Adlai: TIL linden dollar exchanges are registered MSBs
BingoBoingo: Adlai: I'm working on a write up atm on those
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: dude you gotta stop your blog from opening up links in new tabs
ben_vulpes: vile fucking practice, destroying the browse history.
cazalla: question if anyone can help - is there a genuine security reason for someone to refuse to disclose how they generate entropy for the private keys contained in their physical bitcoin coin products?
PeterL: is there a way to change that behavior in your local browser?
ben_vulpes: also pete_dushenski your content div scrolls sideways
cazalla: punkman, i thought so. i ask because this is the response i got when asking someone i'm looking at doing a story on "We believe there are a number of safe ways the keys can be generated by offline PCs, but do not disclose exact method(s) chosen for obvious reasons."
PeterL: cazella: maybe they are not making good entropy and are embarrased to admit it?
ben_vulpes: cazalla: only if you're depending on DO for your noise.
jurov: sugh, this is worse than obola.. i was not aware what various email clients do to text/plain
PeterL: If it is something like "pick a certain digit of pi to start at" then it would be a security breach to expose what you are doing
jurov: base64, quoted printable, oh my
ben_vulpes: PeterL: yeah sure, custom stylesheet for contravex.com clobbering target="_blank"
ben_vulpes: but as i said, clobbering the back-button when reading hyperlinked documents is...
ben_vulpes: well you fill in that ellipses yourself.
kakobrekla: <cazalla> punkman, i thought so. i ask because this is the response i got when asking someone i'm looking at doing a story on "We believe there are a number of safe ways the keys can be generated by offline PCs, but do not disclose exact method(s) chosen for obvious reasons." < if its a bad implementation, you in fact increase attack surface even further
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes it's a bit odd that the sidescroll shows up in firefox and safari but not opera. what're you using?
cazalla: so really, it's more a question of why buy physical coins to begin with than getting to the point of asking how they generated the private keys used for the priv address inside the coin
punkman: asciilifeform: cazalla: little to gain, plenty to lose << but they could at least vaguely describe their process/tools
kakobrekla: but they could at least vaguely describe their process/tools < we call the rand() function. twice.
kakobrekla: yeah casascius is basically a scammer for not scamming
cazalla: pete_dushenski, where did the women go btw
pete_dushenski: cazalla they were lost in the hosting changeover and have yet to reappear. they may still or they may not.
punkman: I got a coin in the works btw
punkman: yeah, not sure if it will have space for sticker though
kakobrekla: funny, we have physical virtual coins, but most money is in fact virtual physical money instead.
Adlai must've had some tracking crap in his browser already
Adlai: tl;dr: "emerging payment systems (eg Bitcoin, Paypal, Square)"
kakobrekla waits for "10 years bitcoin experience required" in 2014.
bounce: 7+ year "technical leadership" in webmonkeying?
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes sidescrolling fixed on opera/ff/safari, how's it look on chromeski?
jurov: asciilifeform << our thread last night << now i wonder why nobody's reusing ascii control characters (C0)
jurov: C0 reserved for asciilifeforms?
jurov: how does a browser use them?
jurov: oh that. only if tim berners lee used them for html instead of <>"'
jurov: ^ was supposed to ACK
bounce: more elegant to invent your own pgp control script complete with glyphs and have it accepted in the unicode standard
PeterL: what control would the characters have?
jurov: instead of -----START/END OF WHATEVER------ use dedicated uncode chars
assbot: Logged on 26-10-2014 21:44:02; asciilifeform: till we have a gpg that clearsigns without escape char mutilation - we got this.
jurov: lol on their on "warning" page:
jurov: That's just basic classical economics. Scammers don't last long in the Bitcoin ecosystem.
jurov: We are MUCH safer than the other exchanges, each of which has spawned a huge list of horror stories from disgrunted customers.
jurov: they forgot to mention they are amazing
decimation: asciilifeform: is this because base64?
jurov: decimation: no, it uses dash escaping
jurov: which mutilates patches
decimation: why would anyone think it would be a good idea to escape chars below 7 bits?
decimation: like, are they going to send it on a 5-bit teletype?
cazalla: jurov, referring to kakobrekla's coinchimp image.. hey if it was good enough for people to say mailchimp was vaguely racist..
decimation: c-machine implementation of characters is enraging
decimation: I think you had that rant a few months ago on that topic
decimation: someone should make a --cccp flag that enables ☭ as the BOM/EOM char for gpg
decimation: yeah, characters are properly objects with a variety of attributes, not numbers
decimation: it does seem like unicode is a natural fit for lisp
decimation: actually it's a tacit admission that computers suck
decimation: no one has the will/ability to make better software until hardware to use it rolls around
decimation: Another reason why chars suck is the endian problem
Adlai mutters something about local readtables
decimation: you are stuck with 8 bits if you don't want to constantly guess at endianness
Adlai: what exactly are we trying to do here
Abelincoln: whats up this is abe lincoln talking from the dead yo
Adlai: asciilifeform: we = same we that are emulating drum printers, here = our efforts to go beyond drum printers
decimation: abe you were a murderous tyrant who birthed modern usg
decimation: is there going to be a 'reset' of the state of his deed 'knapsack' over time?
decimation: one would imagine that keeping the pile of all past deeds would become cumbersome
decimation: well, I was thinking about undata's problem
decimation: imagine a century from now, someone wants to verify a deed - he would need to transmit potentially millions of deed hashes
Adlai: decimation: s/deed/transaction/
Adlai is a little curious about this deed stuf
decimation: well, if the hash of the bundle is included in the bundle, how did the hash end up in the bundle?
mircea_popescu: decimation all submitted deeds during one hour go in the same bundle./
Adlai: asciilifeform: thx
decimation: okay, so each bundle has a hash, and the privkey of that bundle is the hash of the list of all past hashes
mircea_popescu: dude omg. not like he didn't say and get quoted x times.
assbot: Logged on 26-10-2014 20:32:15; punkman: deeds are sha256 hashed, hash is b58encoded, b58encoded hashes of all deeds are joined with ",", that string is sha256'd again and that's the private key
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo we probably should send them some letters too.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: All of the letters, entire doctors full of letters.
decimation: I guess it's not worth worrying about until there's an uptake in deedbot usage
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform eh i don't even agree. fuck all this subtlety of amuk idiocy. a character, its encoding, the representation thereof and its numeric value are all THE SAME THING. forever.
mircea_popescu: anyone trying to divorce any of these gets to burn in hell.
bounce: also, one case. only. ever.
bounce: typical how you're both reverting to upper case. who said that had to be the only one available?
Adlai: (setf *print-case* :downcase) ; pls
decimation: most morse operators who have to send numbers use shortened versions
decimation: how's that for symbol/number representation
bounce: no, it wouldn't. wouldn't be women either.
Adlai: if there were only one gender, "gender" the concept wouldn't exist
mircea_popescu: Adlai how come everyone's smart yet the concept of stupid exists ?
undata: innovation is happening; deploy SEC!
Adlai: the gradient of idiocy is far more nuanced, although i guess our dead president is anchoring one end of it
decimation: eh. every new bureaucrat knows that they can 'embrace and extend' new territory by trying to 'get there first'
mircea_popescu: Over at reddit.com, we rewrote the site from Lisp to Python in the past week. It was pretty much done in one weekend. << lawl.
bounce: rulemaking, the frontier
Adlai: they must have been using the algol-compatibility subset
bounce: so what were the motivation and benefits of doing that?
Adlai: it's kinda sad that going from CL to Python is a step backwards in concurrency support
decimation: if true, it's probably that their lisp was retarded
mircea_popescu: "The Lisp newsgroup, comp.lang.lisp, was upset about the switch that they’re currently planning to write a competitor to reddit in Lisp, to show how right they are or something." << never happened, of course.
Adlai: a reddit infested with c.l.l trolls would be interesting... i hope they'd bring along the markov chain idiocy spammers too
Adlai: it's the fifty-year language, it takes fifty years until the HTTP client gets implemented
undata: dumb; at least they knew to stay away from Django
Adlai didn't know, but isn't surprised
thestringpuller: undata: it's unfortunate python gets a bad wrap though, Djanga seems more stable than say node.js
mircea_popescu: anyway, that article is all about how arron s is great and wonderful.
mircea_popescu: which... whatever, when i start fucking boys i might care.
nubbins`: <asciilifeform> he can swear to his gods that he didn't make copies, but what kind of proof could possibly suffice as proof to a skeptic ? <<< probably no more than a few days of torture
undata: thestringpuller: the only way I can tolerate python is by considering it "functional" in the weak sense
jurov: kakobrekla ponder this bit of wisdom from naggum: it has been instructive to see how people suddenly grasp that a date is always read and written in ISO 8601 format although the machine actually deals with it as a large integer...
jurov: ..Unix folks who are used to seeing the number _or_ a hacked-up crufty version of `ctime' output are truly amazed by this.
decimation: it's kinda like c++ without the libraries
undata: decimation: the immutability by default thing is cool
decimation: asciilifeform: it's another symptom of the 'protect the programmer from himself' mentality
undata: I'm blessed to be among perfect programmers.
undata: as for myself, as many constraints as possible, please.
nubbins`: anyone have a link handy for deed verification process?
