log
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asciilifeform: Mocky, mircea_popescu , diana_away , et al : anybody find closed form for 'q1 and q2 miscible or not' ? all i have is Na(Qa - k) + Nb(Qb - k) = 0, for 1<=Na<=size(pileA), 1<=Nb<=size(pileB), integer k exists , but no better
asciilifeform: but i suspect that i'm thick
mod6: mircea_popescu: Alright, sorry to keep you waiting here. I'd say Pizarro is fine to hang on to ECU if we can try again in the next say, 60 days. This would eliminate the step of having to buy ECU (which clearly isn't a problem anyway). Otherwise, you can just !!pay. Amount was 1.1bn ECU. I originally bought 1.2bn from dpb, and I was going to hold the remaining 100mn until the end of the year, unless we
mod6: used it.
mod6: Unless you want to also do us the favor of taking the additional 100mn ECU, and just !!pay'ing 1.2 BTC back to Pizarro. Totally up to you. We appreciate very much your efforts on this. I think we'll find a way eventually.
asciilifeform: so if we say F(q1,q2) = 1 if miscible, 0 if not, then e.g. F(2,3)=0, F(2,5)=1, F(3,5)=1, F(4,5)=0, F(4,7)=1 ...
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-23#1843771 << ah, hadn't checked the queue in some time. approved (afaik this means your next comment won't require approval) ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-08-23 07:04 ave1: !Q later tell trinque, my comment seems to be stuck in transit; http://trinque.org/2018/07/06/cuntoo-bootstrapper-preview/#comment-23
lobbesbot: trinque: Sent 17 hours and 18 minutes ago: <ave1> comment seems to be stuck in transit; http://trinque.org/2018/07/06/cuntoo-bootstrapper-preview/#comment-23
asciilifeform: very definitely ~not~ if-and-only-if xor(qa&1, qb&1)==0 tho.
trinque: I'll try to find time to reproduce soon. you are correct that the var in script needs to point to the version of portage in distfiles.
trinque: will otherwise reply on teh blag
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-23#1843898 << not manacled, texas doesn't bother me, and I've not concluded yet how far away currency implosion is for the great soviet ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-08-23 17:59 asciilifeform: i can't speak for what particularly they're manacled to, only for self, tho.
trinque: if soon, I'm going to ride it out right here.
asciilifeform: trinque: makes sense. tho thread wasn't about the inevitable mass implosion, but the erryday 'losing the lottery' where usg decides yer a good candidate for cokemachine
asciilifeform: ( currently seems to stick to preying on the bottom half of the bell curve, mostly, but i suspect this won't last )
asciilifeform: not even speaking of whatever part of you is denominated in fiatola, ~that~ they can pick up and walk off with whenever feel like it, without even arrests or trials
asciilifeform: by all indications, texas, or alaska, or apparently even mexico, not far enuff.
trinque can't argue it wont happen, or whether I have to shoot somebody breaking in tonight, or...
asciilifeform: if history's any guide, they're still in the 'first we'll try and starve the judenschwein, make'em unemployable, then they'll sell their gold to good aryans on their own power' stage of the algo
asciilifeform: but i dun specifically know.
asciilifeform: fwiw both '20s su and '30s reich followed this model.
trinque: who in this model is the jew, in the present case
asciilifeform: us zeks with btc
asciilifeform: 20th c was century of dekulakizations, where 'these motherfuckers won't give up their hard currency to socialist motherland, let's light fire under their feet', typically shooting was not 1st step, but last step, of algo
mircea_popescu: trinque how many men > 50 with a house do you know ?
mircea_popescu: what's the ratio of those to men > 50 who ~used~ to own a house ?
