log
ben_vulpes: and given that the character's lost or whatevered those keys, i don't see any reason for a) that to change or b) influence how the wot regards polarbeard
ben_vulpes: and as specifically regards polarbeard, i am happy to review patches
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: let's say tomorrow some new fella shows up, new key, and admits that he is ninjashogun who lost his key...
asciilifeform: also makes no difference ?
asciilifeform: or,
asciilifeform: 'admission against interest' ?
ben_vulpes: but register formal irritation re your inability or refusal to answer to inquiries such as http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1384093 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 09:44:19; ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383814 << if by external you mean: does not introduce further dependencies into the codebase, maybe, depending on the tool
asciilifeform: (i think in usa it is called 'declaration against interest' but ianal)
ben_vulpes: and http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1384095 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 09:44:25; ben_vulpes: also lol what /we/ who are /you/?
asciilifeform: useful concept
mircea_popescu: <jurov> merely tasking them to understand existing code is sufficient. "and no, you're not allowed to redo it nor pull libraries" << jurov has it.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> also makes no difference ? <<< quite.
mircea_popescu: what difference would it make ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9300 @ 0.0005592 = 5.2006 BTC [-] {3}
polarbeard: ben_vulpes: sorry, I missed that one, I was talking about a tool like logrotate
polarbeard: which I think comes by default in all linux distros, idk about unixes though
danielpbarron: https://imgur.com/a/meH0a << here's my screenshots, completely raw and unedited
assbot: isis pgp - Album on Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1WIafoM )
polarbeard: all I can say is that log rotation is daily business on most decent systems, but if anybody has a rational answer against it I would not remove shitty-ghost-rotation from trb
ben_vulpes: yes, i don't quite care about 'statements against interest'
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: that key id appears to be quite illegible
danielpbarron: yeah i can't figure it out either
ben_vulpes: someone can show up tomorrow and claim to be tiberius, tat, smickles, and until they sign with keys that prove it they're either joking or some other thing i don't understand
punkman: ben_vulpes: would ya read ninjashogun's patches?
danielpbarron: "snowden" says same
ben_vulpes: punkman: for lolz most definitely
ben_vulpes: and who knows what else of interest might be in 'em
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: and whose pgptron prints 'Decryption....'
asciilifeform: and wtf
ben_vulpes: what harm'd there be in the reading i ask
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: and why would message text be in english
asciilifeform: and, and.
ben_vulpes: so polarbeard burned his previous identity by getting uppity with me. what of it.
asciilifeform: and i won't even comment on the nonsensical contents.
ben_vulpes: it's not submitting patches any more, so i don't see the point of the discussion.
danielpbarron: yeh, so is this still a qntra article or..?
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: potentially. can mention all of these points.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron possibly not.
asciilifeform: 'alleged martian corpse found. but appears to be that of a dog with pig ears glued on'
ben_vulpes: mod6, polarbeard, asciilifeform, mircea_popescu: y'all follow?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: how to operate your wot is between you and odin
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes yeah, i think you nailed the matter, can be laid to rest.
asciilifeform: i certainly see the rationale here
ben_vulpes: provisions are in place for noobs to fuck up and recover.
ben_vulpes: you'll note i'm not handing out 1's just for showing up any more.
ben_vulpes: *and*
mircea_popescu: i'm still a slut. while that lasts.
jurov: ;;later tell mike_c just an idea - if the rating is public, you can link the logs
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ;;seen mike_c
gribble: mike_c was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 11 weeks, 2 days, 23 hours, 5 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: <mike_c> let's get that thing out the door and get alf some goddamn bitcoin already
mircea_popescu: i think it's really best practice to rate in chan.
asciilifeform: anybody know him in the meat? is the fella on a polar voyage or what
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform iirc shitty job + new kid.
asciilifeform: ah
ben_vulpes: (and once again polarbeard /who are you/?)
asciilifeform tries to picture harsher job than his own, it's gotta involve petro drilling platforms with no connectivity or sumthin'
jurov: breeding pigs in space
asciilifeform: i would also like to know ~who is~ polarbeard
asciilifeform: кто ты по жизни, polarbeard ?
ben_vulpes: (while it may appear to /you/ that the mega participants in this cult are disembodied names, /we/ all know each other -- names, geographic locations, general type of employ, but /you/ do not have this [or i'll point out] any pedigree here)
jurov: eh calm down
jurov: you think that deaf idiot at the conference was really me?
asciilifeform: l0l!
ben_vulpes: how could i know, jurov! i never saw a keyid from you.
jurov: :D
ben_vulpes: heh that is an interesting hole in the keysigning party i guess
ben_vulpes: what if the person showing up is not actually the keyholder
asciilifeform: first time i was to see mircea_popescu, i actually had no idea how he will pick me out of the crowd at the airport. but he did.
ben_vulpes: same way everyone else singles you out of the crowd lol
asciilifeform: everyone, l0l
ben_vulpes: i'd seen the photos from c2, 'twas how i knew you and mike_c
mod6: heh, there was such a crowd at the exit of the security area, me and Mr. P. walked right by eachother I think.
mircea_popescu: yeah cuz crazy argentines, they're like excited sheep in the airport.
ben_vulpes: planez!
asciilifeform: dirigiblez!
ben_vulpes: polarbeard: hey can you confirm for the log that you understand what's going on with your various idents?
mod6: <+ben_vulpes> mod6, polarbeard, asciilifeform, mircea_popescu: y'all follow? << this is my 0.00000002: If you don't trust a man, no matter what his keyid is today, how can i ignore that and trust a new ident? The correct thing to do as a man, admit your mistake, and or ask for forgiveness and move on. Simple as that. We're all adults here.
polarbeard: yes, I understand, it wasn't my intention to change nick, I nuked my keys
polarbeard: I *loved* that nick
mircea_popescu: mod6 well basically, cause the concept of "a man" is pretty much the key.
ben_vulpes: ^^
mod6: And I understand that part too Mr. P. Typically, this is what seperates us from 'dog'.
mircea_popescu: now a dog you can't trust!
ben_vulpes: polarbeard: coulda kept the nick, but registered a new key and we'd be in the same spot.
polarbeard: and definitely not ready to tell more about my true and only self
ben_vulpes: freenode nicks are not crypto.
polarbeard: maybe one day, I don't kiss in the first date
mircea_popescu: lol
mod6: For posterity: Do not do this. If you get a neg rating and you care about your wot ident, do be an adult and do as I said. Lot less problems and drama this way.
polarbeard: ben_vulpes: I asked somebody if assbot can be forced to forget the nick, it can't
polarbeard: or that somebody told me
asciilifeform: http://www.retrodirizhabl.ru/m04.jpg << mircea_popescu's dirigible
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1S4p1HD )
mod6: To me, this all felt like subversion. I didn
ben_vulpes: at orbital heights no less
mod6: 't like that.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: and no smaller than mexico
mod6: Being honest and forthcoming about matters will always go much father with me than anything else. ftr.
ben_vulpes: ENTIRELY unrelated: http://thismighthurt.tumblr.com/post/137653621429/siren-school-by-isabella-rotman-buy-the-comic << girl sends this along
assbot: This Might Hurt, but I'm Hungry ... ( http://bit.ly/1S4pauE )
jurov: kek, airship alternative to trans-siberian train.. now that'd be some achievement for hipsters
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: much related to earlier thread !
asciilifeform: where http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1384137 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 14:40:14; mircea_popescu: "About a week ago, this pretty girl messages me out of the blue and we hit it off. We talked that night up until 5 AM and we have so much things in common. > She loves Star Wars > Plays video games > All other super nerdy shit > Never met a girl like that" << holy shit, this "all that much" evaluates to almost 0. wtf is wrong with people.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: indeed!
