assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.51251667 = 3.0751 BTC [-] {4}
pankkake: "Scammers used to be gentleman and just disappear from existence" oh really?
ThickAsThieves: and then make new existence
ThickAsThieves: over and over
ThickAsThieves: sometimes more than one at a time
ThickAsThieves: cryptostocks is cranking them out lately
pankkake: scammers are cocky and get mad when you expose them
ThickAsThieves: S.EXISTENCE
pankkake: S.EX
pankkake: S.EXIST
ThickAsThieves: S.EXCORCIST
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 9 @ 0.51200001 = 4.608 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: 'SEX EXISTS' (graffiti on an abandoned warehouse in wash. d.c. area.)
ThickAsThieves: AM1 crashing on the news!
ThickAsThieves: hehe
pankkake: well the thing is… if Havelock falls, the operator is havelock
ThickAsThieves: flipside, one less counterparty to worry about
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.512 = 2.56 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: nah, even i dont buy that
ThickAsThieves: the risk of Havelock affects all on Havelock always
ThickAsThieves: can't remove that really
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 20 @ 0.512 = 10.24 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.51115 = 5.1115 BTC [-] {4}
Namworld: Don't issuers have list of holders?
ThickAsThieves: on Havelock, yes
ThickAsThieves: i can access it live anytime and get autobackups twice each day
Namworld: Sounds good.
ThickAsThieves: not sure what youre getting at though
pankkake: it means havelock was kinda irrelevant as a counterparty
pankkake: we trusted you!
ThickAsThieves: Havelock is far from irrelavant though
ThickAsThieves: even a shareholder list cant prevent many things
ThickAsThieves: but no i agree that it's better to have the middleman
ThickAsThieves: assuming there's trust to be gained
ThickAsThieves: now, i believe Havelock and Panama Fund might be separate things
ThickAsThieves: Havelock, the investment bank
ThickAsThieves: or whichever category they claim
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.511 = 1.022 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 137 @ 0.00299998 = 0.411 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 43 @ 0.00492307 = 0.2117 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 12 @ 0.50701 = 6.0841 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 200 @ 0.00491707 = 0.9834 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.50560167 = 3.0336 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 4 @ 0.0680575 = 0.2722 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 33 @ 0.05672483 = 1.8719 BTC [-] {9}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.50510002 = 1.0102 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.50510001 = 5.051 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: nubbins`: on another note: "Pussy Riot members attacked with whips by Cossack militia in Sochi" << bwahaha
mircea_popescu: mod6 yup :D
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves this "theme of the century" bs is greatly loved by libertards, because it pretty much works like global warming.
mircea_popescu: there's very little data, and the data that is unwarrantly overrepresents what they like (ie, their own eco chambers) and fails to represent or misrepresents what actually happened.
mircea_popescu: o look, the "i didn't know i was on private" bs made it to here.
mircea_popescu: about five years ago an affiliate manager came up with the brilliant idea of doing two email blasts instead of one, because the first "had some mistakes" that "were corrected"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 25 @ 0.00482502 = 0.1206 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: it became fashionable because affiliate marketing is a very fashion driven <del>industry</del>, occupation, and so for about a year no email blast could ever be sent by anyone that was "correct".
ThickAsThieves: i never met an affiliate marketer i liked
ThickAsThieves: both web and irl types
ThickAsThieves: cue mp "That's how I got rich!"
mircea_popescu: nah not rly.
mircea_popescu: i did meet some i liked,
mircea_popescu: but what do you know, they were all women.
mircea_popescu: generally the affiliate marketing guy is a combo of sleazy car salesman and otaku fatso.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] [PAID] 11.00391760 BTC to 18`616 shares, 59110 satoshi per share
mircea_popescu: cads: I think they want to see what a $1000 3d printer can do << by paying 700 for an itam ? wouldn't it be easier to just add 300 and check the printer at home ?
ThickAsThieves: surely not easier
ThickAsThieves: it's the easy that theyre paying for
mircea_popescu: i never paid 700k for a consome just to see waht a 1mn restaurant can do, i'll tell you that :D
ThickAsThieves: lol
ThickAsThieves: very fair comparison
mircea_popescu: totally.
ThickAsThieves: i stand erected
mircea_popescu: haha
cads: I mean, these guys currently... fly a guy overseas to look at a part.
mircea_popescu: cads i get it, i get it, burning through all that vc money is a fucking tough job.
mircea_popescu: hey cads, you had a blog did you ?
cads: nope, I was playing with one for some of my math stuff but I never published anything worth reading
cads: I keep wanting to get back to blogging
mircea_popescu: so then, here's your big thing : make a post introducing social justice as if it were set theory.
ThickAsThieves: WhatsApp had one investor, at $8m in 2011
cads: hehe, I do love moral calculus.
ThickAsThieves: coke and whores for the whole team!
mircea_popescu: i'll argue the shit out of you, if nothing else then so anon retards have a model of how it works.
mircea_popescu: and maybe, who knows, understand actual generosity,
mircea_popescu: as opposed to their contemptible slimy thing.
mircea_popescu: the20year2: In a life or death situation i'm sure they don't care too much << did this guy just argue with a bunch of people about using the rifle as a club ?
ThickAsThieves: uh oh ""In terms of value creation, this is the biggest on record," re: WhatsApp
ThickAsThieves: what about teh buttcoinz?
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves see ? all the forum signs of greatness.
mircea_popescu: it's too easy for us. we are incredibly fucking powerful, just for having been here and seen it first hand.
benkay: ;;market
gribble: Error: "market" is not a valid command.
benkay: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 627.85, Best ask: 628.47, Bid-ask spread: 0.62000, Last trade: 627.85, 24 hour volume: 10920.95006922, 24 hour low: 617.0, 24 hour high: 636.0, 24 hour vwap: 626.88346818
ThickAsThieves: how on gods bloody earth is a chat app worth $19b
ThickAsThieves: especially one i never heard of
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves in exactly the same way it's a good idea for businesses to ask for "affordable housing" instead of tax rebates.
mircea_popescu: you have to have a special worm in your head, like tequilla.
ThickAsThieves: that's 19 Instagrams
ThickAsThieves: well maybe not anymore
moiety: mew all, how goes?
ThickAsThieves: probly lik 87 Instagrams now
mircea_popescu: pew moiety. just fine.
cads: ThickAsThieves: so.. whatapp?
mircea_popescu: which one is instagram ?
mircea_popescu: tumblr is different right ?
ThickAsThieves: the photo filters
moiety: look at my feet through a weird filter = instagram
mircea_popescu: aok
Apocalyptic: ^
mircea_popescu: definitelly worth 19 billion DOLLARS.
cads: mircea_popescu: instragram is photography for hipsters and hiphop kids
mircea_popescu: not likely worth five bitcoin, but 19 bn dollars...well...
ThickAsThieves: they basically put photobooths in an app and called it a day
moiety: tumblr = heres pics of everything in a back-to-front blog setup
cads: tumblr is miniblogging
mircea_popescu: i think that's where ozbot gets all those bad pictures of naked teenagers.
moiety: lol!
ThickAsThieves: .bait
ozbot: http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m21aqoo0k41r3drngo1_500.jpg
mircea_popescu: cads so do we got a deal or are you too loath to commit ?
ThickAsThieves: :)
mircea_popescu: lmao the prostitution rests.
ThickAsThieves: perfect compliment to my erected joke! if only we planned
mircea_popescu: pankkake you shall have a more detailed answer in a second.
mircea_popescu: o nm you already had it
cads: mircea_popescu: I'm not sure where I'd start to be honest
moiety: lolol talking of prostitution
mircea_popescu: you too ?
mircea_popescu: dude what's with you people, seriously. you believe in this, right ?
mircea_popescu: it's no shame, people believe all sorts of weird shit.
cads: I do want to do a mathematical treatise of some austrian school economics
mircea_popescu: but how can you go through your day not understanding what you believe in ?
mircea_popescu: i mean even the flat earth folks can EXPLAIN it to you if you ask.
ThickAsThieves: the earth is flat, it just appears spherical
moiety: lol this girl tries upmarket selling herself on a forum basically. you should see who replied http://www.hellou.com/2014/02/apparently-young-woman-posted-following-forum-title-marry-rich-guy-2049/
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves do you know who was the biggest believer ?
ThickAsThieves: napolean?
ThickAsThieves: i dunno
mircea_popescu: o no. almost contemporary.
mircea_popescu: the kruger guy for whom the krugerrand is named.
mircea_popescu: staunch.
wao-ender: very loyal and commited
wao-ender: instersting
benkay: o/ moiety
mircea_popescu: i tend to ask people with gold coin collections (which obviously WILL include some) "but you don't think the earth is flat, too, do youi ?"
mircea_popescu: absolutely nobody to date knew the reference.
wao-ender: oh here is reference http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/staunch
moiety: \o aye up benkay :) how's you?
mircea_popescu: wao-ender no i mean about paul kruger
cads: mircea_popescu: I dunno, maybe I could do a situation with agents that act under various ignorance or misinformation constraints.
cads: I'm trying to think of the simplest measure of the fairness of a situation.
mircea_popescu: cads don't be bullied into it, but just consider that a) you really can't go through life like this and b) you definitely can't write the austrian thing for this reason.
mircea_popescu: sooner or later it'll have to be well resolved.
wao-ender: oh, we believes in that war with England, right?
ThickAsThieves: i think i just found a havelock bug, i sent a deposit to two different security accounts using 1 tx, it only deposited one amount
wao-ender: that his army can resist?
mircea_popescu: wao-ender they did it just fine for a while. but yes the boors.
ThickAsThieves: no way to exploit such thing, but annoying...
wao-ender: interesting life story
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves reverse-malleability.
wao-ender: well, but kinda it's true
mircea_popescu: moiety oyu know that "please allow me to analyse your situation" post is about as old as the internet ?
wao-ender: all we have, is the Hope.
wao-ender: Hope for next day.
mircea_popescu: i distinctly remember readinf the exchange in the mid 90s, thinking "look how retarded the mericans actually are, they believe this crap is respondent"
moiety: of course not! I've been banished from proper internetting for years! I loved his response though, fresh to me.
moiety: aw i think i find something good and it just turns out ive beenunder my rock for a while again lol
mircea_popescu: if i recall the original actually had good new england grammar
cads: hmm, so the service boasts half a billion users
mircea_popescu: cads AND VIEWS! pls do not forget the views.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 20 @ 0.50277 = 10.0554 BTC [-] {7}
cads: yes, the views, the views, gotta count the views...
cads: .... views....
cads twitches
mircea_popescu: lol
moiety: i also learned today that ABBA admitted they wore the outfits they did for tax deductions
mircea_popescu: ... abba ?!
moiety: yeah lol
mircea_popescu: just how young are you darlin' ?
moiety: 29 years, a lot younger worldly. fair?
mircea_popescu: hehe i'm just pestering you.
mircea_popescu: you see, bois are fully allowed to love mac clintock, but god forbid a woman mentions abba like she heard of it.
mircea_popescu: gotta keep the double standards.
moiety: ah i forget those, go wandering into all kinds of sentences unwittingly
mircea_popescu: diametric the other interepretation is, that as long as you price your goods in dollars you're fine, and as long as you accept someone';s offer of doobaloos for your items you're also fine,
mircea_popescu: but you're not allowed to open a shop on 5th avenue which lists all prices in bitcoin and doesn't take usd,
mircea_popescu: nor are you allowed to pull the "this is just as good as usd" liberty dollar scam.
mircea_popescu: the way to skirt this, for fun and profit, is obviously to open the 5th avenue shop with prices prominently displayed in bitcoin and a tiny print usd value underneath, like "We also take this shit if you absolutely must"
mircea_popescu: which will likely get you sued and congress pass a law saying dollars have to be just as big as anything else on the tag!!1
cads: Hey guys, are you familiar with the multi-armed bandit problem?
moiety: lolol
mircea_popescu: cads yes
moiety: i thought most bandits had multiple arms
ThickAsThieves: Dancing Queen was the first cover song in my first punk band
moiety: please say its online somewhere ThickAsThieves !
ThickAsThieves: nope
ThickAsThieves: sorry
moiety: aww
mircea_popescu: moiety it's a formulation of the explore/exploit dilemma
cads: moiety: A one armed bandit is a slot machine, while the multi-armed bandit problem considers the best play in a situation with multiple slot machines with uncertain odds.
mircea_popescu: like suppose you're naked outdoors circa 4500 bc, and very hungry.
mircea_popescu: you find a bush with berries.
mircea_popescu: how long do you spend grazing and when do you leave looking for more bushes ?
moiety: when you have collected them all from the first
mircea_popescu: yes well, it gets more complicated than that.
moiety: ik sorry i couldnt resist
mircea_popescu: god forbid someone marries you.
moiety: i think we can all safely assume thats not going to happen
mircea_popescu: attn all present jpm bankers. the girl won't leave till she's bled you dry!
moiety: LOL
mircea_popescu: hehe
moiety: but..she bakes!
mircea_popescu: do you pole dance ?
moiety: i feel my art is restricted with equipment
moiety: no
mircea_popescu: supposedly it's great exercise.
moiety: the actual pole spins itself doesn't it, its not as difficult as it looks
mircea_popescu: it can be about as difficult or easy as you want to make it for yourself.
benkay: i think not. strippers can't handle rotational inertia.
mircea_popescu: benkay they actually have both versions.
benkay: o of course
benkay: but you know
benkay: somewhere there's a cutoff.
benkay: 5%
benkay: ?
benkay: 25?
benkay: 2%?*
mircea_popescu: the problem with fixed poles is that girls want to lube it up
benkay: matter of taste.
mircea_popescu: which then gets kind-of disgusting
benkay: which is why they wipe it down with solvent between performances, non?
mircea_popescu: someplaces.
mircea_popescu: the problem with that is the solvent isn't so kind on the sensitive skin of the thigs
benkay: so let it evaporate
benkay: disease transmission's it's own peculiar set of tastes too.
moiety: looking at wiki, i think it just depends on the venue
mircea_popescu: you generally need a bill of health to work anywhere.
moiety: chinese pole dancers use two
mircea_popescu: re winkdex : myeah, we have a serious problem with indexes.
mircea_popescu: lol @ reddit link
mircea_popescu: "ono, someone said mean things to me ON THE INTERWEBS! PLS CARE"
mircea_popescu: and the shit got like 200 votes and comments and whatnot. which clearly shows the importance of social media voting.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 46 @ 0.49771739 = 22.895 BTC [-] {7}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.51 = 1.02 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re: multi-armed bandit: http://lalandlab.st-andrews.ac.uk/tournaments/tournament1/sociallearning.html
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is old news; 2nd tournament is mostly done now, too
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 2 @ 0.07495 = 0.1499 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: basically the appeal of civ was exactly this
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: contest inspired by Axelrod's prisoner's dilemma tournament
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know this inspires me ? one could formalise the problem with strings.
asciilifeform: they sorta did.
moiety: thats just along the road from me!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hear me out :
mircea_popescu: you define actual words in the dictionary as "good stuff", and each player gets a selection of poems to complete. words themselves are worth points, filled lines are worth more points, filled poems even more.
mircea_popescu: then you give everyone strings, and they can read one char at a time
mircea_popescu: for a cost. or skip the string, for a larger cost.
BingoBoingo: I just caution against the spring anchored portable poles unless you like driving drunk girls to the ER at odd hours of the morning because they flew into a wall.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo nttawwt.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform obviously player can only eat a word if the whole word has been read.
asciilifeform: this sound like fun, but the contest was a robot-writing one
asciilifeform: rather than between players directly
asciilifeform: the final reports are worth reading
mircea_popescu: yes yes
mircea_popescu: you have to write the scripts for this.
mircea_popescu: i was just describing what your bot is supposed to do.
mircea_popescu: well not your your. one's.
asciilifeform: what's the goal? to reproduce the poem before the other players?
mircea_popescu: get most moneyz
mircea_popescu: the key here, of course, being that the strings are not all created equal
asciilifeform: 'read one character at a time' << from another player's slate?
mircea_popescu: each string has its own per-character entropy, from epsilon to 8-epsilon
mircea_popescu: no, the string is in the middle.
mircea_popescu: "all players get copies of the same strings" say.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: might want to describe this for the simple (i.e. mathematically)
mircea_popescu: that'll be hard ;/
mircea_popescu: ok but let me try.
mircea_popescu: the game board consists of an endless set of strings, which all start as natural language constructs and are "decayed" by bit flipping by an actual rng.
mircea_popescu: once the decay is complete the game board is ready.
mircea_popescu: any number of players can play.
mircea_popescu: each player gets the same copy of the same list of strings. at any point each player has the choice of either reading one more character from their current string or advance ot the next string.
mircea_popescu: each player has a pre-given "Table" consisting of a number of natural language poems. these are actual literature.
mircea_popescu: whenever a player has read a natural language word (ie, from the dictionary) out of the string (exact match, no mixing of letters or anything scrabble-ish) he now has that word.
mircea_popescu: the word on itself is worth something. if the word is actually part of one of the player's poems on their table, it's worth more.
mircea_popescu: if the player completes a line or a poem, more bonuses.
asciilifeform: sounds like a variation on 'Erudit'
mircea_popescu: he wins with the highest score once all players have read all strings.
mircea_popescu: does it ?
mircea_popescu: cause that's what i was wanting, to see if this is original or i'm just ineptly stumbling on well known (to everyone else) history.
asciilifeform: and it's not clear, from this description, that the ideal strategy is any kind of problem
asciilifeform: s/erudit/scrabble
mircea_popescu: why is that ?
asciilifeform: well, consider a bot. he can contain whatever, so he has an embedded dictionary (for the natural language of the poems)
asciilifeform: or, failing that, simply the set of necessary words (all words from his poem slate)
mircea_popescu: no problem. so ?
mircea_popescu: it is a given the bot would contain the dictionaries, sure.
asciilifeform: if the current buffer at any time does not match the beginning of any useful word, switch.
mircea_popescu: uh.
mircea_popescu: so you switch on character 1 of all strings ?
asciilifeform: unless i'm missing something
asciilifeform: not all, but once 'x' becomes 'xy' and there is no 'xylophone' in the table...
mircea_popescu: seems to me a better strategy may be to stick with a not-so-entropic string
mircea_popescu: than to switch and perhaps get a very entropic string.
asciilifeform: illustrate?
mircea_popescu: even if the xy atm has no xylophone.
mircea_popescu: ok. string one : xygfredfoxjumpedoverstan
mircea_popescu: string two acadafabadabababbadaafa
asciilifeform: from whence do the strings come?
mircea_popescu: they all start as natural language constructs
mircea_popescu: and are fuzzed to different (and unknown to players) degrees
mircea_popescu: some are very badly fuzzed. some very slightly. some in between
asciilifeform: random selections from dictionary, then permuted a character at a time before start?
asciilifeform: and with varying degrees of noise?
mircea_popescu: random selections from the poems given out,
mircea_popescu: and then noised.
mircea_popescu: basically the player becomes an exercise to measure the fuzzer parameters
asciilifeform: but noised to differing degrees, deliberately?
mircea_popescu: in a half-blind fashion.
mircea_popescu: yeah.
asciilifeform: then strategy is clear, measure the noise.
mircea_popescu: that in principle is clear, but it helps as much as "capture enemy pieces" helps in chess
mircea_popescu: i suspect.
asciilifeform: certainly.
mircea_popescu: because measuring the noise has a cost in itself.
mircea_popescu: moreover, take our original two strings.
mircea_popescu: when do you measure the noise ?
mircea_popescu: xy is noisier than ac
mircea_popescu: sampling problems.
mircea_popescu: xyg way noisier than aca
asciilifeform: noise being 'frequency of substrings that contain no valid words,' perhaps.
mircea_popescu: 2nd still less noisy
benkay: hey mircea_popescu where's the essay in which you explain why proles can't afford privacy?
asciilifeform: fuck, i've played this game!
asciilifeform: with genetic sequences.
asciilifeform: long story.
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2013/anonimity-not-for-the-poor/
ozbot: Anonimity : not for the poor. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i was going to say, basically this game is the game of fucking life.
mircea_popescu: every programmer ever has basically played this with compilers and errors and blabla.
benkay: thankee sir
mircea_popescu: every engineer idem.
asciilifeform: i meant, literally this game.
asciilifeform: with homology modelling.
mircea_popescu: o wow srsly ?
mircea_popescu: is it named anything ?
asciilifeform: not afaik
mircea_popescu: hey.
asciilifeform: but an actual expert might know. (i was thrown into that line of work by accident.)
mircea_popescu: i guess ima clean it up and put it on the t.
asciilifeform: i also have a hunch that it is a variant of Knapsack Problem
mircea_popescu: it certainly is.
mircea_popescu: im just not sure it's reducible to i.
mircea_popescu: it*
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 21 @ 0.00494 = 0.1037 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: incidentally
asciilifeform: consider this knapsack packer:
asciilifeform: you want, from a set n1, n2, n3, ... nk, a subset such that sum(...) = S
mircea_popescu: blackjack ?
asciilifeform: that was just a simplified restatement of problem;
asciilifeform: now consider a source of light, of known polarization, shining into a tube
asciilifeform: on the other end of tube, a filter which passes only light polarized P degrees.
asciilifeform: in the pipe, slides containing each a matrix of regions of optically rotating substance (chiral whatever)
asciilifeform: each region rotates the light by d1, d2, ... dk degrees.
mircea_popescu: "make porn appear on the screen"
asciilifeform: endgame is an exercise for the alert reader.
asciilifeform: (incl. how to get the answer out.)
asciilifeform: (and how to attach 'weights' to n1, ... nk)
mircea_popescu: your reader needs to be mighty alert.
asciilifeform: result: machine solving knapsack problem in polynomial time.
asciilifeform: (source: my turdbook, circa '08)
mircea_popescu: i bet you the most that comes out of this is some new quantum effect.
asciilifeform: this is a strictly 1900s contraption.
asciilifeform: http://chemed.chem.purdue.edu/genchem/topicreview/bp/1organic/graphics/24_19.gif
asciilifeform: (basic principle due to herr pasteur)
benkay: see asciilifeform even MP thinks your readers gotta be super alert.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's sans the chiral bits :)
mircea_popescu: you will end up with separation issues at the region boundries i bet.
asciilifeform: damnit, you want that i draw the whole picture, and then some bozo maps knapsack to the discrete logarithm problem
asciilifeform: and then we can go cry
mircea_popescu: derp, they never do.
mircea_popescu: i tell you, the most happening is "wow, look, likght does THAT too ?!"
asciilifeform waves to dr. evil reading this
mircea_popescu: recall the early highschool physics "and now the light makes spots, and now the light makes lines"
asciilifeform: it's a brute-forcer for n-SAT, too
asciilifeform: because you can perform modular arithmetic using rotation
asciilifeform: idea is, some scattered light will take the correct path through the rotators
asciilifeform: if you can determine the path, you have answer.
mircea_popescu: but you can't determine the path for very good reasons
mircea_popescu: known since about the 1900s
asciilifeform: not directly.
mircea_popescu: you won't be able to establish the path of light after you've measured its position
mircea_popescu: (tyhrough the rotation)
asciilifeform: no need.
asciilifeform: pull the rotator slides one by one
asciilifeform: and measure the error of the 'answer'
mircea_popescu: i tell you, this is a perpetuum lightmobile.
mircea_popescu: i'm a very theoretical physicist. i have no fucking idea of the formulas involved in physics, but i can tell you when you're wasting your time.
asciilifeform: i don't insist that this is a useful mechanism, that necessarily does 'the job'. only that 1) i never found any trace that it was proposed before 2) i cannot see a 'textbook' reason why it ought not to work
lnovy: (tldr, but...) conservation of energy?
asciilifeform: lnovy: please elaborate?
lnovy: sorry, off-topic problem, as i've said, tldr
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i for one certainly would like to see it built.
mircea_popescu: lnovy nah, that was just a metaphor.
lnovy: mircea_popescu: :)
asciilifeform: incidentally, 'there are no new ideas', etc. and this is but a minor generalization of shamir's TWINKLE/TWIRL
asciilifeform: which i realized the next day.
mircea_popescu: not so minor.
mircea_popescu: it's actually pretty good sarcasm, re twinkle.
asciilifeform: i only brought this up because armed bandits and knapsacks.
asciilifeform: there's a whole field of weird analogue computers using light, that mostly died out some time last century
asciilifeform: it could use a little help from modern electronics, and come back with a vengeance
asciilifeform: (from the 'weird soviet crap' dept. of my brain)
Duffer1: http://i.imgur.com/JZ85Pgu.gif
asciilifeform: people did amazing things with optics, without any access to coherent light, much less computer
greenspan_fan: for instance, fresnel lenses-- a thin sheet that magnifies surprisingly efficiently
moiety: lol duffer thats brilliant
Duffer1: ^.^
moiety: might know this one: http://i.imgur.com/txDa8p9.png
asciilifeform: pop quiz for whoever: how did the discoverer of the 'LED' die?
greenspan_fan: heart disease? cancer? automobile accident?
asciilifeform: no/no/no
moiety: i thought he was still alive
asciilifeform: and no
moiety: wiki lies to meeeeeeeee
asciilifeform: starvation.
moiety: starvation?
greenspan_fan: vis a vis, leningrad. Wikipedia lists three discoverers though
Duffer1: ww2
moiety: im just catching up i see there are three guys
chetty: A Fatwa has been issued against living on Mars by clerics who say that trying to set up home there would be un-Islamic.
moiety: wah i didnt realise it was as early as 1927 he started documenting
benkay: chetty: did you ever read the Red/Green/Blue Mars books?
chetty: nope never heard of those
Duffer1: i've read them, proud to say i didn't skip any pages
benkay: Kim Stanley Robinson. he gets a wee-bit preachy and long in the mouth (like Rand) but has a very vivid story about the different groups who emigrated and why and what they all did with themselves.
chetty: haha just reading about them, seems very timely stuff
Duffer1: the over all story is well worth the overlong theories of possible future technical/civil/economic possibilities
Duffer1: i wonder what KSR would extrapolate from blockchain tech
mircea_popescu: who ?
