punkman: choosing a position in toposorted list for pressing was just a hack to keep things simple
ben_vulpes: and thank you for reporting per my ask.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55608 @ 0.00055514 = 30.8702 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 114250 @ 0.00055285 = 63.1631 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17870 @ 0.00055586 = 9.9332 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: punkman: Feel free to qntra it up I got a meeting to get to.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 415813 @ 0.00056296 = 234.0861 BTC [+] {8}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3432 @ 0.00056417 = 1.9362 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83175 @ 0.00055921 = 46.5123 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79800 @ 0.00056567 = 45.1405 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28500 @ 0.00056676 = 16.1527 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Not bad. Quite a few visitors for a sunday meeting
ben_vulpes: you've been in it for what, 2 months at this point?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78628 @ 0.00056701 = 44.5829 BTC [+] {3}
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Better than hats, they do coins for 1, 3, 6, and then every year.
mircea_popescu: no idea why i'm reading random blather about the human fund - money for people. or w/e
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 368.95, vol: 4409.94441176 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 375.493, vol: 3441.25724 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 366.85, vol: 20204.78414813 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 369.0, vol: 0.03261465 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 375.360084, vol: 33446.40800000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 369.62307, vol: 241.10449841 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 381.111934904, vol: 33.66723239 | Volume-weighted last (1 more message)
gribble: Bitstamp BTCEUR last: 340.09811, vol: 4409.94441176 | BTC-E BTCEUR last: 345.15, vol: 45.68 | CampBX BTCEUR last: 340.1442, vol: 0.03261465 | BTCChina BTCEUR last: 346.283202, vol: 33447.39620000 | Kraken BTCEUR last: 343.99974, vol: 2854.81219994 | Bitcoin-Central BTCEUR last: 351.31999899, vol: 33.66723239 | Volume-weighted last average: 345.457610149
gribble: Bitstamp BTCJPY last: 44751.79025, vol: 4417.71642254 | BTC-E BTCJPY last: 45545.180845, vol: 3441.55924 | CampBX BTCJPY last: 44757.855, vol: 0.03261465 | BTCChina BTCJPY last: 45564.6627, vol: 33447.72720000 | Kraken BTCJPY last: 44000.0, vol: 29.32626815 | Bitcoin-Central BTCJPY last: 46224.9288671, vol: 33.66723239 | Volume-weighted last average: 45475.6666147
gribble: BTCChina BTCRMB last: 2477.0, vol: 33448.04360000 | Volume-weighted last average: 2477.0
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76000 @ 0.00056629 = 43.038 BTC [-]
phf: a curio for the lisp aficionados
http://mumble.net/~jar/pseudoscheme/ an implementation of scheme in common lisp forward ported from lisp machines. a precursor to scheme48, so gets a lot of things right
ben_vulpes: i've been trying to read the tinyscheme sources
ben_vulpes: did not know that tear ducts could weep blood
phf: or rather instead :D
ben_vulpes: one of the things that remains a mystery to me is the recompilation facilities supporting slime et al
ben_vulpes: although that's probably more accurately strictly a SBCL thing.
ben_vulpes: seventy six eighty on MOTHERFUCKING KINDLE?!
mircea_popescu: awww, but all this technology was here to make books cheap and accessible!
BingoBoingo: Hey, Amazon will buy your copy for a $25 gift card though!
mircea_popescu: what, you thought they're only selling at 0.95 for a few years until barnes and noble goes under ?
ben_vulpes: the notion that there is any price for bits not agreed upon by a bid by people who want the bits and an opening of the floodgates by those who have them at an accepable rate is utter horseshit.
mircea_popescu: the notion of some retard somewhere paying a hundred he actually worked for so as to receive a pdf still makes me chuckle.
ben_vulpes: those curly horns don't look too fun, but whaddoiknow
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75800 @ 0.00056672 = 42.9574 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: know anything about deleuze and guatarri in the context of intertextuality?
copypaste: i have a kindle, but never use the store feature.
copypaste: also, i liked your attempt at the merchant rewrite mircea_popescu :)
BingoBoingo: If you need to invoke intertextuality for any reason, your problem is likely wrong.
mircea_popescu: i also know something about finkielkraut and that other fuckwit in the context of amorous disorder.
ben_vulpes: i don't know anything about the topic!
BingoBoingo: Maybe people can actually use it in french, but in the English language if you invoke it, there is a near certainty you and your problem are wrong.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109479 @ 0.00056618 = 61.9848 BTC [-] {5}
ben_vulpes: but no, i am a classically poorly-read american.
ben_vulpes: still working through scip, and even that's deficit spending.
phf: i spent some time playing a lot of kriegspiel with a friend of mine
ben_vulpes: perhaps reference Bitcoin implementation instead of daemon, as daemon refers to how a process gets handled by whatever nix is handling procs locally
ben_vulpes: i will continue to drive for "reference implementation" over "real bitcoin" or such grandiosities
mircea_popescu: anyway, to summarize a century or two of purely french wankery for the benefit of the youthful lisper : what the publish&perish industry did in english on the basis of the bastardized electronic typewriter known as excel is not NEW in any sense, but merely a reimplementation of a traditional french passtime, originally played on more primitive instruments.
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Until it's BitcoinOS it's a daemon. It's important to refer to it as a number of descriptive things for legacy www reasons.
mircea_popescu: deleuze is exactly a worthless word pusher, trying to do "the x of y" like any silicon valley wanna-be. his "x of the y" is a silly "no identity exists save as a piling-on of differences"
mircea_popescu: but basically, and transparently, the driving force behind him, and the whole rest, is "what could we further say".
ben_vulpes: i'm always interested in finding the root nodes the 'further say'ers metastasized from
mircea_popescu: have we said that the icecream is square ? o ? how about the square is icecream ? that too? hmm... "icecream square is that" no ?
mircea_popescu: but these are treacherous waters and really not advisable for the innocent.
mircea_popescu: especially seeing how there's exactly no benefit to be had.
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Husserl is something of a root node, you can get to him through kant->Fichte->Hegel->Marx
mircea_popescu: oh, and your mentioning kant reminds me : the whole "time is imposed by the observer" nonsense, also.
BingoBoingo: Distinct problem though is lots of oversized patches in this V graph
mircea_popescu: al these khagne idjits'd have benefitted immensely from a modest physical education.
BingoBoingo: Well, what other conclusion is a bored German to come to?
BingoBoingo: He came from Prussia, not a Germany with clocks at the time
mircea_popescu: not that time's a prime order concept, but that it's both sad and unbecoming to field the matter with antiquated flintlocks left from 1700.
mircea_popescu: there's a lot more intelligent things to say about time, and certainly better doubts to present than "oh it's secreted by observation". especially in the fucking 60s.
BingoBoingo: It's a problem of making V patches too big, turds find a way
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: heh. i was actually taking a look at that trilema earlier today. if gabrielradio wants to lay the foundation, i'd be happy to build the house.
assbot: If having more no longer satisfies us, perhaps we’ve reached ‘peak stuff’ | Will Hutton | Opinion | The Guardian ... (
http://bit.ly/1OZE1Cp )
assbot: Logged on 28-01-2016 13:21:58; mircea_popescu: it's a combination of multisecular trends. one is a hate of plastics, that has been brewing for at least five decades. the other is a hate of self, that;s been brewing since ww2, and that expresses itself variously, but for instance in current "carbon"-ecology.
pete_dushenski: in summa : "we should be less individualistic and more like the cattle we properly are. let's stop pretending to be something we're not"
assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 19:22:50; phf: oh, if you remove joe from wot, v finds an alternative path
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 139050 @ 0.00056188 = 78.1294 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77086 @ 0.0005599 = 43.1605 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Teenage girl admits making up migrant rape claim that outraged Germany | World news | The Guardian ... (
http://bit.ly/1Tw1i24 )
mircea_popescu: so are we going to believe the admission of the girl that admits she lied ?
mircea_popescu: or are we going to think she was true the first time and is lying now ?
mircea_popescu: well moreover, a lot of people would a whole lot rather believe it never happened. so...
pete_dushenski: i'd leave a comment bringing this very point up but... the guardian has disabled all comments.
