log☇︎
173100+ entries in 0.862s
mircea_popescu: including the silver money lobby in us and so on.
asciilifeform: rather than eulora-like closes planet
mircea_popescu: this is observably true, in history : the proposition that "it's a great idea to live above your means" was the proximate cause of "french revolution" and every other socialist attack on money hence ☟︎
asciilifeform: i read the original uci proposal as straight weapon of us vs them
asciilifeform: ( very overdue forest fire, at that )
mircea_popescu: the proposition that we'd end up with a sort of uci-as-nsa and l1-as-subtstitute-for-dnc is very much the proposition that, "you know what ? inca also corrupts" ☟︎
asciilifeform: could describe both as having run an ill-conceived winblowz, originally, that bsoded in the end in the same way
mircea_popescu: and this is my point here : yes, bitcoin corrupts. i mean specific things by this term of art, they're in the logs.
mircea_popescu: well, at time t they each purport to run a software. at time t1, they observably both run the same software. some patching went on. who ?
asciilifeform: from whose pov is either 'corrupted', other than hypothetical pantsuit priest's ?
mircea_popescu: so. who is corrupting who ? how do you tell ~early~ ?
mircea_popescu: maybe he finally marries. girl does a little bit of wearing push up bras for a year or so... and then for the rest of their natural lives they tvkids.
mircea_popescu: has she been corrupted ? perhaps. maybe, if she is turned from the "normal direction" of cooking-kids-tv into being an out and out slut, she has been corrupted.
asciilifeform: i.e. where market re-prices the faux-carpenter as pork on the hoof per pound ?
mircea_popescu: so, suppose a greatly respected dom dood hangs out by the highschool, and soft talks a girl studying there into coming along to the bdsm club.
mircea_popescu: corruption is that act whereby software is patched.
mircea_popescu: so then, let's examine corruption.
mircea_popescu: women find themselves caught up in the usual sad position their lot ends caught up in : they're stuck bridging reality and male nonsense.
mircea_popescu: it is also the sad truth of biology that almost none actually are.
mircea_popescu: ok. now, it is the oft unspoken but nevertheless common self flattery of all males that they are "doms" or "masters" whatever.
mircea_popescu: we on the page so far ?
mircea_popescu: so : there obviously is such a thing as "mainstream society". people meet, get married, have kids watch tv whatever. there ALSO is such a thing as "a bdsm community".
asciilifeform: trinque: this is where i will admit that your argument is making 0 sense to me
mircea_popescu: let us take a very lengthy detour if you'll indulge me.
trinque: the imaginary observer before whom the whole UCI topology sits, with equal results for all-comers
mircea_popescu: i dunno that i have a definition, but the afore-the-fact grates.
asciilifeform: what'd be the definition of the inca here ?
mircea_popescu: and who the fuck is corrupting who here!
mircea_popescu: well if l1 ends up as a skirt to hide inca into that'd be one sad fucking outcome.
mircea_popescu: that's why the original lordship discussion says "it's not an argument that these are the best, we don't care who's the best. these -- are."
mircea_popescu: yes, because you have in your head a rigid model of a specific thing. but you see, l1 is not defined afore the fact. l1 is WHAT EMERGES from this process, whatever it may be.
asciilifeform: it was how i read the original trilema article re subj
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is a broken model.
asciilifeform: trinque: approx, but with 'l1 key holders' rather than inca
trinque: so I'll pay them to do more
trinque: rather than here I sit, I paid some nodes to do work, turned out the output was useful to me
asciilifeform: just as no diff bw a tennis ball and moon
asciilifeform: to a topologist - maybe none
trinque: asciilifeform: sounds like you're thinking of UCI as one giant virtual machine atop which godman inca runs his programs
mircea_popescu: what the hell is the difference supposed to be. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: if i ask the owner of machine A to write me a bubblesort or write abada on his tits or whatever ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: wiring some reichsmarks takes 5min of work
mircea_popescu: what, that they happened over freenode rather than over gossipd ? that the latter is "not properly uci" ?
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 15:19 mircea_popescu: and entirely unrelatedly : anyone willing to stand up an irc bot for me (as a service for hire deal) and expose some kind of programmable interface that can read messages to it, process and push out a reply ? bonus points if i don't have to learn crazy-shitstick-"$modernlanguage".
a111: Logged on 2017-06-15 15:16 mircea_popescu: aaand in other news, who wants to wire 2.5k for me ?
mircea_popescu: and while we ponder this : what is the difference in your estimation between http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-15#1670731 and http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598150 ? ☝︎☝︎☟︎
trinque: markets appear to solve it.
asciilifeform: this is a mega-problem -- an entire field went to the grave because it was not able to solve it.
