tmsr - Search: " T"

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mircea_popescu: THAT someone isn't admitting to idiocy, preferring isntead to derp about how "Ceo is supposed to know all".

mircea_popescu: indeed. but here's the hidden truth : the idiots TALKING TO HIM about it are no different from the people asking beautician re politics.

mircea_popescu: cto's job is to understand why robots have limits, if the company is doing robots.

mircea_popescu: this totally orc bullshit where everyone is an expert in everyone's field already...

mircea_popescu: but for the nitpick : it's not the job of the ceo to know why robots have limits.

asciilifeform: moar spectacular tho, candle burns at both ends

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-13#1737193 << in no sense more terminal than say apple. ☝︎☟︎

jhvh1: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.

BingoBoingo: !~later tell mircea_popescu http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/iJ8bz/?raw=true

asciilifeform: 'The Chinese miners were instructed to continue mining the coin, even at great financial loss, to support a pretension of value and use, minimally sustaining its life. When the price troughed, those who were in the know about the plan accumulated it in large quantities' etc.

asciilifeform: meanwhile, in very vintage lulz, https://archive.is/I5JC0 >> 'Secretary of State Baker said Washington would not object to military intervention in Romania by Soviets or the Warsaw Pact.'

asciilifeform: ^ pheeature idea : why not have ticker autofire when the number moves >10% from last tick ☟︎

asciilifeform: as i understand, ordinary keccak suffices for this scheme

diana_coman: at a first pass this duplex thing based on keccak seems to be a similar attempt really, hence my question if anyone looked at it more closely (I'm still trying to fully grasp it, not there yet)

asciilifeform: makes sense then

asciilifeform: yea that's hash-as-blockcipher

a111: Logged on 2017-10-06 23:13 mircea_popescu: basically the scheme is, you rsa a random bitfield, then you expand that into as much otp as you want by doing recursively Fi = hash(bitfield + Fi-1). there's a limit on i, obviously, which can be set to 1.

diana_coman: asciilifeform, re mp's algo, it was this: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-06#1722036 ☝︎

asciilifeform: tbh i dun expect to live to see such a thing

diana_coman: yees, but conceivably there might be one in the future; if no knob then no point as it were, entirely

asciilifeform: ( we dun have a scientific approach to symmetric ciphering. )

asciilifeform: the boojum is that neither i nor anybody else knows of any rational way to quantify the compromise. ☟︎

diana_coman: heh, true that; I think first trouble there is that "never-reuse" choice means "no-knob" for client who pays however for the traffic; the whole point was precisely to let player choose their own level of compromise between cost and security (otps are generated on the server for good reason)

asciilifeform: if you use actual one-time -- you then dun have to reinvent symmetric ciphering

asciilifeform: how atrociously slow does the 'never reuse' variant look ?

diana_coman: I meant the choice of specific, concrete way to expand the original bitfield i.e. "reuse the otp"

asciilifeform: for so long as you're actually using otp (i.e. 1 byte of key used for exactly 1 byte of payload) it's the only logical option

diana_coman: asciilifeform, the second part is not so well defined/fixed yet

asciilifeform: iirc you were gonna use mircea_popescu's algo ( use rsa to send otp pages, then later use'em )

diana_coman: however so far I focused on the reference paper on keccak itself (The Keccak reference version 3.0)

diana_coman: well, I have several papers on keccak and one of them is this "Duplexing the sponge: single-pass authenticated encryption and other applications"

asciilifeform: keccak is immune to length-extension attack so it is pretty straightforward to convert it into a cipher

asciilifeform: diana_coman: iirc it was in the original paper

diana_coman: I can't seem to find in the logs any discussion re duplex construction/duplexing the sponge i.e. keccak's authors own proposal of using keccak for authenticated encryption; did anyone look into this? ☟︎

asciilifeform: if 'machine' i'd rather have handwritten 32kb asm thing, than whatever 'best effort' gcc shits out.