BingoBoingo: "But when she was questioned by trained specialists three days later “she immediately admitted that the story of the rape was not true”, said the spokesman for the state prosecutor, Martin Steltner. "
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77881 @ 0.00056162 = 43.7395 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: Prolly by making a pot of coffee before you settle down.
assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 21:48:22; mircea_popescu: hey alf, how about you move out of the us ? hm ? HM ?
assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 21:56:45; ben_vulpes: anyways, mod6 you gotta upgrade v.pl to press *all* reachable leaves. that's the problem i'm running into with asciilifeform's recent shiva rebake
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 15:38:47; ascii_butugychag: i suppose this is when i restate my rage at the idiocy of gnudiff
mod6: <+asciilifeform> IT BUILDS FINE HERE << huh, maybe i didn't clean?? i'll try again.
mod6: thanks for taking a look at that. did you see my replacement patch then?
assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 22:16:46; mircea_popescu: i originally thought so but research in here shows that no, it's never checked.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12968 @ 0.00055763 = 7.2313 BTC [-] {2}
mod6: mine? should have. is basically the same as yours just instead with 'extern int VERSION;'
mod6: gotta get it to link correctly tho.
assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 22:33:31; mircea_popescu: anyone thinking diapers are cheap is not-poor in the us
mod6: <+asciilifeform> did you make it directly from my 2 patches (old + new) ? << no didn't even try that yet. just went straight into integration of both into one. kinda got side tracked with the SoBA and then watched some xfiles. heheh.
BingoBoingo prolly going to pick up dead tree SICP in the next month or so
mod6: yeah, i dunno, i got the same problem again just now.
assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 22:38:37; ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: would you confirm that tinyscheme_genesis_fixed.vpatch does *not* depend on shiva parts one and two?
assbot: Logged on 01-02-2016 05:13:31; asciilifeform: ^^^^^ mandatory thread ^^^^^
mod6: even after a clean.
mod6: yah, will try here now.
assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 22:44:06; phf: so i dropped patches from "[BTC-dev] Tinyscheme Genesis, Cleanup, and Fixes, CORRECTED; -and- Shiva Pedigree Bridge." but i'm still missing something so they are just hanging there separately,
http://104.131.72.249/patches/ assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 22:48:49; mircea_popescu: i guess i fucked it up when putting it on trilema ? asciilifeform ^ mind saying what the above link does ?
assbot: Logged on 01-02-2016 03:15:55; ben_vulpes: a hundred and eleven fucking dollars!?
ben_vulpes: ask me how many fuxx i give when trying to wire patches
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: joy of deficit spending here is that i complain about price of bits and find they're free.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63950 @ 0.00055752 = 35.6534 BTC [-] {2}
ben_vulpes: a gpggram would be lovely, or a .tgz i can scrape down from your server
ben_vulpes: thank you for pointing out the inadequacy of everything.
mod6: asciilifeform: yeah, i dunno what i screwed up with that integration patch of mine, but yeah, your vpatch fix pressed and compiled fine.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35907 @ 0.00056188 = 20.1754 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66526 @ 0.00056332 = 37.4754 BTC [+] {2}
mod6: Bitcoin version 0.9.99.98
mod6: <+asciilifeform> counting to what, zero ? << it did show in the log already when i started with -setvernum=99998
mod6: so far, this is good.
mod6: gonna check getinfo in a sec.
mod6: # ps ax | grep bitcoind && LC_ALL=C ./bitcoind -datadir=/mnt/btc-dev/.bitcoin getinfo | grep version
mod6: 22877 pts/1 SLl 0:54 ./bitcoind -datadir=/mnt/btc-dev/.bitcoin -myip=127.0.0.1 -addnode=188.68.240.159 -setverstring=trb -setvernum=99998
mod6: 22900 pts/1 S+ 0:00 grep --colour=auto bitcoind "version" : 99998,
renart: asciilifeform: for lulz, dcc it to me again?
mod6: there is supposed to be a line break up here ^ but didn't translate through the copy
mod6: i'll see if i can figure out wtf I did differently tomorrow.
mod6: ok will look again at it tomorrow. thanks ascii, g'night!
ben_vulpes: also how is 40M too large for a webserver?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13435 @ 0.00055867 = 7.5057 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46273 @ 0.00056055 = 25.9383 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28831 @ 0.00056578 = 16.312 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44600 @ 0.00056358 = 25.1357 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44550 @ 0.0005571 = 24.8188 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 104100 @ 0.00056602 = 58.9227 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15700 @ 0.00056671 = 8.8973 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: lol even vex has commentary on the dccpisode
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 401 @ 0.0035 = 1.4035 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72700 @ 0.00056661 = 41.1925 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17386 @ 0.00056661 = 9.8511 BTC [-]
deedbot-: imported: 9E08524833CB3038FDE385C54C0AFCCFED5CDE14
assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 18:13:52; mod6: danielpbarron: hey there Sir, wanna update the wiki & test the steps from a newb standpoint when you get a moment? Y^
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 134300 @ 0.00056671 = 76.1092 BTC [+]
danielpbarron: >> Sometimes regular expressions can get messy. That's what she sed. << found on twatter. laughed.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54400 @ 0.00056671 = 30.829 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5600 @ 0.00056652 = 3.1725 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44300 @ 0.00056621 = 25.0831 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79600 @ 0.00056684 = 45.1205 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100552 @ 0.00056612 = 56.9245 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 138624 @ 0.00056278 = 78.0148 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14550 @ 0.00056323 = 8.195 BTC [+] {2}
punkman: re:deleuze&guattari: Once upon a time I was scrolling through a big pile 1337 w4r3z, and I saw "A Thousand Plateaus: Capitalism and Schizophrenia" and I thought "maybe that'll be interesting". I opened it on my crappy ebook tablet, flipped through some pages. The moment I thought "this shit's unreadable isn't it", the tablet died, never to come back.
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 284750 @ 0.00056144 = 159.87 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 130300 @ 0.00056671 = 73.8423 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64200 @ 0.00056339 = 36.1696 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: finishing a little earth shatter of my own right now :D
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39857 @ 0.00056702 = 22.5997 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34843 @ 0.00056711 = 19.7598 BTC [+] {2}
copypaste: kakobrekla: I'd like to make a request if you have a moment. When I get my OTP from assbot, it sends the header `Content-Type: application/json; charset=utf-8` ... This causes my browser to incorrectly interpret GnuPG documents as JSON, so it spews annoying errors which prevent me from just doing Ctrl-A Ctrl-C...to wit, "There was an error parsing the JSON document. The document may not be
copypaste: well-formed." "unexpected character at line 1 column 1 "
PeterL: It looks like it is going through the list, trying to connect to each node and repeatedly getting disconnected, should I stop it and restart only connect to the one node which is connected?
PeterL: well I am connected to something, not sure which one it is
kakobrekla: you must be getting banned by that banhammer patch
copypaste: kakobrekla: yes, text/plain is perfect. thanks
jurov: straight from horse's mouth: "With the end of Moore’s Law, the cadence at which servers are refreshed with new and improved hardware in the datacenter is likely to slow significantly."