asciilifeform: (i.e., on what do you compute, such that only MOST mutations are lethal, rather than ALL )
asciilifeform: think of it as the ~opposite~ problem to mircea_popescu's hash func.
asciilifeform: because unlearns faster than learns. ☟︎☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: ( even if nn is used today -- it is in fact used very sparingly, and in combination with other algos , rather than as universal engine as originally envisioned )
asciilifeform: this was what minsky was trying to achieve with neural network. failed.
asciilifeform: describe a model of computation that is 1) usefully complete -- can carry out actual work 2) is substantially non-brittle - i.e. flipping 20% of the bits results in something that is only, say, 20% away from, but still recognizable as the original performer, rather than liquishit
mircea_popescu: what are you suggesting i try ?
asciilifeform: fwiw cured me of 'this great unsolved problem is merely a small misconception everyone in the field merely happened to suffer from'
asciilifeform: what can i say, do try it
mircea_popescu: i hold this is a sore misperception.
asciilifeform: brittleness is in fact the reason why nobody's made 'evolved' code do much of ~anything interesting to date
mircea_popescu: there's less optionality in nature. if you need a GABA, you will use... GABA. that's it. most software problems of comparable complexity allow multiple solutions.
asciilifeform: ( this is called 'brittleness' by aficionados of 'meat-like machinery' ) ☟︎
asciilifeform: far more narrow in the world of the artificial.
mircea_popescu: (by spaces i mean spaces of possibilities, you can write any succession of letters but can't make any molecule you need work the way you'd expect)
asciilifeform: or the evolution of 'hiv2' etc
asciilifeform: this is reminiscent of the old virulence debate re ebola etc - 'why are there not moar ebolas'
asciilifeform: if you use infected idiots, you're stuck explaining what's to keep'em from reinstalling winblows + patch against whatever door you walked in through.
mircea_popescu: windows will either compete with tmsr or go away. if it competes -- it becomes. if it goes away -- it becomes. there is no choice and there is no will. ☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: so - willingly crafted boxes, then
mircea_popescu: back to the topic : the idea is to have properly arranged owned boxes. this will include gossipd as a basis, uci on top of that if the OWNer opts to, bitcoind on top of that likely, a devenv, whatever.
asciilifeform: that nobody knows how to make it +ev.
asciilifeform: that was my argument against the entire uci thing, recall
asciilifeform: ( formatting hdd, that is. doesn't )
mircea_popescu: i need his two dollars like i need his girlfriend.
asciilifeform: however this does not buy you the use of the victim's willingly paid electric bill.
mircea_popescu: why the fuyck competer in "gui" when you can just compete in holes and either bury the stubborn or else watch windows turn into very much tmsr kicking and screaming ?
asciilifeform: 1990s virii folx had the right idea.
asciilifeform: you can achieve similar effect just by formatting their hdd, erasing whatever eraseable roms, etc
mircea_popescu: take that away, let them learn how to use a tmsr computer or do without a computer at all.
mircea_popescu: so far the ~only problem i can discern keeping cool things from long ago existing is the pretense of allowing idiots choice.
asciilifeform: because there is not yet any known way to compensate the possibility of deliberate misanswer in the calculation. ☟︎
asciilifeform: but they are not.
asciilifeform: if cpu cycles were actually fungible, this would already long ago exist.
mircea_popescu: what do they do when their gfx card dun fit the game ?!?!?!
asciilifeform: and if his hdd dun fit the chain ?
mircea_popescu: for the first time in his lyf.
asciilifeform: hey who didn't think of 'say virus installed linux' in 1998
mircea_popescu: phf ikr ? seems the most placid obviousness to me somehow. i must be a little odd.
mircea_popescu: uci does not convey OWNership of box but permits USAGE thereof.
asciilifeform: this is an entertaining idea ( though i predict that the typical luser will run ever the moar quicker to the new hdd shop from it ) but was not in mircea_popescu's classical uci spec.
mircea_popescu: or else he can learn how to ada, why not.
mircea_popescu: and yes, he's more than welcome to take a hammer at it / take it back to winapple shop to "have it fixed" (and it will be, and then re-fixed and so on)
mircea_popescu: sane os containing tmsr toolset.
asciilifeform: so 'sane os' magically containing luser's demanded toolset, is also somehow in the mix ??!
asciilifeform: where does uci pool of available cpu cycles come from then
mircea_popescu: why do you think this is different from that ?
asciilifeform: next thing - he takes it to the corner store and trades in hdd
mircea_popescu: but like i just said ? if you end up owning a machine with crap installed, what do you do ? wipe the crap, install a sane os and continue.
asciilifeform: user switches on box, sees 'muhahaha all my cycles belong to mircea_popescu OS installed!'
asciilifeform: similar to existing crapware
asciilifeform: my current understanding is that you need ~some~ degree of stealth