Duffer1: kim stanley robinson
benkay: it was interesting to see the Accelerando guy take his stance on bitcoin being evil
Duffer1: charles stross
benkay: yeah, him.
benkay: when A. is basically all about what the world looks like after the hidebound states fall over
benkay: although in his vision it was the reputation system that cracked 'em open, not the breaking of the fiat bank.
benkay: makes sense, right? nerds want to have other nerds idolized by nerd-tokens.
Duffer1: which is ironic since his latest book (which was frankly aweful) featured the cryptocurrency idea prominently
mircea_popescu: benkay tell you a secret : if all the people who had been up to this point claimed to be employed at or interested in bitcoin's business had recognised it and moved over,
benkay: not this power-concentrating pure money technology bullshit
mircea_popescu: i'd have been well fucking worried it's all a plant.
asciilifeform: stross, if i'm not mistaken, is the 'other kind' of writer
mircea_popescu: as it is, it's all fine.
asciilifeform: the kind with 'kolhozes on mars'
benkay: ;;ud kolhozes
gribble: Google found nothing.
mircea_popescu: OF COURSE they would fight it tooth and nail. imagine someone invents a solution to all X problems tomorrow.
mircea_popescu: who do you think will fight it in the US ? those currently involved in X right ?
asciilifeform: ;;ud kolkhoz
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=kolkhoz | trending. hipster · neknominate · lumpatious · tittybong · poopsterbate · dtf · spectaphile · bae · yolo · pussy. categories. gaming · sports · food · sex · tv · film ...
ozbot: Urban Dictionary: kolkhoz
benkay: this is no secret to me, mircea_popescu
asciilifeform: bah.
mircea_popescu: i know :)
Duffer1: ;; tittybong
gribble: Error: "tittybong" is not a valid command.
Duffer1: ;;ud tittybong
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tittybong | tittybong. a place in Australia but also the act of the female appendage leaping from it's cotton, underwired prison. Can be used as an expression of pleasure...or  ...
ozbot: Urban Dictionary: tittybong
benkay: it's great right?
benkay: bitcoin stable for spring 2014 at 650
benkay: everyone thinks its crazy and or stupid
benkay: the ones who argue a) satoshi hoard and b) implementation-as-specification are right
benkay: but sadly also wrong
benkay: i have no idea how a) will resolve, but b) cannot stand.
mircea_popescu: http://www.btcbeauties.com/donate < check out this shit.
ozbot: Bitcoin Beauties
mircea_popescu: "our project". wtf ?
ThickAsThieves: address starts with a 3?
mircea_popescu: ikr ?
mircea_popescu: fucking weirdest thing i've seen so far today.
benkay: they're excited about growth
benkay: my kinda babes.
pankkake: P2SH address
mircea_popescu: and i mean who wouldn't be.
asciilifeform: the '3' was a monkeywrench thrown by their monkey
asciilifeform: who resented being put to such a task.
benkay: "we appreciate your your support and stoke"
ThickAsThieves: lol
ThickAsThieves: there's something missing too
ThickAsThieves: beauty
mircea_popescu: well they're ok girls, whadda ya want.
benkay: great tits, too.
mircea_popescu: supposing of course the tiny shitty pictures aren't lifted.
benkay: http://www.btcbeauties.com/assets/anto.jpg
ThickAsThieves: i can see a shape of a nipple!
ThickAsThieves donates it all.
benkay: blew your wad, eh?
pankkake: girl pics for btc is something reddit is actually useful at
moiety: i go for hot chocolate and miss tits and bongs? ffs ping me next time
mircea_popescu: incidentally re p2sh :
asciilifeform: moiety: you also missed n-sat solver.
mircea_popescu: gavin put in code that made everyone downloading the latest versiion vote "yes" cause he wanted to see a yesz.
mircea_popescu: this got him exactly squat, showing about how important control of the new releases was
mircea_popescu: back in 2012.
benkay: whaaaaat
asciilifeform: p2sh ?
pankkake: well, pools don't really apt-get install bitcoin
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform some braindamaged extension of innate scripting capabilities
mircea_popescu: which was put together suspiciously quickly.
pankkake: but it allows to decentralize everything!
asciilifeform: bip-16 ?
pankkake: yes
mircea_popescu: Luke-Jr was all against it iirc.
mircea_popescu: yeah
pankkake: see, you shouldn't hate Luke-Jr
ThickAsThieves: like against it with his crotch?
mircea_popescu: http://blockchain.info/p2sh << lol. beleeted
mircea_popescu: then there was bip-17, an entire drama.
asciilifeform: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0016.mediawiki
benkay: saw that
asciilifeform: ?
benkay: man if you delete shit
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 2 @ 0.075 = 0.15 BTC [+]
benkay: relevant to past business/coding exploits
benkay: u ams scam.
moiety: went looking for that asciilifeform lol
benkay: what was this forced voting thong?
mircea_popescu: it is pretty fucking stupid.
ThickAsThieves: are bitcoin software updates even going to be possible for much longer?
mircea_popescu: in his defense they "updated" the site like 5x in the interval, because you defo need moar logos and shit
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves this is a sore spot power rangers would rather not go into.
asciilifeform: trying to figure out the point
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform look into bip-12 too while you're at it.
moiety: i still cant figure out the btcbeauties project apart from trying to hide the fat one
ThickAsThieves: she's just big-boned!
moiety: it's a trap!
pankkake: I like big boneds
mircea_popescu: me either, but i told em to drop by here.
mircea_popescu: maybe they do and then can explain.
moiety: i love how they went on location as probably too embarrassed to strip pff anywhere else
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 6 @ 0.05329996 = 0.3198 BTC [-] {2}
moiety: lol i would love it if they did
moiety: drop by i mean
mircea_popescu: you ever been nude in public ?
benkay: don't they know the assettes only get off on public nudity?
moiety: let's define public. do you mean in view or just in a public place?
mircea_popescu: either way.
moiety: yes but not in view
mircea_popescu: just establishing your credentials to bitch at them >D
asciilifeform: cursory reading of bip-12 suggests that it gives you a coin that sits on a magic addr, from whence it can, say, move to A1, A2, or A3 but nowhere else
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ono. it pulls up something from the stack.
asciilifeform: sure
asciilifeform: but i'm trying to enumerate the possible cases
mircea_popescu: it could do pretty much anything, such as never stop.
mircea_popescu: (turing complete)
asciilifeform: given that most of the opcodes in the classical client are commented out
asciilifeform: (or were, last i checked)
asciilifeform: as far as i can tell, pissing on this particular electric fence is strictly voluntary.
mircea_popescu: yup
asciilifeform: bip-12 appears to specify a max recursion depth of 2
mircea_popescu: the argument isn't "o wow look btc is broken", the argument merely is "o hey, remember when gavin was a total asshat in 2012 ?"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform admitting it is actually enforced.
asciilifeform: the devs stay on their ceremonial throne until the first bugocalypse.
asciilifeform: after that, they go somewhere else...
asciilifeform: will be interesting to see what becomes of the empty throne.
moiety: how many bips are there?
asciilifeform: moiety: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips
moiety: thank you asciilifeform
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 10 @ 0.16230094 = 1.623 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: wait a sec
moiety: jesus, lots
asciilifeform: bip-61
asciilifeform: 'standard' and link -> 404 ?!
asciilifeform: nm
moiety: sorry you guys hearts must sink when i come in
jayk: i really hate commercials that have a doorbell
jayk: especially ones that sound exactly like mine
benkay: my heart sinks when truffles comes in.
moiety: lol i had a parrot that meowed and did the phone
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.50004999 = 1.0001 BTC [-] {2}
bloctoc: I apologize if it's already been discussed, but does anyone seen significance in mtgox stopping the drop today?
benkay: "stopping the drop"?
benkay: ;;ticker --market mtgox
gribble: MtGox BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 262.345, Best ask: 264.695, Bid-ask spread: 2.35000, Last trade: 262.345, 24 hour volume: 33931.23630368, 24 hour low: 257.10001, 24 hour high: 298.0, 24 hour vwap: 265.3911
Duffer1: did they suspend trading or did the market stop selling?
jcpham: Winkdex!
bloctoc: if you look at 24 hour chart, there seems to be a willingness to buy at 261
bloctoc: wondering if that's where mtgox needs the price to be to recapitalize.
moiety: this is how gox is protecting itself from closure. If they don't let anyone withdraw ever again, they can't ever really close
moiety: (kidding)
benkay: not that good of a joke
benkay: too close to home
benkay: at least in their minds...
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 39 @ 0.00494 = 0.1927 BTC [+]
mike_c: 1) stop withdrawals. 2) use your 'unlimited account' to buy btc at 260. 3) use whatever you have left in the sofa cushions to process some withdrawals and restore some confidence 4) sell some of your cheap coins and use funds to process more withdrawals. 5) goto step 4.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24814 @ 0.00086611 = 21.4917 BTC [+] {2}
Jere_Jones: http://i.imgur.com/N8kbDck.jpg
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37950 @ 0.00086614 = 32.87 BTC [+] {2}
benkay: amen.
moiety: i nabbed that
mircea_popescu: nice album art.
mircea_popescu: "A number of government lawyers involved in lawsuits over the NSA phone-records program believe federal-court rules on preserving evidence related to lawsuits require the agency to stop routinely destroying older phone records"
mircea_popescu: aka the "We must spy because you're sueing us about our spying" defense.
mike_c: http://www.btcalpha.com/blog/2014/panacea-opens-the-books/
ozbot: Panacea Opens The Books - Btc Alpha
mircea_popescu: o hey.
benkay: well done mike_c
mircea_popescu: is this an exclusive ?
mike_c: you didn't even read it yet benkay!
mike_c: mircea_popescu: yup
mircea_popescu: so say so in the piece noob :D
mike_c: srsly.
mike_c: pr fail
mircea_popescu: next time.
mircea_popescu: i hereby summarize assets for all future times :
benkay: talking about the scoop, mike_c :0
mike_c: oh :)
mircea_popescu: "hey guise! check out this neat thing i did" "x" "o fuck me".
mircea_popescu: through its first five months of operations
mircea_popescu: s ?
mike_c: August through january. i think that's 5
mircea_popescu: but first five months of operation neh ?
mike_c: fuck
mike_c: that's 6
pankkake: great article
mircea_popescu: nice data.
moiety: that's very nice mike_c :)
mike_c: thanks. credit to kakobrekla for sending that along. very cool of him.
kakobrekla: o very cool
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 108 @ 0.003 = 0.324 BTC [+]
Apocalyptic: nice article mike_c
moiety: there he is lol hi kakobrekla
kakobrekla: yes, here. hi!
mike_c: Apocalyptic: thanks. also, i believe awhile ago you mentioned you were interested in the income investments section, so check out http://www.btcalpha.com/income/. it's version 1, but still some useful info i think.
Apocalyptic: just reading it now :)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 54 @ 0.00482148 = 0.2604 BTC [-] {7}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 9 @ 0.48103001 = 4.3293 BTC [-] {2}
benkay: i think the assettes crashed your server, mike_c.
benkay: leastaways /income/ isn't serving anything for me.
benkay goes back to the ragel documentation
mike_c: browser?
mike_c: sry chan, i'll pm.
benkay: yeah it may be a browser thing
benkay: no man fuckit! debug in -assets! this is how we roll.
mike_c: ok! so what browser/os we working with here?
benkay: os x, firefox.
mike_c: oh, i don't support mac
mike_c: (kidding)
benkay: highchart js is the long-loading one.
benkay: and nevermind.
mike_c: loading?
benkay: nondeterministicwebbug.
mike_c: cool
benkay: mhm
benkay: "did you clear your cache?"
benkay: "did you restart your browser"
benkay: "did you restart your computer"
mike_c: you don't have to clear cache. i version my static files like a good webdev.
benkay: "are you running ie8?"
moiety: i was just reading the income page - nice page mike_c
benkay: lost an ie8 argument recently
greenspan_fan: what's an ie8 argument?
mike_c: thanks moiety. there is more to come on that page.
mike_c: should we support it.
moiety: bookmarked you!
benkay: that'd make you a better dev than most webbers.
mike_c: awesome
benkay: mike_c: you're still serving directly from highcharts.
mike_c: yes, that one i didn't want to bother serving locally. but i will probably change that b/c their server is down more than mine.
benkay: and i think it's a blocking call.
mike_c: ok, maybe i'll change it now.
kakobrekla: well since you are already taking complaints, in opera next witch already uses webkit, some charts get broked
kakobrekla: but i understand if you will not fix it
mircea_popescu: drama chick after performance : "how come people on stage never throw tomatoes @ the audience"
kakobrekla: i prolly wouldnt
mike_c: i already installed opera just for you kako. opera next is probably beyond your service contract.
Apocalyptic: who does use opera these days anyway
benkay: mike_c: did you see mircea_popescu's point a few days ago about the flipside of "you can raise it but you can't spend it"?
kakobrekla: LMAFO
kakobrekla: hats off mike_c
Apocalyptic: *except in somalia
mike_c: benkay: recently? don't think so. i've been around for a couple discussions on the topic.
Bugpowder: Semi-rational mutagenesis
benkay: mike_c: the basic gist is that you can't spend it when btc price is going up 'cause derp, but then when you don't spend it in time you get a reaming from investors.
benkay: for failing to capitalize on high price.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 239 @ 0.00299999 = 0.717 BTC [-] {2}
mike_c: hah, yeah, i read that. but that is a minor consideration against the order of magnitude changes when it goes up.
Bugpowder: mircea_popescu: I played that game quite a bit in grad school.
Bugpowder: For example http://nar.oxfordjournals.org/content/28/16/e78
mircea_popescu: Bugpowder o hey so it has a name and everything ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform check it out
Bugpowder: Well, it's not exactly the same game but similar enough
Bugpowder: You use degenerate PCR primers to evolve and screen fluorescent protein genes
mircea_popescu: shorter alphabet basicall ?
Bugpowder: trying to find an new one that matches
Bugpowder: well... 4 characters
mircea_popescu: shorter alphabet / longer verses.
Bugpowder: but you mutate base on the codons
Bugpowder: so 3^3 'letters'
mircea_popescu: interesting
Bugpowder: since you need 3 to actually code an amino acid.
mircea_popescu: but isn't it 3^4 then ?
Bugpowder: uhhh
Bugpowder: 4^3
Bugpowder: yeah
mircea_popescu: right
Bugpowder: though some represent the same letter
Bugpowder: http://dps.plants.ox.ac.uk/langdalelab/protocols/PCR/degenerate_primer.pdf
Bugpowder: So you can specify ATGC
mircea_popescu: well cool!
Bugpowder: OR you can specify a blend of two, three or all four randomly assorted at that position
Bugpowder: Say you want to evolve a fluorescent protein to glow a different color
Bugpowder: you suspect that a few amino acids near the core chromophore will influence the color
Bugpowder: So you do a PCR reaction (make billions of copies of the DNA), but use primers that have these selective random patches at the points in the sequence you want to sample the variation space in
moiety: thats ace
moiety: why are oxford uni using comic sans
Bugpowder: your new gene sequence now has randomizations at those spots, as specified by your primer blend
mircea_popescu: right.
Bugpowder: then you mix the genes into a bunch of bacteria, and dilute the solution really far down, then spread it over many agar plates
Bugpowder: each bacteria that got one of the mutant genes in it will grow an independent colony
Bugpowder: hundreds or thousands on a plate
Bugpowder: and you can put them under a fluorescent light to see if you A) fucked the protein up or B) changed its color slightly. Take your best hits, sequence the gene to see what you've got, then repeat the process.
Bugpowder: This is how one gene, GFP, the green fluorescent protein
Bugpowder: Turned into many colors.
Bugpowder: Here is a painting of various color fluoresncet bacteria on a plate... created by this game...
Bugpowder: http://tsienlab.ucsd.edu/HTML/Images/IMAGE%20-%20PLATE%20-%20Beach.jpg
Bugpowder: Most mutations kill the fluorescence (they don't match literate word, as a metaphor)
Bugpowder: but a few work... Just need to find them.. by flipping 2-3 letters at a time
Bugpowder: Alternatively you can use error-prone PCR, which makes random mutations everywhere
Bugpowder: instead of targeted
mircea_popescu: ok that's pretty cool
Bugpowder: OR you can insert the gene into the hyper somatic recombination region of B cells (this is how antibody diversity is generated in your own immune system), and then let the B cells mutate the protein for you
mircea_popescu: Bugpowder did you obtain the painting by smear selected bacteria or by smearing uniform bacteria with particular mutagen ?
Bugpowder: Then you just sort millions of cells over and over again till you enrich the color you want.
Bugpowder: mircea_popescu: That was made by the former
mircea_popescu: aha
Bugpowder: different colors has already been evolved
mircea_popescu: i can't help but think you're pretty close to biofilm 3d printing.
Bugpowder: Then a friend made a pallete of different color bacteria and painted the plate with a dilute solution of them. Waited 48 hours and that was the impressive result
Bugpowder: (its under UV illumination)
mircea_popescu: which... you know, if galateea ever happens...
moiety: Bugpowder, may i please use this picture?
Bugpowder: It's on wikipedia
Bugpowder: I think.
moiety: fab
Bugpowder: I think I put it there many years ago
Bugpowder: Yup
Bugpowder: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_fluorescent_protein
ozbot: Green fluorescent protein - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
moiety: it is really cool, i started an album after the illustrating science challenge last year
Bugpowder: BTW this work won the 2008 Nobel prize.
Bugpowder: in Chemistry
mircea_popescu: pretty cool.
moiety: i need glofish in my life
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.48103666 = 1.4431 BTC [+] {3}
moiety: A Japanese-American Team created green-fluorescent cats as proof of concept to use them potentially as model organisms for diseases, particularly HIV.[42] I volunteer to look after them
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for your warez pleasure: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/lightproc.djvu
mircea_popescu: uh.
mircea_popescu: djvu ?
Bugpowder: downstream application... Total brain network activity imaging.
Bugpowder: http://www.nature.com/news/flashing-fish-brains-filmed-in-action-1.12621
ozbot: Flashing fish brains filmed in action : Nature News & Comment
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'optical methods of signal processing.' v. d. svet. 1971
Bugpowder: Works best in fish tho
Bugpowder: transparent
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: example, p. 69, optical 'correlator'
Bugpowder: Also
Bugpowder: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EYbjW3wgwY
ozbot: Watching a mouse's brain think about running with GCaMP3 - YouTube
asciilifeform: pure gold
mircea_popescu: ah
Bugpowder: Need sleep. Laterzzz
moiety: thats incredible
moiety: cya Bugpowder thanks for le links!
mircea_popescu: for a glimpse at my forum digests :
Bugpowder: I built the gene in the mouse video... the fish video is 2 more series of evolution better...
mircea_popescu: crypto-trade (neotrix's deal that used to be an altcoin marketplace, and
mircea_popescu: which i beat the shit out of when they decided to start letting people
mircea_popescu: list securities, and which has been fucking up massively since, and which
mircea_popescu: i've been back to say hey next time listen to me before you get into this
mircea_popescu: sorta mess) is jumping on board the "o no malleability is preventing us
mircea_popescu: from paying out" wagon
mircea_popescu: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=149458.700
greenspan_fan: anyone seriously concerned about a price collapse if it turns out most exchanges were as incompetent as mt gox?
mircea_popescu: not really.
Chris_Sabian: dont think that is possible
mircea_popescu: people thought silk road is fundamental to bitcoin value. it closed, no ill effects recorded.
greenspan_fan: there were ill effects, but it was kinda priced in at that point
mircea_popescu: people imagine exchanges are fundamental to bitcoin price. they'll close, no ill effects to be recorded.
Chris_Sabian: save the drop in price from 135-88-120
asciilifeform: (for anyone unfamiliar with 'djvu', it's an old but irreplaceable format specifically for warez scans. wavelet-compressed images. no turing-complete vector rendering as in pdf.)
greenspan_fan: people immediately bought on the dip
greenspan_fan: the concern is that speculation is pretty fundamental to current price and exchanges facilitate that
mircea_popescu: speculation of the sort and type that the exchanges enable and reddit/forum/.etc support is about as fundamental to bitcoin as druggies were.
Chris_Sabian: look the last 2 steep rises, april and nov-dec. the price shot up then peaked and dropped to ~1/2 value
Chris_Sabian: it stayed that way for several months
greenspan_fan: it kinda depends if it's past the point where adoption is widespread enough to sustain an economy w/o needing easy conversion between fiat and btc
asciilifeform: perhaps if the public exchanges perish, people will be cured of the habit of treating 'btc price in X' as a scalar.
benkay: dat fuzzy probability zone
benkay: "how much does a bitcoin cost?"