PeterL: Now I have 3 connections
PeterL: is there a way to list the connections?
BingoBoingo: "But the study also showed that when holding guns in more realistic simulations, the same officers were faster to shoot whites."
BingoBoingo: "The report says that in realistic situations, the officers waited about a quarter of a second longer to shoot armed black men than white — and they fired by mistake on unarmed white men three times more often than on blacks."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54600 @ 0.00056712 = 30.9648 BTC [+]
assbot: The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... (
http://bit.ly/1Q70TOa )
assbot: RPC: add 'getpeerinfo', returning easy-to-retrieve per-CNode data · bitcoin/bitcoin@1006f07 · GitHub ... (
http://bit.ly/1Q715gi )
polarbeard: mircea_popescu: is there any reason against that one? I miss it too
mircea_popescu: they'll prolly want to do it in scheme now. but anyway, if you want it for production reasons, go right ahead.
jurov: mod6 ben_vulpes asciilifeform : do I understand right sha512 is hardwired in V? is there a space for sane upgrade path?
☟︎ polarbeard: aha I see, but maybe ascii can trash the jsonrpc part and keep the functionality itself?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 133423 @ 0.00056497 = 75.38 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: polarbeard it won't hurt anything writing a backport patch for it if you feel like it.
mircea_popescu: whether it'll be used or not is unclear, so i wouldn't TELL you to do it, but if you want to do it by all means.
BingoBoingo: polarbeard: But if you could write that funtionality in Scheme, you might get some love for it.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo for the record, the one most important factor in how long they wait to shoot should be and probably is "how weird this shit is".
mircea_popescu: as in they'd prolly shoot aliens even faster. so in this sense, the study's useless without looking at what environment those guys operate in.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo eh it's unclear whether that can be done just yet or not. whole different kettle of soup.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I dunno, they shot Lavoy Finicum pretty fast.
assbot: Logged on 01-02-2016 05:04:44; BingoBoingo: "But when she was questioned by trained specialists three days later “she immediately admitted that the story of the rape was not true”, said the spokesman for the state prosecutor, Martin Steltner. "
mircea_popescu: what a grand time for the state that was! for the first time ever it got its way with everyones' children
polarbeard: BingoBoingo: that's a good idea, I'll try after backporting this one
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Well it's the german "trained experts" so who knows
assbot: BitBet - Connor McDavid will live up to the hype :: 0.45 B (3%) on Yes, 12.72 B (97%) on No | closed 1 day 14 hours ago ... (
http://bit.ly/1Q72HH2 )
assbot: Logged on 01-02-2016 05:19:55; pete_dushenski: myea, i don't think we go through $1/day of diapers
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48809 @ 0.00056424 = 27.54 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Logged on 01-02-2016 11:59:31; punkman: re:deleuze&guattari: Once upon a time I was scrolling through a big pile 1337 w4r3z, and I saw "A Thousand Plateaus: Capitalism and Schizophrenia" and I thought "maybe that'll be interesting". I opened it on my crappy ebook tablet, flipped through some pages. The moment I thought "this shit's unreadable isn't it", the tablet died, never to come back.
mircea_popescu: polarbeard don't put commas immediately after urls it fucks things up
mircea_popescu: perhaps i'm not understanding something, but where's all the list of fixed returns ?
mircea_popescu: your original thing had a lot of - return ; + return (hey we fucked up at %d);
phf: jurov: v uses hash as a lookup key, so in that sense algo agnostic. you can mix and match as long as from and to hashes linkup
mircea_popescu: polarbeard do you have the tags you use enumerated anywhere ?
mircea_popescu: omfg what is the purpose of putting clicable line numbers in github if all they do is blink. GIMME AN ANCHOR MOTHERFUCKING IDIOTS
polarbeard: do they blink? what do you use mosaic? :D
polarbeard: click on first line number, then second, it makes a range
mircea_popescu: ok polarbeard if you don't mind we'll use his version it's about 500 times better than github
phf: mircea_popescu: a domain name
mircea_popescu: any idea what these are ? how they were selected ? etc ?
phf: mircea_popescu: just point whatever you have to that ip, and i'll fix the settings to get it working
polarbeard: mircea_popescu: you mean how those macro strings are actually used?
mircea_popescu: i dunno if you see this, but the way the flags are set impacts many people downstream.
mircea_popescu: because if i want to search my logs ima have to use your flags.
mircea_popescu: well we're not there yet, so far just asking how you designed it / how you selected the list etc.
polarbeard: oh, three chars were long enough to identify each label, while being short enough to not add many dead bytes to the log
mircea_popescu: yes but which flags are used for which kind of messages, how we select the kinds, that sorta thing
mircea_popescu: what's your rulebook to know what message goes in which flag ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109991 @ 0.00056288 = 61.9117 BTC [-] {4}
polarbeard: ok, that requires some explanation, you're right
polarbeard: priorities are clear? infos are totally harmless, warns alert about something actually done and errors alert about the impossibility to do something
mircea_popescu: well at this level yes, but we'll see more once i actually go throuygh the list, rulebook in hand.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86569 @ 0.00056138 = 48.5981 BTC [-]
polarbeard: ok, PRC is about the process (there is only a few msgs about that one), MEM is the mempool (IO and verification), ADR is the address index, BLK is about the block index (IO and verification), NET is about all the p2p traffic, WAL is about the wallet, MIN is about the miner process
mircea_popescu: phf set up an A record, should do the trick, hopefully.
mircea_popescu: and these are prefixed by I W or A for info warn or alert ?
polarbeard: SINF -> info, SWAR -> warn, SERR -> err
mircea_popescu: anyway, as a general comment : next time start the whole process by designing this. it's a great spot to start!
polarbeard: yes, I need to get used to document stuff, I'll submit as much as I can to the ml if it passes
assbot: Current Bitcoin XT contains a network splitting bug. Rather than behaving responsibly, the maintainers of BitcoinXT are smearing the developers of Bitcoin Core (whom had nothing to do with their bug). : bitcoinxt ... (
http://bit.ly/1SxDYQC )
BingoBoingo: I came in in time to do a pretty fresh forensics on that lol
thestringpuller: The r/btc will eat it up "If we include this change we may get a blocksize increase yay!!!!1111"
mircea_popescu: polarbeard aite. ima slog through this, mind you that it's 2k lines will take hours.
polarbeard: mircea_popescu: totally understandable, I wanted to split that ones in two steps: first adding labels and then modifying the messages, but that would have ended in having 4k lines :)
polarbeard: mircea_popescu: mmm for me the ranges in that site don't work, which line is it?
mircea_popescu: + printf(SERR SBLK "can't create database file %s\n", strFileRes.c_str());
Tasoshi: So Satoshi's great test to determine whether bitcoin can operate through decentralised consensus is now on. mircea_popescu, I have been looking at some old posts and it seemed that in 2013 you agreed with Satoshi and his vision. What exactly did you learn in 2013 to turn yourself against Satoshi's vision itself?
Tasoshi: I am sure you know your own history better than I
punkman: mircea_popescu: re:sha3-digest, here's one idea, asic miners can get around recalculating the digest on every hash by changing the merkle-root/timestamp instead of the nonce
Tasoshi: to scale on chain so as to give the security and privacy of onchain transactions to all
mircea_popescu: won't be too easy tho, asic needs EVEN MORE ram that way.
mircea_popescu: (miners currently use this incidentally, to some degree)
BingoBoingo: Tasoshi: Seriously give the Bitcoin code a read. Version 0.3.21, 0.5.4, 0.7.2, and 0.8 are all essential reading
Tasoshi: I am enquiring what exactly changed your opinion in 2013?