trinque: quite a few, but my meatwot isn't generally representative
mircea_popescu: well, it's the argument he's bringing. "whether the pantsuit "nationalize" property for reasons to do with the property, like the soviet-pantsuit, or for reasons to do with you, like the nazi-pantsuit, fact remains they're stealing shit because they're socialists, that's what they do"
asciilifeform: see also http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-29#1676200 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-29 17:32 BingoBoingo: http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=8142 << "Her attorney informed us this morning, that although the deed is being assigned to my sister, my brother and I, that if my mother requires nursing home care through Medicare at any point over the next five years, that the Feds will take the house to pay the bills. "
trinque: sure, only thing I'd counter is the game by which they steal is the same test-taking nonsense seen elsewhere
mircea_popescu: herr heinrich who used to have a nuts and botls factory which hitler took from him because "we had a dreirich younger and better and managing your factory" or which stalin took from him "Because factories don't belong with heinrichs", in the end the same thing occured.
trinque: it's not as though anyone's coming at me with quantum physics on an IRS form
mircea_popescu: trinque the proposition is that to believe you understand "the method" is a nonsense stance, in a circumstance where "the method" is mere pretense.
mircea_popescu: yes, "you understant how esltard chicks mate", dates, whatever. looky here : the cunt will fill up, there's no method. there's only fashion, and fashion's a) irrational and b) unreliable.
asciilifeform: trinque: usg tax code weighs, what, 15 tonnes ? didja srsly read all of it ? betcha there's 9001 ways to hang you, me, any other zek, in'ere, if needed.
asciilifeform: ( and, bonus, is amended ~erry week )
trinque: this imagined circumstance where they're even 5% effective is just that.
mircea_popescu: "needed" being rhetorical flourish. i don't crush ants because needed.
trinque: they're not staffed for that
mircea_popescu: trinque you know, being shot at is <5% effective.
mircea_popescu: most people tend to take it seriously.
asciilifeform: 'needed' is broad concept. happened to see ant , stomped
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform or happened to not see.
asciilifeform: or.
asciilifeform: either worx.
asciilifeform: when ant specifically targeted, it's short shrift , 10y ago they would've tried you for your woman's illicit fox coat, or that d00d with the 'illegal wood' guitar, etc. today not even this needed , 'ooops police broke wrong door' etc
asciilifeform: 'ooops your aunt had stroke and now in nursing home, you owe yer 2 houses'
trinque: where is the wonderland without "oops X fucked your Y" and I'll pack today
asciilifeform: 'we saw you got 10 btc and didn't declare, that'll be 900k plz by tuesday'
trinque: I recall plenty of razorwire in CR. decorative?
mircea_popescu: they're fixated on metalwork.
asciilifeform: trinque: the way i conceptualize it, yes errybody has sr-90 in their bones. but some folx live right on top of reactor 4 , and others not
BingoBoingo: Seriously, here they have metal fences around everything. Totally decorative
mircea_popescu: also he should have said decorative??? like in those old pot awareness psas.
BingoBoingo: Some here top there fences with small electric fences. Stotting behavior
asciilifeform: it is possible to be shivved by street robber in sao paolo, or gnawed by bear in kamchatka, etc. but robber and bear do not grep yer packetz for 'might have btc' etc
asciilifeform: they're 'shrapnel addressed 'to occupant'' rather than 'bullet with yername on it'
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo amusing chinesium, they click/spark etc.
BingoBoingo: Occasionally set fires
BingoBoingo: I doubt most are powered on
mircea_popescu: expensive lol.
BingoBoingo: Seriously
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: ordinary compass will tell you if it's powered, no need to touch
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-23#1843958 << argentards think pasta is potato flake mush. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-08-23 22:41 BingoBoingo: If you come to Uruguay, avoid the shrimp pastas. Very underwhelming as a rule.
BingoBoingo: They only happen here ~10 feet up on top of unelectrified barriers.
asciilifeform: ( esp if you think there's an alarm, connected to gestapo , with current sensor )
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-24#1843992 <<< no, that's the formula. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-08-24 00:20 asciilifeform: Mocky, mircea_popescu , diana_away , et al : anybody find closed form for 'q1 and q2 miscible or not' ? all i have is Na(Qa - k) + Nb(Qb - k) = 0, for 1<=Na<=size(pileA), 1<=Nb<=size(pileB), integer k exists , but no better
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-24#1843996 << this is fine, do i shoot it ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-08-24 00:21 mod6: Unless you want to also do us the favor of taking the additional 100mn ECU, and just !!pay'ing 1.2 BTC back to Pizarro. Totally up to you. We appreciate very much your efforts on this. I think we'll find a way eventually.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: right! but how to evaluate F(qa,qb) without iterating through all possible na,nb.
