▁▁▁⏐︎▁▁ 6146
asciilifeform: iirc even theo gave up on shoehorning his kernel into ancient archs.
BingoBoingo: 3.? is when theo gave up on 68k
asciilifeform: i think the smallest unixlike box i currently have, is a pic32 (mips, little endian) , and it's running... sysv
asciilifeform: ( byproduct of early cardanoism )
billymg: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-04#1869210 << yup. Mocky: if this ever becomes a need for you, i'd be more than happy to help ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-11-04 18:03 mircea_popescu: actually i bet you the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-02#1868721 fellow would love nothing more than to do a template design for hire.
billymg: and at this point i'm just trying to build my reputation so wouldn't be looking for anything beyond a fair rating
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what flipped is that i'm not about to build magic numbers into the s.mg code process.
mircea_popescu: that can read "80 cols plox what is this" all it wants, it runs into "this is a key, what are you going to do about it, use 80 cols keys" ?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i'm willing to bet there's something grossly misconfigured ; item doesn't have memory issues normally.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: It was on the defaults. 2 GB rockchip and while not a trilema sized blog, bigger than most on mp-wp
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-04#1869361 << ~none. let the heroes participate by bringing their obscura into the fold. ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2018-11-04 23:55 asciilifeform: at some point i'ma get around to trimming the kernel. how many of these do we actually want ?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo ps aux | grep mysqld says what ?
mircea_popescu: (5th column, the virtual memory allocated, is the point of interest)
BingoBoingo: 1261 0.0 0.0 2248 456 pts/0 S+ 01:30 0:00 grep --colour=auto mysqld
mircea_popescu: why do you think ram is the problem then ?!
BingoBoingo: I can't keep it alive
mircea_popescu: anyway, you might find https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~matt-day32/mysql-tuning-primer/trunk/view/head:/tuning-primer.sh helpful (run AFTER you've read it and satisfied self it's not malicious).
BingoBoingo: The situation is it will have to wait until after Pizarro statement.
mircea_popescu: at your leisure.
BingoBoingo: I keep getting distracted by not quite fixes that let the thing show a dashboard for one page load, as much as I would like it to be top of my list it can't today
BingoBoingo: until then I can't even blog my recent conversion to beach running
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-05#1869384 << is what i was thinking. and i'm going for even moar radical snippetysnip, i.e. of ALL iron that nobody in l1 has / can be arsed to muster, not simply cpu archs. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-11-05 01:26 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-04#1869361 << ~none. let the heroes participate by bringing their obscura into the fold.
asciilifeform: i dun have e.g. 'hauppauge tv card' and dun intend to dig in junkyard for one just to test driver.
asciilifeform: anybody who finds that he cannot live without one, is welcome to backport the kernelade for it with ~own~ hands, and present signed vpatch.
asciilifeform: ditto s390, though if somebody insists on ibm dinosaur in his tmsr workflow i'ma be curious re wtf,wai
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: would like to get sense of what is thought 'obscura' tho, my obscura may or may not be trinque's obscura, etc.
asciilifeform: optimally , by the time the scissors actually come out, there'll be concretes in the l0gz, of the form of 'hands off my $scsicard, motherfuckers'
mircea_popescu: odds are we'll find out in the shape of error reports.
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/wniiv << meanwhile in vintage lulz. d00d built wankatron with spoon in arse , plugged into mains , with neon lamp to reduce 220v , or so he thought.. it shorted.
mircea_popescu: "I’ve never before had coffee that good. It actually hurts now to drink the instant coffee I have back at my room." << non-us coffee apparently is great generally.
mircea_popescu: http://mocky.org/Qatar-Financial-Center/ <<< top fucking keks. really, arab don't keep appointment ?! this is some next level shit, never heard of it b4. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: "I guess you could say they identify as bikers." bwajuaja ok, this is entertaining lol
Mocky: good morning mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: heya mockster
mircea_popescu: ajahjaha check it out, "haymasfuturo" qatar version! jesus these people.
