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Apr 30 11:04:17 *	Now talking on #techrights
Apr 30 11:04:17 *	Topic for #techrights is: TechRights.org | Channel #techrights for http://TechRights.org :: please also join channels #boycottnovell-social #techbytes and #boycottnovell
Apr 30 11:04:17 *	Topic for #techrights set by schestowitz!~schestowi@unaffiliated/schestowitz at Sat Jun  9 19:16:19 2012
Apr 30 11:04:18 <mp_en_viaje>	hello
Apr 30 11:11:18 <schestowitz>	hi
Apr 30 11:11:59 <mp_en_viaje>	soo, this place was recently mentioned in the most serene republic's forum. i figured i'd check it out.
Apr 30 11:12:36 <schestowitz>	switzerland?
Apr 30 11:12:39 <mp_en_viaje>	http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-30#1910197 << item.
Apr 30 11:12:45 <mp_en_viaje>	anyone know that cat-v reference ?
Apr 30 11:12:50 -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-	Connection timed out after 10001 milliseconds ( status 0 @ http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-30#1910197 )
Apr 30 11:12:59 <mp_en_viaje>	hm.
Apr 30 11:13:19 <schestowitz>	not reach site
Apr 30 11:13:21 <mp_en_viaje>	http://104.131.72.249/log/2019-04-30#1910197
Apr 30 11:13:21 -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-	104.131.72.249 | tmsr - Log 2019-04-30
Apr 30 11:13:33 <mp_en_viaje>	there's some dns shenanigans afoot i guess. anyways.
Apr 30 11:13:49 <schestowitz>	catv?
Apr 30 11:13:56 <schestowitz>	not idea what that is
Apr 30 11:14:04 <mp_en_viaje>	alright. so what's this all about then ?
Apr 30 11:14:09 <schestowitz>	verbase cat ;-)
Apr 30 11:14:21 <schestowitz>	verbose
Apr 30 11:15:28 <mp_en_viaje>	schestowitz, cat-v was an attempt by thinking people to salvage computers in particular and intellectual activity in general from the mob of retards & other children not left behind that should've been left behind. it principally revolved around one fellow, who died. after he died, the thing turned into scar tissue.
Apr 30 11:16:13 <schestowitz>	cat-v does sound familiar
Apr 30 11:16:19 <schestowitz>	just not sure where from
Apr 30 11:16:54 <mp_en_viaje>	aite.
Apr 30 11:17:17 <mp_en_viaje>	schestowitz, so are you running the channel logger ?
Apr 30 11:18:51 <schestowitz>	for 11+ years now
Apr 30 11:19:52 <mp_en_viaje>	that's a longish time. what all happened in the interval ?
Apr 30 11:21:31 <schestowitz>	we changed missions
Apr 30 11:21:35 <schestowitz>	as Novell went out of business
Apr 30 11:23:34 *	mp_en_viaje is listening.
Apr 30 11:24:12 <mp_en_viaje>	schestowitz, afaik they were jsut bought by some other corp, continuing as division.
Apr 30 11:24:36 <mp_en_viaje>	LSE: MCRO
Apr 30 11:25:15 <mp_en_viaje>	same guys who bought to bury the borland source code pile etcetera.
Apr 30 11:26:15 <schestowitz>	3 changeovers
Apr 30 11:26:18 <schestowitz>	since 2010
Apr 30 11:26:26 <mp_en_viaje>	basically, the empire's been warehousing / concentrating its various outposts in the republic since the big leaks.
Apr 30 11:26:27 <schestowitz>	attachmate the first
Apr 30 11:26:33 <schestowitz>	now some Swedish holding company
Apr 30 11:26:44 <schestowitz>	but in parts, Novell has been further partitioned since
Apr 30 11:27:03 <schestowitz>	SUSE is a big SAP supplier
Apr 30 11:27:13 <schestowitz>	German Intel/BND and others in its network
Apr 30 11:27:18 <mp_en_viaje>	right.
Apr 30 11:27:52 <mp_en_viaje>	so was this internally represented as some sort of victory, or rather as simple defeat, "we can't meaningfully interact with this fox in all fairness" ?
Apr 30 11:28:49 <schestowitz>	oh, since you mention this..
Apr 30 11:28:53 <schestowitz>	you have GOT to read this:
Apr 30 11:28:59 <schestowitz>	it's a week or two old:
Apr 30 11:29:31 <schestowitz>	http://techrights.org/2019/04/14/ronald-hovsepian-vs-techrights/
Apr 30 11:29:34 -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-	techrights.org | ‘Poor’ (Multi-Millionaire) Novell CEO, Who Colluded With Steve Ballmer Against GNU/Linux, is Trying to Censor Techrights | Techrights
Apr 30 11:29:52 <mp_en_viaje>	alright, since you say i gotta, then im gonna.
Apr 30 11:30:32 <schestowitz>	shows how effective we were even one decade ago
Apr 30 11:30:58 <mp_en_viaje>	schestowitz, there's two things i dislike about that site. one is that the viewport's extremely narrow, i have to zoom in like 4 times. the other's that it misses the selection thing, like http://trilema.com/2015/that-spiffy-selection-thing/#selection-29.0-29.14 therefore if i want to link to a specific item i
Apr 30 11:31:00 -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-	That spiffy selection thing. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu.
