269600+ entries in 0.176s
mircea_popescu: now,
to be perfectly clear, i'm not either accusing or suspecting x guy of
this, chiefly because i don't imagine he has
the resources. nevertheless, phf's objection is much harder
to reject
than superficially appears.
phf: Framedragger: i was young and a bum, i recognized all
these people because my entertainment machine would reinforce
their presence for me. "oh jwz is
talking. oh now it's ptacek. oh it's paul graham! squee". but
they were always in a different category from say norvig or knuth or naggum. once i started doing and learning (i.e. painfully read knuth, rather
than just have him on my shelf) i finally was able
to grok
the difference.
☟︎☟︎ mircea_popescu: that works, EXCEPT you already
tune
things out because... IT IS
TOO NOISY
mircea_popescu: Framedragger yes, it is unknowable. but
the naive defense of
the person first contemplating
this issue is "oh,
this is
too noise, i'd hear about it"
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: uh
that was a question, more like
mircea_popescu: this is ~half of
the usg "national security" plan, except
they suck at both modelling and implementation.
☟︎ Framedragger: mircea_popescu:
the point is
that whether
the difference is from
this kind of
tree ordering,
this is unknowable..
mircea_popescu: and
this is just
the first step. nothing forces your identities
to keep playing ; you can retire
them at any point you wish, and now you have a stable of "never wrong over n binary questions" respectables.
mircea_popescu: where's
the difference from ? and if it were
this, who'd know ?
mircea_popescu: what we ALSO know for a fact is
that
the count of people actually active on facebook last year (~10mn) is deeply dwarfed by
the number of facebook accounts (>1bn).
mircea_popescu: for an observer,
these being unlinked,
there's "genius" identity 10111010001 which answered correctly
to
that many binary questions in a row.
mircea_popescu: consider
the proper model for
this : let
there be an unknown endless list of binary questions. you create an endless list of identities, which you publish, 2^(n+1)-1 for
the nth question. unknown
to anyone but you,
they are linked in a
tree (ie, you know in advance identity 10111010101 will answer "yes"
to q1 no
to q2 yes
to q 3-5 etc).
Framedragger: phf: i'm curious, what was it
that made you
to originally regard
tptacek highly? was it his words/discussions (and
then later you decided
that it's
the only stuff
that
the man has actually produced - a fair point i guess, if you dismiss
the crypto challenges, for example)?
mircea_popescu: people generally misunderstand
the extreme power of
the fuzzing attack.
mircea_popescu: understgand
that
the a/b split-scam scheme
there discussed can do
this with ~identities~
too. just create a
tree of
them.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: "the sequel - was almost wholly free of mathematics, and replete with 'best practice because my arse
thusly spoke' crapolade." << okay,
that's sad, and an educational case
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: i mean.. i agree; i just don't agree
that
tptacek fits
the category. sure,
there are analogies, but
then
there exist analogies with mircea_popescu,
too.
mircea_popescu: this is a "business model", and in
the shit
the us is
these days, it's actually a "premium" business model : establish "authority" of
the purely wordy sort,
then pivot.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: (just ftr i don't
think
too much of bruce, either)
Framedragger: phf: so you don't regard matasano crypto challenges as anything worthy,
then?
mircea_popescu: copies work well for
the past, but who can copy
the future...
mircea_popescu: "i could be mp, i read all he wrote" "and if
tomorrow mizdra lands with an alien submarine, what will you say as mp ?
this hasn't happened in
the past ALREADY, for you
to life
the quote"
phf: just because he happens
to say right words, doesn't mean
that he's right.
mircea_popescu: on one hand you have people with
the fixed part "disagreeing", who dress it up as
they dress it ; on
the other, you have
the people with
the fixed dress, who call "their position" as
they may call it.
these are very different, and
the latter's easily disqualified.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: yes, okay,
that... is bullshit, lol.
phf: mircea_popescu speaks from experience, of
things
that he have practiced. even mpoe-pr's rants were using internal mpoe practices as a model for argument. it's not clear
that ptacek has any kind of similar standing, because we don't know what he did. he argues for best practices, which he could've as easily picked up from reading others. compare
to, say, djb, who, when speaks about security, uses his extensive qmail (etc.) experience as
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: agree re no intrinsic value, incidentally.
this does not nullify
there being possible
to distinguish valuable writing from shit writing, *within a framework of meaning*
that we can all agree on.
mircea_popescu: "everyone who disagrees is usg stooge" <<<
this is not
the criterion. everyone who dresses his "position", which
they don't even call disagreeing, IN
THE SAME COLORED PANTS, evidently shops at
the same shop. you see ?
Framedragger: asciilifeform: one *could* maintain
that
there was no interesting finding for someone who
trusts gpg import policy. and yes, a fool is he who
trusts gpg; but a charitable interpretation of such an opinion is possible
mircea_popescu: Framedragger
the reply isn't "this serves
tmsr's purposes", but moreover,
the reply is
that he's in charge of his own household, and if he is making a mistake it'll hurt... him. and if
the other made a mistake, evidently it'll hurt...
the other.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: ... "everyone who disagrees is usg stooge" is
the vibe i'm getting; impossible
to have an actual conversation
then
Framedragger: asciilifeform: look i won't fault you for pre-forming an opinion on
tptacek and not spending your valuable
time re-evaluating it. but such heuristic lumping of people into
two camps is rather crude indeed. i know someone may reply "this serves
tmsr's purposes well anyway, so what of it" - well, okay..
