log☇︎
427900+ entries in 0.275s
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform here's what i want to accomplish, as a goal : i want to be able to put up a linux system, then go curl http://trilema.com/autobitcoin.sh | gpg -verify > autobitcoin.sh. and then run that autobitcoin.sh, which auto-follows the changes of people i have selected for this task, builds them and runs them ☟︎
mircea_popescu: (reason is that stuff's written once, read many times)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i once thought about placing antecedent hashes in patch headers ☟︎
mircea_popescu: so : you wanna contribute, use this and that markup, then rest is done by itself. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: not on the fucken reader. prolly 2/3 of our problem as is
mircea_popescu: this is where im headed. have the syntax as a burden ON THE WRITER
punkman: with some metadata in diff files, we could have a script that creates a branched git repo entirely out of signed patch files
mircea_popescu: jurov what if the only way to add an edit is "deedbot pastebin/soandso" ?
jurov: mere switch to wiki won't solve it
jurov: i see it as minor change. majur obstacle is how to sanely track stuff who released, who signed
asciilifeform: as in, can i download whole thing and attribute every delta to a wot person ?
mircea_popescu: than the ml
mircea_popescu: in practice, it'd prolly be more practical to transition deedbot and its site to this job i think
jurov: i use dokuwiki for some stuff, too. and it can be authed only once per seesion like assbot
mircea_popescu knows nothing about these.
asciilifeform: wiki is a neat idea, but someone will have to invent signed-edits-wiki
mircea_popescu: not the doing. the notion.
mircea_popescu: jurov what do you think about switching to mediawiki ?
punkman just realizes he forgot to post working debug_sanity revision
mircea_popescu: for testing, for corner cases, for whatever the shit.
asciilifeform: well, one reason why possibly not is that i suspect that the ml is as quiet as it is because signing things is arduous
mircea_popescu: and that page can get sub-pages
asciilifeform: esp. if it can be limited to the wot set
mircea_popescu: changes, in the history tree - all signed.
mircea_popescu: ie, all things we do have a "current page"
asciilifeform: something i've been loathe to suggest because guess to whom the chore will fall
mircea_popescu: question : what if we ran this to look more like a wiki than a mailing list ?
asciilifeform: won't blame people, but will say that the state of the ecosystem (i.e. what folks are building on) is in such a sad state that the only plausible solution is os standardization
mircea_popescu: lemme state apropos of nothing that if you blame people for process not only are you an incredibly bad manager, but your organisation will fail, and in so doing give everyone a sigh of relief.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=01-08-2015#1221213 << seems like he is there ☝︎
mircea_popescu: and the last we heard of davout he was told exactly the same, and for all i know he's fallen in there never to be heard from again
assbot: Logged on 26-06-2015 21:23:15; jurov: ok ascii_field not turd , but this leaves things to be desired, too: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-January/000033.html
assbot: [BTC-dev] (EXPERIMENTAL) Full DNS Thermonuke! ... ( http://bit.ly/1COYWpv )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i bet you dollars to anything that the reason you don't get deluged in that is simply that moist folks are too interdicted by the task to even attempt, soi we don't hear about 99% of compat issues
jurov: but srs, i have asked for patches context, was sent to go scour the log for it
asciilifeform: it is a problem. but i must point out that most of the troubles folks have spoken of so far do not stem from it. e.g., trinque et al with their misbehaving systems.
jurov: structural? ohmy mircea's going to ban something :D
mircea_popescu: i swear this is a problem that's structural and should be solved, rather than just pushed against.
mircea_popescu: no, if you look at the history with open eyes it's quite clear we had this problem on back for a while now.
asciilifeform: i will add that a while ago i pictured myself in the predicament of folks trying to assemble the thing. which is why i included an unofficial flattened source with 'stator'
mircea_popescu: i don't even fully understand wtf hole we're filing. tho i think i understand a lot better right now than 3 hours ago.
mircea_popescu: how would this b-a versioning system work ? ☟︎
mircea_popescu: atm we're veering dangerously close to the old -dev process, where they just shat magic stones.
mircea_popescu: they need to be supported, is what im telling you.
asciilifeform: this'd be the snip-snips.
mircea_popescu: anyway, to get back to it : in ordere to ever reach 0 kelvin, you must use at least some elements that provably reduce temperature.
mircea_popescu: if you design your thing like reproduction works, do not be surprised.