mircea_popescu: right ?
mircea_popescu: closed form is closed form, fuck you and mz. heuristics tied together to the same pole.
asciilifeform: i sawed on it, tried to transform to system of diophantines, but came up empty
mircea_popescu: hence my comment re euler's count of primes etc.
asciilifeform: didn't even get as far as primes
asciilifeform: ( if mircea_popescu did, would be interesting to read how )
mod6: mircea_popescu: yeah, go ahead and !!pay 1.2 BTC back to me, and I'll meet ya on eulora to pay you 100mn ECU. Thanks!
mircea_popescu: !!pay mod6 1.2
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/As0H8/?raw=true
mod6: im in old-town when you're ready
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-24#1844048 << lol, so maybe it is! ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-08-24 00:57 mircea_popescu: also he should have said decorative??? like in those old pot awareness psas.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: my observation was, the old algo rejects some legal moves (e.g. 4,7 )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform specifically via diophantine : if a and b is a natural interval then a*p + b * q (p, q arbitrary constants) will not admit factors ever so often (when they sum to a prime)
asciilifeform: when a*p and b*q sum to prime ?
mircea_popescu: though our constraint is narrower than "not admit factors", but if you do the whole thing in modulo-ai+bi...
mircea_popescu: it comes to the same thing.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform am i making any sense to you ?
asciilifeform: not yet
asciilifeform: what i got thus far, is that Na(Qa - k) + Nb(Qb - k) = 0 admits solutions ( some Na, Nb ) for certain Qa,Qb but not others.
asciilifeform: 4+7=11, prime, but has solutions ( entire diagonal of'em)
mircea_popescu: what 4 + 7 is this ?!
asciilifeform: q1,q2
mircea_popescu: that's not what's being contemplated.
mod6: oh when p and q are 1?
mircea_popescu: consider the intervals of N (0...a], (0...b]. for two arbitrary values from N, p, q. the sum of the series-product in the ring modulo-sum is ~sometimes~ 0.
mircea_popescu: numerically : (0..100], (0..80], 17, 19. 1 * 17 + 5 * 19 modulo (1+5) = 4.
mircea_popescu: seems to me that EXACTLY like in the original case of the diophantine approach to "just how many primes are there" we've in fact drawn a conical here in a multi-dimesional space.
asciilifeform: i follow thus far
mircea_popescu: that's all i had.
asciilifeform: cooking up a lol re subj, brb
mircea_popescu: this function is neither derivable nor even continuous. can call it eulora mix function or w/e.
mod6: neato
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-24#1844008 << the criterion rather seems to be "old[er] male". which even has a lot of historical backing (perhaps most amusing of which, anyone know how the problem of double-spent land grants was solved upon the death of caesar ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-08-24 00:30 asciilifeform: ( currently seems to stick to preying on the bottom half of the bell curve, mostly, but i suspect this won't last )
mircea_popescu: pro-tip : the older set of veterans got fucked.)
mircea_popescu: mod6 i dun see you in old town ?
mod6: oh one sec.
mod6: must have timed out.
mod6: no nevermind. im over by Heina.
mircea_popescu: a new town. brt.
mod6: Oooh. Sorry thought that was old town.
mircea_popescu: nah remember up on that hill by electron ?
mod6: oooh, gotcha derp
mod6: cheers!
asciilifeform: ok, here goes...