Tasoshi: is one propaganta video sufficient to turn you all against the genius of satoshi?
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: Which is why It's on the reading list
assbot: Tasoshi is not registered in WoT.
mircea_popescu: polarbeard incidentally, did you leave any nude returns ?
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: i disagree that the mega-turd that touches 10,000 lines is justified.
Tasoshi: I mean, it is true isn't it mircea_popescu that you agreed with onchain scaling in 2013? But anyway looks like you guys are busy so I'll leave you to it.
mircea_popescu: - return error("BANNED peer issuing unknown inv type.");
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75572 @ 0.00056712 = 42.8584 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 01-02-2016 14:26:12; jurov: mod6 ben_vulpes asciilifeform : do I understand right sha512 is hardwired in V? is there a space for sane upgrade path?
PeterL: ascii_butugychag I think I was wrong, it is not inciatus to which I connected, looks like Dulap?
mircea_popescu: Tasoshi looky, im sure you have nice intentions et all, but intentions don't matter. put some actual sweat into it. answer the original question, answer it well rather than flailing around.
Tasoshi: Why do you not tell me and all what corrupted your mind to make you turn against the genius of satoshi?
assbot: The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... (
http://bit.ly/1Q70TOa )
Tasoshi: You've been deceived by all sorts of scaremongering about abstract concept such as centralised decentralised whatever
Tasoshi: if you do not think 51% will be honest, then sell your bitcoins.....
Tasoshi: if you do, then why should you restrict access to all?
Tasoshi: and turn this into a super centralised kyc aml settlement nonsense
Tasoshi: and all it took is 1 video?
Tasoshi: The propaganda video which is probably the only thing that convinced mr mircea_popescu
PeterL: mircea_popescu watched a video?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22000 @ 0.00056712 = 12.4766 BTC [+]
Tasoshi: it is amazing how professional that video is for 2013
Tasoshi: as you all remember, all videos about bitcoin were super amateur back then
assbot: BitBet - Bitcoin Standardized Protocol Approved this Summer :: 2.7 B (24%) on Yes, 8.72 B (76%) on No | closed 2 years 5 months ago ... (
http://bit.ly/1SxKBCL )
BingoBoingo: Tasoshi: My browser doesn't play yourtube videos
jurov: i.e. devteam just rushing to enhance and extend without putting things on stable footing
jurov: and you know what comes after embrace and extend
mircea_popescu: polarbeard mno, this is no good, it doesn;t solve the naked return problem. for instance (all from bitcoinrpc.cpp) : return error; at line 44 ; return "bitcoin server stopping"; line 162 sorta thing.
Tasoshi: what I find surprising is that the propaganda video has any persuasive power when it visually shows its settlement system as being very centralised - that is many people connecting to 1 hub/bank...
mircea_popescu: not to mention assorted garbage like throw runtime_error()
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: what's your objection to throw runtime_error ?
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag i didn't object to it in principle, but it's also not covered by the new logging model.
polarbeard: mircea_popescu: I didn't know it was expected to solve it, but ok, I see this patch is consuming too much time from everybody...
mircea_popescu: polarbeard i dunno that it was expected to either. prolly isn't, really. just, bitcoin code is too layered, random and messy.
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag lemme summarize this for you. bitcoin eminently keeps shitty logs. a new guy came in and undertood the monstrous task of trying to fix that.
mircea_popescu: this has on one side exposed a lot of the underlying grime, and on the other side is bugging your centralist mind because you don't want to read thousands of lines of patchwork.
polarbeard: to be honest, I see this thing going forward if I don't have to generate a new patch again
mircea_popescu: nevertheless : the grime's still there, and bitcoin would do a lot better with a better logging system
polarbeard: so if I can add another patch on top of these I will keep working on it but I'm tired of rediffing...
ascii_butugychag: shiva hooks on everything, and programmable log mechanism in ~that~.
mircea_popescu: understand : you can't prevent people from working nor should you try.
ascii_butugychag: but will pronounce - 'this is braindamaged and i will not sign.'
ascii_butugychag: ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu - can, obviously, do what they like.
mircea_popescu: well the v is well designed to be forgiving and helpful.
mircea_popescu: anyway, yes, i'm taking the time from my days of orgies and icecream to read this thing.
ascii_butugychag: briefly, unrelatedly, mircea_popescu 'the keccak function takes unlimited input' << what ?!
phf: can imagine future where ascii big trb senator is forced by opposition forces to sign, "i will not siiiign"
mircea_popescu: hehehe. thanks god we are better than that stupid shit.
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag it's my recollection you can apply it on an endless pile of data, neh ?
ascii_butugychag: also keccak has same problem as predecessor, silicon will be baked, we get mining cartels again.
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: i still don't grasp the 'technological reasons' from footnote v
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag is asic going to store the whole chain ?
mircea_popescu: if you have a drive that seeks and also updates, why not have a cpu ?
mircea_popescu: the only reason asics exist is because sha256 you can do by hand on paper.
ascii_butugychag: i also vaguely recall ^this aspect being appealing to mircea_popescu ?
mircea_popescu: yes there's some economy of scale to be had with well designed flash banks, made each the size of a block etc.
ascii_butugychag: might bring exotical like holo storage out of the circus and into actual production
mircea_popescu: obviously there's no insurance against future technology.
ascii_butugychag: and how is block size any more fixed in the proposed scheme than in the old ?
mircea_popescu: but on the basis of what we currently known, a strict coupling there (4 or less bits of shift) is untractable
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag different incentives. as it is now, changing the size doesn't automatically brick all miners.
mircea_popescu: this is an oversight. they want a change, fine, but they must fully commit to it.
mircea_popescu: 1tb of ram will be overwhelmed by 20mb blocks in a few years.
mircea_popescu: the ~only way to do this in silicone is to make blocksized banks and line them up.
mircea_popescu: this will be done eventually, as the article says. but not without its costs.
punkman: mutating the merkle root just needs some sha256 hashing though
punkman: you just put the nonce in coinbase, isn't it equivalent to mutating the actual nonce?
mircea_popescu: punkman yes, up until people start rejecting nonstandard blocks.
punkman: you can encode that nonce in standard coinbase outputs
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag can you be explicit for crying out loud.
ascii_butugychag: right now we have gangrene in one leg. what is an improvement about having ~two~ ?
punkman: mircea_popescu: orders of magnitude cheaper than recalculating nonce+digest
ascii_butugychag: requiring elaborate hardware to mine adds to, rather than takes away from, centralization.
jurov: trinque: deedbot.org says "Last updated 2016-01-27"
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag this is a general principle that works generally.
mircea_popescu: this is like saying russia makes all mop buckets and so they have a stranglehold.
mircea_popescu: and ukrainian whores have a stranglehold on german streetwalking.
mircea_popescu: because it's the easiest thing to do and they're entry level.
ascii_butugychag: it is something that ONE country has any kind of reasonable tooling to make.
trinque: jurov: btcd is choking on the transaction representing felipelalli's deed; I've been looking at it
mircea_popescu: anyway. this adds the "need chinese foundries" to "need sk sdd" for maximal ,ulz.
trinque: perhaps it is a matter of the key generated being invalid, though I would've expected the bits I'm using for pubkey/address generation to barf at that, and didn't
trinque: meanwhile the trb node is now at 383k, thanks to new SSD
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: why not, while you're at it, premine 100% of the coins and just hand them to seoul.