phf: well, i'm thinking in terms of a TMSR MACHINE. scheme.adb linked against ffa linked against that com1 hack you posted some time ago :p

asciilifeform: imho it dun particularly make sense to have gc in this application

phf: right, so that scheme.adb would benefit from a way to cons onto an arbitrary sized array, and then later someone can bolt a gc on top of that. can even implement it as an explicit function call rather than a threshold thing

asciilifeform: to put it in libctronic terms, the resulting linux binary will call setbrk() ~exactly once~ in its life

asciilifeform: and not 'as much as you want' but up to B bytes, with B given on commandline and stackframed on warmup. ☟︎

phf: like in php model? allocate as much as you want and then "free" on termination?

a111: Logged on 2017-11-12 23:12 asciilifeform: i'm not fully convinced that a scripting lang ~needs~ a gc

asciilifeform: ( there is however the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-12#1736844 pov ) ☝︎

phf: asciilifeform: i'm using "memory management" meaning of cons, not like lisp 101 take on it. they don't have cons meaning that there's no managed heap, there's no gc on that heap, and you can't allocate things into the heap and let it be managed by heap machinery. so they have "cons", but their ~actual~ cons is ada's "new ..."

asciilifeform: ( though they are useful for cache locality )

a111: Logged on 2017-07-13 15:42 asciilifeform: phf: contrary to appearances, asciilifeform is not fixated on ada lang per se, but rather on the style of thinking it leads the operator into.

phf: somewhat relatedly one handy thing i saw on CADR is named cons regions, i.e. explicit memory regions where you can cons and every allocation function having a *-in-region equivalent, like (cons-in-region x y region). i'm not sure if that's there, but you presumably can do some kind (with-cons-region (region ...) body) thing. naturally those regions can be saved (preserved referential integrity) or cleared, etc.

asciilifeform: whole thing reads like straight translation from c ☟︎

asciilifeform: https://github.com/fitzgen/ada-scheme/blob/master/scheme.adb#L134 << the faux cons. observe, they use pointers for the car/cdr

phf: right, i suspect that scheme.adb doesn't touch on it, because, again, no cons

asciilifeform: ( the operative difference is that indices are bounded , and you can reason meaningfully about'em )

phf: i'm not sure how you're planning on doing that, unless you mean ada level pointers. you'd have to have objects with values that are offsets into your virtual heap

asciilifeform: ( there's no particular reason why you can't have a schemetron use strictly arrays and integer indices into same )

asciilifeform: and get rid of the pointers. ☟︎

phf: there be dragons. i mean, if you're rewriting a parser in lisp, then you might as well have proper readtables, rather then hardcoded sexp hack

asciilifeform: and rewrite the parser per se in scheme ( have it be present as commented bytecode constant ) ☟︎

a111: Logged on 2017-11-13 18:13 asciilifeform: use Ada.Strings.Unbounded; << mno ben_vulpes this is ~specifically~ a Do Not Want

phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-13#1737247 << it looks like a properly structured scheme evaluator, but it's ~explicitly~ lacking a native cons, which might be a very good exercise for whoever™ adding a static allocation space, adding mark-and-sweep, then all those To_Unbounded_String look like they can be simply search/replaced ☝︎☟︎

asciilifeform: also you don't want to cons. at. all.

ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: absolutely, have a benchmarking in place, will be implementing those two changes and recording improvements

asciilifeform: but if you want to make a fast mphftron, for experimentation, the recipe is 1) compute upper bound of the scratch space length and preallocate. NEVER realloc 2) NEVER flip-all-the-bits, flip a 'did-we-flip' bit instead, and the latter always get xor'd with whatever bit you read from the flippablespace.

asciilifeform: though asciilifeform will admit to still being at a loss re what the appeal is , after these...

a111: Logged on 2017-08-15 22:51 asciilifeform: but instead flipping a single bit that gets xored with the result every time you read from the would-have-been-flipped reg.

a111: Logged on 2017-11-13 17:47 ben_vulpes: and in ancients, dusted off mpfhf benchmarker, finished the bit-banging of inputs, fired off a run late last week that is *still hashing*

