHub: i'll send a tip
Namworld: I linked already
BitHub: ahh check going now
Namworld: [11:16] <Namworld> Use https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140427.0
BitHub: oh yeah i was just there
Namworld: Makes something like this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AvwwyRGyc1WgdGFKVlAtZVAzOGNqS1Brd05MUlFlT2c
Namworld: BitFunder needs manual updating tho, no API yet
Namworld: and MPEx sharecount too, as there's no API for accounts
Namworld: But prices for MPEx can update live at least
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 0.88 = 2.64 BTC [-]
Namworld: Other than that, it can track BTCT.co, Havelock, BTC address balances
Namworld: and also convert the whole BTC value to USD using MtGox weighted average
BitHub: yeah nam i wanted bf as well :(
Namworld: or whatever
Namworld: yeah, they should have an API soon
Namworld: But anyway, for now it still works nicely for most of a portfolio
BitHub: that's very cool man
BitHub: btc-bond is your asset yeh?
Namworld: yeah
pgp: volume in mkt is gone... REALLY quiet...
Namworld: yeah
Namworld: demand is gone... but most don't want to sell yet
Namworld: since price doesn't go up, I expect demand from speculators to drop and ones still holding to start selling as prices slowly go down
Namworld: and reach a bottom in a few months
BitHub: going to play with this nam, thanks i'll send you a tip when finished
Namworld: okay
pgp: yeah...
pgp: not a good sign... definately further to go down...
Bugpowder: Namworld: Yep... prices will hover for a few more days
Namworld: I could share the spreadsheet so you have make a copy, BitHub
Bugpowder: but as people lose hope... down it goes
Bugpowder: just like last time
Bugpowder: Bottom at $15-30
pgp: prolly
Namworld: I say 10-30 personally
Bugpowder: I don't see it getting under 15
Namworld: 10 with a rebound possibly
Namworld: for a short while
Bugpowder: it was really stable at 15 for a long time
Namworld: yeah
Scrat: ~40 for me, but wtf do I know
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1250 @ 0.0007054 = 0.8818 BTC [+]
Namworld: I'm sad I had most of my BTC value in my portfolio couldn't sell all at the top
Bugpowder: ;;calc 266/33*2
gribble: 16.1212121212
Namworld: still sold 100 at 250
Namworld: just before crash
pgp: $32-$35 imo
Namworld: and 100 more at $80 just after MtGox reopened
Bugpowder: top to bottom of the last crash, scaled for this crash says $16.12 is the bottom.
Namworld: I didn't manage to grab back some low BTCs in the 60s before it bounced back
Namworld: I wanted to resell at 100
Namworld: Well now I'm sitting out for a few weeks
Bugpowder: Gold down to $1355.
Namworld: O.o
pgp: fuck
Namworld: wow, that goes down fast...
Bugpowder: Silver $23
Namworld: ...
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 1.94 BTC [+]
Bugpowder: Sold my sprint on the pop this morning @ 7.29
pgp: 1376 right now
Bugpowder: was in at 2.53 on that one
Bugpowder: I just can't think of any asset class that is undervalued right now
pgp: i agree
Bugpowder: maybe european stocks and some US realestate
pgp: FED bubble
pgp: it will end in tears
Bugpowder: Krugman bubble
Bugpowder: It will pop and Krugman will say we didn't print enough
pgp: krugman is a douche bag
pgp: you know, i always thought it strange that as a journalist/writer, he won the nobel for economics, which is almost exclusively awarded to academic types...
pgp: so now he banks on that credential from his left wing bully pulpit and it annoys the crap out of me...
Bugpowder: http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=VGTSX+Interactive#symbol=vgtsx;range=20070518,20130415;compare=%5Egspc;indicator=volume;charttype=area;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined;
Bugpowder: VGTSX looks undervalued relative to SPY
pgp: from that chart, perhaps
pgp: problem is world is slowing down, but apparently US is doing fine...
MJR_: yeah krugman is a retard
MJR_: The growth of the Internet will slow drastically, as the flaw in "Metcalfe's law"–which states that the number of potential connections in a network is proportional to the square of the number of participants–becomes apparent: most people have nothing to say to each other! By 2005 or so, it will become clear that the Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax
MJR_: machine's.