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/mp.gif
asciilifeform: is the method obvious here or should i describe
mod6: sick tattoo
asciilifeform: white pixel : valid solution for some qa,qb,na,nb
asciilifeform: outer grid is x : qa, y : qb
mircea_popescu: is this the map of mixings
mircea_popescu: \yeah
asciilifeform: inner grids are x : na, y : nb .
mircea_popescu: indeed most elegant.
asciilifeform: black squares correspond, therefore, to values of qa and qb for which no solutions are possible
mircea_popescu: Mocky check it up, in the end possibru LOOKUP TABLE!
asciilifeform: nao somebody turn this into proof !
asciilifeform: cuz i certainly havent
asciilifeform: gentlemen, start yer engines..
mod6: oh shit, it's a gif. i bet if i stare long enough a dragon pops out at me.
asciilifeform: if anybody needs a bigger ( or smaller ) ver of this lolcat, plox to write in.
mircea_popescu: alfart.
asciilifeform: i made it 2048x2048 pixels, ought to print well on just about any printer , for wall lolcat hanging.
asciilifeform: can also saw it diagonally, you dun really need both halves across diagonal
asciilifeform: (symmetric)
mod6: pretty cool alf
asciilifeform: nao we haven't yet the proof, but seems like we can conjecture that if |qa - qb| = 1, then piles with qa and qb are immiscible in any ratio; elsewise, yes mixable, in a ratio that can be found, i suspect, in O(1) .
mircea_popescu: the thing is : if you mix portions of both stacks you gain ~nothing.
mircea_popescu: you want to always use up a whole stack
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: do you ? seems like Mocky's proggy doesn't
mircea_popescu: does, does.
mircea_popescu: mixes a whole stack with a portion of another
mircea_popescu: see, you want to fewerize the stacks.
asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/bvsMD/?raw=true << does not.
mod6: paging apeloyee
asciilifeform: ( from http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-22#1843560 ) ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-08-22 05:48 Mocky: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-20#1525884 ftr my algo does it in 40 steps preserving full value of 1,639,142: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/bvsMD/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: where ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if it did, it would shed a whole pile for each line of move output
mircea_popescu: nah.
mircea_popescu: put x% of stack a in stack b === mix stack b with portion of a and place the result where stack b stood before.
asciilifeform: move 1 : 503x222q 1466x3q 973x207q 983x252q 1651x258q 2963x189q 563x22q 336x225q -> 503x222q 1466x3q 973x207q 983x252q 1088x258q 2963x189q 1126x140q 336x225q
asciilifeform: same # of piles as in init state
asciilifeform: ditto all the way until move 31
asciilifeform: when the 1st pile disappearance
mircea_popescu: ...
mircea_popescu: what you say doesn't contradict what i say.
asciilifeform: aah i see it
mircea_popescu: yeah.
asciilifeform: yea he adds portion of pile a to whole of pile b
mircea_popescu: right.
mircea_popescu: now mind you, we have no proof that this is correct approach. maybe by strewning out piles you get better results in the end.
mircea_popescu: one obvious strategy : make q1 piles of everything, then min-max them, sorta like bubble sort.
asciilifeform: as i see it, this makes for new algo : 1) make list of immiscible piles, henceforth do not iterate with these 2) iterate through possible mixes, solving eqn for Na (for known Nb, entirety of pile B) and k exists . until you end with solely immiscible Q pairs. then stop.
asciilifeform: if can prove the |qa - qb| != 1 thing, can then use this algo.
mircea_popescu: there can't be inmiscible more-than-two-not-same-q piles.
mircea_popescu: 3 or more piles of diff q are always miscible further.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if my conjecture is troo, then you're right
asciilifeform: ( and as i understand it, if yer right, then my conjecture must be true )
mircea_popescu: im right, im right. there's a reason we're using "two stacks of diff parities" as stop condition.
asciilifeform: then mircea_popescu's proof for this is proof also for $conjecture, lol
asciilifeform: and can use this method.