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> yeah cuz crazy argentines, they're like excited sheep in the airport. << haha, it was a big crowd. You picked me out pretty quick.
mod6: Also: From now on, if you are not in my WoT, and you are a n00b here, any pm's will be ignored, and you will feed my ignore list.
ben_vulpes: i still love you vexual baby
ben_vulpes: very interesting problems that crop up in the curation of the wot.
mats: he doesn't pm me anymore, probably because i'm not as fun as ben_vulpes
ben_vulpes: our timezones are so far off he just leaves me messages
ben_vulpes: unless the kid's up at 4 or whatever, i rarely actually interact with him.
ben_vulpes: heh
ben_vulpes: makes me sound like a great parent
asciilifeform: in other news, the 'shiva' thing is nearing 6,000 ln.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: loc?
asciilifeform: aha
ben_vulpes grimaces
ben_vulpes: approaching usable?
asciilifeform: for connoisseurs only.
ben_vulpes looking forward to it
trinque: odd that it's trivial to figure out where I moved the deedbot- node, yet... works now.
trinque: whereas on AWS, blackholed to death
asciilifeform: trinque: all of my nodes ban aws
asciilifeform: as for prb, it doesn't like talking to trb (esp. with the malleus patch)
trinque: yep, but this was just connecting to whomever he wanted
mod6: Ok moving on.
mod6: mircea_popescu, asciilifeform, ben_vulpes et. al., any further thoughts if we should clean up the code alignment (currently with spaces) post release and do a one-time clean up with tabs?
mod6: Trying to decide if I should post 'http://dpaste.com/2EZJVXA.txt' to the ML.
ben_vulpes: mod6: appears to be a useful tool
mod6: So the difference in 'http://dpaste.com/2EZJVXA.txt' is that the block of code in Sign() is spaced with tabs. And to Mr. P.'s point it should probably be all in a file or nothing. Otherwise its mis-matched. Some with spaces, some with tabs.
mod6: I'm prefectly happy to reconstruct the patch with spaces to stay in alignment with the current (albiet unwated) spacing scheme.
mod6: And then we can re-align post release.
mod6: Or, we can halt everything else, and create a new genesis and re-align, re-vpatch and re-sign everything.
polarbeard: mod6: honest question, why using two flags if they can't be used at the same time?
polarbeard: can't it be like a three state flag? 0 -> no enforce, 1 -> enforce low, 2 -> enforce high
polarbeard: wink wink, ternary computers
asciilifeform: polarbeard: i originally suggested this
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=21-01-2016#1379610 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 13:36:27; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1379490 << rather than have the statement checking for luser who set both flags high and barfing, why not have two flags, e.g., 'forceS' and 'lowhighS'.
polarbeard: that's still too flags, I searched before asking :)
polarbeard: *two
asciilifeform: polarbeard: you're still using 2 bits.
polarbeard: that's right, I only mean to simplify usage (if that matters to anybody)
ben_vulpes: i prefer my c++ as antagonistic as possible
polarbeard: also removes one conditional, as ascii noted days ago
mod6: so what we want, is three different ways: no force one way or another, force high, or force low. remember, i originally didn't want to do a force high at all. but since asciilifeform requested this, i'm entertaining this option.
mod6: I believe we need two flags.
mod6: If we simply get rid of 'fHighS' and 'fLowS' and replace with say 'fForceS', then how can we differentiate between entering into the high or low if block?
polarbeard: not using a boolean
polarbeard: or using two booleans, ascii's way
mod6: am i not using two booleans, polarbeard?
polarbeard: but yours are contradictory
polarbeard: therefore the need for the conditional
mod6: how would one set this singular boolean?
mod6: remember, i want a default state to *not* require a flag at all.
polarbeard: you can't, using a single boolean, do you mean an int?
mod6: right, i'd prefer not to use an int.
ben_vulpes: mod6: why not?
mod6: because it causes confusion to have -forceS=0 (low) and -forceS=1
polarbeard: you can use signeds, and then -1 0 1
mod6: from a user standpoint, i feel like its more conusing anyway.
polarbeard: 0 is the default, you may give -forceS=0 though, but that has no effect
mod6: polarbeard: keep in mind that i considered all of this over a week ago -- and decided against it. so yeah, i have put a lot of thought into this.
mod6: added complexity will result in bugs.
asciilifeform observes that this thread has already taken up more space than the patch.
ben_vulpes: i have a hard time giving a shit about the ergonomics when it's covered in finger-snipping blades already.
ben_vulpes: deck chairs.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67200 @ 0.00055728 = 37.4492 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: oh come now asciilifeform like we don't waste time on vastly more trivial shit all the time
mod6: ^
asciilifeform: ~we~
mod6: and asciilifeform, keep in mind that this is a *must* fix. i think that is vastly important that we discuss this in channel.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11100 @ 0.00055728 = 6.1858 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: ideally such a thread would result in a philosophical statement that'd guide future flags.
asciilifeform: mod6: ok. the rationale for my suggested thing was that no-flag ought to revert to 100% classical behaviour
mod6: agreed.
asciilifeform: as in exactly same code.
asciilifeform: high s variant is exquisitely useful for when we get a pool.
mod6: which is why i added that part.
asciilifeform: low s is useful so mircea_popescu can get his tx out without waiting a week.
asciilifeform: what remains ?
mod6: i think there seems to be questions around why i have two booleans.
mod6: i believe my implementation to be correct.
asciilifeform: what's the diff b/w 'ECDSA_sign' and 'ECDSA_do_sign' ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 182722 @ 0.00055685 = 101.7487 BTC [-] {3}
mod6: what are you driving at here?