MJR_: ^^^why he doesn't get bitcoin
MJR_: As the rate of technological change in computing slows, the number of jobs for IT specialists will decelerate, then actually turn down; ten years from now, the phrase information economy will sound silly.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 3 @ 0.38579 = 1.1574 BTC [+]
Namworld: Before, people bought locally. Now, they buy more on the web. It shifted customers/services around. And I think mostly consolidated a few large companies, but that's just an impression I have. I'd need data to back it =/
taub: Krugman doesn't know shit, he still belives the broken window fallacy
MJR_: yes
taub: so I'm happy he is against bitcoin
MJR_: he hasn't actually done anything much of value...he hasn't produced much
taub: he's one of those types who openly says war is good for the economy etc
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.47 BTC [-]
MJR_: well...we do have north korea just begging for it
MJR_: and there is always iran
MJR_: who doesn't admit that afghanistan is getting old...
MJR_: JK
BitHub: i think alot of people still buy locally
BitHub: but i've noticed when there's a huge dip they'll hit the websites straight away because its quicker
BitHub: better off throwing yourself into the mainstream and charging 20% comissions
deadweasel_work: ;;ticker
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 95.38000, Best ask: 95.49999, Bid-ask spread: 0.11999, Last trade: 95.38000, 24 hour volume: 140456.92501169, 24 hour low: 84.43689, 24 hour high: 102.00000, 24 hour vwap: 94.65965
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4300 @ 0.0007054 = 3.0332 BTC [+]
SterlingArcher: hi
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 0.888 = 2.664 BTC [+]
deadweasel_work: http://www.change.org/petitions/u-s-congress-shut-down-guantanamo-bay-prison-once-and-for-all-2
deadweasel_work: pls sign
bitesak: ;;ticker
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 95.22101, Best ask: 95.92000, Bid-ask spread: 0.69899, Last trade: 95.92000, 24 hour volume: 140774.22839093, 24 hour low: 84.43689, 24 hour high: 102.00000, 24 hour vwap: 94.64984
pgp: mt gox is like watching paint dry...
bitesak: ;;next
gribble: watching for another drop to low 90s, then re-evaluating ask depth and targets | updated by OneFixt at Apr 15 2013, 10:47 UTC ( tips: http://bit.ly/YnxUM4 ) | disclaimer: http://bit.ly/129bYJ6 | this is not investment or trading advice | #bitcoin-analysis | 5 hours, 45 minutes, and 30 seconds ago
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 17 @ 0.888 = 15.096 BTC [+]
pgp: finally, a little movement
Bugpowder: shit
jborkl: I did it, dont get too excited
Bugpowder: it is going to sell off before I can dump the rest of my coins.
pgp: yep
jborkl: beat you to it
pgp: sell, sell, sell!
pgp: markets taken a beating, too
pgp: LONG overdue selloff in US equity markets..
jborkl: wow -gold down to 1300's
jborkl: silver 23
jborkl: lol, usagi silver etf
ll: !t h him
assbot: [HAVELOCK:HIM] 1D: 1.42200000 / 1.74224 / 1.95000000 (50 shares, 87.11200000 BTC), 7D: 0.75000001 / 1.43097842 / 1.95000000 (329 shares, 470.79190011 BTC), 30D: 0.75000001 / 1.69665608 / 2.08000000 (822 shares, 1394.65130041 BTC)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7489 @ 0.0007054 = 5.2827 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.48 BTC [+]
deadweasel_work: ;;nodes
gribble: Error: "nodes" is not a valid command.
deadweasel_work: gribble, go learn something new.
deadweasel_work: ;;ticker
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 93.97329, Best ask: 94.00000, Bid-ask spread: 0.02671, Last trade: 94.00000, 24 hour volume: 143971.50098586, 24 hour low: 84.43689, 24 hour high: 102.00000, 24 hour vwap: 94.53419
deadweasel_work: ;;bids 99
gribble: There are currently 0 bitcoins demanded at or over 99.0 USD, worth 0.0 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0042 seconds
Bugpowder: time to crash the market
jborkl: do it
pgp: I want cheap coin!