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan "adoption" means something strictly different from pageviews
mircea_popescu: bitcoin's adoption among people worth six digits or less is irrelevant.
benkay: "how good is your WOT?"
Chris_Sabian: http://coinmap.org/
ozbot: CoinMap
asciilifeform: what does cocaine cost. or, for that matter, aluminum.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and perhaps we'll be fucking rid of all the forum investors.
mircea_popescu: im all for it.
greenspan_fan: mircea_popescu worth how? I have less than 100 000 btc, for example
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan dollah i meant.
mircea_popescu: bitcoin is like, you know, reactionary, conservative, evil, sane. you're either rich or smart or invisible.
asciilifeform: the answer here, i suspect, depends on whether you like the taste of bullocks.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform more like cats.
mircea_popescu: bullocks would be ok, but the "six digits or less" is equal to saying in that other context "60 kgs or over"
greenspan_fan: but it's also pretty experimental, is the thing
mircea_popescu: so is atc.
greenspan_fan: there's a few things like mathematical breakthroughs re: hash functions or serious bugs in the client that could tank the price
mircea_popescu: definitely.
mircea_popescu: serious bugs not so much, really.
greenspan_fan: (or, if you prefer, value) and it's hard to account for those
mircea_popescu: hash function can be a huge problem.
mircea_popescu: this incidentally is why bitcoin addresses are encoded so layeredly.
mircea_popescu: even if you somehow bash one hash function in, you still don't really have enough yet
mircea_popescu: and stuff will have to be emergency-migrated.
greenspan_fan: if you're able to break SHA-256 you'd end up w/ a majority of the hashing power if you were smart
greenspan_fan: then couldn't you block the migration?
chetty: https://discuss.financialjuice.com/uploads/default/1300/009b0c1ddc148fee.jpg
mircea_popescu: not practically.
mircea_popescu: if your crack is not known, then maybe for a while you can benefit from it.
mircea_popescu: if it IS known however the code will just be patched to take it out, and people will move on the new system for cause
mircea_popescu: and you can do whatever you want on the old chain.
greenspan_fan: but how do you coordinate moving to the new system? and what if that takes too long?
mircea_popescu: it takes all of five minutes
mircea_popescu: "hi guise, here is problem, here is patch, pls install so and so"
greenspan_fan: I think you're underestimating how hard it would be to patch
mircea_popescu: or maybe you overestimate.
mircea_popescu: what's the thinking ?
mircea_popescu: (your q was as to coordinate moving, not as to patching, mind)
greenspan_fan: well look at transaction malleability; doesn't seem like a huge problem, but it hasn't been fixed yet
mircea_popescu: well ?
Apocalyptic: it's not an issue
mircea_popescu: when you say sha was breached you're not describing some nitnoy thing nobody cares about.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.48101 = 0.962 BTC [-]
greenspan_fan: well yeah, but there comes a point when subverting btc is the most profitable use of a breakthrough, hence the first thing it'd be used for
mircea_popescu: so ?
greenspan_fan: in the interim between breach, patch being devised and patch being promulgated, you'd have zero activity
mircea_popescu: so you would.
greenspan_fan: and that doesn't constitute a huge problem?
Duffer1: that assumes a patch hasn't already been made
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan not really. bitcoin is not visa.
greenspan_fan: mircea_popescu as you say, not a problem for reasonably wealthy individuals, but it means that if you don't already have a lot of fiat currency, you can't rely on bitcoin
Duffer1: software changes, it'd be annoying sure and the media shitfest will be epic, but neither of those things matter
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan not sure if you ever read http://trilema.com/2013/bitcoin-prices-bitcoin-inflexibility/#comment-92015 ?
greenspan_fan: one sec, finding a new proxy...
mircea_popescu: and no, you should not rely on bitcoin. this has been explicitly stated since day one. bitcoin is not here for you to rely on.
benkay: greenspan_fan: you don't need credits for comments.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.06800001 = 0.136 BTC [-]
KRS-One: .bait
ozbot: http://24.media.tumblr.com/0230a601ff554ecdd6d2941552f4d89f/tumblr_msi3siUEvs1r1rxrbo1_500.jpg
greenspan_fan: OK, so the contention is that things that are faster to process (such as cash or credit) are expected to allow for retail level/immediate transaction, while btc is more of a long term store of value, right?
mircea_popescu: well, more of a long term slower moving thing yeah
mircea_popescu: let's do some napkin calculations here.
greenspan_fan: brb, all I have is paper
mircea_popescu: built-in ccp delay on a payment, ~1 second. built in btc delay on a payment, ~10 minutes.
mircea_popescu: tolerable ccp service outage, ~one day, from experience so far.
mircea_popescu: thus therefore, tolerable btc outage should be something like 2 years.
greenspan_fan: absent some other similar currency overtaking it due to the delay
mircea_popescu: obviously presuming liniarty and so on and so forth, but just for the sake of it.
greenspan_fan: which is the case for the short term
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan well presumably whatever suspends btc suspends all btc-likes
mircea_popescu: otherwise btc is just borkt and needs fixing
asciilifeform: time to digest a meal: ~6 hours. does that mean that one should be able to go without meal for ~72 yrs?
benkay: not that this actually prevents anyone from exchanging btc, provided they're sufficiently trusty
benkay: "here - take this pre-signed transaction"
mircea_popescu: benkay actually, no trust needed.
benkay: now, you're dependent on the technical ability of your counterparty to track and not double-spend.
mircea_popescu: "here, take this pre-signed tx, put it in your block"
mircea_popescu: i mean, we can do blockchain propagation and mining via email ffs.
mircea_popescu: this was actually tested back in the old days of mpoe, works just fine.
benkay: well what does it mean for bitcoin to be stopped!?
mircea_popescu: ikr?
asciilifeform: is there a scenario with 'paper & pencil btc' that does not reduce to simply 'Hawala' ?
benkay: i'm going back to figuring out how to represent a 32-bit int in ragel on java.
mircea_popescu: fucking java.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if one takes a conceptual hawala rather than any particular historical implementation, no.
benkay: you can say that again.
benkay: "stench of the cube farm"
mircea_popescu: course this is more of a case of hawala reduces to bitcoin
greenspan_fan: Well, given the above, I expect that btc is just a placeholder for something that will have numerous quantitative technical improvements.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> time to digest a meal: ~6 hours. does that mean that one should be able to go without meal for ~72 yrs << yes, if they were a payment processor.
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan so did satoshi.
mircea_popescu: reality does not care what we expect, turns out.
benkay: i expect a new whore at the door
greenspan_fan: how does one calculate EV in whores?
asciilifeform: to go back to the 'peasant never saw a gold coin' scenario. a peasant, correct. how about a shipyard?
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan not clear, but er is the clap.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform go on ?
asciilifeform: idea being, gold was never purely a long-term store
greenspan_fan: at some point, you need to be able to exchange for things to have value
benkay: but the "you" here can vary, and does not include pizzas
asciilifeform: one can picture a degenerate case - e.g. hydrogen bomb
benkay: more like "o now i have credit for a billion pizzas at this local bitcoin brokerage"
greenspan_fan: wouldn't the degenerate case be a strangelet?
asciilifeform: in the sense of the ultimate 'trading sardine'
asciilifeform: (strongly negative 'use value')
asciilifeform: trying to think of items which act as store of value in some useful sense without really being spendable
asciilifeform: and whether the phrase 'store of value' even makes sense here.
greenspan_fan: perhaps things that would fall under the category of intellectual property?
benkay: it's arguably only contextual in a world in which nobody can really ant their hard work away.
greenspan_fan: I can't spend "knowing how to make an engine", but knowing that I can do that (and having the plans/information to do so) stores value
benkay: or rather it's astronomically difficult to do so.
asciilifeform: we can talk about 'storing energy' and come to rational conclusions about physically-real things (e.g. organisms.) and then we can talk about storing 'value', and end up with pseudo-scientific strange...
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan this seems to me a completely unwarranted generalisation that actrually breaks logic.
mircea_popescu: no, it does not "store value" any more than "empathy" as used by the libertard is either human or virtuous.
asciilifeform: 'value' is phlogiston.
greenspan_fan: mircea_popescu you're right, it does seem to beg the question...
greenspan_fan: trying to define why something is valuable is hard enough without also restricting the ability to spend it
mircea_popescu: not that there's anything wrong with trying anything and everything on the beast.
mircea_popescu: roughly we're in the situation of "dragon moved in hillside next to village"
mircea_popescu: threowing a virgin that way once or twice is sensible.
asciilifeform: to complete the picture, 'dragon' turns out to be a peculiarly-shaped active volcano.
mircea_popescu: no it's a dragon
mircea_popescu: you're just looking at its zit.
asciilifeform: precisely that.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> idea being, gold was never purely a long-term store <<< this will need fleshing out.
mircea_popescu: seems to me it was purely a long term store.
mircea_popescu: people short-term stored in silver.
chetty: storing value is actually a bet isn't it? That there will be a future to use it in.
mircea_popescu: that's no sort of bet.
mircea_popescu: if there's no future you've not lost anything.
greenspan_fan: opportunity cost, assuming you could store elsewhere, which you can
chetty: yeah you have, the use today of whatever you stored
greenspan_fan: btc will continue to be valuable because it has previously been valuable and there's the expectation that, over some acceptable time period, you can exchange it
greenspan_fan: the uncertainty comes from the second part, because it's a new protocol and it's difficult to predict what might impact your ability to exchange it
greenspan_fan: the things I'm thinking of are either flaws in the protocol, flaws in the software, concerted regulation or an attack via a sufficiently powerful adversary
asciilifeform: the common factor between btc and gold, etc. is (no surprise to anyone, i hope) - behaviour as a closed (i.e. conserved) system, and easily verified as such
greenspan_fan: how much would it cost to get enough hashing power to wreck the network? how long would you have to disrupt the network before it becomes far less valuable?
asciilifeform: recommended reading: the different ways in which self-proclaimed alchemists were treated in various times and places.
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan it's not strictly a matter of cost.
mircea_popescu: people are currently desperate to buy stuff to wreck the network with
mircea_popescu: noone's selling.
mircea_popescu: the computational cost of the network has been calculated, on trilema, it was scary back then. it's way worse now.
asciilifeform: this is predicated on the assumption of brute force, though.
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2013/things-that-matter-these-days-things-that-dont-matter-these-days/
ozbot: Things that matter these days ; things that don’t matter these days. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mirce
mircea_popescu: article in question.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well sure.
greenspan_fan: as an example, if you were paypal, could you afford to design, build, and power enough asics to wreck the network?
mircea_popescu: look throguh the math there, do your own calculations.
BingoBoingo: Depends on who finds the shortcut. If someone manages to math in a way that a GPU hashes like an army of buttfuries, they may just quietly collect coins. coins.
mircea_popescu: then someone emulates quantum computers in a zx80 emulator emularted within a gpu card and bam
mircea_popescu: ahahaha von-schlep
asciilifeform: any one of you folks who wants to actually give this a go, scroll up the log to find the n-sat solver... haha
asciilifeform: '...the first woodpecker would destroy civilization' - but he can't be arsed.
greenspan_fan: it's a question of economics-- is subverting a cryptocurrency worth more to you than profiting from it?
asciilifeform: 'some just wanna watch it burn'
greenspan_fan: "if you want a picture of the future, it's us collecting a 3% transaction fee... forever"
mircea_popescu: http://minigame.bz/eulora/binaries/ << new eulora release.
mircea_popescu: includes source. davout pankkake
mircea_popescu: and i forget who else was asking me about it.
mircea_popescu: it also includes basic crafting and skill training and harvesting and recipes and stuff.
mod6: cool!
greenspan_fan: what is it?
chetty: greenspan_fan, eulora, mmorpg
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: can you quickly say, what is the largest number of legal moves possible for one chess player, in any position?
BingoBoingo: I cannot.
asciilifeform: (i can easily estimate an upper bound, using 'ah he has 16 queens')
asciilifeform: idly wondering about a 'provably fair' blockchain chess-for-coin
asciilifeform: as i fall asleep
BingoBoingo: Sure, but tightening that upper bound gets messy. Even 16 queens block each other, restricting movement.
asciilifeform: sure
asciilifeform: my 1st thought was 'referee has canonical enumerator for legal moves. player moves by encoding integer M'
asciilifeform: 'first player who cannot M > 0 lost'
asciilifeform: but then, repeated-move stalemates
asciilifeform: and the like
BingoBoingo: That could work.
asciilifeform: (for completeness of picture, first player who moves with M' > M (illegal) also lost. clearly.)
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan http://trilema.com/category/smg/
asciilifeform: if the bip-whatever voodoo mentioned earlier actually gets baked into the blockchain, one could conceivably play this game
asciilifeform: without a referee
BingoBoingo: Then there's the part where M=0 stalemates exist.
asciilifeform: (the pot would automagically move to the winner)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no because each game could only be played once ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: moves would be carried out by sending to an addr generated for the purpose
mircea_popescu: uh
asciilifeform: low bits of sum <-> move
asciilifeform: winner keeps the total
asciilifeform: of course, this is foolish, because we've the angels but not the pin-head.
asciilifeform: unless i'm missing something.
BingoBoingo: Well, it would require all four low digits.
asciilifeform: sure, for a low stake game, the moves are the pot.
asciilifeform: you could play this right now, sans voodoo, and it would look quite like the 'provably fair' dice widgets
asciilifeform: (someone is driving the payouts, but you can trivially verify, having only the blockchain, that he never did anything other than the Right Thing)
asciilifeform: hell, no fancy encodings needed, just stuff normal algebraic notation in
BingoBoingo: Right.
moiety: yay a new way i could lose?
asciilifeform: (12 bits)
asciilifeform: this is so trivial, that if it does not already exist, it is purely from lack of interest in the game
asciilifeform: is worth considering even if you don't like to play for coin. encourages slow games...
BingoBoingo: Sure.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.5049 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.5049 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.5049 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: https://twitter.com/krtek_net/status/436386804372344832
ozbot: Twitter / krtek_net: Mtgox is sorting orders, waiiting ...
mircea_popescu: lmao check out this shit.
mircea_popescu: who was asking about "interveaving" ?
benkay: intervaging
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell bloctoc there is oyur answer : it stopped dropping because they've stopped executing orders under X value.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: if you put an order to sell they'll just delay it until someone bids enough.
benkay: thereby guaranteeing a rapid dissolution of fractional reserve?
benkay: "oops! guess we ran out."
BingoBoingo: I'm impressed it took them this long.
mircea_popescu: benkay all it seems it'd do would be cut down volume
mircea_popescu: i suppose maybe maintain the appearance of things working in the eyes of complete noobs for an extra... hours ? coupla days ?
benkay: is there a bitbet on capitulation?
mircea_popescu: not afaik
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.06801 = 0.204 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.068 = 0.272 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/smg-eulora-v004/ <<
ozbot: S.MG - Eulora v0.0.4 pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.10199999 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30400 @ 0.00086615 = 26.331 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.5 = 1 BTC [-]
moiety: people are so ridiculous. http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/japan-woman-chased-by-stampeding-herd-rabbits-video-1437033 they say she makes a lucky escape....
moiety: she's fucking feeding them!
BingoBoingo: If it can happen to Jimmy Carter.
moiety: lol! i didn't know about this "incident"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.48112 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9100 @ 0.00086609 = 7.8814 BTC [-] {2}
moiety: was not disappointed! lol wiki has a pic of the rabbit "swimming away from the President" ffs lol
BingoBoingo: Bunnies make the perfect sleeper agents
moiety: i thought it was hilarious when they accused the downing street cat of being a spy
moiety: it had been missing and turned up one day randomly where it shouldn't have been, so they got all suspicious of it lol
BingoBoingo: Well the sufficiently paranoid could assume a bug was sewn into the cat.
moiety: yep exactly what they thought
moiety: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/06/10/is-george-osbornes-cat-freya-chinese-spy_n_3415629.html
ozbot: Is George Osborne's Cat Freya A Chinese Spy?
moiety: she had been gone 3 years
moiety: poor cat
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 9 @ 0.48095233 = 4.3286 BTC [-] {6}
mircea_popescu: all this derpage re @wesuck or whatever that thing's called reads to me a lot like "o hey we here at dead-fiat-ventures wish to make a last stand against this evil bitcoin empire"
mircea_popescu: "we still work! look! please! care!"
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: The gawker rag Valleyway (the one with hedgec0k) has been running some lulzy bitcoin stuff you should probably have one of the girls archive.
mircea_popescu: nah, that's one of those venues which gets blacklisted in integrum.
mircea_popescu: makes little difference what anyone working for gawker actually said, having worked for it is enough.
mircea_popescu: maybe fleshbot being an exception or w/e.
BingoBoingo: I could see Deadspin surviving with Fleshbot.
mircea_popescu: fun fact : back in 2008 (ie, as the crisis hit) denton suspended their bonus package.
mircea_popescu: 133 people were sharing about 50k a month in bonuses
mircea_popescu: rationale being "nobody gives a shit about pageviews"
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 50000 / 133 / 650
gribble: 0.578368999422
mircea_popescu: half a bitcoin a month on average. how's that for a bonus.
BingoBoingo: A half a Bitcoin is pretty sweet. The equivalent in shitbucks not so much.
mircea_popescu: but hey, you know. cocksuckers making enough to pay for either their own coffee or their own sugar opine on matters.
greenspan_fan: I wonder if the opining actually shapes matters, like, at all?
greenspan_fan: because the self-perception of influence is part of the compensation
BingoBoingo: Eh, at least Gawker has some elements like Fleshbot that could survive. Huffington post and Buzzfeed though, lack even that.
greenspan_fan: I think you underestimate how easy a content aggregator is to run
greenspan_fan: if all your "employees" work for free, then everything else is profit
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan the self-perception of importance is pretty much the whole of the compensation.
mircea_popescu: the influence however, is exactly zero.
greenspan_fan: I worked at one point for a place that was getting into social media, but once you're out of that sort of giddy milieu it just doesn't seem like it's much of a priority
mircea_popescu: i mean sure, steal and distribute warez, get qt pissed off.
mircea_popescu: but in that sense piratebay eats their cookie.
BingoBoingo: I think we should replace this "content aggregating" with pankakke's brilliant term "assass"
greenspan_fan: ass as a service?
mircea_popescu: ahahaha
BingoBoingo: Of course.
greenspan_fan: amazing idea: netflix for prostitution
BingoBoingo: The original assass contains interesting things. The lesser assasses AOL it up.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 18 @ 0.46286778 = 8.3316 BTC [-] {8}
greenspan_fan: I already have a tagline: the world's newest profession
greenspan_fan: is y combinator taking applications?
mircea_popescu: sure.
greenspan_fan: I think it would be worthwhile to apply w/ that idea, like a startup version of the sokal affair
BingoBoingo: greenspan_fan: To my knowledge they process applications in batches. Kind of like the Army except without the filtering to keep bona fide retards out of camp.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.461 = 1.844 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 8 @ 0.461 = 3.688 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20350 @ 0.00086434 = 17.5893 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: all you have to do is convincingly suck up.
mircea_popescu: go identify who the guys involved are, send girls to fuck each of them,
mircea_popescu: then get the girls together for the public pitch
mircea_popescu: you're in.
mircea_popescu: play the "womenz in tech" angle for maximum butthurt later on.
chetty: womenz in tech is an angle??
greenspan_fan: hopefully an acute one, HA HA HA HA HA
BingoBoingo: In the People
mircea_popescu: for these schmucks it's nothing but an angle.
BingoBoingo: 's Republic of California it is
greenspan_fan: is it really? or is that just something that everyone pretends to value because the alternative is constant broadsides from the SJ crowd?
chetty: does any real person care what the SJ crowd does/says?
greenspan_fan: maybe? I honestly can't tell
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan well, it's like in any socialist state : some people go along because they hope to get something from it,
mircea_popescu: most just nod it off.
mircea_popescu: there are entire career paths financed on the public dole which consist of nothing but pretending like the crap matters,
mircea_popescu: and so... you know, economic recovery. we've hired more people to do nothing, go us.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16850 @ 0.0008669 = 14.6073 BTC [+] {3}
BingoBoingo: Well, a lot of roads I have little occasion look much more impressive than they used to. Doesn't offer much utility though.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.068 = 0.272 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.06700111 = 0.402 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.46100001 = 1.844 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23150 @ 0.00086724 = 20.0766 BTC [+] {2}
greenspan_fan: any recommendations for bulk image viewers for OS X?
greenspan_fan: I have an absurd number of graphs in assorted subdirectories...
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.46100001 = 1.844 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.461 = 0.922 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 15 @ 0.46 = 6.9 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.451 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.4501 BTC [-]
cazalla: that gox bet is looking good now
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 244 @ 0.00479645 = 1.1703 BTC [-] {17}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 15 @ 0.45 = 6.75 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: cazalla: Which one? link plox
cazalla: http://bitbet.us/bet/281/btc-usd-at-mtgox-will-be-above-150-on/
BingoBoingo: cazalla: It actually looked better days ago when I pointed it out to KRS-One
cazalla: would've been a nice no 11 months ago
cazalla: guessing it'll still resolve as yes
BingoBoingo: Well, if Gox keeps their order matching shennanigans up
mircea_popescu: https://twitter.com/Mircea_Popescu/status/436429248740728832
ozbot: Twitter / Mircea_Popescu: @Falkvinge @kLee1977 I'll bet ...
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i can't find people to take these easy bets with
BingoBoingo: Things like gox fucking with order matching though need to be considered in these bets. Anticipating SatoshiDice would probably not be listed on MPEx for the full length of 2013 make pushed me to put a whole BTC on S.BBet being worth more back in February.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Well, you have been seasoned as a strategic consultant.
BingoBoingo: Thinking decades instead of hours.
BingoBoingo: Whatsapp is too Myspace to have value. WhatsApp embraces customers too poor for actual tools.
BingoBoingo: Kinda like Microsoft.
BingoBoingo: DE however, when fiat fails has a lot of copper and fiber.
B007: Microsoft? I don't think you know what you're talking about
BingoBoingo: B007: How little do consumers have to pay for WIndows?
B007: So? Microsoft sells to corporations
BingoBoingo: Generally Windows is bundled with a consumer machine and consumers accept that to not learn better things.
B007: true
BingoBoingo: The entire microsoft ecosystem from Basic in the 70's to nao is that doing better things is more expensive in terms of time to learn the right ways.
B007: but I don't think you can compare Microsoft to WhatsApp
BingoBoingo: Now that WIndows is so entrenched with lusers over decades, they have been able to force a sorporate ecosystem, because learning is bad Mkay.
BingoBoingo: B007: What is the problematic point?
BingoBoingo: This fake messaging network business whatsapp is in isn't too different from the fake software development tools business Microsoft started with
B007: Microsoft is vastly different from a messageing app
BingoBoingo: It wasn't at its inception. This is the old "Fake it until you make it" 30k millionaire shit.
B007: yeah
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.06888867 = 0.1378 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.06888829 = 0.3444 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: The thing is there just aren't opportunites to do this anymore really.
B007: sure there are
B007: you are in the wrong business son
BingoBoingo: Maybe, but I'm not in the wrong business that Facebook and Whatsapp are
B007: advertising?