BingoBoingo: Piles >> https://imgoat.com/uploads/00da03b685/138807.png
asciilifeform: ugh was this necessary BingoBoingo !111
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i love the pretense that dumb whale has "a life".
mod6: my eyes
BingoBoingo: No, but it has been a while
asciilifeform: now my next conjecture, is that shortest full reduction never will require more than 2*P steps, P is number of q-miscible piles.
mircea_popescu: this is false, trivial example http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-23#1843918 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-08-23 21:29 Mocky: for example this pile of 4 requires 2 moves: 1x1q 100x1000q 100x1001q 1x2001q, while if you do it without the last pile: the remaining 3 require 20 steps
asciilifeform: Mocky's algo aint optimal !
mircea_popescu: so you've got a 6 steps solution ?
asciilifeform: it rejects ~3/4 of legal moves
asciilifeform: i dun have one in my head, lol. but loox on the surface that there is one.
Mocky: for sake of argument, possible it rejects 3/4 of worst moves
asciilifeform: also possible
mircea_popescu: seems decent ossasepia.
mircea_popescu: that particular example i mean.
mircea_popescu wipes tear from eye, brought forth by how eulora will entertain even the blackhearted heretics who won't "play" it. it is a tear of joyous schadenfreunde.
Mocky: but looky, maybe not 20 steps exactly, but more than 2, *no question*
asciilifeform: hey i'm playing it!111 rigthere!
asciilifeform: imho this is perfectly legit play!11
mircea_popescu: i agree.
asciilifeform: tabletop-eulora.
mircea_popescu: you'll never make the tops, but then again not everyone does.
asciilifeform didn't make tops in arkanoid as a kid, either, can live with this
mircea_popescu: man rthose lasers...
asciilifeform sings... tidididididida...
mod6: rent rockchip, make text-only-client, setup foxybot, profit???
mircea_popescu: go for it.
mircea_popescu: it's mockybot these days tho. he finally released one that works, i've been mining with it all week.
mircea_popescu: half a dozen pops or so.
mod6: hey nice!
mircea_popescu: very nice indeed.
mod6: maybe i'll give that a shot this weekend. i love mining
mircea_popescu: me too! i used to not really be able to do so much, but nowadays...
mod6: remember doing it all by hand? my arm used to hurt after hours of this lol.
mircea_popescu: o yea
mircea_popescu: didn't thickasthieves get carpal ? or am i conflating stories ?
asciilifeform: i think he contracted cuckal
asciilifeform: or whatever it's called.
mircea_popescu: i recall this being a topic at c1, and me going "oh, there'll be bots"
mircea_popescu: FORESIGHTS!
mod6: i dunno, maybe? i felt like my arm was gonna fall off a few times. but never as bad as anything perm.
mod6: but we were all running around hording up all kinds of loot.
mod6: ive still got STs.
mircea_popescu: me2
mod6: i read that they're abundant nao tho
mircea_popescu: time for caek and cocktails, bbl!
mod6: c-ya
asciilifeform: i'ma leave the proof for conjecture #2 here :
asciilifeform: the diagonal symmetry in the inner matrices. QED.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> didn't thickasthieves get carpal ? or am i conflating stories ? << Mats has carpal, TAT went terminally comment section butthurt
asciilifeform: ( any qa-qb miscible pair of piles, can be merged in either 1 ( corresponding to the inner matrices having white line on diagonal ) moves, or 2 ( corresponding to those which do not ) .
asciilifeform: )
asciilifeform: actually nm.
asciilifeform: i'ma bbl.
Mocky: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-24#1844113 this is very nice ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-08-24 01:37 asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/mp.gif
Mocky: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-24#1844187 this was meant to read 2*P ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-08-24 02:02 Mocky: but looky, maybe not 20 steps exactly, but more than 2, *no question*
Mocky: neither could it be done in 3*P. my given example I'd wager 50/50 if it could be done in 4*P
mircea_popescu: ah, but... how do you reason ?
Mocky: based on intuition, which i shall explain
Mocky: the 1xq1 item has a tiny mass compared to the 200 ~q1000 items, and will resolve into the q1000 pile. theres no way to mix a q1 up to q1000 using only ~q1000 items in 10 or less moves. it's just got a long way to go
mircea_popescu: Mocky : mix 1q1 with 99q 1001. new set is now 100q1k, 100q991, 1q 1001. then mix 1q1001 with 9q991. new set is 100q1k, 91q991, 10q992.
mircea_popescu: next you split the 100 into the 991 and 992 groups and you're done.
mircea_popescu: next you split the 100 into the 991 and 992 groups and you're done.
mircea_popescu: 4 moves.
