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mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2012/culture-shock-ama/ more or less.
ben_vulpes: heh veen and i broke apple's facial recognition on the first day it shipped. filed report, crickets.
mircea_popescu: iirc a bunch of people made sport of that
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: point is not that it will work as printed on the box. but that the machine won't log you in unless it sees a passable room with passable face-like object in it.
asciilifeform: i.e. camera-is-running
asciilifeform: this is part of a slow, planned anal dilation of the luserbase.
mircea_popescu: that part is certainly coming. dreamers moving towards their vats as foretold.
asciilifeform: ditto voice command crapolade
asciilifeform: normalizing always-on-microphone.
ben_vulpes: foregoing oblique unlock is going to be hard to jam down the kids throat
ben_vulpes: or the ability to hand phone to friends and unlock it
ben_vulpes: even having the lock on is pretty uncommon, people go to lengths to turn it off
asciilifeform: the face thing is also a step to http://www.loper-os.org/?p=752
asciilifeform: '- Where have you been, Dad? You can wait forever. You have to read the text through the polarizer glasses. Without them, all you’ll see is the ads! - What’s that for? - What do you mean, what’s that for? So nobody who hasn’t paid can read the book! Think, I buy a book, and someone who didn’t buy anything could read it over my shoulder…'
mircea_popescu: eh if only.
mircea_popescu: you keep seeing method to the madness. there's no method.
mircea_popescu: the face thing is a step in the direction of argentina : it doesn't work, nobody knows how to fix it and it's not anybody;s fault anyway so let's adapt.
mircea_popescu: same thing that produced the above microsoft networking paradigm.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there is method. random js crapolade on some indian www may be monkey throwing shit against a wall. an item like 'amazon alexa' is not.
asciilifeform: it was designed, and works. to spec.
asciilifeform: a work of evil, but works, to spec.
mircea_popescu: same thing that the gyneceum always produces, and i don't give a shit you call it "human resources" or "engineers" or "the stupid bitches in ditch A"
mircea_popescu: pfff.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu conflates, e.g., nodejs, prb -- vs alexa, ipnoje -- at his peril imho.
mircea_popescu: i'm on the record not conflating them, take the recent c/llvm discussion.
mircea_popescu: but ars vita, longa brevis or how that went. very little space for actual agency in the wailing crowd.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: tru!
asciilifeform: in my observations there are roughly 2 factions of technocrapolade -- 'microshit': crashes, 'meat-like' malfunctions, shit soup of 'why does this exist', shithubs full of gender-fix-commits, etc; and 'crapple' -- ipnoje that worx 100% of the time you push the button, while slowly recording; amazon's widgets; google's spamless mail; and similarly appealing, sweet and carcinogenic nintendos
asciilifeform: quite disjoint sets, for the most part.
mircea_popescu: such an "ipnoje" does not exist.
asciilifeform: wwwtronic idiocies mostly live in the former camp
mircea_popescu: the ~only thing that is even vaguely similar to that is the sort of deep-in-the-bowels systems engineering as to my mind best exemplified by the llvm thing and ~nothing else.
asciilifeform: recall who pays for llvm, and in what product it is used.
mircea_popescu: not airfoil manufacture ; not electronic countermeasures ; not special ops ; not diplomacy, nothing.
asciilifeform: airfoil probably still designed on vax.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform sure, but this is not unlike saying cow can fly because gut produces methane.
mircea_popescu: back at reality once, they managed it ONCE. they can't do it at-will ; they can't even do it again. it's rather a crapshot than a thing.
asciilifeform: which 'it' ?
veen: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-21#1616522 << some display of tone-deaf impotence, that ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-02-21 23:55 asciilifeform: but meanwhile in the monkey cages, https://archive.is/iUfOp >> '“Climate change is not a controversy,” read one sign at yesterday’s “Rally to Stand Up for Science,” which drew hundreds to the historic downtown plaza. ... "We're really trying to send a message today to Mr. Trump that America runs on science, science is the backbone of our prosperity and progress," said Geoffrey Supran, a postdoctoral fellow at Harvard Univer
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform your idea of "ipnoje"
veen: > our scientism has shown these facts to be self-evident! such reasoning is sufficient to affect trajectory of body politic and clown car alike
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: well noshit, they did it once, how many times does what other company create product category from thin air, in which literally every other vendor remains trabant imitator
mircea_popescu: are you talking about llvm or about the imaginary market for "Tablets" ?
asciilifeform: pocket-thing-with-www-browser, as a class
mircea_popescu: this is an entirely spurious novel item in our discussion.
asciilifeform: very easy to say for d00d who uses 0 of these and can't even picture why anyone would.