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla: well, its not hard to beat "hi you have incoming ddos, I understand this can be frustrating as this type of attack is usually a sign that your droplet has been compromised" <<< ahahaha wut ?
Adlai: undata: run forrest, run! break out of those crutches!
undata: Adlai: when you intend to, you simply specify something mutable
mircea_popescu: "you have been raped. i understand this can be frustrationg as this is usually a sign that you are in fact a slut."
Adlai: undata: see the object identity paper
undata: Adlai: I am already bigoted against OOP
Adlai: once upon a time, "object" meant something other than "instance of a class"
undata: Adlai: I'd rather just have my types over here, and functions over there which use them
undata: mircea_popescu: objects are just an intermediate shitbucket between global and local
Adlai: the paper has nothing to do with OOP, "object" could equally be replaced by "data"
mircea_popescu: undata as actually encountered, pretty much. asciilifeform i guess so.
bounce doesn't mind OOP. there's some good ideas in there, even if most practitioners didn't get it.
bounce: quite sure that if there wasn't OOP they'd've thought of something else to write crap code in
mircea_popescu: i guess a fairer evaluation is to say oop got the blessing of suck, the way www did.
Adlai: turns out people actually use it
decimation: oop is one of those things that sounds great on paper, but when a group of programmers try to use it they end up with unmaintainable spaghetti code
Adlai: mircea_popescu: actually not in the logs, unless anybody paid attention when i brought it up :)
mircea_popescu: Adlai i still got the impression it was discussed before. maybe im just confused, maybe assbot was down right then, dunno.
decimation: asciilifeform: I get the feeling that oop is sick at a metaphysical level
Adlai: we got stuck on how to implement a MOP for sheeple, and it hasn't seen enough use for people to miss it... but it's a rather faithful translation of MOPless CLOS
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski: ;;later tell DanielKrawisz Looking forward to seeing you rationalize this gem <<< i dunno, it's like the guy went off the deep end past coupla weeks.
bounce forgot who argued that of the four main things in OOP only encapsulation was really important, but things like (multiple) inheritance are just that much shinier
undata: oop is shitty function dispatch paired with some implicit scope stapled to your functions
Adlai: sykopomp was satoshi to my usgavin
mircea_popescu: take yer javascript an' shove it. fucking ajax things.
bounce: next you'll be saying ruby is the future
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski: this represents a 200% greater loss than last year while revenue doubled. <<< yeah, the time to short the pos approaches.
undata: python would be if not advisable, forgivible if someone ripped the classes out
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski: hmm do comments not yield trackbacks? << wut ?
undata: and added type annotations
Adlai: in ze end, ve vil al be speking german...
mircea_popescu: undata well they made their own web.py class structure, back then
undata: because people are followers and it wasn't an informed decision
undata thinks random shuffling among the things people are capable of
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah I remember rejecting perl; finding pythong as the best alternative
Adlai: the GIL is good for limiting the amount of toes you can shoot off at once
Adlai: do they teach lisp in any days, these days?
undata: man, this is the generation of programmers that thinks nosql is a great idea
decimation: asciilifeform: as in some ancient turd?
undata grumbles about a bunch of JS developers farting out things like couchdb
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> who in his right mind would consider 'apple', for instance, if microshit did not exist << i don't run a windows machine. for me ms might as well not exist. however, i did get apple powered tablet to check out their game marketplace.
mircea_popescu: don't forget that. apple isn't a tech company, it's a media company.
mircea_popescu: apple it's what yahoo has aspired at all these years. if they had any sense, they wouldn't have hired melissa no clue, they'd have hired jobs back then
Adlai: they've made some nice hardware too
Adlai: well yes, that is a valid sense of the word
Adlai: dunno, some of apple's earlier hardware was boy-nice too
Adlai likes his lenovo thinkpad
decimation: eh, chinese just build to us specs generally
Adlai: the IBM thinkpad is good too, and still running like clockwork, 12 years later
Adlai: although linux may have something to do with this
Adlai: do you actually have a lispm?
Adlai looks in the otc book
mircea_popescu: cazalla: question if anyone can help - is there a genuine security reason for someone to refuse to disclose how they generate entropy for the private keys contained in their physical bitcoin coin products? << not really, no. other than "we don't have a clue how it's done but this is sekoority and so being mysterious is the next best thing"
mircea_popescu: mats_cd03 as in, didn't understand taleb's point ? or as in what ?
assbot: Logged on 18-08-2014 16:12:29; asciilifeform: but no, somehow, 'gmo' equals what monsanto inc. does.
assbot: Logged on 12-09-2014 19:19:30; asciilifeform: except - they aren't banning monsanto garbage. they're banning 'gmo.'
undata: mats_cd03: probably going to need a biologist to get a reasonable response
assbot: Logged on 26-09-2014 23:50:40; asciilifeform: ;;sell 1 "Symbolics 3620 Lisp Machine. Photos:
http://www.loper-os.org/?p=51" at 3 btc must pick up in Washington, D.C. area, this item cannot be shipped economically.
undata: who fucking knows; it's like anything with humans. we'll do it, I know that for sure.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform tbh i always wondered about the "shipping economically" part. surely 100lbs worth of various things have been shipped before, even in the us ?
undata: it's like Elon Musk recently with AI. He's been calling that "potentially more dangerous than nukes"
undata: maybe so, but if it can happen, it will happen
decimation: in the us, with that weight class, one must deal with 'freight operators'
Adlai: asciilifeform: still for sale for 3btc?
Adlai: (it's not in the b-otc order book anymore)
kakobrekla: just curious, not worthy of bothering the man.
decimation: surely symbolics shipped these when they were new
decimation: well, that's a good point, electrolytics and everything like that
mircea_popescu: people can reconstruct tits and virginity. you telling me they can't remake a board edge ?
Duffer1: asciilifeform it would have to be packed and handled like a ming vase >> bonded courier
mircea_popescu: Duffer1 he has a point tho, museums routinely pay exorbitant fees to move their fragile shoit around.
Duffer1: no doubt, sorry i've only followed a few lines of the convo :P
mircea_popescu: undertand, shipping is a solved problem. it just costs money, but it's not the case that consumer mail is all there is.
BingoBoingo: For a sufficiently exorbitant price I may be willing to serve as courier within CONUS.
decimation: sats encountered more shock on the road
kakobrekla: hm, some berkshire bettors must be sweating.
mircea_popescu: punkman: asciilifeform: cazalla: little to gain, plenty to lose << but they could at least vaguely describe their process/tools << asciilifeform yes, nobody requires them to send sample units. something like "we're buying atmospheric noise off random.org folks" or "sixty free cs servers, and we suck the urand pool dry" or w/e.
mircea_popescu: im just here eating cookies and giving him a hard time.
mircea_popescu: this is beneficial tho, i had some good lolz reading the support tickets earlier in logs
nubbins`: punkman, a code snippet from your deed processing routine plz?
decimation: yeah most pendulum clocks didn't do well in a swaying ship
assbot: Logged on 28-10-2014 02:16:07; mircea_popescu: "you have been raped. i understand this can be frustrationg as this is usually a sign that you are in fact a slut."
decimation: asciilifeform: I bet you had alot of sympathy for harrison
TheNewDeal: nubbins` was asking for a deed snippet
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo if only he could be teamed up with templeos guy.
nubbins`: TheNewDeal i'm just trying to verify one of these things but it's hard if i don't know the process
mircea_popescu: nubbins` you know it was listed like 5 times in da log ? most recently an hour ago ?
