▁▁⏐︎ 12790
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 22 @ 0.10038222 = 2.2084 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: !up zen_
BingoBoingo: !up dpb-dotcom
danielpbarron: hi dpb-dotcom
danielpbarron: ;;rate thomas_d 1 plays on seals as thomas_dick
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user thomas_d has been recorded.
xanthyos: !up bagels7
BingoBoingo: !up bagels7
cazalla: http://qntra.net/2014/11/breakout-gaming-ico-concludes/
assbot: Breakout Gaming ICO Concludes | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1pdlqcw )
BingoBoingo: !up GamerZag
BingoBoingo: Hello GamerZag
mircea_popescu: lol what happened to coinfire
mircea_popescu: !up zen_
kakobrekla: they got phwned?
BingoBoingo: Looks like it. They did a piece on GAW miners and then a few hours later... haxxed
xanthyos: https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/B3K6LmLIAAAzo5C.mp4
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/11pCVM2 )
mircea_popescu: lulzy.
mircea_popescu: !s naggum field demand
assbot: 0 results for 'naggum field demand' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=naggum+field+demand
mircea_popescu: meh where was it
cazalla: lol a fkn rabbit is front page of /r/bitcoin
mircea_popescu: yours ?
cazalla: mircea_popescu, of course
mircea_popescu: wd lol
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54500 @ 0.00041922 = 22.8475 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60053 @ 0.00041892 = 25.1574 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform btw, because i remembered doing the research for my latest : speaking of the "how about you stop sending niggers" thing - the romanian secret service arrested a few dozen men mid december 1989 who were travelling to timisoara by themselves. no women, no children, "vacation". they had all heard that this was the oldest town in europe with electric illumination.
mircea_popescu: lulz of all time.
BingoBoingo: http://edition.cnn.com/2014/11/22/health/thanksmichelleobama-school-lunches/index.html?cid=C13888a07
assbot: #ThanksMichelleObama: Students criticize school lunches - CNN.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1tplb9T )
mircea_popescu: it's like reading the fucking scinteia over here. "elena ceausescu has visited the highschool #85, gave dispositions"
mircea_popescu: so romanian presidential elections were 30%-40% first round, then 54% - 45% 2nd round. then they made a poll to see who people voted with, and 66% claim to have voted wioth the winner. that's 12% more than actually did. what fraction of that is people lying, and what fraction is votes stolen ?
mats_cd03: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/time-apologizes-including-feminist-poll-words-ban
assbot: TIME apologizes for including 'feminist' in poll of words to ban | The Rundown | PBS NewsHour ... ( http://bit.ly/1tpm56k )
mats_cd03: "TIME apologizes for the execution of this poll; the word ‘feminist’ should not have been included in a list of words to ban. While we meant to invite debate about some ways the word was used this year, that nuance was lost, and we regret that its inclusion has become a distraction from the important debate over equality and justice."
mats_cd03: kek.
mircea_popescu: wait. so they banned words from the poll to ban words ?
mats_cd03: don't play the game if you can't take the heat, playa
mircea_popescu: and they have a poll about "what" pre-decided words to ban ?
mircea_popescu: how very feminist, progressive and pseudo-justice anti-social of them
mircea_popescu: "we want to have a democratic process for as long as the results come out the way we like. we also want science that confirms our preconceived notions".
mircea_popescu: they could be Time Africa / Soviet Union / Best Korea just as well.
mats_cd03: they can't afford to offend women, they're the demographic with most disposable income no?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2012/cererea-de-suspendare-a-pre%C8%99edintelui-traian-basescu-sau-cu-caragiale-tot-inainte/ << i nominate for translation queue based on link title alone
assbot: Cererea de suspendare a președintelui Traian Băsescu, sau cu Caragiale tot inainte! pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1C3dpwQ )
mircea_popescu: noted.
mircea_popescu: mats_cd03 how is this a fucking criteria lol.
ben_vulpes: although the acronym puns are probably going to be hard
mircea_popescu: i made acronym puns ?!@
mircea_popescu: o look at that, i made acronym puns.
mircea_popescu: Proleguminie ahahaha god help us.
mircea_popescu: im sorry foxy, that shit's untranslatable.
mircea_popescu: ;;google prolegomenos
gribble: Prolegómenos. Derechos y Valores - Redalyc: <http://www.redalyc.org/revista.oa?id=876>; Prolegómenos de la renta básica | Montserrat Galcerán on Vimeo: <http://vimeo.com/11693346>; Resumen y prolegomenos del encuentro UD Roteña - Sevilla FC ...: <http://vimeo.com/45779641>
mircea_popescu: ;;google legume
gribble: Legume - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legume>; legume: <http://www.legumebistro.com/>; Legume - Merriam-Webster Online: <http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/legume>
ben_vulpes: at this rate i'm going to have to learn romanian
mircea_popescu: learn latin, it'll open a whole new englishj to you
ben_vulpes: myeah.
mircea_popescu: and romanian is practically mutually comprehensible.
mircea_popescu: "La ultimul termen din 1 aprilie, Mazăre s-a prezentat la procesul de la Cureta de Apel Bucureşti" << they were trying for the "court of appeals". itcame out, "the appalling curette".
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61803 @ 0.00041272 = 25.5073 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49695 @ 0.00041 = 20.375 BTC [-]
cazalla: xanthyos, how's ya cock mate
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: "25% salary cuts every 2-3 months" << this is a thing?
mircea_popescu: yep.
mircea_popescu: actually, for years on end "journos" got no pay at all.
mircea_popescu: "maybe next month, something"
ben_vulpes: how'd they eat?
mircea_popescu: and before you're shocked : at least half gawker employees are in exactly the same situation . if the thing didn't happen to be an organ of the socialist press, they'd be in prison like that indian diplomat for "slave labour"
mircea_popescu: how do whores generally eat ? around the cock in their mouth.
mircea_popescu: couch surfing is a thing. bumming food and shelter off people you met at a party last week idem.
mircea_popescu: in the immortal words of maggie the cat, "you can be young and without money, you just can't be old and without it"
xanthyos: cazalla: swollen, but no longer mangled
xanthyos: i took the gauze off yesterday, it's circumstitched
xanthyos: like the molding of a real doll
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i'm familiar with the females of my age group couch surfing, living on gov't grants, waitressing, staying up late chain smoking over the odd "piece".
mircea_popescu: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0CzvCpEkKg << old music hour.
assbot: Wheatus -Teenage Dirtbag (Lyrics & A cute font) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1tpnGcn )
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes so then.
mircea_popescu: and "entrepreneurs" aren't in that much better a shape, since we're on it.
ben_vulpes: but they never got paid to begin with. pay cuts tho?
mircea_popescu: yeah well... it gets better. they mostly owe to banks, have wives and children
ben_vulpes: (the girls of my generation, i mean.)
mircea_popescu: they took out credits in swiss francs because they were 1% cheaper before the swiss franc doubled in value over a summer, so they could pay 80k for a shitty prefab apartment in a shitty bucharest neighbourhood,
mircea_popescu: ie, 3x what a house apparently costs in ohio (and that 1% was off ~14% a year, mind)
mircea_popescu: on it goes, lulzfest is of such epic proportions it can scarcely be conveyed.
mircea_popescu: and speaking of which... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuTMWgOduFM
assbot: Pulp - Common People - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1vgH6FG )
mircea_popescu: parents carry part of the blame.
ben_vulpes: i struggle with the flipside of the debt thing - what to do with the retained earnings? go long the stock market? really? i'm bullish on btc on like a 30 year timeframe so that has to have next to no bearing on the 1-2 year timeframe for handling retained earnings right now. give up the 8% or w/e the market's doing under QE or hold it all in cash because "it can't go on like this forever!11!"
xanthyos: i prefer the william shatner cover
xanthyos: to common people
mircea_popescu: just buy stuff.
mircea_popescu: you're not making enough to actually have the problem of not being able to buy stuff.
mircea_popescu: buy an apartment in every city you ever heard of and rent it out. worst comes to worst you have where to live. stuff like that.
ben_vulpes: can't quite swing apartments this year.
ben_vulpes: as i said this afternoon "too much money to put to use in our own business, not enough to get into any others".
mircea_popescu: so stock up on stuff then. look at your grocery list, see everything on there you actually like and keeps well, buy a year's supply
mircea_popescu: or w/e you figure you'll be there for.
mircea_popescu: the 8% is illusory. having the stuff on hand for when the price hikes is not.
mircea_popescu: as a general principle : the only use of money in an inflationary spiral is to buy stuff.
ben_vulpes: monitors and desks are certainly on the list.
mircea_popescu: the more tangible the better. tuna is stuff. stocks... hardly.
mircea_popescu: nah, not monitors. tech items make poor stuff.
undata: stockpile booze
undata: that's always valuable in a depression
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell asciilifeform subject of monitors: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005JN9310/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s03?ie=UTF8 << excellent vertical orientation displays
assbot: Amazon.com: Dell UltraSharp U2412M 24-Inch Screen LED-lit Monitor: Computers & Accessories ... ( http://bit.ly/1vgJV9R )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: anecdotally, i totally raped the power company in romania. one year they were desperate for cash, so you could make a deal where you prepaid consumption at fixed rate. so i did, i prepaid for like a year.
mircea_popescu: then prices went the fuck up and threatened to go further up, so they actually paid me to settle it.
mircea_popescu: a month after which the prices went down.