Bugpowder: i did my best
jborkl: it is breaking support and the chart looks sickly
pgp: agreed.. rolling over...
splnkr: just spread around this disinformative article http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/15/opinion/krugman-the-antisocial-network.html
Bugpowder: someone else needs to take over from here
Bugpowder: I am totally out of coins.
jborkl: if we get below 85 then I expect lower from here
pgp: once 92 drops it'll fall quickly to 80's
jborkl: massive dumping trades
jborkl: Bugpowder was that you?
Namworld: you had ~ 4000 BTC?
Bugpowder: no comment
jborkl: Lol, just let me know right before you rebuy
Bugpowder: I was part of it
Bugpowder: not all of it
Bugpowder: oh shit
Namworld: I'm jelly now
Bugpowder: ask wall at 92 now
topace: 92 wall all gone
Namworld: If I had my whole porftolio value in BTC available to sell at 250
Namworld: I'd have over 150k USD =/
jcpham: no comment
jcpham: also $250 not enough
Namworld: yes, 250 is enough
pgp: here we go!
jcpham: i may have bought some $180 coins during that fiasco
jcpham: and i may have sold them at $260
jcpham: can't confirm
Scrat: <90
jborkl: going going gone..
pgp: 85.44 is 24h low
pizzaman1337: ;;ticker
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 89.01167, Best ask: 89.16000, Bid-ask spread: 0.14833, Last trade: 89.16000, 24 hour volume: 155047.46636155, 24 hour low: 84.43689, 24 hour high: 102.00000, 24 hour vwap: 94.29122
topace: so weird, i always expect monday the price to go up based on our volume on canadianbitcoins
pgp: wtf?
Chilca: Hi Simon__
Simon__: hi
pgp: lot's of spoofing going in this market, methinks...
jborkl: have you seen how the mpex bot is pricing put/call
pgp: puts > 1BTC you mean?
pgp: caveat emptor!
Bugpowder: calls > 1BTC
Bugpowder: even worse!
jborkl: 95 c .44 95 put 2.36
pgp: not all calls, only some... ALL puts > 1
pgp: infinite vol
Bugpowder: bot doesn't want customers
pgp: bond holders want too high of a return
pgp: bot licking wounds...
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.455 = 0.91 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.45 = 0.9 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.45 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 4 @ 0.8725 = 3.49 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 6 @ 0.865 = 5.19 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5800 @ 0.00070521 = 4.0902 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.865 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.8602 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.8602 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 5 @ 0.86 = 4.3 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 0.857 = 1.714 BTC [-]
nbvmcvbn: hi
nbvmcvbn: anyone here?
deadweasel_work: no
Scrat: no
deadweasel_work: oh, he quit already
deadweasel_work: no time to even be a jerk
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2150 @ 0.00070521 = 1.5162 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4047 @ 0.0006988 = 2.828 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 1 @ 0.00428 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 7 @ 0.00428 = 0.03 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 10 @ 0.888 = 8.88 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.88998 BTC [+]
bitesak: ;;ticker
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 90.12101, Best ask: 90.88899, Bid-ask spread: 0.76798, Last trade: 90.88900, 24 hour volume: 160856.43420830, 24 hour low: 84.43689, 24 hour high: 102.00000, 24 hour vwap: 94.03216
bitesak: ;;next
gribble: expecting to test 95.5, then to test 100 if 95.5 breaks| updated by OneFixt at Apr 15 2013, 17:49 UTC ( tips: http://bit.ly/YnxUM4 ) | disclaimer: http://bit.ly/129bYJ6 | this is not investment or trading advice | #bitcoin-analysis | 27 minutes and 45 seconds ago
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.46 BTC [+]
thestringpuller: ;;ticker
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 91.19000, Best ask: 91.49999, Bid-ask spread: 0.30999, Last trade: 91.50000, 24 hour volume: 161115.30989828, 24 hour low: 84.43689, 24 hour high: 102.00000, 24 hour vwap: 94.02022
thestringpuller: ;;seen smickles