Mocky: re bikers, some of these guys seem so happy to just *have* the bike. i have neighbor who fires his up every 3rd day and twists the throttle for 5 minutes while it sits. but maybe it's to scare all the cats away
mircea_popescu: well, i'd say i'm edified.
mircea_popescu: i still think you should http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-03#1869171 as a parting shot ; not because i expect anything besides the "meet mr al-schmukwari at 8am", but because why not let the remnant of usg.blue congratulate itself on "succeeding" ? let some schmuck "earn" a bonus, what's it to you or me. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-11-03 22:38 mircea_popescu: Mocky so i guess next step is make an appointment with their minister of technology, industry, or whatever the fuck, explain to the secretarial overseer you end up seeing that the republic is in principle willing to do some tech transfer help them become a real country, exchange confused nods and handshakes and set the bozo bit on the ball of faux carpeting yarn pretending to be a country ?
Mocky: what do you mean by tech transfer?
Mocky: like your computers are shitty but you could remedy that?
mircea_popescu: Mocky like you could build a chip foundry we man and train. the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1865898 item ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-10-25 15:44 mircea_popescu: now, a 4096 bit native fpga, specifically for rsa-ing and rsa-likes-ing, THAT might be very useful, because there the s-o-d item is major win.
Mocky: ok
mircea_popescu: why don't they fab chips anyway ? got plenty of sand yes ?
mircea_popescu: what, the filipino/indonesians/etc are better in the brain or what ?
mircea_popescu: do you understand what the item in question is, given as example ? would like likbez ?
Mocky: I think I understand but the more examples the better
mircea_popescu: examples ?
mircea_popescu: tell me, what's a bus ?
Mocky: a data pathway
mircea_popescu: that's no answer.
mircea_popescu: how do you distinguish a bus from a cat5 cable ?
Mocky: it's on a board, between chips
mircea_popescu: your definitions are terrible.
mircea_popescu: there's a bus in the basement of the building you're now, for electricity.
mircea_popescu: https://www.caplinq.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/image054.jpg < item
Mocky: ok
mircea_popescu: a direct line is a bus, see. if you switch it's a switched line, if you don't switch it's a bus line. if you packet it's "a data pathway".
mircea_popescu: does this resonate with any familiarity in ye olde phracking and telco or nothing there to resonate with ? ☟︎
Mocky: yes it does
mircea_popescu: cool. now what's a register ?
Mocky: a named local storage location
mircea_popescu: not at all.
mircea_popescu: a register is the processor byte.
mircea_popescu: do you see why its width would beneifically match the bus width ?
Mocky: operands have to be fetched and results stored along the bus before and after each processor op
mircea_popescu: well no, if they are different witdths you have to... switch
mircea_popescu: the less switrches the cheaper, faster, better etc.
mircea_popescu: right ?
Mocky: i'm trying to see it
mircea_popescu: if your bus pipes in stuff at 32 bits/cycle and your registers are 64 bits, you have to distinguish two kinds of cycles.
mircea_popescu: if instead registers are 16 bits, you have to distinguish two kinds of registers.
Mocky: like a left and right register?
mircea_popescu: or up and down or we
Mocky: ok
mircea_popescu: 1st and 2nd portions of a full cycle, 1st and 2nd portions of a full register etc.
Mocky: i see it
mircea_popescu: what ELSE would the register width beneficially match ?
Mocky: the operand size for cpu instructions
mircea_popescu: not at all.
mircea_popescu: that's a list, you don't care.
mircea_popescu: if you need 5 or 56 instructions makes 0 diff.
mircea_popescu: oh oh, wait, maybe i misread. "the operand", wtf does that mean here ?
Mocky: the unit size of memory addresses
mircea_popescu: why ?
Mocky: same thing on the other end of the bus
mircea_popescu: a yeah, that's right. you mewan ~the actual~ byte size of the data. yes ? its native size ?
Mocky: if a fetch from memory grabs 32 bits, and the data is 32 bits on the memory side and the register side then you don't need the switch
mircea_popescu: nah, that's not it. data, what your processor will work with, also has a NATIVE byte.
mircea_popescu: i know thios is unlikely a notion, because the crud of voip or divx or w/e could seemingly have any bytness. however think ... displays have 32 bit color byteness... and
Mocky: oh, that's what i meant by operand size, the unit the processor is woking with
mircea_popescu: importantly... what's the byteness of rsa ?
Mocky: I don't know rsa maths well enough to say
mircea_popescu: well, we use 4096 bit keys, therefore as asciilifeform well points out, the native byte of rsa is 8192.
mircea_popescu: now, what's commercial processors bus and register width ?