BingoBoingo: B007: Deception. THey are in the deception business.
B007: hshs
BingoBoingo: http://science.slashdot.org/story/14/02/20/0312253/math-models-predicted-global-uprisings
ozbot: Math Models Predicted Global Uprisings - Slashdot
mircea_popescu: what was the lowest consumer license for windoze, like 50 bux ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: For OEMs I hink I've read it goes down to at least $25
mircea_popescu: nominally
mircea_popescu: prolly goes down to 25 by going up to 90
BingoBoingo: Well, MS's money comes largely from WIndows volume and selling Office and Visual studio.
BingoBoingo: MS's priority for WIndows has to be keeping the number of Windows installs up to keep selling Office and Visual Studios.
chetty: I really fail to understand why anyone would still be using windows
BingoBoingo: chetty: Inertia and aversion to learning I imagine.
mircea_popescu: "it just works"
mircea_popescu: no wait, that's the other one.
BingoBoingo: The other one hasn't just worked since version 7.5.1
BingoBoingo: Windows seems more to just be a fear of any other name. Call it pudding and they will ignore it is shit.
mircea_popescu: goatse.os
mircea_popescu: i have a new formula for computing the market value of bitcoin
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31100 @ 0.00086842 = 27.0079 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: number of articles published discussing bitcoin / number of sensible things said.
mircea_popescu: it works for all currencies pretty much.
mircea_popescu: when bitcoin gets close to about pi it's time to sell.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 90 @ 0.00453677 = 0.4083 BTC [-] {8}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 79 @ 0.00433875 = 0.3428 BTC [-] {7}
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: So atm RSS beats herbi?
mircea_popescu: how's that ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: It give you articles published on bitcoin. Reading gives you the sensible things. Then math.
mircea_popescu: i read very little and understand even less.
BingoBoingo: Isn't that what the girls are for?
mircea_popescu: i was talking to a friend earlier and i said "tis hard being a woman". she retorted "yeah, not only our brains don't work but tits and asses both droop with time too!"
mircea_popescu: it's hard all around my brothar. hard times.
MisterE: MS got teh Enterprise
MisterE: and thats what matters
mircea_popescu: actually it
BingoBoingo: MisterE: for some definitions of enterprise.
mircea_popescu: s been making huge gains on webhosting.
MisterE: when you're stacking Benjis
MisterE: ^
MisterE: hate to say it but Azure was good before the upgrade now I hear no complaints
MisterE: coz I root for the to fail heh
BingoBoingo: Is Microsoft actually making gains or are the finally moving Hotmail off of FreeBSD
mircea_popescu: seems a combination of really shitty hosting and people running servers on their home broadband
BingoBoingo: Well all of those spam sites need to point .info and .pw domains somewhere.
Namworld: https://www.mtgox.com/img/pdf/20140220-Announcement.pdf
Namworld: Exclusive news
Namworld: Before it's posted officially.
Namworld: They should change their pdf naming standard.
mircea_popescu: jajaja
mircea_popescu: well done
mircea_popescu: Namworld ty, i dumped it on twitter :D
Namworld: It's posted now it seems on gox.
Namworld: Well that was quick.
mircea_popescu: lol
wao-ender: :D
Namworld: This announcement is as stupid as the previous one. Who would have thought.
BingoBoingo: GoxBTC is headed to the CORE!!!
Namworld: Protesters were a security threat?
BingoBoingo: Namworld: They didn't want to let Mark hug out the scam accusations
mircea_popescu: such a roflmao thing
mircea_popescu: mtgox turns out to be about as good as bfl.
BingoBoingo: Well... Most people took 18 months to abandon BFL. Gox went, what... a whole 24 months before getting called out?
Namworld: Or worse
mircea_popescu: Bitcoin Foundation businesses! FTW!
Namworld: They aren't done yet proving themselves.
Namworld: They could become the best worst.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.488 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: this is true.
BingoBoingo: I'm still leaving the offer out there if Goldman or JPM wants to try outrunning YCombinator that I tucked in my footnotes
mircea_popescu: the problem you run into is this : they do not wish to actually matter in the world that is, they wish to instead live in a world they'd prefer.
mircea_popescu: that you can't do for them, nobody can, and so until they learn to submit you;re not going to have business there.
jurov: Sooo...infamous bitcoinbourse.eu is going to allow for trading of stocks...another lulzround begins?
jurov: But Markus is far less competent than ukyo/burnside...so prolly not.
mircea_popescu: there is a lot of competition in being the best worst.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.10208 = 0.5104 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12800 @ 0.00086434 = 11.0636 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I watched La Terra Trema. JP Morgan will have to find a wholesaler sometime.
mircea_popescu: hehe what did you thinkl ?
BingoBoingo: It ended how the Merchant of Venice should have.
mircea_popescu: hehe
BingoBoingo: Had to watch it twice since I understand spoken Spanish survivably but Italian not so much.
ThickAsThieves: i might win! <cazalla> http://bitbet.us/bet/281/btc-usd-at-mtgox-will-be-above-150-on/
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Which side you take, this could be thrilling
ThickAsThieves: ;;ticker --market mtgox
gribble: MtGox BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 150.0, Best ask: 153.216, Bid-ask spread: 3.21600, Last trade: 150.0, 24 hour volume: 67216.83064744, 24 hour low: 134.09756, 24 hour high: 276.24152, 24 hour vwap: 201.18216
ThickAsThieves: i'm on No
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: You realize the bet it for that particular day and not before.
ThickAsThieves: i know
ThickAsThieves: but they are dead
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: They were on a ventilator 9 months. Most sane courts would have unplugged the vegetable.
ThickAsThieves: "In addition to the technical issue, this week we have experienced some
ThickAsThieves: security problems, and as a result we had to relocate MtGox to our previous office building
ThickAsThieves: in Shibuya (details can be found here https://support.mtgox.com/home). The move,
ThickAsThieves: combined with some other security and technical challenges, pushed back our progress."
ThickAsThieves: lol!
ThickAsThieves: "As much as we didn’t want to only provide an “update on an update”, this is the current
ThickAsThieves: status. We are committed to solving this issue and will provide more information as soon
ThickAsThieves: as possible to keep everyone in the loop."
ThickAsThieves: "
ThickAsThieves: We are very sorry for the delays and deeply appreciate your kind understanding and
ThickAsThieves: continuous support."
ThickAsThieves: yay!
ThickAsThieves: sorry i'm delirious from randomly waking up too early cuz i had feeling itd be crashing
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: I'm only one timezone over and haven't slept yet.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 80 @ 0.00465587 = 0.3725 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.48809999 = 1.9524 BTC [+] {2}
ThickAsThieves: time for bitbets on mark's freedom
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo it must have subtitles neh ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Subtitles would have blocked too much misery from my eyes.
mircea_popescu: this is true
ThickAsThieves: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 597.0, Best ask: 599.58, Bid-ask spread: 2.58000, Last trade: 600.0, 24 hour volume: 22132.64616219, 24 hour low: 590.0, 24 hour high: 636.0, 24 hour vwap: 615.145591973
mircea_popescu: you know visconti had amateurs shoot the whole thing ?
mircea_popescu: those people actually lived in those houses,
mircea_popescu: if not exactly under the medieval conditions described.
ThickAsThieves: omg how do i get cash into gox someone should arb that /s
BingoBoingo: Yeah. Between viewings one and two I did the paper reading.
mircea_popescu: but when the girl is barefoot on the dirt floor, that's her own dirt floor she's barefood on.
BingoBoingo: barefood sounds much sexier than that scene.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile check out gabridome https://twitter.com/Gabridome/status/436454038251769856
BingoBoingo: Fuck, I dunno who that is.
davout: jurov: didn't he allow that earlier already?
BingoBoingo: davout: You still interested in that chess tournament?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo http://dpaste.com/1641614/
mircea_popescu: that's back in 2013.
mircea_popescu: epic ;;ticker results.
BingoBoingo: That is nearly when I made my first appearance.
cazalla: ThickAsThieves: you may!
davout: BingoBoingo: are you guys done with the first one ?
ThickAsThieves: hehe #mtgox is muted
BingoBoingo: davout: We were coming to an inevitable tiebreaker problem so we added Apocalyptic an six player could help reduce ties still further.
BingoBoingo: Caveat is the kicker I supposed for this months long tournament is expiring on the 28th, because obligations can not be kept open forever.
davout: BingoBoingo: ok, with pleasure! I can't play right now tho
BingoBoingo: davout: Neither can I.
mircea_popescu: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bf1PkUeCAAAVhe3.png
mircea_popescu: on the left vs the right, the effects of the deterioration of public schooling.
mircea_popescu: fucktards don't even know what words mean these days.
jurov: davout: previously only bourse shares were sold, not even trading them was possible.
mircea_popescu: accepting credit cards is a skill. exponential, logarithmic, this year alone or whatever else. it's all a soup.
mircea_popescu: fucking embarrassment these kids.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: We covered dictionaries in primary school that I remember.
mircea_popescu: i'm sure they covered "issues" in primary school.
BingoBoingo: Sure. We covered tornadoes, fire, and earthquakes in that order
mircea_popescu: "WhatsApp founder Jan Koum signs deal with FB at social services office where he used to get food stamps. "
mircea_popescu: can this be more doge ?
BingoBoingo: No, this is total Doge.
mircea_popescu: "Facebook is now buying out anything that 14 year olds might use for billions of dollars. Good thing they're using stock and not real money."
BingoBoingo: A great troll campaign would be Corgis against Doge.
mircea_popescu: at least i got some sane people in my feed.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Thing is only 3 billion in that acquisition was stock
mircea_popescu: i didn't actually dig into it.
ThickAsThieves: who is john galt?
mircea_popescu: fictional character.
mircea_popescu: hm, pussy riot is actually a punk band ?!
mircea_popescu: in what fucking sense ? i thought they were pop.
BingoBoingo: Always just been a punk band.
BingoBoingo: Russia is still catching up to the 70's
ThickAsThieves: and a harem of active-ists
BingoBoingo: Next thing you will tell me Russian discos are closing in favor of night clubs
mircea_popescu: how the fuck is it punk
BingoBoingo: And then they've reached the 80's
davout: BingoBoingo: wasn't it the opposite, only 3bn in cash?
mircea_popescu: meanwhile,
mircea_popescu: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/weird-news/viking-apocalypse-end-of-the-world-predicted-to-happen-on-saturday-but-dont-cancel-your-weekend-plans-yet-9138092.html?origin=internalSearch
ozbot: Viking apocalypse: End of the world predicted to happen on Saturday (but don't cancel your weekend
ThickAsThieves: it's punk cuz they can only make music with their thumbs
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Horses and beedles.
BingoBoingo: *needles
mircea_popescu: Virgin Mary, Mother of God, put Putin away Рut Putin away, put Putin away
mircea_popescu: Black robe, golden epaulettes All parishioners crawl to bow The phantom of liberty is in heaven Gay-pride sent to Siberia in chains
mircea_popescu: The head of the KGB, their chief saint, Leads protesters to prison under escort In order not to offend His Holiness Women must give birth and love
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo does this sound like punk to you ?
BingoBoingo: davout: I might have to read again, because vodka. Shame you can't play chess nao.
ThickAsThieves: http://imgur.com/5hdErlO
ozbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
mircea_popescu: Virgin Mary, Mother of God, become a feminist
mircea_popescu: Become a feminist, become a feminist
mircea_popescu: this is not punk lol. this is lib-pop.
davout: BingoBoingo: i'm pondering whether i should play myself or let my little brother play against you
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Sounds more metal.
mircea_popescu: metal. women. what ?
BingoBoingo: davout: Honestly it is prolly more about timing
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Nothing is more metal than a miscarriage stage show.
davout: BingoBoingo: no, my lil bro would probably beat me to a pulp
davout: BingoBoingo: what timezone are you in?
davout: US West?
mircea_popescu: get out, pussy is not metal.
BingoBoingo: davout: If we go on those criteria I could prolly hire a jew, but I am GMT -6
davout: east i meant
BingoBoingo: Equivalent of US central
BingoBoingo: davout: I have to warn you though that I have lost to Namworld (though truffles beat Namworld)
davout: what do you use to keep track of the board's state ?
BingoBoingo: davout: Algrbraic notation.
BingoBoingo: Post moves in channel
davout: to keep track of, not to communicate
davout: as in, i don't have an actual board at hand to do this
BingoBoingo: Oh, I set up a board on the floor next to my desk
davout: haha
davout: ok
BingoBoingo: Other people use web tools
davout: we're getting there
jurov: davout: have you seen my question why b-c isn't listed anywhere?
davout: jurov: no
davout: where is it?
mircea_popescu: The $19 billion deal -- $12 billion in stock, $4 billion in cash and $3 billion in restricted shares
jurov: Ok :) so am asking now, why it't not on btccharts nor bitcoinity?
mircea_popescu: so there we go.
davout: jurov: because i haven't put in the time yet to re-enable their API
davout: i tried to push the job on pankkake
jurov: Well. And maintaining x.eur asks are pushed on whom?
jurov: Delisting imminent :D
davout: lolwut
jurov: Atm all asks are mine.
mircea_popescu: davout fb buying snapchat.
mircea_popescu: oops i mean webchat
mircea_popescu: uh.
mircea_popescu: something.
davout: jurov: lemme have a look
BingoBoingo: Eh, ATC should have stayed Openex only https://x-bt.com/markets/atcbtc is so dead
BingoBoingo: Nearly all orders are mine.
jurov: davout don't sweat it, i'm in teasing mood
ThickAsThieves: it never left
ThickAsThieves: trade both
ThickAsThieves: if you dare
davout: jurov: yo. i still want to know what's up
mircea_popescu: needs better advertising
davout: prolly outta BTC
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Maybe I am doing both. x-bt killed Openex volume and orders
ThickAsThieves: <Matt38> Hope we got something new on monday atleast.
ThickAsThieves: poor goxer
davout: jurov: oic, my bot's algo is not very evolved yet, and won't place orders if it results in executions
davout: jurov: i'll widen my spread
davout: i don't have time to work on it right now, but that's something i'll have to fix
mircea_popescu: davout that seems exactly countrary to marketmaking.
ThickAsThieves: marketcockteasing
davout: mircea_popescu: isn't that more arbitrage?
mircea_popescu: well no, marketmaker means exactly you blow out the book on a regular basis if it doesn't conform.
davout: the basic reason to this iirc is that executions that are immediate don't appear in stats
mircea_popescu: not placing orders thatd result in executions is exactly anti-mm behaviour
mircea_popescu: basically the book is ruling you.
mircea_popescu: you're supposed to rule the book
davout: not arguing that, i need some more work to work around the mpex api weirdnesses
davout: also, given the current market conditions i'm pretty ok with widening the spread anyway
davout: or i guess, instead of tracking order by order i can track aggregates
davout: ok imma lunch :-D
mircea_popescu: what weirdness is that!11
ThickAsThieves: "Congress could remove federal funding from academic institutions that decide to boycott Israel."
ThickAsThieves: alrighty
mircea_popescu: "Facebook's purchase price values each Whatsapp user at $40. Whatsapp users pay zero dollars and are not shown ads."
mircea_popescu: ook.
punkman1: they pay $0.99 per year, after the first year
mircea_popescu: i wonder how many actually are a year old.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Most whatsapp users I know are South Asian, so few I imagine
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 17 @ 0.06700633 = 1.1391 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.46000002 = 0.92 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: from what i see here most of their userbase is eu. they got little azn if anything.
BingoBoingo: I thought a quarter of their userbase was split between India, Indonesia, and the Phillipines.
BingoBoingo: Also, lulz https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=471533.msg5231394#msg5231394
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54947 @ 0.00086128 = 47.3248 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: So... Ukraine and Thailand are getting still worse. Will any camwhores live through next week?
BingoBoingo: Also I am very disappointed in Micon for letting himself drop far enough to address this. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=471610.0
ThickAsThieves: "Chevron offers free pizza to make up for deadly fracking explosion"
random_cat: pizza include 10^8 year old anchovies
ThickAsThieves: in "oil"
BingoBoingo: Oh I finally found an episode of Bar Rescue with a Lie, because I am 'Murica's premier expert on Karaoke http://www.spike.com/episodes/bccp83/bar-rescue-karaoke-katastrophe-season-3-ep-308
ThickAsThieves: latest version http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1579346/000119312514058712/d562329ds1a.htm
BingoBoingo: I'm just kinda shocked by how little Micon moves me nao.
BingoBoingo: Last year I was accepting of the March madness pool that was just me and him.
BingoBoingo: This year though going to Seals with Clubs and getting bot robbed and facing a ponzi, it is hard to back an accusation because Micon does to.
ThickAsThieves: was that ever a reason to?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you got botproof ?
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Micon used to be quite the scam early warning system/
mircea_popescu: or more like bothunch
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: bothunch
mircea_popescu: bothunch and the naked bot lunch
BingoBoingo: The bothunch is supported by the wasteland that used to be rich cash games on seals.
davout: mircea_popescu: iirc the stat doesn't tell you about executions for orders that never hit the book
BingoBoingo: It has only been 9 months since I've been ther.
mircea_popescu: davout you know how the tracking thing works ?
davout: mircea_popescu: yeah you linked that previously to me
Bugpowder: Giddyup
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 1000 @ 0.00083746 = 0.8375 BTC [+] {4}
davout: i just need to go from understanding how it works to implementing it
Bugpowder: Anyone selling goxbux??? I hear they are having a 75% off sale
davout: i didn't say it wasn't possible, i said it was handled in a way that qualifies as "a little weird" in my system
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 1000 @ 0.00043542 = 0.4354 BTC [+] {10}
mircea_popescu: davout i can see that yeah
mircea_popescu: jus' checking.
mircea_popescu: Bugpowder maybe lnovy ?
davout: mircea_popescu: so to sum it all up you get a track ID from the synchronous response message
BingoBoingo: Wait, is lnovy Dashe's IRC handle?
davout: so if it isn't in your next stat you conclude it executed
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1000 @ 0.00019798 = 0.198 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: davout: That or niggers.config
davout: BingoBoingo: lolwut
KRS-One: haha
mircea_popescu: davout no. you get a track id in all executed orders. if it matches the hash of an order of yours then that hit the book and disappeared. if it doesn't then your order was on the book and got hit by someone else.
KRS-One: There have been times irl I wish I had that config file.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo whose ?
BingoBoingo: lno *-* WTF is that Dash?
BingoBoingo: Micon though lacks the trust I offered him a year ago.
mircea_popescu: i have no idea what you are sayin
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Anil Dash. I'm trying to imagine his IRC nicks
davout: mircea_popescu: imma look into that
davout: BingoBoingo: you're drunk aren't you
BingoBoingo: davout: Credibly though.
mircea_popescu: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bg6smPtIYAAgYP8.png:large
davout: i can see drunk people. when i'm not high.
mircea_popescu: lol
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 60 @ 0.0055 = 0.33 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 500 @ 0.00044503 = 0.2225 BTC [+] {6}
BingoBoingo: Fuck that map. Drunk chicago is a negative. Shit should be carried to Ohio and dumped in the shit river.
ThickAsThieves: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuZudZFmRgw&list=UUAAgMYqyzm_kT2tgI3HPE2A&feature=c4-overview Mark's cat is named Tibane, like the gox co
ozbot: Tibane's new house (first attempt) - YouTube
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 1000 @ 0.0008518 = 0.8518 BTC [+] {4}
Bugpowder: http://www.datafox.co/blog/googles-buying-all-the-robots/
ozbot: Google’s Buying All the Robots… | DataFox
Bugpowder: THat's a lot of acquisitions
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2000 @ 0.00019981 = 0.3996 BTC [+] {6}
mircea_popescu: google has probably the world's best buyouts department.
mircea_popescu: like, historically.
BingoBoingo: Prolly
BingoBoingo: Not mere historically though.
ThickAsThieves: they are building ed-209 i guess
BingoBoingo: Like. DOD regulations are the only pseudo obstacle kind of success.
Bugpowder: This is all it took for MtGox to fold. http://www.mtgoxprotest.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/P1030097.jpg
davout: omfg, karpeles makes an apple pie on a porn movie sound track
davout: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ3g6IwrZZg&list=UUAAgMYqyzm_kT2tgI3HPE2A
Bugpowder: Compare to Kiev
KRS-One: haha never saw that one
Bugpowder: Mark's sword was less powerful than expected
davout: the music
mircea_popescu: Bugpowder you got your timeline mixed up there.
KRS-One: is he czech?
mircea_popescu: why do people keep doing this re mtgox, event x at t, event y at t+k, o look, y is all it took for x.
KRS-One: french
Bugpowder: That was a happier time for Tux... The pie had not been eaten
davout: i kinda feel sorry for him
mircea_popescu: sure, fat stupid guy caught in a position that wasn';t for him. it's understandable.
KRS-One: for being one of those nerdy fat kids who wears black all the time, thinks he is a genius and believes he is better than everyone else?
mircea_popescu: we had this mildly retarded chick in highschool, her parents kept pushing her to "achieve".
Bugpowder: It does seem that he knows how to bake a nice pie
mircea_popescu: she spent about 16 hours doing homework each day.
davout: Bugpowder: he's french how would he not
mircea_popescu: eventually ended up an assitant uni teacher. generations of freshmen mocked her bitterly.
KRS-One: a misguided soul
mircea_popescu: never got married, never progressed past assistant position, just...
mircea_popescu: just suffered, basically.
mircea_popescu: sad fate.
BingoBoingo: I had fun fucking mildly retarded (in my estimation) girl who was the a star forward on the HS soccer team.
davout: sad
KRS-One: BingoBoingo: retard fucker
mircea_popescu: coulda been a grocery clerk or a florist or a shoe store saleswoman and been just fine.
mircea_popescu: but no, "gotta achieve".
BingoBoingo: She could suck a dick great
mircea_popescu: i don't think anyone ever offered.
KRS-One: BingoBoingo: oh..well then.
BingoBoingo: KRS-One: Prolly just stupid
BingoBoingo: Could suck a great dick though
mircea_popescu: but one time she was walking backwards and ran into a pole
mircea_popescu: so she turned around and apologized
davout: mircea_popescu: florist sounds good!
KRS-One: BingoBoingo: that matters more.
mircea_popescu: which was the lol for a month.
KRS-One: omg mircea_popescu LOL
mircea_popescu: i think your average guy would rather have been caught in bed with a small boy than with her.
KRS-One: hahahhaa omg you got me laughing
KRS-One: i need..
KRS-One: .bait
mircea_popescu: KRS-One stop laughing at tards, have you no conscience ?
ozbot: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9w8cjXFkk1qzn3jqo1_1280.jpg
KRS-One: nope
mircea_popescu: a well.
KRS-One: nah i do have a conscience..its just okay to laugh at life.
mircea_popescu: "Google may have missed skipped social, but they’re bringing together a lot of highly talented teams that are working on:"
mircea_popescu: strategically sound decision.
mircea_popescu: social is worth just about squat.
ThickAsThieves: except they didnt skip social at all
ThickAsThieves: they just failed quickly
BingoBoingo: I still can't believe how disappointing a wee bit of education made Micon
ThickAsThieves: which is just as well
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves failed quickly, moved on, w/e.
