tmsr - Search: i

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mircea_popescu: i expect girl to shave. ie, tomorrow. i don't expect anything out of the floor.

asciilifeform: 'oh i'll grunt and -- come what may !'

mircea_popescu: well, i said it's not even a bad idea back then.

ben_vulpes: i hope the point is coming through, though, that 'CI' is utterly irrelevant in the face of the scope of systems choreography demanded and actual tests to be written

ben_vulpes: (well, not entirely baseless, i've put a modicum of thought into the topic and have been pricing a new box to boot)

ben_vulpes: i went so far as to set up a solipsistic test net before bumping into the dumb-as-rocks "needs 2 nodes in order to mine" shit

ben_vulpes: anyways, having thought about "testing" trb, i am interested to hear what kinds of tests framedragger would write ☟︎

ben_vulpes: for v i suppose, nevermind.

ben_vulpes: to jump over to mod6's thread for half a second, both he and i have our own suite of automated tests

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i was attempting a nonretarded trb-fs.

mircea_popescu: (which i didn't originally even think will get mined)

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i measure it continuously, this is just distilled impression over years

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you haven't guessed, i have an incomplete one here (currently calling in my head 'nqb', 'not quite bitcoin') and was trying to adapt it to the very simple task of eating the existing blocks and parsing out the tx.

mircea_popescu: anyway, proper adatron -> trb-i -> fixed 2/2 txn model.

asciilifeform: where i is the number of inputs, and o -- of outputs.

asciilifeform: the equation i've come up with, is --assuming all scripts occupy their maximal size, 10000 bytes-- : 14+i*(10043)+(10011)*o

phf: i believe it's not explicitly bound (i combed for limits while writing lisp btc and found none for any of the struct combinations)

asciilifeform: ( for a certain purpose i need to calculate the max bytefootprint of a tx )

asciilifeform: unrelatedly, i have combed trb src for a cap on tx input and output maxima, and found none

asciilifeform: if 'at least', the degenerate case wins, i can qualify a block as the successor to itself

asciilifeform: as i currently understand, both x and y would have to be valid tx, for anything to happen (if y is invalid, it will not be mined).

asciilifeform: just as i described for 'tx vs larval-tx' disjunction.

mircea_popescu: i don't think at the time he did this he had a very clear idea of the mempool / blockchain tx disjunction.

asciilifeform: (i.e. by hash of antecedent, rather than by where-it-is-in-blockchain)

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that's what i ended up concluding

asciilifeform: phf: i suppose the correct term would be 'orphaned' patches

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i did not say that it is easy to find. but would like to know the consequences of one being found.

phf: and finally grapher now properly shows broken vpatches (i.e. ones that don't have all of the antecedents), for example http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=experimental all polarbeard ones, and my phf-shiva-swank are broken

asciilifeform: Framedragger, mircea_popescu : i can picture it

Framedragger: i thought mouseovers were already there? if you mean timestamps over nicks

asciilifeform: seems like a shit idea tho. 'oops there isn't a trb running on dulap, because ooops i broke the build'

asciilifeform: Framedragger: in point of fact i did not

Framedragger: asciilifeform: where thing builds software and runs it tests every time a change is made. i assume you know his and are therefore asking rhetorically tho

scriba: Logged on 2017-03-11: [21:18:59] <Framedragger> :). one decent part of devops is CI, i thought. it's even mentioned as possibility for trb dev http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-15#1466922

phf: yeah, i know, i broke a deploy

mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20170311/#883 << i do.

ben_vulpes: last few times i cracked a pyject, elpy and python-mode and friends proved...resistant to providing utility

phf: that's another reason, why i don't for example, "hack my python with vim like a real hacker". give me the filthiest, most feature rich IDE, where i can just push spacebar to get half of my scaffolding, or whatever kids these days ☟︎

trinque: as I understand it PostgreSQL is more or less "closest thing to oracle without having sold first-born per core"

ben_vulpes: jurov: i suppose that i'm pretty lucky to have never worked under anyone who thought oracle worth including in the matrix

Framedragger: what can i say, too much HN for me

trinque: that's exactly what I do for 350

Framedragger: i guess retort it "call me when you have 100 machines to adminster, kid"

trinque: the fuck I don't

Framedragger: i agree, start from tests, of course.

trinque: I dunno who canceled bash and ssh

a111: Logged on 2016-05-15 15:56 mod6: what i also want to build is a CI thingy for trb

Framedragger: :). one decent part of devops is CI, i thought. it's even mentioned as possibility for trb dev http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-15#1466922 ☝︎

jurov: Framedragger: experimenting really helps. i tried saltstack lightly, and the communication between master and minions was incredibly unreliable

ben_vulpes: heh now i'm imagining a research report which is just a link to log line

Framedragger: @all thanks to this chat i'll now make some urgent recommendations to startup i'm involved with. maybe it's not even gonna be fucked in the ass if moves decisively away. a bit ashamed i had $opinion on $thing-not-researched in the first place. ☟︎

jurov: glad I've never used docker. apparently they succeeded to reimplement oracle-corp-bezzle without backward compat, wd!