ben_vulpes: lol wd
ben_vulpes: we are planning to buy the year's rent in a lump sum
mircea_popescu: i was the passive element really, they just were really intent on selfrape somehow
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i pay quarterly anyway, but as long as its set in the contract whatr diff does it make ?
mircea_popescu: unlkess you get a discount i guess.
ben_vulpes: it's a more expensive space, but nobody's teeth will be chattering in the new space.
ben_vulpes: book it as an expense in 2014 for taxes.
mircea_popescu: ah like that. sure.
ben_vulpes: also reincorporating as an s-corp in 2015 for ibid
ben_vulpes: so what, two cases of champagne?
cazalla: <ben_vulpes> we are planning to buy the year's rent in a lump sum <<< i tried this once before but got knocked back, i figured because i paid on time every time the owner figure what was the point
ben_vulpes: well yeah that's why it's part of the offer on the space
ben_vulpes: cazalla: do you tan your rabbit hides?
ben_vulpes: moreover is tanning even the thing to do with hairy hides?
ben_vulpes is out of his depth...again.
cazalla: ben_vulpes, nope, i should learn but i just compost what's left
ben_vulpes: cazalla: i'm casually observing lady v browse etsy et al for moar home furnishings (just set her up with the budget for a kilim rug), saw rabbit fur flash across the screen, thought of your habits.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: monitor << 1920 x 1200, yuck
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: and most of the cheap offerings have subpar view angles vertically
asciilifeform: (i have not tried this one, but recently spat on a similar one - 'asus' ?)
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: why is 1200x1920 so abhorrent?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i'm finding 1440 a tight horizontal fit at the moment
ben_vulpes: a hilarious thing about my monitor selections
ben_vulpes: i can't use very tall monitors, as i bought these glasses in high school and they have an extremely narrow field of vision.
asciilifeform: lol ben_vulpes using the same spectacle frames for a decade, just like me
asciilifeform: i've already had to buff them, will soon need to electroplate
asciilifeform: as all the Cr has long ago come off
ben_vulpes: i can't use contacts while programming as my prescription is way out in the tail of the distribution, where the spacing between contact fabrication points squarely frames my actual needs.
ben_vulpes: plus, astigmatism.
ben_vulpes: so - i use the 1920x1200's in horizontal orientation, slapping 3 buffers sideways.
asciilifeform never grasped the appeal of 'let's now screw this bit of plastic into eye'
asciilifeform did try it just to say 'yes tried it'
ben_vulpes: oh let's see
ben_vulpes: full field of vision
ben_vulpes: eyes move, not head
ben_vulpes: (particularly important when the astigmatism severely degrades views through anywhere but the lens center)
asciilifeform sorta remembers, from childhood, that this is possible
asciilifeform: but only in deep theory
ben_vulpes: i miss this terribly.
ben_vulpes: once upon a time my contacts were made to order.
ben_vulpes: this, afaik, is not available anymore.
ben_vulpes: it was a glorious time at the intersection of the autorefractor and the custom plastics.
ben_vulpes: lead time was nearly a month back then.
ben_vulpes: these days: auto-refractor - you betcha. lead times - in stock. odd prescription in the tail of things? get fucked.
ben_vulpes: i believe that you have a term for this degradation of the industrial toolchain, asciilifeform, but it escapes me at the moment.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: if i did - forgot.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44400 @ 0.00041 = 18.204 BTC [-]
cazalla: zomg, anyone heard of a mobility golf cart? gawminers community raised funds to some random.. "Within one month, they had raised over $3000, enabling Doc to purchase a golf cart urgently needed for mobility, enabling him to live alone but independently in Crystal River, FL. He also received enough mining equipment and hashing power to keep a steady stream of income flowing for the rest of his life."
cazalla: <ben_vulpes> asciilifeform: why is 1200x1920 so abhorrent? <<< what about refresh rate asciilifeform?
asciilifeform: cazalla: not much of a factor on lcd, no ?
cazalla: huge factor, it's easy to tell diff between 60hz-80hz and 120-144hz
asciilifeform: how ?
cazalla: well, at least for gaming but even for desktop use i get a headache from anything less than 120hz
asciilifeform: and, afaik, >60Hz is only achieved on 6-bit colour channels
asciilifeform: that is, turd
asciilifeform: i can see the dither flicker. on all of them.
cazalla: where am i gonna get a widescreen crt though, one suitable for gaming
asciilifeform: imho we have a case of poor toilet-kitchen separation here.
cazalla: you should see my logitech kb :P
cazalla: if viewing angle is a concern, i can see how they are utter shit but if not, suitable for gaming/desktop use, i like my 120hz led
asciilifeform: i can see the 7-8th 'virtual' bits of colour DAC resolution flicker.
asciilifeform: with naked eye.
asciilifeform: it is monstrous.
asciilifeform: to my eyes, using these '120hz' lcd is like using a crt at 60hz
asciilifeform: physical pain.
cazalla: <asciilifeform> i can see the 7-8th 'virtual' bits of colour DAC resolution flicker. <<< see, i don't even know what this really is, so not a concern for such a person :)
asciilifeform: yeah, more or less nobody i know can. other than my brother - fellow mutant.
cazalla: crt@60hz would be quite painful
cazalla: my eyes are fucked anyway, can't see 3d etc on account of lazy eye
asciilifeform: wtf is the point of a 120hz display if not for 3d shutter goggles.
asciilifeform once had to wear these for work, does not miss it
cazalla: as a kid, no-one picked up that i had a lazy eye, so for many years i didn't even understand why i couldn't see what all these other kids could see with those stereogram books
cazalla: asciilifeform, seems to reduce motion blur, less flicking, tearing when gaming
asciilifeform: where'll i see motion blur, in 'emacs', lol
asciilifeform: so long as cursors do not leave 'snail trails' - satisfied.
asciilifeform: mats_cd03, mircea_popescu: regin trojan << mega-lol. run moar winblows, yes.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: naggum field demand >> http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3140985758772364@naggum.no.html << here
assbot: Re: Is LISP dying? - Naggum cll archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1rgShZV )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 3x what a house apparently costs in ohio << dirty math here. house in ohio costs 100% of a typical ohio inmate's disposable income. just like in ca or dc.
asciilifeform: it only appears cheap to folks who are not inmates.
asciilifeform recalls experiment where, when leaving ro in april, paid cabbie in airport with a benjie instead of exact change in local bills. he made an odd face.
asciilifeform was not able to determine if face meant 'thanks' or 'you moron'. experiment wasted.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you could make a deal where you prepaid consumption at fixed rate. so i did << and then how many tons of aluminum did you refine? or wasted!
xanthyos: has anyone used openkeychain for android?
xanthyos: i just got a tablet and i want to find a reliable authing app
mircea_popescu: <cazalla> ben_vulpes, nope, i should learn but i just compost what's left << holy shgit man srsly ?
mircea_popescu: the skin is worth more than half the rabbit ffs.
mircea_popescu: * asciilifeform never grasped the appeal of 'let's now screw this bit of plastic into eye' << cause women don't look good in glasses.
mircea_popescu: <ben_vulpes> once upon a time my contacts were made to order. << should have bought 500 pairs.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> and then how many tons of aluminum did you refine? or wasted! << lol i was only using about 1mw +-
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38874 @ 0.00041197 = 16.0149 BTC [+]
cazalla: if you would like to ask andreas derp a question tonight - https://www.sli.do/event/1zzatakl#ask
assbot: The Bitcoin Address | Sli.do ... ( http://bit.ly/1C3RKVb )
cazalla: i can smell his stench from 30 minutes away
mircea_popescu: lol they have a special revolutionary web2.0 site for slides ?
cazalla: actually, his talk is tmw, some other idiots shilling altcoins tonight instead but even still..
xanthyos: so you smelled him from even further in the future
xanthyos: tachyonic odor
cazalla: xanthyos, he's there tonight, just his talk is tmw or some shit, i dunno, i take offense at him being here in my home town :P
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2012/razboiul-cu-presa-in-reluare/#comment-76264 << the ddos kiddies of 2012 lmao
assbot: Razboiul cu "presa" in reluare pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1tpxuTR )
mircea_popescu: the shit i find digging...