Mocky: i'm going to take a minute and verify that. but i expect you to be right, and then im gonna come back and say "ah, but i chose a bad example"
Mocky: looks right, so my intuition is clearly ill informed. imma see what else I can see
asciilifeform: Mocky: the lolcatcheatsheet suggests that any legal move is able to reduce a pile at least in half
asciilifeform: ( and really, much moar )
Mocky: maybe i'm dense, what do you mean reduce a pile at least in half?
mircea_popescu: so far, the correct approach seems to be : 1. select the outlier piles (highest q, lowest q). 2. mix the smaller of the two with such a fraction of the larger of the two as can be done. 3. repeat. if 2 fails, move inwardly on the pair list.
mircea_popescu: Mocky he means the x% is never < 50% and rarelyt <80%
mircea_popescu: the ~other~ good approach is 1. calculate average quality as a real ; 2. calculate the integer piles of consecutive qualities this reduces to (you'll never get an irrational value through 1, which in itself is a very itneresting lemma) ; 3. try all pile pairs in some (random ?) order for producing either of the two expected qualities.
Mocky: ok, I see it
asciilifeform: currently i suspect that any 2 miscible-q piles can be merged in either 1 or 2 steps. but too tired to attempt proof just nao
asciilifeform bbl
mircea_popescu: anyway, i expect the "hard" case would revolve around powers of two, so i'm guessing checkermark pairings probably deliver the hardest case (for current pairwise mixing). say in 8 bit : 85 items q170, 146 items q 73, 219 items q109 and so on.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-22#1816827 << dug up! it's http://trilema.com/2014/on-the-superiority-of-monarchy-or-adnotations-to-why-the-worst-get-on-top/#selection-153.0-153.557 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-22 21:47 mircea_popescu: so far that's even the reason empire crossed the threshold into oblivion ( i'm too lazy to dig up ye olde trilema where i say "state may exist for as long as it so closely mimmicks my will i can't discern it's there, and not one second past that" ) and now must be destroyed. had it had the sense (rather, the capacity) to maintain both forms, i'd nwever have even noticed it, and it could have continued to exist therefore.
mod6: mornin'
mircea_popescu: heya.
mod6 tired.
mod6: need coffee
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i solved yer puzzler, will post sln later today
mod6: !!invoice BingoBoingo 0.01341464 One month rental of rockchip: Through September 2018
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/TGAsi/?raw=true
mod6: !!v DC1B15C060167472D1E14D037637116C56F6EC6D92BD265DD8C64281D7F45030
deedbot: Invoiced BingoBoingo 0.01341464 << One month rental of rockchip: Through September 2018
mircea_popescu: "Solution (.Sln) File - msdn.microsoft.com The new home for Visual Studio documentation is Visual Studio 2017 Documentation on docs.microsoft.com. The latest version of this topic can be found at Solution (.Sln) File. A solution is a structure for organizing projects in Visual Studio. The solution maintains the state information for projects ..."
mircea_popescu: way to go alf !!1 >D
mircea_popescu: (holy shit think about it, state information ~for projects~)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's standard microshit turd, 'what files luser has open and to what pos' etc
asciilifeform: massive binarygarbagepile
mircea_popescu: anyway. what did you mean, special linear group ?
mircea_popescu never met a lie-ician before!
asciilifeform: wait an' see, i suspect mircea_popescu will like the answ
mircea_popescu: alrighty!
asciilifeform: know what, i can post the answer, and somebody else can turn into proggy if he feels like
asciilifeform: cuz it is not complicated
asciilifeform: observe that the final 2 piles always satisfy the form n1*q1 + n2*q2 = S , where S is the sum of the masses (n_x * q_x for all x)
asciilifeform: in turn both of the piles that went into n1 (and likewise n2) satisfy same recurrence, n1_a * q1_a + n1_b + q1_b = n1*q1 ; n2_a * q2_a + n2_b + q2_b = n2*q2 .