mircea_popescu: we were talking about cognitive capability ; not about "the dutch invented the tulip tradegood and everyone was stuck being immitator -- for a while anyway"
asciilifeform: i dunno that anyone has made 'new cognitive capability' since engelbart.
mircea_popescu: so -- yes, "someone" had the cognitive capability to http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-31#1594887 ; but that same someone failed to produce a workable counterpart to the russian jet ; or any kind of response to the chinese missilization ; or any sort of coherent narrative for the middle east ; or even anything past "never happened - if it happened it doesn't matter - if it matters we did it anyway" re russkis turning off the ele ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-31 18:20 mircea_popescu: but not just llvm - the whole world exists, and it produces things such as "'Static linking of user binaries is not supported on Mac OS X. Tying user binaries to the internal implementation of Mac OS X libraries and interfaces would limit our ability to update and enhance Mac OS X. Instead, dynamic linking is supported (linking against crt1.o automatically instead of looking for crt0.o, for example). We strongly recommend tha
mircea_popescu: ctronics on a cruiser whose only raison d'etre is an imaginary electronics war.
mircea_popescu: and the list could go on.
mircea_popescu: on the balance of an endless field of failures with one (relatively minor) bright spot, the theory that "the face thing is also a step to http://www.loper-os.org/?p=752" is a little less supported than the theory that " monkey throwing shit against a wall"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform for this discussion, every inner city black thug who sits down to start his own brothel is (like, say, http://trilema.com/2016/hustle-flow/ ) is laying down a new cognitive capacity farm.
asciilifeform: only in the cow-is-methane-vendor sense
mircea_popescu: whether it'll be enough or not, for what it aims to do or for something else, is an entirely different discussion. but the important point is that man has raeched that sad level of overpopulation where it assembles into meta-creatures.
mircea_popescu: much like locusts eventually get too many and swarm, man got too abundant and is now making shambling horrors out of himself.
mircea_popescu: as far as these assemblages go, there isn't a substantial difference between the black pimp's hussle&flow and the white cuckold's hussle&flow. neither of them can act substantially and deliberately. gotta pick one.
asciilifeform: the 'counter to ru jet' is called '~100% of ru brass own walmart stock and have children at harvacambridgetonyale'
asciilifeform: and afaik it continues to work
mircea_popescu: failed spectacularly in turkey.
asciilifeform: to the point where usg can poison beloved ambassador d00d and 0 risk
mircea_popescu: would fail in russia too.
mircea_popescu: this is a permanence of politics. the FUCKING POINT of an ambassador is that the barbarians can kill him.
mircea_popescu: which is why there's no glory in it, and why the more civilised ancients refrained.
asciilifeform: worked great in turkey, they nailed another beloved-ambassador-d00d with 0 push back
mircea_popescu: no, don't slide. you were discussing "the 'counter to ru jet' is called '~100% of ru brass own walmart stock and have children at harvacambridgetonyale'".
asciilifeform: killing envoys was ~the~ act of war, since, idk, before hammurabi
mircea_popescu: failed to work. spectacularly.
asciilifeform: colour me thick, how did it fail ?
mircea_popescu: most of those schmucks are never going to see the outside of a jail cell.
asciilifeform: who, in particular ?
asciilifeform: in which jail are they
mircea_popescu: you're aware erdogan is still in power, and the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-15#1614142 "victims" are literally lost. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-02-15 20:05 mircea_popescu: check it out, they even call it us kleptocracy department! apt.
asciilifeform: hey even mr.t over here is theoretically still-in-power.
mircea_popescu: none of your business in which jail are they. suffice it to be said that they aren't ever coming out. and whoever feels uppity in usg "deep state" is very much next.
mircea_popescu: lol. well, by now your position has degraded enough so ima call this good.
asciilifeform: so far it looks like ' mircea_popescu: great victory. asciilifeform : where? mircea_popescu : seekrit evidence, noneofyerbiznis'
mircea_popescu: mno. by the time you have to resort to "in my village it rains apples, SO THERE!" you can "win", but it'll be all by yourself.
mircea_popescu: the only item in power in the us today is trump. this should be abundantly clear, as a minimal qualifying bar for "op is not batshit insane". on the level of perceiving the sunset.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in, e.g., erdogan's place, if you 'had won, and Still In Power, and They Will Never Leave Jail', would you secretly stow the defeated in some jail ? or impale on public square, where everyone can see'em ? why not the latter ?
mircea_popescu: because the education of imbeciles is not on my budget.
mircea_popescu: the impale thing happens when you aim to educate, which is what the display of violence without possibility of recourse is all about.
mircea_popescu: if you simply aim to win, there's no marked benefit.
asciilifeform: if nothing else, public execution is cheaper than guarding and feeding schmuck for years
mircea_popescu: you think ?
asciilifeform: and than having to deal with potentially endless stream of incoming idiots
mircea_popescu: there's not going to be any stream in turkey.
asciilifeform: the chinese shoot in stadiums, with roaring crowds.
mircea_popescu: not the tibetansd.
asciilifeform: meanwhile we have 454084.
asciilifeform: 7 peers.