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2100 @ 0.00120988 = 2.5407 BTC [-] {13}
cazalla: interesting, new zealanders are like australia's version of mexicans - Fewer New Zealanders are leaving for Australia and more Kiwis are returning home. Statistics that have just been released show New Zealand's annual net migration gain rising to a record for the third consecutive month, led by an increase in student arrivals from India and fewer Kiwis crossing the Tasman.
cazalla: from http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/11/24/more-kiwis-leaving-australia-coming-first-time-21-years
assbot: More Kiwis leaving Australia than coming for the first time in 21 years | SBS News ... ( http://bit.ly/1tpxZ07 )
punkman: http://seclists.org/nanog/2014/Nov/530
assbot: nanog: Re: Craigslist hacked? ... ( http://bit.ly/1tpyKGh )
punkman: https://fuzzing-project.org/software.html
assbot: The Fuzzing Project - apps ... ( http://bit.ly/1tpyR4I )
mircea_popescu: "The craigslist account at one of our registrars was compromised" << aka, social engineering.
mircea_popescu: still the #1 threat.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28496 @ 0.0004336 = 12.3559 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1500 @ 0.001208 = 1.812 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1781 @ 0.00121361 = 2.1614 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24650 @ 0.00046844 = 11.547 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50400 @ 0.00045865 = 23.116 BTC [-] {2}
nubbins`: <+cazalla> zomg, anyone heard of a mobility golf cart? <<< cazalla iirc these are a thing in florida retirement communities
nubbins`: my friend's folks go down there for a few months every year, apparently it's common to use the golf cart to go to the store, etc
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18050 @ 0.00045895 = 8.284 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2520 @ 0.00121892 = 3.0717 BTC [+] {4}
BingoBoingo: !up MoltyMcMolt
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1697 @ 0.00121968 = 2.0698 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 938 @ 0.00121993 = 1.1443 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1138 @ 0.00121998 = 1.3883 BTC [+] {6}
mats_cd03: asciilifeform: available for PM?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9654 @ 0.00043409 = 4.1907 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: mats_cd03: sure
asciilifeform: mats_cd03: have to go to meatspace thing soon though
TomServo: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 331440 | Current Difficulty: 4.03000303278914E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 332639 | Next Difficulty In: 1199 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 23 hours, 50 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 39643278154.8 | Estimated Percent Change: -1.62966
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/flood.txt.gz << yesterday's idiocy
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1zkzHEB )
asciilifeform: ^ all from misconfigured consumer routers, it appears.
asciilifeform: (and before anyone asks, no, that isn't an actual 'actiontek' - spoofed mac for isp that originally shipped one)
jurov: btw asciilifeform can you ask your hosting about the emails? i sent polite inquiry to support@nearlyfreespeech.net
jurov: but it got blackholed too apparently
kakobrekla: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2msqxh/the_boys_at_pheeva_are_crowdfunding_to_get_their/
assbot: The boys at Pheeva are crowd-funding to get their commercial onto ESPN for the Bitcoin Bowl. I donated. : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1xNrfzn )
kakobrekla: insane^2
asciilifeform: jurov: flood was on home pipe, not at my www hoster
TomServo: Boy, the pheeva hipster mascot does a great job capturing my lack of interest in their product.
jurov: asciilifeform i just remembered to ask. but i'll try more emails and see
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8584 @ 0.00043014 = 3.6923 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: According to the radio the grand Jury finally came to a decision in the Ferguson case. Won't way what it is yet, but a good chunk of St Louis County went into lockdown.
thestringpuller: That's kinda messed up.
thestringpuller: It reminds me of Kent State.
BingoBoingo: What the verdict is supposedly is coming later today, but...
undata: BingoBoingo: I'm going to hazard a guess
chetty: the 60s never went away, just took a trip
undata: ... cops can kill with impunity
BingoBoingo: You know its serious because they are locking the mailboxes
chetty: undata, true, but this particular case doesn't seem to be an example of that problem
undata: chetty: elaborate, because I'm certain I disagree
asciilifeform: the state, by definition, 'kills with impunity'
asciilifeform: 'cops shouldn't kill with impunity', parsed through intellectual honesty filter, simply implies 'a different set of bandits should be able to kill with impunity, including possibly killing original set'
chetty: well the info 'leaked' so far sure sounds like self defense. But face it, none of us know what happened really. The kid that got shot cause he answered the door with a game controller in his hand would seem a lot better example, to me.
undata: asciilifeform: so you do not believe there should be law?
undata: your broad generalization glosses over quite a bit
undata: chetty: the video I saw was a guy yelling at a cop
asciilifeform: undata: notice that i did not specify what i personally like (who the hell cares) - but did make a claim re: mechanics.
asciilifeform: undata: pick a square metre of planet, and you can come up with one or more parties that 'can kill with impunity' there.
asciilifeform: undata: the one that can clobber the others (should there be any) 'with impunity' is called 'sovereign'.
chetty: undata, so many cop shootings out there, prolly a video of most anything available somewhere, which in fact makes the point.
undata: asciilifeform: no one can get away with *anything*, not even a sovereign ruler
undata: their heads tend to roll after a certain threshold
thestringpuller: instead of police we should just go back to having voluntary militias
chetty: well that threshold keeps expanding
undata: thestringpuller: I said that, was accused of derpitude
asciilifeform: undata: for 'everyday engineering' definition of 'get away' - sure. who, exactly, lives in usa that usg cannot kill 'with impunity' ?
chetty: or even outside of it asciilifeform , no residence required
undata: asciilifeform: governments eventually change
undata: it just takes a hell of a lot of peasant-grinding
asciilifeform: undata: sure - change. this does not disprove above scheme.
chetty: there is only now
undata: asciilifeform: anyone can be killed
thestringpuller: makes the fiction of stealing a nuke and making your own country a lot more rational
mats_cd03: asciilifeform: would you happen to know where i can find warez of "What makes it page?"
undata: archdukes and kings and unknown bums
asciilifeform: undata: to repurpose an old proverb: 'beware of turing's tarpit, where anything is possible but nothing of interest is easy.'
undata: asciilifeform: conversely if one thinks with too broad a brush, all possible conditions look the same
asciilifeform: mats_cd03: sadly not
mats_cd03: too bad. i've got the paper version, but pulp doesn't have the "find" feature yet.
asciilifeform: notice that nuke does not prevent owner from being killed, but increases the cost. and there are other ways to affect the cost.
undata: seems to me spaceflight is going to be required for any innovative approaches to "making a society" to emerge
undata: as we are out of hospitable continents
undata: maybe undersea
Apocalyptic: ascii does fancy submarines as you may have noticed
asciilifeform: undata: defeating enemies on earth looks expensive, but is cheaper than space flight and terraforming (the latter, no one has even an elementary clue how to even estimate the cost.)
undata: 2058, undata retires to L5 to tend his greenhouse
undata: regarding undersea living, I'd be concerned that a hostile govt would simply destroy the thing
undata: seems easy to hide
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12301 @ 0.00043014 = 5.2912 BTC [-]
cazalla: undata: in the words of reddit, if you try to grab a cops gun, you're gonna have a bad time
undata: cazalla: a cop would never lie about that after shooting an unarmed guy
undata: I grew up in TX, where cops shooting unarmed black kids doesn't even make the news.
cazalla: they off each in greater numbers, why not campaign about that instead
mircea_popescu: !up Sid3waY
undata: or cut the pretense that the cops are there to protect the population
Sid3waY: Hihi
Sid3waY: Thank you
mircea_popescu: undata the actual population.
mircea_popescu: ello Sid3waY. who're you ?
asciilifeform: the 'police brutality' crap is orchestrated by u.s. lizard media. ergo it is simply a prelude to a 'sudden, brilliant, hope, change 11!111!!' 'solution' - a national gendarmerie. think 'dhs' but this time 'for real.'
Sid3waY: I'm looking for a Lil help on margin trading on bitfinex
Sid3waY: I'm s1dew4y
undata: asciilifeform: oh, certainly
mircea_popescu: cazalla so if the young males don't off each other what are you going to do with the losers ? teach them javascript ?
undata: but it's not as if it's all coordinated
mircea_popescu: Sid3waY generally the standing advice on bitfinex is that you should get off that scam.
undata: these redneck cops are just naturally useful
cazalla: undata, i don't think that at all, i just think it's a bit much to cry over a cop killing a nignog who tried to grab his gun when said nignogs kill each other in greater numbers but no media circus there, no riots either
Sid3waY: In was sent here as all pricetall/trading isn't allowed in Bitcoin -_-
Sid3waY: Scam...
cazalla: mircea_popescu, i'll train em to fight like pokemon
undata: cazalla: the whole "nignog" thing doesn't exactly give you the intellectual high ground here
mircea_popescu: cazalla howssat ?
mats_cd03: no, but its funny
undata: you're just assuming he went for the gun because it fits your predetermined view on the thing
mircea_popescu: Sid3waY it's perfectly allowed, just, i dunno that anyone actuallytrusts it to keep money there.
mircea_popescu: cazalla for what it's worth i did confiscate a "cop"'s gun once.
cazalla: undata, aren't you assuming the cop shot him simply because he is black?
cazalla: mircea_popescu, ok but you clearly walked away unscathed, our nignog in quesation did not
mircea_popescu: well, she was either untrained or inept, but in any case a danger to herself an' others. and i knew her boss.
undata: ha, that's awesome
mircea_popescu: but the deeper moral is : see idiot with gun, take it from him. okay.
mircea_popescu: if you "take it from him" and he still shoots you...
mircea_popescu: baby, you did something wrong.
mircea_popescu: bitch was in no position to do anything. i could have shot her dead. that i didn't is an act of mercy on
mircea_popescu: MY part.
mircea_popescu: there wasn't at any point the possibility ~i'd~ get shot.
cazalla: i'm not arguing that taking a gun from a cop is a bad/good thing, just that if one tries, don't be surprised if shot
BingoBoingo: !up S1deway
mircea_popescu: cazalla if one tries and fails
mircea_popescu: maybe one should be shot.