Mocky: 64 bit bus and iirc 32 bit registers, typically
mircea_popescu: right-o.
mircea_popescu: and so in order to rsa on a commercial processor, you gotta do a mountain of switching
Mocky: right
mircea_popescu: which, because of the nature of crypto ops in the first pace, is very fucking finnicky... switching can leak data.
mircea_popescu: hence the whole effort in ffa, which is nothing else and nothing besides a switching harness for 64 bit cpu so it doesn't leak data while switching it for a 8192 native byte.
mircea_popescu: now, do you see how these magic numbers are nothing else, and if producer wants he can make 19, 4435 or whatever bus and register cpus FOR THE SAME COST ? ☟︎
Mocky: well power of 2 values i see
mircea_popescu: right. now, do you see how data-native byteness processor made on 1995s tech would beat the shit off inconveniently byted poroessor made yesterday, for the specific application in question ?
Mocky: i do
mircea_popescu: why does there not exist a rsa-sized specialist processor widely available now ?
Mocky: i can't think of a good why not
mircea_popescu: the answer you're looking for is "because confederacy of dunces".
mircea_popescu: now... why is qatar having political problems atm ?
Mocky: nominally because neighbors claim 'allowed terrorist donations' but i don't know the actual why
mircea_popescu: also because confederacy of dunces, perhaps ? the EXACT SAME usg.blue dunces, actually ?
mircea_popescu: do you see why the man besieged by rats and the horse besieged by rats may perhaps make what's called "a couple made in heaven" ?
Mocky: yes
mircea_popescu: now, what's an asic ?
Mocky: hardware baked with a specific algo, not generall purpose
mircea_popescu: keks
mircea_popescu: let's just say it's playdo cpu, right ? you can cut here and there and get various basic units working together.
mircea_popescu: now, perhaps this also could be made in such a way as to data byteness ?
mircea_popescu: point being, there's a LOT they could do to be useful, first of all to themselves. dja see it ?
Mocky: yes
mircea_popescu: so that's the angle.
mircea_popescu: i clearly recall ceausescu's lament back in the 70s, "they sell us today's tech at high prices, because they have tomorrow's lined up. but what can we do?"
mircea_popescu: this is their one shot to buy tomorrow's. whether they have the sense... ceausescu never had the chance.
Mocky: i see it
mircea_popescu: well congrats on surviving half hour of powerhosing. few do.
Mocky: the mp hot seat
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-04#1869273 - a config file seems the better choice, yes; I'll add it to the list to move the keys to a config file and update the tests to read from config file; that should actually meet asciilifeform's requirements too since the code will not contain the >80cols lines (although the config files will, of course) ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2018-11-04 23:10 mircea_popescu: diana_coman imo such items belong in a config file then. though he prolly wants the ~config~ file to also be "human readable" by which he means hard-paged at 80 cols like for idiots. because there's no such thing as a terminal, nor user settings, and i gotta format my text in a way that's aware of his dumb terminal. and he thinks this acceptable, somehow, that at the time i write i must bear in mind how he'll later read.
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-05#1869406 -> the way I read this was that arab did not consider that as appointment, more like audience granted -perhaps, if allah finds time for it - to lowlife sort of thing ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-11-05 04:47 mircea_popescu: http://mocky.org/Qatar-Financial-Center/ <<< top fucking keks. really, arab don't keep appointment ?! this is some next level shit, never heard of it b4.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman seems the reasonable available goat-and-cabbage pacifier
asciilifeform watched in horror as the cabbage ate teh wolf, last time he played w+g+c
diana_coman: ahahhaha, that's a lousy wolf
asciilifeform: can't always source grade a+ wolf...
mircea_popescu: was this a racoon ?
asciilifeform: nah ( my pest control algo for those actually, believe or not , worked, 8 down and none seen lately )
mircea_popescu: did you shoot them or what was it ?
asciilifeform: rather, was a gnarly mathe-deadend.
mircea_popescu: speaking of cabbage-ate-wolf, yest @bbq had juvenile duck stare down the shit out of adult pitbulls.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: shot with , roughly, the item from conan doyle's 'the empty house'
mircea_popescu: cuz they're all shy and "waht the FUCK is this then" and the duck's like FUCK YOU MY GRANNY WAS A VELOCIRAPTOR!
asciilifeform: lol
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, that sounds close to "and then goat ate the wolf"
mircea_popescu: i guess at that...
mircea_popescu: aaand in other news of only apparent alf interest, i'm in talks with... a chick from moscow.
mircea_popescu: moscow IDAHO. this is a thing now, fucking paris, texas wan't good enough for these people. they gotta have a moscow also.