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/lrfKn/?raw=true
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/02/%d0%b1%d0%b8%d1%82%d0%ba%d0%be%d0%b8%d0%bd-%d1%8d%d1%82%d0%be-%d0%b5%d0%b4%d0%b8%d0%bd%d1%81%d1%82%d0%b2%d0%b5%d0%bd%d0%bd%d0%b0%d1%8f-%d0%b2-%d0%bc%d0%b8%d1%80%d0%b5-%d0%b1%d0%bb%d0%be/ << Qntra - "Биткоин — это единственная в мире блокчейн" says Russian State Bank
asciilifeform: now ~that~'s interesting.
BingoBoingo: !~tslb
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Time since last block: 2 minutes and 8 seconds
BingoBoingo: ty pete_dushenski
asciilifeform: in other noose, http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/sadnodes.txt
asciilifeform: ^ if you see yourself on this list , know !
BingoBoingo: !~tslb
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Error: Problem retrieving latest block data.
BingoBoingo: !~bcstats
veen: BingoBoingo: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/a4mgA/?raw=true
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Current Blocks: None | Current Difficulty: {"difficulty":440779902286.5892} | Next Difficulty At Block: None | Next Difficulty In: None blocks | Next Difficulty In About: None | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
ben_vulpes: interesting, my irc client is not receiving
ben_vulpes: earlier i saw 3 lines from trinque hit all at once.
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: de nada
pete_dushenski checks sadnodes list, doesn't see own nodes
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: qntra comment replied
pete_dushenski to hit some e-notes (the music kind)
asciilifeform: in other lulz, https://archive.is/qtwGu seems to claim that ru let city of new york autopsy churkin !
asciilifeform: and then went on to 'it will take two weeks'
asciilifeform: in other lulz, << google spider . now attempts to connect to trb nodez.
asciilifeform: on 8333, speaking prbish.
asciilifeform: in other comedies, https://github.com/funkshelper/therealbitcoin
mod6: evening!
asciilifeform: hey mod6
mod6: Finally caught up here...
mod6: <+asciilifeform> http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2017-February/000248.html << ok, thx!
mod6: sounds like your nodes are stablizing and getting blocks, have connected peers.
asciilifeform: mod6: dulap (with the new snip) is actually beating zoolag
mod6: ok cool.
mod6: im gonna build in your patch and deploy. see how it goes, thank you for your submission to the ML.
asciilifeform: don't. yet.
mod6: ok, fair enough, just gonna keep an eye on it a bit longer then?
asciilifeform: ACHTUNG, PANZERS:
asciilifeform: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2017-February/000249.html
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, mod6 , ben_vulpes , et al ^
asciilifeform: i can't fucking believe that nobody caught this.
asciilifeform: sometimes i wonder whether anybody is even awake.
trinque: in point of fact, I did bother to grep for ping.
trinque: there's another mention in main.cpp
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform people have a little longer pipelines than THREE HOURS you.
ben_vulpes: rather rude litte gnome isn't it.
mod6 looks
mircea_popescu: he gets overexcited and oversignals.
ben_vulpes: he?
mircea_popescu: lol did we mangle antecedents ?
ben_vulpes: i'm talking about that funky github repo.
mircea_popescu can't summon teh interest.
ben_vulpes: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/3dLmj/?raw=true
trinque: just funkenstein virtue signaling while he pilfers
mircea_popescu: eh whatevers.
mircea_popescu: i'm sure about half the locker rooms in all highschools in history contained picture of most accomplished slut/jock in the class with words scribbled on it.
ben_vulpes: anyways, asciilifeform my queue is rather deep, working with mod6 on a thing
mod6: many thanks, Mr. Vulpes.
mod6: asciilifeform: sig verifies. ima build this one, unless you want me to hold off still.