S1deway: Ok sorry
S1deway: So is the interest rate the same on shorts and longs?
cazalla: best not fail then or we hear from undata how such failure is fault of cop
mircea_popescu: Sid3waY http://trilema.com/2013/bitcoin-assets-rules-and-regulations/ there.
assbot: #bitcoin-assets rules and regulations pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/11QmHLM )
undata: cazalla: I'm merely pointing out that you enjoy assuming the nigger got what he deserved.
undata: to stop beating around the bush with "nignog"
mircea_popescu: cazalla seems to me on somewhat intuitively obvious, this. taking the gun of some armed entity is one of those things where you take your life in your hands. either you know what you're doing or don't complain at the results.
undata: who fucking knows, man
undata: but this cops killing black kids thing is pretty common in the south
mircea_popescu: undata cops sweating is also pretty common in the south.
cazalla: undata, it's not that, i just hate hearing about the injustice and all this over shit, they play it over and over in the media here and we don't even have guns or nignogs
mircea_popescu: ahahahaha
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2KCJKCJ.txt )
mircea_popescu: !b 2 ✂︎
mircea_popescu: poor cazalla.
asciilifeform: in ussr (at one time) policemen were required to walk their beat in pairs. for this reason.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i thought it was for the other reason
mircea_popescu: (one could read, one couldwrite)
mircea_popescu: or wait, no, was it "6 years schooling each, together = ged" ?
asciilifeform: it was simply against 'knock'im over the head and take pistol' thing.
mircea_popescu: you know if this helpful ddosing of noobs continues we might even not need the voice thing anymore.
undata: cazalla: where do you live?
mircea_popescu: i wonder if mr "advanced permanent threat" lol can be relied on.
cazalla: undata, down under mate, true blue aussie battler
undata imagines cazalla fighting off bush-people with his knife
cazalla: undata, nope, illegal, forget about croc dundee
undata: sad days
undata: so here's my gripe, it's not social justice
mircea_popescu: they took the knife fights from the deported now ?!
undata: where the fuck is the authority who is supposed to manage these thugs (cops) and put them to some sensible use
undata: clearly terrorizing black people is just them enjoying themselves
asciilifeform: undata: orchestrated prelude for gestapo. it'll be greeted with cheering crowds. at first.
mircea_popescu: undata police is unmanageable in the socialist state.
cazalla: undata, if the nignogs had any sense, they'd all fight the cops instead of each other, but that won't ever happen
undata: cazalla: well that was engineered though
mircea_popescu: you have to understand there are some invariants in every system. you can pick which invariants, when you design it
undata: the state made sure they never grew any leaders
mircea_popescu: you can't pick whether to have them or not.
undata: lever gardeners, they
undata: *clever
mircea_popescu: undata "the state". fuck them, they should have made sure they grew leaders.
mircea_popescu: this is why black society is inferior and arab society is not
undata: I see your point
mircea_popescu: the "state" has been trying to make sure arabs have no leaders since the days of mandate palestine.
mircea_popescu: all three socialisms tried, the british, and the russian, and the us.
mircea_popescu: they all succeeded about as splendidly.
mircea_popescu: fuck, the entire lawrence of arabia episode shows the arabs actually can make leaders OUT OF THE SOCIALIST GRUNTS
mircea_popescu: and that was no isolated incident, look how fucking paniced the socialist states are today
mircea_popescu: at the "o noes, all these 20something kids going to isis"
mircea_popescu: tell; you what, any 20 yo male that is not abortion material actually goes to isis today.
mircea_popescu: it's the place to go.
mircea_popescu: everyone that stays behind to populate reddit is plainly contemptible for this very reason.
mats_cd03: odds on the caliphate materializing in the next decade?
mircea_popescu: woman's fucking job.
mircea_popescu: mats_cd03 so close to 100%...
mats_cd03: i think so too.
undata: there's a podcaster I enjoy, Dan Carlin
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: how's pure mathematics doing in isisland ?
mircea_popescu: that sort of thing can not be stopped by obama and buterin, oscar laureates.
undata: his theory is that the caliphate is exactly what's needed
TomServo: undata: That the hardcore history guy?
undata: and even that US policy might be to help that come about, though I think that's giving too much credit
undata: TomServo: yep
mircea_popescu: that sort of thing is stopped by people like us, and in its boundless ineptitude, the us has failed to come crawling on its hands and knees begging us.
mats_cd03: eh. there's a distinct lack of officers in our ranks.
cazalla: can i just be a cop that kills random nignogs
mats_cd03: although, plenty of soldiers, i'm sure, if you were to ask...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you heard of the famous al-gorithm
mircea_popescu: aka khwarizmi ?
undata: cazalla wants his knife back
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: who hasn't. how many al-kwarizmis among isis now ?
mircea_popescu: mats_cd03 actual officers.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how would you know ? hollywood too busy giving prizes to shitfall.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: perhaps as many as there are archimedes among modern greeks ?
mats_cd03: i suppose i'd do ok as a company grade officer.
mircea_popescu: the substantial difference being that greece is a colony today.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: afaik isis is about as interesting as the iranian revolution. and for the same reason.
mircea_popescu: our data does not match.
undata: at least ISIS is explicit about their aims
mircea_popescu: isis is about as interesting as the columbian farc, except not bound by low population and tiny geograpgy.
undata: that's what drives me crazy about the US; nobody ever just says what's actual
undata: "White cop shot black kid for fun."
undata: or because he was scared
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: yes, i get that anti-intellectual 'black hundreds' phenomena are an expected thing. yes, they're inevitable after corrupt 'scientocracies' fuck up the planet. but - it still sucks.
undata: "Citizen, your banks own you."
mircea_popescu: undata in a world where pretense is allowed, truth is necessarily disallowed.
undata: I'd take a king who said what he was up to any day.
mircea_popescu: it all starts with idiots who "wish to be polite"
cazalla: undata, pretty sure that is what they imply though eh
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'A revolution without dancing is not a revolution' but - s/dancing/mathematics
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i do not see that such anti-intellectual stuff is anything but 2nd layer us propaganda re isis.
undata: "Look I'm moving you peasants from this city to that because I want my rocket launch site there"
undata: fine! great!
mircea_popescu: like me hanging by their fallopian tubes all us "social sciences" professors
mircea_popescu: and then being accused of "anti intellectualianism"
mircea_popescu: orly ?
undata: the US is like that creepy, abusive parent that tells you everything is for your own good
mircea_popescu: "evil warlord killed 5698048605 tenured professors in the us"
BingoBoingo: Are there even that many?
mthreat: mircea_popescu: did you see this - http://bubblear.com/hey-beautiful/
assbot: Buenos Aires' SlutWalk: Marcha de las Putas Takes On Machismo | The Bubble | News from Argentina ... ( http://bit.ly/11QqCrU )
bagels7: im canadian, and stupid canadian bitches on tv would rather say americans are not stupid than be impolite
mircea_popescu: mthreat i had not.
mircea_popescu: and its improbable it happened seeing how they all happen right under my window.
mats_cd03: asciilifeform: i get the distinct impression that tools in volatile memory forensics are still relatively primitive (compared to disk forensics) in lots of ways ... Volatility and friends have developed a better understanding of win internals, but much of what they principally do is still brute force scanning. is this observation accurate? i'm fairly amateur
mats_cd03: in this field
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: where are the noteworthy intellectual achievements of the new caliphate? e.g., are they throwing out winblows (and not via return to 15th c. tech) ? who is paid to think thoughts in the lands of the new flag, and what kind of thoughts ?
undata: asciilifeform: who knows through the fog of propaganda
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so far, 99% of the thoughts are "haxx the web"
undata: I've read they banned chemistry
undata: sounds pretty absurd
mircea_popescu: i've not heard of this.
mats_cd03: BingoBoingo: you know, i suddenly realized today when browsing your /. page that you're the reason why i'm here -- i saw your 'Bitcoin Baron' and OpenBSD headline and decided to pop in to see what was up
mircea_popescu is not an authoerity on wtf isis does in any case.
mats_cd03: BingoBoingo: so, thanks.
BingoBoingo: You're welcome mats_cd03
undata: mircea_popescu: http://english.alarabiya.net/en/perspective/features/2014/08/16/ISIS-calls-for-an-Islamic-curriculum-in-Syria-s-Raqa.html
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/11Qr9Ki )
undata googles the owners of al arabiya
asciilifeform: undata: forget for a minute the propaganda. think of the starting material. if you were told that 'perhaps the modern greeks are intellectual giants, but u.s. propaganda obscures this' would you believe? or be justifiably skeptical.
mircea_popescu: undata okay but we weren't discussing k12 here.
undata: asciilifeform: oh shit, I mean to cut through it, I'm sure they're backwards as hell
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what if you were told the same about russians ?
asciilifeform: aha islamic curriculum. i'm not seeing 'we'll kill adelberger & co. and force al schwartz's equivalence principle violation experiment to be carried out.'
undata: I'm also sure I'd be told they fuck babies if it would persuade me to support another war
mircea_popescu: the russians being a fine example. i could readily stroke the same public knowledge to elicit a "I'm sure they're backwards as hell".
cazalla: mats_cd03, did ya know BingoBoingo's /. posts are responsible for qntra's record traffic day and that reddit doesn't even come close
asciilifeform: mats_cd03: generally folks who have usefully sharp tools and actually understand microshit guts - aren't talking. because what is to be gained from public talk.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform take it another way : where do i have a better chance to sell the experiment being tried ? wash dc, london or baghdad ?
undata: mircea_popescu: right, doesn't war tend to be about brutality, dominance, etc?
undata: atrocities happen on all sides of war
mircea_popescu: THIS is m y point exactly. whether they do or don't do better atm is immaterial. they WILL do better, necessarily, because they don't share the same lockdowns
mats_cd03: asciilifeform: sad face.
mircea_popescu: and they don't for political reasons.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: may as well ask 'where's the better chance, mars or venus? and ant civilization or cockroach civilization'
chetty: you know MP recent article about press in Romania, big problem here is that Romanians knew from experience how bias the press is, Americans haven't figured it out yet.
mircea_popescu: once they establish some sort of state, they'll try shit.
mircea_popescu: they'll try shit with the desperation of stalin trying on shit.
mircea_popescu: or peron for that matter. recall his 1950s attempts to make fusion work ?
mircea_popescu: and im pretty sure isis is the first place with a serenissima embassy, for that matter.
undata: they're already beating the war drum in the media here regarding Syria, Iraq, etc
undata: amazing that the US can hold firm to the PNAC through decades
undata: at least we can focus on our own ruin, if nothing else
mircea_popescu: cazalla> did ya know that reddit doesn't even come close << yes. i knew.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: iran - 'tried shit.' i would need serious evidence of pig flight before believing that fundamentalist clerical revolutions are anything other than usg 'yi yi zhi yi' methods.