asciilifeform: lol!!
asciilifeform: they have a rome in illinois, a odessa in texas, etc so wainot
diana_coman: lol, I never quite understood wtf it is with US that they can't even come up with new names for places or what
mircea_popescu: and if they try to "fucker, get your own names" it's mittikittegoongamooga or w/e the fuck the canadians call things
asciilifeform: at least the had the sense to make newyork prefixed
diana_coman: wounded knee!
asciilifeform: rather than york
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's a york.
asciilifeform: is there, i missed
asciilifeform: but not surprising. i think they hashcollided whole planet at this point.
mircea_popescu: https://www.yorkcity.org/
asciilifeform: ha.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-05#1869478 << 1 nitpick -- not quite same cost, the size of the adder, barrel shifter, and esp. -- multer, grow with the cube of the reg bitness ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-11-05 06:16 mircea_popescu: now, do you see how these magic numbers are nothing else, and if producer wants he can make 19, 4435 or whatever bus and register cpus FOR THE SAME COST ?
mircea_popescu: same cost as in, fixed cost of the machinery making them
asciilifeform: my orig observation was that this is a less stupid use of die space than e.g tlb cache and the other liquishit x86 is packed with 'so win10 faster'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for so long as you can fit in $process -- yes entirely same
mircea_popescu: right. and his bitness doesn't enter into it, though i didn't pick it up. literally, prime-count bus same cost.
mircea_popescu: and for that matter crt bitness is 24 not 32, but apparently nobody cared enough to insist on the exact magic number
mircea_popescu: and so on.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: depending how you cut it, varies . e.g. my 'eizo' has a 'byteness' of 14 bits ( per channel )
asciilifeform: for a 'wordness of' 42
mircea_popescu: right.
mircea_popescu: anyways, more in the general, there's a LOT of merit to dennis hopper's monologue in http://trilema.com/2013/true-romance-tarantino-cut/ : "he didn't think to tell me... and i didn't think to ask".
mircea_popescu: MOST of issues in civilised (which strictly means white) world are resolved by that method.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in weblulz, https://findcrypto.net/bitcoin/bitcoin-ever-wondered-what-the-hell-was-wrong-with-that-max-keiser-guy-this-pretty-much-explains-it/
mircea_popescu: because what could be better than starting one of these 2008-style spamsites, in 2018 ?
mircea_popescu: NICHE!!!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i get pingbacks from these nonstop. tho more often they're shannonized 'miner' sites
mircea_popescu: aha.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, apropos de nothing : Jean van Heijenoort is an interesting character, not because of his youthful association with one of the inconsequential marx-zigglers burlesque and slapstick acts of the early 20th century, but because of his later life as a historian of what could only properly be called "the end of nations as an intellectual construct".
mircea_popescu: his "source book" is practically speaking the last time one had to collect and translate previously uncollected and untranslated worldbreakers.
asciilifeform: apropos of upstack -- last wk asciilifeform did the ~yearly dig re 'does anyone actually sell fpga big enuff to demo 8192b-arithmetizer inside, fully unrolled' and turns out that yes (as of 6mo ago)
asciilifeform: ( naturally it's the big-fpga monopolist, xilinx . but it's there. )
asciilifeform: they offer a half-mil. LUT thing. (can fit, e.g., orig 'pentium', say.)
Mocky: how much?
asciilifeform: Mocky: coupla thou. usd
asciilifeform: afaik they're ~only~ used for asic dev, hence the 'we charge weight in diamonds'
asciilifeform: but they're actually in my parts houses' catalogues.