ThickAsThieves: at least they didnt buy twitter or whatever
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: I dare you to browse Seals ring games
BingoBoingo: So dead.
ThickAsThieves: all energy emitted from Seals and its people has indicated for me to stay away since first contact
mircea_popescu: that bad eh ?
BingoBoingo: They (Micon) rightly called BFL out as a scam
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Deader than you imagine
mircea_popescu: is poker dead generally or they just stoopid ?
ThickAsThieves: any property worth scooping up in the ashes?
BingoBoingo: Poker is definitely injured
BingoBoingo: The thing I lost to last night could not have been a human player though.
ThickAsThieves: "Google reportedly offered $10 billion for WhatsApp"
ThickAsThieves: bahwell
mircea_popescu: reportedly by whom ?
ThickAsThieves: Furtune
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: By liver sense
ThickAsThieves: http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2014/02/20/google-whatsapp-10-billion/
ozbot: Google offered to buy WhatsApp for $10 billion - Fortune Tech
BingoBoingo: 11 Months ago I was the only person willing to bet 1 BTC agaisnt Micon on NCAA tournament brackets
BingoBoingo: That was a stupid decision/
ThickAsThieves: "Two separate sources have told me that's how much Google (GOOG) offered to purchase WhatsApp. The bid did not come with promise of a board seat, unlike the Facebook agreement."
ThickAsThieves: his mom and his cat
ThickAsThieves: her*
ThickAsThieves: "Jessi Hempel is a New York-based technology writer for Fortune. She has written extensively about digital media, online advertising and social networking. "
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves right, two sources have told nobody in particular that things diversely may have been etc.
BingoBoingo: Maybe this is crazy, but a Google board seat is worth more than Facebook board seats
Bugpowder: This guy seems to have a better idea for what is going on with WhatsApp. http://ben-evans.com/benedictevans/2014/1/30/interaction-canvases-and-ecosystems
ThickAsThieves: as in it's more costly for Google to have one more idiot in the ranks than not
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: hey guise, have you heard about jpm rebranding ?
ThickAsThieves: only that you mentioned it
mircea_popescu: they're gonna be PopCorn
mircea_popescu: "just turn the heat on and they jump"
ThickAsThieves: "An airy delight!"
mircea_popescu: "I can't believe it's not CDOs"
nicknode: lol
ThickAsThieves: "Buttered up and consumed!"
mircea_popescu: "Once you swap, you can't stop"
BingoBoingo: JPM has exactly one way to rebrand http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/01/23/a-wow-comment-analysis-fest/#fn4-586
ThickAsThieves: "See if you catch one in the mouth!"
nicknode: any news out of asicminer?
mircea_popescu: da fuck is fn4-586
mircea_popescu: nicknode yeah they were bought out by facebook
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: A footnote.
mircea_popescu: 19bn.
mircea_popescu: a cool.
nicknode: nice, well then this was a good morning then lol
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: The footnote I point at fiat olds and BTC newbs
mircea_popescu: aha
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Even Pirates had their black flags which were the sign they were willing to offer quarter.
BingoBoingo: I have no use for the red flag and denial of quarter from reality.
mircea_popescu: fun fact : a roger was shakespeare era term for beggars with pretense of learning.
mircea_popescu: sort-of like forumites, basically.
ThickAsThieves: wife: "Facebook bought WhatsApp for $19b? Suckers, they could've downloaded it for free."
BingoBoingo: A true Ver. There is a population in the US that has an 18 to 36 month window to hedge their existence.
davout: ThickAsThieves: lol
BingoBoingo: Also, "Roger" was a shakespeare era term necessitated by the mere decades of seamanship the english would have to pass the dutch by at that time.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves maybe they planned to use it for more than a year.
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Facebook wanted the people who couldn't afford facebook
ThickAsThieves: prediction: facebook starts buying dating sites
mircea_popescu: nah
ThickAsThieves: ancestry.com then?
BingoBoingo: I though t facebooks revenues came from people not getting laid
mircea_popescu: wasn't matt's gf all ranty against dating sites ?
ThickAsThieves: why these make too much sense?
mircea_popescu: "o snapchat allows teens to fuck all day long i don't care" ?
nicknode: not that much value in not getting laid
ThickAsThieves: who's matt anyway?
ThickAsThieves: mark?
mircea_popescu: nicknode in general the average male would prefer to not get laid and be bossed around than to get laid and have to boss the women around.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves whoever hoodie-whats-his-face. zuckerberg
ThickAsThieves: word
ThickAsThieves: bigtime silicon valley ceo's have very small wardrobes
davout: ThickAsThieves: yay, i can be a big time silicon valley ceo
ThickAsThieves: you may choose black turtleneck, tshirt, hoodie, sneakers or 3-piece suit less tie and top button
mircea_popescu: no because nigeria
davout: mircea_popescu: lol fuck you
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves if i were the [ex] yahoo ceo i'd show up for work in a black and white apron
ThickAsThieves: cuz ur colorblind?
BingoBoingo: I am still wrapping my head around Seals was full last year, but it was still just me versus Micon in March Madness
davout: no cause his place is dirty
mircea_popescu: CAUSE I WOULD BE A WOMAN
ThickAsThieves: you mean that blonde chick?
ThickAsThieves: she got fired?
mircea_popescu: well im covering my bets.
mircea_popescu: maybe she was meanwhile who;s to know
ThickAsThieves: the world conspires with you
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Hitting mircea for his general ly compromised sight would be like criticizing me for my hearing.
mircea_popescu: someone should make a line of business go-go suits and shear body stockings for women in the boardroom
ThickAsThieves: i dunno, being colorblind cant be that bad
BingoBoingo: I dunno how it can't be. I mean in the pussy you get to see the actual pink.
ThickAsThieves: i have constant tinnitus and i'm ok
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo dude, my sight is fine. i can shoot sparrows half mile away. it's just i don't see most useless colors.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: You let the color blind thing out a while ago but the half inch text very recently. We needed to force the answer.
mircea_popescu: the text thing is for confort tho.
ThickAsThieves: i assume half-inch is an exaggeration
davout: that's what she said
ThickAsThieves waits for a "that's what she said"...
ThickAsThieves: dangit!
davout: lmao
mircea_popescu: i can read most stuff people need loupes for with my naked eyes, but that doesn't mean i want to
mircea_popescu: on any sort of continued basis
BingoBoingo: Understandable mircea_popescu. I can barely stand test less dense than 8 pts offers on a screen (unless it is a spectaculary fail screen).
MisterE: when are we gonna test 500 already?!?!
MisterE: been waiting for days
BingoBoingo: MisterE: August?
ThickAsThieves: i'll tell you for 5btc
MisterE: this stability pisses me off
mircea_popescu: why ?!
MisterE: lol I like the swings
ThickAsThieves: cuz gemz
BingoBoingo: MisterE: I can sell you instability for the right price.
MisterE: like craps I guess you try to catch the streaks
MisterE: play a conservative game
MisterE: only pass/ don;t pass bets
BingoBoingo: MisterE: Conservative Game? Are you Rumsfeld in Fallujah?
MisterE: the place the taliban just took back?
MisterE: well not just
BingoBoingo: MisterE: Wrong brown people.
ThickAsThieves: MisterE, $500 will be tested in approx 7 days
BingoBoingo: Oh, I though this was MPEX 0.1 lots
BingoBoingo: $500/BTC has been whipped for quite a while
ThickAsThieves: whipped?
nicknode: ThickAsThieves: what is the relationship between you and havelock? i was under the impression you were more or less the same entity, but apparently not? trying to understand the TaT,havelock,asicminer thinigie posted about in the last day
MisterE: naah 500 is only a NY regulator's announcement away
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Yeah, like an antiquated piece of farm equiptment that can't even imagine challenging a tractor.
MisterE: wtf is up with Cox anywyas?
MisterE: Iwas away for a couple days
BingoBoingo: nicknode: ThickAsThieves is someone Havelock was fucking.
BingoBoingo: Nao ThickAsThieves has a spine
BingoBoingo: And he dun like to get fucked
ThickAsThieves: lol
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19612 @ 0.00086128 = 16.8914 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: that doesnt even work in the abstract
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Some things work better in the real than the abstract.
ThickAsThieves: nicknode, why would you think we're all the same thing?
mircea_popescu: <nicknode> ThickAsThieves: what is the relationship between you and havelock? i was under the impression you were more or less the same entity, but apparently not? <<< see ? this is what you did. now pay for it.
nicknode: tarded lack of research, first impressions blah blag
ThickAsThieves: so research
nicknode: anyway, i kind of thought you were the guy operating havelock. apparently not. but what does the latest news mean?
ThickAsThieves: there's the plain above you, there's the parachute below you
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Be afraid. This is moar research than most of your PT investors do.
ThickAsThieves: plane*
ThickAsThieves: derp
KRS-One: nicknode: you thought TaT was Havelock? wow
ThickAsThieves: that's a first
mircea_popescu: not afaik, no.
nicknode: well yeah. anyway, care to enlighten me as to the latest developments?
ThickAsThieves: still not as bad as emails i get asking me how to buy AM100
ThickAsThieves: what more is needed to know than what was announced?
mircea_popescu: "First they came for the lawyers, and I didn't say anything because I am not a lawyer. Now everything is awesome."
nicknode: well since my confusion runs pretty thick with regards to the involved entities, i dont get what it means
ThickAsThieves: man you need to articulate
ThickAsThieves: i know you can do it
nicknode: you make a great impression
ThickAsThieves: it means Havelock is running the listed things I will used to have run
nicknode: ahh, confusion clearing slightly
BingoBoingo: Remember when Havelock ran only an S.DICE passthrough
ThickAsThieves: did you read all the words in the announcement?
BingoBoingo: Those days were the best lols
ThickAsThieves: mp, what's that lawyer quote from/for?
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Oh, it is just standard hebe talk
nicknode: it makes more sense now that I'm disabused for some preconceived notions yes. thank you :)
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves some twitter guy. you care who ?
ThickAsThieves: i found it, i just cant suss the context
ThickAsThieves: or meaning...
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo yeah, i remember. those were the days when investors didn't lose btc weekly.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Well it was that shot period between GLBSE's death and the emergence of the lessers.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves you know the "first they came for the tits, but i said nothing because i wasn't a tit, then they came for the cunt, but i said nothing for i wasn;'t a cunt, now i got nowhere to jack off" thing ?
ThickAsThieves: nope
mircea_popescu: jesus.
BingoBoingo: I remember the days when havelock was just TAT on steroids
mircea_popescu: what sort of a jew are you.
ThickAsThieves: dont call me that it's embarassing
ThickAsThieves: a catholic one
mircea_popescu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...
ozbot: First they came ... - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
BingoBoingo: Sweet, funnel cloud!!! How long will I have internet!!!
ThickAsThieves: i wish i was raised jewish, christ
mircea_popescu: sooo.... facebook being cut to ew and neutral across the board.
BingoBoingo: I love tornado weather
MisterE: where do I get the btc-e api key and secret?
random_cat: it's better served cold, bingoboingo
MisterE: oic profile
ThickAsThieves: shoulda bought okcupid
ThickAsThieves: hey i like this first they came thing and now i get it, thx
BingoBoingo: random_cat: Fuku, Imma be wearing this welt for a week nao.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves i'm shocked you never heard it before. it's really a meme.
BingoBoingo: Like a really old meme
BingoBoingo: Like I am trying to figure out if this is merely impact swelling or floating detached bone
ThickAsThieves: imagine what else i don't know
ThickAsThieves: :)
BingoBoingo: For serious so many ice bitches on my lawn.
ThickAsThieves: http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-price-hits-135-mt-gox-office-move-verification-demand/
ThickAsThieves: must be verified to wd coins too now
nicknode: wow
ThickAsThieves: oh today is the lawsky AMA
ThickAsThieves: the fun shall continue
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 60 @ 0.07101394 = 4.2608 BTC [+] {11}
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: When, doesn't look like I'm sleeping
ThickAsThieves: 3.5hrs
ThickAsThieves: time for nap if you try
Glotarolt: hello guys
ThickAsThieves: hi
Glotarolt: who want to sell LTC?
ThickAsThieves: wrong chan
Glotarolt: is this right chanel?
BingoBoingo: Glotarolt: I will sell you 5 LTC at 3 BTC per LTC
Glotarolt: [14:51] <usaoscoin> it unfolded on #bitcoin-assets
Glotarolt: this guy give me this chanel to ask
ThickAsThieves: dunno what to tell ya
Glotarolt: i need big amount like 2-3k LTC
ThickAsThieves: yknow they have exchanges for hat
ThickAsThieves: that*
Glotarolt: NAhhh
Glotarolt: i just have much problem
ThickAsThieves: too hard to scam that wau?
ThickAsThieves: way*
Glotarolt: and i have now my btc
Glotarolt: long story
ThickAsThieves: i bet
Glotarolt: i want to kill someone
CheckDavid: Ba hahahahahaa
ThickAsThieves: kill urself?
random_cat: gravity works
Glotarolt: think kill myself?
Glotarolt: NO
ThickAsThieves: oh my mistake
CheckDavid: Glotarolt: I will kill ThickAsThieves for 2 coins.
ThickAsThieves: i figured you were the most convenient victim
Glotarolt: want to kill some Admin
CheckDavid: I'm a professional hitman
Glotarolt: Hahahaha
CheckDavid: World class assassination services
Glotarolt: i just cross here to ask for bloody LTC
Glotarolt: :)
ThickAsThieves: try #altcoin
Glotarolt: think?
BingoBoingo: Glotarolt: If you keep talking like this you might discover just how finite your existence is.
random_cat: i am a professional BOFH
CheckDavid: Easier to scam Ltc than BTC?
Glotarolt: ?
ThickAsThieves: will you pay a 10% premium on market price for the LTCs?
davout: Glotarolt why don't you start your own exchange
Glotarolt: i start soon
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. (http://dpaste.com/1642144/plain/)
davout: !b 2
Glotarolt: wait to Gox crash
Glotarolt: :)
Mallstromm: https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FwnuQWZg.jpg&t=537&c=7viZmSe90xbWQQ
davout: Mallstromm: is that a police complaint?
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 450 @ 0.00213003 = 0.9585 BTC [-]
Mallstromm: that's Warsaw's anticorruption division investigating MtGox Poland
Mallstromm: :D
davout: Mallstromm: i think mtgox's polish bank has more to lose in such an investigation than mtgox itself
davout: because they'll be found to have covered it all up
Mallstromm: davout: that would (partially) explain the absurd 100k x day limit on outgoing transactions?
davout: Mallstromm: i think that the limit is bullshit
Mallstromm: I agree. There's no way you have such limits.
davout: our bank already did bigger wires than that, for *one* wire
davout: you know, not for all the days wire
Mallstromm: And if you have them, you just increase those limits depending on your volume
BingoBoingo: davout: Is there a good way to get fucktons of USD into yout exchange?
Mallstromm: davout: I know and I agree. If you have the money, you can move it. That's how it works and how banks make their money.
davout: BingoBoingo: first question is "can you register?"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 25 @ 0.16230094 = 4.0575 BTC [-]
davout: BingoBoingo: you're murrican right
davout: if so then you can't
BingoBoingo: davout: I dunno.
Glotarolt: He is IDIOT
davout: Mallstromm: exactly, they charge you, that's all
Mallstromm: yeah, being 'murrican kinda sucks. Such freedom, such wealth, such ass-rape :D
davout: wow
Mallstromm: Such NSA. Such guantanamo. Such ban on 'murricans on all BTC exchanges :D
Mallstromm: its really the land of the free
davout: Mallstromm: no, only a couple actually
BingoBoingo: davout: With lead time if necessary I can be dutch.
Mallstromm: davout: anyone willing to run a SERIOUS exchange will probably have to ban most american customers unless they can get MSB license in ALL States. That's kinda unpractical
davout: BingoBoingo: LOL
davout: Mallstromm: that makes no sense, the concept of a MSB exists only in the US, for the purpose of doing business with americans
BingoBoingo: davout: It's true though from my understanding of EU law and ancestery.
davout: BingoBoingo: even i couldn't get dual dutch citizenship
random_cat: south carolina does not require a msb
davout: and i'm fucking born there :)
Mallstromm: davout: there's need to be a dual-citizenship treaty for that and not many countries have such treaties
Mallstromm: davout: the fact is that if you ban 'murricans you avoid a lot of hassle
equex: usa demands you give up one
davout: Mallstromm: france and the netherlands had this retarded kid
davout: and called it belgium
equex: the us one
BingoBoingo: davout: I guess either I won the grandpa lottery or the civil service there is too fucked to follow the law.
Mallstromm: davoutMallstromm: france and the netherlands had this retarded kid -> THAT MADE ME LOL :D
BingoBoingo: davout: All the better. My ancestors are Flemish
Bugpowder: Mallstromm: Why is an MSB license impractical. You are thinking that MtGox level dipshites are going to be running the serious exchanges from now on? Major VC money is moving into the space, and US people will have liquidity access within their brokerage account by EOY.
davout: Bugpowder: what exactly do you call major VC money?
davout: coinbase's 25m?
ThickAsThieves: ;;ticker --market mtgox
Mallstromm: I don't see major VC money
Mallstromm: I see peanuts
Bugpowder: that's just a start
Mallstromm: a few VC's gambling with play money
Mallstromm: that's all
kakobrekla: >15:35 A new protester has joined and is not happy.
kakobrekla: omg this is hilarious
Bugpowder: just keep thinking like the 2012-2013 paradigm will persist this year and next...
davout: Bugpowder: what's the 2012-2013 paradigm?
ThickAsThieves: that bitcoin is a nerdfadponziscam
Bugpowder: Shitty companies, shitty liquidity and nobody paying attention.
BingoBoingo: VC's gambling sounds right.
Bugpowder: That's what VCs do
ThickAsThieves: bug, what's your outlook for next ATH?
Bugpowder: $4000
Bugpowder: next to
ThickAsThieves: timewise
Bugpowder: top
Bugpowder: EOY
Bugpowder: but that's just based on growth curves
BingoBoingo: If Goldman or JP Morgan wants to get in this sector I am their hebe.
ThickAsThieves: i had $3400 in July
Bugpowder: could be that soon
davout: i think end 2014 be like end 2014, beginning of the next bubble
davout: end 2012
davout: dammit
davout: bottom this spring
BingoBoingo: end of 2012 was a low.
ThickAsThieves: well if all the traders with money agree, it will be so!
Bugpowder: We have seen the same pattern 3-4 times now
davout: yeah, which means it started going back up from there :-)
ThickAsThieves: i think bottom is this month actually
davout: ThickAsThieves:
davout: no
davout: dun think so
AndrewWhatsUpppp: expecting 111
ThickAsThieves: no, davout?
Bugpowder: we are going to need mainstream buy-in to support the next price level.
davout: ThickAsThieves: i remember when we hit $2 after seeing $32
Bugpowder: people like hblodget need to get their head out of their ass and buy some coins.
Bugpowder: davout: That's when I entered. Wired the money the day it hit $2.
gribble: MtGox BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 134.4, Best ask: 134.49, Bid-ask spread: 0.09000, Last trade: 134.49, 24 hour volume: 75018.53888080, 24 hour low: 132.13, 24 hour high: 276.24152, 24 hour vwap: 189.9134
Bugpowder: I wonder what the price will be when Krugman capitulates.
BingoBoingo: I regret not buying at those 2 dollars.
ThickAsThieves: latest gribble response ever?
davout: glorious days
Bugpowder: I'll define major VC money to == enough money so that becoming an MSB in all 50 states is no big deal for multiple competing liquidity providers.
ThickAsThieves: i still think we have til ides of March at best to buy at bottom, got chart that sensibly disagrees?
KRS-One: Ahh the ides of March. That is when we move.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.47799999 = 2.39 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: Mallstromm sooo... who are you ?
Mallstromm: mircea_popescu: an ex-securitate agent now looking into illicit business
BingoBoingo: Mallstromm: You ever have a clearance?
mircea_popescu: how clever.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25900 @ 0.00086282 = 22.347 BTC [+] {2}
Mallstromm: :D
mircea_popescu: so typical twennysomething boi with too much too prove ?
BingoBoingo: Mallstromm: Are you elligible for the TS/SCI job fairs?
Mallstromm: mircea_popescu: unfortunately not so young
mircea_popescu: well time cures all.
Mallstromm: BingoBoingo: of course, my background is perfect to grant me a position in any three letter agency
BingoBoingo: Mallstromm: Congrats. I passed that chance up and my brain grew into a need for lamotrigine.
Mallstromm: now just cooperating with SELEC (http://www.secicenter.org/)
mircea_popescu: lmao why's the casa poporului there
BingoBoingo: lol
mircea_popescu: "BRUSSELS, January 21st, 2014", here's a picture of some building from romania.
Mallstromm: :D
Mallstromm: SELEC is run by the FBI (no joke). You know how amateurish these 'murricans guys are
mircea_popescu: http://www.secicenter.org/m271/Careers cute.
ozbot: SELEC Web Site
Mallstromm: well, you get paid in USD. :)
BingoBoingo: Mallstromm: Who does?
Mallstromm: Selec workers
mircea_popescu: o this is the seci thing
mircea_popescu: jesus what's with the constant rebranding.
Mallstromm: yes, its the SECI thing
Mallstromm: SECI is the old naming, SELEC is the new one
mircea_popescu: did it step in some paintcan or something ?
Mallstromm: still the official proxy of US three-letter-agencies in Eastern Europe
mircea_popescu: well cool.
Mallstromm: well, now we can stop joking :) sorry to interrupt you guys... But you was the one asking, Mircea
mircea_popescu: so wait, you aren't an ex securitate agent with a job in teh ex seci now secl?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 182 @ 0.00085499 = 0.1556 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: cointerra delivers http://imgur.com/a/4W2ik
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.50999996 BTC [+]
Mallstromm: empty boxes?
ThickAsThieves: mtgoxes
mircea_popescu: hahaha
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 17 @ 0.07299999 = 1.241 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: haven't i seen those three fan things before ?
mircea_popescu: Created 15 hours ago 5 views << wow.
mircea_popescu: nobody cares, srsly ?
BingoBoingo: Shit
ThickAsThieves: i only found it incidentally
ThickAsThieves: Korbman posted it
BingoBoingo: ;;tslb
gribble: Time since last block: 20 minutes and 45 seconds
ThickAsThieves: ;;estimate
gribble: Next difficulty estimate | 3786669022.0 based on data since last change | 3995924804.52 based on data for last three days
ThickAsThieves: ;;bcstats
gribble: Current Blocks: 286894 | Current Difficulty: 3.1295731745222874E9 | Next Difficulty At Block: 288287 | Next Difficulty In: 1393 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 19 hours, 49 minutes, and 12 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 3786669022.0 | Estimated Percent Change: 20.99634
BingoBoingo: I have such a solid knot on my forehead. Fuck hail
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54550 @ 0.0008639 = 47.1257 BTC [+] {2}
ThickAsThieves: ouch
ThickAsThieves: maybe you are becoming a full bronie
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: I still have like two drinks left in this fifth.