asciilifeform: mod6: i've no idea
asciilifeform: but i do not know the difference
asciilifeform: and would like to
asciilifeform: reading the proposed patch
ben_vulpes: http://openssl.sourcearchive.com/documentation/0.9.8o-5ubuntu1/crypto_2ecdsa_2ecdsa_8h_a22916b9617edac877f99da5b78de7ce1.html#a22916b9617edac877f99da5b78de7ce1
assbot: openssl 0.9.8o-5ubuntu1, crypto_2ecdsa_2ecdsa_8h_a22916b9617edac877f99da5b78de7ce1.html ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZM78MD )
ben_vulpes: http://openssl.sourcearchive.com/documentation/0.9.8o-5ubuntu1/crypto_2ecdsa_2ecdsa_8h_aa6f4bce46de947050b5cc529b310392c.html
assbot: openssl 0.9.8o-5ubuntu1, crypto_2ecdsa_2ecdsa_8h_aa6f4bce46de947050b5cc529b310392c.html ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZM77YU )
ben_vulpes: which is not the blessed openssl, but...
asciilifeform: ah ok
ben_vulpes: appears to be a wrapper around do_sign to some extent or another
ben_vulpes: gah this return value shit is hilarious
ben_vulpes: mod6: what's the rationale behind including the commented out printfs?
mod6: so the deal there is that was just some debugging info -- that may be useful to someone at some point.
mod6: there was a discussion around this, and decided to leave them in as a result. will dig up...
mod6: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1379707 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 15:20:05; mod6: does anyone have any pref on the commented out DEBUG statements for the finalized one? just remove them?
mod6: anyway, asciilifeform yeah, i just grabbed that entire bit of code from here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/v0.9.3/src/key.cpp#L202-L227
assbot: bitcoin/key.cpp at v0.9.3 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1PxUUSi )
mod6: I'm not an expert on the openssl internals. If you think I should not trust ECDSA_do_sign and reimplment with ECDSA_sign, I can.
mod6: i suppose if we continue to use ECDSA_sign, we can continue to use: memcpy(&vchSig[0], pchSig, nSize);
ben_vulpes: that'd be closest to the original code
ben_vulpes: and imho preferrable for that reason.
mod6: true
mod6: not sure what to do abut this tho:
mod6: unsigned char pchSig[10000];
ben_vulpes: perhaps fixing magic numbers is out of scope for a patch to force s-values?
mircea_popescu: ^
mircea_popescu goes to read teh log
ben_vulpes: mod6: are you referring to fixing the magic numbers?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-01-2016#1384722 << well, the proposal was for you to release current, 99996 or what it comes to, after which take a step back and do a clean of the spaces, make it 99995☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-01-2016 01:04:29; mod6: mircea_popescu, asciilifeform, ben_vulpes et. al., any further thoughts if we should clean up the code alignment (currently with spaces) post release and do a one-time clean up with tabs?
mircea_popescu: so you get a week off or something, during which people just run teh script and sign the results.
mircea_popescu: even a mod6 needs a week off now and again.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-01-2016#1384727 << this seems sane.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-01-2016 01:10:06; mod6: And then we can re-align post release.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-01-2016#1384741 << stop paying attention to these dudes, optimizing the wrong shed.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-01-2016 01:23:27; mod6: so what we want, is three different ways: no force one way or another, force high, or force low. remember, i originally didn't want to do a force high at all. but since asciilifeform requested this, i'm entertaining this option.
mircea_popescu: !up aknix
aknix: Thanks!
mircea_popescu: aha. who're you ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16255 @ 0.00056495 = 9.1833 BTC [+] {3}
mod6: Ok sounds good mircea_popescu. I'll stop my current work on the high/low patch. I'll spend this week getting the changes [.wot in the pwd, and mechanical post-patch hash checking] in V [v99996] released. Then I'll immediately begin work on a re-alignment of all the patches we currently are distributing.
mircea_popescu: wait.
mod6: ok
mircea_popescu: what's your current work on teh patch ?
aknix: was actually just seeing if the channel was public again. Used to stop by now and then.
mod6: Nothing more than "send to the list", if its current form 'http://dpaste.com/2EZJVXA.txt' is acceptable.
mircea_popescu: that's kinda what i had in mind too.
mod6: Ok. I can get that done tonight yet.
mircea_popescu: i guess i unwittingly confused you, sorry about that. the S-patch was not actually intended to mark a new release did it ?
mod6: Oh no.
mod6: But it probably would have been the last thing to go into the tree before a release patch.
mod6: (a vpatch to tie them all together)
mircea_popescu: oh ok, my bad. so what i was thinking here is : a) finish the patch ; b) do all the other stuff you were going to do in your own time ; c) when ready make a new version ; d) take a week off, during which everyone [who cares to] can write and run a script to / /
mircea_popescu: after which back to normal. that sound sane ?
mod6: Yeah, sounds good. Thanks, want to get all of this done in a sane order and timely fashion.
mircea_popescu: so we'll have the 99996 > 99995 be "all tabulation, machine checkable"
mircea_popescu: and while it'd be tempting to overload it with stuff like moving the {, i would think it's better not to. make it simple and sweet to check.
mircea_popescu: stuff like { much easier to fix as patches/code is reviewed, by and by.
mod6: agreed. let's try to keep it just down to the tabs for now.
mod6: im sure i might need some more guidence when I get to working on that part, but we can cross that bridge when we come to it.
mircea_popescu: this'd be the last juncture at which people who seriously and staunchly are against the space to tab switch should raise hell.
mircea_popescu: and yes ben_vulpes is writing a style guide from what i understand
mod6: yeah, and this should make it all easier going forward to create the vpatch. overall, a good move sooner rather than later imho.
mircea_popescu: >D
mod6: heheheh
ben_vulpes: wutnostahp
mircea_popescu: you said.
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1380810 << does it not /drip/ with sarcasm?☝︎
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 04:10:33; ben_vulpes: WHY NOT WRITE A STYLE GUIDE WHILE WE'RE AT IT
mircea_popescu: so ?
mircea_popescu: it's my party, i can be a straight man if i want to
mircea_popescu: straight if i want to...
mircea_popescu: you would straight too-ooo-hoooh!
mod6: haha
mod6: !b 4
assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1B02DJ7.txt )
ben_vulpes checks todo list
ben_vulpes: entire code base is almost guaranteed to be in conflict with any style guide unfortunately.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-01-2016#1384778 << yeah it's fine.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-01-2016 01:34:57; mod6: i believe my implementation to be correct.
polarbeard: 'corel devs did that on purpos to split the comuniteh!'
thestringpuller: so. they took out verifyall in core bitcoind and replaced it with -reindex. -reindex doesn't disregard checkpoints. or at least no one knows if it does or not. how do these people have Ph.D's and shit?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: thoughts on ecdsa calls?
ben_vulpes: "father's pistols"?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-01-2016#1384779 <<< i don't think you're ready for this one son.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-01-2016 01:36:11; asciilifeform: what's the diff b/w 'ECDSA_sign' and 'ECDSA_do_sign' ?