BingoBoingo: Thank you alf for your impatience, its contribution is very appreciated
mod6: [nao building with v 99994A1 asciilifeform_goodbye_pingers_fixed.vpatch] ☟︎
mircea_popescu: k3k
mircea_popescu: lol a1
mod6: :] for flavor.
asciilifeform: mod6: pretty sure this is it
asciilifeform: this one, lel, no longer bans trb nodes...
asciilifeform: (or rather, no longer emits pings. trb nodes emitting pings -- still banhammered)
mod6: aha. werd.
asciilifeform: quite possibly this experiment was misguided
asciilifeform: what, i am suspecting, i oughta have done, is to banhammer strictly those nodes who ~pong back~
asciilifeform: because as it is, trb nodes (such as zoolag) are getting the hammer.
asciilifeform: the folx i was trying to kill, are those who ~sit idle and hog the socket~ while waiting for a pong that never comes.
mircea_popescu: i dunno why you're doing this skidding thing anyway, not like there's some sort of emergency.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i grow very tired of 'blackhole'
mircea_popescu: yes but.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: every so often, i actually need to send a tx. and grow very, very irritated if for whatever reason at all, i cannot.
mod6: hm. It ~is~ annoying. No gigantic rush.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform consider it one of the many benefits of single-node "man and his fortress" outlook.
asciilifeform: in point of fact i have 2
mircea_popescu: it's a p2p network, which means it's lossy, shitty and etc.
asciilifeform: but sure.
mircea_popescu: yes, but i tihnk you get my point.
asciilifeform: eh i i had 22, or 222, i'd simply have a different reason (tx propagation fail) to be ragin
asciilifeform: *raging
mircea_popescu: anyway, it may be worth the contemplation to consider that bitcoin is the specific sort of thing you'd never have actually made specifically because its strengths are the sort of things you personally hate.
asciilifeform: ok nao i'm curious, how's that
asciilifeform: ?
mircea_popescu: take this "send tx" "well bro... there's no guarantees" item.
mircea_popescu: "wtf anti-civilised non-engineered process is this then!" "words are given man to hide his thoughts, bro"
asciilifeform: there is a palpable difference between 'hey bro this is usenet and no guarantees' and 'hey bro this is crack den and i'ma take yer mail and flush it down the shitter, no guarantees' imho
mircea_popescu: perhaps. but the CORRECT cut in there is a very high paygrade item.
mircea_popescu: which is what i meant re contemplation. not the sort of problem you usually enjoy, ergo not the sort of system you'd of your own choice make.
asciilifeform: i don't 'zoologically' despise noisy channels.
asciilifeform: i despise unquantifiably-noisy.
asciilifeform: because it can easily mean 'toilet' without any possibility of knowing so.
mircea_popescu: but the unquantifiable part is exactly the strength.
mircea_popescu: yes.
asciilifeform: unquantifiable engineering belongs in crack den.
mircea_popescu: depends. consider the problem of the jungle.
mircea_popescu: the jungle is a shitty forest no civilised man would wish to live in
mircea_popescu: except, of course, if fighting another civilised man.
asciilifeform: swamp probably better example
asciilifeform: but sure.
mircea_popescu: we got more than its weight in gold, to date, from the happenstance that bitcoin is made of ~pure shit.
asciilifeform: i remain unconvinced
mircea_popescu: specifically because the llvm heads discussed earlier apparently don't get very far.
mircea_popescu: moreover, it was historically trivial to predict their predicaments and ambush.
mircea_popescu: hey, i'm not trying to persuade, i am merely stating the possibility.
asciilifeform: x11, or gcc, etc are easily 1000x the volume of shit. and successfully llvm'd.
asciilifeform: because it is a problem that succumbs to brute labour.
mircea_popescu: specifically because it was contrived. the gcc shit is a conceit, not real shit.
asciilifeform: to briefly revisit upstack: in case this was unclear to anyone: goodbye-pingers ~breaks connectivity with stock trb~ and ought to be considered experimental/dangerous . it is not yet clear to me that the pill is an improvement over the disease.
mircea_popescu: not without it being complete (ie, also stop pinging).
asciilifeform: well the -revised ver. is.
asciilifeform: but even so.
mircea_popescu: myeah.
asciilifeform: i am rather surprised, i admit, that dulap is speaking to ~anyone~
mircea_popescu: a little bit of power rangering of your own hm ?
asciilifeform: yet is is nearly synced
mircea_popescu: some blocks get through in the brief interval.
asciilifeform: not at all this.
mircea_popescu: that's the moral here : just how resilient the shit is. amorphous therefore eternal.
asciilifeform: pingers are banned immediately
asciilifeform: none get anything through.
mircea_popescu: well, once they ping
asciilifeform: 454120 atm.
asciilifeform: (and digesting a block as we speak)
asciilifeform: 6 behind, e.g., bci.
asciilifeform: to clarify: dulap is running the revised patch.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it was marked (EXPERIMENTAL) for a reason!!11
mircea_popescu: you know, they usually do some statement of what's being experimented when they do an experiment.
asciilifeform: had link to mircea_popescu in l0gz!
mircea_popescu: so it did :)
mircea_popescu: "this is an experiment to establish the density of water. we will be using a densometer to measure it, expect to see values in so and so range, for so and so reasons" etc.