ThickAsThieves: i know i said it already, but i fukn love this fever-tree ginger beer as a mixer
ThickAsThieves: makes your lips burn with joy
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Right nao I'm doing 50/50 instant coffee and vodka
Mallstromm: ThichkAsThieves: wonderful. Did you try the moscow mule with it? Fever-tree ginger beet + lime + vodka
ThickAsThieves: i add grapefruit juice too
Mallstromm: I prefer the original "moscow mule" with only vodka and some drops of natural lime juice
Mallstromm: grapefruit juice is too 'murrican for my taste :D
BingoBoingo: Grapefruit is healthy except for that part where it inhibits all of the good liver enzymes.
ThickAsThieves: hehe, too grapefruity for most people's taste i bet
ThickAsThieves: my wife thinks i prefer the most gross stuff
ThickAsThieves: hops, ginger, etc
BingoBoingo: Grapefruit tastes good enough.
mircea_popescu: tampons ?
BingoBoingo: Grapre fruit just leaves you vulerable to every poison ever.
Mallstromm: ThickAsThieves: i hope she's just speaking about food/beverages and not other kind of philias
ThickAsThieves: so it gets you higher, big deal
ThickAsThieves: :)
ThickAsThieves: well i do also like twister japanese horror
ThickAsThieves: twisted*
asciilifeform: from the circus: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2562647/NSA-worker-beat-3-year-old-adopted-son-death-tells-police-hadnt-bonded-boy.html
kakobrekla: wait, instant coffee and vodka in same cup??
kakobrekla: i think id rather drink petrol
BingoBoingo: kakobrekla: Yeah, for justice
ThickAsThieves: probly taste similar
Mallstromm: kakobrekla: i hope he was joking, that's beyong gross
mircea_popescu: <kakobrekla> i think id rather drink petrol << in moscow they do.
kakobrekla: i dunno, he does have balls.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know what daily mail is right ?
mircea_popescu: sort-of like business insider with better creative writing.
kakobrekla: mircea_popescu and survive?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: of course.
mircea_popescu: sure. they're survival champs.
asciilifeform: i can't wait for the tabloids to 'nsa ufos!1!!'
Mallstromm: well, if they survive winter in Novosibirsk they can survive anything
kakobrekla: here, bomb.
Mallstromm: in fact i wouldn't know how to survive a winter in Novosibirsk without drinking petrol
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so is the guy in custody ?
BingoBoingo: Fuck UFO's. Shit s boring. Fucking clouds attacked me today.
asciilifeform: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/damascus-man-charged-with-killing-his-three-year-old-adopted-son/2014/02/18/4cc02e2a-98a4-11e3-9616-d367fa6ea99b_story.html
ozbot: Damascus man charged in death his 3-year-old adopted son - The Washington Post
asciilifeform: possibly.
mircea_popescu: "he is being held without bond."
mircea_popescu: they just added that lol.
mircea_popescu: no capital or anything.
asciilifeform: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/college-park-shady-grove-campuses-affected-by-university-of-maryland-security-breach/2014/02/19/ce438108-99bd-11e3-80ac-63a8ba7f7942_story.html
ozbot: University of Maryland computer security breach exposes 300,000 records - The Washington Post
asciilifeform: haha and there's the tortoise
BingoBoingo: Fucking terps
BingoBoingo: Herp Turp
asciilifeform: notice the dirt?
asciilifeform: it's from the 'sacrifices.'
BingoBoingo: So... concussion first aid. Is sleep good or bad?
BingoBoingo: If the patient is plastered.
mircea_popescu: it's fine.
BingoBoingo: Fuck spinny ice wind thingies.
asciilifeform: http://umd.edu/datasecurity/
ozbot: The University of Maryland :: A Public Research University Advancing our State and the World
asciilifeform: (mtgox style turdletter)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 25 @ 0.06300337 = 1.5751 BTC [-] {4}
Mallstromm: LOOOOL Mircea, what about that picture on your Twitter account? The one in which you are wearing an open shirt, showing to the world your beautiful chest?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Universities have done worse. When I was at Mizzou their research reactor had a security breach.
Mallstromm: :D
Mallstromm: https://twitter.com/Mircea_Popescu
ozbot: Mircea Popescu (Mircea_Popescu) on Twitter
Mallstromm: its hilarious man
mircea_popescu: hallo yes i am mircea popescu.
mircea_popescu: wtf.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Largest research reactor in the US
BingoBoingo: Mallstromm: WHat is wrong with a dude showing some chest if he gets the pussy?
Mallstromm: "if he gets the pussy"
Mallstromm: :D
mircea_popescu: srsly, topless guys are a big deal nao ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Maybe he doesn't ask or tell?
mircea_popescu: i fucking live in this world where women go about nude in teh park. i guess it'd be an ivory... tower ?
Mallstromm: well, you know, in some parts of the world taking a walk in the center of a city in top-less is quite awkward
mircea_popescu: in and of itself, awkward ?
mircea_popescu: some stupid bitch could be awkward at it, sure.
Mallstromm: :D
BingoBoingo: Mallstromm: You don't look like Mark Karpales do you?
mircea_popescu: the point of training is that she's not awkward.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1203 @ 0.00019706 = 0.2371 BTC [-] {5}
asciilifeform: re: nsa chief: i wonder if the prosecutor knows that prosecutors 'could also have problems'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i'll bet yo uthat particular prosecutor does not care.
asciilifeform: that's more or less the whole interesting part of the picture.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Interesting is Mizzou reactor breach merely needed a cab and not a prosecutor.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: ?
BingoBoingo: So... I am fairly certain that in this channel I have made comments that limit the set of people who could be me to 1. But Meta-NSA is a myth.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: worry after i'm impaled.
BingoBoingo: Fucking storm raid sirens again.
mircea_popescu: should we start a deadpool ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I'm just surprised the bore of an M16 is so small like a ruger plinking rifle.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: not like this is a national secret
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: in most of the u.s. you can walk into a store and buy the damn thing and try it for yourself
asciilifeform: what's funny is that the ussr slavishly copied the 'tiny bullet' school of thought in '74
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: No, but... At least the Moissin-Nagant through the M-14 had the virtue of not being bored in squirrel caliber.
asciilifeform: they taught soldiers marksmanship in those days
BingoBoingo: And engagement at distance.
asciilifeform: the modern school of thought, i believe, is 'wound, don't kill, the enemy and tie up three men'
asciilifeform: (actual experts are invited to comment)
mircea_popescu: at least in guerilla warfare, definitely.
BingoBoingo: I'd believe that.
Mats_cd03: 556 is godly
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you ever read the old trilema article re the la bank robbers ?
BingoBoingo: Wierdest thing I've known is the Yugo SKS. Soviet bullet, Nato grenade launcher
Mats_cd03: twice the combat load due yo half the weight of a 763 round
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the one with the armour?
Mats_cd03: 762 dat is
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the one observing that their strategy was correct, in that the pensions and hi of the cops they shot make it unworthwhile for the cops to show up next time.
mircea_popescu: (yeah, same one).
asciilifeform: they showed up on account of being biorobots.
mircea_popescu: they still cost the taxpayer.
asciilifeform: ('meat puppets' in the english-speaking world?)
CiPi: Apple has startet again to accept bitcoin apps, alot of markets accepting bitcoin...ATM`s open is USA with btc...why the price is not rising and is falling?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: The right armour beats the wrong bullets?
BingoBoingo: Like in North Hollywood?
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2011/strategii-in-lupta-antisociala/
ozbot: Strategii in lupta antisociala pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: Strategia corecta, in sensul ca perfecta, este sa mergi si sa jefuiesti banca. Daca nu apare politia, foarte bine, mergi in treaba ta. Daca insa apare politia, macelaresti civilii. Si anume, pe toti. Fara ezitari, fara mila, cu toata atentia pentru optimizarea carnajului in sensul extensiunii. Doua-trei sute de persoane minim, intr-o zona cit de cit centrala (ca doara nu jefuiesti banci la periferie acuma).
mircea_popescu: Sigur, dupa aia cel mai probabil vei muri. Ei, si ? Conteaza mai putin asta, daca te gindesti ca a) de murit oricum mori si respectiv b) odata ce politistii stiu ca daca vin vor muri sute de civili iar daca stau acasa nu va muri nimeni ei nu mai au de fapt o alegere la dispozitie. Pur si simplu, nu le va da nimeni voie sa se apropie de locul jafului, ca trei sute de morti ori doua milioane bucata pe asigurari vine juma
mircea_popescu: ’ de miliard, iara tu nu poti fura mai mult de citeva milioane in cash, dat fiind ca n-ai cum ii duce. De fapt exact asa s-a ajuns si la regula ca-ti da bancherul oriciti bani si te lasa sa pleci, singura victorie a oamenilor antisociali in raport cu societatea din istoria moderna.
Mats_cd03: what was that about pastebin
mircea_popescu: the correct strategy, which is to say the perfect strategy, is to go rob a bank. if no police shows up, good. if they do, butcher the civillians. which is to say, all ofthem. no mercy, no hesitation, optimize the carnage as to extension.
mircea_popescu: of course, you will likely die for it. so what ? hardly worth the menton this, if you think that a) you'll die anyway and b) once the police admin knows that sending the police means hundreds dead or wounded and if not sending the police means nothing they no longer have a choice.
mircea_popescu: pure and simple, they won't be even allowed to come near a place where someone's robbing a bank. because 300 hit at 3mn a piece is a billion, and nobody can afford to waste a billion to cover for whatever coupla million in bills you can possibly carry.
mircea_popescu: that's basically the principle there, works in all confrontations exactly the same.
BingoBoingo: Oh, robbing banks, the only way to do it wrong has to be carrying a sadwich, taking the money and walking briskly.
mircea_popescu: simple matter of cost optimisation, the well known weakness of the weak.
mircea_popescu: he who values his life has no future.
BingoBoingo: Funny story. After my allegedly disorderly conduct and old acquaintance from way back tried robbing a bank with a sandwhich.
mircea_popescu: Mats_cd03 3 lines man, cmon.
BingoBoingo: His bank robbery case is resolved, my disroderly conduct misdemeanor is still pending
BingoBoingo: On those mispelling it seems like bedtime.
mircea_popescu: obviously they wanted his sandwich
BingoBoingo: Of course.
BingoBoingo: As luck would have it for him he went into lockup as I fronted the local paper. He told the people in his pad "I know that dude"
BingoBoingo: No one messed with him, that he will talk about when he isn't hammered enough to bring out the trauma.
BingoBoingo: If only newspapers respected the sacred bounds of the word allegedly.
BingoBoingo: Done right, that could have been a bigger 1-2 social media coup than Y-Combinator could have imagined.
BingoBoingo: I only have to assume Paul Graham doesn't know how to pay me.
mircea_popescu: you got a graham fixation or somfin' ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.07299999 = 0.219 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Nah, but he makes it clear he is the money slut. I just turned 28. Going off of the lifespoans of most of my close relatives I've only got 22 years left at most.
BingoBoingo: I'm not giving up, so he is going to have to learn to pay the piper.
mircea_popescu: guy is what, 60 ? give him a break.
mircea_popescu: you're like some chick indignant that rms won't wash for her.
mircea_popescu: "but i'm 28! and my tits are really nice!!1"
BingoBoingo: lol, fair enough. Maybe it is 'Murica, but in my ancestry lives past 50 years of age seem to be... rather uncommon.
BingoBoingo: I'll be back. Imma try to sleep while the storm raid sirens are STFU.
pankkake: perhaps they didn't eat paleo
nubbins`: hi
mircea_popescu: hey
mike_c: BingoBoingo: last sale was to me, so you don't have *all* the orders on x-bt :)
Mallstromm: Withdrawals not working on Bitstamp
Mallstromm: http://www.dumpt.com/img/viewer.php?file=c5n76shw9wspczpdmnge.jpg
Mallstromm: sweet stuff
Mallstromm: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=476614.0
ozbot: Anyone else got bitstamp btc withdrawal problems?
mike_c: what an infuriating error message
kakobrekla: no dude
kakobrekla: "Bitstamp. How an exchange should be run. "
kakobrekla: DONT YA KNOW?!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07002301 = 0.14 BTC [-]
mike_c: best in the business. it's like being the best spammer or something.
kakobrekla: lel
nubbins`: ** ATTENTION ** As per our terms of service, we only service Canadian Citizens. If you deposit BTC, you will **NOT** be able to withdraw them until you are level 1 Verified or higher. Failure to get level 1 verified or higher will result in the **FORFEITURE OF YOUR COINS**!!!
nubbins`: ^ cavirtex
nubbins`: as a canadian citizen, i eagerly await my servicing
nubbins`: my body is ready
Bugpowder: This is probably the first time Mark K has bitten off more than he could chew.
mircea_popescu: wait, forfeiture of coins ?
mircea_popescu: you mean people don't have the god given right to send bitcoin to any address for any purpose they themselves established ?
kakobrekla: he did that the first time he installed bitcoind Bugpowder
nubbins`: oh, they have the right
nubbins`: they just don't have the right to get their coins returned to them
Bugpowder: <cough> Incoming Bitcoin that doesn't exactly match a quoted sum will be simply kept, reported as profits and distributed to MPEx shareholders.
kakobrekla: yeah but we all know he is just crazy.
mjr_: hi all
nubbins`: hi
mjr_: whats new in the world?
nubbins`: trying to build eulora, gonna grind up some beef soon
Apocalyptic: .d
ozbot: 3129573174.52229 | Next Diff in 1383 blocks | Estimated Change: 19.8444% in 7d 16h 45m 14s
mjr_: nice
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 8 @ 0.16230094 = 1.2984 BTC [-]
mjr_: ah...gox is getting to be pretty annoying
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7100 @ 0.00086638 = 6.1513 BTC [+]
dexX7_: woah x_X my test withdrawal from kraken to fidor bank via sepa did not even take one hour
nubbins`: :o
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.0645 = 0.129 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: nubbins` a yes lemme know
mircea_popescu: dexX7_ wd.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 1.90663431 BTC to 2`373 shares, 80347 satoshi per share
mircea_popescu: sepa is normally like that. provided, you know, the exchange actually sends it.
davout: hey mjr_
mjr_: what up
jurov: depends, sepa can arrive next day
mjr_: how are you doing?
AndrewWhatsUpppp: sepa is a month+ last i heard
ThickAsThieves: Spanish banking group BBVA acquires Simple for $117 million in cash
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.16230094 = 0.8115 BTC [-]
jurov: AndrewWhatsUpppp that's mtgox exclusive feature
AndrewWhatsUpppp: haha
AndrewWhatsUpppp: true. realSEPA (lol) is 1-2 business days yes
mircea_popescu: AndrewWhatsUpppp congratulations on being bought out for 190 billion.
AndrewWhatsUpppp: especially if your whole country has adopted the IBAN standard
TwinWinNerD: If the bank actually sends out the SEPA it is there within hours. But banking...
ThickAsThieves: http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2014/02/20/doug-kass-doubles-down-on-tesla-short/
ozbot: Doug Kass Doubles Down on Tesla Short - MoneyBeat - WSJ
mircea_popescu: that's not going to end well.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 500 @ 0.0004458 = 0.2229 BTC [+] {4}
Bugpowder: Trading 101 - How to dollar-cost average a short: Don’t.
mircea_popescu: at least he's a qualified investor.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.063 = 0.315 BTC [-] {2}
mike_c: dollar-cost average is my second favorite "finance" term after head-and-shoulders.
mircea_popescu: i always wonder why it's not tit and elbow.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 363 @ 0.0055 = 1.9965 BTC
nubbins`: mircea_popescu: not too crucial, but i don't think the new src actually does come with instructions
mircea_popescu: what's missing ?
nubbins`: instructions :D
mircea_popescu: you're not helping me :p
nubbins`: haha.
nubbins`: your post mentioned something about the source including instructions for building the client
mircea_popescu: well yes.
mircea_popescu: jamfiles etc
nubbins`: ah, aha. yes, sure
nubbins`: i suppose that's a form of instruction
nubbins`: i was searching for a README or something
mircea_popescu: but you know, i dunno what you want/need unless you say
mircea_popescu: o
nubbins`: altho TBF if you can't figure out how to use jam, instructions are going to be of minimal help
mircea_popescu: theres an automake or somesuch script i think
nubbins`: nod
nubbins`: ran into the same issues as before, likely related to apple's bundling their own fork of LLVM
mircea_popescu: as in it won't make or won't compile at all ?
ThickAsThieves: lawsky AMA open for questions http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1ygcil/as_requested_im_ben_lawsky_superintendent_of_the/
nubbins`: lots of compile errors. i think i'm gonna try to install it via macports
nubbins`: need to do some more reading but IIRC macports lets you specify one of many versions of gcc
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 10 @ 0.16230094 = 1.623 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bg7rS1gIEAA9jB6.jpg:large
ThickAsThieves: is that a fingerprint scanner on his kb?
ThickAsThieves: what shitty desk setup
ThickAsThieves: where do his legs go
mircea_popescu: why the fuck does he have a gamebox
mircea_popescu: or wtf lame console i don't even know is that ?
ThickAsThieves: supernintendo lawsky meme
ThickAsThieves: he's into it
mircea_popescu: jesus.
mircea_popescu: desk too low, that thing actually looks like he's moved into his master's house as a junior slavegirl and they didn't have a spare room so he got the closet.
mircea_popescu: at least he got a blue shirt so should be ok.
mircea_popescu: that's finance, right ?
nubbins`: confirmed, his knees don't go under that keyboard tray
ThickAsThieves: blue shirt red tie, horrible
nubbins`: his back must hurt all the time
ThickAsThieves: and look how low his monitors are
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves it's a power tie. it's what real high power business execs do.
ThickAsThieves: hunch all day
mircea_popescu: if it's 2006.
mircea_popescu: i don't get these people with the top of monitor alligned to nostril arrangements.
ThickAsThieves: we're so lame
nubbins`: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-95jJQwpsuhk/TxAqf84m62I/AAAAAAAABtI/xoZX_-7nANo/s1600/-9.jpg
ThickAsThieves: lol
mircea_popescu: here i am harranguing you people about letters too smal
nubbins`: blue shirt red tie
ThickAsThieves: is that gay will smith?
mircea_popescu: and meanwhile the ny bureaucracy is stuck nosedripping past the screen
ThickAsThieves: anyone have any good questions for him?
mircea_popescu: nubbins` the shoes are the most worrisome.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves i want to know why is his desk so low.
mircea_popescu: isn't he uncomfortable there ?
nubbins`: "shoes"
nubbins`: that's like calling a condom a pair of pants
pLambert: see, he never actually uses the computer, he has another desk to his right
mircea_popescu: sarcasm is the highest form of internetwit.
mircea_popescu: pLambert so your theory is basically scamcomputerdesk ?
pLambert: more that the computer is there for show
mircea_popescu: right.
mircea_popescu: ken lansky.
ThickAsThieves: aww i can only post every 8min
ThickAsThieves: lame
mircea_popescu: how 8 ?!
ThickAsThieves: or 10 or whatever
mircea_popescu: you gotta mine a reddit block ?
ThickAsThieves: "you are doing that too much. try again in 8 minutes."
ThickAsThieves: i did ask "Would you agree that money laundering is now impossible to stop due to inter-cryptocurrency exchanges and a global market outside of the US?"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 7 @ 0.07002201 = 0.4902 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 10 @ 0.063 = 0.63 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: such a pointless question.
ThickAsThieves: couldnt think of anything i actually wanted to know from him
mircea_popescu: ask some chick you met in a bar if she'd agree she's never going to get satisfactorily laid ever again in her life.
ThickAsThieves: well
nubbins`: 9/10 would say "i agree"
ThickAsThieves: it's more putting the topic on the table to see what he says
nubbins`: the other 1 in ten have heard of me
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves bad medium for that approach. i can afford it with noobs here cause they're stuck with me. amas tho...
ThickAsThieves: well the first reply shows it
ThickAsThieves: "there is no evidence that money-launderers , South American Drug Barrons or international terrorist have , of have any intention of EVER using Bitcoin ( The transaction logs on the blockchain will render them traceable ) So they will stick with the good old fashioned Dollar ( latest estimates is that there is over 1.5trillion Dollars involved world-wide ) any comments Ben ?"
mircea_popescu: tbh i kinda like the guy. i mean he looks uncomfortable as all hell and plenty clueless,
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 5 @ 0.02230888 = 0.1115 BTC [-] {4}
mircea_popescu: but otherwise i suspect he means well.
ThickAsThieves: i like him too
ThickAsThieves: i think he likes bitcoin much more than he'll let on
mircea_popescu: not much of a criterion, that.
mircea_popescu: so far bitcoin's been helped more by people that hated it
mircea_popescu: than by those loving it.
Mats_cd03: i think its relatively easy to launder bitcoin
ThickAsThieves: well this is a guy that has an arsenal of red tape and idiocy at his disposal
nubbins`: mircea_popescu, do you know if i should be using a specific snapshot of crystalspace-2.1? http://crystalspace3d.org/cvs-snapshots/zip/
Mats_cd03: certainly not trillions but i could see hundreds of millions being feasible
mircea_popescu: Mats_cd03 how exactly do you put the limit ?
mircea_popescu: if i can launder a dime i can launder a quadrillion.
Mats_cd03: i dont, its arbitrary
nubbins`: latest stable is 2.0, but ./configure checks for >= 2.1
mircea_popescu: just rotate it.
ThickAsThieves: ;;ticker --market mtgox
gribble: MtGox BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 122.0, Best ask: 123.6, Bid-ask spread: 1.60000, Last trade: 121.0, 24 hour volume: 85791.15253635, 24 hour low: 120.69, 24 hour high: 276.24152, 24 hour vwap: 178.66003
mircea_popescu: nubbins` you know the thing is in the first bundle
nubbins`: aha!
nubbins`: ty
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 50 @ 0.0055 = 0.275 BTC
mircea_popescu: mp mp.
ThickAsThieves: lawsky: "I think new, careful regulations, especially related to preventing money laundering, will make banks more comfortable with Bitcoin-related activity over time."
nubbins`: mircea popescu magic points
ThickAsThieves: asnwering a diff q
mircea_popescu: my pleasure
nubbins`: i know ;(
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.0625 = 0.125 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 21 @ 0.07005 = 1.4711 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 20 @ 0.07000024 = 1.4 BTC [-]
benkay: mircea_popescu: method of currency my sides
benkay: exponential growth; logarithmic leaps!
mircea_popescu: waitwut
jcpham: goxfail is an interesting dynamic to follow
jcpham: either masterful manipulation of throngs of users who expect insolvency
jcpham: i can't tell which yet
nubbins`: yeh, interesting times
Mats_cd03: time to buy more btc
nubbins`: people buy btc?
jcpham: very interesting to see if it stops and where
ThickAsThieves: how is it masterful?
ThickAsThieves: things that are obvious are not genius or masterful
jcpham: i've always thought it was gox
ThickAsThieves: mostly just criminal in this case
jcpham: and it isn't obviously mtgox doing it is it?
ThickAsThieves: it is
jcpham: proof because i just speculate it
jcpham: i always have though
mircea_popescu: that's ok, jcpham just has this insane british passion of arguing for the dead underdog.
mircea_popescu: it usually fucks him in the ass, but he keeps a stiff upper buttlip and limps on.
jcpham: unless you guys know of some specific citable proof that mtgox internally is doing this
jcpham: i still say masterful manipulation on mtgox's part for not being proven to do it yet
jcpham: txn volume alone
mircea_popescu: derp.
