log☇︎
71700+ entries in 0.451s
ben_vulpes: cracks in the edifice of ideological hegemony are starting to show, though: "You have the choice between standing for a cause or standing against whoever disagrees with you. One choice may result in a boycott. The other can build a bridge."
asciilifeform: classic prbism -- where is the proof that this does not create a phantom n+1st 'signer' ?
asciilifeform: usa is a mighty twin-engined lulzengine of a+b.
mircea_popescu: it's inexcusable, but either a or b may explain.
mircea_popescu: on the face. there may be some merit to it in that : a) the chinese are mentally dull. i mean this specifically in the sense of chinese born baby ~= piece of furniture, funcially incapable of either finding a novel idea, evaluating it, or figuring out off own steam that should do this ; b) the euros are cuckolds. this means they're less likely to consider idea if the womenz boo hoo than if the womenz don't boo hoo ; c) the wo
asciilifeform: why would a coin implementer give half a fuck re patents
asciilifeform: ( iirc it is simply a variant of ecdsa. )
mircea_popescu: by you know, the rich mother of the wife-slut. other kid (mary) grew up without shoes in the house of a peasant, who was paid 20 bux a month for it.
mircea_popescu: olga got caught, and delivered a daughter in summer 1925, which she didn't really feel like raising. ezra told dorothy later that year ; she left for egypt *by herself* and came back next march. pregnant.
mircea_popescu: in random lulz re the luminaries of this so called english literature and their chinxcavator belles : ezra pound had some 23yo named dorothy dropped on his head by her mother ; he also was fucking olga the violinist, who some friends dropped on his head when he was complaining he's been in paris for months and doesn't even have a mistress.
mircea_popescu: why the fuck would a male as much as spit for sweden
mircea_popescu: incidentally re http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-02#1621225 : a large part of the stagnancy in applied number theory for the past ... o hey, it's a century soon! has to do with everyone wanting to do the work without doing the work. ☝︎
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i dun even grasp how this is a vuln, it isn't as if 802.11 has rsa-authenticated endpoints to begin with
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> in other news im reading this hemingway interview and why the fuck was this guy such a dork and why does he only go out with ugly women. << Beer goggles
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: ty, mircea_popescu's line that '(I suspect USGtards would call it a "PRNG")' had me thinking in that line
mircea_popescu: in other news im reading this hemingway interview and why the fuck was this guy such a dork and why does he only go out with ugly women.
asciilifeform: sometimes 'prove that a solution ~exists~ is lifetime work.
mircea_popescu: the entire story of the "olympiad problems" (the fly between trains thing et al) is a fine indication of just how hard this sort of thing is, irl.
asciilifeform: logicgate-poverty, according to him, prevented asymmetric crypto from taking off in su, and so this ^ was the obsession. for a while.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the value of a winning lottery ticket = the value of the prize. lucky guys are worth money.
asciilifeform: so it is always a matter of avg case.
asciilifeform: and the d00d who does ~not~ know the key, has a nonzero P of guessing whole thing !
mircea_popescu: average case is a cop out.
asciilifeform: ideal hasher - into a prng (as pictured in, e.g., casks piece intro) ; an ideal cipher - into either of the two others.
asciilifeform: you can see that they are the same, because an 'ideal' prng can be trivially turned into a ciphrator; or a hasher ;
asciilifeform: the prng has a time parameter, but it is spurious, it is really just the same as a hash, with same requirements
asciilifeform: a 'secure prng' is fundamentally THE SAME animal as the 'secure hash' and the 'secure blockcipher'. ☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: ok i cannot resist answering ben_vulpes . because he will find answer in encyclopaedia, but it will not be an actual answer, but only a thought-extinguisher. ☟︎
ben_vulpes: can anyone recommend a paper or book with a rigorous definition of "computationally secure pseudo-random number generator"?
mircea_popescu: no. they wanted sarkozy, and figured taking him out would help. taking him out propelled a) hollande and b) le pen.
asciilifeform: 'all you need is a miniature black hole and some duct tape! otherwise, 100% solid physics!1111'
mircea_popescu: burn a watt, get a scrip coin.
mircea_popescu: a block is like a bus - eschews the need for every child and woman to maintain an engine.
asciilifeform: a 'cask' system would make the queue at least thinkable. but still very painful.
