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BingoBoingo: Is there a cannonical link for this classic somewhere in the archives rather than the toilet? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=124441.0;imode

ben_vulpes: aight, get me a quote. gonna head out for a run

mircea_popescu: not yet. asciilifeform we gotta get a quote to these folk, what do you figure ?

ben_vulpes: all the fg sitting here are spoken for; did mod6 ever get a quote for the ten or so i wanted?

mircea_popescu: well also a month of rack

ben_vulpes: although perhaps i gotta sell it to you as i won't have a spare to fulfill that promise until the next run.

ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: 0.2881443 * 1.2 = .34577317 , and yes you'll have a spare

mircea_popescu: so what's the deal here : i pay for a year, at the price of 0.048xxx * 12 / 2 * 1.2 ; at the end of the year i don't own the machine ; but if it breaks down during the year you replace it free of charge to me ?

ben_vulpes: i can give you a pretty steep discount for paying the year up front, but because i'm building out the downline i want to keep the box on the balance sheet. how about a 20% markup on the machine if you pay for the whole year? ☟︎☟︎

mircea_popescu: mno. if you rent it out for 2x what it costs to buy it over a year, then if i pay for the whole year i'm basically spending the same money as if buying the machine, but not actually buying it. this is a bum deal. i'm willing to rent it (ie, monthly) or buy it (ie, own it), but i'm not willing to eat the downside of both approaches.

ben_vulpes: you wanna pay for a year of hardware up front and invoices for rack space as they come due?

mircea_popescu: maybe a little on teh expensive side, but, let's not be splitting hairs.

mircea_popescu: also, wasn't specifically a proposal ; was just an example, to get that ball rolling already.

a111: Logged on 2018-02-23 15:34 mircea_popescu: also ben_vulpes : the thinking over at s.mg is that we want a dedicated box for teh server plus a vps for holding the website and such things, so we don't have to eat the whole apache overload on the game server.

ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-23#1785673 << makes sense, i just published the gear Pizarro has for hire immediately. i can either lease you that box *or* a vps on it :\ immediately, but i'll also be running more boxes down in the near future ☝︎

phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-24#1785862 << that's the idea, but __attribute__ is a gcc specific feature. i'd like to have a catalog of such extension because i noticed there's few more here and there ☝︎

BingoBoingo: Seems to be the case with a lotta 2013 names

a111: Logged on 2013-01-17 00:26 mircea_popescu: "I've survived entirely on bitcoin for a whole year. "

BingoBoingo: 1800's South America has some truly lulzy history. Buenos Aires and Brasilero Empire agree to make Uruguay as a buffer state. Proceed to beat up on Uruguay for a decade. Buenos Aires, Brasilero empire, and Uruguay make peace by going up river and beating Paraguay into pretribal Apocalypse.

BingoBoingo: They area I'm in Pocitos/Buceo barrios were resort towns until the city swallowed them. Most of the other Barrios came into the city similarly as encampments and villages that the city just kind of grew into. Reading into the history here it was a sparsely populated country of men until the 1880's. Then the Italians came.

BingoBoingo: I'm still learning and this is a very rural city.

mircea_popescu: local receptionist girly (that's the supreme social achievement for the hairdresser class chickie here, being a doc's receptionist is almost as good as being marriewd to him) at the cima hospital (best in the country!!!) was utterly shocked when my response to her telling me the doctor who was like 10 mins late just called to say he's "on his way" but no specific eta wasn't "ok, ok" but "thast's unfortunate, i have other appo

BingoBoingo: I've learned local moo cows get a bit more responsive the next time, after walking away from them because you have an appointment to make. Actual appointment not necessary.

mircea_popescu: and yes, re rythm : time discipline is not a torture device, it's a tool. it's supposed to help you achieve your goals not make life inconvenient.