Mocky: speaking of weight in diamnonds, I find the guy I should be talking to here: Hassan Al-Sayed
Mocky: Assistant Undersecretary, Information Technology
asciilifeform: Mocky: sounds like exactly what mircea_popescu was speaking of. see if allah wills that he shows up to his desk.. ☟︎
Mocky: went down to the ministry of transportation and communitications today to book an appointment. they told me he wasn't at that building but the other ministry building
asciilifeform: 'your princess is in another castle'(tm)(r) eh ☟︎
Mocky: at the other building, they told me he's at commercial bank plaza (home of servcorp coworks)
Mocky: i didn't ahve time to make it over there before ministry closes at 2pm, sigh
Mocky: i'm also skeptical that he's there. i was told by 8 20-something arabs lounging around the lobby desk bored. they had to call over the 9th who was the only one who could speak broken english
Mocky: felt like "yeah he's a mile down the road, can't miss it"
Mocky: I expect to work the phones to find this guy
Mocky: anyway, i'm off to this DAO / blockchain meetup. couldnt' scare up a camera crew so I guess i'll have to film myself
mircea_popescu: not the same thing ~at all~ however. for one thing, it comes with the xilinx shitstack. for the other, it's a sack large enough to contain a car. we're talking about the actual car.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-05#1869566 << top fucking keks over here. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-11-05 15:05 asciilifeform: 'your princess is in another castle'(tm)(r) eh
mircea_popescu: Mocky how are you enjoying the emissary extraordinary and plenipotentiary gig btw ? ☟︎
mod6: mornin'
mod6: !Q later tell jurov http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-04#1869263 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-11-04 21:49 mod6: jurov: go ahead and Xcancel your auction #1005, and plz to bid on mine (#1006)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: didn't say it was 'same thing', yes it comes with the grandfather of all shitstacks (20+GB of liquishit) . it's for simulating designs, not for deploying ( why wouldja deploy anyffing on such a thing, it makes cluster of pc look vehehery cheap and 'opensores'y by comparison )
mircea_popescu: right.
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=797 << ancient asciilifeform article series re: a much older device of this type.
asciilifeform: ( was: 'XC5VLX50' , 7.2k 'slices' x 4 LUTs (& 4 flipflops) ea., net 28800 LUTs & equal # of flipflops. )
asciilifeform: approx 4x the logic carpet of the fattest ice40, for comparison.
asciilifeform: not directly comparable, tho, 'virtex' also had various heterogeneous parts, e.g. cascadable shift registers, adders, etc. inside.
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/11/india-rolls-out-nuclear-ballistic-missile-submarine/ << Qntra - India Rolls Out Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine
asciilifeform: ( for 'real-life' comparison -- the miniature XC9572XL item in http://btcbase.org/patches/fg-genesis#selection-297.16-297.24 , gives 72 LUTs and nuffin else , of which FG uses all but 1 )
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i distinctly recall that thing being advertised in early 2000s
asciilifeform: the boat, i mean
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Apparently they have been bumping their heads against various issues for 30+ years trying not to Argentina themselves
BingoBoingo: But (current year) is the year it floats
mircea_popescu: or the year they really really need its posture as a float be credible, seeing how they also want a chunk of china's sea.
mircea_popescu: in other news, i've been sitting here all morning pondering whether inuit fucker franz boas or mme blavatsky dewey truly deserves the "intellectual father of pantsuit" title.
mircea_popescu: amusingly enough, there's actually two distinguishable pantsuit trends to this day, a mystagogical cvasi-elitism spawned from boas and a mechanicistic mammie-ism visibly spawned off dewey. ☟︎
BingoBoingo: I am inclined to lean toward Dewey cribbing from the pop culture hegelians. Not a father so much as the theiving sad sack from the "I made this" meme series
mircea_popescu: (alf's "robohitler" mostly exists as alf's own mind's reinterpretation of the boas-pantsuit ; cargo cultish lulz (say in the "artificial intelligence" vein to pick but one of many examples) usually come from the dewey-pantsuit.)
BingoBoingo: Dewey's mammie-ism is just distilling the pop culture hegelians who cam before him
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo just about, yeah!
mircea_popescu: well yes, nobody's seriously contemplating the "ummim an' thurimm" of ye olde paris-moscow-rome-etcetera actually DOING anything. they're just whatever the subliterate peasantry remembers from the old world almanacs.
BingoBoingo did do two year of graduate study at SIU when their department still had the old house full of photocopies they dubbed "The Center For Dewey Studies"
BingoBoingo: The transition to library school where Dewey mean a completely different person lead to some confusion in conversations, especially in Missouri where Truman defeated yet another different Dewey
mircea_popescu: haha i bet.
mircea_popescu: anyway, it's fucking lulzy to me how the dumb shit always comes back to "psychic unity of mankind" nonsense.
mircea_popescu: no fucker, WE ARE NOT ALL THE SAME ONE.
mircea_popescu: jesus christ how hard is it to not be three years old anymore already.
mircea_popescu: ah, speaking of young uns / http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-05#1869435 : hey Mocky, did http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-18#1863573 coallesce into something like "oh, herder" ? or did it come entirely outta left field ? ☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-11-05 05:57 mircea_popescu: does this resonate with any familiarity in ye olde phracking and telco or nothing there to resonate with ?
a111: Logged on 2018-10-18 18:51 mircea_popescu: Mocky i actually distinguish between smarts (the reductive ability, that powers "i suspect there's no such thing as intelligence", and typified perhaps best by d. kyon) and "intelligence" (the constructive ability, that powers "more loc, more tech, more future", and typified perhaps best by "fm-2030" ).