gribble: smickles was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 week, 4 days, 2 hours, 43 minutes, and 4 seconds ago: <smickles> a bitcoin atm could be the easiest way to send money to a friend, each of you just goes to an atm
thestringpuller: ;;next
gribble: expecting to test 95.5, then to test 100 if 95.5 breaks| updated by OneFixt at Apr 15 2013, 17:49 UTC ( tips: http://bit.ly/YnxUM4 ) | disclaimer: http://bit.ly/129bYJ6 | this is not investment or trading advice | #bitcoin-analysis | 36 minutes and 50 seconds ago
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 3 @ 0.36600002 = 1.098 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 9 @ 0.36600001 = 3.294 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.36600001 BTC [-]
deadweasel_work: ;;ticker
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 90.99998, Best ask: 91.49999, Bid-ask spread: 0.50001, Last trade: 91.50000, 24 hour volume: 161606.23154635, 24 hour low: 84.43689, 24 hour high: 102.00000, 24 hour vwap: 93.99775
tk993: -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
tk993: Version: OpenPGP.js v.1.20130228
tk993: Comment: http://openpgpjs.org
tk993: xo0EUWxD+gEEAOCBC/1kcm8O+r68a0TF/utKMa8DM7aLbjn8LTDYFOoWbFeN
tk993: fawlsI9g0GY9XFbnbtDspu/SeQIJ4LSU0i2PmW7Wk6NAG9NK8LLD1xyQyhvv
tk993: zr7vMEzh/RTQ+gRE70rwG5dDtfv90ns3TLD+bUS7dv7DRNkxqrDaSPIlUt8t
tk993: ZLGZABEBAAHNH1R5bGVyIEFiZW5zIDxUQ0FiZW5zQGdtYWlsLmNvbT7CnAQQ
tk993: AQIAEAUCUWxD+gkQeozgH8i9jjcAAKKFBACQWYk1NDmDwEcGuAlF3n1SzwI/
tk993: NRFwdc2Q0NMsPbg8e6AyM9DnfgURYVN/ljFYy3plMBy+CJ31h22A8i/pktbz
tk993: X1yWiaYHNpXsPliPef9nDI5kBo7tsURktDrEy1xe52DaMH7ClNDgW1OnqFVX
punkman: doing it wrong
tk993: wrong window, sorry
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.366 = 0.732 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 10 @ 0.36600003 = 3.66 BTC [+]
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 92.50003, Best ask: 93.00000, Bid-ask spread: 0.49997, Last trade: 93.00000, 24 hour volume: 163163.82299830, 24 hour low: 84.43689, 24 hour high: 102.00000, 24 hour vwap: 93.94272
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.8899 BTC [-]
punkman: http://www.vrijspreker.nl/wp/wp-content/media/2013/04/zilver_slave_queen_base_zgw-505x505.jpg
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.88999 BTC [+]
gribble: MtGox lag is 0.550961 seconds. During this time, light travels 0.00110411967513 AU. You could have sent a bitcoin to the other side of the Earth, along the surface (0.0001339 AU).
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2111 @ 0.0007054 = 1.4891 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9498 @ 0.00071 = 6.7436 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 11 @ 0.89 = 9.79 BTC [+]
thestringpuller: ;;asks 99
gribble: There are currently 9498.067 bitcoins offered at or under 99.0 USD, worth 920456.340518 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0033 seconds
thestringpuller: ;;bids 90
gribble: There are currently 1588.4914 bitcoins demanded at or over 90.0 USD, worth 143371.686688 USD in total. | Data vintage: 11.5109 seconds
thestringpuller: ;;bids 80
gribble: There are currently 28364.908 bitcoins demanded at or over 80.0 USD, worth 2402240.82237 USD in total. | Data vintage: 17.5698 seconds
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3052 @ 0.0006988 = 2.1327 BTC [-]
error4733: haha https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=171723.msg1786279#msg1786279
Bugpowder: ;;bids 0
gribble: There are currently 43699603 bitcoins demanded at or over 0.0 USD, worth 14291166.8035 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0084 seconds
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 0.89 = 2.67 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.88999 BTC [-]
jcpham: http://turtle.dereferenced.org/~nenolod/linode/linode-abridged.txt
jcpham: interesting read
Bugpowder: SP500 -33.5
Bugpowder: big move
jcpham: boston bomb scare now too
jcpham: how do bomb scares effect markets?
pgp: wow VIX up 40% today
error4733: !last h vix
assbot: Shit. You ain't even old enough to smoke.
error4733: !last h vtx
assbot: Last trade for VTX on HAVELOCK was at 0.46 BTC [+]
pgp: 16.60 last.. 12.01 friday close
pgp: S&P volatily index...
