log☇︎
10600+ entries in 0.11s
diana_coman: I didn't even realise there was some way to see it as protection against ...what? code copying or what?
Mocky: i've also been on both sides of make / break protections (although break for fun not pay). if hash is used as protection, i see that as valid objection
asciilifeform: Mocky: this is a q for diana_coman ? ( as i understand, it is meant to make the use of obsolete (currently published) client , moar difficult )
a111: Logged on 2018-07-17 13:41 asciilifeform: diana_coman: the conundrum from my pov is that why to bother with protections if 'so what if they break, not as if it does anything'
asciilifeform: diana_coman: the conundrum from my pov is that why to bother with protections if 'so what if they break, not as if it does anything' ☟︎
asciilifeform: the hashes thing strikes me as promisetronic, it is already 'honour system', why not simply identify the client by name, same effect.
diana_coman: it can compile it as much as it wants, server won't answer for one thing ☟︎
diana_coman: perhaps a more fleshed out exercise: say there are clients A and B that have binaries released and accepted by Eulora's server (as per known hashes) ; sources of those are released to l1
diana_coman: it's still open to discussion as far as I can see it so any comments are most welcome
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835518 << linus is not immortal, and i expect that he will lose control of kernel -- just as he stupidly lost control of his trademark to 'linux foundation' (y'know, with gavin on staff) -- even before dies ☝︎☟︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2018-07-17 03:24 Mocky: if shortwave repeater was in l1 confidence and one day i became l1, i wouldn't see having to keep that secret as a burden.
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-16#1835039 <-- this imho doesn't make asciilifeform an idiot, it makes user responsible for whatever setup he runs the binary on. the same guarantee would be given for hypothetical linux kernel with changed abi as for mswindows kernel. as much as the word of heathens are not to be trusted, heathen did promise e.g. https://archive.is/KD183#selection-248.64-248.65 . so imho misbehaving kernel will just be ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2018-07-16 15:44 mircea_popescu: the evident disadvantage is that this only works if we can rely on l1 to keep a secret ; which means things (such as, that it can't be as big, for instance).
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-16#1834926 <-- and yet, despite the disadvantage, it seems there may be items such as http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835358 that are both big and l1-only, despite the risk involved. hence my (ii) above. ☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-07-16 15:44 mircea_popescu: as we're contemplating an eulora client rewrite, i am contemplating the following code release paradigm : client author a) releases code encrypted to l1, signed and deeded (so basically, gpg -aer asciilifeform -r ave1 -r etc) ; b) releases precompiled binaries for allcomers.
a111: Logged on 2018-07-16 15:44 mircea_popescu: as we're contemplating an eulora client rewrite, i am contemplating the following code release paradigm : client author a) releases code encrypted to l1, signed and deeded (so basically, gpg -aer asciilifeform -r ave1 -r etc) ; b) releases precompiled binaries for allcomers.
ave1: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-16#1834921, ack. I think it's a brilliant idea. Especially, points (2) and (3) and I'm not worried about the "keeping a secret" parts. First, I've worked for companies with an extensive secret code base (and this code is and has been secret for a long time > 30 years) . Second, all leaked sources are "illegal" anyway (as in this source was not sanctioned, so it's worthless). ☝︎
Mocky: if shortwave repeater was in l1 confidence and one day i became l1, i wouldn't see having to keep that secret as a burden. ☟︎
Mocky: as example
Mocky: i don't see it as a problem for the client writer. to the contrary i would expect clients to get regular updates and older versions less useful relatively over time. but maybe asciilifeform doesn't care about eulora at all, why involve when only possible involvement 'suspected of leak'?
mod6: Identity as such will be condemed, indeed.
Mocky: if in the case of a confirmed leak, pointed questions could be asked even of those who never so much as looked at it. and i'm not saying answering questions is a big burden, but alternately not being suspected in the first place could be considered a benefit
Mocky: this makes sense to me. the only thing i have against it is asciilifeform and mod6 argument about the burden of keeping secrets. while I don't see the proposed method as actually burdensome, i see the argument in the general case
Mocky: asciilifeform, i dont' even see it as an issue of paying for software: the paying or not doesn't need to differ from the case where minigame writes the official client
mircea_popescu: well, there's obviously a published server protocol, as well as the old client... these don't constitute ?
asciilifeform: admittedly asciilifeform is not a eulorist, but i had a very positive picture of it as -- including other things -- a kindergarten teaching tool for 'fuck people but do biznis with keys' , 'pubkey is the soul', etc
mircea_popescu: they're all playing obamalora as it is anyway.
mircea_popescu: that's the whole fucking point. not just of writing games, but of storytelling altogether, as a whole discipline reaching all the way to the core of substance. people's enjoyment of reading say http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-16#1835256 might be ~enhanced~ by a secure mastery of the writer's craft ☝︎
mircea_popescu: and think in terms of confusable ~by whom~. as far as 50% or so of fetlife female moron population is concerned, they have "a master" or whatever in that vein.