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D6A90653FEB0AD1726BEB5103A2FB09DCEE0DCABC7EFD7E6AE69679FB320E1D9 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1454...5509 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' ( CH)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D6A90653FEB0AD1726BEB5103A2FB09DCEE0DCABC7EFD7E6AE69679FB320E1D9 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1758...8439 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' ( CH)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'd like to leave dulap as it is , to see how this change affects blackhole, but it does carry some of the 'trucks of britain' problem (as described by mircea_popescu article -- 'trucks over 5 tonnes will experimentally drive on left side of road first!11')
mircea_popescu: experiment = 1. statement of phenomena being observed ; 2. description of experimental set-up and measuring tools ; 3. explanation of working theory and 4. statements of fact that stand to be falsified. all 4.
asciilifeform: 1. 'blackhole.' 2. tcpdump on two blackholed trb nodes. multitude of peers emitting 'ping, ping, ping...' and soaking up sockets. 3. hypothesis: killing socket hoggers will dissolve blackhole. 4. 'socket-hogging prb is responsible for blackhole condition'
mircea_popescu: yes but this is supposed to be done prior not ex post facto.
asciilifeform: (4) is unfortunately ultimately rubbish, it is really the single-threaded, polled socket handler of trb that is ultimately morally responsible.
mircea_popescu: there is that.
asciilifeform: but the option of removing it is not on the table.
asciilifeform: it is quite equivalent to scrapping the whole thing.
asciilifeform: (it'd require, absolutely, removing the locks. which ~unquantifiably alters the semantics of the entire thing.) ☟︎
mircea_popescu: btw, trump actually gave state to petraeus, at least on the declarative front. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: lulz of ALL FUCKING TIME.
asciilifeform: l0l!!
mircea_popescu: that's such an epic dead cat to hold over the libertards lmao
mircea_popescu: "hey, guess who wants to spitroast you all ? i... could put him in charge you know."
mircea_popescu: "and it'll piss a little on the courts too. seems like a great move. are you ready to suck the cock yet ?"
mircea_popescu: also he's tweeting off an ancient samsung galaxy. much to everyone's aghast anger.
asciilifeform: waiwa what 'should' he be doing it on
asciilifeform: cray?
mircea_popescu: well ostensibly not logging into an account that everyone now watches, because if it gets hijacked jets may get scrambled.
mircea_popescu: besides, if he has it on him, you know, like in a "sikrit place" like the whitehouse tree fort or under the covers, it could stagefright/illuminate teh "sikrits" usg supposedly has.
asciilifeform: the set of folx who can pump arbitrary crapola into it, is likely in the 100s, or 1000s
asciilifeform: (starting with twatter inc, then moving on to pnoje carrier, os vendor, et al)
mircea_popescu: “The president is the original classification authority so he has enormous discretion about when and under what circumstances to do that,” Zach Goldman, the executive director of NYU’s Center on Law and Security, told Gizmodo. “If he decides he wants to read classified documents in the open, I don’t know what the intelligence community can do about that.”
mircea_popescu: total and utter despair, the 15yos going "dad owns the house, he could technically chop down the tree, and there's nothing we can do to prove to him it's really ygdrasil!!1"
mircea_popescu: "but our d&d game!!1" "yeah i know, totally!!1"
asciilifeform: somehow being 'original classification authority' didn't help carter not be thrown out 'and don't ever come back, or ask again' from groom lake '51' .
mircea_popescu: what can i tell ye.
trinque: carter could get thrown out of anywhere
trinque: in the particular instance mentioned, guy was what, "oh I'll tell everyone about the aliens once I get in there!11!"
BingoBoingo: Carter was terrified by a bunny rabbit
trinque: got in, realized he was an idiot and it was cover for ICBMs and SR-71s
ben_vulpes: petraeus for state oh that's rich
mircea_popescu: oya.
mircea_popescu: "i have this guy, and if you don't like him... i have another."
mircea_popescu: "you won't like that other one."
hanbot: why not Cher, at that rate
mircea_popescu: ahaha totally.
mircea_popescu: "and tonight in Department of State and Ginzu Knives, CHER AND SONY BOOOONOOO!!!!"
mircea_popescu: "he was a senvernor you know!"
mircea_popescu: or what was he, mayor of seattle ?
hanbot: seattle, schenectady, something
mircea_popescu: i thought new york chartered towns get ceos not mayors.
deedbot: http://thewhet.net/2017/yankee-doodle-henry-part-ii/ << The Whet - Yankee Doodle Henry, Part II
mircea_popescu: hanbot that's a pretty freaky series you got going there
BingoBoingo can't wait to hear what the SADFAG of the day is!
mircea_popescu: totally.
ben_vulpes: "Fact: Adversarial examples generalize across models trained to perform the same task, even if those models have different architectures and were trained on a different training set. This means an attacker can train their own model, generate adversarial examples against it, and then deploy those adversarial examples against a model they do not have access to."