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag anyway, the only thign this does is that if implemented, you could alter dulap code slightly and produce usable digest blocks for sale to pay for the node.
mircea_popescu: miners need to know that nonces x to x' are ok to mine with digest Z
mircea_popescu: and you have a cpu and a hdd, and can just produce this information.
ascii_butugychag: i think i have a stronger chance of flying to mircea_popescu's house on a glider powered by my own farts, than for this to so much as budge the schelling point from bitcoin by so much as a nanometre.
mircea_popescu: and it'll be way the fuck cheaper for them to buy it from you than for them to bake a cpu and hdd into the 80s era vlsi.
ascii_butugychag: i get that miners without nodes are retarded, but that is easily fixed just by requiring whole-block hash in the nonce rather than the idiot header system
mircea_popescu: (they way this is likely going to be asic'd is by keeping rainbow tables, and just adding octets. nevertheless - this STILL requires the whole chain be preserved. even if in a diff format)
ascii_butugychag: what i don't get is what desirable thing the workfunction change accomplishes
mircea_popescu: i mean. how is this more or different of a workfunction change.
mircea_popescu: nah, it's just making sure people actually have the chain. all of it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38023 @ 0.00056506 = 21.4853 BTC [-] {2}
punkman: would you have to recalculate the digest to verify any incoming blocks as a node?
mircea_popescu: punkman probably. unless you keep a table of historical chain by nonces.
mircea_popescu: with an unshifted nonce, this is ~impossible, of course, you're not keeping maxint times 200kb+ entries.
BingoBoingo: punkman: Why haven't you submitted a writeup on the Liberty Reserve thing yet?
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag anyway, if the nice folks of whatever wish to change bitcoin more in the sense of, full block hash not headers, i wouldn't automatically reject it. i described a point which must be included, but i also said its details are open to discussion.
punkman: BingoBoingo: dunno, wasn't that interesting in retrospect
ascii_butugychag: i'm not convinced that it is possible for mircea_popescu and the secret cabal of the smallint other mircea_popescus to actually get off the bitcoin bus without perma-crashing the universe
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77400 @ 0.00056428 = 43.6753 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: the observation that "you can't have any change until you clean up your room" shouldn't really be all that controversial.
punkman: mircea_popescu: what is a shifted nonce?
mircea_popescu: adolescentine fits re "but bucket of water could cause flood and rubbing things together starts fires so i shouldn't have to sweep" notwithstanding.
ascii_butugychag: this, i also have trouble seeing how it could be controversial.
assbot: The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... (
http://bit.ly/1m8jMbl )
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag i don't. nobody has learned anything else since 30 years ago.
adlai: punkman: right-shifting the nonce bits by N to make the hashed data update every 2^N blocks
ascii_butugychag: cpp is braindamaged and is the reason why winblows is what it is.
adlai: ascii_butugychag: what did you mean by "requiring whole-block hash in the nonce"?
ascii_butugychag: at the root of both, is the fact that anything produced by 'coderz' is braindamaged.
mircea_popescu: wouldja simmer down and speak explicitly ? these are the logs!
adlai: i didn't ask what the implications are, or why, i'm asking what exactly your proposal is, implementation-wise
adlai has not build his own ASICs
mircea_popescu: "do you know that currently, all a miner needs is to know the header of the previous block to mine" "yes"
mircea_popescu: the wunderbar advantages of being explicit! others have something to talk to!
adlai: i just want to understand what ascii_butugychag suggested there, instead of each block header including the previous header's hash. i probably got thrown off by the word "nonce" leaking in there
mircea_popescu: see, i suspect ascii_butugychag this is the major contradiction here. your idea of safety is to make it non-outsourceable, but i suspect it'd be both better and safer to make it FAIRLY outsourceable.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85750 @ 0.00056712 = 48.6305 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: currently the problem appears to be "it being outsourceable", but really, the problem is that only blind outsourcing can be done.
mircea_popescu: why. because that's how the whole world was built. and how it works when it works.
ascii_butugychag: pools full of sheeple who can be steered, turned on a dime, are a Bad Thing
punkman: ascii_butugychag: did you figure out how to "non-outsourceable"?
☟︎ BingoBoingo: <punkman> BingoBoingo: dunno, wasn't that interesting in retrospect << As a general rule cases become far less interesting when pleas happen
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag yes but the solution is not to kill all the sheep.
ascii_butugychag: the more i think about it, the more it seems to me that mining is a catastrophic bug per se
ascii_butugychag: introduces exactly the wrong incentives, and empowers the folks you least want in the driver's seat
ascii_butugychag: it remains to be shown that, like carnot cycle, mining cannot be escaped from.
mircea_popescu: anyway. heaven is built atop hell also. been doing fine.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20000 @ 0.00056138 = 11.2276 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19161 @ 0.00056123 = 10.7537 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49679 @ 0.00056064 = 27.852 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74000 @ 0.00056712 = 41.9669 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 01-02-2016 16:37:42; punkman: ascii_butugychag: did you figure out how to "non-outsourceable"?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35959 @ 0.00056712 = 20.3931 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84191 @ 0.00056761 = 47.7877 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52050 @ 0.00056258 = 29.2823 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 81826 @ 0.00056718 = 46.4101 BTC [+] {2}
ascii_butugychag: the measures against toy choppers is 100% 'majesty of the might of the state' crapolade theatre
mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ <-- afaik the only ways are 1) require coinbase receiver's signature in block header << this is rank nonsense. i'm not signing to receive bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: yes usg loves to present "fixes" of this nature. the odds of them making it in are about the same as the odds of obama being smart.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85164 @ 0.00056197 = 47.8596 BTC [-] {4}
mircea_popescu: +/** Add entropy to the pool directly. Use this for seeding or on-demand entropy. */
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag you've lived a sheltered lyf alfie :D
jurov: eulora je trochu ako randomizovany eve online :D
ascii_butugychag: in other nyooz, turns out that golden-age opterons (just the chip) can be had for their weight in mere gold on 'ebay'
mircea_popescu: "all 1 comments - sorted by: best there doesn't seem to be anything here" << lol reddit.
kakobrekla: which are the golde age ones according to alf?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67940 @ 0.00056628 = 38.4731 BTC [+]
mod6: !up ascii_butugychag
mod6: hey ascii_butugychag, so i figured out what my dumbass did yesterday. somehow, when looking at your fix patch - I missed the portion where you changed main.cpp altogether.
mod6: probably was just going to fast.
mod6: anyway, i created a new patch for PVS and did a regrind on malleus (since this one depends on main.cpp)
mod6: compiled just fine, just kicked it off for a quick test...
mod6: # ps aux | grep bitcoind && LC_ALL=C ./bitcoind -datadir=/mnt/btc-dev/.bitcoin getinfo | grep version
mod6: root 31936 32.1 37.8 1741912 1453164 pts/7 SLl 19:01 0:55 ./bitcoind -datadir=/mnt/btc-dev/.bitcoin -myip=127.0.0.1 -addnode=188.68.240.159 -setverstring=trb -setvernum=99998 -lows
mod6: root 31948 0.0 0.0 8924 708 pts/7 S+ 19:04 0:00 grep --colour=auto bitcoind
mod6: so that looks like its doing the right thing, and the log was updated as well.