Apr 30 11:31:01 <mp_en_viaje>	'm sol.
Apr 30 11:32:18 <schestowitz>	techrights.org has the same design as in 2006
Apr 30 11:32:30 <schestowitz>	it's intentional, maybe a feature, we're a tad retro
Apr 30 11:32:35 <mp_en_viaje>	i guess.
Apr 30 11:32:42 <schestowitz>	wannt get an APPPPPP?
Apr 30 11:32:47 <schestowitz>	With SOCIAL MEEEEDIA?
Apr 30 11:32:51 <mp_en_viaje>	no.
Apr 30 11:32:58 <schestowitz>	And 30 MB of JAVAAAASCRIPT?
Apr 30 11:33:08 <mp_en_viaje>	schestowitz, you don't know who i am, do you ?
Apr 30 11:35:21 <schestowitz>	I don't
Apr 30 11:35:34 <schestowitz>	potentially edgy it seems, but not intimidating
Apr 30 11:36:10 <schestowitz>	mp_en_viaje is ~humperdin
Apr 30 11:36:34 <mp_en_viaje>	schestowitz, https://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/01/20/openbsd_bailed_out/ << can start say there.
Apr 30 11:36:35 -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-	www.theregister.co.uk | Romanian Bitcoin baron 'stumps up $20k to keep OpenBSD's lights on' • The Register
Apr 30 11:37:14 <schestowitz>	 Mircea Popescu ?
Apr 30 11:37:17 <mp_en_viaje>	yes.
Apr 30 11:37:21 <mp_en_viaje>	hence the mp.
Apr 30 11:37:43 <schestowitz>	aha
Apr 30 11:38:29 <mp_en_viaje>	but anyway, as to the article i'm reading : "We have lots to say to refute this letter, but why bother replying to it directly?" << i can tell you why it's worth replying to it directly : because as i come by and try to evaluate what's going on, i can't quite understand what's in contention. are you proposing you got the dude fired ? are you proposing his fellow rats didn't hire him anymore because you put the kaibosh on his head, like it happen
Apr 30 11:38:29 <mp_en_viaje>	ed when i sent rando "bitcoin head developer" packing ? is it simply a case of "oh noes, lawyers send letters, we've been chosen" ? 
Apr 30 11:38:55 <mp_en_viaje>	i don't know what i'm reading here.
Apr 30 11:39:22 <schestowitz>	I wrote that in a hurry amid EPO coverage
Apr 30 11:39:38 <schestowitz>	had I gone into details, it would be clearer with more links to articles from 2010
Apr 30 11:39:50 <schestowitz>	we're past 25,000 articles at techrights now
Apr 30 11:39:59 <mp_en_viaje>	for all i can readily evaluate, the ~only factual statement in all of this, specifically whether any suse employees were terminated at so and so juncture, may even be true. in any case i don't perceive enough substance there to send my own intel checking -- specifically because you make no strong statement either way, for all i know you're agreeing ?
Apr 30 11:40:41 <schestowitz>	I stated upfront that I wasn't going to do a detailed rebuttal of the latter (albeit I could)
Apr 30 11:40:51 <mp_en_viaje>	schestowitz, i once sat down at a bar, and asked for apple pie. they brought me it. i tried some. girl asked me what's the problem ? i said the pie's not very good. she replied "oh, we have so many pies". "are any good ?" "not really". 
Apr 30 11:40:55 <mp_en_viaje>	you see where this is heading ?
Apr 30 11:40:57 <schestowitz>	(remember this goes back almost a decade when I wrote about 10 articles a day)
Apr 30 11:41:04 <mp_en_viaje>	nothing wrong with that.
Apr 30 11:41:28 <schestowitz>	putting the letter out there was the key thing
Apr 30 11:41:44 <schestowitz>	he could not get a job after Novell because he had colluded with Steve Ballmer 
Apr 30 11:42:09 <mp_en_viaje>	"supported by a lot of media references" << see, but all i find here is a summary statement i can't evaluate. 
Apr 30 11:42:15 <mp_en_viaje>	but sure, nothing wrong with putting the letter out there.
Apr 30 11:42:25 <mp_en_viaje>	do you want to see a letter i put out there ?
Apr 30 11:42:32 <schestowitz>	go for it
Apr 30 11:42:57 <mp_en_viaje>	http://trilema.com/2014/interacting-with-fiat-institutions-a-guide/
Apr 30 11:42:59 -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-	Interacting with fiat institutions, a guide on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu.
Apr 30 11:43:42 *	schestowitz looks
Apr 30 11:43:43 <mp_en_viaje>	~same idea, except of course from the administration rather than from the private side of that liberal profession ; and i daresay with clearly-er stated points of fact, law an' ideology.