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/spamming-reddit-an-experiment/ etc.
assbot: Spamming reddit, an "experiment". pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/11QsO2y )
cazalla: undata, is that not a good thing though? spending is accelerated etc
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a) only an ideology can foment revolution ; b) all ideologies are reducible to ideologies. socialism, religion, take your pick. "democracy"
mircea_popescu: you're begging the question here.
mircea_popescu: all that matters is that
mircea_popescu: it's a new state, AGAINST the current morass.
mircea_popescu: this has to be supported merely because it hurts nato.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: human material matters.
mircea_popescu: the arabs are provedly not inferior material.
mircea_popescu: if this happened in africa you could murder me on this score, which is why we're not here talking about the numerous much larger rebellions all over subsaharan africa past decades.
undata: hm, just had the thought that maybe this is exactly how people *find* a good leader
undata: quick! erect the pyramid and he'll find the top
mircea_popescu: but the arabs already proved themselves. in fact, we even have sciences and arts at all because the arabs kept them while the west was being all "progressive" the last tim around.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: so far usg is keeping these folks intensely interested in clitori butterfly collections and not the least bit in higher mathematics, without apparently breaking a sweat.
mircea_popescu: i don't see that flow of causality.
mircea_popescu: the usg is as related to this as the fly on the radiator related to the car crash.
mircea_popescu: they are cutting up women because they're desperately trying to resolve the significant sociopolitical problem of carin what women think.
mircea_popescu: they're currently going through the "hate them" phase. perhaps this may soon resolve al-fucking-ready.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: let's put it this way - the arab lands burn, and we know the arsonist - usg. who can say that arsonist is not still in control?
mircea_popescu: i do not see either of these.
mircea_popescu: what "burn" ? what we know ?
undata: asciilifeform: I wonder the same thing: is it a matter of policy to help re-establish a caliphate?
mircea_popescu: anyway, the discussion of whether we like or dislike isis is to be had once isis is a thing.
chetty: I'm not so sure about the human material, Egyptians can't read maps ...
mircea_popescu: so far it's not a thing yet, and it should be supported, merely to ruin more of the socialist world.
mircea_popescu: chetty i can see that angle.
mats_cd03: cazalla: i'm not surprised, /. would be a better audience than reddit
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i would go so far as to say that isis is the thing that made the us destroy its permanent installations in baghdad, something that has not happened since china beatthem in vietnam.
mircea_popescu: this alone is good credentials, but consider : 50 trn is the us going to pay over the next 50 years for that war, and they were sent home by isis.
mircea_popescu: as far as any observer can determine, isis burned 50 trn worth of us soil.
mircea_popescu: we see the burning, we know the arsonist, could we not say isis in in control of the us today ?
undata: mircea_popescu: I've seen it mentioned several times that "ISIS" is the face of a force non-negligibly comprised of former baathists, etc
undata: who is to say what it ends up looking like
undata: maybe those guys end up outcompeting the religious idiots from within
mircea_popescu: undata if i sent my spymaster there, and she operated without constraint and superhuman power to report,
mircea_popescu: i'd still take her reports with a grain of salt.
mircea_popescu: imagine the whole saltmines of salt i need for all these other "reports"
mircea_popescu: !up saifedean
mircea_popescu: hey there s. we were just talkin bout isis. how do you take that ? :D
bagels7: Hi, Im new so I was hoping you could link me to the most relevent articles since I only have 5 per week
mircea_popescu: bagels7 relevant to what ?
bagels7: relevent to being aware of the world or just being sucessful
mircea_popescu: ugh that's a tough one.
bagels7: im 26 years old and im not particularly educated
mircea_popescu: generally the way this works is someone asks a question and sometimes i pop an article out. but they're generally much more concrete.
undata: bagels7: high five, 27 and college dropout
mircea_popescu: mebbe someone in your position contribures what looked best to them ?
bagels7: undata: me too, but i flucked out due to paying for rent and food rather than school stuff
undata: bagels7: spend the 4 bucks or whatever and pay the man
undata: it's worth it
jurov: mircea_popescu i don't get it, what sets isis aart from iran and taleban?
jurov: *papart
bagels7: can i use a credit card
jurov: or you have embassies in the later?
undata: bagels7: I left because college in texas is a fucking joke
asciilifeform: i'm with jurov on this one. both 'sent usa home' with tail between legs. and remain dreary idiot peasant uprisings.
mircea_popescu: papart lol.
bagels7: undata: so you just got a job instead?
mircea_popescu: jurov i don't recall a humiliating defeat of the us and its allies at the hands of either iran or taleban.
undata: bagels7: I'd held software jobs since 16, just went back to existing contacts for work
undata: now I'm doing my own thing in software
asciilifeform: cia muppet state smashed in iran.
mircea_popescu: the shah ?!
asciilifeform: aha
mircea_popescu: sure, if you want to melt the cheese you can go "and taleban bombed nyc"
mircea_popescu: maybe my judgement is idiosyncratic, but i don't see it.
undata: bagels7: I sought good mentors along the way who beat sensible habits into me
undata: as I'd hoped college would do
undata: hence lurking here and trying to absorb things from the polymaths present
chetty: undata much better off these days with real mentors than college
bagels7: my intelligence has greatly been reduced, my dad was an idiot, i wanted a computer since i was 13 but they only got one my second semester of college
mircea_popescu: intelligence doesn't reduce lol.
bagels7: back then I had a brain and motivation to learn, now i don't care. let white society burn
mircea_popescu: pretty much the only sunny spot in human existence.
bagels7: well my brain capacity to render images
mircea_popescu: so you'll make a shittier videoprojector ?
asciilifeform: early encounter with computer is not necessarily good for your mind.
mircea_popescu: lottery ticket really.
bagels7: no no brain images, in my mind
bagels7: i can visualise complicated 3d shapes
mircea_popescu: bagels7 think of it this way : most of the graybeards that we respect met computers in their 50s, after fucking with paper for a long time.
mircea_popescu: all the people we think are ok met computers in college
mircea_popescu: virtually all the imbeciles we despise had computers as children.
bagels7: i dont respect much gray hair anymore, due to being deceived with their lies
mircea_popescu: graybeards is a term of art
bagels7: i didn't major in art, :/
chetty: lesson 1 bagels7 , judge things one at a time, not in groups
mircea_popescu: a term of art is a word that has a speciffic meaning within a discipline.
mircea_popescu: in this case, graybeard in computing means a true expert.
bagels7: well i knew that much
mircea_popescu: the minskys and kuhns and whatnot
mircea_popescu: actually, is linus a graybeard ?
mircea_popescu: or still too young
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20750 @ 0.00042898 = 8.9013 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: linus? lol, never!
mircea_popescu: lol k
bagels7: im not sure i get your point.
asciilifeform: can debate, but he fails a number of basic tests for the category, not limited to age
mircea_popescu: !up omen1855
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how about stallman ?
bagels7: I'm still rovering from the jehovah witness's and religious brainwashing
undata: stallman gets emacs points, doesn't he?
mircea_popescu: i think that part's disputed.
omen1855: thank you
mircea_popescu: bagels7 so then be welcome in our cult ranks!
jurov: bagels7: you were just properly raised by mircea_popescu's standards
mircea_popescu: omen1855 sure. who're you ?
mircea_popescu: jurov wait wut ?!
undata: bagels7: I was raised revelations-cult christian
undata: same difference eh?
asciilifeform: i'd include stallman - but my picture of 'graybeard' is about having experienced 'real computing'
jurov: mircea_popescu beatings and brainwashing
bagels7: idk 6 hours of week for church and spankings if you talked or moved too much for not being able to sit still for 2 hours
undata: bagels7: don't give in to that victim mentality
mircea_popescu: undata is this one of those where kids get bored so they claim to see jesus and adults get all excited "because kids can't lie" and then the primary attention getting mechanism available to kids is making wild religious revelation claims ?
undata: who cares
chetty: asciilifeform, you mean like strung core?
bagels7: the beatings were way worse than any bdsm "master" i had
undata: mircea_popescu: well yeah but needs more 'bama
undata: :D
mircea_popescu: jurov beatings, sure. im not for brainwashing!
omen1855: someone who used to come here on occasion last year, no celebrity
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so then mel is your patriarch ?
jurov: but you're for isis
mircea_popescu: jurov politics.
asciilifeform: chetty: not specifically magnetic core. but the general principle, of a machine built for intelligent, educated folks, who are -expected to understand- it.
mircea_popescu: <bagels7> idk 6 hours of week for church and spankings if you talked or moved too much for not being able to sit still for 2 hours << that part's great. stfu and sit put.