ThickAsThieves: occam was never one to smack proof over the head
jcpham: not the razor!
mircea_popescu: you know who else isn't proven to be "doing it" yet ?
mircea_popescu: gbbg or w/e it was called, that thing.
mircea_popescu: bggb
mircea_popescu: something.
ThickAsThieves: bel biv devoe?
mircea_popescu: some dumbass forum "security"
mircea_popescu: but when you're done with the derp and are actually ready to look the proof over, try for instance https://twitter.com/krtek_net/status/436492419811405824
mircea_popescu: i dunno how clearer than "we're only executing sell orders if they're over XXX arbitrary value" you can get.
ThickAsThieves: and this http://i.imgur.com/qLYhzR3.jpg
ThickAsThieves: we know it wasnt Namworld selling all dem coins
nubbins`: haha
nubbins`: nice graph
Bugpowder: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_U4a8YoB9w
ozbot: Apocalypse Now - Intro (HD) - YouTube
mircea_popescu: trilema is now using 3mB/s
mircea_popescu: what the fuck people ;/
nubbins`: your popeuloraty is rising
nubbins`: (swidt?)
mircea_popescu: lol popehatness.
mircea_popescu: i gotta say, ancient wordpress is superbly solid software.
mircea_popescu: that's a modest server really spitting out all that shit.
ThickAsThieves: gox gonna break 100
Bugpowder: yep
Mallstromm: double digits here we come
Bugpowder: makes no sense to me
Bugpowder: you aren't getting your dollars out either
ThickAsThieves: you assume it
Bugpowder: why not have 5x the value
ThickAsThieves: s not mostly gox
nubbins`: lelling at the goxbtc-for-realbtc trade in -otc these days
mircea_popescu: Bugpowder might as well enjoy the trading.
mircea_popescu: nubbins` is it going well ?
nubbins`: we won't know until later
nubbins`: rather, it's going well, we're just not sure who it's going well for
dexX7_: almost 3k traded today on bitcoinbuilder.com, no idea how much went through -otc
Bugpowder: Any actual lawsuit shutdown payout will probably come up with a market valuation for the BTC and disburse assets accordingly
ThickAsThieves: in 2016
Bugpowder: how can they not have the coins?
Bugpowder: really
ThickAsThieves: by then ATC will rule
mircea_popescu: Bugpowder lolsuit. remember they still owe the bitcoinica btc ?
ThickAsThieves: really?
Bugpowder: a hot wallet might have been scooped
uglux: how much?
Bugpowder: but not the cold storage
mircea_popescu: Bugpowder it's all gone.
mircea_popescu: that's what the "malleability" bs was all about.
ThickAsThieves: bug they were sending coins more than once
mircea_popescu: they emptied whatever was left and that's that.
Bugpowder: not from a cold wallet
ThickAsThieves: the loss can be as large as their derp
mircea_popescu: uglux 20k, something.
Bugpowder: what was the last wallet address they signed from?
Mats_cd03: they prob emptied a cold wallet or five before they knee about the bug
nubbins`: it's a wonder that a gang of weeaboos hasn't violently assaulted karplelelel yet
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 6 @ 0.02000264 = 0.12 BTC [-]
Mats_cd03: knew*
ThickAsThieves: seriously, at this point i wanna beat him down just because
kakobrekla: the gang is almost doubling every day
kakobrekla: now at 3 people.
ThickAsThieves: lo
mircea_popescu: lol
Mats_cd03: hit him with your keyboard
ThickAsThieves: it's a protest bubble!
mircea_popescu: a GANG of weaboos ? this reminds me of the old mp skit about the evil grannies.
ThickAsThieves: "Many bitcoin enthusiasts think that the widespread adoption of some form of cryptocurrency is an inevitability and that unfriendly governments such as China and Russia will ultimately be powerless to stop it. Do you share this view?"
ThickAsThieves: Lawsky: Hard to put the genie back in the bottle. I can't predict the future but Bitcoin is certainly a new powerful technology that holds a lot of promise for the future if we can mitigate some of the potential negatives like money laundering.
nubbins`: yeah, i guess it's a bit of a reach that weeaboos could organize in meatspace
benkay: Mats_cd03: re: cleaning coins: http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2014/01/31_mix-your-coins-for-1-bitbet-as-mixer.html
pankkake: but bitbets are public
benkay: mircea_popescu: referring to your link ibm/bitcoin poster and the failure of education
benkay: u no ams see "private bitbet" pankkake?!
mircea_popescu: that link was such sad fail.
pankkake: certes
Mallstromm: bitbet "war chest"
Mallstromm: LOL
Mallstromm: maybe they were referring to Mircea's "milky-white chest"
ThickAsThieves: but the coins arent even cleaned
ThickAsThieves: they are just sent back to you, no?
ThickAsThieves: lol 4600 coins bid at 110.00
dignork: ThickAsThieves, coins might be different, but bitbet is useless for hiding, bet wins are returned to the same address, or the one mentioned in initial transfer, so it's easy track
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know how Мичурин died btw ?
benkay: ThickAsThieves: you can check with mircea_popescu and kakobrekla but i believe you'll be getting older coins than you put int.
mircea_popescu: dignork how do you reason ?
benkay: dignork: bet wins are returned to the address of your choice - get it right.
ThickAsThieves: dignork you can specify a new payout address
Mallstromm: lol, only $2M on Gox's order book :D :D :D
dignork: ThickAsThieves: yes, you can, but return address is posted in the betting transaction
ThickAsThieves: now if BitBet itself also needs to clean coins, i could see this working out
ThickAsThieves: :)
ThickAsThieves: not on private bets
uglux: gox is a fucking casino now: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.msg5264088#msg5264088https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.msg5264088#msg5264088
ThickAsThieves: dignork ^
mircea_popescu: dignork so what if the address is posted ?
ThickAsThieves: i wonder if gox will go to single digits
mircea_popescu: lol it'd be epic if they actually put a dice system in.
dignork: mircea_popescu, for proper tumbling return address should be passed out of band, reading about private bets now
mircea_popescu: i do not follow your logic. so address is published. so ?
benkay: american banks fading in relevance: http://venturebeat.com/2014/02/20/online-bank-simple-acquired-by-spains-bbva-for-117m-with-a-focus-on-international-growth/
mircea_popescu: chec it out, 1% of snapchat or w/e it was.
benkay: mircea_popescu dignork: even so, private bets hold addresses...private, keeping third parties from bridging through scraping bitbet
kakobrekla: omg lolz www.bitcoinbuilder.com
Bugpowder: just-dice is much better for mixing
mircea_popescu: don't they do the sdice include inputs in outputs ?
Bugpowder: was better. I'm not sure actually, haven't been following along lately.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.16230094 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla lol they do payouts once a day ? suicide.
mircea_popescu: how many days are there.
kakobrekla: i dunno just got the link from bug :>
nubbins`: lovely responsive design there
kakobrekla: kinda broked neh?
mircea_popescu: Morgan Housel @TMFHousel Critics: Mark Zuckerberg understands the value of social networks better than you do. That's why he's Mark Zuckerberg and you're a critic.
mircea_popescu: Mircea Popescu @Mircea_Popescu @TMFHousel @EddyElfenbein Thank you Mr. Candide. Pangloss is calling, run along now.
nubbins`: http://imgur.com/0c2rj74
ozbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
nubbins`: masterful
mircea_popescu: i'm pasting this here because i'd like at least one person to get it.
mircea_popescu: and i don't see it happening on twitter...
mircea_popescu: nubbins` at least it's not titstrap.
benkay: HAW
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 132 @ 0.00292 = 0.3854 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: http://bitbet.us/bet/281/btc-usd-at-mtgox-will-be-above-150-on/
ozbot: BitBet - BTC/USD at MtGox will be above $150 on Mar 1st 2014
mircea_popescu: holy shit this will burn.
mircea_popescu: 3:45 atm. ppl gonna make out like bandits.
benkay: mhm
benkay: weight's working correctly on that one too.
ThickAsThieves: i got .1 at 3169 weight, not great, but not bad
ThickAsThieves: bitbet has .07 at 99999 weight
ThickAsThieves: hehe
mircea_popescu: ya bitbet will make what, 1 btc there ?
ThickAsThieves: yep
mircea_popescu: course it could just as well go to 3983409583409853098 on the 1st
ThickAsThieves: indeed
ThickAsThieves: kinda surprised bitstamp price is hanging in there
ThickAsThieves: 575 atm
mircea_popescu: check out 1994 :
mircea_popescu: GEORGE: Really? (Jerry shakes his head) Maybe this will become like a cool thing, living with your parents.
mircea_popescu: JERRY: (sarcastically) Ya, then maybe baldness will catch on. This will all be turning your way.
mircea_popescu: today is 2014, and needless to say...
nubbins`: a cool thing
ThickAsThieves: this AMA blows
ThickAsThieves: first one i've ever followed live
ThickAsThieves: basically it's meaningless words with "but money laundering" weaved in
benkay: sounds like typical usg propaganda
Bugpowder: I stopped the terrorists and created 2.5 million jobs with my bit license
Bugpowder: Lawsky's stump speech for NY gov 2016
ThickAsThieves: is pot legal in NY yet? he can add that to his agenda
Bugpowder: http://techcrunch.com/2014/02/20/balanced-coinbase-bitcoin/
ozbot: Marketplace Payments Startup Balanced Partners With Coinbase And Adds Bitcoin Support | TechCrunch
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.50996 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: he's not running for governor.
ThickAsThieves: mayor?
mircea_popescu: i wonder if this ends up in a coinlab-esque trial.
mircea_popescu: nah they have a commie kid for mayor, he'll stick till the town sinks.
Bugpowder: ok 2020 USPrez
mircea_popescu: i think he may be trying for a job in the actual institutions
mircea_popescu: sec, whatever.
ThickAsThieves: except he'll just end up cryptolord, cuz no one else will wanna be it
mircea_popescu: ;;google lansky new york
gribble: Lansky's Old World Deli - CLOSED - Upper West Side - New York ...: <http://www.yelp.com/biz/lanskys-old-world-deli-new-york-2>; Lansky's New York | American, Pasta, Breakfast | Order Online | 235 ...: <http://lanskysnewyork.com/>; West Side Rag » LANSKY'S DELI CLOSES: <http://www.westsiderag.com/2013/02/25/lanskys-deli-closes>
benkay: cryptolord of NYC
benkay: i don't want it.
mircea_popescu: check that out, a closed deli outranks him in ny.
benkay: and i *like* the place.
mircea_popescu: i tell you i dun see governor.
Bugpowder: LAWSKY
benkay: ;;google lawsky new york
gribble: Benjamin M. Lawsky - Department of Financial Services - New York ...: <http://www.dfs.ny.gov/about/staff_bios/blawsky.htm>; Benjamin Lawsky - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Lawsky>; Ben Lawsky (BenLawsky) on Twitter: <https://twitter.com/BenLawsky>
mircea_popescu: o silly me.
mircea_popescu: young guy, anwyay. too soon to say where he ends up.
benkay: us young guys - too young to get shitloads of dollars into btc at the right time, doomed to toil for the cryptolords forever.
mircea_popescu: the wonders of deflationary currencies.
benkay: check your privilege, mircea_popescu
pLambert: so, when MtGox goes away in a day or two, will the price on the other exchanges go back up to 1000?
nubbins`: in a day or two, heh
nubbins`: willing to put some money behind that?
pLambert: nah, I dont like to bet on idiots
benkay: but those are the best bets!
dignork: mircea_popescu, sorry I had to jump offline for a bit, back to the using bitbet as a tumbler, private bets do provide this function, but bitbet.us is not accessible over tor and does not work over https...
nubbins`: no https!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 97375 @ 0.00086765 = 84.4874 BTC [+] {6}
Bugpowder: Gox is solvent
asciilifeform: no, gox is solute.
Bugpowder: we need a new bitbet
mircea_popescu: dignork why isn't it accessible over tor ?!
dignork: mircea_popescu: I meant it does not implement hidden service, or at least I couldn't find the interface
asciilifeform: bitbet is perfectly accessible over tor. but exits can easily substitute in magic addrs instead of the supplied ones.
mircea_popescu: it doesn't as an onion, no, if that's what you meant
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 13 @ 0.02000263 = 0.26 BTC [-] {2}
dignork: mircea_popescu: yep, I meant onion addr, the point is to encrypt the traffic, not identity of the player
mircea_popescu: what's https help anyway ?
mircea_popescu: i don't think you
nubbins`: ^
mircea_popescu: 're proceeding with a clear understanding of what you wish to achieve
mircea_popescu: but moreover are trying to do a particular dance.
mircea_popescu: inasmuch as this is true, and you wish to do "x-tumbler-dance" obviously bitbet won't be a good solution for oyu.
pLambert: use bitbet as tumbler: put in small bet on winning side, put in large (to be laundered) bet on the losing side. Voila, instead of having stolen bitcoins you now have gambling winnings.
mircea_popescu: Bugpowder solvent in the sense of sniffing glue ?
nubbins`: "i am the solvent"
dignork: mircea_popescu: I don't care if it's called tumbler, the idea is that person A sends funds to person B in untraceable way. Placing bet over public channel is not so untraceable.
mircea_popescu: take a bet with a:b odds. place bet A on a going to A', bet B on b going to B'.
mircea_popescu: either A or B is "dirtly", the rest are clean.
mircea_popescu: you are now completely separated.
Mallstromm: really?
dignork: mircea_popescu: assuming it's a private bet, placed over clear channel, it's trivially linked
Mallstromm: are you guys still discussing about the retarded "bitbet as a tumbler" issue?
nubbins`: but the guy monitoring his non-https traffic is observing him placing these bets
Mallstromm: like 5 hours later?
nubbins`: Mallstromm, they took a break
nubbins`: are you harping on people for having a conversation?
nubbins`: ;p
mircea_popescu: dignork maybe trivially doesn't mean what you think it means.
dignork: if it's a public bet, you're risking odds change
mircea_popescu: so use small sums.
mircea_popescu: Mallstromm did you want to contribute something ?
Mallstromm: yep
Mallstromm: if you want to tumble your coins, just send them to bitcoinfog.com and follow the procedure
nubbins`: but i don't trust bitcoinfog
mircea_popescu: who is bitcoinfog ?
Mallstromm: what it's sure is that sending the "tainted" coins from address A to receive them back to address A is just retarded.
mircea_popescu: How the service works
mircea_popescu: You register an account on our website
mircea_popescu: are you retarded ?
Apocalyptic: i'm pretty sure they are selectively scamming
dignork: mircea_popescu: i do not mean script kiddie intercepting plaintext http traffic to bitbet, I mean trivial for law enforcement for example
Mallstromm: mircea: just a little
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.101 = 0.202 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.16230094 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: dignork doing what dood ?
mircea_popescu: so you lost some money on a bet, and some people won it.
mircea_popescu: now what.
Mallstromm: dignork: well, if LE is sniffing your traffic that means they are physically VERY CLOSE to you... Thus you have much bigger problems
dignork: Mallstromm, I assume LE sniffing bitbet traffic
Mallstromm: dignork: I've used bitcoinfog many times. It works just fine. They've been in business for more than a year now. It's as safe as it gets. Just do not send hundreds of coins but a few dozens at a time
MisterE: hah, people are selling off interest in their coins locked up in Cox
nubbins`: "as safe as it gets"
asciilifeform: dignork, Mallstromm: if you're using tor, children are sniffing your traffic
nubbins`: get out
asciilifeform: and laughing.
MisterE: sounds like CDF to me
mircea_popescu: Mallstromm may i point out that the firm guarantees of nobody are worth nothing ?
mircea_popescu: get in the wot, come back in a year, i might care. probably i won't, but anywya.
nubbins`: maybe i'm just being obtuse, but i'm not sure where the confusion is here
MisterE: but in person
MisterE: buy*
MisterE: only tru anon
dignork: asciilifeform, sure, exit nodes are sniffing, or at least could, so it's a working assumption
Mallstromm: sure, exit nodes are sniffing my encrypted traffic
Mallstromm: good for them
mircea_popescu: nubbins` i'd tell you but i'm trying being polite ot the noobs.
asciilifeform: sniffing and, if they wish, changing.
Mallstromm: I'm sure not logging on my personal POP3, non-SSL email account through Tor
Mallstromm: :D
asciilifeform: what part of s/bitbetaddr/magicaddr is difficult to understand
nubbins`: suppose person X's traffic is being sniffed. person X sets up a private bitbet, with input address A and payout address B. sniffer observes this. sniffer now knows that person X controls address B.
nubbins`: hold my hand here, someone
mircea_popescu: nubbins` he knows no such thing.
mircea_popescu: i can use YOUR b.
mircea_popescu: i can use bitstamp's b
mircea_popescu: what now, joejobbing the bitcoin network because we're idiots and we think we can make statements about things we don;'t understand ?
nubbins`: okay, well, let's not get hung up on "know". fact remains that a direct connection has been made between A and B
nubbins`: by the sniffer
nubbins`: this is the essence of dignork's issue
mircea_popescu: where is this sniffer ?
mircea_popescu: bitbet side or user side ?
nubbins`: who cares
dignork: mircea_popescu: bitbet side
nubbins`: both sides
asciilifeform: given that bitbet pumps out unsigned text, there are no sides here
nubbins`: suppose he's in a submarine in the middle of the atlantic
mircea_popescu: i still don't get it.
asciilifeform: the man in the middle can present arbitrary crap instead of what bitbet pumped out.
mircea_popescu: so you ask for an address to bet, and insert an address to receive.
mircea_popescu: this now creates an association, you say ?
asciilifeform: (my observation was about plain theft, rather than de-anonymization)
nubbins`: i do say
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there is a barb here. bitbet addresses are rather consecutive if you've noticed.
asciilifeform: so swap out the 'send winnings to' addr
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but the person can trivially verify this.
mircea_popescu: send 1 bitcent first
asciilifeform: while, when bitbet replies, preserve the genuine addr (that user pasted) in the text.
mircea_popescu: that shows you on the site where it thinks btc is going out.
mircea_popescu: so you know, if you're worried, do it like that
mircea_popescu: and you might even catch the rabbit.
asciilifeform: anyone actually do this?
mircea_popescu: if they give a shit they can
mircea_popescu: if they do not they don't have to.
mircea_popescu: perfect security model.
asciilifeform: trivial exercise: pump bitcoin addrs through tor (exits), see what comes out on the other end.
mircea_popescu: at any rate this is why bitbet addresses work the way they do on this score.
mircea_popescu: surely.
mircea_popescu: nubbins` so now address A dirty is connected to A', clean
mircea_popescu: whereas B clean is connected to B; dirty.
mircea_popescu: a loses, b wins. problem solved.
dignork: mircea_popescu: since bet is private, the bet itself is a link between A and B, the fact that bet was established over plaintext makes it not private in general.
mircea_popescu: dignork i was discussing open bets.
nubbins`: i was discussing closed ones :(
nubbins`: anyway, B isn't clean, the sniffer just watched their suspect tell bitbet to pay out to B
mircea_popescu: i dunno where this "closed bets as tumblr" thing started, but it's not so clever.
mircea_popescu: nubbins` you're not paying attention here.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-02-2014#520070 <☝︎
dignork: mircea_popescu: open bets as tumbler are not usable, since the fee, which contains odds change, is unpredictable
ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 21 @ 0.01950488 = 0.4096 BTC [-] {5}
mircea_popescu: so pick bets that don't contain odds changes.
dignork: but they can be flatten on a series of bets, so ok, it can work
nubbins`: okay, so the person sniffing traffic just watched me provide two addresses, A' and B', to bitbet
mircea_popescu: why "you" ?
nubbins`: how is that clean?
mircea_popescu: it watched user x with a dirty A provide A'
nubbins`: why not me? anyone
mircea_popescu: and user y with clean B provide B'
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 75 @ 0.01930035 = 1.4475 BTC [-] {7}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 6 @ 0.01910042 = 0.1146 BTC [-]
nubbins`: ...oh
nubbins`: i really wasn't paying attention
mircea_popescu: no, the word is d'oh.
benkay: but this thwarts the scammer's desire to launder all their money without having any to begin with.
mircea_popescu: anyway, this isn't so much an exercise in showing how great bitbet is for this purpose, but moreover on how trivial it is to use any properly designed service as a tumbler,
nubbins`: the omission of x vs y in the original statement threw me for a loop
mircea_popescu: and generally how retarded this "taint" bullshit is.
mircea_popescu: there's no taint in bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: thinking otherwise is right out of the book with the flat earth, the perpetuum mobile, the keynesian economics and so on and so forth.
mircea_popescu: mechanical rng, generally the states of sin.
mircea_popescu: who the fuck in his right mind would imagine that a) tor actually serves your anonimity or b) in order to anonimize you create accounts is beyond me.
mircea_popescu: seriously, what is wrong with people.
benkay: fiat thinking takes some time to disloge
Namworld: create accounts?
mircea_popescu: i guess, but srsly...
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: recall your piece on professional cattle management industry?
mircea_popescu: Namworld some derpy service, whatever.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i guess I HAVE TO RECALL IT
mircea_popescu: may i live to forget it.
asciilifeform: just as every NYT turd is guaranteed to mention 'mtgox, the premier exchange,...' whenever it runs a piece on btc
asciilifeform: it is just as mandatory to mention 'tor, anonymity...'
mircea_popescu: "tor, anonimity, accounts"
mircea_popescu: ;;google "partidul, ceausescu, romania"
gribble: Partidul Ceausescu Romania !.flv - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gebLd51J2lc>; Partidul, Ceausescu, Romania - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iz-sl9MpbQY>; Partidul Ceausescu Romania - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL57D595807E9852C9>
asciilifeform: nobody cancelled herr goebbels, marketing genius
dignork: mircea_popescu: what's wrong with tor providing anonimity? I understand it's not absolute, but still better than nothing, and cheap.
asciilifeform: 'repeat lie'
mircea_popescu: dignork i think the answer is contained in your question.
dignork: mircea_popescu: even lame proxies/vpns provide SOME level of anonimity, the fact that they're obviously not absolute does not make them useless.
mircea_popescu: dignork listen here, if you're trying to not be caught cutting school, going to the bar across the street where kids cutting school go isn't your best bet.
asciilifeform: the creation of the most humble lamer is still an improvement over a professionally-designed honeypot.
mircea_popescu: even if they have these funky hats that sort-of make you invisibly unrecognisable.
asciilifeform: if only because it creates no illusions
asciilifeform: u.s. media is almost a magical oracle of what not do to
asciilifeform: if the puppetmasters were clever, they'd occasionally let something useful and intelligent be printed
asciilifeform: just to mask this fact
mircea_popescu: what, to be just like the soviets ?
mircea_popescu: some progress, please.
asciilifeform: haha
dignork: mircea_popescu: ok, you suggest that mere fact of using tor, singles you. Since Snowden-induced paranoia this might not be a case anymore.
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2013/dear-guardian-stop-being-retarded/#comment-95392
ozbot: Dear Guardian : stop being retarded. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: see there.
asciilifeform: the sheer naivete. do we have to draw a picture here?
mircea_popescu: Mallstromm i hope you're taking notes.
asciilifeform: how long does it take to write a perlturd that tells a planted box which other units in a cage are pumping tor?
asciilifeform: 10 minutes?
asciilifeform: then disks pulled, and the obvious endgame.
davout: why is there no "hitler has coins on gox" video yet
mircea_popescu: i don't think anyone actually pulls disks anymore do they ?
mod6: davout: srsly.
mod6 pulls 256 ddms
davout: i'm out, this internet sux
mircea_popescu: see you in boxxy
Apocalyptic: "<m7a> actually, I think right now the entire mtgox issue is pretty relevant to bitcoin as a whole"
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic tell him to read moar trilema and stfu ?