asciilifeform: 'they cloink a coupla with the sledgehammer so as to break down the find into shards the size they can fit in a pocket, after which they stick it on their oxcart' ☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: sorta why i invoked fg as example -- recently i noticed a heathen who lifted the analogue scheme , but could not resist gluing it to the usual heathen whitener , because how could he resist.
asciilifeform: heathens are , as i currently understand, so unspeakably stupid that 'stealing fixed code' is not to date ever observed, they re-break as soon as they touch. ( any heathens stole trb for the shitfork warz, other than funkenstein ? )
mod6: I see this as even beyond the Eulora scenario, stretching out to any TMSR~ source; I just don't see a good way to solve it right now, other than being selective with who gets rights to see the $src.
mod6: and as far as the eulora client, maybe S.MG wants the source to remain closed, this is for them to decide.
asciilifeform: for some reason i thought that the thing was build specifically to be agnostic of client (i.e. so long as they speaks the published protocol, all clients work)
mod6: Well, my fear is that: Lord X encypts $src_code, to {a,b,c,d} ; as was said before, it would be impossible to tell if $src_code was leaked by X, or a,b,c or d. (This was stated earlier too).
mod6: what may happen in the future; trust between two or more people might not be the same as it is today.
mod6: When given the prospect of asking someone in L1 to hold long-term, or indefinite secrets as opposed to short-term secrets, it gets much harder to evaluate the trust or risk. One can not predict
mircea_popescu: think of it as a minigame crimping.
asciilifeform admits that he dun think of africa as a destination
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i see binaries as a cache for src . ( exactly in fact how emacs sees it. ) and thereby i have approx same interest in downloading and running bins built by ~others~ , as in stuffing food they have pre-digested somehow into my own gut, bypassing mouth
asciilifeform: ( if player can see the server, it is same as seeing all of the deck in card game )
asciilifeform: as mircea_popescu pointed out, i do same thing on numerous occasion
asciilifeform: which strikes me as , to put it subtly, batshit
asciilifeform: diana_coman: it is precisely because i do not see a public outside of l1, that i regard the idea of 'l1-only publications' as in most cases wrongheaded
diana_coman: it's true it was worded with that hook in it and I bit on it first for sure but I'm reading it more and more as "we make it public; but what public is there outside l1??"
mircea_popescu: man should be given as much length of rope to hang self with as wants.
diana_coman: asciilifeform, tbh I'm seeing it less and less as a "keep secrets" thing
mircea_popescu: as long as you have a good answer should y ask.
asciilifeform: just as 'voodoo from a distance' pre-dated the ballistic rocket etc.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as i understand they ain't ants, they are wired for 'food is to be looked for in immediate vicinity, when hungry'. think 'grasshopper', not 'ant', in aesopian terminology.
mircea_popescu: let me tell you something about the crabs, i found fascinating last i was getting a beach blowjob. so, they all move in ~same direction, as far as eye can see, thousands of them. and as you say, right, "all that is mine i carry with". now, if they happen to run into some food, they'll stop a little, have a little, MOVE ON. they make 0 attempt to ~carry the food~. or even search for it.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: possibly tangentially, have you ever been tempted to distribute eulora as a physical device ?
asciilifeform: as it currently stands, nobody can reproduce ~any bins.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: observe that so far, at least as visible from my tower, i've succeeded in this. whereas if i had distributed the whole kit in february of 2016, to kako et al, chances are that wouldn't.
asciilifeform: it is specifically ~not~ meant to be modified and used as building block by folx who aren't asciilifeform .
asciilifeform: the other pertinent distinction is that phuctor is not meant as a building block to use inside other systems. pretty much whole rationale for asciilifeform's refusal to publish whole thing, is specifically to prevent/delay such attempts at use.
mircea_popescu: this is no sort of life, incidentally. it's what the old "engineering" used to be, "construct complicated looms that are friable and hard to maintain so as to have an eat."
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as i suspect the folx who stole phuctor v.1 and v.2 src discovered, and prolly not much surprise to anybody else, phuctor is not a fully automatic mechanism. it requires asciilifeform's hands , applied on fairly regular basis, to function correctly. sorta like phf's logtron, for instance.
mircea_popescu: nevermind "shed some light". the point fucking remains, as long as secrets are kept secrets are kept, what the fuck.
trinque: and then asked ave1 for binary-reproducible gcc as the logical next step
asciilifeform: trinque: this is to be seen as ~open problem~, not 'fact of life'
mircea_popescu: situation 2, as contemplated : you release a binary, which mp like an idiot runs, and that's that. the machine no longer has cause to think alf's an idiot.
mircea_popescu: dude. situation 1, as currently : you release code, mp like an idiot compiles it on ubuntu, jnow your code exists as a drepper mockery of itself. as far as the machine can tell, you asciilifeform are an idiot.
asciilifeform: same way as questions of compensation are currently handled in l1 -- word of honour
asciilifeform: relatively compact -- and, more importantly -- short-lived -- seekrits -- are practical. e.g. i send BingoBoingo a qntra item, gpggrammed so as not to get scooped by heathens. next hour it gets published openly.
asciilifeform: i'm struggling and failing to come up with a scenario where it doesn't ultimately land you in the same hot pot of ridiculous boiling oil as usg boils in.