TheNewDeal: I feel ya, I would like to learn as well. Seems like an incredibly useful tool
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: At least TempleOS is fun in a retro way. Future archaologist may imagine it was actually widely used by a large sect
nubbins`: mircea_popescu yeah and there's something more to it than that, because instructions as given don't work
assbot: Logged on 26-10-2014 20:32:15; punkman: deeds are sha256 hashed, hash is b58encoded, b58encoded hashes of all deeds are joined with ",", that string is sha256'd again and that's the private key
mircea_popescu: "don't work" is the best error message, after... anything else.
nubbins`: following the instructions as provided does not result in the same private key
nubbins`: how else would it not work? :S
mircea_popescu: so we can verify you did in fact follow the instruction rather than honestly think you did.
nubbins`: first, sha256sum: fb53b9449532fbca07a611572ae4424932e36c7ce492785a9a028bb019cb78a0
nubbins`: in base58: Hv5NuwL5sSvAvWQWSQGDehN5ysrfPvxoVdosrWfk3kAB
gernika: mircea_popescu: Can you recommend a good neighborhood for a short stay in Buenos Aires?
nubbins`: sha256sum again: 049aebffb61c7f2497a11a1d70bf2756ceb0d1b259823bf1e9b70ff617911325
nubbins`: base58 again: JyeP2YHXHzHr8HtyAf2cq5bLRMwuKH5hCWBYoPdqrfe
mircea_popescu: gernika if you like to hang out with expats/foreign kids the palermos and perhaps ricoletta.
gernika: mircea_popescu ok. had been looking at palermo.
mircea_popescu: nubbins`'s host kicked him off the internets because he has been posting base58 strings to irc.
mircea_popescu: 1st shasum ik get 1d834ceaf8b81bd9f53dec3f4befd06f65ee422248f2c2edaf55e825bd2228c0 in any case.
mircea_popescu: so the more likely hypo is "osx fucks up characters yo!"
nubbins`: so for a single deed, trailing comma or no?
mircea_popescu: i think always trailing comma, but anyway, your 1st sha is off ?
mircea_popescu: i guess best practice, "1st check deed signature, then hash to verify deed".
nubbins`: er yeah, i don't get the same shasum as you at all
mircea_popescu: nubbins` see how much better life is here in the paradise of proper error messages ?
nubbins`: reading it from a file here produces a different hash
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: punkman: they could at least vaguely describe their process/tools << and you'll believe? << for the record, description is not strictly a belief-driven phenomenon. consider at its most basic, schooling. teacher describes to you grammar. do you believe ? no, if you're in any way sane, not right off. but eventually what was a hypothesis gets tested out.
mircea_popescu: the wot, incidentally, works on exactly the same premise. one can make any declaration one wishes. it's not believed per se, but that's irrelevant. as time goes by confirmation either mouts or does not.
mircea_popescu: i don't see how a case can be different from any other in a system where "one can make any declaration"
mircea_popescu: the way to know how long your cock is is to ask god, because obviously measurement will yield an error.
mircea_popescu: not so. this is like saying "the only way to identify boys from girls is as you're moaning".
mircea_popescu: you can at the very least obtain the "most likely to fuckceed" information on a set of identifiable, different providers.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, it occurs to me that while some start-ups succeed, a vast majority suckceed.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is much weaker than your original statement tho
mircea_popescu: and this is a cognate of "there's no point getting in the wot, i have real world friends"
mircea_popescu: similarly of, "i have no interest signing other people's code"
mircea_popescu: which, incidentally, ima make a post about, cause this is starting to coallesce in my head.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: "there's no point getting in the wot, i have real world friends" << WoT isn't Facebook...*sigh*
mod6: i actually had a leagal drink for the billinium
thestringpuller: mod6: i actually had a leagal drink for the billinium <<< i was just growing pubes. now I don't feel quite so old.
mircea_popescu: i had my first legal drink in... 1990 ? something like that.
mod6: so the day after the 'billennium', Sept. 9th 2001, I think that was the day that rummy was like "Oops, we somehow misplaced 1tn."
mod6: yeah. i was like "holy shit! is this guy kidding?! how do you do that?!"
thestringpuller: Didn't a shipping container with 100 billion or so get lost in Iraq in the early 2000's as well?
undata: in the movie, the CIA stole it and started ISIS with it
nubbins`: okay, i just wasn't stripping newline from eof
nubbins`: so 1st shasum: 1d834ceaf8b81bd9f53dec3f4befd06f65ee422248f2c2edaf55e825bd2228c0
nubbins`: to base58: 2zCwsSPNidLE9aEBTx4bh6Vrv7XrmJa9fAw8o8S8wrCX
nubbins`: second shasum: 581beb0a0aec036351e239da11595fe67c1cf5dc817019716999f2040b96e84f
mod6: ok, actually, it was 2.3tn
nubbins`: mircea_popescu according to deeds.bitcoin-assets.com i'm supposed to end up with the brainwallet passphrase "BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ"
mod6: i remember watching it on tv
nubbins`: but i don't know how to get from the second shasum to that
mod6: they probably 1984'd it
nubbins`: TheNewDeal sha > base58 > sha > ???
nubbins`: > brainwallet passphrase > private key
assbot: Logged on 26-10-2014 20:32:15; punkman: deeds are sha256 hashed, hash is b58encoded, b58encoded hashes of all deeds are joined with ",", that string is sha256'd again and that's the private key
nubbins`: doing an additional base58 doesn't produce BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ
nubbins`: 2nd sha is not the privkey afaict
nubbins`: privkey is 5HsNWxt5bbBiSvVWbtXMBcoQTzfXgqyPEmDWcAymXdu1o9edra3
nubbins`: because that's the private key generated from brainwallet passphrase BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ
nubbins`: you put BXZ... into passphrase box
nubbins`: since 149LB... is the public address indicated on the deed
mircea_popescu: you mean to tell me you reverse-engineered the privkey on the basis of the address ?
nubbins`: no, i mean to tell you i put the deed ID into brainwallet.org and it spit out the associated public address
nubbins`: if the deed ID is not a brainwallet passphrase, the laws of probability have broken down
nubbins`: you entering BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ into "passphrase" textbox?
mircea_popescu: 3ab7aea90551ed0bebc37b66dae9ff9f89e60e15d9cc85ab76c922322a88b033 5JG9SZLueh5AcJEvMeZrNT3oHEd27hhUrFydq4EVVWC2RoXFc3S
mircea_popescu: 1D37yABoLo7Ma4LeR6jW8ZhJxLXdQmsbsH if i select compressed.
nubbins`: if you enter kLuzx7GDPg8uXRawaZG9ndU7hfTd8CBHSTCCffSdzLA ?
mircea_popescu: 19xKa5GkCBFM9XnEcHp1mjoiXi7x7oXKzn / 1G7XajvC1SChrQqBzVG7mDMkAaiT1jWU4G
dub: i agree with nubbins`
nubbins`: try passphrases kLuzx7GDPg8uXRawaZG9ndU7hfTd8CBHSTCCffSdzLA and BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ
Duffer1: 1P2vYukzmiGp5B7otkDakvubVFmkiv7b3y
mike_c: 13VBRJStiTVkJYUrvAdCvFdvFhVecRkb1e / 149LB8VYaT1BdMLyQUL92Kj6KrJfNwcp64
nubbins`: kLuzx7GDPg8uXRawaZG9ndU7hfTd8CBHSTCCffSdzLA as passphrase produces 13VBRJStiTVkJYUrvAdCvFdvFhVecRkb1e
BingoBoingo: I thought brainwallet was known to be retarded for some time
mike_c: mircea_popescu: whitespace matters
Duffer1: 13VBRJStiTVkJYUrvAdCvFdvFhVecRkb1e / 149LB8VYaT1BdMLyQUL92Kj6KrJfNwcp64
mike_c: in the passphrase.. if you have any
nubbins`: mircea_popescu i verified w/ a brainwallet generator i wrote myself
nubbins`: i have no idea what your cpu is smoking
mircea_popescu: <nubbins`> i have no idea what your cpu is smoking26d8fca64af52e7712a8ed89e8fd34ce9b22ee5e2b1800776cbb1434c200825d -
mircea_popescu: it can't be the case it can hash here but not there, my cpu
nubbins`: <nubbins`> i have no idea what your cpu is smoking26d8fca64af52e7712a8ed89e8fd34ce9b22ee5e2b1800776cbb1434c200825d -
dub: someone swapped your CPU for a potato
mike_c: this has gotta be a JS thing.
nubbins`: just put a single "1" in the passphrase
mike_c: 12AKRNHpFhDSBDD9rSn74VAzZSL3774PxQ
nubbins`: 12AKRNHpFhDSBDD9rSn74VAzZSL3774PxQ
dub: 12AKRNHpFhDSBDD9rSn74VAzZSL3774PxQ
nubbins`: protip: "secret exponent" = sha256sum
mircea_popescu: 5a692302f4231563cfeedaec090567e2477cebfa67d27d016a017bcd64c01911 5JW712UGBYBxp3UGNSzcQBGnPdpAsQMRKcczWJP8SJ65hiHV5WU
nubbins`: if your secret exponent is not 6b86b273ff34fce19d6b804eff5a3f5747ada4eaa22f1d49c01e52ddb7875b4b then something is borked
nubbins`: well i guess your week just got interesting
mircea_popescu: i guess it helps that i just wasn't using braindamage.org anyway
nubbins`: anyway. does anyone know how the fuck deeds generates these brainwallet passphrases? :D
nubbins`: seems like punkbot is the iq tes
nubbins`: 50 satoshi says it's generating random addresses
mircea_popescu: TheNewDeal it's the dump of js as loaded on my system, because somehow it doesn't come to the same results as other people here.