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-13#1737245 << if you apply the bound we found in http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-06#1679483 thread, and the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-15#1698509 trick, mphf a not-especially-slow hash ☝︎☝︎☝︎

asciilifeform: lobbes: does this mean that you can mirror the whole zip collection nao ? ☟︎

a111: Logged on 2017-11-13 16:51 lobbes: Good news on archive front; archive.is d00d has agreed to add my ips to his cloudflare whitelist

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-13#1737238 << this is very neat ☝︎

asciilifeform: use Ada.Strings.Unbounded; << mno ben_vulpes this is ~specifically~ a Do Not Want ☟︎

trinque: "bitch, this hash function is hard in *both* directions!"

ben_vulpes: and in ancients, dusted off mpfhf benchmarker, finished the bit-banging of inputs, fired off a run late last week that is *still hashing* ☟︎☟︎

ben_vulpes made some headway through lisp in small pieces, mind appropriately blown

ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-12#1736892 << some years ago, several people got together and worked through 'an incremental approach to compiler construction', one nick fitzgerald worked through it in ada: https://github.com/fitzgen/ada-scheme ☝︎☟︎

lobbes: Very accommodating d00d indeed. I invited him here, as well, but you know how that goes ☟︎

lobbes: trinque, yeah. Hopefully will be able to bypass the cloudflare js/cookie challenge wall

trinque: nice lobbes. this means you'll not be ratelimited? or what was the problem?

lobbes: Good news on archive front; archive.is d00d has agreed to add my ips to his cloudflare whitelist ☟︎☟︎

BingoBoingo: If making pies, you have to make the best, and best means round.

trinque: surely the tickerbot has been switched to bitcoin crash? what do I make of this?

asciilifeform bbl, teatime

asciilifeform: ( 1 caveat is that this is a leaking operation , theoretically )

mod6: sorry if this is obvious, wasn't to me.

asciilifeform: but yes you can use each of the 2 discarded bottom bits to double the primespace available

asciilifeform: ignore the 5step thing

mod6: so in your algo above, you're saying that you can work that magic with just the ~lowest~ discarded digit

mod6: yeah, /me re-read and Mr. P. said they discard the higest 2 digits

asciilifeform: there is no legitimate reason to do it. ☟︎

asciilifeform: the shaving of the ~highest~ bits is an idiot kochism on the other hand,

asciilifeform: they are the only ones you MUST set to 1 (i.e. lose the entropy of)

mod6: when you say 'lost bottom bits' worth of entropy -- you save the discarded bits and use them later', are you talking about the highest order 2 digits, and the lowest 1, saving their original lower-order half and using that?

asciilifeform: it will do exactly same thing as traditional one, but take 1000x as long.

asciilifeform: 1) calculate what a certain b is, such that there are likely to be 2^4096 primes below 2^b-1

a111: Logged on 2017-11-07 16:36 asciilifeform: let's model the ideal prime-shitter. it would be an item that takes integer N , of whatever bitness, and produce the Nth prime ( or eggog if the Nth prime is bigger than the register bitness permitted. )

asciilifeform: but you can trivially show that using the bottom bits in this way lets you actually get 4x as many possible primes ☟︎

asciilifeform: mod6: noshit koch doesn't do this

mod6: even /if/ doing some prime selection based on 'discarded bits' would net you anything what-so-ever, is it shown, presently that they even do this?

mod6: im not sure about that

asciilifeform: as i see it, this circle is satisfactorily squared nao.

asciilifeform: re the rsa key entropy, it is possible to trivially regain the lost bottom bits' worth of entropy -- you save the discarded bits and use them later as triggers for 'take nextprime(p) instead of p' and 'take nextprime(q) instead of q' . there may be other possible algos

a111: Logged on 2017-11-13 05:11 asciilifeform: so it is quite in keeping with this, for it to , say, pioneer 'robot works in vacuum, and moves without hindrance of air resistance, ReallyFast!' etc