asciilifeform digs for a tripod

asciilifeform: exceedingly difficult to fit both a little clock face and my face in 1 frame. ( doesn't mircea_popescu already have a picture of my mug , lol )

asciilifeform: i'ma write an actual essay about time, when i figure out an actual rhythm worth writing of. currently all i have is a 'triage', to actually track what eats resource, and cut off deprioritized ( mainly , real-time interactions... ) items when running short.

asciilifeform: ohai mircea_popescu . hands were full. but now have a http://www.loper-os.org/pub/triage_clocks_1.jpg and a http://www.loper-os.org/pub/triage_clocks_2.jpg .

mircea_popescu: i've been on a blogreading kick of late.

mircea_popescu: speaking of fire, http://trilema.com/2013/the-broad-and-the-million-fireants-a-parable/ !!!

BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> hard sheep makes a life worth living, eh ? << It really does. Who knew getting fired could be such a great thing when the right person does the firing.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform did i miss a picture post somehow ?

mircea_popescu: a there we go, extern void xalloc_die(void) __attribute__((noreturn));

mircea_popescu: truth -- the latins were idiots ; nevermind they didn't even have zero in their lol of a numeration system -- they didn't even have commas. or, for that matter, dots. meta-alphabetic notation (such as the dash here that permited me to ~signify~ something about symbol relation) is entirely a post-industrial invention. fuck, the bright minds of alchemy-era mathematics didn't even have =.

mircea_popescu: (for the innocent : a wildcatter is say philiph's character in clemens' "the gilded age", or more generally any guy who sees a mine where no one else does.)

mircea_popescu: hard sheep makes a life worth living, eh ?

phf: and both 4.6 and 4.4 refuse to compile it. a temporary workaround is to compile with `make vdiff -D_Noreturn='

phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-23#1785630 << so offending attribute is _Noreturn, which is a c11 feature that was only introduced in 4.7. but! i tested with 4.6.4 on freebsd before release, i now also compiled 4.4.3 and it still works. running cpp-4.4 on the file it looks like something in freebsd headers actually replaces _Noreturn with an __attribute__ call that older gcc's support. with a test file with `void _Noreturn foo() {...}' but without any includes, ☝︎

BigTexasBingo: mircea_popescu used correctly. Me voy a dormir nuevamente. Not often a person can catch a live painsuit in the logs these days.

BigTexasBingo: And what about your fag hags? Or are you not a cool gay.

mircea_popescu: she had a point.

mircea_popescu: the delusion of access is aftert all the fundamental cornerstone of pantsuitism. hence all the inept wank a la lucy, and hence the butthurt gal on day of failure comment section

orgndnor: wsup = hood english transliterates to: "what is up" hence defining a query as to the current subject relevant

orgndnor: you a native romanian?

mircea_popescu: try and understand that taking refuge in a string of nouns after having pointed out to you that most people will just discard out of hand strings of epithets as pure painstuitola isn't the best of strategies.

mircea_popescu: what's a singularity and what's a wsup ?

mircea_popescu: you're not making much sense, you know. pick some priors and build a thread.

mircea_popescu: what's a weak jewline ?

orgndnor: you got a weak jawline herr popescu

orgndnor: well, i've read a lot of material. most of the available logs, monsiuer p's blogs...

a111: Logged on 2018-02-23 15:39 mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-23#1785670 << This seems like a decent grant to offer. We'll consider.

lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-23#1785685 << I am honored to be considered for such a grant. Will continue work to eventually demonstrate grant-worthiness in form of blog post / application. ☝︎

lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-21#1785459 << incidentally, this doc has been very useful thus far in illuminating my own naivete. Spent the last coupla days just learning ultra-basics of, e.g. hash preimage, second preimage, and collision resistance. Hell, I even had to look up simple big O notation. I am, however, learning it, at least. "One day at a time" ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-02-23 14:52 mircea_popescu: and as to the final thing : the whole idea of the archive item (which lobbes asked for and i very much doubt he realised at the time what an immense item it is) is to RECONSTRUCT the poorly designed "web" into proper structure. hence the merkle tree discussions and so on. so very much yes, eventually we'll be using a proper republican accessing scheme.