asciilifeform: not the same item at all as 'keep the magic coad from heathens' is it.
diana_coman: asciilifeform, as I understand it, this is first and foremost a political statement; the gains are not from "oooh, you don't know my ugly code"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a) there's no practical possibilty for collective answerable ; b) as discussed in previous thread (when you were trying to make up contest rules), it's not possible to prove the owner himself didn't leak.
mircea_popescu: the evident disadvantage is that this only works if we can rely on l1 to keep a secret ; which means things (such as, that it can't be as big, for instance). ☟︎
mircea_popescu: as we're contemplating an eulora client rewrite, i am contemplating the following code release paradigm : client author a) releases code encrypted to l1, signed and deeded (so basically, gpg -aer asciilifeform -r ave1 -r etc) ; b) releases precompiled binaries for allcomers. ☟︎☟︎☟︎
diana_coman: oh, and similar issue as above for...curl; wtf
a111: Logged on 2018-07-15 15:42 mircea_popescu: if anyone has serious issues with this better get a portage candidate up asap so it can be imported when cuntoo comes, because otherwise it's as dead as the woodchipped people.
BingoBoingo: Cooking steaks for the Peruana to celebrate the end of nationality as a thing
mod6: In other news, BingoBoingo has accepted the position as Pizarro Manager, and officially will take over in this role after the August Statement is published in the first few days of September. Congrats to BingoBoingo!
BingoBoingo: <trinque> some of this work won't have to be done completely ab initio; there are musltronic distros out there that can at least act as source material for research, alpine and void linux for example. <<As far as I can tell Alpine is a musl build of gentoo, comparatively clean. Void on the other hand is more like a tampon. Bloody inside and out
mircea_popescu: afaik they were, even as far as the 10.x series ; but this i've never put to the cuntoo test.
a111: Logged on 2018-07-12 11:18 asciilifeform: trinque's gcc, btw, is exactly as was printed on the crate, x86_64-gentoo-linux-musl 4.9.4
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform just as long as i can still use cuntoo to show cunts their cunts too!
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-15#1834771 << from ~cold~ node it backs up as well as anything else . point was that i can't think of any good reason to do it that way, nodes ( correctly-built, i.e. with aggression ) are self-replicating reasonably quickly ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-07-15 15:42 mircea_popescu: if anyone has serious issues with this better get a portage candidate up asap so it can be imported when cuntoo comes, because otherwise it's as dead as the woodchipped people.
a111: Logged on 2018-07-15 14:56 asciilifeform: and whole concept of 'backing up trb' strikes me as wrongheaded -- the most effective backup is simply a 2nd node.
trinque: some of this work won't have to be done completely ab initio; there are musltronic distros out there that can at least act as source material for research, alpine and void linux for example.
mircea_popescu: if anyone has serious issues with this better get a portage candidate up asap so it can be imported when cuntoo comes, because otherwise it's as dead as the woodchipped people. ☟︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: anyway, fwiw : mysql existing as gnat/cuntoo item (combined with its deployment in mp-wp, eulora etc) pretty much guarantees by now that tmsr db will be mysql derivative.
asciilifeform: and whole concept of 'backing up trb' strikes me as wrongheaded -- the most effective backup is simply a 2nd node. ☟︎
shinohai: Thankfully, pogo turned out to be great NAT device, I run a mech hdd in the dumb-as-bricks vertical hdd slot, and a samsung t3 portable ssd from the top usb connector.
shinohai: Pretty much same as I always reported, usually stayed several "days" behind, this did not improve until I purchased samsung ssd about a year ago.
asciilifeform: re 'screen' -- funnily enuff for many yrs asciilifeform did not use it aside from as rs232 terminal a la 'kermit'; for the absolutely fucking vital item of 'leave my bg processes alone when i disconnect', used simply 'nohup', which comes with afaik errry unix since system5
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-14#1834379 << clickbank is fiat-only, and as for the "btc affiliate programs" http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1828510 ☝︎☝︎
mircea_popescu: notice as in, you know, actually notice, "omfg i can't believe what a shithead i am, missed out on the financial bitcoin train and then on the political too, i truly am too stuipid to fucking live" and subsequently blow their brains out, as any sort of rational process absolutely dictates...
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: d00d was a noxious twit for as long as i can remember
deedbot: mircea_popescu rated elaineo 2 at 2017/09/26 04:47:52 << somehow manages to write unirritatingly while also academia. i have yet no theory as to how this is possible.
brazilish: different AS from aws, still under US control
diana_coman: I still have to go through the rest and I'll probably report as I go
asciilifeform: life is pretty hard without 'screen', i'ma look at it as soon as i have own cuntoo going
diana_coman: brazilish, nothing wrong with experimenting as long as it's done with a clear plan and then reported on
diana_coman: and as a customer of Pizarro I'd be very happy to know that BingoBoingo takes on the management role and gets it moving;also, re directions to my mind this forum here is a great place to come and ask about scary/unknown stuff *early*
mod6: And to the point of BingoBoingo, he has said before that he wants direction from a manager. As he said earlier tonight.