mircea_popescu: ECDSA_sign() is wrapper function for ECDSA_sign_ex with kinv and rp set to NULL ; ECDSA_do_sign() is wrapper function for ECDSA_do_sign_ex with kinv and rp set to NULL. ECDSA_sign_ex() computes a digital signature of the dgstlen bytes hash value dgst using the private EC key eckey and the optional pre-computed values kinv and rp. The DER encoded signatures is stored in sig and it's length is returned in sig_len. (sig
mircea_popescu: must point to ECDSA_size bytes of memory, the parameter type ~is ignored~). Meanwhile ECDSA_do_sign_ex() computes a digital signature of the dgst_len bytes hash value dgst using the private key eckey and the optional precomputed values kinv and rp. The signature is returned in a newly allocated ECDSA_SIG structure (or NULL on error).
mircea_popescu: geddit ?
mircea_popescu: funny ben_vulpes, i was juist on that.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller verification of any functional kind is the sworn enemy of anyone with phds. thinkaboutit.
ben_vulpes: i'm stalking your log progress
mircea_popescu: fancy that, someone actually thought this is how you design a function stack.
ben_vulpes: i will point out that changing to the wrapper implementation implies audits to be done of the implementation delta.
mircea_popescu: the difference between the two, incidentally, is not trivial.
ben_vulpes: still 'fine'?
mircea_popescu: !s fine from:mircea
assbot: 822 results for 'fine from:mircea' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=fine+from%3Amircea
mircea_popescu: which one ?
ben_vulpes: most recent
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes we were discussing flags.
BingoBoingo: <danielpbarron> yeh, so is this still a qntra article or..? << If you submit something with all of the point brought up it channel, its chance of publication is a weighted coinflip. Depends what you can make of it.
ben_vulpes: HA DERP
ben_vulpes: my bad.
mircea_popescu: http://openssl.sourcearchive.com/documentation/0.9.8o-5ubuntu1/ecs__sign_8c_source.html#l00067 << they're here.
assbot: openssl 0.9.8o-5ubuntu1, ecs__sign_8c_source.html ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jwg5HM )
ben_vulpes: right but if we stick to the old impl the audit is no longer required.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-01-2016#1384844 << i'd like to know what mircea_popescu intends to do about ~future~ style-nonconformant patches.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-01-2016 02:22:44; mircea_popescu: this'd be the last juncture at which people who seriously and staunchly are against the space to tab switch should raise hell.
mircea_popescu: the do version ultimately returns return ecdsa->meth->ecdsa_do_sign(dgst, dlen, kinv, rp, eckey); while the no-do version just calls the do version.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not sign them.
asciilifeform: gonna reject because my emacs emits a mixture of tabs'n'spaces ?
mircea_popescu: it does ?!
asciilifeform: i have it align columns when possible
asciilifeform: so now i gotta write an elisp for trb
asciilifeform: whereas before i did not
mircea_popescu: what non-tabulated collumns do you use ?!
ben_vulpes: i am still anti-tab, delimiter token hoojaberry aside
asciilifeform: indentation to the ( in an if ( ... etc
mircea_popescu: you indent to the ( not to the if ?!
asciilifeform: the 1st line of the inner block - yes
asciilifeform: like k&r did.
polarbeard: mircea_popescu: look who removed the magicnum https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/9ef7fa34
assbot: Code cleanup: use ECDSA_size() instead of fixed 10,000 byte sig buffe… · bitcoin/bitcoin@9ef7fa3 · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jwgv0X )
asciilifeform: generally i see 'style guide' as a thing between the writer and his gods
ben_vulpes: indentation is poetry in any lisp
mircea_popescu: polarbeard you're not familiar with history. 2011 gavin is ok gavin.
mircea_popescu: see http://trilema.com/2013/and-gavin-moves-on-to-the-dark-side-the-bitcoin-project-is-officially-hijacked/
assbot: And Gavin moves on to the dark side. The Bitcoin project is officially hijacked on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1MvB8Kx )
asciilifeform: to proclaim one in a project which did not previously have one, creates a megatonne of work for a great many people, to no very obvious benefit
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well, if there's no consensus, there's no consensus and there it goes.
asciilifeform: the people whose crap i cannot stand reading, are the ones WITHOUT A CONSISTENT style.
mircea_popescu: poor mod6 gets no week off!
asciilifeform: lack of any style at all is generally symptomatic of serious cranial cockroaches
ben_vulpes: only reasonable style guide for this codebase is "make it look like the lines immediately above and below"
mircea_popescu: hey, if the change is not obviously a good thing it's probably a bad idea. it pisses me the fuck off, but whatevs, i'll sed or something.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 232600 @ 0.0005613 = 130.5584 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: sed, sed.
asciilifeform: i'm not even opposed to the thing getting retabulated on releases.
mircea_popescu: i can't code worth a crap anyway.
asciilifeform: but rejecting patches because they have the wrong terminal bells is lunacy
polarbeard: ben_vulpes: lol, vi... I mean notepad.exe has a plugin for that
ben_vulpes: what that
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform perhaps rejecting workers because they forgot to wipe their ass this morning also ?
asciilifeform: polarbeard: didja write a patch and i missed it reading the log ?
polarbeard: asciilifeform: gavin did
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-01-2016#1384801 << there's ~no difference.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-01-2016 01:58:21; mod6: I'm not an expert on the openssl internals. If you think I should not trust ECDSA_do_sign and reimplment with ECDSA_sign, I can.
polarbeard: ben_vulpes: for looking to the lines above and below and use that as the defaults
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's a raft of cosmetic/credible fixes between .5 and .6.
asciilifeform: well, one allocates, the other drops in place
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the one calls the other anyway.
asciilifeform: aha, was reading ben_vulpes's links earlier saw this
mircea_popescu: you mean my links ?
asciilifeform: and them
mircea_popescu: his are badly tabulated, don't count.
asciilifeform: l0l
ben_vulpes rolls eyes
ben_vulpes: polarbeard: huh i had no idea editors needed plugins to do that
ben_vulpes: the abominable variable naming alignment, yes
BingoBoingo: <thestringpuller> so. they took out verifyall in core bitcoind and replaced it with -reindex. -reindex doesn't disregard checkpoints. or at least no one knows if it does or not. how do these people have Ph.D's and shit? << -reindex and -verifyall are two different things.
asciilifeform: incidentally -verifyall was not in the classical bitcoin !
asciilifeform: i added it !
mircea_popescu: iirc also .6 branch
asciilifeform: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=verifyall << i don't see any
assbot: Search Results · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1JwhEpf )
mircea_popescu: was a flurry of "build confidence & establish trust" activity cca 2011 / early 2012.
asciilifeform: did they call it something else ?
mircea_popescu: yeah, what was it
mircea_popescu: -checkblocks=<n> How many blocks to check at startup (default: 288, 0 = all)
asciilifeform: 288?!!
asciilifeform: how was this arrived at, gotta ask
asciilifeform: ouija board/
asciilifeform: ?
mircea_popescu: heh. this is novel,
mircea_popescu: it's a rewriting of an older thing
mircea_popescu: back when they added "check level" too, maybe 0.9 ?
mircea_popescu: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/972 < there we go
assbot: Add -checklevel and improve -checkblocks by sipa · Pull Request #972 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jwisuq )
mircea_popescu: later on those 6 levels became just 4.
mircea_popescu: then later went from $$$___MAGIC_nUmBeR...you are not expected to understand how this works...ReBmUn_CIGAM___$$$ = 2500 to $$$___MAGIC_nUmBeR...you are not expected to understand how this works...ReBmUn_CIGAM___$$$ = 288
mircea_popescu: prolly to celebrate someone's girlfriend's success in dieting.
mircea_popescu: ("Note that even level 6 does not do signature/script checking." is prolly the best part in all of that junk.)
polarbeard: lol
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68550 @ 0.00056208 = 38.5306 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: "what happens if a miner includes a bogus tx you say ? oh, the other miners would never extend that chain!" "wait, didn't those same other miners extend a chain that failed the rulechange they supposedly voted for ?" "sfyl".