Bugpowder: damn... I think my sister is running boston.
Bugpowder: maybe that is next year
Bugpowder: I better check.
Bugpowder: 7 blocks in 10 minutes?!?
jborkl: wow yep
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 5 @ 0.89 = 4.45 BTC [+]
MJR_: sup everybody
kakobrekla: alt chains
kakobrekla: apparently
MJR_: gold, silver and bitcoins are down
MJR_: what is the world coming to?
kakobrekla: alt coins are up
MJR_: lol
MJR_: ltc broke $4?
kakobrekla: i havent been paying close attention just got the word, no numbers included
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.41 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6800 @ 0.00069917 = 4.7544 BTC [+]
Bugpowder: nah just .0028
Bugpowder: .028
Bugpowder: EVERYTHING IS TANKING
assbot: [BTCTC] [GOLD] 4 @ 0.138 = 0.552 BTC [+]
MJR_: http://c.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/business-living/2013/apr/14/google-car-3d-printing-and-bitcoin-great-innovatio/
MJR_: great article
assbot: [BTCTC] [GOLD] 1 @ 0.138 BTC [+]
MJR_: http://bitcoinmagazine.com/bitcoin-is-not-antisocial-a-rebuttal-to-paul-krugman/
MJR_: and this one was like poetry to my ears
Bugpowder: 88
assbot: [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 1 @ 0.10179 BTC [+]
MJR_: whats new Bugpowder, you got any altcoins going?
Bugpowder: no I am totaly out of bitcoins
Bugpowder: except for some physical
Bugpowder: sold the last 25% this morning at 94
Bugpowder: triggered a big fish to dump 8k
MJR_: ah
MJR_: you have puts?
Bugpowder: no
Scrat: tanking on a monday... I guess it really is fulfilling the prophecy
Bugpowder: too expensive
MJR_: but also i was asking about altcoins
Bugpowder: yes
Bugpowder: I have no altcoins
MJR_: oh
MJR_: so you are completely back to fiat?
Bugpowder: except for 40 physical BTC
MJR_: well that is still pretty nice
Scrat: he is preparing for the next hype cycle :p
MJR_: hehehe
MJR_: i don't know
MJR_: i think things are going to get more stable
MJR_: and we will see a lot better sites out there
MJR_: slow steady growth back to 200
MJR_: thats what i expect for the rest of 2013
pgp: wrong
Bugpowder_: I think we fade from here
pgp: retest lows
Bugpowder_: i am a buyer for a quick flip at 52
Bugpowder_: and for long term at 32, 26, 21, 16, 13, 11
pgp: there will be significant bounces on the way down, but down we must go
Bugpowder_: My coins were from $2.65 on the last bottom
Bugpowder_: If you want the 100x return, you need to be near the bottom
ThickAsThieves: that BFL link is pretty good
ThickAsThieves: lol
Scrat: stability is very much needed
Scrat: im not a big merchant or anything but when the price is stable I get 10 times more payments
Bugpowder_: when you start seeing the post-mortem articles on the rise fall rise and final death of bitcoin, THAT'S when you buy.
Bugpowder_: I bought my coins the day this article came out. http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/11/mf_bitcoin/
TomServo: Jumping in late here, what happened that makes you guys think you'll see $11 again?
Bugpowder_: plus or minus a few days, I don't really remember
Bugpowder_: TomServo: The bubble popped?
Bugpowder_: I don't think we will see 11
Bugpowder_: I think 16-32 is the likely bottom
Bugpowder_: but if we see 11, I'll buy 10,000BTC.
Bugpowder_: Well.... maybe 5000
pgp: lol
TomServo: Man, I forget that the fall from 32 to 5ish took several months.
unbalanced: Cripes just saw the news... if anyone's in Boston hope you and yours are okay.
pgp: I think 32ish, the old high, lots of resistence getting through it - i think it'll represent significant support.