phf: mircea_popescu: ^
☟︎ phf: which kind of broke the previous ip only links, i might fix that at some point
phf: there's a bug of some sort, pretty sure your polarbeard_better_log_messages shouldn't press from asciilifeform_maxint_locks_corrected, i'll look into it tonight
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66600 @ 0.00056126 = 37.3799 BTC [-] {2}
polarbeard: I think it's correct though, 565faf3ef371f5e2178ae30c45b08b93415eeb92263486e68f2ac2e8f4c7900056e628804bf5c0707a90be946e0aeaebfcd0a391aab40de2e5d56e6bcbdccb1e bitcoin/src/db.cpp
mod6: !up ascii_butugychag
mod6: i must be stale ascii_butugychag
mod6: someone up ascii_butugychag
phf: polarbeard: it's not correct, since the graph is supposed to only show transitions, rather then descendants/antecedents. in this case polarbeard_better_log_messages touches util.h and util.cpp that are modified in polarbeard_remove_shrink_debug_file
ascii_butugychag: i still think regrinds are a thing to be avoided whenever possible, but whatever
phf: in other words there might be an antecedent, but there's also other hunks in that file that should've prevented the linkage
ascii_butugychag: phf: your viewer is mighty spiffy, it is exactly what i wanted to make in september (and never had time)
☟︎ ascii_butugychag: if it were given a place to pump in patches, we could finally give turdatron a proper burial
mod6: ascii_butugychag: one fix every now and then isn't horrible or anything, id just hate to see the situation (like at usg-like job) where people create a turd, create a PR, and then have to keep chainging the PR until "ready"
mod6: and a similar situation in V would be like 69 patches to patch the original patch.
ascii_butugychag: mod6: i found myself blowing the very tiny time budget i had, on regrinding
ascii_butugychag: and now, e.g., shiva is hosed, imho needlessly, and will have to be reground
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82200 @ 0.00056125 = 46.1348 BTC [-] {2}
polarbeard: phf: I don't follow, db.cpp is what generates that relationship
ascii_butugychag: it is my considered judgement that maintaining the illusion of 'we got it right the first time' is a pointless thing.
phf: ascii_butugychag: thanks!
phf: polarbeard: you can't press polarbeard_better_log_messages directly on top of asciilifeform_maxint_locks_corrected period. so the ~transition~ makes no sense
phf: there needs to be some patches in between
polarbeard: you can press the corresponding hunks, the graph is showing that
ascii_butugychag: ;;later tell mircea_popescu in what sense is adoptinc keccak a rejection of usg standards? it was actually adopted as sha3...
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87439 @ 0.00056085 = 49.0402 BTC [-] {2}
ascii_butugychag: ServerMode/#bitcoin-assets [+v ben_vulpes] by adams.freenode.net << wat?!
trinque: jurov: I got it to squirt your txn earlier, after finding where my db lost track of the blockchain. site will update when btcd catches up, in roughly 90blks
trinque: still seeing something that knocks btcd into a stuck state
trinque: trb node is at 384k; I will be switching to that with anti-heathen command patch very soon
trinque: the same node was at 350k before I had the SSD installed, so we're gaining ground quickly.
ascii_butugychag: ;;later tell mircea_popescu your scheme (could call it... nodecoin?) finally clicked in my head. at last, an end to the cn pond scum !!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21306 @ 0.00056683 = 12.0769 BTC [+] {3}
thestringpuller: trinque: SSD speeds up block checking? I found I/O is very heavy with -verifyall
trinque: the SSD has *massively* sped up the process, which doesn't surprise me
trinque: and yeah, running with -verifyall
thestringpuller: yea. System is at like 70% disk load when verifying blocks on sync.
thestringpuller: ascii_butugychag: Not all of us are rich like you and can afford toys :P
thestringpuller: When I get promoted to plutonimum mine from coal mine, maybe I'll buy SSDs.
trinque: pff I'm paying 25/mo for a colo'd server with SSD
ascii_butugychag: about to upgrade cpus for the 1st time, with.... circa-'09 ones
thestringpuller: My most powerful box runs i5 a 1.5 TB array. Best thing in the box is a 960 GTX
thestringpuller: Stuck an extra stick of RAM in it based on notion from friend during last upgrade. more of "here is extra stick I have lying around" "oh cool"
thestringpuller: So no, I don't buy storage often. I usually try to buy enough for 5 years at a time.
hdbuck: just was quite amused by the latest Kaspersky Interpol Forbes combo virus
ascii_butugychag: if your box pipes it to bash and executes, that is a problem with you, not 'blockchain'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 112328 @ 0.00056738 = 63.7327 BTC [+] {4}
ascii_butugychag: and if kaspersky really did sign off on this cheap p.t.barnumism, it really must be spent, for good.
thestringpuller: ascii_butugychag: Got into argument with netsec team leader at work.
thestringpuller: told him of cardano, and was like "well how are you going to trust cardano", to which I replied with the parable of soldier maintaining own AK-47
ascii_butugychag: next time try & have the argument with a literate man, who can grasp how, e.g., flashlight works
ascii_butugychag: having it with somebody who understands nothing of how his civilization is put together, to whom flashlight, pc, boeing, are equally magical - is a snore.
☟︎ thestringpuller: yes, but these people get put in charge of sekuriteee and it makes me wonder "how?"
thestringpuller: "Do you not understand how a web of trust functions, or why?"
thestringpuller: Isn't this fundamental to achieving some sort of ~actual~ security?
ascii_butugychag: the trick here is that the proposition that you could actually understand a device that you own, is a hard sell to a great many folks
thestringpuller: those folks usually would accidentally drink rat poison if it was "accidentally" labeled wine
ascii_butugychag: and folks who cannot, or will not, attempt said understanding, will have to find themselves a priest, yes.
thestringpuller: trust the priest until he diddles your son during sunday school?
ascii_butugychag: let's put it this way, they have priests already, and the latter are spinning the flock on their cocks like propellers.
thestringpuller: reminds of allegory of the cave. if all you know is being priest cock, why would you think something else exist.
thestringpuller: the rule of thumb "fits in head" helps with the notion of owning device which when understood could "fit in head".
thestringpuller: problem arises when people can barely fit 3 bits in head before wandering off.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41889 @ 0.00056892 = 23.8315 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 129400 @ 0.00056893 = 73.6195 BTC [+]
adlai: !v assbot:adlai.rate.psztorc.1:8fcb37e60bcff978a15dfbf1e566dc2508a68b74e12acec77bf899a37089e7cc
ascii_butugychag: BingoBoingo: ' pledging to sink any hard fork proposal without making these changes' --> ... 'that does not include these changes' ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56600 @ 0.00056893 = 32.2014 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 131081 @ 0.00056878 = 74.5563 BTC [-]
schmidty: good to be here. still considering myself in purgatory given my lack of homework over the logs. i hope to some day join the ranks, still trying to frame it all up in my mind.
schmidty: has anyone ever aggregated the viewpoints here into a sort of dogma or similar for the new followers?
PeterL: do we still have a ddosser on newbs/uncloaked?
jurov upgrading shit to win10, near the end it shows big banner "All your files are exactly where you left them".
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag note that it's not my scheme not a coin nor anything. it's just a minimum bar.
jurov: compiling eulora client?
PeterL: schmidty there is the wiki, wiki.bitcoin-assets.com
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: i can see it. sorta 'shit test', anyone who proposes any fork which refuses it, has to answer for himself
mircea_popescu: schmidty the idea is that you're supposed to press your own dogma so to speak.
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag exactly. a very minimal sort of thing.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86100 @ 0.00056858 = 48.9547 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64400 @ 0.00056893 = 36.6391 BTC [+]
assbot: The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... (
http://bit.ly/1WYbhgA )
PeterL: well, "everyone" being the people commenting on your blog
ascii_butugychag: i must agree with the rando commenter, i have nfi why anybody would 'buy from nodes'
PeterL: people who want to do lightweight / trimmed blockchain would not like the proposal
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14000 @ 0.00056893 = 7.965 BTC [+]
PeterL: seems like it would be easier to run your own node for your minerfarm than to buy from other people?
ascii_butugychag: aha, seems like a 'let's rent out space inside my nose' situation
PeterL: I guess instead of having one pool doing block hashing, you would have two pools connected, one doing the block hashing and one doing the bitmap hashing?
mircea_popescu: PeterL there's a selection of different people there but ok.
mircea_popescu: or just graph the demand curve for digests in units of time delta block finds in your head and see.