nubbins`: mircea_popescu fwiw the function calc_hash() in your pasted JS is the one doing the lifting
nubbins`: var hash = Crypto.SHA256($('#pass').val(), { asBytes: true });
nubbins`: $('#hash').val(Crypto.util.bytesToHex(hash));
nubbins`: you may be interested to paste a passphrase and in your JS console, type $('#pass').val()
nubbins`: no chrome install either, i suppose?
nubbins`: well i guess you just can't trust random web pages to generate your brainwallets ;D
mircea_popescu: HOWEVER! it would seem to me this arrangement i got is actually stronger than youze
mircea_popescu: because if i were to use it, and you did get my pw... you still couldn't steal my monyz ?
nubbins`: certainly prevents dem fundz from being stole
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the frist time this happened, 5 inch drives, 11yo or so me & friends
mircea_popescu: we took the unit on a sneakernet see what happens at everyone's house
nubbins`: ;;later tell punkman plz to provide complete pseudocode for deeds
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there actually existed special allignment disks
decimation: asciilifeform: they were gonna launch a rocket tonight, visible from your house
punkbot: nubbins`: No valid deeds found, try again.
nubbins`: so much for testing simple case
decimation: wallops island, one of the orbital rockets
decimation: interestingly, it uses "AJ-26" engines, which were 'commercially purchased' by usg from... the soviet moon program
decimation: turns out they were sitting surplus in ukraine for 30 years
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell pete_dushenski lol negatron brogrammer
decimation: now the grassfuckers in charge buy them and call it 'commercial technology'
decimation: we need to move off irc and onto a radio net
decimation: yeah there was a boat in the 'no-boat' box
decimation: i'm sure it will be very bright and visible if it is a clear night
mircea_popescu: decimation are you going to fly any pilot drones around it ?
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> it's as if we were still using teletype << funny story, biz partner bought hisself some gps chips
ben_vulpes: had loads of fun discovering the parts of the unix stack responsible for baud rate etc
decimation: I bought a chip that puts out 1pps to discipline my ovenized quartz oscillator
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> in my studies, i'm particularly interested in the 'suck' that no one even notices any more. << so relevant
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla: funny, we have physical virtual coins, but most money is in fact virtual physical money instead. << it's all a function of the small amounts of quantity involved.
decimation: asciilifeform: it is used in golden toilet projects
ben_vulpes: <Abelincoln> << that this is not <Abelincoin> should have been enough to prevent !ups
decimation: ah I thought you meant synchronous with the clock line
mircea_popescu: jurov: instead of -----START/END OF WHATEVER------ use dedicated uncode chars <<< ftr i hate this idea.
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> (summary. aliens come, they have males, females, and ooloi. the latter run things and are really the only sentients. humans quickly discover that fucking in 3some with ooloi 'adapter' is the only really fun thing.) << gripping hand?
decimation: asciilifeform: you know what the 'third' charcter was used for?
mircea_popescu: in point of fact, fucking in 3some with me there IS the only really fun thing
decimation: delimiting blocks of data I should say
Duffer1: asciilifeform xenogenesis trilogy?
ben_vulpes: <undata> dumb; at least they knew to stay away from Django << so much to this
ben_vulpes: <thestringpuller> undata: it's unfortunate python gets a bad wrap though, Djanga seems more stable than say node.js << RECANT
decimation: I've tried using some of those python 'frameworks'
decimation: there's something about trying to make one library to rule them all that attracts a certain kind of busybody
decimation: asciilifeform: you are implying you can encode the entire alphabet evenly
mircea_popescu: <decimation> there's something about trying to make one library to rule them all that attracts a certain kind of busybody << word. this is EXACTLY the dynamic involved.
mircea_popescu: psychologically immature fucktards trying to protect themselves from their own insecurity with the world at large.
mircea_popescu: BUT at least back when they were making django they weren't making systemd
ben_vulpes: * asciilifeform knows of only one non-retarded object system, CLOS
decimation: asciilifeform: on a teletype it's easy to send ternary, just add another symbol
decimation: traditionally they were 2-tone fsk, add another tone
mircea_popescu: nubsy quits too much. why are canadians such quitters ?
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> major bender or something. << unlike our regular minor benders
mircea_popescu: decimation: why would anyone think it would be a good idea to escape chars below 7 bits? << gpg escapes the dash because it uses a dash-cvomposite as a special char.
ben_vulpes: cvomposite - is that a cvasi composite?!
decimation: need to send 7-bit ascii to denote limit
decimation: still, there are plenty of control characters they could have used
ben_vulpes: <Adlai> the GIL is good << aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
decimation: here's 32 control characters that you can't use.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what'd you have them do, replace it with Q ?
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> yes, still for sale << fucking rob him already
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it occurs to me... since it can only be picked up in person, you should trade it for sex.
decimation: so I guess the alternative is to base64 encode the patches?
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> recoleta* << and where for the fleeing usian pauper?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform better idea : base-x encode, x = version number.
decimation: if we want to be backwards compatible, might as well go back to 1920's era teletype machines
ben_vulpes: did anyone get in touch with bluematt?
gribble: Error: "gpginfo" is not a valid command.
decimation: ben_vulpes: is the latest patch still yours? I haven't seen mention of others
ben_vulpes: decimation: calling that a patch is charitable - more an excision
ben_vulpes: and i've no idea if it's the most recent - there's no patch tracking tooling in place
decimation: no worries. I find the stripped-down distribution much easier to study
ben_vulpes: i'm studying the regtest phenomena of 0.8.whatever
ben_vulpes: it's glued in with the glass of the chainparams class
ben_vulpes: now not only must i study testnet but also this regtest thing
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu would have that by the act of complaining i bring down more cpp upon my own back
ben_vulpes: if you dig into chainparams and main.cpp (iirc) you'll find such joys as the "stop generating a chain after 1 block is found so that...reasons"
ben_vulpes: the thing isn't actually all that impossible to reason about
decimation: so is 0.5.3 incompatible with the existing testnet?
ben_vulpes: just - find all the places in which there's a testnet mention and try to figure out how to implement an off-network chain
ben_vulpes: obviously the answer is a class with state safely segregated within it
ben_vulpes: decimation: have not yet tested, do not think that is the case.
mircea_popescu: <ben_vulpes> my rage is indescribeable <<< i have an intuition.
mircea_popescu: "Feces are almost entirely deceased gut bacteria and water. I massacred my gut bacteria the day before by consuming a DIY Soylent version with no fiber and taking 500mg of Rifaximin, an antibiotic with poor bioavailability, meaning it stays in your gut and kills bacteria. Soylent’s microbiome consultant advised that this is a terrible idea so I do not recommend it. However, it worked. Throughout the challenge I did n
mircea_popescu: im not entirely sure why this sort of idiot is being maintained on artificial life support.
mircea_popescu: usg, you whore of bezzleatron, you got some 'splainin to do.
mircea_popescu: "In lieu of showering I sprayed myself with AOBiome’s custom skin bacteria blend. Body odor is caused by the emissions of proliferating skin bacteria, as unique as a fingerprint. The Nitrosomonas eutropha taking over my skin now metabolizes ammonia into odorless nitrite and nitric oxide. Success!"
thestringpuller: Jesus these idiots who don't know how to feed themselves are starting to just baffle me.
hanbot: i don't mind idiots experimenting on themselves, but the access to podium has gotta go.
assbot: Logged on 10-09-2014 00:36:11; asciilifeform: kakobrekla: used own replica of old soviet mask, anode on eyelids, cathode on occiput
undata: mircea_popescu: germs are dirty; obviously he's as clean as possible
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: writing about it - another matter << reminds of the people who take lots of psychedelic drugs and put the doses, timeline, and effects in a journal.
mircea_popescu: as stupid as possible, granted. once that is granted, nothing else can further be achieved. he can't be anything "as much as possible" hence.
undata is waiting for the inevitable early deaths of the soylent believers
mircea_popescu: eh, the curse of technology. nobody fucking dies for being stupid anymore.
BingoBoingo: Dude's colon is going to have more yeast than a brewery
undata: vice looked into their "factory" and found rats and mold
undata: asciilifeform: yeah, causes you to be drunk, right?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Every now and then someone's digestive system has alcohol producing yeast become the dominant microflora
mircea_popescu comes from cattle country, is proud carrier of long-selected lactoguys
undata: asciilifeform: ha, the gut beer? *shudder*
undata: I question anyone without an aversion to shit
undata: asciilifeform: almost certainly
undata: reminds me of my twin sisters in diapers, cribs opposite each other in their room
undata: I come home from school and they've had a shit war, hurled it at each other
BingoBoingo: rifampicin seems like an exceedingly poor choice for a colonocaust
undata: I learned something about life that day.