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> anyway, it's fucking lulzy to me how the dumb shit always comes back to "psychic unity of mankind" nonsense. << Well, in this case I don't see how Hegel isn't the daddy
mircea_popescu: cuz any 3yo is the same exact daddy of THAT.
BingoBoingo: Let's call up Maury and get that daytime tv paternity testing
mircea_popescu: kek
BingoBoingo: Anyways, suppose someone gets a time machine and kills baby Hegel. If Marx is still cribbing from someone in "the conversation" does he go to Fichte instead? Does drunk Steve Bannon arrive a century and a half too soon?
BingoBoingo: And in local news... the coming months will determine which one of these two the transcendental Spirit of Great Again will bless https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/llego-sartori-y-se-hizo-el-misterioso-sobre-su-posible-candidatura-les-prometo-que-van-a-estar-al-tanto--201811513835 https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/partido-de-la-gente-el-juvenil-de-la-politica-que-no-termina-de-afianzarse-20181155038
asciilifeform: in other noose, yet another http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-30#1867757 found : >>> ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2018-10-30 18:15 asciilifeform: in unrelated minor lulz, discovered yet another http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865517 :
asciilifeform: this makes for: 5 known specimens
jurov: !Xcancel 1005
auctionbot: Sell order # 1005 was cancelled by jurov
mod6: nice, thanks jurov
mod6: asciilifeform: hmm, interesting
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-05#1869503 -> and done; asciilifeform and anyone else requiring strictly 80 cols - I've updated the post with a .vpatch to read the keys from file and thus keep them out of the fully-80-cols-now code itself: http://ossasepia.com/2018/11/04/smg-comms-chapter-6-packing-and-unpacking-rsa/#selection-157.0-159.591 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-11-05 09:56 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-04#1869273 - a config file seems the better choice, yes; I'll add it to the list to move the keys to a config file and update the tests to read from config file; that should actually meet asciilifeform's requirements too since the code will not contain the >80cols lines (although the config files will, of course)
asciilifeform: neato, ty diana_coman
jurov: !Xbid 1006 .31bn
auctionbot: Buy order # 1006: 2k wFF Heard: .31bn from jurov. Ending: 2018-11-08 13:48:41.550007 UTC (79 hours 58 mins)
mod6: o7
Mocky: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-05#1869576 >> I like it ok. I see now that I artificially capped my quality of life here by getting too-cheap accommodations. And that got amplified by not having power and internet anywhere else. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-11-05 15:15 mircea_popescu: Mocky how are you enjoying the emissary extraordinary and plenipotentiary gig btw ?
Mocky: just got back from blockchain event. I told them their ideas of humanity 3.0 governed by blockchain smart contracts was a delusion. And then critcized both the ethereum-roll-backers and the ethereum-continue-with-broken-shit
Mocky: my poor self video skills yielded only my chin basically!
Mocky: but jokes on me, nobody got ruffled feathers because they weren't advocating daos, just raising awareness! starting the conversation! they agreed with me!
BingoBoingo: lol
Mocky: guy said blockchain was gonna fix fake news, it told him his interpretation of the "DAO hack and ether theft" was the fake news
Mocky: but when I watch it back I see that I softened my criticisms a lot
asciilifeform: * amstan_ is now known as amstan << lol! that d00d is still here, i can't properly picture why
asciilifeform: ( prolly is a http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-03#1869074 ) ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-11-03 15:04 mircea_popescu: there he sits, remote in hand, "checking to see if there's anything interesting on the tv". are we ready to entertain him yet ? or does he come back later ?
BingoBoingo: <Mocky> but jokes on me, nobody got ruffled feathers because they weren't advocating daos, just raising awareness! starting the conversation! they agreed with me! << It's what orcs do. How much hashish do you estimate the other attendees ate prior to showing up?