Apr 30 11:44:48 <schestowitz>	Wow, very courageous
Apr 30 11:44:56 <schestowitz>	The Novell letter wasn't even the 'scary' one
Apr 30 11:45:19 <schestowitz>	we got some from EPO lawyers, who didn't like us receiving leaks that expose corruption
Apr 30 11:45:45 <schestowitz>	And there was the case Microsoft OOXML threats, I think it's the first we got (2008)
Apr 30 11:46:07 <mp_en_viaje>	oh, keks. here : http://trilema.com/2017/the-incidental-humiliation-of-obamas-clean-energy-policies-marc-andreessens-internet-of-farts-and-other-such-comedic-gold-bricks/ (that time when we published a buncha admin pws for a bunch of public funds bought, useless "green energy" pieces of shit)
Apr 30 11:46:09 -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-	The incidental humiliation of Obama's "clean energy" policies ; Marc Andreessen's Internet of Farts and other such comedic gold bricks. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu.
Apr 30 11:46:45 <schestowitz>	greenwashing
Apr 30 11:46:58 <schestowitz>	did you see wikileaks macron leaks?
Apr 30 11:47:04 <mp_en_viaje>	quite. but you see, with ~numbers~. with dates, with fucking passwords so everyoen can check etcetera.
Apr 30 11:47:09 <schestowitz>	they too have something to that effect
Apr 30 11:47:26 <mp_en_viaje>	not easy to get by now, it's such ridiculous nonsense it leaks like a sieve.
Apr 30 11:47:30 <schestowitz>	admission that carbon tax would somehow balanced removal of employees benefit
Apr 30 11:48:04 <mp_en_viaje>	course, the linked piece was 2017, ie, as per usual, before wikileaks. and actually, before people started figuring out the whole solar scam.
Apr 30 11:49:07 <schestowitz>	I remember that article from Gavin Clarke about openbsd
Apr 30 11:49:14 <schestowitz>	he no longer writes there AFAIK
Apr 30 11:49:21 <mp_en_viaje>	possibly not.
Apr 30 11:49:24 <schestowitz>	He used to cover lots of Microsoft PR
Apr 30 11:49:30 <schestowitz>	Later a bit of Canonical
Apr 30 11:49:52 <mp_en_viaje>	but anyway, the only important point here, rather far from "oh yeah ? well my daddy could beat your daddy" or whatever dickmeasuring, is that existence is predicated on action. gotta DO to exist.
Apr 30 11:51:08 <schestowitz>	activism sense?
Apr 30 11:51:14 <schestowitz>	https://www.suse.com/c/going-to-sapphire-now-2019-dont-miss-to/
Apr 30 11:51:16 <schestowitz>	lol
Apr 30 11:51:17 -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-	Going to @SAPPHIRENOW 2019? Don't miss out visiting SUSE Booth #2246 - SUSE Communities
Apr 30 11:51:19 <schestowitz>	suse just published this
Apr 30 11:51:25 <schestowitz>	SAP PR every single day this month.
Apr 30 11:51:30 <mp_en_viaje>	meh, "activism" doesn't mean much to me. no, republican sense.
Apr 30 11:53:00 <schestowitz>	are you referring to the lawyers' pockets and some such?
Apr 30 11:54:24 <mp_en_viaje>	no, i'm referring to say the republic baking its own hardware ; there's a guy who lives in uruguay to maintain our independent datacenter ; some guy went to qatar on diplomatic mission. did i tell you about that time i enslaved the head of the hr dept of usg's airline security mfg, leaving them in a lurch ? 
Apr 30 11:54:27 <mp_en_viaje>	that sorta thing. doing.
Apr 30 11:56:53 <schestowitz>	what is the end goal?
Apr 30 11:56:55 <mp_en_viaje>	here : https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolereneecichocki | http://trilema.com/2018/meet-miss-piggy/
Apr 30 11:56:56 -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-	 ( status 999 @ https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolereneecichocki )
Apr 30 11:56:57 -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-	Meet Miss Piggy on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu.
Apr 30 11:57:21 <mp_en_viaje>	the end goal is the definitive destruction of even the possibility of the socialist state.
Apr 30 11:59:38 <schestowitz>	should have added nsfw
Apr 30 12:00:03 <mp_en_viaje>	hm. i guess i should have.
Apr 30 12:00:42 <mp_en_viaje>	of course, from where i sit the "nsfw" notion's as much part of the problem as macron or w/e similar oldwoman-driven bullshit.
Apr 30 12:02:19 <schestowitz>	trudeau obama  and macron
Apr 30 12:02:27 <schestowitz>	young, but persisting with same agenda
Apr 30 12:02:57 <schestowitz>	maybe good at getting some millennial votes, people who still have energy and activism
Apr 30 12:03:05 <mp_en_viaje>	there's some debate ongoing whether it's properly speaking any kind of agenda. in principle, stuff in your fridge molds because it molds, not because it conspires to mold.
Apr 30 12:03:17 <mp_en_viaje>	the failure modes of society are driven by failure, not necessarily by conspiracy.
Apr 30 12:03:35 <schestowitz>	that's true
Apr 30 12:03:47 <schestowitz>	ability to change is restrained by all sorts of underhanded means
Apr 30 12:05:20 <mp_en_viaje>	so then, from the socialism=stupidity grand equation, one can readily arrive at "if there wasn't this '''particular''' macronobama, there'd have been '''another''', much like meat left in the sun will be flyblown, not by any ~particular~ fly, but by the circumstances of meat, open air, and sun above.
Apr 30 12:06:52 <schestowitz>	the trajectories do vary, there's competition over them
Apr 30 12:07:00 <mp_en_viaje>	i suppose there is.