Framedragger: (anyway, i never would have recommended to use it in critical production. but looks like it's shit for personal local machine projects, too)

ben_vulpes: was guaranteed way to get boy out of house though "hey i'm here" *slamming around*

ben_vulpes: i have seen the most amazing kaleidescopic fireworks shows upon opening the machine

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: belt and suspenders, my comp worx 100% deterministically if i were to pull out the ups. disk controller battery.

asciilifeform: if i find that a piece of iron behaves nondeterministically in whatever way (purpose-built rngs aside) -- i throw it out.

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: dunno about you, i don't buy or keep around boxes that randomly lose bits.

Framedragger: (turns out i *didn't* read that hft article (https://thehftguy.com/2016/11/01/docker-in-production-an-history-of-failure/) fuuuuck)

ben_vulpes: i don't see any disagreement here

mircea_popescu: (though i suspect some segments of interwebs actually think it works thus)

ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i thought?

asciilifeform: i keep waiting for someone to introduce this fine tradition in usa

ben_vulpes: "yes i let you use her but she's still mine no matter what show you two got up to in the bedroom"

trinque: really it's a reaction to poverty, "lala no I really can't hear my neighbor taking a shit"

mircea_popescu: historical unix multiuser machine was purely political construct. like i could let ben_vulpes live in my vacation home, and it's "multi user" now.

Framedragger: trinque: asciilifeform: i concede your point lol. (last good one re cache was just a few days ago, too http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-06#1622509 ) ☝︎

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha, apparently i got fixated on it

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i think he had that one burned in rom

Framedragger: that said, fuck *again* i expose myself to arguing for a point i do not heartily believe in. need to reassess my shitty approach.

Framedragger: don't say i 'sulked' tho.

Framedragger: well i did, but you disagreed with the definition

trinque: I told you to define it and you sulked

Framedragger: trinque: re. unix, myeah, naivete, i agree

trinque: Framedragger: no, I said it's not a fucking thing on the same machine!

asciilifeform: i saw that pisser befoar!!

mircea_popescu: Framedragger actually your statement was "if you affirm X i will immediately prove you wrong".

Framedragger: i only see folks denying the concept of isolation, i maintain that it's not altogether a useless concept. disagreement in premises

trinque: twenty year old kid says in 201x "oh I will solve the problem of system state management on unix"

mircea_popescu: "i did not say this before any implementation failed though -- it was fine while it wasn't obviously failing"

trinque: "no this thing somebody else built defines me and I have the tshirt"

asciilifeform: i did say separate machines neh

mircea_popescu: oh i see.

mircea_popescu: i am saying the core concept of isolation is not useful. what now.

ben_vulpes: and then i waste a year and untold piles of shitbucks on docker

Framedragger: *sigh* i'll grant it that concepts are leaky and can't apply hammer to all problems etc etc; but you can't pretend that the core concept of isolation is not useful. just isolating fs, process, and network is already useful.

mircea_popescu: Framedragger honestly i know of no better than "get a box"

Framedragger: i expect folks regard the "crash and go away" as a feature - just restart it bro, etc.

ben_vulpes: no bitch, you will give me that process that is hosed. i want to diddle it further.

ben_vulpes: i--dirty. it--enjoyed.

ben_vulpes: i have wrestled this pig

ben_vulpes: you say this as though you think i'm unaware

Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-11#1625589 << yeah that's true, and i suppose one could do better than encouraging this trend ☝︎

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i never can remember which of the ex-relevant colonial powers are not in which instruments. eu except britain, nato aparently w/o sweden, but with norway, there's something else without norway and so on

ben_vulpes: the endless pile of "i would like to perform what i consider a basic operation of type X" "here have a shell script of awk and sed"

Framedragger: (i'll just mention that for persistent data, you are supposed to use bind mounts, not internal docker storage.)

Framedragger: ah i may have read it, did it mention DBs, too, as in "why the fuck would you put db in there"

ben_vulpes: "the hft guy" wrote what i consider the canonical beating, mirrors my experience quite exactly

Framedragger: i have some good memories from using bsd jails some years ago. the core concept of isolation (fs, process, network, etc) is not bad. providing integrated interface not a bad thing, either. problem with docker is it doesn't do it in a consistent way, is too bloated, is ~proprietary +/-, and does the abstraction in a way that invites lazy people to be even more lazy and reckless.

Framedragger: currently stealing booze from that inventory. some good old shit in there i tell you