Mocky: it was half white dudes in suits with british accents who looked pretty straight laced
BingoBoingo: So, quite a bit
mircea_popescu: Mocky somewhat not surprised. orcs generally take such positions
mircea_popescu: and nothing wrong with diplomat being diplomatic.
bvt: hello. i had to delay making a genesis of base64 lib, will try to finish tomorrow.
bvt: found and unexpected problem that specialization of Ada.Sequential_IO conflicts with Restriction(No_Unchecked_Access) in the test applications. ☟︎
bvt: i had a look in the .ali file, where presumably list of dependencies for a compiled .adb file is stored, but grep would find nothing in the dependencies
bvt: in the end, just disabled the restriction.
asciilifeform: bvt: which gnat are you using ? i've never observed any such thing ( and i use the same restriction, http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch11_tuning_and_api/tree/ffa/libffa/restrict.adc#L76 , ~with~ sequential i/o, http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch11_tuning_and_api/tree/ffa/ffacalc/ffa_rng.adb#L49 )
bvt: i used gnat 2017. will test ffa rng code and see if it works out.
diana_coman: I just checked and I can confirm too: that restriction is fine here while using Ada.Sequential_IO
diana_coman: bvt, is that adacore's gnat?
bvt: that is gnat 2017 with ave1's patches (i.e. musltronic)
bvt: but yes, it is adacore -- not the default sad gcc implementation
diana_coman: hm, weird; now I'm really curious if you get the same complaint with asciilifeform's ffa (or my smg comms for that matter)
bvt: just tested ffa-8 where rng was introduced -- it works fine. would be trying to understand what is wrong with my code, then
mircea_popescu: bvt what is the actual underlying that ended up summarized as http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-05#1869645 ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-11-05 20:39 bvt: found and unexpected problem that specialization of Ada.Sequential_IO conflicts with Restriction(No_Unchecked_Access) in the test applications.
bvt: i have structured the base64 tree as a directory with a library and example applications; only library is supposed to be compiled with restrictions, but some restrictions propagate to applications as well
bvt: No_Unchecked_Access is such restriction; i have tested a dummy application that does nothing but import and instantiate/specialize Ada.Sequential_IO instance for the datatype from base64 library. test application fails to compile, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Vwno8/?raw=true http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/qgs7E/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: hm
bvt: to clarify: base64 lib and applications are two separate gprbuild projects, -gnatec=base64/restrict.adc flag is only in the library project
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-05#1869615 << aaand anothr, ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2018-11-05 17:19 asciilifeform: in other noose, yet another http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-30#1867757 found : >>>
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/11/onboard-ssd-crypto-demonstrated-to-be-homeopathic-on-numerous-drives/ << Qntra - Onboard SSD Crypto Demonstrated To Be Homeopathic On Numerous Drives
asciilifeform: bahahaha
BingoBoingo: Ticking marketing checkboxes in sequence is its own reward
asciilifeform: there are exactly 0 genuine-crypto hdd on heathen market, you can take this to the bank.
asciilifeform: ( there's an unofficial fatwa against it, or sumthing )
asciilifeform: ( a la http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-28#1866864 ) ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-10-28 05:02 mircea_popescu: i have 0 expectation it will do anythingf besides create a lot of idle wank in "law enforcement" circles.
bvt: ok, i have figured out one solution to the problem (at least on gnat 2017): can't have Ada.Sequential_IO specialization in the GPR_Project'Main file
bvt: when i moved all ada.S_IO usage to a separate package/file, everything worked fine
bvt: otoh, when i added a single line 'package SIO is new Ada.Sequential_IO(Positive);' to ffa_calc.adb, it errored out during the compilation in the same way
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> there are exactly 0 genuine-crypto hdd on heathen market, you can take this to the bank. << It's the assumption so safe it's not worth verifying unless your marginal University is trolling for headlines
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: loox like they actually reversed some fw shitware, godly work
asciilifeform: ( of course it will be 'patched' and Officially Cured and Stop Asking Questions, Terrorist etc. shortly )
BingoBoingo: Well, hopefully they now that they have this niche that gets them headlines where they would otherwise have none, they keep pursuing it
BingoBoingo: In other heathen headlines: Apparently Llamas (as opposed to alpacas) might have the proteins necessary for a universal flu vaccine
asciilifeform: bvt: pretty weird. sounds like you uncovered some bugolade in the spirit of the earlier http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866266 . ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-10-26 02:14 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in gnat bugs : apparently ( and this is documented or mentioned nowhere ) : it is impossible to have a Ada.Finalization.Limited_Controlled type ANYWHERE inside a static library, unless it is generic all the way down (i.e. if the lib package is generic, any sub-packages must also be instantiated as generics )
asciilifeform: ( how gnat goes about enforcing the various restrictions, is largely black art at this point, the most i can say is that it seems to 'fail deadly', i.e. ultra-conservatively banhammers yer entire proggy if it fails to satisfy various obscure this-and-not-that conditions )
mircea_popescu: not at all clear to me wth is going on with that io stuff.
asciilifeform: really calls for a deep dig into the sores.
asciilifeform: overall pattern is frequently 'aha, you banned this ? goodluck using the standard lib nao, where we used it 9000 times'. saw this with e.g. the secondary stack liquishit.