Framedragger: asciilifeform: i claim
that one can post actually valuable stuff, seen by other people; and one can post shit, and
these categories can be distinguished.
mircea_popescu: damn. poor Framedragger ,
that "pure world, biaseless, untainted by rooting in authority" is crumbling so fast ;/
Framedragger: phf: yes,
true, i know, but for some mp is "person who wrote lots of important
text"
Framedragger: phf: bashing and critique of shitty crypto projects, calling out
their authors (see discussions between
tptacek and kaepora or however
the other dood's nick is spelled) -
they're a valuable public service
phf: Framedragger:
that's not
the only
thing mp does
though
phf: so in other words he posts
to hackernews a lot
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: yeah, i mean,
the dude
thomas p
tacek is, at least
Framedragger: phf: matasano crypto challenges and
the new crypto ctf
thing he and others did (i didn't
try it) are a great public service; i mean
the challenges start simple in
the beginning but if one followed
them
to
the end, actual reading of recent crypto papers would be required etc.; surely
that counts as something? he didn't pioneer anything in crypto, sure.
mircea_popescu: phf in fairness, digging
too deep into english space "authority" is never well advised.
trump
turns into "guy who ~squandered inheritance" for eg.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: yeah
that is fair,
too,
though i maintain
that anyone using any such implementation is an irrevocable shithead and phuctor won't do
them much good anyway - but maybe it will, i don't know; and phuctor is a needed public service anyway (so i'm not arguing against
that, ftr)
mircea_popescu: this disregard of
the cockroach births register can't possibly be a criticism of me.
phf: mircea_popescu: ptacek is a "security expert" and founder of a security company matasano. he posts a lot
to hackernews, and is regarded as authority. a simple question "what did ptacek actually did" usually doesn't produce any answers
though
mircea_popescu: except from my pov i dun actually care
to distinguish
the cockroaches
to
the point of naming
them
Framedragger: mircea_popescu:
this
then is a critique of sks keyservers, strictly.
there was a
thread on
their ML,
they rejected
the idea of rejecting such subkeys (...)
a111: Logged on 2016-08-16 21:27 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you
take an inch from enemy, but give him many more:
mircea_popescu: yes, we're adjusting
the meaning of rsa-crypto
to explicitly not care, as discussed yest. but
this is novel.
phf: "could've checked" is
the moto of reddit generation
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: okay, fair point,
then. i should have checked. (maybe i will, out of curiosity / concern). not
that i have *too* much faith in gpg, sure
mircea_popescu: Framedragger suppose i do
that, and i get a message from a woman who
thinks i'm him, and
take her out
to coffee and she brings me seven children over
thirty years.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: oh i won't argue with
that! well, of course. but say i
took your pubkey and generated a subkey for it and uploaded
that subkey (it wouldn't import into gpg). would you
truly care?
phf: mircea_popescu: in orcland, we have game, we put colored pants on people, and let
them be our heroes.
their pants distinguish
their status in hierarchy
☟︎ mircea_popescu: maybe alf's mp-generator dun work
too well, but lo and behold - my phf-parser dun work half as much!
Framedragger: import subkeys with no valid self-sig? or am i misreading what is stated in
the article? because
to me
those statements (in
the broader context) are rendered into
that meaning precisely.
phf: Framedragger: i regarded ptacek very highly at some point, but can you point
to something
that ptacek/matasano did?
mircea_popescu: the one
true advantage of irc as we have it is
that well... nobody's hanging on
this
thread.
Framedragger: (i'm sorry for being slow here, multitasking with
too many
tabs)
mircea_popescu: because my recollection is, me/alf/phuctor made some very careful statements, pinoy restated
them wronglyt and proceeded
to win
the war with
the strawmen.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: apologies if i am mistaken here, but iirc phuctor was reported
to have cracked some pgp keys when at
that point in
time none of
the keys cracked had valid self-sigs.
the presentation from
tmsr (trilema/phuctor)
to me appeared
to have overstated
the results, so
to speak. (but
then later subkeys with valid selfsigs were found, iirc).
this isn't a
technical point, i suppose.
mircea_popescu: (other
than in a discussion with
the sort of imbecile
typified
today by hasimir, i dunno either of us gives half a shit.)
☟︎ mircea_popescu: (on
the sub-subject of "defending
the power of phuctor's results" << it is entirely reactive. just as doctor defending
the power of sanitation. in some contexts it's
the only
thing a doctor can say - and he can be rendered "ridiculous" by insisting on presenting him in
that context, but really,
the joke's on
the unwashed.)
mircea_popescu: there's
two classes composing
the support
there. one,
the wider, is plain idiots, of
the us business major sort.
the other, however, hopes
to be saved from some darkness within or i dunno wtf.
mircea_popescu: i perceive
the following problem : in my (rightful) bashing of idiocies (allinged around "colored coins", "dao" etc,
that jazz) i distinctly hear
the crushed hopes of people who look at
those as a refuge from something else, specifically. i suspect it's hwqat you call "anarchists"
☟︎ Framedragger: as in, any claims
to
the contrary (of
the power of
those results) are attacked with such force
that it hints at some kind of defensiveness; but perhaps
this is precisely what it means
to have a political position.
Framedragger: there is a danger of one presupposing
the veracity of
their own's
truths, but
this isn't exactly an original
thought or anything; just, well, i *do* observe yourself and alf defending
the power of phuctor's results almost a priori as it were;
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: hm. no. but i'm not mature enough for
this discussion (you may say), e.g. i still harbour ideas about anarchism etc.