bagels7: undata: I'm a victim, I don't have a victim mentality. there is a difference. I did not have the slighest victi mentality from age 4 to age 22 concerning my mom leaving me
jurov: mircea_popescu: how it can be divided from politics? "yeah they're utterly brainwashed zealots, but otherwise i like their political views"???
mircea_popescu: jurov my position is, "their enemies which i don't particularly care for claim they be evil, but otherwise also got beat to shit". this i can go for.
undata: bagels7: touchy subject I'm sure; it'd take nuance to get my point about it across
mircea_popescu: jurov are you reading arabic reports anyway ?
undata: every human shoves along every other human as he/she can; religion's not a special case of that
jurov: not reading
mircea_popescu: because if you're reading the guardian&co, what you see there is coming out of the same sifon that yields the "putin is insane" spritz.
jurov: he isn't insane.i'm merely concerned his doings might get me killed
bagels7: i worked harder than anyone in my class and people would just say im smart so its easy for me and not a bid deal. I was learning japanese because I wanted to go to japan. but my cousin decided to go 5 years later on a whim because well she had suport for every step in her life where as me her mom and my dad held me back. Im just not planning on curing ebola or anything anytime soon.
bagels7: Can't I just make an honest living
chetty: we need правда
mircea_popescu: jurov so if that's your concern oyu gotta move.
bagels7: jehovah witnesses are child abusers and well I'm going to do something about it!
bagels7: maybe have a sunday protest
undata: that's sure to raise awareness
asciilifeform: bagels7: Can't I just make an honest living << at what?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26250 @ 0.00043014 = 11.2912 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: bagels7 the best advice for you is to a) create a list of 100 classical texts written before 1800 ; b) spend two weeks reading NOTHING online but that. not anything. not a single page of popurls or whatever. none.
mircea_popescu: then you'll be in a better position to appreciate the inanity currently rotting your brain away.
jurov: i will probably move if it keeps progressing... what was the argument?
undata: mircea_popescu: such a reading list would be a welcome post
mircea_popescu: jurov you didn't like my position on isis and i was trying to articulate it.
mircea_popescu: (your dislike i mean)
asciilifeform: jurov: wait wat!? isis has come to your town ?
jurov: noo, mircea is pulling putin into the discussion
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i said "because if you're reading the guardian&co, what you see there is coming out of the same sifon that yields the "putin is insane" spritz."
jurov: i think what i think because i'm watching RT, too.
undata: jurov: where are you?
mircea_popescu: right, which is how you know he's just realpolitiking all over nuland's face, ass and tits.
jurov: if isis becomes concern, then i may consider their propaganda, too
jurov: undata: slovakia
mircea_popescu: so far their ideology pretty much reduces to "anything us is evil" as best i can tell.
mircea_popescu: this is not necessarily a bankrupt approach, arguably even better fitted than "everything us is good"
mircea_popescu: which is in and of itself the saddest indictment one can ever hear about any state.
jurov: i also heard there's an approach somewhere "mircea_popescu is evil"
mircea_popescu: imagine, random chance a better bet. that's the fucking antithesis of statality.
mircea_popescu: im sure there is.
bagels7: yeah my boyfriend saw trilema and was like "that guy is a terrorist" just from the look
undata: oh dear
mircea_popescu: o.O
bagels7: does the US "governemnt" kill more inocent people than isis
mircea_popescu: depends on your definition of innocent.
undata: jurov: do you think he's after more than just involving ukraine in a permanent border dispute to foul potential nato membership?
bagels7: innocent as in collateral damage
mircea_popescu: undata the seaports is the problem.
jurov: undata: there's parallels to sudetenland annexion and numerous other historical precedents.. it's very unlikely putin just stops there.
mircea_popescu: look at it from moscow's pov. 1) the us builds a large base at constanta, once europe's largest port by tdw, and mere miles from the russian bases at sevastopol
mircea_popescu: 2) ukraine "joins nato". so what, all of russia to be served by vladivostok ?
mircea_popescu: jurov so he gets what, romania ?
jurov: transnistria, maybe
mircea_popescu: or else, a landbridge to serbia via bulgaria ?
mircea_popescu: nobody fucking wants transnistria gtfo.
mircea_popescu: it's like wanting somaliland.
BingoBoingo: Eh, Putin just needs to cozy up to Cuba
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo it's interdictable.
mircea_popescu: what any large power needs are land connections to ports all around.
jurov: ok, so you say he just makes land bridge to crimea and then everything stops.
mircea_popescu: i don't see why he'd care about anything but sevastopol, myself.
asciilifeform: roach extermination will not stop (unless usg somehow rids itself of mr p)
BingoBoingo: Sure, but if Obola can have Costana, Putin can have a naval base just outside of Guantanamo
mircea_popescu: i doubt he wants it.
mircea_popescu: the russkis understand bases are expensive.
mircea_popescu: in a way teh pentagon doesn't quite yet.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37100 @ 0.00042282 = 15.6866 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: usg/nato to ru: 'stop running your nose into my fist!'
mircea_popescu: how do you figure that one !?
asciilifeform: 1) create fictional countries carved out of opponent's meat 2) prattle on about 'democracy' and 'legitimacy' 3) ??? 4) profit
jurov: since when this area is ussr's meat?
asciilifeform: jurov: since europe tried to 'grab its gun' in '41 and failed.
mircea_popescu: seems tenuous.
mircea_popescu: if anything, ukraine is part of poland.
mircea_popescu: well, whatever, southern parts romania, but lettuce not quibble :D
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the part with illiterate idiots (west) - yes
mircea_popescu: right.
mircea_popescu: anyway, european borders. never an established matter.
mircea_popescu: the salic law of succession specifically had a 5) and thou shalt not have fixed borders in there.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-06-2014#719530 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-06-2014#719531 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-06-2014#719532 ☝︎☝︎☝︎
assbot: Logged on 15-06-2014 02:28:38; asciilifeform: 'the Western blok... preferred to view the Eastern European nations as victims of Soviet aggression, ignoring the simple and manly fact (that would have been instantly understood by a Roman) that Soviet legions, without anyone's help, took possession of Eastern Europe via force of arms, answering aggression with aggression. And the Roman would an absurdity - he could not comprehend, in the name of wha
assbot: Logged on 15-06-2014 02:28:38; asciilifeform: moral justice the legions ought to forsake the lands for which they had paid with their blood. Not only is the transference of conceptions of morality to the evaluation of historical events a phony method, but, if we recall, the moralists - the defeated European nations and the Americans, enemies of the USSR - that is to say, non-impartial moralists - their condemnations sound hollow indeed. The offen
assbot: Logged on 15-06-2014 02:28:38; asciilifeform: of course, unphased by this. We know now that their strategy of psychological war turned out to be a correct one... To establish the injustice, the 'meanness' of the enemy in a moralistic war is every bit as important as winning a pitched battle in a hot war.'
undata: http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2014/02/20140220_ukr7.png
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1y9mWyf )
undata: seems like that plays a part ^
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that "without anyone';s help is nonsense". for one thing, there were 3 romanian armies there
mircea_popescu: !up saifedean
jurov: asciilifeform yes that's russian myth you did it yourselves.
jurov: in fact, staling could push to vienna in 1944
jurov: using areas liberated by slovak nationa uprising
asciilifeform: mail corrections to herr limonov. the basic point stands - ru owned these folks every bit as 'legitimately' as rome owned anything. and then it walked out because its brain was under the control of alien pederasts. whose tendrils are being ejected, slowly but surely.
jurov: but they preferred to shoot themselves in the foot
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform was aurelian under control of alien pederasts ?
jurov: it was actually under control of the pederasts *between 1918-198x*
asciilifeform: jurov: i'm aware of the nuances, yes. incl. herr tito's story.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58750 @ 0.00042121 = 24.7461 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: jurov: 1918 pederasts 'took their land from the wooden plow to atomic bomb.'
mircea_popescu: which way does this proof cut ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1350 @ 0.00122461 = 1.6532 BTC [+] {3}
jurov: so? pakistan has atomic bomb too
mircea_popescu: lol.
jurov: meanwhile, murdered vast swathes of own people
mircea_popescu: geopolitics, gotta love em. nobody can keep straight wtf's going on for five lines.
asciilifeform: jurov: pakistan has it with '90s tech. perhaps an eric frein-style weirdo can have one with 2020s tech.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well... but but the wooden plow people had it with 50s tech ?
undata: http://www.amazon.com/The-Radioactive-Boy-Scout-Backyard/dp/037550351X
assbot: The Radioactive Boy Scout: The True Story of a Boy and His Backyard Nuclear Reactor: Ken Silverstein: 9780375503511: Amazon.com: Books ... ( http://bit.ly/1y6u7pW )
asciilifeform: lol, nobody kills 'own people.' you kill 'evil wreckers', dontcha know!
mircea_popescu: or blacks.
asciilifeform: boyscout << tiresome story, endlessly repeated. no chain reaction, nor was it possible.
jurov: there were millions of 'evil wreckers' in ussr?
jurov: do tell
mircea_popescu: jurov i think you miss the points where he's being facetious
mircea_popescu: for teh lulz.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the q i want answered asciilifeform is re aurelian!
jurov: well... and i'm still genuinely interested what he thinks about ussr's eugenic program (gulags)
mircea_popescu: no wai the gulags can be reduced as "eugenic programs"
jurov: ooh, it was more than that?