Apocalyptic: why on earth would that be relevant ?
dignork: asciilifeform: pulled disk etc. This is a directed attack. I can imagine this picture, patyvans travels all over us,chaina,w/e and pull disks from all tor users. Srsly?
Apocalyptic: #bitcoin is turning reddit
mircea_popescu: a) you don't need all ; b) nobody actually pulls disks anymore.
Apocalyptic: mircea_popescu, probably wouldn't be able to appreciate what trilema has to offer
mircea_popescu: gotta give people a chance.
dignork: mircea_popescu: I read trilema, like your writing style and general mindset, it just doesn't mean I have to agree with everything you say
mircea_popescu: absolutely not.
Mallstromm: sure, using Tor singles you out. But if you use it correctly that's all they know - that you are using Tor.
Mallstromm: Of course using Tor on Windoze or OS X is just retarded
Mallstromm: probably modern Windoze and OSX are pumping all the data of somebody using Tor on that systems
Mallstromm: but on a custom linux distro is pretty safe.
Mallstromm: and now seriously: where is Vladimir? We need him to make a "hitler discover his coins are stuck on Gox".
jayk: mtgox is really kicking themselves, now they relocated offices
kakobrekla: physical security mebbe
kakobrekla: protesters almost double daily dont ya know
jayk: with it being so low, once the exchanges resume, i wonder if people will cash out or just let it ride till it climbs back up
jayk: with mtgox, do they hold your coins?
kakobrekla: www.ustream.tv/channel/mtgox-protest
kakobrekla: lmao
kakobrekla: www.mtgoxprotest.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/P1030097.jpg
kakobrekla: i dunno whats with the middle guys face, the jacket cleary says "THE NORTH FACE"
kakobrekla: defeats the mask wearing purpose
jayk: lol
Mallstromm: :D
Mallstromm: lol they seem 3 homeless
kakobrekla: they prolly are by now
kakobrekla: i dunno i just find the lappys funny on a protest
kakobrekla: "where is our money?" " oh well, imma gonna play some games now."
mike_c: they aren't playing games, they are day trading on gox
kakobrekla: is there a difference?
lnovy: graphics sucks at mtgox
kakobrekla: gotta preserve dat batter power
lnovy: but gameplay is awesome :)
kakobrekla: battery
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.0627 = 0.1254 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: ha lawsky replied to my ergonomic advice
ThickAsThieves: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1ygcil/as_requested_im_ben_lawsky_superintendent_of_the/cfkbz3z?context=3
mircea_popescu: did he tip you ?
ThickAsThieves: nope, but reddit says i can add it to my resume
Bugpowder: that part was funny
Apocalyptic: ^
kakobrekla: so, anything good inthere?
ThickAsThieves: nope
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 21 @ 0.01910042 = 0.4011 BTC [-]
benkay: !t h rent
assbot: [HAVELOCK:RENT] 1D: 0.00550000 / 0.0055 / 0.00550000 (516 shares, 2.83800000 BTC), 7D: 0.00550000 / 0.0055 / 0.00550000 (5193 shares, 28.56150000 BTC), 30D: 0.00550000 / 0.0055 / 0.00550000 (34696 shares, 190.82800000 BTC)
benkay: rentalstarter seems to be in sales rate decay mode
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.102 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.BBET] 2500 @ 0.00076 = 1.9 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12600 @ 0.00086683 = 10.9221 BTC [-]
TwinWinNerD: What do you guys think is a fair pricing for GoxCoins right now?
kakobrekla: davout was rite.
davout: wat
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2000 @ 0.00087009 = 1.7402 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: 0.0 is fair price
Namworld: The only thing I regret is moving funds out of MtGox before the issues.
ThickAsThieves: thatll go away
Namworld: People are buying gox BTC for 40%-60% in BTC.
Namworld: ;;premium bitstamp mtgox
Apocalyptic: Namworld, much lower now
davout: kakobrekla: log isn't very informative
Bugpowder: Apocalyptic: NOPE
Namworld: I still see people offering 40% at a minimum.
Bugpowder: 0.5 BTC is the current bid
Bugpowder: https://www.bitcoinbuilder.com
Apocalyptic: I saw a trade at 35%
Namworld: While we can buy BTC for 20% of price at other exchanges.
Bugpowder: it bounced
kakobrekla: davout i was agreeing on you re internet sucks after i saw TwinWinNerDs line.
ThickAsThieves: that book barely moves
Bugpowder: that dude that wired $50k in is gonna do well.
davout: kakobrekla: oic
Bugpowder: 450 coins for $50k sheet.
davout: BingoBoingo: chess?
Bugpowder: wish I had account.
Apocalyptic: Bugpowder, do you believe gox is solvent ?
Bugpowder: sure
Bugpowder: how they fuck could they get the cold wallets drained. It's not plausible
ThickAsThieves: so what's the prediction for the next gox announcement?
Namworld: Even if they aren't. You can sell those 450 goxBTC for 180 BTC or 100k+
kakobrekla: buy all the coins then
Bugpowder: them being incompetent at rolling out a code fix and terrible at communication is.
Bugpowder: I have no account tho
davout: Bugpowder: you get the cold wallets drained by having your accounting fucked with. plain and simple
Bugpowder: Doesn't pass the common sense test
Namworld: Either way, right now having fiat on gox allows to buy 2x the BTC you'd get at other exchanges.
benkay: ^^
kakobrekla: its more like 5x
Namworld: By reselling your gox BTC
davout: Bugpowder: what do you mean the common sense test?
benkay: "BTC"
Namworld: I mean if you sell it for actual, guaranteed BTC
Namworld: x2
Namworld: otherwise, x5
kakobrekla: davout i think he is trying to imply tux has one
ThickAsThieves: next theyll probly say authorities are investigating the malleability exploiters, so many funds and accounts are frozen until resolution
ThickAsThieves: dont worry your coins are safe
ThickAsThieves: freenode has a cold
Bugpowder: The test where you are like... Hey my accounting says I need to pay out 100,000BTC from the wallet and oh hey we have been manually resending 100,000BTC in transactions... And oh hey people have been telling us for months that our specific implementation is vulnerable to a malleability attack... I wonder if something is funky
Bugpowder: There were that many malled txns prior to 2/10 to begin with. Certainly not enough to drain the cold storage
ThickAsThieves: well if you are implying they noticed long ago, why did they not fix it?
Bugpowder: were NOT
ThickAsThieves: why did it escalate before being acknowledged
Bugpowder: I'm not implying
kakobrekla: its no point discussing, take your positions if you can, and wait it out
Bugpowder: It is a known fact that many devs told them their method was vulnerable
mircea_popescu: <Bugpowder> how they fuck could they get the cold wallets drained. It's not plausible << what exactly is not plausible about it ?
Bugpowder: At least according to aantop's latest podcast
ThickAsThieves: <Bugpowder> There were that many malled txns prior to 2/10 to begin with. Certainly not enough to drain the cold storage ... source?
ThickAsThieves: i recall linking charts for at least a week or two before
ThickAsThieves: showing escalating frozen wd's
Apocalyptic: so do I
Bugpowder: yeah, that's all I saw too
Apocalyptic: Bugpowder, common sense would indicate you exactly otherwise
Bugpowder: I just don't think its plausible for them to be that stupid
Bugpowder: but I guess the market thinks differently
mircea_popescu: Bugpowder wait, you are actually buying the "malleable tx" bs ?!~
Bugpowder: I think they lost 10k BTC tops
ThickAsThieves: <Bugpowder> At least according to aantop's latest podcast /// what makes him reputable?
mircea_popescu: dude.
Bugpowder: for MtGox yes
mircea_popescu: THEY STOLE IT.
mircea_popescu: they did not lose anything.
Bugpowder: SR2 stole it
mircea_popescu: sigh.
Apocalyptic: Bugpowder seems like another sturles, mtgox diehard fan
mircea_popescu: looky : tux made the "malleable tx"
mircea_popescu: it's not any third party.
ThickAsThieves: Bugpowder why is an arbitrary amount like 10k reasonable, but not much more?
Apocalyptic: but I may be wrong
ThickAsThieves: pulling number out ass?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.48001001 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: it's just the perfect smoke cover, because people suffer from some sort of very particular brain issue.
Bugpowder: If the hypothesis is that mtgox actively embezzled funds... Well that is a possibility.
mircea_popescu: sigh
jborkl: watcging the youtube video of the guy camping and confronting Karpeles, they stole it
jborkl: watching
Bugpowder: But that doesn't make sense. Police care about this shit now
mircea_popescu: o right.
ThickAsThieves: i assume gox committed every crime possible in regards to exploiting their system
Bugpowder: He will go to jail
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 104 @ 0.00460227 = 0.4786 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: this is a perfect argument.
mircea_popescu: a guy who has been runing fractional reserve since ~2011, and who has lied on paperwork submitted
mircea_popescu: was NOT going to jail before
jborkl: and I read the report about the txn problems, someone did a blockchain analysis of the Push_whatever attack- the attack started 2 days after Gox got hit
mircea_popescu: and stealing the wallets is totally unreasonable, because he's going to jail.
mircea_popescu: you need a thinking hat.
Bugpowder: He is going to much more jail if he straight plundered it all.
mircea_popescu: derp.
mircea_popescu: he was going to jail anyway.
ThickAsThieves: to hell with him!
mircea_popescu: he didn't have the bitcoinica funds to pay back.
jborkl: That is the proof in the report, it showed there were no malformed txn even reported on the day Gox said
jborkl: let me find it
Bugpowder: show us the data please!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.48001 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 100 @ 0.00460227 = 0.4602 BTC [-] {2}
Namworld: MtGox reeks of manipulation, purposeful fails and etc.
Namworld: No problem stealing your own business under the eyes of authorities. Right in front of them.
the20year2: New rentalstarter update - We have preliminary acceptance by seller on the 3 unit property. 3 units at $67k
Namworld: Done properly, no evidence. It's quite possible.
mike_c: MPOE market maker uptime since Jan 3: http://i.imgur.com/lwu9eMs.png
ThickAsThieves: i bet it could be forensicly proven gox is manipulating
Namworld: At a minimum, they manipulate price for a profit.
mircea_popescu: mike_c why the pikes ?
mike_c: little blips of up/down time i guess.
Namworld: How? Mark can just claim he had to do all these haltings because of issues.
ThickAsThieves: mike_c, plot it against price
mike_c: price of what?
ThickAsThieves: the index it uses
benkay: actually plot it against implied vol
mircea_popescu: mike_c so either 0 or 1 ?
Namworld: How would one prove that's not the case?
mike_c: yah, 0 is down, 1 is up
jborkl: Those are not BTC being traded anyway, they are Gox coins until they prove they have the reserve to back it
mircea_popescu: no way tho, you mean it was down pretty much solid 8 to 10 jan ?
ThickAsThieves: namworld, by analyzing and auditing book behavior
mike_c: yeah, seem nuts? i can check data.
mircea_popescu: it does seem nuts.
mircea_popescu: also definitely was quoting on the 1st of feb
mike_c: kk, disregard, i did some spot checking on downtimes but maybe not enough. i'll verify.
Namworld: TaT, how would that help? I didn't say manipulate through fake orders. Just through haltings, bad news, etc.
mircea_popescu: mike_c is this based on like 1 sampling/day ?
mike_c: polling every 2 minutes
mircea_popescu: so then why 1/0 ?
mike_c: the graph has a 2 minute resolution
mircea_popescu: from that graph it either was down an entire day or up an entire day or some shit
mike_c: no, not all the pikes are on tick marks
mircea_popescu: mike_c it can't possibly have 2 min resolution seeing how you have what, 20 pixels in each day
mircea_popescu: and a day is longer than 40 minutes
ThickAsThieves: namworld you lost me, i'll i'm saying is i bet if the right people spend the right amount of time looking at orders placed and filled, you'd see gox tzking everyone for a ride
davout: mircea_popescu: not for french civil servants
mircea_popescu: lol
Namworld: Perhaps
mike_c: the data has a 2 minute resolution. the graph is obv. somewhat less, but it is taken from that data.
mircea_popescu: so then shouldn't i be seeing averaging ?
mircea_popescu: and consequently, values other than 1 and 0 ?
mike_c: no, it's not bucketed.
mike_c: if you zoomed in on the graph (not the png), you would get to 2 minute resolution
mircea_popescu: look, bucketed or not, this can't be that.
mircea_popescu: hm
mike_c: ok, first off, let me make sure the down/up is accurate in january.
mike_c: brb
mircea_popescu: i'm off for now, but we continue this tomorro.
mike_c: ok
jborkl: One puzzle is that Mt.Gox announced their difficulties on Feb 7, and then explained Feb 10 that they were stopping withdrawals due to a malleability attack. Since the OP_PUSHDATA2 attack didn't start until Feb 9, this attack can't be responsible for the Feb 7 problems. One possibility is there was a different type of malleability attack that affected Mt.Gox. It would be interesting to get the hash
jborkl: for one of the affected transactions from before Feb 7, to see what was going on.
jborkl: now let me find the data that was posted
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 24 @ 0.05656291 = 1.3575 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12896 @ 0.00087011 = 11.2209 BTC [+] {2}
Bugpowder: At first glance, this does not seem encouraging.
Bugpowder: https://blockchain.info/address/1LNWw6yCxkUmkhArb2Nf2MPw6vG7u5WG7q
ozbot: Bitcoin Address 1LNWw6yCxkUmkhArb2Nf2MPw6vG7u5WG7q
davout: jborkl: it's not impossible that the massive "let's fuck with every single tx floating around" isn't the same attack mtgox is referring to
ThickAsThieves: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=CABsx9T3%2BTOQ6c7%3DqEhOoc%2BtYSp%3Djba-o8MA3Z8N9t05BDdYS5w%40mail.gmail.com&forum_name=bitcoin-development
ozbot: SourceForge.net: Bitcoin: bitcoin-development
Namworld: What's not good with that, Bugpowder?
Bugpowder: The balance is zero
Bugpowder: where are the other mtgox addresses?
Bugpowder: That was the address they sent 500,000BTC to back in 2011.
Bugpowder: https://blockchain.info/address/1DbD7zFjYSQRiATc8dHxWUWSM9YmQYR9JW
ozbot: Bitcoin Address 1DbD7zFjYSQRiATc8dHxWUWSM9YmQYR9JW
jborkl: davout, the person scanned for all transactions that uses op_pushdata, from what I understand that should be very limited to a certain problem being fixed- normally about 40 a day- it was 19 I think on Feb 7th and did not rise until the 10th
Namworld: Is that the MtGox green address?
jborkl: so, it would seem there would have to be two different ways used or Mtgox was super duper special and got hit with a unique attack that was used on no one else
davout: Namworld: green addresses wow
bones`: RIP
Bugpowder: I am downloading the transaction history of that address
Bugpowder: looking for a single big transfer to a putative cold wallet
kakobrekla: >1.) Unfortunately, we don't have a financial report yet. Putting one together is going to be a very time consuming process, and we don't have the time quite yet. Soon though.
kakobrekla: guess who
kakobrekla: well whatever you are no fun
kakobrekla: it goes on
kakobrekla: >2.) The "missing div" period was a result of very bad luck. Right now we don't have any way to prove this, but its what happened.
mike_c: cbtc?
ThickAsThieves: ciphermine?
jborkl: http://www.righto.com/2014/02/the-bitcoin-malleability-attack-hour-by.html
ozbot: Ken Shirriff's blog: The Bitcoin malleability attack graphed hour by hour
kakobrekla: nope!
kakobrekla: and NOPE
jborkl: http://www.righto.com/2014/02/the-bitcoin-malleability-attack-hour-by.html
ozbot: Ken Shirriff's blog: The Bitcoin malleability attack graphed hour by hour
Bugpowder: found the output
Bugpowder: 13faR1RRm9ZkTiQkAnCcbRoajtvNscojEM
kakobrekla: now im dissapoint
mike_c: bitbet?
kakobrekla: now you are trolling
kakobrekla: anyway, its coming from the mouth of new cog pr named samuel
kakobrekla: prolly lab con guy or what
Bugpowder: oh i followed the chain... comes back to 1LNW...
ThickAsThieves: yeah
ThickAsThieves: more clicking
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] [PAID] 1.80943206 BTC to 321`963 shares, 562 satoshi per share
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.1023 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 665 @ 0.00018897 = 0.1257 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 200 @ 0.000855 = 0.171 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16429 @ 0.00087112 = 14.3116 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.00292 = 0.146 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 60 @ 0.00460227 = 0.2761 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 450 @ 0.00226762 = 1.0204 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 87 @ 0.00299919 = 0.2609 BTC [+] {2}
kakobrekla: i dont even notice since i disabled joins and quits
kakobrekla: but its much better experience ircing this way
kakobrekla: less noise.
mike_c: just don't tell anyone what we talked about while OTR there.
kakobrekla: :)
mike_c: ;;later tell mircea_popescu you were right, graph was clumping data points. here it is fixed: http://i.imgur.com/LgHsdOq.png
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 4 @ 0.16230094 = 0.6492 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 35 @ 0.47149599 = 16.5024 BTC [-] {8}
jurov: in all respect, it's not fixed
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mike_c: why not? looks fixed to me
jurov: the times where it went up and down often don't give any useful info
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 70 @ 0.08058349 = 5.6408 BTC [+] {26}
mike_c: hm. is it not useful that it went up and down often?
jurov: better would be really to show average uptime in the period
jurov: you know how mpoe bot works?
jurov: it places orders with some random expiration time
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 29 @ 0.00460228 = 0.1335 BTC [+]
jurov: and then sleps for random time too, perhaps
jurov: so it's usual there are none or two same auotes at once even if all is okay
jurov: *quotes
kakobrekla: and you can exercise both quotes?
jurov: why not?
mike_c: ah, i did not know that. well, it is accurate now at least. could be improved for usefulness. my interest was mostly looking for extended downtime stretches.
kakobrekla: double exposure?
jurov: but it doesn't take long usually
jurov: mp is keen to be unpredictable. back in 2012 mpex even paid btc interest at random time every day
jurov: there was no information in STAT how much
jurov: fortunately, before i can i pull my hair about it, it was canceled
jurov: *i could
kakobrekla: wasnt it ticking all the time?
kakobrekla: iirc twas pulled cause server load or something
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2020 @ 0.00018901 = 0.3818 BTC [+] {4}
jurov: don't remember
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 4671 @ 0.00021168 = 0.9888 BTC [+] {7}
kakobrekla: my brain tends to remember useless things such as that
jurov: yeah, cuz there are millions of mpex accounts
jurov: no i recall something about mp saying he can't do anything useful and safe with the bitcoins anyway
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 2 @ 0.10480001 = 0.2096 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07245931 = 0.1449 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com/?quote=72
kakobrekla: lol
ozbot: #bitcoin-assets bash
kakobrekla: when did this cherry happen
kakobrekla digs logs
asciilifeform: http://www.righto.com/2014/02/ascii-bernanke-wikileaks-photographs.html
ozbot: Ken Shirriff's blog: Hidden surprises in the Bitcoin blockchain and how they are stored: Nelson Mand
asciilifeform: http://www.righto.com/2013/11/how-hacker-news-ranking-really-works.html
ozbot: Ken Shirriff's blog: How Hacker News ranking really works: scoring, controversy, and penalties
asciilifeform: '...Anything with "NSA" in the title is penalized and drops off quickly.'
asciilifeform: '... Severing ties with the NSA started off with a NSA penalty but was so hugely popular it still got the #1 spot. However, it was quickly given an even bigger penalty, forcing it down the page.'
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 1 @ 0.10480001 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 43 @ 0.0055 = 0.2365 BTC
nubbins`: so, havelock
nubbins`: setting aside this whole "we're locking your account if you don't have 2FA enabled"
nubbins`: i wonder are they going to keep the same setup for s.mg (run through a coinbr account) or if they have/will have a direct mpex account
nubbins`: also, pretty hard to claim that 10btc bounty when the site won't load ;(
Bugpowder: #mtgox channel is muted.
kakobrekla: :D
nubbins`: fools, they should just blanket +q on join
ThickAsThieves: <nubbins`> i wonder are they going to keep the same setup for s.mg (run through a coinbr account) or if they have/will have a direct mpex account /// it already is
nubbins`: it already is what?
ThickAsThieves: it was only a coinbr thing for the first week
ThickAsThieves: then i got mpex
nubbins`: oh, the overview page still says it's going through coinbr
ThickAsThieves: the shares will be transferred to their mpex
nubbins` nods
nubbins`: gotta say, those guys seem more like rank amateurs every day
ThickAsThieves: i suppose they would quite literally be amateurs, and we all know that already
ThickAsThieves: not like they have experienc erunning exchanges
ThickAsThieves: or claimed to
nubbins`: or secure websites
nubbins`: for any definition of secure
ThickAsThieves: i do think auto-locking accounts is an odd move
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 145 @ 0.000855 = 0.124 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: maybe okay if you feel like youve been compromised or something
nubbins`: just one more odd move in a long string of them
ThickAsThieves: seems more likely this was because the software change made the situation easier this way
ThickAsThieves: cavirtex is definitely making some insulting moves
nubbins`: they were patching up basic-level security holes are recently as last summer
nubbins`: cavirtex is shady as fuck too, tbh
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 2 @ 0.10480001 = 0.2096 BTC [+]
nubbins`: shame, since there's no trustworthy CAD exchanges
pankkake: the unlocking does not require anything, just ask for it to be unlocked
pankkake: so this is basically a "are you alive" probe
pankkake: I signed the request with my gpg key for good measure, but…
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 104 @ 0.0055 = 0.572 BTC {2}
nubbins`: but they don't give a fuck if you do or not
nubbins`: tbh, how do they even know if that's your gpg key or not
nubbins`: s/tbh/tbf
pankkake: you can't, unless you see that key used elsewhere or signed by others
nubbins`: nod
nubbins`: you might as well have included a photograph of yourself as a young man
pankkake: you can actually put images as GPG identities :)
nubbins`: problem solved! :D
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.06215005 = 0.2486 BTC [-] {3}
r3wt: ;;bcauth r3wt
gribble: Request successful for user r3wt, hostmask r3wt!add82c3d@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Your challenge string is: freenode:#bitcoin-otc:624dc741886c82e2a81b4d16bcc0b6ba784d79ab89954e305f5449c3
r3wt: Vexual: are you here
nubbins`: depends on your definition of here
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 1 @ 0.10480001 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24295 @ 0.00087189 = 21.1826 BTC [+]
r3wt: if you see him, let him know i imported that key finally
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 2 @ 0.10480001 = 0.2096 BTC [+]
nubbins`: why not do a ;;later tell vexual :)
r3wt: i'm still a nub and not familiar with all the commands
nubbins`: just type ;;later tell vexual <message>
r3wt: ;;later tell Vexual i imported that private key. lets arrange a time to chat
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.16230094 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 11 @ 0.02098174 = 0.2308 BTC [+] {3}