ben_vulpes: http://www.kdnuggets.com/2015/07/deep-learning-adversarial-examples-misconceptions.html
mircea_popescu: yes yes, except it's as far from a fact as it could possibly get. it is, in nucet, the HOPE of usg "ai" work.
ben_vulpes: to use it against other 'ai'?
mircea_popescu: they need it, the wunderwaffen response to the http://trilema.com/2014/spamming-reddit-an-experiment/ problem ; the republic does not, http://trilema.com/2014/advanced-wot-course-how-the-wot-is-attacked-and-how-it-defends-itself/ etc.
mircea_popescu: in simple words, "the only hope of an our democracy surviving the republican age is if some mechanical method to turn noise into sense is devised"
mircea_popescu: this is correct, but also hardly a fact. just the constraint.
mircea_popescu: how exactly "in order for you to exist, water must be pink and freely float in the atmosphere" turned into "fact: water is pink and freely floats in the atmosphere" has a lot to do with the hidden "i necessarily must exist" prior.
mircea_popescu: other than the (actual) fact that there's nothing necessary about existence, perfectly sound AAA+++ science. would worship again.
ben_vulpes: i don't hafta toss my sims out too, do i?
mircea_popescu: i don't see why.
ben_vulpes rummages for the ultralight 'bigdog' sketches
mircea_popescu: anyway, there's a common thread going through the google go ai, attempts to "secure the banking system against risk", the surveillance state / internet of things / smart cars and so on. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: that common thread is nothing novel - the socialist state through its central planning committee encounters the unknowns problem. for as long as that is not resolved, the socialist state is doomed in principle.
mircea_popescu: much like ancient chinese emperors had a very firm limit on their reign. no matter what anyone said, their divinity however described still ends one day.
mircea_popescu: so they did what they could do, invest in immortality pill research.
ben_vulpes: 'ai' to handle the unexpected situation/'unknowns problem'?
mircea_popescu: similarly here, every socialist state since hobbes' leviathan made some attempt to subjugate aquitaine, that horrifying heterodox place where riches spring from the very soil.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes some basis upon which a single authority may stand. see the problem with the reality function is that it does not have calculable maxima.
mircea_popescu: you may find a maximum, but it will be localized. this is no good.
mircea_popescu: for as long as reality resists formulation, there can't be properly speaking globalization in any meaningful sense ; just the pretense of it readily defeated in practice.
mircea_popescu: now, that this quest is doomed should be obvious. but what's the emperor to do, accept facts ? no teenager yet has admitted his inferiority to their archnemesis cum rival yet. it's just not the way of the highschool. and so...
ben_vulpes: aah. hey is the fed ai yet?
mircea_popescu: they try.
mircea_popescu: well... it's a alright. the i...
ben_vulpes: hue
ben_vulpes: i discern that people are really bad drivers
mircea_popescu: and bitcoin is really a terrible network
mircea_popescu: see the pattern ?
ben_vulpes: hah
ben_vulpes: yeah, meatsacks shouldn't operate their own road ice.
mircea_popescu: MOST meatsacks shouldn't do anything.
ben_vulpes off
ben_vulpes: mhm "even google ai is better at driving than most people"
ben_vulpes: later
shinohai: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-22#1616687 <<< Just finished 2 builds, running one now asciilifeform ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-02-22 04:00 mod6: [nao building with v 99994A1 asciilifeform_goodbye_pingers_fixed.vpatch]
asciilifeform: in other noose, the goodbye_pingers experiment is not a mega-success, dulap is 30+ blox behind
asciilifeform: considering that it cuts off stock trb -- it is surprising that it was at any point caught up.
asciilifeform: i'ma give it another day and then roll back.
asciilifeform: but meanwhile, in comedic theatre, https://archive.is/NvRz0 >> 'This is an announcement about CVE-2017-6074 [1] which is a double-free vulnerability I found in the Linux kernel. It can be exploited to gain kernel code execution from an unprivileged processes.'
asciilifeform: 'The oldest version that was checked is 2.6.18 (Sep 2006), which is vulnerable. However, the bug was introduced before that, probably in the first release with DCCP support (2.6.14, Oct 2005). The kernel needs to be built with CONFIG_IP_DCCP for the vulnerability to be present. A lot of modern distributions enable this option by default.'
asciilifeform: $ zcat /proc/config.gz | grep DCCP
asciilifeform: # CONFIG_IP_DCCP is not set
asciilifeform apparently not 'modern'
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/C30AA4DAEC55910C94B5E32B7B847E3D84DA19A0160ACB16424A6913156B5CD4 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1398...1177 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (ip077244251098.rev.nessus.at. AT)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/C30AA4DAEC55910C94B5E32B7B847E3D84DA19A0160ACB16424A6913156B5CD4 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1552...8749 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (ip077244251098.rev.nessus.at. AT)
asciilifeform: https://www.nessus.at << lel, not the famous nessus.