jurov: do tell again
mircea_popescu: let's work a model jurov. suppose you're me, and suppose you're stuck doing what i think best (stalin -> lenin relationship)
mircea_popescu: suppose you end up in charge of the us. now, there happens to exist public record of me saying something about social sciences, professors and fallopian tubes.
mircea_popescu: what do you do ?
mircea_popescu: seems putting them all in a large nude colony in montana may work.
mircea_popescu: does it ?
mircea_popescu: would it then be an "eugenics program" ?
assbot: Last 5 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0SEPWY9.txt )
BingoBoingo: !b 5 ✂︎
jurov: if these colony members won't procreate, then basicaly yes
asciilifeform: ru eugenics << wat, with lysenko's theories of heritability? lol!
mircea_popescu: ya srsly.
mircea_popescu: jurov well that's then a narrow view you're more than welcome to
mircea_popescu: but should perhaps preface the general statement with a clue. "as far as everything's eugenics, then gulags are eugenics"
asciilifeform: what about aurelian ?
jurov: it's my own nickname for them meant to rile up stan
mircea_popescu: jurov not sure you realise the problem with your thinking here, but anyway : is homosexuality an eugenic experiment ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform he also retreated.
mircea_popescu: since the romans were being used as the measurement unit.
asciilifeform: aha
assbot: jborkl +v failed; L1: 0, L2: 0
asciilifeform: strategic retreat, iirc, no ?
jurov: what? how?
mircea_popescu: !up jborkl
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but was he being mindcontrolled by aliens.
ben_vulpes: "requires you to get health coverage by the end of the open enrollment period on February 15. If you don’t, this year you’ll have to pay a penalty of $325 per adult or 2 percent of your household income -- whichever is higher." << death of self insurance in the usg
mircea_popescu: orly, 325 or 2% whichever is higher ?!
jurov: ahhh, isee. no homosexuals were not prevented from procreation by "science of people"
ben_vulpes: "give us (healthcare mafia) your money, or else - give us (ordinary communist mafia) your money"
mircea_popescu: jurov no the criteria you enounciated.
jborkl: Thank you, Mircea I added a section to https://www.bcoinnews.com/mpex/ . If there is anything that needs to be changed just let me know
assbot: Latest MPEx: Bitcoin Stock Trades |Global Bitcoin News ... ( http://bit.ly/1y9pJaF )
jborkl: all the naked people would freeze in Montana, heh
mircea_popescu: jborkl cool!
jurov: okay my other criterion was that eugenics victims are barred from procreation by "science"
mircea_popescu: not feminists, they got thick scales over all that fat.
jurov: and since soviet govt boasted about being "governed by science" here we are
asciilifeform: what 20th c. mega-empire didn't boast of 'science'? it's nearly obligatory, like the christianity of european kings
mircea_popescu: ^
ben_vulpes: nevermind that 325/mo doesn't buy *shit* insurance here.
mircea_popescu: exactly the right simile there.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes so laughable, most of the world lives on less than that.
mircea_popescu: in the us tho, you can't even buy insurance
mircea_popescu: us must be fucking dangerous ?
jborkl: well, health insurance for 2 adults and 2 kids is more than my house payment
jurov: i did not mean to pull words. in short, ussr killed so many own people so that ended up with shrinking population
jurov: and i don't see how atomic bomb or other achievements can fix that
asciilifeform: jurov: maximizing meat now?
jurov: ?
undata: asciilifeform: at what point would you consider that waste?
asciilifeform: jurov: what, exactly, do we need exponentially growing meat mass for ?
cazalla: bagels7: I'm still rovering from the jehovah witness's and religious brainwashing <<< holy shit, i'm not the only one to suffer this in #b-a
mircea_popescu: apparently we attract you cultish lot!
jurov: where did i say exponentially growing? i said shrinking
undata: asciilifeform: seems like you have a little confirmation bias in there
asciilifeform: jurov: aha, shrinking. but you implied that this is a problem.
undata: "They were killing people and also sputnik therefore killing people."
jurov: if they somehow avoid being overran by chinese then i'll say it isn't a problem
jurov: not before
jurov: in say 20 years
cazalla: bagels7: the beatings were way worse than any bdsm "master" i had <<< lol same, jugcord here, never knew when it might strike or for what reason
bagels7: well there was that one time he broke a spatula that came on par
bagels7: but i totally provoked him
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: american doctors are dangerously expensive
cazalla: bagels7, spatula? you got it easy then
undata: ben_vulpes: when do they start taxing you if you don't have insurance?
undata: feb 15?
bagels7: meh my dad would hurt his hand and he has tough man hands from physcal work all is life
jurov: asciilifeform: and you imply mass trimming ot meat is somwhow necessary. thus, eugenics.
ben_vulpes: undata: yee
bagels7: cazalla: least it wasnt a bat
ben_vulpes: undata: group buy?
undata: ben_vulpes: is it cheaper to just pay the tax?
undata: might be for me, maybe not for you
bagels7: there are 1000s of jehovah witness stories like our, endless pages of forums
cazalla: bagels7, so you're no longer in the truth eh, i must tell you that #b-a is rather worldly
undata: I'm going to be spending a lot of the business income on moar business for a good while
asciilifeform: jurov: meat tends to trim self if left to own devices. spitting on gulag while cheering, say, czar's famines, is like the folks who 'love small business and despise megacorps' here in usa. poorly thought out logic.
bagels7: cazalla: I decided to stop going when i was 15 but then my aunt played her protestant brainwashing guilt trip shit on me
jurov: i'm cheering czar's famines? TIL
bagels7: my aunt who i was living with who decided i could trust her like a mother, i felt more betrayed by her than my bio mother
jurov: long live the romanovs!!!1
asciilifeform: this always bugged me. somehow folks think that starving to death under czar was like dying of co poisoning in a mercedes to the tune of classical music, but starving in ussr is starving in a dumpster with broken glass.
jurov: i was facetions this time
jurov: *facetious
undata: couldn't we like... you know... not starve... man?
jurov: imo both these famines were incredibly wasteful, as there's plenty of arable land
undata: at least this seems like a weird focus
undata: sound money, rule of law, and I think we'd get to a place where most people can at least find food
undata: let alone send robots to comets or whatever you're into
jurov: basically, as if aliens came and prevented peasants to cultivate it, because atomic bomb was more important
asciilifeform: detectably plenty of starvation in ancient world, even with 'sound money' and good management
bagels7: they didnt have tchonology like today?
jurov: afaik it was *not* plant starvation in ussr
undata: asciilifeform: what about when you let that run for a while
asciilifeform: mass upheavals plus labour-intensive agriculture -> famine, generally
undata: sure maybe starvation at first, but why the belief that it will always be there?
jurov: all i can say, my parents and grandparents watched all this from some hundred miles away and considered it unbelievable
asciilifeform: undata: in the general, 'malthusian' case - where could it possibly go?
jurov: and it was *after* mechanized agriculture was available
undata: asciilifeform: there are innumerable things I could do in the present moment that I don't because they don't seem sensible
undata: one of those being fucking until the pile of human flesh I've produced is visible from space
asciilifeform: jurov: available to whom? at what cost? tractors dropped from sky on demand?
jurov: if they could make tanks, why not tractors?
undata: jurov: my folks grow enough to have everything they need, and the food they produce is delicious
asciilifeform: jurov: tank is a particular type of tractor, let's say. it cultivates sovereignty (or did, in the age of the tank, but why nitpick) rather than edibles. ☟︎☟︎☟︎
jurov: and there was no such famine in eastern eutope outside russia inn 20th century
jurov: *europe
asciilifeform: without sovereignty, 'your' tractor - isn't yours. it belongs (along with your starfish) to the big boys. ☟︎☟︎
jurov: but i see you insist... no help here
jurov: germans made tanks too, and did not even had so much arable soil.. no famines there, too
undata: asciilifeform: that a sovereign can do whatever he pleases doesn't necessarily proceed to "therefore he stole all my things and left me in mud"
undata: this comes up a lot in here; why does that follow?
undata: that was my "masturbation implement" rant
jurov: asciilifeform just keeps coming with excuses why his drunkard compatriots can't fend for thmeselves so well
asciilifeform: jurov: feel free to travel back in time and teach lenin et. al. how to retain sovereignty for their country (that is, no colonization, no cultivation of dependence on hostile west) without, well, the cost.
asciilifeform: lol, that my drunken compatriots could not fend for themselves, is as obvious as gravity.