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49650 @ 0.0005563 = 27.6203 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15367 @ 0.0005629 = 8.6501 BTC [+] {2}
mod6 reads logs
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 198458 @ 0.00056029 = 111.194 BTC [-] {2}
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> asciilifeform well, if there's no consensus, there's no consensus and there it goes. <+mircea_popescu> poor mod6 gets no week off! << ok so no consensus on the space/tabs issue at this time.
mod6: hmm. so then, I believe if i remove the tabs from my S-patch and leave the spaces ~in~, then it'll look more like Mr. P.'s patch he put together.
mod6: i can work on that tonight.
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 397.45, vol: 5829.09891885 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 396.941, vol: 9116.22499 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 396.66, vol: 27096.81758218 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 387.0, vol: 11.6693 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 402.147406, vol: 62621.59270000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 397.03, vol: 577.58243073 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 394.674500011, vol: 54.61105441 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
BingoBoingo: ;;more
gribble: 399.991092065
ben_vulpes: ty mod6!
mod6: no problem at all.
mod6: we'll get there, just gotta keep driving towards our goals.
mod6: one line at a time.
mod6: here's what it looks like with only spaces in there (much more similar to Mr. P.'s (second)): http://dpaste.com/03MMVP8.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1lIXSv7 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23450 @ 0.0005631 = 13.2047 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26900 @ 0.00056247 = 15.1304 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: !t s.mpoe
assbot: These beans is shit.
thestringpuller: !t m s.mpoe
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.0005527 / 0.00055992 / 0.00056692 (5975415 shares, 3,345.81 BTC), 7D: 0.00050896 / 0.00055577 / 0.00060199 (23555869 shares, 13,091.73 BTC), 30D: 0.00047125 / 0.00052438 / 0.00060199 (60407942 shares, 31,677.18 BTC)
BingoBoingo: !t s.bbet
assbot: Your actions are useless.
BingoBoingo: !t m s.bbet
assbot: [MPEX:S.BBET] 1D: 0.000121 / 0.000121 / 0.000121 (270 shares, 0.03 BTC), 7D: 0.000121 / 0.00012637 / 0.00013 (670 shares, 0.08 BTC), 30D: 0.0001 / 0.00011988 / 0.00013 (3600 shares, 0.43 BTC)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69058 @ 0.00055631 = 38.4177 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12650 @ 0.00056309 = 7.1231 BTC [+] {2}
deedbot-: [Qntra] Corn Belt Pain Continues As Supply Trickles Into Markets - http://qntra.net/2016/01/corn-belt-pain-continues-as-supply-trickles-into-markets/
BingoBoingo once he completes the re-reading list would like to publish a book, or at least a lecture series title "The Will To Hodl"
BingoBoingo also starting to get that uncomfortable feeling of "Alf was right" https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=145369611511762&w=2
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67149 @ 0.00056502 = 37.9405 BTC [+] {3}
BingoBoingo: "more or less right. Release builds for VAX usually don't end much
BingoBoingo: early before the release. There were already times, where I had to
BingoBoingo: stop them, in order to ship. Those two to three months time, it's a lot
BingoBoingo: of babysitting. When I'm lucky, DPB just dies, and I get mail and
BingoBoingo: restart, if I'm unlucky, it just gets stuck, and I may not recognize it
BingoBoingo: for a (few) day(s)."
BingoBoingo: ^ i.e. the testing on exotic hardware appears to be fading
mod6: alright, the DER patch has been sent to the ML:
mod6: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-January/000193.html
assbot: [BTC-dev] Enforcement of 'S' value in DER signatures ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZMq0uH )
mod6: And V mirror has been updated, as well as the graph (http://thebitcoin.foundation/misc/vpatch-nodes.html)
BingoBoingo: mod6: When do you think it would make sense to dam the Mississippi river to generate hydroelectric power for mining?
mod6: yesterday
BingoBoingo: Nah, need more Hodl first
BingoBoingo: Also friendlier locals to work with
mod6: there are dams already, there is one I was just looking at in minneapolis while standing outside in -20 weather. looked reasonable to me! haha.
BingoBoingo: Those dams are weak though. I'm talking south of the Ohio river confluence
mod6: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hennepin_Island_Hydroelectric_Plant
assbot: Hennepin Island Hydroelectric Plant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZMqhxX )
mod6: ah, yah, im sure bigger and better ones would be a good thing, at some point.
mod6: around here, and especially in southern MN & all over Iowa they have HUGE wind turbines in place.
BingoBoingo: I'm talking make 3 gorges look like Hennepin island
mod6: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power_in_Iowa
assbot: Wind power in Iowa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZMquRG )
mod6: apparently 5688 MW in '14
mod6 looks @ 3 gorges
BingoBoingo: If Bitcoin needs half of ALL the watts it's going to have to happen
mod6: oh yeah, looking at that one, is huge.
mod6: anyway, yeah, it's been on my mind.
BingoBoingo: I figure 1993 flood level presents a decent reservoir target
mod6: yeah, there will be a time when discussions will start around a project like this.
BingoBoingo: Prolly around 2035
mats: what an ecological disaster
BingoBoingo: Not a disaster, would actually solve the mine subsidence problem in a lot of areas
mats: i'm not so sure the wildlife will agree
BingoBoingo: They'll move as they tend to do.
BingoBoingo imagines ghetto wildlife relocating to Portland where they tend to be welcomed
ben_vulpes: i am now apparently engaged in an exercise to determine what the oldest version of os x is that can be beaten into supporting software development
BingoBoingo: Why X? Why not VI, VII, VIII, or IX?