mod6 is drinking a bottle of water after snow-removal. am quite stunned it doesn't say "Gluten Free" on the bottle.

mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-23#1785705 << this seems to be a fair point, where one has a "sane" thing to begin with. ☝︎

BingoBoingo: ^ In other http://trilema.com/2014/people-us-dollars-are-not-worth-a-fifth-of-a-bitcent-stop-selling/#selection-193.97-193.392

mircea_popescu: yeah, get a rack with meathooks in there too, will double as punishment room jus' fine

asciilifeform: at one time asciilifeform worked in a lab with a freeze room, it was great.

mircea_popescu: i'm seriously considering getting an actual freeze room next place. like a fucking restaurant ;/

mircea_popescu: in other sad news, i need a new fridge ;/

a111: Logged on 2018-02-23 16:03 BingoBoingo: One benefit of prolongued Republican exposure: Every now and then you come across a coy newsy thing that dances around a fact, when the fact really should have been the headline.

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-23#1785703 << some discoveries re the idiocy of the enemy are so astonishingly, riotously vexing of the very imagination, that they are difficult to believe. like the time that an ex-nsa-grunt stuck sharing an oar with asciilifeform on a slavegalley, insisted that usg until late obummer reign did not have a canonical Official implementation of rsa, and that when such was finally ratified , it was from a ☝︎

mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you know what they say, a tendency to bury the lede in journalism is not unlike a tendency to spread legs in a convent : sure signs one does not actually belong there.

mircea_popescu: ima waste all the dozens of bytes at a time i feel like, holy hell "install disc". TO INSTALL AN X THAT CRASHES ALL CLIENTS.

mircea_popescu: nothing wrong with two separate utilities built on the same lib exposing different edges. "wasteful" but in a veheheheeeery theoretical sense, when compared to 10mb webpages.

asciilifeform: that part makes sense. but conceptually they're different ops. and could even live inside same binary but invoked variantly to simulate being different ones, a la busybox say.

asciilifeform: the job of decoding a rsaoid and getting a hash, and the job of hashing a 100GB thing and getting the orig hash to compare to, as part of verifying a sig, are conceptually quite separate. really oughta be separate proggies, per 'unix philosophy' or even any reasonable successor to it

asciilifeform ate log; has a 10min slot.

BingoBoingo: One benefit of prolongued Republican exposure: Every now and then you come across a coy newsy thing that dances around a fact, when the fact really should have been the headline. ☟︎

mircea_popescu: fwiw, i don't think shellouts PER SE are a bad idea, or the wrong thing, or untenable. much like the notion of building houses WITH DOORS isn't in itself problematic. now, what gets in through those holes, well...

mod6: Well... I'm worried that if start to try to pin down all of the versions and their hashes, it just adds a bunch of complexity.

mod6: I've gotta go snow blow this 8" of snow. Will think on it a bit.

mod6: mircea_popescu: I see your point re-hashes, might be something to consider in the future. Been avoiding painting myself into a corner with the prototype.

a111: Logged on 2018-02-23 15:32 mircea_popescu: incidentally mod6 : given teh centrality of teh work he's doing, do you suppose teh foundation could be prevailed upon to give lobbes a grant so he can get himself a shiny dedicated box with pizarro ? could for instance http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-21#1785458 work as teh application ?

mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-23#1785670 << This seems like a decent grant to offer. We'll consider. ☝︎☟︎

mircea_popescu: and obviously calling it "a list" of hashes is just another playful reference to teh prior discussion. lel.

mircea_popescu: then you could just keep a list of these and people ~would know~ when it is useful to report their runs.

mircea_popescu: print a warning, "your X util exists, but its hash differs from what i ran this on, so please test and report" ?

mircea_popescu: i'd take it one step further and : mod6 do you think it might be a good idea to actually include hashes ?

