tmsr - Search: " T"

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asciilifeform: spectrum's all wrong, too, led is closer to ye olde crt tv than to blackbody

mircea_popescu: "they prolly run up to the mhz"

mircea_popescu: exactly. that was the logic.

mircea_popescu: i suspect they can see the flicker, yes.

asciilifeform: and i suspect also -- can SEE the flicker from the electronic horrors

asciilifeform: they luvvv their blackbody ☟︎

mircea_popescu: apparently, they very much can tell.

mircea_popescu: btw, you won't believe this, but for being the only house with incandescents on this mother-of-biodiversity hill i get like half the moths and consequently a third of the birds.

asciilifeform: btw mircea_popescu would be delighted to learn that 'modern' envirotronic led bulbs typically never properly die, they just grow moar flickery and... orange, if you will

mircea_popescu: <mircea_popescu> now the lightbulbs, connected to the standard battery, did not light up. but only ever slightly orange in the filament.

asciilifeform: taken to the extreme, tho, this train would go to 'can't hang nobody at all, what if Great Artist Dies Inside'im'

mircea_popescu: possibly the event that made it impossible for me to be seriously racist in the usual sense.

asciilifeform: sounds like we both had same item to blame, lol

mircea_popescu: so you have something else to blame huh. i don't!

asciilifeform: i have a similar story, but from adulthood and with severl $k of parts that 'hey these all defective, thefuq' and at the end an overvolted ps that had nuked'em all one by one by one..

mircea_popescu: mind you don't end up as sad as me at six as an adult. it goes away a lot faster at that age.

mircea_popescu: and only realised the problem after the garbage had been taken out.

mircea_popescu: i threw them all away.

mircea_popescu: so i threw it away. and piucked another one. same thing. so i scream-ask my mom, across the flat, "mom, is a lightbulb that doesn't not light up thereby no good ?" "yes" she says, evidently using a different standard of "not light up" than mine.

mircea_popescu: now the lightbulbs, connected to the standard battery, did not light up. but only ever slightly orange in the filament.

asciilifeform can feel the bulb in his fingers even nao

mircea_popescu: now this man... he had a set of 9V lightbulbs. and so as any good respectable citizen i sat down with the dead man's dragon pile, to TEST everythiung I got. yes ? ☟︎

mircea_popescu: now at the time we are writing about, "electronics hobbist lab lightbulb" meant a fixed, all-identical, standardized thing. gost like. every kid in school could recognize the item, "this is lightbulb". same for 4.5V 3-cell-in-paper battery and so on. identical, you understand ? (and same for all girls underweasr and all people's flats and furniture in them and so on)

mircea_popescu: and this guy who was an amateur electronist died, and he actually LEFT me his lab! which included all sorts of things, glassware from pre war and such.

mircea_popescu: so i was about six, and a bright young adorable kid with blond curls that proposed to my parents' friends' wives. marriage i mean. and even bit one.

asciilifeform: lolno do tell

mircea_popescu: you realise you'd prolly hang all my whores for "hanging out with enemy, AND wrong garterbelt buckles" if you had to manage the thing ?

a111: Logged on 2017-09-02 17:23 asciilifeform: betcha the man wears 'gott mit uns' belt buckle, he does.

a111: Logged on 2017-09-02 17:17 asciilifeform: in other noose, the kanzure d00d works and works to transcribe audio for prb 'conferences', e.g. http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/scalingbitcoin/milan/schnorr-signatures , for apparently years nao.

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-02#1710018 << hey, it's easy and non-threatening and gives the outward impression of doing work. what'd you have him do. ☝︎

mircea_popescu: Guido Bertoni, Joan Daemen, Michaël Peeters, Gilles Van Assche and Ronny Van Keer << might as well dump the list of bernsteins that'll have to explain themselves.

a111: Logged on 2017-09-02 16:51 asciilifeform: holyshit the original keccak www is gone

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-02#1710002 << heh. teh conincidentals. ☝︎

asciilifeform: i had a xilinx board (shaped like pc mobo, with pci even ) that had this feature

phf: right, that's the first thought when you have your cadr up. "oh wait, i need to go fuck around with xilinx tooling to make any kind of changes here)

spyked: aha! so gotta lispify the toolchain. this sounds like a nice project

asciilifeform: THEN can throw out pc.

asciilifeform: ( eventually the synthesis must run on ITSELF )

asciilifeform: spyked: once satisfied that the thing can support adult work.

asciilifeform: spyked: that's the plan.

asciilifeform: lego toy got 'xilinxized' in early 2000s

spyked: anyway, don't see why toolchain would need github deps. can fork and sanitize

asciilifeform saw this

phf: i'd say it's more like 80s lego and modern lego (if you haven't seen, now it's all >50% custom per-toy parts, that can be snapped to a traditional lego coupling, but otherwise non-universal) ☟︎☟︎

asciilifeform: spyked: anyway if you search the log you can see how to make it build on gcc.

asciilifeform: ( this is at least theoretically fixable )

spyked: no idea why they need clang. but I see your point

asciilifeform: bad enough that the thing seems to insist on python3.

asciilifeform: re the archs -- lattice ice is analogous to children's toy 'lego' where you get 9,000 identical bricks; xilinx ( and altera, and the 'adult' lattice fpga on fancy dev boards ) are analogous to... i guess the 'erector' toy, where there are a certain number of fungible pieces, but also ~a~ motor, ~a~ heavy iron base, a quantity of gears, etc. ☟︎

a111: Logged on 2017-09-02 19:40 asciilifeform: try it and see.

spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-02#1710087 <-- so far so good. building icestorm tools, pnr, verilog synthesis works after adding clang and other assorted crap. will work out the arduino part later. ☝︎☟︎

asciilifeform: spyked: it does not seem to be disastrously bad, surprisingly. but i have yet to try it with a large design. ( also helps that the chip is small, a truly elephantine circuit will never be entered )

a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 23:18 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in ic-pr0n, http://www.clifford.at/icestorm/bitdocs-8k << spiffy example of nonpdfized ( per earlier mircea_popescu thread ) hierarchical docs

spyked: also, synthesis of open source icestorm toolchain might be somewhat less efficient than closed source? (just a wild guess, maybe not)

asciilifeform: i.e. they are nonhomogeneous.

asciilifeform: ( and are the reason why xilinx has not been satisfactorily reversed a la ice, and not likely to be before going out of print )

asciilifeform: and these end up used to reduce pressure on the LUTs

asciilifeform: ( this is a rough measure, because not all LUTs are created equal, naturally, xilinx has somewhat different ones in the cpld series vs 'spartans', and lattice has yet different, and altera -- yet different, etc )

asciilifeform: you can use this to estimate whether the thing will fit in particular pld

phf: i didn't notice it, but i'll look next time i build

asciilifeform: ( xilinx toolchain shits out this figure in the report )

asciilifeform: phf: out of curiosity, what was the LUT % utilization when you built ?

phf: right, it already does (board above). i was curious if there's a porting out strategy, but your answer explained the situation

asciilifeform: ( though last i saw it was a straight conversion from the ttl schematic, and not especially compact, might need one of the larger chips )

asciilifeform: phf: if you're content to test parker's cadr, your existing xilinx board oughta do the job

phf: this is beyond me at this point. i'm mostly trying to understand various initricasies of cadr fpga-ing, i'll revisit this thread later

asciilifeform: ( though i currently suspect that something in the spirit of scheme-79 could fit in no more than 2 -- 1 for the alu and 1 for memory control/gc )

asciilifeform: phf: first thing i'd put on ab-initio ice board is... moar ices.

asciilifeform: up to perhaps 10MHz

asciilifeform: phf: to be fair, the olimex boards have an expansion plug. but you can't put , e.g., dram, on there, toomuch capacitance.

a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 12:25 asciilifeform: but lattice per se is EXACTLY like xilinx, same profit model, closed arch, license 'ip cores'. their larger flagship fpga is exactly like xilinx 'spartan', full of proprietary peripherals, and that's the one that tends to get packaged into devboards with nic etc

asciilifeform: ( see also thread http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701866 . ) ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 22:44 asciilifeform: phf et al : to briefly continue http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707895 -- picture an a4-sized plinth, of, e.g., 32 dimm slots. each can contain a card of sram, or alternatively of 4 ice40-8k's, or some peripheral ( e.g. nic magnetics. )

phf: right, so ice is basically just the fpga with minimum amount of breadboarding, if we want to pipistrello gottta design our own

asciilifeform: folx who are willing to use lattice's closed shitdevchain buy the larger parts, where the dev boards are comparable to xilinx.

asciilifeform: because the part is considered 'too small'

asciilifeform: then we proceed to the dev boards. nobody makes an ice dev board with dram on it; or with flash other than the config rom; or with sram bigger than 512k. currently.

asciilifeform: but smaller than all but the smallest xilinx 'spartan' parts.

asciilifeform: roughly same as 100 of the xl9572 used in FUCKGOATS.

asciilifeform: biggest ice part is the ICE40HX8K ☟︎

asciilifeform: phf: let's start with the gate count ☟︎

asciilifeform: where , you know, you gotta devote an entire comp to running a 20GB closed warez, and it does ?????.

asciilifeform: the problem is that it's xilinx.

asciilifeform: phf: that looks like a xilinx

phf: asciilifeform: i don't really understand fpga peripherals architecture very well, but you think you could eyeball compare what's available in ice to pipistrello. (i'm curious where there's a limitation as far as porting cadr) http://pipistrello.saanlima.com/index.php?title=Welcome_to_Pipistrello#Pipistrello_Rev_2.0_Hardware_Description

asciilifeform: the tricky bit is the toolchain .

spyked: ty asciilifeform! I have an arduino board somewhere, will try to get that working.

asciilifeform: ( scroll up for pinout of the prog connector )

asciilifeform: spyked: https://www.olimex.com/wiki/ICE40HX1K-EVB#Get_started_under_Linux << their doc

asciilifeform: otherwise you need something that can write to the spi rom, via the given header

asciilifeform: there are jtag pins but they are unpopulated, and you'll have to tweezer a resistor off to get the thing to use the ice's internal eeprom instead of the external 2Mb spi rom, if you want to use those

spyked: lessee. what do they use? JTAG?

asciilifeform: ( see their docs. )

asciilifeform: ( can use their olimexduino thing + 10pin cable, or if you have a similar already )

asciilifeform: spyked: you'll also want something to use as a programmator

spyked has had a spike in spendings on hardware in the last ~3 weeks, but couldn't be helped

a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 15:38 asciilifeform: in very very other noose : the vendor's vga and ps/2 kbd demo verilog for ice40 builds and WORX

a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 22:23 asciilifeform: since we're on subj, asciilifeform got the recently released ice40-8k (largest in the series) going. ( there's only 1 decent dev board for the 8k, the one released by olimex ~2wks ago )

spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707890 <--> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-01#1708980 neato! olimex ppl are pretty close to me (bg), so I ordered one myself, hopefully to be shipped by end of next week ☝︎☝︎

shinohai: Act now, and we'll throw in a phree facial bone from the head of St. John the Baptist.