BingoBoingo: For want of a LISP machine... we are on track for a fascist superMIPs with bignum coprocessor before the end of Trump's second term.
asciilifeform: i also suspect that my use of static linkage exposed buncha implementation strange
asciilifeform: ( who outside of us is linking statically... )
bvt: myeah, i solved it by maximally recreating the ffa project structure, so can't say i did anything informed by the 'first principles' there.
asciilifeform: bvt: it's structured the way it is, for a reason
asciilifeform did quite a bit of gnat sores archaeology dig
bvt: so far i had a look only in the runtime, but never looked into the gcc part
asciilifeform: bvt: i structured it so that the moar-restriction-y stuff ends up in static libs that get linked ~into~ the less-restrictiony demolade ( rather than vice-versa ), and so that the lib is statically linkable to begin with
asciilifeform: this pattern is not really escapable if yer using the restrictions
asciilifeform: some language features seem to break the 'encapsulability' , e.g. finalization
asciilifeform: i dun have a pill for this yet
asciilifeform: ( it's not a wholly useless thing, i dun have it in current ffa but my 1st draft used it to wipe all data on the stack erry time it goes out of scope )
asciilifeform: current ffa relies on the user/caller to wipe
asciilifeform: the standard, btw, does not say any such thing as 'using finalization breaks staticity', it seems to be 100% gnat breakage rather than 'standard forbids'
asciilifeform: ( for old c/cpp dogs : 'finalization' is analogous to 'destructor' )
bvt: i dunno if gnat people even tried to implement finalization for static libs/bins. i guess cpp supports destructors in statically linked code?
asciilifeform: bvt: of course it does, trb is 100% static-linked and has plenty
asciilifeform: gnat is entirely ok with finalization in lib so long as the finalized type aint exported ☟︎
asciilifeform: but thus far seems to break if it is
asciilifeform: ( which is why my mmap thing aint posted yet )
asciilifeform: the 1 workaround i've found is to make the lib 100% generic 'all the way down', but it's ugly imho
asciilifeform: ( what 'genericism' does in ada, is to force the compiler to rebuild a copy of the lib for erry time the exported type is invoked in the caller. at which point may as well tell user to drop the src into his, rather than link the lib, the effect is the same )
asciilifeform: the latter suxx because it infects the caller with the full pragma-restrictiveness of the lib.
asciilifeform: ( whereas troo static linkage does not )
asciilifeform: it isn't actually practical, as i currently understand, to build a large, nontrivial proggy with all of the restrict pragmas switched on.
asciilifeform: hence 'make this linkable' dances.
asciilifeform: the standard specifically promises that restrictions can be applied to narrow sections of coad. therefore gotta be made to work!
asciilifeform: i.e. when gnat fails to deliver this, it is properly speaking a gnat bug.
bvt: what i have fished out trying to solve the problem is that only a subset of restrictions should be contagious
asciilifeform: my aim is to eventually start patching these, rather than cranking out oddball workarounds.
bvt: i.e. https://docs.adacore.com/gnat_rm-docs/html/gnat_rm/gnat_rm/standard_and_implementation_defined_restrictions.html#partition-wide-restrictions
bvt: of course, > 3/4 of all restrictions are contagious, so you are right
asciilifeform: just about all the interesting ones, are, aha
asciilifeform: fwiw i've massaged ffa to the point where it's fully static and the problem dun affect it any. but some of my other stuff (mmap) is hobbled by it.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-05#1869702 << this sounds entirely like hack, in the proper sense of term -- someone got lazies attack and "nobody would think to check here". ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-11-05 23:08 asciilifeform: gnat is entirely ok with finalization in lib so long as the finalized type aint exported
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's a completely textbook case, aha, of 'we pulled on the duct tape and after 2 tonnes of pull it comes off'
asciilifeform brb,meat