asciilifeform: but some derpatron, 'NESSUS GmbH.'
asciilifeform: in other lulz, 'IN THE PURSUIT OF UNTHINK In order to let our collective curiosities be the ultimate guide in our journey to pursue the meaningful opportunities of tomorrow, we are always looking to assemble a talent pool, that is not just content with thinking differently, but thinks a whole lot differently. We like to call this phenomenon 'unthink' and Gaditek is 'where unthink is'.' ( http://www.gaditek.com -- runs a prb node. )
asciilifeform: parody horizon.
jurov: https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=603790 "Assignee: ada@gentoo.org → maintainer-needed@gentoo.org"
jurov: no adaists anymore in gentoo
asciilifeform: jurov: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-02-17#1022777 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2015-02-17 23:08 asciilifeform: gnat-4.3.5 is a working gentoo ebuild
asciilifeform: jurov: i blew ~month on this horror.
jurov: ow
asciilifeform: for completeness i will also point out that adacore's tarball will, with some handholding, build.
asciilifeform: problem is: you need a working existing ada !
asciilifeform: to build any gnat.
asciilifeform: catch22.
asciilifeform: (same problem as gcc, but difference is, gcc will -- theoretically -- build on certain other compilers, though i have nfi when anyone last attempted this. but there are not and never were any open alternatives to gnat.)
asciilifeform: there is a dark heathen world of proprietary ada compilers, mostly for winblowz, but they are so rare, you will find them on no warez, anywhere.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-02-16#1020624 << see also thread ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2015-02-16 06:17 asciilifeform: so the 'google finds unique strings' thing, sure - can we conclude that i'm the only one alive trying to build 'gnat' on 'gentoo' ?
asciilifeform: http://trilema.com/2015/youve-made-the-bed-enjoy-dying-in-it << thread was memorialized, apparently, on mircea_popescu's www
asciilifeform: in other noose, http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/jJ7iS/?raw=true << on a traditional (zoolag) trb node. i never once saw these in past log readings, and now they are quite common.
asciilifeform: e.g., 'ProcessMessage(inv, 37 bytes) : CHECKSUM ERROR nChecksum=812df086 hdr.nChecksum=e2d894ca'
asciilifeform: either peculiarly broken clients have proliferated, or somebody's flipping bits on the wire...
asciilifeform: !~later tell ben_vulpes the alert messages said 'URGENT: Alert key compromised, upgrade required.' iirc this was part of prb's scheduled retirement of the alert crapola.
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: ty asciilifeform
mircea_popescu: and in other lulz, http://68.media.tumblr.com/a42985808d79ae56347dae7105d9fab4/tumblr_olr2iiYWGU1u7ekixo1_1280.jpg
asciilifeform: colour me thick -- what is happening in this photo ..?
mircea_popescu: a man with a functionally inadequate reproductive organ has adorned his squalid abode with what purports to be cocaine.
asciilifeform: doesn't cocaine ~shrink~ cocks ..?
mircea_popescu: yes.
asciilifeform: seems like somebody flipped a sign bit somewhere.
mircea_popescu: that's the source of humour : that he's a walking stereotype and apparently unaware.
mircea_popescu: drug abuse promotes poor hygiene, cocaine shrinks cocks, you name it.
mircea_popescu: and here's something for bb http://68.media.tumblr.com/81e74c612c12391f05e76d733cbcf93f/tumblr_olmr0shnnR1u7ekixo1_1280.jpg
mircea_popescu: or i guess shinohai
shinohai: Creamed filled yet
mircea_popescu: "what's the ultimate in orgasms ?" "to come powder. out your ass."
shinohai: Googling "Powder orgasms" returns: http://www.pornhub.com/view_video.php?viewkey=ph56d5984327ba3
mircea_popescu: sounds bout right.
trinque: but why
trinque: logic being, I guess, if I can't smell the fart AT LEAST I CAN SEE IT
trinque: people are strange
mircea_popescu: to continue our foray into cheap whoredom, http://68.media.tumblr.com/e348df8f30923111808ad8bb48d2b16f/tumblr_o7hlmyLdGv1tj8lt3o1_1280.jpg
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/iOsua << in other lulz. Ur-fearing bitcoin, old lizard starts push of chumps into ye olde paperizable gold.
mircea_popescu: the fourth marx brother!
asciilifeform: in other noose, dulap is caught up.
asciilifeform: the ping thing did some ill, and an unknown, possibly null, amount of good.