PeterL: so then people who have full nodes are the front half of the mining pool, and the back half remains about what it is now
mircea_popescu: PeterL nobody who wants a bitcoin-without-the-bitcoin thing would like that proposal. that's fundamentally why it's there, to readily distinguish people seeking to help from people seeking to help us hang ourselves.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the shifting decides that. if you make the shifting very low, mining as an activity seen today disappears altogether - the digest is much more expensive than the hashing.
PeterL: is mining on server farms better than mining on asics?
ascii_butugychag: actually i must disagree with one point - general-purpose, e.g., x86, cpu, is full of so much crud that asicization is economical and quite inevitable
mircea_popescu: well... it is "closer to the origianl vision" at any rate.
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag do you see the side benefit to this happening ?
mircea_popescu: "everything seems ripe for the picking to the man with a good pickaxe"
ascii_butugychag: just pointing out that 80-90% of an x86 die is there because winblowz, really
mircea_popescu: if that were to happen because we made it happen i'd be so happy.
mircea_popescu: what, finally can buy a sane cpu because bitcoin miners ?
mircea_popescu: you don't see how it's a step or how it's the right direction ?
ascii_butugychag: other than the basic fact of it being a caltrop against folks who want to 'lose' the blockchain, i mean
mircea_popescu: it will also be proof that in point of fact 80% of cpu could go away.
ascii_butugychag: wouldn't prove anything re: 'it could go away' in re: ~workstation~
mircea_popescu: on that expertise, and more importantly on those suddenly opened eyes, more good stuff can be built.
ascii_butugychag: interestingly, i fully expected, from 2010 on, folks to gnaw on the leather straps of sha256
mircea_popescu: i bought 2 kgs of costa rican cofee. place now smells like the end of the fucking world.
mircea_popescu: i've never had coffee this good, and i lived in fucking costa rica!
felipelalli: <mircea_popescu> how is a bitfield in the gpg key help you in case you die ? or lose control of the key ? neither of these are time-able events. << well, thank you.
deedbot-: imported: 9E08524833CB3038FDE385C54C0AFCCFED5CDE14
ascii_butugychag: i know of no reason to suspect that anybody on the planet is mining with any method other than brute force.
mircea_popescu: it's a little place with no particular name down by the end of santa fe
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes if you ever end up in here again ima buy you a pound of this stuff :D
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: and imma drink it! if i ever come back.
ben_vulpes: at this rate the only time i'm going to come back is with a 5 yo and a 2 yo to escape election season
mircea_popescu: actually now that macri murdered their black market, maybe the borders open and i can mail you some or some shit.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: shall we try? anything you want from the states?
danielpbarron: (it doesn't matter who actually submits the deed, as long as it's blessed with WoT sig)
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes notrly, had lovage seeds courierred and that was the last thing.
felipelalli: danielpbarron, Daniel is a very common name in Brazil. Are you Brazilian?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 91550 @ 0.00056925 = 52.1148 BTC [+] {4}
danielpbarron: lol, it's from the Bible.. it's common everywhere. and no I'm born and raised in Connecticut
felipelalli: But Felipe, for example, in some places are Philip, Filipe, Filippo etc.
assbot: Logged on 18-10-2015 16:37:35; asciilifeform: let's have a programmer, of some skill, no social net, no savings, pays 100K rent to make 120K in some godforsaken saltmine, in usa
pete_dushenski: your proposal to increase block size pretty much seals this theory ;)
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Dunno that much yet, even though he was arrested last week word is just emerging this week.
BingoBoingo: Probably for reasons related to "trained experts" in german rapes
BingoBoingo: But spz. to prison on Friday, arrested Thursday so who knows what's actually happpening
BingoBoingo: If you want Pravda's narrative you can check "Wired"
mircea_popescu: its ok, im just going to read more of this guy's -printf +printf.
BingoBoingo: Anyways much more news today than late last month. 4 newses and a report in the first 22 hours of February.
assbot: Logged on 01-02-2016 19:06:38; phf: mircea_popescu: ^
assbot: Logged on 01-02-2016 19:14:39; ascii_butugychag: phf: your viewer is mighty spiffy, it is exactly what i wanted to make in september (and never had time)
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes can you believe the deploy times of tmsr incidentally ?
mircea_popescu: i have never witnessed anything like this before. if i were not-here i'd be pretty fucking scared.
ben_vulpes: well polarbeard likes to pretend as though i don't exist until he finally does what i ask, and even then refuses to ping me on the topic.
ascii_butugychag: 'During the execution that warrant, and based on facts that remain under seal before this Court, the government recovered the following items: two “pelican style” bags which contained: identity documents; a passport card in Bridges’ name; a notarized copy of Bridges’ passport; corporate records for at least 3 different offshore entities ranging from Nevis to Belize to Mauritius, i
ascii_butugychag: ncluding one that Bridges created on October 28, 2015 after he had pleaded guilty in this case; a Samsung cell phone; and a thumb drive. Also located in those bags were documents relating to his wife’s, Ariana Esposito’s, attempts to obtain citizenship in another country. Government agents also found a MacBook with the serial number scratched off, an ipad tucked between a bedroom mattr
ben_vulpes: but yeah phf's sprouting some lovely tooling
ascii_butugychag: ess, and bulletproof vests, at least one of which had Secret Service markings and thus is believed to have been stolen from the government. '
jurov: phf what's i written in?
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag sounds more and more like it's a petraeus job.
mircea_popescu: might also be the first time lisp was used for an actual purpose in its entire history
ben_vulpes throws pens, pencils, erasers at mircea_popescu's slithering ass
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag he has the right method tho, you know ? what in beginner writer classes is called show, don't tell.
mircea_popescu: in other news : mp decides new heels and dress would go very well with a shiny-red lacquered leather ball gag. proceeds to inquire with a dozen or so sex shops in the farming town. they ALL have the same exact item.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: leaving aside they're trying to pass off a 70 cent chinese bit of crap for 20 bux in a poor country que no es un pais pobre : why the fuck bother to have a dozen shops then ?!
BingoBoingo wonders with this nuggest alf will show of lisp once he can find the right bolts to keep Shiva attached
BingoBoingo spz's that Shiva is probably the right place to get a less retarded wallet to talk to Bitcoin node.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: lemme guess, they're all on the same street too?
ascii_butugychag: (this is the biggest point of divergence with r5rs standard, it ~demands~ it)
mircea_popescu: once you do that ima want shoup implemented just to have it nearby
mircea_popescu: ima do some shoup encoding on avenida cramer just for the fucks of it.
BingoBoingo: I suspect this will magically emerge as a surpise on some pseudorandom weekend
ascii_butugychag: incidentally all of this exists in sad pieces in the cellars of my sad tower
mircea_popescu: alf built himself a house shaped like a boat and is now waiting!
assbot: Logged on 01-02-2016 19:29:18; ascii_butugychag: ;;later tell mircea_popescu in what sense is adoptinc keccak a rejection of usg standards? it was actually adopted as sha3...
ascii_butugychag: btw between that thread and now i went and read the keccak spec
mircea_popescu: i don't need to explain what i meant by not finite then ?
ascii_butugychag: other hashes also accept infinite bits but they eat where they shit.
mircea_popescu: and mind that while in no means do i propose this is "Asic resistant", from a designer perspective you must appreciate i'm giving you a fun job to do.
ascii_butugychag: quite! nobody will be plagiarizing old verilog from fpga docs to bake this one.
ben_vulpes: whoa oakland terminal is filing for ch 11
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82529 @ 0.00056816 = 46.8897 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: honestly the way i expect practical implementations to work (at least "originally") is, best effort sort of thing.