Bugpowder_: TomServo: http://i.imgur.com/fZwy3xd.png
Bugpowder_: 32 feels like the right valuation
Bugpowder_: 15 felt right, before the bubble
Bugpowder_: there will be plenty of infrastructure growth till then
Bugpowder_: err, since then
Bugpowder_: so 32. But often there is undershoot when a bubble pops
Bugpowder_: so I'm hoping to pick some up cheaper
Bugpowder_: 87.5
pizzaman1337: ;;ticker
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 87.51100, Best ask: 87.51101, Bid-ask spread: 0.00001, Last trade: 87.50000, 24 hour volume: 163207.51950014, 24 hour low: 84.43689, 24 hour high: 102.00000, 24 hour vwap: 93.43970
pgp: we'll see - i also think that bottom formation has a lot to do with velocity
Bugpowder_: we need total capitulation
Bugpowder_: Then I will pounce.
pgp: mee too
pgp: but it'll be hard to do when gox breaks again - lol
Bugpowder_: man, if today was the top on the SP500 too, tiberiusiv's gloating is going to be so fucking annoying.
thestringpuller: ;;next
gribble: expecting to test 93, then to test 98 if 93 breaks, then testing 100 and targetting 103-105 | updated by OneFixt at Apr 15 2013, 18:43 UTC ( tips: http://bit.ly/YnxUM4 ) | disclaimer: http://bit.ly/129bYJ6 | this is not investment or trading advice | #bitcoin-analysis | 1 hour, 35 minutes, and 20 seconds ago
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1950 @ 0.00069917 = 1.3634 BTC [+]
thestringpuller: Bugpowder_: S&P is down
thestringpuller: so is DOW
pgp: what's his deal anyway? very aggressive on chat...
Bugpowder_: thestringpuller: yes I know
Bugpowder_: I bought some international stock funds today
thestringpuller: ;;ticker
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 87.52001, Best ask: 87.99999, Bid-ask spread: 0.47998, Last trade: 88.00000, 24 hour volume: 163150.78113255, 24 hour low: 84.43689, 24 hour high: 102.00000, 24 hour vwap: 93.41196
Bugpowder_: at the close
thestringpuller: ;;bids 80
gribble: There are currently 20414.097 bitcoins demanded at or over 80.0 USD, worth 1703773.20849 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0046 seconds
thestringpuller: ;;asks 100
gribble: There are currently 20556.668 bitcoins offered at or under 100.0 USD, worth 1988149.39395 USD in total. | Data vintage: 8.0104 seconds
thestringpuller: ;;bc,24hprc
gribble: 93.36
ThickAsThieves: at what price does mining difficulty start to go down?
thestringpuller: ?
pgp: 20?
ThickAsThieves: where miners start unplugging
pgp: 15?
pgp: less?
Scrat: if you look at '11
pgp: i suppose it all about marginal electricity at that point, unless you're renting your mining hardware...
Scrat: it took some time
Scrat: and now with asics it's going to be even less pronounced
Scrat: because noone will be unplugging them
ThickAsThieves: i guess if avalon was thinking about not selling to the public anymore, this seals that deal
pgp: chart not looking so good... I think it starts to accellerate here...
jborkl: 86
jborkl: and i predict this is where mtgox starts lagging out for the rest of the day
ThickAsThieves: I predict no notable lag
deadweasel: is it safe to keep fiat at bitfloor?
ThickAsThieves: if you have to ask!
jborkl: lol at the sells
deadweasel: i know they got hacked for fiat in sept... but it's not like you can just magically get cash into an exchange when you need it.
pgp: deadweasal: i think so
deadweasel: is there a better way to handle the fiat@exchange problem?
pgp: they we hacked for BTC
deadweasel: so fiat was untouched, because it's digital and traceable?
pgp: really hard to steal fiat - period...
Scrat: deadweasel: well, banks will insure you for unauthorized transactions
pgp: fraudulant transactions can be reversed
pizzaman1337: ;;ticker
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 85.50001, Best ask: 85.70000, Bid-ask spread: 0.19999, Last trade: 85.70000, 24 hour volume: 165090.90853723, 24 hour low: 84.43689, 24 hour high: 102.00000, 24 hour vwap: 93.14763
deadweasel: yeah, alright. I won't be wiped out if someone takes my cash, but i'd prefer not. thx for the input.
deadweasel: btw, anybody know what exactly exploded at the boston marathon today?