asciilifeform: now iirc we touched on the crackpottery where a ~tx~ carries PoW, and tx issuers somehow have to get in a single-file queue to avoid orphaning one another, and at a certain point 'lucky winner' (in practice, folx with disproportionate - a la today's miners - hash power) crosses a threshhold PoW and gets to finalize a block.
mircea_popescu: there's even a piece in the founding papers about it.
asciilifeform: (though users of suitcases of benjies do. there is a certain P of losing the payload to usg en route)
asciilifeform: but yes, this is one way to pay a % of something that cannot be cut.
mircea_popescu: terrible profile for a paymeny medium.
asciilifeform: your 'fee' is a small positive probability of losing your entire tx to the miner.
asciilifeform: btw i have a terrible solution, that technically works, but is barfalicious
asciilifeform: (barring some crackpotitude where you somehow buy 'casks' in bulk, a solid coin at a time )
mircea_popescu: no, because he at least had talent as a draughtsman.
asciilifeform: now this car has not only no engine, but no wheels, there is no incentive for ~anybody to even try to store a coherent history of the world.
asciilifeform: to spend a coin, its owner obtains (out of band) a new lamport pubkey from the new owner, and signs it.
asciilifeform: for sake of argument, let's draw the engineless car, and then possibly one day can conceive of the engine. say all C coins exist at genesis. (how distributed to owners -- outside the scope here.) each consist of a lamport pubkey;
mircea_popescu: which is why there's a fee.
asciilifeform: as phf's b00k illustrates, the cost of the chronometers remained a serious boojum well into 1900s
mircea_popescu: and timekeeping for free doesn't seem to be a tenable proposition.
asciilifeform: ( and a tx can be a once-per-Hinterval thing where you gotta roll in the previous interval's hash. and the day's tx form the day's H. )
asciilifeform: it is worth recalling the gedankenexperiment where it turns out that all you'd need to build 'martian bank' on earth, is if martians merely supplied an infallible 'martian clock', a service whereby they take a string S , at regular, say, daily, interval, and return its hash H ☟︎
mircea_popescu: this is a resource oft taken for granted
asciilifeform: ( and again i can picture a 'coin' lacking cemented event ordering . but it would not be a 'coin' in any reasonable sense of today. only a bag full of promises. )
mircea_popescu: quite. there's 0 incentive for people to stick to a chain otherwise.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the 'every user a currency issuer' is the only 'solution' i currently know to 'mining-is-a-bug'
mircea_popescu: how do you imagine tx fee working with "mining is a bug" ?
asciilifeform does not know a working, even in principle, algo for these.
asciilifeform: so it'd have to be one of those schemes where mining isn't even a thing; or at the very least has nothing to do with cementing tx
asciilifeform: Gert Storms — who says he won’t step down — is one of a few hundred scientists who have vowed that, from the start of this year, they will begin rejecting papers if authors won’t publicly share the underlying data, or explain why they can’t.'
asciilifeform: in other noose, https://archive.is/D3jVT << 'An editor on the board of a journal published by the prestigious American Psychological Association (APA) has been asked to resign in a controversy over data sharing in peer review.
ben_vulpes: those interests are pretty much providing a home to the royal sons of whereverthefuckistan, and effete boys with which they frolic
ben_vulpes: tell a nigga bout it
ben_vulpes: oregon is a sovereign, dontchaknow! has...interests!
ben_vulpes: in other truly top notch lols, "Moreover, the executive order forces Oregon to violate its own laws against discrimination, frustrating Oregon's sovereign interest in providing a welcoming home to people from all over the world"
a111: Logged on 2017-03-02 00:38 mircea_popescu: and an apple costs a fortune.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: incidentally i suspect that a regenesised fork would begin to gather steam long before http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-02#1621006 . ☝︎
mircea_popescu: not a bad piece if i do say so myself. but yes, perhaps that's what it is.
mircea_popescu: mindblowingly, still a thing in 2017.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, a non-amounts coin is by definition unfungible.
asciilifeform: a nonfungible coin is not very interesting.