BingoBoingo: The others would probably get your shop mad hipster cred
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35200 @ 0.00056664 = 19.9457 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82890 @ 0.00056682 = 46.9837 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo and his obsession with dead operating systems
ben_vulpes: in another universe i'd be entirely happy with seven.
pete_dushenski: fwiw, alleged isis pgp-gram encrypted : https://archive.is/Ro4XZ and decrypted : https://archive.is/pY9BB
assbot: CZhwuXZWAAIQskQ.jpg:large (1023x1260 pixels) ... ( http://bit.ly/1UlpL8u )
assbot: CZhxu5dWEAcfIzo.jpg:large (1023x1114 pixels) ... ( http://bit.ly/1UlpIJT )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 89695 @ 0.00056357 = 50.5494 BTC [-] {2}
pete_dushenski: gnupg v2... tsk tsk.
pete_dushenski: someone has done their 6 months of log readings
pete_dushenski: *hasn't !
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-01-2016#1384621 << looks like this part of the message is... inside the message. so not pgptron's doing. still, why ? allahusnackbar only knows, but given that they're all probably mega-crypto noobs, it's not inconceivable to imagine this note's use case, even it seems beyond retarded to (i expect) everyone here.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-01-2016 00:09:41; asciilifeform: danielpbarron: and whose pgptron prints 'Decryption....'
pete_dushenski: and i just searched for the key id listed there, neither 1650H76 nor 1658OH76 yielded any hits. but then again, why should it ? (aside from the comedic value)
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-01-2016#1384624 << for same reason our terrorism rantings and communiques are in english ?☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-01-2016 00:10:21; asciilifeform: danielpbarron: and why would message text be in english
danielpbarron: my gpg says they aren't even valid key ids
pete_dushenski: ah well then. maybe it was just another lulzy idea that was in fact a thinly veiled hatchet job. alas.
danielpbarron: i would think it's easier to make a real key and decrypt an actual message than to fake the whole thing in video editing but then again I have a dedicated gpg machine and not a video editing one. USG probably has the opposite
pete_dushenski: "first they came for isis for using pgp, but i did nothing. then they... oh wait. they couldn't so anything against isis anyways so what sort of nyooz is this!"
pete_dushenski: danielpbarron: probably ? most definitely. like 100%.
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-01-2016#1384677 << i lollered☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-01-2016 00:28:44; mircea_popescu: now a dog you can't trust!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36170 @ 0.00055724 = 20.1554 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: I'll have you know that in the cleaning I've done since last message I dusted a perfectly good machine capable of running OS 7, if only I'd plug in in and the caps haven't gone pop since October when I last plugged it in...
ben_vulpes: but will it compile boost?
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-01-2016#1385035 << this makes no sense. if your gf is a secretary and she moves from paper company (A) to another paper company (B) of the same size and just as far from home and for the same pay (but without that bitch midge from accounts payable), the paper industry will make no more "evil ghg", nor kill more fuzzy penguins or whatever it is you imagine anthropomorphised☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-01-2016 05:10:05; mats: what an ecological disaster
pete_dushenski: disneyesque animalia as. changing gruntwork jobs (which is what power generation is), ceretis paribus, doesn't matter in the slightest to the global ecological footprint. if anything, as bitcoin mining grows into even the double-digits of global power use, it will create a scarcity of electricity for non-mining uses, driving up prices in those other domains, thus decreasing less essential usage, decreasing the n
pete_dushenski: eed for so much supply, and in fact accelerating bitcoin's achievement of 51% of global supply at a ~lower~ total supply than at present.
BingoBoingo: Who needs boost when you have the full expressive power of motorola 68k assembly?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 170100 @ 0.00055483 = 94.3766 BTC [-] {3}
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: will, say, 10.4 compile boost ?
pete_dushenski: on ppc !
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: heh okay you got a laugh out of me with that
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: i determined tonight that 10.6 is entirely unuseable
pete_dushenski: http://boost.2283326.n4.nabble.com/Cross-compile-Boost-library-Thread-System-for-PowerPC-td4643105.html << anyways, answer to my own question.
assbot: Boost - Build - Cross compile Boost library (Thread, System) for PowerPC ... ( http://bit.ly/1OIT5nW )
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: With same language you can program the two best portable computers ever. The TI-89 and the TI-92
ben_vulpes: os 10 is an operating system for today, not forever
ben_vulpes: !s 100 year editor
assbot: 0 results for '100 year editor' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=100+year+editor
ben_vulpes: !s quality without a name
assbot: 0 results for 'quality without a name' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=quality+without+a+name
ben_vulpes: that's a classic, i'm a bit surprised.
pete_dushenski: well, os 11 will be i/os 11 if my convergening line estimator is accurate. so i'll stick with 10 for now :P
ben_vulpes: is that a head and shoulders or death cross or some other technical trading thing?
pete_dushenski: it's the dead steve bounce
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: There won't be an 11 or an XI. The branding isn't as good as X
ben_vulpes: haw haw haw
ben_vulpes: x11 is best x
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44241 @ 0.00055724 = 24.6529 BTC [+]
punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-01-2016#1384760 srsly☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-01-2016 01:30:26; *: asciilifeform observes that this thread has already taken up more space than the patch.
BingoBoingo: Soon on fox news: "The lead developer of Bitcoin arrested for drug charges" >> https://archive.is/y7Wjv#selection-4251.0-4251.75
assbot: Michael Toomin explains his meltdown, and the structure of Bitcoin Classic (45 min in!) : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1niRThM )
BingoBoingo: lulz from #bitcoin-otc-ratings: <gribble> Rating removed | phantomcircuit > -10 > jason | criminal, stole from coinbase
punkman: loltoomim "What languages do you work in, what's your background in CS?" "I use all languages" "You can't use all languages!" "Well I dunno, I haven't used Haskell or OCaml, but everything else I can think of..."
fluffypony: truly one of the great minds of this generation
fluffypony: clearly his language preference is BrainFuck
punkman: he's improving Coffeescript these days
deedbot-: [Qntra] Mass Ransomware Strike Hits Millions Of Indian Computers - http://qntra.net/2016/01/mass-ransomware-strike-hits-millions-of-indian-computers/
danielpbarron: ;;later tell BingoBoingo http://danielpbarron.com/isis_pgp_qntra.asc.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pfhh2H )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: ty danielpbarron
thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: this girl in MO was telling me she works at a place that forces windows use. Someone is hit with ransomware weekly.