BingoBoingo: The Usian Gendarmie is probably going to have a lot of horses http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2014/11/19/police_horse_study_increases_trust_authors_say.html
assbot: Police horse study: Increases trust, authors say. ... ( http://bit.ly/1y9tE7t )
jurov: yes it is obvious. there was no famine in the 1990s only because govt came to senses and gave people their own soil
jurov: lenin could do that in 1918
jurov: but no, we cant have kulaks
asciilifeform: jurov: amateur gardens, yes. the traditional 100 sq. metres.
jurov: yes, that's what i mean
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> jurov: maximizing meat now? << as far as i can tell, there's a certain subgroup of transhumanists for whom even the faintest hint of discussion as to whether rivers of meat is the correct minimaxing is "eugenics" which is to say their local equivalent of "fascist" ie, very bad mkay.
asciilifeform: jurov: try to see the difference between 'i like kolkhoz' and 'what they did, made sense'.
undata: mircea_popescu: not-maximizing isn't the same as actively grinding away at your population until as jurov points out the numbers start to really dwindle
mircea_popescu: <cazalla> bagels7: the beatings were way worse than any bdsm "master" i had <<< lol same << lol wait, bagels7 is into bdsm ?
undata: surely you need *some* population or what's this sovereignty over?
undata: this to me sounds like a very wealthy man lighting his wealth on fire to display sovereignty
asciilifeform: jurov: and realize that the blowback from present-day usg idiocy will make lenin et. al. look reasonable and gentle. see earlier thread re: isis.
undata: sure, he's sovereign, and he's destroying himself
jurov: asciilifeform: here they did like kolkhozs to an amount bacuse it wasn't done so violently
mircea_popescu: <undata> this to me sounds like a very wealthy man lighting his wealth on fire to display sovereignty << afaik the only possible honest signal is exactly this.
undata: hm, interesting
mircea_popescu: by definition you know ? if you're not hurtin yourself then why wouldn't it be fake.
asciilifeform: jurov: incidentally, the most well-founded historical model of gulag etc. i know of is - that meat grinder was built, and became the proverbial 'self-licking icecream cone' after running short on the designated feedstock. a la french rev.
ben_vulpes: undata: if you're taking home more than 16.5K as an individual, it's not cheaper.
undata: ben_vulpes: dumb, k
asciilifeform: there is every reason to expect this behaviour from future meat grinders.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what is us academia if not exactly this ?
asciilifeform: re: wealth on fire:
mircea_popescu: how is it not a gulag ?
asciilifeform: !s stotting
assbot: 5 results for 'stotting' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=stotting
jurov: asciilifeform: and you prefer it would not came crashing down or what?
undata: mircea_popescu: I see the point about a genuine display of power
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in the land of 'soft power' - soft gulag. (almost inevitably hands want to say 'soft cocks' also.)
undata: I suppose it depends on the situation as to how much of a display is needed
jurov: just because it was so idiotic it crashed without inflictiong so much damage as usg did/does
mircea_popescu: jurov do you believe that out of two possible situations, the one with more people in it is always best ?
undata: were gulags needed to organize peasants into industrial workers?
mircea_popescu: because if you don't then by your definitions eugenics, and if you do wtf you doing in slovakia instead of say b-a.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform perhaps because it is the case.
mircea_popescu: but hey, viagra plugged that hole.
jurov: he one with less people in it is always best, either ?
mircea_popescu: nope.
mircea_popescu: just, headcount is irrelevant in a discussion of bestness.
jurov: i don't see slaughtering own people in such idiotic manner could be better outcome
jurov: if you do, how so?
asciilifeform: undata: basic mechanics here. peasants do not actually need the city-dwellers for anything (at least at the ru circa 1917 tech level.) why should they feed them, if asked nicely? and why would they wish to move to the city and waste away in factories, merely if asked nicely?
mircea_popescu: jurov well, his argument was that from plow to nuke.
mircea_popescu: if he makes it whole and says "without the gulags, from congo to CAR"
mircea_popescu: then you can see a line there.
mircea_popescu: why did i kill andreas derpopo for that matter ?
mircea_popescu: so others can learn from his corpse, right ?
asciilifeform: ultimately, being a builder of industry at the 1917 (or even today's) tech level, fundamentally sucks. as in, the same way being in prison sucks. so stalin et. al. tried experiment: what if being a peasant sucked -more- ? and - it worked. ☟︎
jurov: US did do without gulags. until recently
undata: asciilifeform: I see that; in the US many tactics were used, among them property tactics, etc., to coerce people into the cities
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform at least, this;'d be the "most favourable possible ulterior retrospective construction"
undata: *property taxes
mircea_popescu: undata just look at how the southerners were coerce to become yanks after the war.
asciilifeform: there is also the 'they're idiot orcs' construction. which isn't even false, because, well, orcs.
mircea_popescu: they still resent it lol.
asciilifeform: but 'orcs suck and should simply kill themselves instead of sullying the planet with their stench' is not a historical argument.
undata: mircea_popescu: the southern cock will rise again!
undata: :p
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yet the us seems to be bringing it a whole lot these days lol
bagels7: you actually kill people....
asciilifeform: to a 'human', what can be more revolting than an 'orc.' now where was that prison film review by mircea_popescu ?
jurov: i'm confudes now...if its' a good thing, you should then admire the US for its gulag system
jurov: *confused
asciilifeform: the one with 'height of the tallest building' ?
mircea_popescu: bagels7 well, internet-killings.
mircea_popescu: uh
bagels7: bare handed internet-killngs, k got it
undata: wut
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/un-prophete/ ?
assbot: Un prophète pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1y9vEMZ )
asciilifeform: jurov: u.s. gulag system, afaik, is merely an expensive waste of time, like their aircraft carriers.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: yes! it.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "but nobody would dare sink a carrier, because THEN ITD MEAN THEYRE SERIOUS ANBD FOR REAL!!!!"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: but i brought it up on account of 'orcs' rather than gulag. what orcs look like to human.
mircea_popescu: and nobody could conceivably wish to do anything *seriously*
mircea_popescu: this sort of ablated hipsterism is what passes for strategic thinking in the us.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha. in the words of herr kokkarinen: 'modern hipster is not being rogered, because the cock is entering ironically(tm)'
mircea_popescu: the entire "putin doesn't understand how thwe world works" and "oh horror x! oh horror y!" is really the voice of a deconstructed postmodern intellect confronted with the sheer obscenity of reality.
mircea_popescu: the substance of the squal of the little girl confronted with the underside of a large boulder exposed to air
mircea_popescu: that's it.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: also tied in to your 'then the centurion walks in, a different kind of man' story.
mircea_popescu: which one is that one ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'the west gate fell. all is lost.' that one
mircea_popescu: oh oh .
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/the-idea-for-a-great-film/
assbot: The idea for a great film... pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1FllE3z )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha! it.
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mircea_popescu: bagels7 so what do you do for a living anyway
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mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> detectably plenty of starvation in ancient world, even with 'sound money' and good management << quite. famine is a great motivator, and to be honest i do not see why half the population should not at all points be hungry.
mircea_popescu: they don't like it, let them displace the other half.
mircea_popescu: <bagels7> they didnt have tchonology like today? <<< they didn't need it, because they weren't nearly as many.
mircea_popescu: <jurov> and it was *after* mechanized agriculture was available << it was not at all available. do you know what the tachanka was ? Makhno's thing.
mircea_popescu: that's the clear and incontrovertible proof that mechanized agriculture wasn't available even beyond the pale. let alone inside russia proper.
mircea_popescu: <jurov> and there was no such famine in eastern eutope outside russia inn 20th century << silesia famine in 1850 ? hongerwinter ?
jurov: i said 20th century
mircea_popescu: dutch famine was in 1944
mircea_popescu: whioch reminds me. asciilifeform you know the irish "fear gortha" ?
mircea_popescu: pretty much like the russian.
jurov: afaik ussr had to import grain *consistently*
jurov: from the west, even.
mircea_popescu: uh... no ?
mircea_popescu: nah, the famines were criminal particularly because stalin's soviets were net exporters.
mats_cd03: ;;tslb
gribble: Time since last block: 12 minutes and 58 seconds
jurov: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_trade_of_the_Soviet_Union pediwikia mentions grain imports specifically
assbot: Foreign trade of the Soviet Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1y9zs0H )
mircea_popescu: jurov and if you also count greece as part of europe, they had a famine tambien.
mircea_popescu: jurov you mean in the 80s ?
jurov: it was supposedly during foreign occupation
jurov: the greek one
jurov: yes, ussr imports in the 1980s. there was modern agriculture and irrigation available then, i suppose?
mircea_popescu: by 1980 the globalisation of trade makes such approach useless.
mircea_popescu: they imported grain because it was cheap
mircea_popescu: as a result of the canadian explosion.
jurov: even if that meant debt?
mircea_popescu: iirc their balance of trade was <10% of their gdp
mircea_popescu: so... sure. who cares.
mats_cd03: http://www.zdnet.com/now-we-know-who-developed-state-sponsored-regin-malware-7000036111 << heh.
assbot: UK, US behind Regin malware, attacked European Union networks | ZDNet ... ( http://bit.ly/1y9A7PG )
jurov: my grandpa was technical manager in 1980s and explained the hoops they had to jump to buy any equipment from the west
jurov: it was cuz they bought grain instead?
jurov: well, clearly they had their priorities
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mircea_popescu: jurov czechoslovakia isn't soviet russia tho or what are we talking about here
mircea_popescu: generally, the leadership of "socii", ie "allies" ie vassals is worse than at the center.
jurov: it was same in russia. iirc stan said something about his grandpad making film projectors without german parts
jurov: *grandpa
jurov: they saved on high tech to buy grain, i can esily see it
jurov: and now he's like "so go tell lenin what he did wrong, now you have it easy in hindsight"
mircea_popescu: didn't bagels7 just bitch that her dad didn'g buy her a computer ? im sure he must at some point have bought some grain too.
mircea_popescu: anyway, lenin's nep got cut short pre-war.
jurov: she did not starve into death nor hes exorbitant debts
jurov: *has
mircea_popescu: well inasmuch as something still exists for putin to run over, neither has russia "starved to death" ?
mircea_popescu: you understand some people must die, right ?
jurov: i don't understand why so many
mircea_popescu: ah. well that's always going to be an open debate.
mircea_popescu: generally, because socialist government is by definition inept, i guess.