asciilifeform: err, n2_a * q2_a + n2_b * q2_b = n2*q2
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu : do i need to go on, or has it clicked ?
asciilifeform: all you gotta do is to take { floor(sum(mass) / sum(qty)) - 1 , floor(sum(mass) / sum(qty)) } as the initial guess for the split of qualities of the final 2 piles
asciilifeform: in the case of Mocky's example, this will be initially 172,173
asciilifeform: then attempt to permute the list into two sublists which satisfy the recurrence. if the recursion comes up empty, you slide the guess tuple forward by 1. (there is no need to do this more than once, avg of the final 2 piles cannot exceed that of the entire thing)
asciilifeform: one of the two attempts will turn up a valid decomposition.
asciilifeform: if you want optimal decomposition, you keep all valid ones and pick the shortest.
asciilifeform: bang.
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/08/usg-lich-mccain-surrenders-in-war-on-cancer-will-spend-rest-of-days-as-cancer-pow/ << Qntra - USG Lich McCain Surrenders In War On Cancer Will Spend Rest of Days As Cancer POW
BingoBoingo: ^ Phylactry has been found!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is what http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-24#1844244 proposes. but no, not "random", recursive instead. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-08-24 04:04 mircea_popescu: the ~other~ good approach is 1. calculate average quality as a real ; 2. calculate the integer piles of consecutive qualities this reduces to (you'll never get an irrational value through 1, which in itself is a very itneresting lemma) ; 3. try all pile pairs in some (random ?) order for producing either of the two expected qualities.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha , no randomness in my pill, it converges deterministically
asciilifeform: and never goes in circles
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo good god, are they now gonna do a bunchga herp derp about how important the moron is and how irreplaceable the scrapping ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: The latest round appears to already have started
mircea_popescu: spurious fucktards.
BingoBoingo: But all comments are being attributed to "the family" suggesting he is already very close to Potato if not already there
asciilifeform: evaluating proposed split of set is very easy, you check that the sum(n_...) and weighed avg of the component Qs are in spec.
mircea_popescu: collective personage best personage, nobody has authority top say "this wasn't said".
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform let's put this in proper algo form.
asciilifeform: i'ma write it up in cl if nobody else wants to.
mircea_popescu: so 1. calculate q so that n q + m (q+1) = S (the sum of the count-quality products for the entire starting set)
mircea_popescu: 2. you split the starting set into two sub sets by the criteria ? and without splitting stacks ?
asciilifeform: stacks get split via the recurrence given in the start
asciilifeform: it describes all valid could-have-merged's
mircea_popescu: mmm
mircea_popescu: how do you choose between 7+5 and 6+6 ?
asciilifeform: you recurse
mircea_popescu: suppose i have stacks of 10k each with qualities from 50 to 150. average q is 100. now, how do i split these 100 stacks into two subsets ?
mircea_popescu: specifically, how do i pick among alternatives 1. "all stacks with odd index, left, all stacks with even index, right" and 2. "all stacks under 75 or over 125 left, all stacks within 75 to 125, right" ?
asciilifeform: 1s
mircea_popescu shall proceed to coffee with diana_coman in a few, but thereafter will be back, so no worries.
asciilifeform: there's a strong chance this won't make sense until shown as lisp proggy.
mircea_popescu: considering how much lisp i read... possibly not even then!
mod6: :D
asciilifeform: but the way it goes, is to recurse along all valid paths, and mark the traversals that result in initial-state piles being successfully 'eaten'
mod6: same
mircea_popescu: seems to me the complexity of this will be massive.
asciilifeform: nah
asciilifeform: O(bitness of finalmass)
mircea_popescu: no fucking wai.
mod6: asciilifeform: Good to go for us to buy another round of SSDs? (apparently this time we can only get 3 at a time)
asciilifeform: the 'cheat' is that for ~any~ pile in the tree, you know that it had to result from one of 2 possible merges.
asciilifeform: mod6: why only 3 ?!
mod6: shitazon limits, i've seen it before myself.