BingoBoingo: Traditional used against C.Diff is normally Vancomycin
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i don't suspect the guy actually acts rationally.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: That was given when he decided to sacrifice taking healthy shits for "water" conservation.
assbot: Logged on 18-06-2014 00:35:11; Mats_cd03: after 1 no pill a day for 4 days during a field exercise, i was literally full of shit
BingoBoingo: The classes of bacteria intrisically unaffected by rifampicin includes many unpleasant members. It seems the biggest class though is enterobacteria... so named because they are often normal intestinal flora...
pete_dushenski: "Arthur Levitt, the longest-serving chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission, is joining the advisory boards of two bitcoin-focused companies. As an adviser to Atlanta-based BitPay, a bitcoin payment processor, and Vaurum, a Palo Alto-based bitcoin exchange for institutional investors..."
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell hanbot I submitted an answer to your comment que
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they didn't start as one. but anyway, either their cash runs out in a few months or it does not.
mircea_popescu: if it does not, the explanation available is exactly one.
mircea_popescu: not like atlanta is crawling with rich, entrepreneurial-minded folks or anything.
mircea_popescu: Actually, what you really need is a platform that’s a community of communities. Ideally with cleverly designed software that can handle each community’s individual epistemology (something like Moldbug’s idea of ‘factional reputation’
mircea_popescu: i think the one thing i can stand least about usians is not directly their ignorance, but their bald faced, undisturbedly firm conviction that being a clueless git is a-okay.
mircea_popescu: "what do you mean the world didn't start a day before i was born ?!?!!?!?!?!"
BingoBoingo: sha256 of my guess on which trilema url hanbot wrote about 86e9f3b06d8abfde4f1323725907a4c9ccb6017d7ec35250f63ba735b6edbd08
BingoBoingo: md4 for people with things to do, 1ca610d4844aed110d163cdc14b987fc
mircea_popescu: 86e9f3b06d8abfde4f1323725907a4c9ccb6017d7ec35250f63ba735b6edbd08
mircea_popescu: punkman see your pms, apparently ppl can't go from deeds to privkey ?
punkman: bundle: BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ
punkman: sha256 of bundle: 07014e56d4c34fb7962db64e2cdf5ebcd3f8eca891a0ea697cc5f46f55d1da9d
punkman: 149LB8VYaT1BdMLyQUL92Kj6KrJfNwcp64
mircea_popescu: punkman incidentally, why is "brainwallet" shoehorned in there ?
punkman: I dont use brainwallet, just trying to generate with diff tools
mircea_popescu: how did you get 07014e56d4c34fb7962db64e2cdf5ebcd3f8eca891a0ea697cc5f46f55d1da9d ? sha of the raw deed + a comma ?
punkman: no comma if single deed in bundle
punkman: just sha256 the BXZ... string
punkman: errm dunno actually, does sha256sum add checksums?
assbot: Logged on 28-10-2014 03:08:02; mircea_popescu: 1st shasum ik get 1d834ceaf8b81bd9f53dec3f4befd06f65ee422248f2c2edaf55e825bd2228c0 in any case.
punkman: echo -n BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ | sha256sum == 07014e56d4c34fb7962db64e2cdf5ebcd3f8eca891a0ea697cc5f46f55d1da9d
punkman: that is a deed hash, the "lite" bundle is all the deed hashes
punkman: if you base58decode the deed hash, you get a sha256 hash of raw deed
assbot: 0 results for 'from:adlai the GIL is good' - #bitcoin-assets search
adlai: no wonder i hate getting any sleep
cazalla: pete_dushenski, thestringpuller is on it
punkman: decimation: is there going to be a 'reset' of the state of his deed 'knapsack' over time? <- it happened a couple times during testing, hopefuly the lords will provide adequate space in the future.
Naphex: i'm gonna start banning accunetix scans soon. its incredible how many "security researches" and hax0rs just try and run it all day
Naphex: and that damn PoS just gets stuck in the proxy's and downloading 5MB/s of data/s
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: listen, if smart people don't fuck whores, the poor girls are left with a very poor impression of maledom << was reminded of this as i watched the sopranos today.
punkman: so quartz tube doesn't burn?
punkman: reminds of getting people to try burning full water bottle with lighter
xiando: those are syntetic diamonds so it's not quite the same as with real. diamonds are big scam (what is debears corporation?) so go with those syntetic anyway if you want to waste money on that garbage
BingoBoingo: Diamond is diamond. Basically just incredibly high quality coal anyway.
pete_dushenski: faster loading too! at the cost of mike_c's bitbet plug-in, however
pete_dushenski: not that it was doing much tucked below the footer of 2k+ word articles.
pete_dushenski: though i quite liked the look and functionality of the plugin. alas.
pete_dushenski: the ladies will be back on the header one day. one day!
undata: ^ thoughts, criticism?
punkman: undata: looks decent at a glance
punkman: do you have a specific use-case in mind?
undata: maybe an air-gapped wallet on raspberry pi
undata: dunno, just saw it on hacker news
RagnarDanneskjol: ''Our generator makes random streams of bytes - they're generated by random quantum processes and/or thermal noise - they're don't however present a perfectly randomly distributed bit stream''
RagnarDanneskjol: seems a not so random source - I'd guess its thermal noise is within a relatively narrow range
adlai: "dumb"? doesn't this just mean you can treat it as providing less entropy than the number of bits it spits out?
Naphex: CheckDavid: get a server to do that soon?
CheckDavid: Naphex: ah I see. Must be automated right?
CheckDavid: There's not enough entropy in the regular sensors of a computer?
Naphex: CheckDavid: depends on how much you use
Naphex: for any decent cryptography work you'd need more then 200bytes available at any time
Naphex: so if you're running openssl it shouldn't go down below 200 bytes of available entropy
CheckDavid: I'm not sure how that entropy is cached or generated.
Naphex: on linux kernels you have the value exported through procfs /proc/sys/kernel/random/entropy_avail
Naphex: which gives you the amount of available entropy bytes
Naphex: revo ~ # cat /proc/sys/kernel/random/entropy_avail
Naphex: if you're doing cryptography work (ssl, keys using randoms) and this value is below 200. you have a problem to fix, fast.
Naphex: this is how entropy use from /dev/random looks like on a SSL gateway (reasonable amount of connections/handshakes)
Naphex: CheckDavid: you get more entropy from a generator
CheckDavid: I see. All I know is I use is.random to generate my random stuffs
Naphex: CheckDavid: well good luck with that :)
Naphex: hopefully your os.random is secure :))
Naphex: well what does your os.random() return?:P
Naphex: is that python os.random?:)
Naphex: if it is you should read the docs :)
Naphex: Almost all module functions depend on the basic function random(), which generates a random float uniformly in the semi-open range [0.0, 1.0). Python uses the Mersenne Twister as the core generator. It produces 53-bit precision floats and has a period of 2**19937-1. The underlying implementation in C is both fast and threadsafe. The Mersenne Twister is one of the most extensively tested random number generators in existence. However, being comple
Naphex: deterministic, it is not suitable for all purposes, and _and is completely unsuitable for cryptographic purposes._
Naphex: the last one beeing the doozy. "and is completely unsuitable for cryptographic purposes."
Naphex: so thats that, no need to be in security :)
assbot: Logged on 28-10-2014 06:51:56; punkman: if you base58decode the deed hash, you get a sha256 hash of raw deed
nubbins`: genesis.deed shasum: 1d834ceaf8b81bd9f53dec3f4befd06f65ee422248f2c2edaf55e825bd2228c0
nubbins`: converted to b58: 2zCwsSPNidLE9aEBTx4bh6Vrv7XrmJa9fAw8o8S8wrCX
nubbins`: != BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ
punkman1: nubbins`: sha256 of raw genesis deed is 9c68d5c322a3f4212112c5eb1a68dffdb49d105c34256bf219581da524c90522
nubbins`: according to that, and to my system, mp's, etc, it's 1d834ceaf8b81bd9f53dec3f4befd06f65ee422248f2c2edaf55e825bd2228c0
punkman1: try decoding the base64 encoded deed and hashing that
punkman1: (unless that's what you did, then fuck me I gotta go check things)
punkman1: yeah all the copy pasting, messes with line endings
nubbins`: heading to work now, you may wanna check your code against these tools to verify everything
cazalla: BingoBoingo, danielpbarron, you can unfollow my ugandan alter-ego, i have my own twitter now, figured might help with qntra'ing
punkman1: ;;later tell nubbins` according to that, and to my system, mp's, etc, it's 1d834ceaf8b81bd9f53dec3f4befd06f65ee422248f2c2edaf55e825bd2228c0 << that's because the CRLF line endings in the raw deed got converted to LF at some point in your process
punkman1: (whatever it finds in the deed pastebin, genesis deed had CRLF, others might not)
assbot: Logged on 26-10-2014 21:44:02; asciilifeform: till we have a gpg that clearsigns without escape char mutilation - we got this.