BingoBoingo: Ah, yeah
BingoBoingo: At least
danielpbarron: someone recently asked me if i wanted to sell bitcoin to someone hit by one of those things
danielpbarron: i said no
thestringpuller: so bitcoin has directly monetized malware
BingoBoingo: best to avoid that poison pill
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: You piece is going up as soon as I harmonize some of the vocabulary.
danielpbarron: yeah please do; i can't believe it's 4 my brain is fried
thestringpuller: pre-bitcoin you'd invest in setting up botnet and then monetize the botnet. seems now just put that money into ransomware instead of the botnet.
danielpbarron: i turned down the offer to sell coin, not because of where it would go so much as because I don't know a reliable way to replentish my stock (I haven't used coinbase in a long while)
thestringpuller: danielpbarron: have you tried anyone in web of trust?
danielpbarron: i have but not recently on that one either
thestringpuller: do you use coinbr?
danielpbarron: yeah
thestringpuller: if you can get jurov euros he can get you X.EUR if you are coinbr customer. i'd inquiry with him.
danielpbarron: eeenteresting i might know a euro connect although i doubt it
BingoBoingo: Maybe just get Jurov a duffel bag full of Euros? Everyone needs a vacation sometime.
deedbot-: [Qntra] ISIS/Snowden PGP Comedy - http://qntra.net/2016/01/isissnowden-pgp-comedy/
BingoBoingo: ^ danielpbarron
BingoBoingo: The piece's saving grace is that it was short and thorough.
danielpbarron: that's my style heh
punkman: ;;nethash
gribble: 990495801.597
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: You know if you could do 10 of these 120 word things a month that would be 1200 s.qntr which are redeemable for...
BingoBoingo: Bitcoin at a market determined rate
thestringpuller: !t m s.qntr
assbot: [MPEX:S.QNTR] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: / / ( shares, BTC), 30D: 0.0003073 / 0.00031877 / 0.00035095 (10852 shares, 3.46 BTC)
thestringpuller: bids are at 23k satoshi right now
thestringpuller: ;;calc 0.00023000 * 1200
gribble: 0.276
thestringpuller: mpex investors seem to love paying qntra contributors, so it's doing something right.
BingoBoingo: Maybe next year or five years from now we get a revenue in excess of hosting that allows for dividends? Who knows? The future is full of mysteries!
thestringpuller: well ad's prove to have high CTR, just need a little conversions sprinkled on that and who knows
thestringpuller: ^- the one that was on qntra sometime last year
thestringpuller: iirc had higher click-thru than most of web
BingoBoingo: I dunno how much to bank on that. The web is ever changing
thestringpuller: digital marekting will likely implode before the next decade. look at the overvaluation of coindesk and coin telegraph where the revenue is entirely that.
thestringpuller: qntra's future will reveal itself in due time. it's quickly growing, and still young.
BingoBoingo: Well now Coindesk lives as this undead thing entirely subsumed to Barry Silber and operated by his mouthpiece Ryan 'TwoBitIdiot' Selkis
BingoBoingo: Anyways for people who care about the NFL chain (maybe BitBet) A Denver Broncos versus Carolina Panthers superbowl was mined.
thestringpuller: i haven't seen a broncos superbowl since i was elementary school methinks
BingoBoingo: Same here.
BingoBoingo: Looks like Brady fell apart in this likely last Brady/Peyton Manning matchup. Which is surprising because Peyton himself is barely alive for charitable definitions of alive.
thestringpuller: lol i remember when the falcons played the broncos in the superbowl, and we actually thought we stood a chance.
thestringpuller: lol manning was drafted when I was in middle school
thestringpuller: my how time flies.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25113 @ 0.00055591 = 13.9606 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: http://i.imgur.com/5kUV5d3.jpg << dunno if joke or real. "Lets turn bitcoin development over to coinbase!" look at what democracy gets you people. srsly, wtf.
thestringpuller: already selling out to corporations and they didn't even need lobbyist this time!
BingoBoingo: lol, Or Coinbase just signing all those votes
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 101500 @ 0.0005558 = 56.4137 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: !up p15
BingoBoingo: In other decentralization news from the mines https://torrentfreak.com/oldest-torrent-is-still-being-shared-after-4419-days-160124/
assbot: World's Oldest Torrent Is Still Being Shared After 4,419 Days - TorrentFreak ... ( http://bit.ly/1QnCQgE )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78230 @ 0.00055668 = 43.5491 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 673 @ 0.00267606 = 1.801 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49175 @ 0.00055376 = 27.2311 BTC [-] {2}
jurov: danielpbarron(and other folks in my WoT): we're using transferwise, works quick and swell so far. For N euro that arrives to my account you get N/1.02 x.eur, discount possible if you can commit to schedule.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 115505 @ 0.00055668 = 64.2993 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42700 @ 0.00055714 = 23.7899 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64574 @ 0.00055331 = 35.7294 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27550 @ 0.00055283 = 15.2305 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: !up pi|
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-01-2016#1385000 << not a bad idea.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-01-2016 04:47:39; *: BingoBoingo once he completes the re-reading list would like to publish a book, or at least a lecture series title "The Will To Hodl"
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-01-2016#1385027 << cool, 5GW over their lifetime will be just enough to cover the energy cost of hauling in replacements.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-01-2016 05:04:25; mod6: apparently 5688 MW in '14
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30600 @ 0.00055271 = 16.9129 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31900 @ 0.00055775 = 17.7922 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19399 @ 0.00055775 = 10.8198 BTC [+]
punkman: http://www.activistpost.com/2016/01/flint-residents-told-that-their-children-could-be-taken-away-if-they-dont-pay-for-citys-poison-water.html
assbot: Flint Residents Told That Their Children Could Be Taken Away If They Don’t Pay For City's Poison Water ... ( http://bit.ly/1nJqdTN )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29322 @ 0.00055988 = 16.4168 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: hopefuly taken away to a new prison built in a neighbouring town ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44450 @ 0.00056168 = 24.9667 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100400 @ 0.00055576 = 55.7983 BTC [-] {3}
deedbot-: [Trilema] Here's where you forget about "wind power" as an alternative source of power. - http://trilema.com/2016/heres-where-you-forget-about-wind-power-as-an-alternative-source-of-power/
punkman: https://twitter.com/internetofshit/status/691592396526718976
asciilifeform: http://www.anagram.com/jcrap << l0ltr0nic
assbot: The Journal of Craptology Home Page ... ( http://bit.ly/1nJzHOP )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19284 @ 0.00056227 = 10.8428 BTC [+] {2}
punkman: https://medium.com/@DonRumsfeld/at-83-i-decided-to-develop-an-app-dadd4e53d342 ahaha
assbot: At 83 I decided to develop an app — Medium ... ( http://bit.ly/1nJApf3 )
asciilifeform: punkman: lulzy. i played what appears to be this game as a boy.
asciilifeform: (and i find it very strange that an adult would play a solitaire, it seems like a serious symptom of 'has no theorems to prove')
punkman: popular with office drones
asciilifeform: also from the link it looks as if he 'produced' it rather than actually wrote anything
asciilifeform: mega-unsurprise.
punkman: I also don't get why i's on medium
asciilifeform: as far as i can tell, it is exactly 'tumblr' but hasn't yet been cemented in reputation for hosting rabid pheminists etc
asciilifeform: and therefore fashionable.
punkman: why is the journal of craptology full of song videos?
asciilifeform: ask it.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-01-2016#1385180 << i find it interesting that this (entirely plausible, i am directly familiar with an almost identical case involving sewers) incident is only reported in a rag which also covers 'chemtrails'☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-01-2016 13:22:22; punkman: http://www.activistpost.com/2016/01/flint-residents-told-that-their-children-could-be-taken-away-if-they-dont-pay-for-citys-poison-water.html
punkman: the gifts of ASN1 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1300237
assbot: Bug 1300237 – CVE-2016-2053 kernel: Kernel panic and system lockup by triggering BUG_ON() in public_key_verify_signature() ... ( http://bit.ly/1nJFPGR )
fluffypony: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZjTF6SUYAAHGs2.png
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1nJFTXa )
asciilifeform: punkman: ahahaha use moar usg standardz!