mircea_popescu: and an apple costs a fortune. ☟︎
a111: Logged on 2017-02-27 16:56 mircea_popescu: but the correct trb-i might just as well end up this situation where block reward is 1mn bitcoin, and it dies within 1mn blocks. so all mining does is produce ~ a lease ~ on a chunk of bitcoin. and the value of old bitcoin is monotonically decreasing over their lifetime.
asciilifeform: it is a notion fundamentally incompatible with sanity.
asciilifeform: you still have a block-shaped hole occupying every slot.
asciilifeform: blocks are, recall, constant size, if you want O(1) block fetching (and as a verifying node, you certainly do) you win 0 by compressing.
asciilifeform: you replace a block you know to have been fully lubyized with a 'if you want this, go and find'. BUT what, now you have an empty string there ..
mircea_popescu: just... a sort of zipping
asciilifeform: and yes you can compute the odds of a particular block B ending up wholly lubyized by a time T. however if you rely on the luby strings for your mining, you will be fucked timewise.
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: it is possible to make a hole through a man's torso , in such a way that he does not die. but not desirable.
danielpbarron: is it possible to do a lossless pruning on this lubby thing? say some chunk of data kept in an early blk.dat can be removed and the whole thing still verifies because the missing piece can be re-produced from data in more recent blk.dat ?
mircea_popescu: however forcing one to keep A PORTION of blockchain is not altogether a bad outcome ; it is better than the current "forces to keep nothing -- and they provably, as historical fact, DID NOT!" and through lubby ensures blockchain is never lost.
asciilifeform: but, upstack, conundrum is, if some of the oldtx depend on prevblock in a way that is known immediately when said block was mined -- it gives a head start to plagiarists ( per earlier observation -- folx who take a freshly-mined block and try to make ~replacement~ for it with higher PoW.) but if they are ~not~ immediately known, and depend in any way on waltzeable Z, then 'haha i'll waltz until it falls in my 10%'.
asciilifeform had a prof who permitted students to bring 'all of the crib sheets and books you can carry on your miserable back, it won't help'
asciilifeform: the one thing that definitely cannot be permitted to be manipulable by a waltzer is the arity. (there'd be overwhelming incentive to waltz for minimal arity)
asciilifeform: sorta how student might get to select a few exam questions from a pool, but there are others that are mandatory.
asciilifeform: the plagiarist can make a block with higher PoW than the victim, ~every time, since he isn't handicapped by having to compute L(Z)
asciilifeform: (the fact that the original victim could, normally, relay his original faster than a typical plagiarist could hash, is immaterial, it is still a potential vuln)
asciilifeform: oooh gotta revisit upstack, briefly, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-01#1620677 << ~this~ in particular cannot be done as written. else, the first relayer of a freshly mined block could simply steal the work that went into determining luby(Z) and get massive head start on making his own block, which he then relays instead of the plagiarized. ☝︎
asciilifeform: what are ~all~ of the places where A has the ecstasy, but B does the laundry, where A!=B ☟︎
mircea_popescu: it is, cards on the table, more of a buried lie than ~anything else in the "protocol"
mircea_popescu: here's the idea : currently, you only know the pubkey for a bitcoin address once it spends ; before it spends you do not know its pubkey.
asciilifeform: which is , how would you have such a thing as a sanely-behaving balance to begin with
asciilifeform: if balances are visible -- anyone can see that addr A had a payment-P-shaped chunk subtracted from it at time T.
a111: Logged on 2016-10-20 20:37 asciilifeform: ('martian bank' being simply a naive abstraction of 'idealizes swiss bank', where money supply is constant, and i can send from account a1 can send to a2 if and only if i have the privkey for a1, and double-spend - impossible, etc.)
asciilifeform: ( i can't think of any reason why payee would care if payer A, or B, had supplied the agreed-upon amount )
mircea_popescu: i dunno, say politically. if you decide to claim tomorrow that there never was such a thing as c3, how do i deal with it ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, as an entirely idle example : the set of numbers with mpfhf defined on it is actually a fine example in this vein. it ISNT an algebraic structure ; but an algorithmic structure.
mircea_popescu: fucking art students wasting their life with http://jezebel.com/heres-a-woman-plopping-paint-eggs-out-of-her-vagina-1566693939
mircea_popescu: give me a non-algebraic set with interesting operations instead.
asciilifeform: (if you need a jupiter-sized machine, it isn't very hotstuff algo-wise)