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: if bluematt (who was he?) doesn't appear - one of us must do the deed ? << i have jenkins running with the blob locally, i'd just rather stand on bluematt's shoulders
ben_vulpes: i'd be thrilled to see what scripts etc he wrote and how he went about the en-test-harness-ifying of the thing
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell adlai just trolling. although concurrency...python...2015...
ben_vulpes: i doubt anyone cares for further derpage on the topic from me.
ben_vulpes: although i have a hard time imaginging which customers of a bezzletron service would touch btc. buying a loss for the taxbooks doesn't make much sense with the blackcash.
assbot: "we show that if an adversary is able to review this cryptosystem, a simulator can be constructed which solves the halting problem"-ethereum
ben_vulpes: pub 4096R/43E08E54 2011-03-06 [revoked: 2014-07-12]
assbot: Logged on 26-10-2014 21:44:02; asciilifeform: till we have a gpg that clearsigns without escape char mutilation - we got this.
ben_vulpes: "PLEASE EMAIL ME IN CLEARTEXT KTHXBAI"
jurov: whoohoo: 'empty space' characters can be added to each line of cleartext, until the end of the line, without affecting the verification.
jurov: that's prolly why dash escaped stuff is designed to survive the email
danielpbarron: the '2' and '5' are swapped (in their dice logo) // such random!
punkman: pretty sure it's the first one
punkman: everyone can make hardware! arduinos!
punkman: "looks decent at a glance"
bounce: that thing is usb, meaning it gets fed 5V. what then with the boosting from 3V?
bounce: sure. but the question remains, why have a booster at all? can't you run the thing off 5V directly?
bounce: so you're stuck with a booster no matter what then.
bounce: probably a lot of "make it work" thoughts, not so much about "make it robust against adversaries"
ben_vulpes: jurov: why bother checking body? instead maybe just check .patch.sig for l2 sig, and compare that to the file.
jurov: i'm just exporing the possibilities
jurov: right now im trying to diddle with mpex a bit
jurov: normally it does not accept same command twice
jurov: i mena same clearsigned turd
jurov: but add aspace to clearsigned cmd, and it goes
jurov: no need to clearsign again
punkman: does that also work with GPG comments?
punkman: so you can replay signed commands?
jurov: --not-dash-escaped helps with the spaces
jurov: but comments are tbd, thx for suggestion
jurov: asciilifeform: mircea wanted to add them
jurov: but it goes against means of "offline" delivery where you aren't certain stuff went through
punkman: you can encrypt commands to mpex key right?
jurov: i explained it better under the trilema article where he announced it
punkman: I wonder if there are any unencrypted commands in some pastebin somewhere
jurov: i thought only encrypted stuff can be submitted to mpex?!
jurov: clearsigned first. obv now is clear that one must not ever leak
ben_vulpes: yes, encrypted because clearsigned as well.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i do believe that someone in the wot must read patches, yes.
ben_vulpes: bluematt appears to have revoked his wot ket.
jurov: at least in case of statjson mpex accepts the same ecrypted blob twice. so the point is moot.
jurov: imo we can apply the same process as for patches. someone in da wot makes release, ppl sign
jurov: ppl will select themselves for this task
mats_cd03: kakobrekla: links on log1.b-a direct to log.b-a, which is down
Naphex: "Pope Francis declares evolution and Big Bang theory are right and God isn't 'a magician with a magic wand'"
mats_cd03: if hes not a magician what is he? inquiring minds wish to know
punkman: ben_vulpes: down for maintenance
punkman: apparently I got to resend transactions manually if network fails
punkman: maybe some recommendations for easier wallet?
Naphex: what do you need a wallet for?
punkman: Naphex, bot sends transactions to notarize gpg-signed messages
Naphex: so why do you need a wallet?
Naphex: well just sign the transactions and send em to a stable node
punkman: that's what electrum is doing
Naphex: you can use my node if you want to propagate or push
Naphex: i usually mantain around ~400 connections
ben_vulpes: hey punkman how should deedbot be fed multiply-signed documents?
punkman: ben_vulpes: do they look any different?
punkman: but maybe good idea to test what happens in gnupg library
ben_vulpes: what i'd prefer is a text blob and detached signatures.
ben_vulpes: but that's not what you've got implemented.
ben_vulpes: some derpy shit i've seen: recursive signing of documents. one party signs doc, another party signs clearsigned doc.
punkman: it will take unencrypted but compressed messages
punkman: --sign instead of --clearsign
punkman: also for reference, multisig msg with: gpg --clearsign -u derp -u herp
punkman: apparently not possible unless you have all the keys
TomServo: asciilifeform: This is only for wireless clients correct? Though, why wouldn't they also do the same to wired customers?
TomServo: Seems the article only mentions phones and wireless.. unless I'm missing it.
TomServo: asciilifeform: *sings* What a wonderful woooorld...
mircea_popescu: mod6 ben_vulpes "This charter establishes the existence of a virtual organization whose mission is to maintain the Bitcoin reference client." <<< maybe strike client from there ?
punkman: reference implementation perhaps
mod6: i think it did say that at one point. i don't have my previous revisions handy atm.
mod6: 'reference implementation'
punkman: ok, so I think current deedbot implementation would only look at the last signature in multisig message. How should it work ideally?
mod6: it looks at both and enters in a row for each?
mod6: ok gotta run for a bit, will be back later to continue the work on getting this thing finished.
punkman: ok, so last guy to sign must be in assbot wot
punkman: maybe I'll make it display the additional signatures somehow
mod6: <+punkman> ok, so last guy to sign must be in assbot wot << just put this in the wiki then so we'll know
mircea_popescu: and how do you deal with the case where string1+siga+string2+sigb ?
mircea_popescu: ("I like melons"signed:MP"He means lemons")signed:Freud
punkman: so both electrum and supybot crapped out in slightly weird way today, I'll try to get it back up by tomorrow
punkman: 1 day and 18 hours for the first run
undata: asciilifeform: have you documented your rng?
mircea_popescu: undata plus he's on the hook to document it once it actually gets made.
punkman: asciilifeform: maybe someone will come up with through-hole component version?
undata: asciilifeform: great! we await your teachings.
jurov: punkman do it with 99% fine zamak cover bearing "First Edition" label
punkman: was partlist published in reports?
mircea_popescu: partlist, quality of results summary, all sorts of things.
assbot: Logged on 28-10-2014 12:47:11; asciilifeform: undata: onerng.info << best lulz! this calls for a mini-review.
mircea_popescu: shit listen, i'm not yet done with the day's log, gotta read it in order or else errors.
punkman: oh thought you were signing rm utility, never mind
mircea_popescu: bitcoin finally reached in 2014 the place where it would have been in 2009 had satoshi been able to find and motivate people rather than find himself desperately shooting into the public forum.
mircea_popescu: a better example of the problem of resource allocation can never be devised.
mircea_popescu: five fucking years and a horde of jackals, all because there isn't nor apparently can there be a god out there to whom you pray and who gives orders adequately.
mircea_popescu: anyway, a better demolition of the myth of "open source" and wikidiotarianism could also hardly be devised
bounce: apparently there wasn't a people person around who could find and organise the people to cook up bitcoin; needed a lone engineer to lay the ground work.
mircea_popescu: i think it's deeper than that. i doubt the job was possible at all, without an outright onslaught from metaphysics.
mircea_popescu: two legions of choir angels and a third column of succubi might have sufficed, then.
punkman: maybe it was 3 wizards and a code monkey, who's to know?
bounce: you shoulda been there and called up the heaven+hell agency and order the right actors for this show, eh
mircea_popescu: bounce i had nfi idea, at the time, and definitely would have been horrible for the role.
mircea_popescu: that's the problem here, you need some experience to be able to think.
mircea_popescu: i shall say mebbe again to you, if you do not appease me!
punkman is willing to work on specification at some point
ben_vulpes: reference client was a total fat-finger on my part
mircea_popescu: Naphex: i'm gonna start banning accunetix scans soon. its incredible how many "security researches" and hax0rs just try and run it all day << like five hundred times in a row, too. because who knows, maybe it changed ?
Naphex: mircea_popescu: aye, or just lots of monkeys running around shooting accunetix trying to get bug rewards lol
mircea_popescu: kinda a good reason to not explicitly / publicisedly offer rewards.
mircea_popescu: there's about a quarter billion idiots kept alive against nature by various welfarist governments' welfare programs, who exist like shitworms, everything is either a food dispenser or nothing to them.