Apr 30 12:07:04 <schestowitz>	ideaologies
Apr 30 12:07:08 <schestowitz>	god complexes
Apr 30 12:07:16 <schestowitz>	*ideologies
Apr 30 12:07:37 <schestowitz>	bill gates has managed to turn all US schools (getting there) private
Apr 30 12:07:48 <schestowitz>	for-profit, oligarch-owned
Apr 30 12:09:06 <mp_en_viaje>	if not owned by the lord and master, how are schools supposed to work ?
Apr 30 12:09:23 <mp_en_viaje>	oxford worked for as long as it was oligarch-owned, and died ignominously just as soon as that went away.
Apr 30 12:09:27 <schestowitz>	teachers
Apr 30 12:09:45 <mp_en_viaje>	but teacher either means "someone who understands the lord" or else means "some rando talking gibberish"
Apr 30 12:09:54 <schestowitz>	administration kills academia and schools
Apr 30 12:10:00 <mp_en_viaje>	now that is true.
Apr 30 12:10:03 <schestowitz>	overpaid bureaucrats
Apr 30 12:10:14 <mp_en_viaje>	but it's true principally because lordship abdicated from ownership.
Apr 30 12:10:44 <schestowitz>	what about NHS?
Apr 30 12:10:52 <schestowitz>	Overpaying some private firms now
Apr 30 12:11:00 <schestowitz>	same in Finland
Apr 30 12:11:13 <mp_en_viaje>	too many doctors, their guild failed some time ago.
Apr 30 12:11:53 <mp_en_viaje>	but it failed like everything fails : once authority abdicates, the scar tissue moves in. those bureaucrats, obviously enough want to save their necks, as their first imperative. but in secnd place, they don't want to fuck shi tup. they want to do as best they can.
Apr 30 12:12:14 <mp_en_viaje>	the problem is that there's no possibility of meaning except as predicated upon authority. absent authority, maning dissolves and the poor schmucks are left without a rudder.
Apr 30 12:12:44 <mp_en_viaje>	so they replace schooling with pep rallies and "safety debriefs" or w/e.
Apr 30 12:13:52 <schestowitz>	w/e?
Apr 30 12:14:31 <mp_en_viaje>	w/e = whatever.
Apr 30 12:15:11 <schestowitz>	ic..
Apr 30 12:17:03 <schestowitz>	either way...
Apr 30 12:17:17 <schestowitz>	schools should be paternalistic in the merits sense
Apr 30 12:17:19 <mp_en_viaje>	the problem with nhs isn't the n in it. the problem's everyone involved is trying to get in george costanza's position, "they can't accuse me of not being comfortable", rather than trying to do anything positive.
Apr 30 12:17:31 <schestowitz>	profit motive skewers them
Apr 30 12:17:51 <mp_en_viaje>	schestowitz, or rather, schools can't be any other way. though people could go about calling african temples "schools", this is not unlike calling cow piss "beer". if you do you do and once you stop doing it...
Apr 30 12:18:15 <mp_en_viaje>	it's not at all clear to me that profit motive has anything to do with any of it.
Apr 30 12:18:28 <schestowitz>	merit is OK
Apr 30 12:18:37 <schestowitz>	merit and profit isn't always the same
Apr 30 12:18:56 <mp_en_viaje>	empirically evident, this.
Apr 30 12:19:20 <schestowitz>	that it is or isn't?
Apr 30 12:19:35 <mp_en_viaje>	that they're not always the same.
Apr 30 12:20:03 <schestowitz>	indoctrination tells people otherwise
Apr 30 12:20:15 <mp_en_viaje>	if you give free money to idiots, those idiots can then band together and invest random nonsense with "profit", arbitrarily. much like if you give the same idiots "choice" they can go about reconstructing lords out of scapegoats. and so on.
Apr 30 12:20:50 -viera/#techrights-	Tux Machines: today's howtos http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/123362 [https://pleroma.site/objects/c4b6f4e0-7a4f-4e1d-9c6b-6458dd9332bc]
Apr 30 12:21:35 <schestowitz>	OK, but if profits begets profit, that too can evade a moralistic perspective
Apr 30 12:22:09 <schestowitz>	you could chop down the Amazon forests. but that would not be as clever as profitable (sort term)
Apr 30 12:22:11 <schestowitz>	*short
Apr 30 12:23:53 <mp_en_viaje>	alcibiades of athens does not become leonidas ist through the procedure of athens gathering together and "agreeing" alcibiades is leonidas. nor by voting, not any other way. and some random pornai from the port doesn't become gorgo just because the punters say so.
Apr 30 12:24:58 <mp_en_viaje>	schestowitz, well obviously, profit miscalculated (such as by externalizing internalities) is just a joke. a teenager could run a "profitable" 2nd hand shop by cutting school and selling his mother's wardrobe while the parents are at work. this is profit only from the particularly braindamaged pov of adolescents.
Apr 30 12:25:17 <mp_en_viaje>	in fact, every dollar he makes costs him more than a dollar. however he misrepresents this fact to himself.