asciilifeform: bah
asciilifeform: 3 then
mod6: we do what we can. i was pretty impressed with the speed at which they arrived.
mircea_popescu: mod6 conceivably (besides ip registration thing, which how's it going ?) might also get vendor status ? open a little shop of actual stuff in uruguay ?
mircea_popescu: a shop of used computer parts is a great complement for a dc op.
asciilifeform: that would rock
mod6: Was kinda thinking that myself mircea_popescu... at least, in concept.
mod6: I haven't even considered IP registration.. was there a inititive to get a block of our own from ICANN?
mircea_popescu: yeah. you can sell all your shit that's out of amortization at half price, become huge. well, "huge", south america huge.
mircea_popescu: mod6 yeah, back in like... february ?
mod6: oh, I'll have to talk to ben_vulpes and read the logs on that. thanks for the nudge.
mircea_popescu: anyhways bbl
mod6: c-ya
mod6: !Qcalc 900/6200
lobbesbot: mod6: 0.145161290323
mod6: !!pay BingoBoingo 0.14516129
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/rXCF2/?raw=true
mod6: !!v 945B7F7A6D4F4AEC6760362343EAB65C65D3A49F973D59E066287DEF2841727E
deedbot: mod6 paid BingoBoingo 0.14516129
mod6: BingoBoingo: whatever you don't spend, just hang on to it, and we'll tally it up at EOM for the books.
ben_vulpes: iirc lacnic wants to see the existing block more heavily used than it is right now before allocating more, BingoBoingo was there something else incorporation that LACNIC wanted to see?
ben_vulpes: incorporation-related*
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: if it's just a matter of having all the ips answer when pinged -- we can have that cured without much sweat
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: feel free to route all unrouted ips to dulap
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Aite
ben_vulpes: if it's that simple, that'd be spiffy indeed
mod6: It sounds like, "Be legally established within the region and use the resources in LACNIC's coverage area."
mod6: So we might need to incorporate first. *might*
trinque: "hurr they are for xen tenements"
trinque: mod6: seems like a valuable thing to have, local corp
trinque: I dunno the tax laws down there, but might be beneficial in regards to deducting expenses?
trinque: I hear only the states audit people too, so all the more reason :P
mod6: Well, it's ~$4500 to buy a pre-built corp. Then alf & myself would have to fly down and sign the articles of organization.
mod6: We think that we would probably have a higher base tax liability -- right BingoBoingo ?
mod6: $4500 is quite a bit for where we currently stand financially.
trinque: doesn't fit with my experience of running businesses, typically the thing doesn't post any substantial income in the startup phase
mod6: *shrug*
trinque: (it could be that already tax is not a significant slice of your costs, dunno how it works, but would read)
BingoBoingo: <mod6> So we might need to incorporate first. *might* << Or I can apply as a unipersonal
BingoBoingo: Or try
BingoBoingo: <trinque> doesn't fit with my experience of running businesses, typically the thing doesn't post any substantial income in the startup phase << THe big tax incurred would be VAT
mod6: Is the 'unipersonal' like a sole-propritorship ?
mod6: *proprietorship
trinque: a quick google suggests the rate for distribution of profit is lower than the rate for regular income, which is what I'd have expected, so conceivably BingoBoingo could be compensated in part through his stake in the local corp as profit
trinque: dunno what the "home office" rules are there either, but maybe some rent gets thrown in too
BingoBoingo: mod6: It is
BingoBoingo: trinque: THe substantial VAT here makes things complicated
trinque: yeah, seems like they're income-tax light and sales-tax heavy, eh?
trinque: (which seems pretty damned sane to me, actually)
trinque: er VAT, sales-tax wouldn't be properly descriptive
BingoBoingo: Right. For a comsumer VAT and sales tax look the same, but... ther is a substantial difference
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: exactly how many vacant ip do we have ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I'll do a count
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I don't have the complete list of assigned ip's, but from .204 through .246 should be unallocated
mircea_popescu: trinque> mod6: seems like a valuable thing to have, local corp << a recurrent observation.