asciilifeform: currently 9 peers.
mircea_popescu: 4 blocks in the past EIGHTY MINUTES.
mircea_popescu: and some weird behaviours in the mempool.
mircea_popescu: and in today's dose of monster wtf : "<DicePower> So like, the 0.1.2b .tar.gz contains multiple files with the same name but of different case, i.e., EuloraV0.1.2\art\Graveyard~ and EuloraV0.1.2\art\GRAVEYARD~ which Windows wants to fix by overwriting one when the .tar is unzipped. What is the proper course of action to avoid later linking errors, etc.?"
mircea_popescu: dude, really ?
veen: https://archive.is/x57D1 << "NASA…has discovered a new solar system [with] three [planets] that sit squarely in the so-called ‘habitable zone,’ meaning that there is the potential for liquid water: the key for life on another planet."
veen: ^^ life’s hard dep on liquid water, choice fallacy of modern astronomy.
mircea_popescu: isn';t it ?
veen: as long as you define life to mean life like we have on earth
mircea_popescu: well it's kind-of the interest no ? "can trump build hotel resort"
ben_vulpes: the search for life that's more or less pretty much just like us, so far away as to provide a nice escape out of having to do anything other than write grants
veen: i perceive the interest to be more zoological
veen: rule out metabolic pathways that spontaneously arose in oceans of methane and the search is ~guaranteed to come up dry
mircea_popescu: even entertaining the zoological angle. what alternative pump do you envisage ?
mircea_popescu: understand that water is important because it does (at least) two pumps simultaneously. firstly the heat pump, secondly the synthesis pump. it is : a) an oxide (this means it doesn't burn -- not just "not in oxygen" but not in general, few elements are more reacrtive to substitute) which b) has an immense caloric capacity and also c) is a very powerful universal solvent.
mircea_popescu: this makes it a major schelling point for lifebuilding. do you know of an alternative material or combination that could serve ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: say, CCl4
mircea_popescu: low cc.
veen: i'm no expert in the field of biochemistry, but i'm aware models have been proposed
mircea_popescu: your planet will either need large oceans of something else (what ? water ? then water-life will take over) or else will experience large temperature swings
asciilifeform: bit circular, neh. lower-cc-than-water . could still suffice.
mircea_popescu: iirc it was 146 to water's 4k
veen: hypothetically ammonia and various hydrocarbons could do the trick
mircea_popescu: these more-than-order-of-magnitude differentials matter in engineering.\
veen: mircea_popescu: 'cc'?
mircea_popescu: veen if you bother to do the math you'll see there's actually pretty good reason to suspect life ~= water within three or so sigmas.
ben_vulpes: caloric capacity
mircea_popescu: yeah.
ben_vulpes: aka heat required to raise a gram of the material 1c
veen: ah specific heat
mircea_popescu: "pour ammonia on it" won't work nearly as well when your alt-lifeforms manage to start a kitchen fire out of icecubes and alt-wood shavings.
veen wonders if specific heat varies with pressure
mircea_popescu: does not.
mircea_popescu: it is a proxy of molecular interaction strength.
mircea_popescu: unless your idea of pressure is "degenerate matter", it dun matter.
asciilifeform: certainly varies with phase!
asciilifeform: consider water.
mircea_popescu: yes with phase. but your life will contain liquid most likely. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in other fluids, https://68.media.tumblr.com/74197ec1120e912f88282821bd2b55cd/tumblr_oj5xe2Vf2C1vaj9mco1_1280.jpg
shinohai: Now that is non-Newtonian fluid I can get behind.
mircea_popescu: lel
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-22#1616940 << mircea_popescu doesn't, apparently, sweat..! ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-02-22 21:28 mircea_popescu: yes with phase. but your life will contain liquid most likely.
mircea_popescu: i don't follow ?
asciilifeform: the other phase
mircea_popescu: yes, so there's a latent phasechange heat of what, 17k or so, roughly 4 degree's worth.
mircea_popescu: considering you're about 50kgs of water and 50grams of sweat, i hardly see the difference.
mircea_popescu: point being, a gas phase lifeform is rather unlikely, and a solid phase one'd be utterly slow.
mircea_popescu: but in any case the pressurizing of a gas won't yield significant caloric capacity to matter in this discussion.
asciilifeform: for the sake of properly massaging subj -- why not gas phase ?
mircea_popescu: same reason no cold phusion
mircea_popescu: disperses
asciilifeform: hot, then, fusion, for this example. but sure.
mircea_popescu: and speaking of hot fusion, http://68.media.tumblr.com/ef5d3d3edb7caafc86edadfe0dc2c984/tumblr_ochyum94Xl1t89i36o1_1280.jpg
ben_vulpes: looks like a rerun
mircea_popescu: no ?