Apr 30 12:25:37 <schestowitz>	right
Apr 30 12:26:25 <mp_en_viaje>	well, so then there's a difference between the profit motive (i'm not going to drive 50 miles to fill the tank a cent cheaper per gallon, it's not profitable) and sheer idiocy (ima sell dad's shoes for cheap)
Apr 30 12:26:54 <schestowitz>	Societal cost isn't just economic though
Apr 30 12:26:57 <mp_en_viaje>	profit motive nude and rude is the basis of what little sanity's left in the world.
Apr 30 12:27:04 <schestowitz>	the examples you provided boil down to currency alone
Apr 30 12:27:11 <mp_en_viaje>	so give some others.
Apr 30 12:27:42 <schestowitz>	human pain might be one measurable attribute, or contrariwise happiness
Apr 30 12:28:21 <mp_en_viaje>	"the avoidance of pain can never be the point of policy ; for the simplest solution to this problem is just killing everyone."
Apr 30 12:28:46 <schestowitz>	source?
Apr 30 12:28:59 <mp_en_viaje>	<
Apr 30 12:29:09 <schestowitz>	a bit simplistic
Apr 30 12:29:12 <schestowitz>	if not nihilistic
Apr 30 12:30:05 <mp_en_viaje>	it's a matter of fact, though. (poincare -- not the scientist, his brother, the politician -- also said something very similar)
Apr 30 12:30:47 <schestowitz>	profit is a debt system
Apr 30 12:30:56 <schestowitz>	debt is existent in nature
Apr 30 12:31:04 <schestowitz>	but humans take it further, to greater scale
Apr 30 12:31:08 <mp_en_viaje>	i don't follow that.
Apr 30 12:31:28 <schestowitz>	so if you strive for profit but have nobody left, then it defeats its very creator
Apr 30 12:31:40 <schestowitz>	monkeys have debt too
Apr 30 12:31:46 <schestowitz>	owing favours and such
Apr 30 12:31:52 <schestowitz>	of queen termites
Apr 30 12:32:02 <schestowitz>	but money is a made-man abstraction
Apr 30 12:32:23 <schestowitz>	for 'indebtitude'
Apr 30 12:32:43 <mp_en_viaje>	i do not agree.
Apr 30 12:32:43 <schestowitz>	so profit without any humans would be like a bug devouring its host
Apr 30 12:32:56 <schestowitz>	"look, I got a whole bunch of lumber here, but people are all starving"
Apr 30 12:33:04 <mp_en_viaje>	money predates humans, and exists independently of any human agency, much like truth or beauty.
Apr 30 12:33:10 <mp_en_viaje>	or infinitesimal calculus.
Apr 30 12:33:49 <mp_en_viaje>	people's notion of physics, much like people's notion of astronomy, or money, or whatever other imanent, is always wrong and could occasionally be improving. but the things that are are.
Apr 30 12:34:07 *	Researcher- has quit (K-Lined)
Apr 30 12:34:56 <schestowitz>	where was money before humans?
Apr 30 12:35:15 <schestowitz>	(where by money I mean tokenised currency for bartering)
Apr 30 12:35:22 *	unmanbearpig (~unmanbear@45.76.95.141) has joined #techrights
Apr 30 12:35:50 <mp_en_viaje>	"there was physics before humans ? where by physics i mean foucault's pendulum ?"
Apr 30 12:36:00 <mp_en_viaje>	you don't get to mean that. but yes, there's been money from the very beginning.
Apr 30 12:36:29 <mp_en_viaje>	the atp cycle's a fine example of money before humans. 
Apr 30 12:42:26 <schestowitz>	not familiar with it
Apr 30 12:43:51 <mp_en_viaje>	all life rests on the successive oxidation and then reduction of adenosine triphosphate. it's a complex organic molecule.
Apr 30 12:45:14 <mp_en_viaje>	plays a role in your feeling of "tiredness" after exertion. your muscles being sore's called "oxygen debt" because the similarity's striking to the biology-familiar.
Apr 30 12:47:22 <schestowitz>	I think it is still a stretch calling that "money"
Apr 30 12:47:52 <mp_en_viaje>	and why ?
Apr 30 12:47:57 <schestowitz>	money as we know about it now is a deposit of labour
Apr 30 12:48:20 <schestowitz>	wherein you manage how much one is owed, entitled to etc.
Apr 30 12:48:26 <mp_en_viaje>	we do not agree on this test ; nevertheless the atp molecule passes it ; and passes it better than any fiat currency.
Apr 30 12:48:31 <mp_en_viaje>	passes it as well as the old specie currency did.
Apr 30 12:48:42 <schestowitz>	the body works at a localised scale. I sometimes use the term "sleep debt"...
Apr 30 12:48:54 <schestowitz>	Like, if I oversleep one night and deprive myself the next
Apr 30 12:48:58 <mp_en_viaje>	this concept of "localised scale" will have to be introduced, it doesn't seem to mean anything.
Apr 30 12:49:11 <mp_en_viaje>	all interaction is "localised scale", physics does not permit udp style one-to-all packeting.
Apr 30 12:49:31 <schestowitz>	udp gets copied
Apr 30 12:49:36 <schestowitz>	then split
Apr 30 12:49:40 <mp_en_viaje>	right.