mircea_popescu: also ben_vulpes : the thinking over at s.mg is that we want a dedicated box for teh server plus a vps for holding the website and such things, so we don't have to eat the whole apache overload on the game server. ☟︎

a111: Logged on 2018-02-21 18:48 mircea_popescu: normally i'd have alf explain it to you ; but he's busy. so what i want you to do is write a blog article about "how to use merkle trees to avoid duplicate problem in web page archiving", and then i'll comment on it.

mircea_popescu: incidentally mod6 : given teh centrality of teh work he's doing, do you suppose teh foundation could be prevailed upon to give lobbes a grant so he can get himself a shiny dedicated box with pizarro ? could for instance http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-21#1785458 work as teh application ? ☝︎☟︎

mircea_popescu: and as to the final thing : the whole idea of the archive item (which lobbes asked for and i very much doubt he realised at the time what an immense item it is) is to RECONSTRUCT the poorly designed "web" into proper structure. hence the merkle tree discussions and so on. so very much yes, eventually we'll be using a proper republican accessing scheme. ☟︎

a111: Logged on 2017-12-26 21:42 phf: we also at some point had a thread, where i believe ascii but also others were leaning towards the idea of a single file vpatches (i.e. that a vpatch should only ever contain hunks for a single file). i'm starting to think that multi-file solutions in general are a hack ("we can't fit the entire compilation in memory"), but then i've been looking at TeX on one hand, and the "millions of support files" in diff/patch on the other

spyked: very similar discussion to e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-26#1758790 ; diff works on hunks, not files, similarly, hypertext works on trees, not files. but this is only a (not very well thought out so far) intuition. ☝︎

spyked: there's another thing, though I still have to get up to date on http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=hypertext : teh Trilema JS is trying to solve what seems to be a limitation in the current URI scheme. the "resource" in URI refers to documents/pages (files!), whereas we want to (and it would be useful to be able to) link to subtrees in the document.

spyked: editor might actually make a good basis for a browser. emacs, if we were to take greenspun's tenth rule into account.

spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-22#1785621 <-- ugh, my engrish; of course, by "highlighting" I mean "text selection", which is a GUI thing, and w3m and lynx/links seem to lack it altogether. now, scrolling they don't lack, but the js bit still doesn't implement window.scroll. anyway, let's consider the fact that text editors implement both selection and scrolling (and possibly other features useful for a browser), so a stripped-down text ☝︎

phf: a ty

a111: Logged on 2018-02-06 01:57 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo phf trinque diana_coman so i'm thinking of basically getting a dozen amd fx-8350s (because just 125w compared to say fx-9590s 220) racked in u2 mbs (say maybe ASRock 970M PRO3 ? i thinkl that fits in 2u neh ?) with 64 gb ram each and a coupla ssds ? any complaints/suggestions ?

mircea_popescu: as in any case the E' will have to be resolved by recourse to the forum, and as b) is not all that insignificant, the dT investment is a poor usage of your limited T resource.

mircea_popescu: then later, events E that fall within W will take (putatively) less time to resolve than events E' that fall within the epsilon ; however a) the probability of E'/E is not equal to the factor R/epsilon (but worse) and b) all this requires people actually read W, which is a cost (leaving aside how it's also something some won't pay).

mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes to explain what i mean : there's some reality the contract handles (R) and some actual wording of the contract W. the delta R-W can be brought under an arbitrary value epsilon, but not to zero. the delta epsilon translates in a delta time dT you have to pour into the wringing of this allignment.

mircea_popescu: !~later tell loren good idea to get your key in wot anyway ; otherwise the eventual "loren" will still be a day old item

mircea_popescu: mod6 it is incorrect to start with the pie-in-sky "own os" though. it is instead correct to start with a catalogue of usable if unideal extants.

trinque: creates a place for debate on *what's* correct

trinque: and we get a repository of those going.

spyked: shinohai, my guess so far is that text browsers completely lack window interaction (e.g. scrolling, text highlighting), so they can't do the Trilema bits. but I want to be able to give a proper answer, which requires a bit of debugging.

spyked: will write up a blog post when I'm done