asciilifeform: nah it's the work of 'aunt dumb'
mircea_popescu: will take more.
mircea_popescu: reproduction is the work of man, and reproduction has TO DATE taken over 2 million strokes. today.
asciilifeform: or 677`321 for that matter.
asciilifeform: and i say that no work of man needs 1`677`321 changes.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> i never objected to folks using 'git', 'mercurial', etc. - only to the notion that <
asciilifeform: nothing needs 1`677`321 changes to go to zero kelvin !!
mircea_popescu: care to hear where it started ?
mircea_popescu: looky here : i am a magical witch doctor that can spot where cancer starts.
asciilifeform: software is not that intrinsically complicated.
asciilifeform: it is ~The~ test.
asciilifeform: aaaaand this is when i decide that the thing has brain cancer.
asciilifeform: sorta doing this with the linux kernel, actually
mircea_popescu: suppose you can't read at the pace new ones get added.
asciilifeform: i'd read them.
mircea_popescu: you go to the ML, and lo, there's 1`677`321 messages in there.
mircea_popescu: suppose you come back in 2025. suppose we've been living and thriving though this time.
mircea_popescu: ok, gefuxexperiment. suppose you get hit in the head, and go into a coma.
asciilifeform: i never objected to folks using 'git', 'mercurial', etc. - only to the notion that anything that can't come out of a printer and then ocr'd back in could be the canonical representation of the path from pedigreed 0.5.3 to us
mircea_popescu: can we just design the thing, if for no other reason then for the exercise, and then see what already exists and if we like it ?
mircea_popescu: so basically, help me out here. this should be a website which maintains a code tree and a signature tree ?
chetty: go to meeting?
asciilifeform would like this very much
mircea_popescu: anyway. the idea here is specifically that we want you to be in a position where the plane and chalkboard perspective doesn't loom.
asciilifeform: but would like to think that it isn't, aha
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes sorta implied this
mircea_popescu: why do you think it's about you anyway ?
asciilifeform: i did offer to help. what do i have to do, get on a plane with chalkboard in bag ?
mircea_popescu: there's no reason for this to take a week to do. ☟︎
assbot: Logged on 31-07-2015 21:50:52; hanbot: ascii_field hanbot, what are the remaining issues? << rotor.sh sez: http://thewhet.net/han/rotorfail.txt (no patches) meanwhile mod6 has made progress on RI on ubuntu so still working on "manual" stator build.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell hanbot so is the node up ? where ? is there a recipe-from-own-eyes somewhere ? where ?
mircea_popescu: and hanbot must also be able to evaluate the theoretical advances in question., inseparable.
mircea_popescu: hanbot must be able to put into work the theoretical advances b-a produces <
asciilifeform: in this context
mircea_popescu: it's not effectual and won't scale is the dispute.
asciilifeform: that the existing process is precisely correct
mircea_popescu: how is this an argument and what does it argue for ?
asciilifeform: plenty of folks who aren't the least 'phd' have built, and are running, the thing
mircea_popescu: when you have a phd assembly line, the problem is not "insufficient phds"
mircea_popescu: mno. this is a tooling problem.
mircea_popescu: the stator saving of the continuity feeling was too narrow for my liking. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: but just as the saying goes, past performance is no guarantee of future success. that we readily crushed the "omai, bigger blocks" initiative, like all "initiatives" to date does not offer any guarantee we'll manage next time.
mircea_popescu: stalin despised the peasant, and the usg despises the scum we despise, equally if not moreso.
asciilifeform: ah, that
mircea_popescu: actual, bona fide love of the multitudes ?
mircea_popescu: what do you think all this "software for the people" kick is ?
mircea_popescu: which is why they're probing the U side atm.
mircea_popescu: but in any case, a purely M wot will eventually fail, no matter how effectual or powerful it is (and it is, ftr, factually) on the financial side
mircea_popescu: the reason this was possible is fortunately very easy to fix, once we understood what the hole was.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, because it failed to even conceptualize the M part, let alone address it, it remained open to attack which the us first probed (with its corporate tentacles, ms etc) and then crushed, with its agency teeth.
mircea_popescu: this is ultimately why foss failed. yes, it did (sort of, but originally much better than currently) allow the U seating part.
mircea_popescu: and both sides gotta be done at the same time.
mircea_popescu: this "choose your own giant" system is definitely powerful enough to take over the world, but we still gotta figure out a way to allow such seating.