Apr 30 12:49:57 <mp_en_viaje>	specifically because no such thing as that concept can exist in the world.
Apr 30 12:49:58 <schestowitz>	the replication means many come into existence in the process
Apr 30 12:54:45 -viera/#techrights-	Tux Machines: Games: TwinCop, Overcooked! 2, SKYHILL: Black Mist http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/123363 [https://pleroma.site/objects/5df2e7de-24cf-4ea2-ab8b-b94b40c6f230]
Apr 30 12:55:49 *	unmanbearpig has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
Apr 30 12:59:02 <schestowitz>	unmanbearpig familiar freenode username, for ages ago
Apr 30 12:59:12 <schestowitz>	*from ages ago
Apr 30 12:59:41 -viera/#techrights-	Tux Machines: Programming Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/123365 [https://pleroma.site/objects/eda71883-701e-46d1-8afb-279a19bbf609]
Apr 30 12:59:43 <mp_en_viaje>	seinfeld fan, i guess
Apr 30 13:01:41 -viera/#techrights-	Tux Machines: #Security Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/123366 [https://pleroma.site/objects/ab42efd5-c8d2-4ed0-aaf7-7dc41084a2c2]
Apr 30 13:01:45 *	scientes (~scientes@unaffiliated/scientes) has joined #techrights
Apr 30 13:03:21 -viera/#techrights-	Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/123364 [https://pleroma.site/objects/3490c252-d826-49a1-a97b-fb11c2725fdf]
Apr 30 13:03:46 <XRevan86>	If ATP is like currency, I can get richer by having more of it
Apr 30 13:04:53 <mp_en_viaje>	with all the problems being richer brings, such as becoming heavy.
Apr 30 13:04:59 <mp_en_viaje>	but, yes.
Apr 30 13:05:05 <XRevan86>	And then I can exchange my ATP for other goods.
Apr 30 13:05:22 <mp_en_viaje>	quite. for instance, if you get big tits, and heavy hips, you get a better pick of the available dick.
Apr 30 13:05:47 <mp_en_viaje>	in any case you can exchange it for safety ; as it powers running away.
Apr 30 13:07:00 <XRevan86>	That still sounds more like a powerful tool than currency.
Apr 30 13:07:12 <mp_en_viaje>	but just like in the case of other attempts to concretely implement money, the exchange's more important than the storage. which is why most live  things recicle ~their body weight worth of atp each day. 
Apr 30 13:07:23 <schestowitz>	[12:04] <mp_en_viaje> quite. for instance, if you get big tits, and heavy hips, you get a better pick of the available dick.
Apr 30 13:07:26 <mp_en_viaje>	all practical implementations of money are powerful tools.
Apr 30 13:07:27 <schestowitz>	it shortens your life
Apr 30 13:07:36 <schestowitz>	so there's a multi-faceted aspect at play
Apr 30 13:07:59 <mp_en_viaje>	schestowitz, "life" is ambiguous here. it shortens your life in the sense of time, but it intensifies it in sense of quality. would you rather live a century as a 100 year-old, or twenty years as a 20 yo ?
Apr 30 13:08:04 <XRevan86>	schestowitz: A perfect analogy for goons killing for one's currency, he-he.
Apr 30 13:09:06 <schestowitz>	mp_en_viaje: that's a whoole 'nother philosophical debate, such as goal or essence of life, or living.
Apr 30 13:09:14 <mp_en_viaje>	sure. 
Apr 30 13:09:16 <XRevan86>	mp_en_viaje: Anyone would rather live a balanced most effective life rather than either.
Apr 30 13:09:19 <schestowitz>	I'm tight on money because we choose not to have kids, nobody to pass money to
Apr 30 13:09:34 <XRevan86>	A false dilemma.
Apr 30 13:10:00 <mp_en_viaje>	money has more functions than that schestowitz ; having a little money is mostly about consumption ; but having a lot of money is mostly about directing the activity of the other humans.
Apr 30 13:10:43 <XRevan86>	So, governing power.
Apr 30 13:10:56 <mp_en_viaje>	i don't intend to have kids either ; but even if i impregnated my entire harem so each girl's pregnant each year from now on, i'd make ~no difference towards my billions.
Apr 30 13:11:32 <mp_en_viaje>	nor would i leave the kids any of it. let them fucking earn their own, what.
Apr 30 13:11:33 <schestowitz>	how old are you btw?
Apr 30 13:11:37 <schestowitz>	(to mp_en_viaje)
Apr 30 13:11:38 <mp_en_viaje>	bout 40.
Apr 30 13:12:17 <schestowitz>	37 myself
Apr 30 13:12:25 <mp_en_viaje>	cheers.
Apr 30 13:12:32 <schestowitz>	anyway, that's like halfway
Apr 30 13:12:38 <mp_en_viaje>	halfway what ?
Apr 30 13:12:47 <schestowitz>	with the world getting harsher economically
Apr 30 13:13:02 <schestowitz>	expected lifespan for people in Europe
Apr 30 13:13:22 <mp_en_viaje>	i mostly live in costa rica ; but that aside, i spent most of my youth doubting i'll make it to 25
Apr 30 13:13:25 <schestowitz>	I often laugh at politicians
Apr 30 13:13:29 <mp_en_viaje>	so imo it's more like time-and-a-half.