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: actually it will be a massively-parallel sort of affair
ascii_butugychag: incidentally, does this actually incentivize storing the blocks? or only the rainbow table!
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: WHy is this surprizing. Oakland sucks and Oakland terminal has been struggling.
mircea_popescu: but you get what the tree grew, not what you want to eat!
mircea_popescu: actually... take the rainbows, write them ACROSS the bitfield, got the blocks lol.
mircea_popescu: this is the amusing chinese-ness of this all. basically we're reading the other direction.
mircea_popescu: more than one person in china lolled when they saw it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 172634 @ 0.00056755 = 97.9784 BTC [-] {4}
mircea_popescu: incidentally ascii_butugychag i had dc price 1tb ram. the guy... lifted an eyebrow.
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: actually i would be only slightly surprised if prb could be persuaded to jmp into a block.
trinque: felipelalli: yes, he got shot in the head again and is catching back up, is at 396128
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag seeing how there's memory leaks... not a bad bet.
trinque: felipelalli: I thought the cause was something to do with your deed earlier, deleted it, now jurov's has gone through, and yours is next
felipelalli: trinque, lol! I think I have killed deedbot- many times unintentionally.
trinque: felipelalli: that is a good thing; this present round of woes shall be rememdied in a few days, I think. trb node shall have reached the top. It's at about 385k right now
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 102250 @ 0.00056955 = 58.2365 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Paul Sztorc on Twitter: "It seems that [Mircea Popescu] has internalized Bitcoin's full node externality. Initial reaction: "Wow."" : Bitcoin ... (
http://bit.ly/1Kmlp0t )
pete_dushenski: rather than just "oh some small block zealots are afraid of progress" such and such
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86300 @ 0.00056969 = 49.1642 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: Logged on 01-02-2016 19:56:14; ascii_butugychag: imho spinning rust is a losing proposition for any node.
ascii_butugychag: pete_dushenski: the hybrid thing seems like the worst of both worlds
jurov: pete_dushenski: gigabytes of RAM alleviate the problem, but only if it's not too far behind
jurov: so I imageine it's the same with hybrids
mircea_popescu: hybrids are one of those "maybe when it grows up" techs.
pete_dushenski: aha. good to know as i'm on the hunt for a new node hard drive and, given this, might as well spring for ssd.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65951 @ 0.00056022 = 36.9471 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: Zotamedu comments on Bitcoin core will soon replace the industry standard random number generator with a homebrew script. Sorry for your loss (of entropy) ... (
http://bit.ly/1Q8QotN )
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Avoid SSD's which seem inexpensve for their capacity
BingoBoingo: SSD market pretty much consists on Samsung, Intel, and other firms that just use surplus parts from samsung
☟︎ jurov: "Comming soon, custom memory allocator!" :B
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60312 @ 0.00056976 = 34.3634 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: after syncing i have moved older half of blockXXX.dat on spinning rust and it did not access them very often
ascii_butugychag: and if pete_dushenski is really asking why there are no 3.5" ones, it is for same reason as why not 5.25
ascii_butugychag: jurov: that was because ~nobody is actually setting up new nodes
jurov: but feeding new nodes is not random-access affair. spending old coin, now that's something else
jurov: but if it was not spent often so far, i hardly expect that to change
ascii_butugychag: why the fuck provision for rewriting bits that will ~never~ be rewritten.
ascii_butugychag: mask rom is approximately indestructible, costs precious little to make, uses minimal current, etc
jurov: so? burn the old half to bd-r. checkbox marked.
ascii_butugychag: (when it becomes known that asking for old blocks makes you spin a motor)
jurov: ha! let the enemy start moving his precious pre-2011 coinz
jurov: that will be stopped by index which stays on ssd
jurov: ok. anyway, should be not hard to have a bit in the index saying tx has all otutputs spent with 1000... confirmations
jurov: (but yes that's HARD, i believe electrum does this and it makes full sync almost impractical even on ssd)
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag> why the fuck provision for rewriting bits that will ~never~ be rewritten. <<< ironically, cheaper to save on hdd than on the mask rom. yet.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: especially seeing that glass storage thing i read about.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51650 @ 0.00056012 = 28.9302 BTC [-] {3}
BingoBoingo: <pete_dushenski> ok. now any idea why ssd's are all 2.5" ? << You know these things work in 3.5" and even 5.25" bays... Even work with same cables.
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: mhm. can use mounting bracket too if you don't feel like taping it on. i guess the 2.5" size meets the 90% of buyers using it for laptops and the 10% of buyers using it for desktops aren't excluded either.
☟︎ BingoBoingo: Many of them will include the bracket in the retail box
danielpbarron: and this line of questioning interests me; i've been meaning to get one of those things too
danielpbarron: or more than one; does it make sense to make a raid? and for that matter what's the right thing to buy for that?
danielpbarron: i've got this nice beefy workstation but i'm still using my 10 year old hard drives
BingoBoingo: Kinda makes sense to do raid 1 for redundancy and faster reads
mircea_popescu: depends what you wanna do. raid 1 works well for security ; raid 0 for speed
danielpbarron: i mean hardware controller; i think i recall reading asciilifeform saying hardware is only way to raid
gernika: I have raid 1 (hardware) going with 2 ssds
assbot: Logged on 26-01-2016 19:24:59; ascii_butugychag: (as far as i'm concerned, there is ONE manufacturer of raid cards)
BingoBoingo: Anyways my take on the SSD market is the stuff Samsung is willing to brand as theirs is the safest in a longevity way. Who the fuck knows which is least likely to have evil baked in.
pete_dushenski: curious if asciilifeform is buying sandisk, samsung, intel(!), amd, or other ssd atm.
☟︎ pete_dushenski: so far it looks like the sandisk 'extreme pro' is the best bang for the buck in the 480-500gb segment. though all are free to point me to something better!
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Sandisk, AMD, etc is all Samsung parts
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 240616 @ 0.00055963 = 134.6559 BTC [-] {5}
BingoBoingo: Intel for a while did their own thing, but I am unsure if they still do.
kakobrekla sent numerous 'go fuck yourself' letters to sandisk for their policies with usb drives and will never buy their shit again
☟︎ gernika: BingoBoingo: how about Micron?
BingoBoingo: gernika: I don't know about them and SSD's.
jurov: in related news, the "kingdian" shit survived several rewrites already
jurov: i wonder if many-MLC SSD is fullfilling alf's dreams of ROM :D
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36100 @ 0.00055836 = 20.1568 BTC [-] {2}
fluffypony: sorry mircea_popescu, your secret is out
fluffypony: [01:29:21] <JackH>he seems quite certain of himself and even writes that he refuses to accept it wont work
fluffypony: [01:29:45] <JackH>in his universe, his words are absolute - its quite funny to read
fluffypony: [01:51:12] <psztorc>JackH: He does that on purpose, to manipulate the type of people who choose to read his blog.
fluffypony: [01:51:34] <psztorc>The secret is that he isn't arrogant at all -- only pretending.
fluffypony: no you're only pretending, now we know the truth
mircea_popescu: if i read one more fucking printf statement i'm going to start murdering people again. bbl.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu begins to feel the burn!