Naphex: mircea_popescu: aye. oh well i just firewall drop them after 10 accunetix hits
mircea_popescu: next thing you know you gotta wear gloves because the socialist idots have made an endless supply of doorknob droolers.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell pete_dushenski apparently the chaos people loved your blog.
mircea_popescu: undata: ^ thoughts, criticism? << check it out, it's got the metal shield like asciilifeform's!
mircea_popescu: jurov you gotta make that mailman thing baby, otherwise " mircea_popescu, ben_vulpes, others" will become a header here.
TomServo: mircea_popescu: orlov piece being total idiocy << the most recent guest authored piece?
mircea_popescu: TomServo whatever asciilifeform linked earlier. something with "total base acreage", as fucking if.
mircea_popescu: next he can make a review of datacenters based on total board / cpu surface o.O
TomServo: ahaha, yes. What's your take then, as far as timeline goes?
jurov: mircea_popescu: sigh... you may note my occassional rant related to it
jurov: plus, whole idea has arisen at friday, while i had busy weekend
TomServo: mircea_popescu: Long ways back, yes.
jurov: did not take photos, sry
mircea_popescu: TomServo you ever encountered that situation where you had a smaller island, but pushed tech, surrounded yourself with fortified mech infantry and railroaded all the firlds back when the idiots around still klonked each other with knights
mircea_popescu: but then 1000 years later they got their own armors and well... game over ?
mircea_popescu: the us is going against a twin bottleneck, both social and technological. the us born boys of today are weak, the us tech of today is dull, no more edge. like that, it can only be a brothel.
mircea_popescu: and speaking of half the fun : was at japanese restaurant yest, discovered that the eating sticks, if unbroken, make the best nipple clamps ever. chicks love them, not strong enough to hurt, strong enough to majorly enhance sensitivity.
bounce: hookers and blow, what more do you need?
TomServo: mircea_popescu: can't say I recall that exact scenario - but I see your point. Better not be another 950 years of this BS though!
undata: ha, love the social commentary sprinkled with courteous bdsm tips
mircea_popescu: assbot: "we show that if an adversary is able to review this cryptosystem, a simulator can be constructed which solves the halting problem"-ethereum << that made precisely no sense. wut ?!
rithm: justcoin failed to read the specs on ripple
punkman: question is can I redirect random HTTP url to ftp:// when I detect wget
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: 1) what kind of dope must one smoke to put a micro under the tin can with the analogue amp ? <<< ahahah wut.
mircea_popescu: which is how you'll get kiled in the marketplace. if the market is 100 units, and 90 units are needed to support a well made unit, and 90 buyers could be satisfied by a shitty unit,
mircea_popescu: if the shitty unit makes it to market first then the well made unit is never happening.
jurov: punkman you can check for user agent, but why?
mircea_popescu: jurov he's trying to put a dent in his hosting bills ?
punkman: jurov, to apply linked exploit
mircea_popescu: if i have to pass another xmas w/o roast beast and cardano i'll paint you blue.
mircea_popescu: jurov: but add aspace to clearsigned cmd, and it goes << where are you adding the space ?
jurov: in the end of STATJSON
jurov: read the gpg quirks i linked, it's eye opening
mircea_popescu: uh you telling me gpg takes "STATJSON" and "STATJSON " as validly signed by the same signature ?
jurov: lol 11 exlamation points.. yknow, asciilifeform is still gathering blood, sweat, bile, etc. to put into cardano software
mircea_popescu: jurov yeah, stat/statjson are not protected against replay. this, on the principle that the response being encoded anyway, the attacker needs the key to do anything useful.
mircea_popescu: 14:16:06 mats_cd03: kakobrekla: links on log1.b-a direct to log.b-a, which is down << umm no they don't ?
kakobrekla: links like to whatever people link to.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, and get a blob coded to the owner's key, and now we know someone tried.
jurov: punkman, kakobrekla: how do you get all the public keys from gribble?
punkman: I had it download the db backups every 6 hours
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes: some derpy shit i've seen: recursive signing of documents. one party signs doc, another party signs clearsigned doc. <<< used to be how mpex did ipo contracts, but it sucks.
mircea_popescu: apparently websites can be useful even without web2.0 rounded corners javascript "design" bs.
Naphex: if justcoin is going down
Naphex: why is it still trading?
BingoBoingo: Naphex: Insufficient thought disorder? Maybe they hope late panic trades might be favorable to their own orders?
Naphex: why would anyone give a shit to trade on a burning down closing exchange
Naphex: just get your funds out and move out
Naphex: related to some altcoin ripple run shit on your server hack
Naphex: turdmeister broadcast receiver?
Naphex: asciilifeform: so that's what alert disabled?
mircea_popescu: re the "how to start your own country" thing, the opening model is so fucking braindamaged it curls my hairs.
mircea_popescu: is there anything actually intelligent in here or am i throwing it away ?
mircea_popescu: no but seriously, groups split off at that point when carrying the food (where ? they were fucking nomadic anyway) cost as much energy as the food provided ?
mircea_popescu: the sexual castration of us puritans is making them stupid i swear.
mircea_popescu: individuation is a sexual, not an economical phenomenon.
mircea_popescu: xiando hey, help me out here, what's that ancient chinese tale of the young man who found a young woman, and they fell in love, and they wished to be alone in the world ? so they suddenly were! and then wished for a cook, and suddely a cook appeared, and then kept wishing and soon enough were back at home ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah, but my fear is, how much can be trusted in the "data" of someone so fundamentally confused. can one who can't count keep a useful count of anything ?
Naphex: asciilifeform: so did you remove the fork alerts as well or just the alert-keying system?
mircea_popescu: i guess since im reading this under protest im gonna adnotate it.
Naphex: asciilifeform: didn't quite pick up that turdmeister alert snip was a bitcoin patch to check it:)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform he has a point tho. what happens if there's a fork ?
Naphex: i kept the alert system, don't have much problem with it and can easily be disabaled.
Naphex: but thats what i want for my core servers really. don't run walleting software on them
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform to reprhrase. "what should happen, if there's a fork"
Naphex: but i do want them to shut down in many cases and prevent any integrity breaches
Naphex: the chain will still be there
mircea_popescu: Naphex the problem with this approach is that well, false security.
Naphex: how is it false security?
Naphex: it's not false security
Naphex: you run the route nodes to sync the data and keep a chain
mircea_popescu: well, not in itself, but if you end up relying on it then yeah
Naphex: you then run secondary nodes with spv to ease that data and make it more usefull
Naphex: if anything corrupts the main chain, the spv will pick it up
mircea_popescu: so if you run all this why'd you want random idiot to turn off your whole infrastructure whenever ?
Naphex: the main chain(fed from the trusted nodes)
Naphex: mircea_popescu: the nodes are all synced, the only thing he turns off is the ability to receive new transactions
Naphex: and thats pretty short, i can recompile it and restart it with alerts disabled in under 10mins
Naphex: so thats not a huge downtime, alerts get notified and keyd so email all the rest
Naphex: temporary, be right back
mircea_popescu: it's unsanitary. that damned key is probably how he got his asshole extended in the first place.
assbot: Logged on 28-10-2014 11:41:26; punkman1: ;;later tell nubbins` according to that, and to my system, mp's, etc, it's 1d834ceaf8b81bd9f53dec3f4befd06f65ee422248f2c2edaf55e825bd2228c0 << that's because the CRLF line endings in the raw deed got converted to LF at some point in your process
nubbins`: unless we've all suddenly decided to nominate Windows as the OS of choice, \r\n should not be within a thousand feet of this thing :D
punkman: it doesn't discriminate, whatever you feed it
nubbins`: it should replace \r\n with \n
punkman: original genesis deed had LF, dunno when they got in there, probably some text editor
nubbins`: otherwise how the fuck is anyone using anything other than Windows going to be able to verify deeds?
punkman: base64 was there for a reason
nubbins`: but srsly, \r\n --> \n going forward
nubbins`: do a regex replace, w/e, don't care
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: scissors? no. time today? perhaps.
nubbins`: otherwise you're essentially throwing up a huge "FUCK YOU" to all of us not using winblows
nubbins`: imagine every time you wanted to verify a deed, having to manually swap \r\n with \n
nubbins`: or having to check both versions because the deed could be using either
mod6: windows? not me. i've done all my editing in vim
mod6: i don't own or use a single windows machine, and proud to have not for /years/
chetty: I like the idea you know someone is using a potential bad key because ot that problem
chetty: asciilifeform, not the most elegant way of putting it but you make a point
ben_vulpes runs macos - admitted turd, but not windows
mike_c: what about /deed/asldkfjalsdkfgj/RAW/ that has raw message.
mike_c: and you can wget and not worry about line endings
mike_c: whether or not you trust something signed by a windows user has little to do with deedbot.