Apr 30 13:13:42 <schestowitz>	who draw up policy for everyone when they have less than 10 years left to live
Apr 30 13:14:09 <mp_en_viaje>	i often laught at females who think they're "public persons" but never stood nude before a camera.
Apr 30 13:14:41 <mp_en_viaje>	there's a lot of this "i'm so insecure i gotta pester people".
Apr 30 13:14:57 <XRevan86>	Russian politicians figured the best pension time is a few years after the average expected life expectancy.
Apr 30 13:17:02 <schestowitz>	:-)
Apr 30 13:17:21 <schestowitz>	don't worry, the church says God will reard your in  Heaven
Apr 30 13:17:27 <schestowitz>	*reward
Apr 30 13:17:31 <schestowitz>	*you
Apr 30 13:17:54 <schestowitz>	if you die before your pension, it's actually a blessing. Fast lane to heaven, no waiting in line
Apr 30 13:20:56 <mp_en_viaje>	heh.
Apr 30 13:24:34 <mp_en_viaje>	oh, anyone here know christos ballas ? kept a site, "thelastphyschiatrist"
Apr 30 13:25:34 -viera/#techrights-	Tux Machines: Graphics: OpenBLAS, Mesa, OpenCL http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/123368 [https://pleroma.site/objects/bef0d097-01ca-47e5-8347-d7afbd6f8949]
Apr 30 13:27:39 <mp_en_viaje>	anyway, i'll be taking off now ; before i go : schestowitz i suppose all the systems development around ada going on in tmsr will probably interest you, judging by your professional field.
Apr 30 13:28:14 <schestowitz>	which is it?
Apr 30 13:28:22 <schestowitz>	I work in medical imaging etc.
Apr 30 13:28:49 <XRevan86>	mp_en_viaje: As I understood it, you're critical of the idea of a socialist state. Why?
Apr 30 13:28:50 <schestowitz>	(not full time because of techrights etc.)
Apr 30 13:29:39 <mp_en_viaje>	XRevan86, because any group ever confronts a simple dilemma : either hang the common man to support the exceptional man, or else hang the exceptional man to support the common man. as i don't believe the common man has any rights, i don't abide the contrary ideology.
Apr 30 13:30:04 <mp_en_viaje>	schestowitz, "computing stack that works reliably and predictably", let's say.
Apr 30 13:30:28 <XRevan86>	mp_en_viaje: And I always felt that my having no rights as a common man is a bug than a feature.
Apr 30 13:30:37 <mp_en_viaje>	no, it's a feature.
Apr 30 13:31:06 *	XRevan86 will vote for Putin from now on.
Apr 30 13:31:25 <mp_en_viaje>	for that matter, common man even having a voice is a rather exceptional historic accident. 
Apr 30 13:31:35 <schestowitz>	[12:29] <mp_en_viaje> schestowitz, "computing stack that works reliably and predictably", let's say.
Apr 30 13:31:39 <schestowitz>	we lost that mostly
Apr 30 13:31:50 <mp_en_viaje>	well, part of what the republic's doing is reconstructing it.
Apr 30 13:31:54 <schestowitz>	even Linux is compromised now
Apr 30 13:31:56 <mp_en_viaje>	hence cuntoo etc.
Apr 30 13:31:58 <mp_en_viaje>	no, i know.
Apr 30 13:32:35 <XRevan86>	mp_en_viaje: But seriously, common man is many and they want to be included.
Apr 30 13:32:56 <mp_en_viaje>	not that it matters.
Apr 30 13:33:18 <mp_en_viaje>	as the old adage goes, "want in one hand and piss in the other, see which fills first"
Apr 30 13:33:23 <schestowitz>	https://joindiaspora.com/posts/14736608#348ddce04a1f01373c802986f53bbfc6
Apr 30 13:33:25 -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-	@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Greg K-H (Microsoft/Novell, then #zemlinpac ): OK, #drm , come to #linux https://github.com/GalliumOS/linux/commit/f699f9f9ac87f0c774cbf3b9d4b8f336221f3a88
Apr 30 13:33:26 -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-	-> Merge tag 'topic/mei-hdcp-2019-02-26' of git://anongit.freedesktop.or… · GalliumOS/linux@f699f9f · GitHub
Apr 30 13:34:06 <mp_en_viaje>	this "many" thing briefly carried some water because industrial revolution briefly made all hands useful, so we ended up with concepts such as "employment" etcetera.
Apr 30 13:34:16 <mp_en_viaje>	this is nonsense, and its existence as brief as any other algae bloom.
Apr 30 13:34:34 <mp_en_viaje>	most hands are not at all useful, which is why feudalism is the stable mode of social organisation.
Apr 30 13:35:59 -viera/#techrights-	Tux Machines: Fedora 30 brings immense quality of life improvements to Linux on the desktop http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/123367 [https://pleroma.site/objects/a70b9120-a865-4869-801f-1406bafc6c28]
Apr 30 13:36:27 <mp_en_viaje>	schestowitz, linux lost all appeal within the republican forum with that idiotic "rule of conduct" or w/e bs. we don't tolerate femstate bullshit.