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.89 BTC [+]
pgp: c'mon 85!
ThickAsThieves: not much known yeat deadweasel, two bombs in buildings by finish line, more possible lame bombs found
ThickAsThieves: up to 50 inured
ThickAsThieves: at least 3 dead
ThickAsThieves: 2
deadweasel: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BH6fwFvCUAA-PWb.jpg
deadweasel: http://live.reuters.com/Event/Boston_Marathon_Explosion <--- horrible number of scripts on this page
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 986 @ 0.00071 = 0.7001 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3564 @ 0.00071073 = 2.533 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1 @ 0.004 BTC [+]
Bugpowder_: ;;bids 0
gribble: There are currently 43609509 bitcoins demanded at or over 0.0 USD, worth 13193804.0522 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0088 seconds
Bugpowder_: ;;asks 9999999999999
gribble: There are currently 160834.57 bitcoins offered at or under 1e+13 USD, worth 1.41067200249e+13 USD in total. | Data vintage: 3.4524 seconds
thestringpuller: lololol
Bugpowder_: its over
thestringpuller: ;;ticker
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 86.46109, Best ask: 86.68000, Bid-ask spread: 0.21891, Last trade: 86.68000, 24 hour volume: 167132.72055536, 24 hour low: 84.43689, 24 hour high: 102.00000, 24 hour vwap: 92.82566
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 2 @ 1.22 = 2.44 BTC [+]
thestringpuller: whats over?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1000 @ 0.00409989 = 4.0999 BTC [+]
thestringpuller: the bubble?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1500 @ 0.00409991 = 6.1499 BTC [+]
thestringpuller: ;;asks 95
gribble: There are currently 11596.617 bitcoins offered at or under 95.0 USD, worth 1061084.76118 USD in total. | Data vintage: 75.6159 seconds
Bugpowder_: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsx2vdn7gpY
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 1000 @ 0.00409995 = 4.1 BTC [+]
thestringpuller: i dony have youtube
Bugpowder_: S.DICE could be a good buy now
Bugpowder_: clearly the bounce is being front run a bit
thestringpuller: ;;ticker
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 86.24000, Best ask: 86.34999, Bid-ask spread: 0.10999, Last trade: 86.35000, 24 hour volume: 167118.49060236, 24 hour low: 84.43689, 24 hour high: 102.00000, 24 hour vwap: 92.82210
kakobrekla: im down for a fire and a couple of songs
Bugpowder_: lol
thestringpuller: more buyers are on the way though
Bugpowder_: yeah
Bugpowder_: just like this morning
pgp: dunno about that
Bugpowder_: when the bounce didn't happen
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.37 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: also apropriate to listen while charts http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoBFhdeR9PE
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 1544 @ 0.003734 = 5.7653 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 54 @ 0.00392 = 0.2117 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 1007 @ 0.004 = 4.028 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 106 @ 0.004 = 0.424 BTC [+]
thestringpuller: dude btc is hella surviving...
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.37 = 0.74 BTC [+]
jborkl: 83
pgp: 85 gone
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8750 @ 0.00071199 = 6.2299 BTC [+]
pgp: 24h low
Bugpowder: 48 hour low
thestringpuller: ;;next
gribble: expecting to test 93, then to test 98 if 93 breaks, then testing 100 and targetting 103-105 | updated by OneFixt at Apr 15 2013, 18:43 UTC ( tips: http://bit.ly/YnxUM4 ) | disclaimer: http://bit.ly/129bYJ6 | this is not investment or trading advice | #bitcoin-analysis | 2 hours, 16 minutes, and 16 seconds ago
pgp: lag-a-licious
Bugpowder: dude that guy is an idiot
thestringpuller: ;;goxlag
gribble: MtGox lag is 0.18639 seconds. During this time, light travels 0.000373523473074 AU. You could have sent a bitcoin to the other side of the Earth, along the surface (0.0001339 AU).
Bugpowder: 85 went down
thestringpuller: ;;bids 80
gribble: There are currently 12461.383 bitcoins demanded at or over 80.0 USD, worth 1025539.32766 USD in total. | Data vintage: 16.3550 seconds
Bugpowder: we are going DOWN
thestringpuller: keep on sellin the.