jurov: ben_vulpes: wanna keys from the therealbitcoin.org bucket? to publish the charter and provisional list of patches
mike_c: having deedbot muck up the message it is given seems retarded.
jurov: unless you unanimously decided it will go elsewhere
ben_vulpes: jurov: sorry, don't understand the question
punkman: any interest in bot that announces key expiries and revocations in channel?
mike_c: yeah, ok, so we won't run deedbot on windows. what does this have to do with it mucking up messages it is given?
nubbins`: ben_vulpes genesis deed has \r\n
mike_c: from the person submitting the deed is my understanding.
nubbins`: asciilifeform ask punkman i guess
nubbins`: i assumed he was using windows
punkman: genesis deed not signed on windows
jurov: ben_vulpes: to upload files and publish then to web
punkman: the house does have some windows though
nubbins`: however it happened, there's \r\n
nubbins`: and it would be extremely important to convert all \r\n to \n when publishing deeds.
nubbins`: it would be extremely convenient for non-windows users
mike_c: to have a list of ways the deed that deedbot is given is modified before publishing?
mike_c: it shouldn't fuck with the message at all.
nubbins`: silly is not being able to verify deeds because they use retarded EOL
punkman: it just pushes bytes around indeed
nubbins`: how the fuck else am i gonna verify, transcribe by hand?
mike_c: i just said. have /deed/adsfas/RAW/
mike_c: surely you have wget on ur l33t box.
punkman: but yes some raw url will be added
xanthyos: if i donate to startcoin i can get a free sterlingcoin cryptocurrency card!
xanthyos: Sterlingcoin is The Cryptocurrency of the UK & British Isles. << didn't realize btc was geographically limited
mircea_popescu: <nubbins`> it should replace \r\n with \n << it's cant, gpg sig'd
punkman: no genesis deed was LF, but deedbot got CRLF version and it passed
punkman: it's in the manual, pretty sure
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> if any of you think this is unreasonable, please say why. << it's a wot thing. does not matter one rat's ass what anyone thinks of it as long as you got a policy you thought out and are sticking to.
mircea_popescu: <mike_c> and you can wget and not worry about line endings << somebody's not read the log :D
jurov: <mircea_popescu> o yes it does.<< same thing as spaces in the end of lines, you did not get it
jurov: line endings do not go into sig
jurov: unless –not-dash-escaped option
mircea_popescu: jurov what i meant on this instance was that pasting dos text in linux gpg results in double line breaks and an unprocessable inpuit.
punkman: openpgp spec says normalize to CRLF I think
mircea_popescu: generally tho, the concept of "line" should not exist for gpg.
punkman: "The signature is calculated over the text data with its line endings converted to <CR><LF>."
hanbot: BingoBoingo wd, answered
punkman: "Also, any trailing whitespace -- spaces (0x20) and tabs (0x09) -- at the end of any line is removed when the cleartext signature is generated."
punkman: so there's a lot of ways to make dupe deeds
mircea_popescu: it stays with gpg in about the same reason bitcoin stands with the derpitude coming out of the scamdation.
punkman: " As with binary signatures on text documents, a cleartext signature is calculated on the text using canonical <CR><LF> line endings." << wtf does this mean
assbot: Logged on 28-07-2014 19:19:31; asciilifeform: results - and from this comes strength; the fight now turns, from a draining, futile floundering - to a merry, wrathful clobbering of a dying vermin, who with us - men - has nothing whatsoever in common. But it all begins - with nonparticipation.' (Беркем аль Атоми, articles. translation mine.)
chetty: yeah but now you guys have another excuse
chetty: just like I found one that consuming chocolate is good for memory :)
BingoBoingo: <chetty> just like I found one that consuming chocolate is good for memory :) << No, people with better memory just remember chocolate === good
chetty: what passes for science these days connects dots that don't even exist, but I got to admit sometimes the answers they come up with are fun
BingoBoingo: Found on reddit, so harder to tell if authentic. Fucking Amateurs!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform mkay, so i got as far as page 67. i fail to see why any of this drivel is either important or useful, and especially the conflation of "country" and "territory" seems idiotic.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Other than Sealand and the Hutt River Principality... I don't know of any that really come close.
TheNewDeal: mp are you reading that buchanan book?
TheNewDeal: Ahh... was thinking of some blog someone posted the other day.
TheNewDeal: And for the record : this was a joke directed at mikayla, and two lines later I stated I was only kidding "19:29:01TheNewDeal:Usagi will open one for you, just send him a,pm"
mircea_popescu: both answered, buncha stuff, seem reasonable enough guys. i sent them a link to webirc
cazalla: seems i drank too much last night and abused some people on twitter
mircea_popescu: i have no idea, it could be anyone. after all, woman's not in the wot.
mircea_popescu: cazalla do i have to fire you now because sjw outrage ?
cazalla: qntra is not big enough for people to demand my head but i'm sure that will happen in time
cazalla: don't forget that i will capitulate and apologise
mircea_popescu: or maybe the asswipes get to learn that they're being done a favour by being allowed to advertise, not the other fucking way around.
mircea_popescu: too much sjw-ing, too little abject prostration in thanks they've somehow not been killed yet, for no apparent reason.
TheNewDeal: is she about to shit on that dude's face?
cazalla: TheNewDeal, something is protruding from that area
kakobrekla: just as i pasted the live feed link, they said "need to secure area cause there was crypto gear on board."
TheNewDeal: could have been the first bitcoin node in space?
BingoBoingo: I call dibs on the USG Bezzel Rocket explodes qntra piece!
gribble: log1.bitcoin-assets.com is down
kakobrekla hears fan slowing down due to increased shit intake
jurov: what's the avg volume of the ddos?
TheNewDeal: Posted todays logs up until a few minutes ago
jurov: kakobrekla: if it isn't terabytes, i can try setting up amazon cdn for you
kakobrekla: for bitbet im already waiting new boxen delivery
BingoBoingo: As matter of record I would like to advance as evidence Google News sucks the point the WKMG in Orlando was the only hit for the term "Nasa Explosion" within the past 12 hours.
kakobrekla: logs - anyone can host - i have an interface for that.
jurov: olay, let's try it with logs
gribble: Nick 'jurov', with hostmask 'jurov!~jurov@mx.coinbr.com', is identified as user 'jurov', with GPG key id 677ABD62D0AEE7D7, key fingerprint BBB0A99950037551F533850A677ABD62D0AEE7D7, and bitcoin address None
gribble: log1.bitcoin-assets.com is up
artifexd: Yeah. Trilema isn't working from here.
TheNewDeal: probably just canada with their cups and strings internet
bounce: openbsd apparently dropping loadable kernel module support, so far without announcement. huh.
mircea_popescu: uhm. i have no idea. anyone unable to load it, pastebin your dig response ?
mircea_popescu: PING 23.235.235.243 (23.235.235.243) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from 23.235.235.243: icmp_seq=1 ttl=49 time=273 ms etc.
BingoBoingo: bounce> openbsd apparently dropping loadable kernel module support, so far without announcement. huh. << Not many actual uses of them in the first place.
bounce: linux loves 'em to bits
BingoBoingo: Looking into actual uses of them in ports it seems HP bios reflash utility was one of few examples.
BingoBoingo: bounce: Reading comments on different articles about the change everyone with a linux background seems conviced OpenBSD is shooting itself, when really there's different ways to make machines do things.
mircea_popescu: i have nfi idea why anyone'd not be able to get to it. esp if it pings ok.
mircea_popescu: Load Averages: 0.55 0.41 0.65 << the server is neither under heavy load nor actually split from teh interwebs.
gribble: Error: "isdown" is not a valid command.
mircea_popescu: do you all have a broken implementation of syn cookiues maybe ?!
mircea_popescu: you know they lied, you read it here what, a week ago ?
BingoBoingo: Eh, lied mislead... strong signatures could have made all of the difference.
mircea_popescu: why the fuck am I able to get through to it no problem ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Well pieces prolly cover a good area around the pad. Made it up a bit before going boom.
elementofone: is there a dollar to bitcoin ratio on bitcoin?
elementofone: JUST GIVE ME A LINK AND I WILL READ IT THEN BAN ME OK =)
petahash: its based on the exchange rate
gribble: Nick 'petahash', with hostmask 'petahash!~petahash@d173-183-96-243.bchsia.telus.net', is not identified.
danielpbarron: the exploded nasa thing was carrying "crypto equipment" according to CNN
mircea_popescu: just as i pasted the live feed link, they said "need to secure area cause there was crypto gear on board."
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: Text source or details? Kind of assumed golden toilet crypto equiptment goes to space for both sides so the USians and Ruskies can plot on the subject of stabbing the other faction first in case relations become sour...
danielpbarron: and thought, "it's not every day i see the word 'crypto' on tv"