Apr 30 13:37:26 <XRevan86>	mp_en_viaje: The world won't be able to progress on a select few alone.
Apr 30 13:37:26 <schestowitz>	who is we and this republican forum?
Apr 30 13:37:35 <schestowitz>	btw, the coc isn't about females
Apr 30 13:37:41 <mp_en_viaje>	XRevan86, history is the story of the life of great men, and naught else. as per carlyle etc.
Apr 30 13:37:44 <schestowitz>	corporate controlled disguised using minorities
Apr 30 13:37:55 <schestowitz>	in soft dev females are a minority
Apr 30 13:38:01 <mp_en_viaje>	there's been 0 progress since the prussians came up with "pensions" and the rest of the inept bs trying to whip the plebs into a state-army.
Apr 30 13:38:11 <XRevan86>	mp_en_viaje: If history is selective, doesn't mean that nothing else happened at all.
Apr 30 13:38:12 <mp_en_viaje>	schestowitz, i'm aware.
Apr 30 13:38:51 <mp_en_viaje>	"we" is the most serene republic, http://trilema.com/2016/cia-factbook-the-most-serene-republic/
Apr 30 13:38:53 -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-	CIA Factbook : The Most Serene Republic on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu.
Apr 30 13:39:04 <mp_en_viaje>	the forum's mostly over at #trilema.
Apr 30 13:39:04 *	mmu_man (~revol@vaf26-2-82-244-111-82.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #techrights
Apr 30 13:39:15 <schestowitz>	ok...
Apr 30 13:39:30 <schestowitz>	well, looks anything but serene if there's sextortio
Apr 30 13:39:33 <schestowitz>	*n
Apr 30 13:39:52 <mp_en_viaje>	wth is a sextortion ?
Apr 30 13:40:02 <mp_en_viaje>	"serene" is simply the attribute of sovereignity, that's what you call a sovereign.
Apr 30 13:40:48 <XRevan86>	mp_en_viaje: Sounds ancap'ish
Apr 30 13:41:03 <mp_en_viaje>	XRevan86, "the most serene republic of bitcoin".
Apr 30 13:41:19 <XRevan86>	mp_en_viaje: So, an anarcho-capitalist community around cryptocurrency?
Apr 30 13:41:30 <mp_en_viaje>	well,no. the world's only sovereign.
Apr 30 13:41:37 -viera/#techrights-	Tux Machines: Fedora: Fedora 29, Test Day, syslog-ng in Red Hat Summit http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/123369 [https://pleroma.site/objects/48cb96ec-b90e-41a8-8c2f-d5a953886696]
Apr 30 13:42:24 *	SopaXorzTaker (~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker) has joined #techrights
Apr 30 13:42:29 <XRevan86>	mp_en_viaje: That's cryptic.
Apr 30 13:42:34 <mp_en_viaje>	why ? 
Apr 30 13:43:10 <XRevan86>	mp_en_viaje: Clearly you're working with your own definition of "sovereign".
Apr 30 13:43:16 <mp_en_viaje>	it's simply the only entity that needs no one's permission, but whose permission any other entity needs.
Apr 30 13:43:23 <mp_en_viaje>	what's yours ?
Apr 30 13:43:38 <XRevan86>	mp_en_viaje: I don't need its permission though.
Apr 30 13:43:43 <mp_en_viaje>	"owner of all things", whatever you work with, they all reduce to the same.
Apr 30 13:43:46 <XRevan86>	and I'm in the world
Apr 30 13:43:47 <mp_en_viaje>	of course you do.
Apr 30 13:43:58 <mp_en_viaje>	looky, pretense to the contrary doesn't enact reality. 
Apr 30 13:44:33 <XRevan86>	mp_en_viaje: Well, it is you who pretend to have power over everyone though %).
Apr 30 13:44:52 <mp_en_viaje>	this'd be obviously enough a matter of ideological investment.
Apr 30 13:45:20 <mp_en_viaje>	in the end, this is exactly what nationality is : the citizenry sees the truth in the rights of the state ; the barbarians outside the borders pretend otherwise.
Apr 30 13:45:25 <schestowitz>	going against the world is too hard
Apr 30 13:45:28 <XRevan86>	But it is nice to finally meet one of the reptiloids of ZOG :D.
Apr 30 13:45:34 <mp_en_viaje>	schestowitz, so far it's mostly been too much fun.
Apr 30 13:45:42 <schestowitz>	you are better off changing it, little by little, for the better
Apr 30 13:45:54 <mp_en_viaje>	this is the common wisdom, but so far not my experience.
Apr 30 13:46:20 <schestowitz>	it's harder
Apr 30 13:46:27 <schestowitz>	but there's more of "us" than "them"
Apr 30 13:46:34 <schestowitz>	you can discredit their social constructs
Apr 30 13:46:36 <mp_en_viaje>	i suspect this is true.
Apr 30 13:46:43 <mp_en_viaje>	ah, that part's been working wonderfully.
Apr 30 13:46:50 <schestowitz>	which weakens their grip over everyone, as should be the case...
Apr 30 13:46:59 <mp_en_viaje>	aaanyways, we'll have to table this discussion for a later date, ima go hang out with the girls.
Apr 30 13:47:13 <mp_en_viaje>	cheers.