asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-06#1765888 << fughet, for the final time, 'bazaar', esr ain't here, and aint' gonna be here. and it is wrong to use the whip used for esr, on actual people. until you grasp this, your universe will not contain actual people. to unsheath the esr whip here is a fundamentally solipsistic act. ☝︎

asciilifeform: and now it takes a lifetime to simply juggle the v-mechanics, leaving ~0 time for any of the 'irrelevant' detail like, say, writing ffa.

asciilifeform: and yes it is exactly same thing. mircea_popescu/trinque-style 'single hash' v is moar philosophically-coherent. change 1 byte ? you now live in separate universe. and anyone who wants to use any of yours, must manually create a new universe.

asciilifeform: thread inescapably reminds asciilifeform of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-24#1757902 . ☝︎

asciilifeform: i'll admit, i very much dungetit. errybody hated 2015-v from day 1 ? wanted the 1kb patches to be 1MB ? or wat.

asciilifeform: ... and i recommend then to dispense with the pretense of automation, and simply return to signing tarballs. moar honest, and logically equivalent.

asciilifeform: who wants to use -- go use. asciilifeform won't touch.

asciilifeform: *mortis

asciilifeform: apparently the 2016 mircea_popescu-rigormotris-v , as in http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-23#1589666 , is doomed to come back again and again 4evah ☝︎

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-06#1765884 << very easy to write infinite cheques on OTHER people's time, yes. ☝︎

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-06#1765882 << there is no 'random' that so 'happens'. if hash matches -- the delta is valid. end of story. this is what v was about from day 1. ☝︎

asciilifeform: ^ where just about EVERY patch has 2+ antecedents.

asciilifeform invites mircea_popescu to redraw picture seen in http://btcbase.org/patches . which incidentally is on 3rd year of looking exactly so, and mircea_popescu had plenty of time to barf.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that q was misconceived, see further in.

asciilifeform: aha. try as i might, original stands so far as best

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: who would pay for dope with cheque?!

asciilifeform: ( see also http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-13#1750150 ) ☝︎

asciilifeform: ahahaha

asciilifeform: dope correctly !

asciilifeform: the meat habituates

asciilifeform: daily dope is simply a black hole for money, even if it dun do you in

asciilifeform: pretty sure we had this thread..

asciilifeform: backpropagation has no analogy in meat, incidentally

asciilifeform: ( can do 'backpropagation', or 'genetic algo' to 'evolve' the params, or some other way )

asciilifeform: nn is a very broad item, and properly speaking the 'training' is distinct from the mechanics of the 'neurons' per se

asciilifeform: it works when used as prescribed.

asciilifeform: e.g. ocr

asciilifeform: 's house

asciilifeform: plus various special-purpose mechanisms even in asciilifeform

asciilifeform: alphago runs on nn

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: hm, kanzure ?

asciilifeform: good rng in fact lubricates convergence in all kinds of sims

asciilifeform: where, oddly, it works

asciilifeform: he got the notion ( re nn convergence, not methscope, lol ) from ancient log, where asciilifeform described own finding

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-25#1742992 << the quite memorable lulthread ☝︎

asciilifeform: was ( nominally... where IS his key ? ) d00d

asciilifeform: lol the methscopy

asciilifeform: 'didja want 3ring binder, or 4ring, or cleaner desk, or to think moarclearly' per naggum

asciilifeform: aaha

asciilifeform: sorta like in another thread re giving money to bears. just makes funnily shaped bear shit.

asciilifeform: iirc we had almost exactly this thread, with the tabs-spaces thing

asciilifeform: iirc trinque also has sumthing in back pocket , re subj.

asciilifeform: this is when asciilifeform admits that he has a small demo of this. but is being saved for after ffa, cuz Finishing Things Properly (tm)

asciilifeform: store data as fucking sexprs already. let the vt100 die.

asciilifeform: indentation and whitespace placement in general, oughta be a harem (i.e. terminal config) matter.

asciilifeform: nelson's doom goes away if you can staticize the text.

asciilifeform: is why i built it, yes

asciilifeform: q is not whether, but how

asciilifeform: we are here.

asciilifeform: then somebody made electric textrons where the text can... change. AFTER somebody already pointered into it.

asciilifeform: was bad enuff with print;

asciilifeform: herr leibniz

asciilifeform: aha.

asciilifeform: e.g. bible grew concordance, with word offsets etc

asciilifeform: aha.

asciilifeform: then gutenberg, and also became sometimes possible to refer to page.

asciilifeform: by title, author.

asciilifeform: there are texts. and long before gutenberg , texts knew how to refer to one another.

asciilifeform: hmm

asciilifeform: ( and imho not unjustifiably )

asciilifeform: it's the problem that drove ted nelson mad.

asciilifeform: forget writers of code and who-whom, for a minute, it's an actual unsolved

asciilifeform: trivial changes mutilate the pointer

asciilifeform: same problem as lines

asciilifeform: approx

asciilifeform: ( you want a unique e.g. rsa privmod, but without having to show it to anybody ... )

asciilifeform: in that case rng. in fact this is almost definition of what trng is for.

asciilifeform: harder is when there is not a record.

asciilifeform: if you have a record of all the prev shots, it is trivial to avoid recurring ( use simple counter ) ☟︎

asciilifeform: can!

asciilifeform: liekthat.

asciilifeform: in practice you can use e.g. 256bits of fg. asteroids will flatten you before it ever recurs.

asciilifeform: ^ there's gotta be a likbez in'ere.

asciilifeform: !#s gensym

asciilifeform: they're simply 'i want a piece of shit that won't recur'

asciilifeform: gensyms have 0 to do with centralized name lists or any *ns

asciilifeform: oblig eco : http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-08#1537275 ☝︎

asciilifeform: and come to think of it, damn near any eng trans of substantially complicated philosopher

asciilifeform found eng frege ~inedible

asciilifeform tries to think of most recent englischer worth reading... ...turing??

asciilifeform: watsa 'best grip' ?

asciilifeform: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/rvNE2/?raw=true << for convenience -- who i have so far.

asciilifeform: if there's anybody else who signed , but not currently visible in http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch5_egypt in appropriate spot -- plox to write in.

asciilifeform: !~later tell phf plox to snarf http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/ffa_ch3_shifts.vpatch.benvulpes.sig .

asciilifeform: or hm nm

asciilifeform: i have a ch4 for ben_vulpes but not a ch3...

asciilifeform: hey ben_vulpes didja ever sign ch3 ??

asciilifeform: !~later tell phf plox to snarf http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/ffa_ch4_ffacalc.vpatch.benvulpes.sig , ty

asciilifeform: luny: who might you be ?

asciilifeform: !!up luny

asciilifeform: i really gotta automate this 'meta' , the existing 'eyeball-powered' one is rather laughable.

asciilifeform: ( as shown by maxheight pre- and post- )

asciilifeform: it's the typical 1.

asciilifeform: mistakenly, lol

asciilifeform: anybody else see one ?

asciilifeform: 5 ( possibly 6 ) -high

asciilifeform: in unrealated noose, massive reorg on zoolag

asciilifeform: post the coad!

asciilifeform: this goes for anybody else who has a crackpot alt-v

asciilifeform: >> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1759157 << see also!111 ☝︎