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> mega-unsurprise. << this "everyone can do it - you could be next - make 10 gazillion renting out the space inside your nose" narrative must be driven!!1
mircea_popescu: <punkman> I also don't get why i's on medium << because that's what altman's qntra is called.
asciilifeform: in what sense is it a qntra ?
asciilifeform: is nyt a qntra? volkischer beobachter ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform just like the nigger-death of a naive white libtard is only covered by rags that also cover all sorts of other race insanities.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43500 @ 0.00055205 = 24.0142 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in the sense everyone's mp. aspirational sense.
mircea_popescu: http://www.math.pacificu.edu/~emmons/JofUR/ << heh.
jurov: http://www.explo.yt/alf_us.jpg << asciilifeform
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1nJMrFe )
mircea_popescu: lol
asciilifeform: l0lz
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-01-2016#1385046 << what's the difference between that universe and this ? (entirely innocent quesiton, i never used os-apple)☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-01-2016 05:49:50; ben_vulpes: in another universe i'd be entirely happy with seven.
asciilifeform: 7 was a product of the actual apple co. (vs rebranded 'next')
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22950 @ 0.00055296 = 12.6904 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: i.e. not a unix
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-01-2016#1385056 << i beg your pardon, "H" ?☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-01-2016 06:20:57; pete_dushenski: and i just searched for the key id listed there, neither 1650H76 nor 1658OH76 yielded any hits. but then again, why should it ? (aside from the comedic value)
asciilifeform: H.
mircea_popescu: what h.
asciilifeform: on the same planet where gpg prints 'Decrypting......'
mircea_popescu: is this some new utf ?
asciilifeform: nope.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform watch that some towelhead with a quart of brie between his legs stole some code and did the usual "i am 15 yo coder and i can replace strings" thing to it.
asciilifeform: and H ?
mircea_popescu: in principle you can fuck up base64.
mircea_popescu: satoshi did...
mircea_popescu: make it base-snackbar, why not.
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/cL3TM << moar via qntra piece
assbot: Edward Snowden on Twitter: "Journos: The #ISIS video's "encrypted email" is confirmed fake. If any official responds as if it's real, push back. https://t.co/fKHAAk1SAa" ... ( http://bit.ly/1OJDfJO )
mircea_popescu: "is confirmed". who confirmed ?
mircea_popescu: this is like "i am officially the king of caspiar"
punkman: someone on twitter extracted some valid partial gpg packet that said DBC2E82BB763CF80
asciilifeform: all this aside, the thing is entirely indistinguishable from the most idiotic imaginable fake.
mircea_popescu: this much is true.
asciilifeform: wake me up when they have captured nato soldiers write the pubkey out in the sand with the blood of own severed hands.
asciilifeform: on camera.
mircea_popescu: yeah, that's totally what i did o.O
asciilifeform: and then same, layed out using heads.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu had the tits thing. similar !
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-01-2016#1385071 << this is nonsense wut.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-01-2016 07:08:57; pete_dushenski: disneyesque animalia as. changing gruntwork jobs (which is what power generation is), ceretis paribus, doesn't matter in the slightest to the global ecological footprint. if anything, as bitcoin mining grows into even the double-digits of global power use, it will create a scarcity of electricity for non-mining uses, driving up prices in those other domains, thus decreasing less essential usage, decr
mircea_popescu: first off birds don't just move. they're more adverse to living the swamp they for no good reason call home than alf is. and for the other, demand doesn't create scarcity, that whole branch's not even wrong.
mircea_popescu: assbot: Michael Toomin explains his meltdown, and the structure of Bitcoin Classic (45 min in!) << dude, i don't care if he gives away clinton's hairy snatch and the secret of immortality 45 minutes in. who the fuck has the time for this sorta thing.
mircea_popescu: anyway. let us remind at this juncture that various blathering imbeciles, such as that dude from coinbase, or that dude from the nsa, or that other dude from the nsa, or that other derp "supported" this raging lunacy.
mircea_popescu: ask them next you see them at one of their inept "conferences", sprouting with unwarranted cockyness whatev er bullshit, what happened of their support for this ?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo ". The petrified paper pushers, afraid that actual strong cryptography might catch on among the cattle caste, has sent their favorite stooge to discredit the event." << have sent
mircea_popescu: also spurious paragraph break after 1st note
mircea_popescu: aaand in other news, http://56.media.tumblr.com/93f0434c32aede5c04a5fa5560aca73e/tumblr_nha9j7eqJU1s233qio1_1280.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1nJUJgf )
punkman: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZghdXeUUAAISoQ.jpg:large
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1nJVZzX )
mircea_popescu: http://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/telecom/internet/fear-and-loathing-in-the-bitcoin-world << bitcoin's formal governing body is amused at the wanna-be's posturing.
assbot: Bitcoin Needs (Gasp!) Formal Governance - IEEE Spectrum ... ( http://bit.ly/1nJXez4 )
mircea_popescu: what is ieee again ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: american standards org.
mod6: mircea_popescu: hey thanks for working up the math on the wind power. yeah, looks like that was pretty moronic.
mod6: especially if you can get 4x as much from hydroelectric
mod6: i think one thing thats interesting about alternatives to dams or nuclear is that its less of a central target for sabotage or attack.
mod6: i dunno.
mod6: hmmm.
mod6: more study required.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55100 @ 0.0005523 = 30.4317 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29000 @ 0.00055191 = 16.0054 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: ;;later tell mod6 http://trilema.com/2014/advanced-wot-course-how-the-wot-is-attacked-and-how-it-defends-itself/
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mod6: oh boy
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109536 @ 0.00055189 = 60.4518 BTC [-] {3}
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: re: toomim meltdown << it was hilarious to listen to, cuz he is just like "I'ma stoned. Hue hue hue. I developed consider.it and we gonna use it to fix bitcoin governance problems, cuz like democracy is the shit. And it like works."
thestringpuller: This is why you shouldn't give penniless hippies any nice things ever, cause they will break those nice things.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47720 @ 0.00055296 = 26.3873 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94500 @ 0.00055189 = 52.1536 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66184 @ 0.00055496 = 36.7295 BTC [+] {2}
adlai: ;;nethash
gribble: 1001325385.12
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59400 @ 0.00055159 = 32.7644 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38398 @ 0.00055622 = 21.3577 BTC [+] {3}
asciilifeform: 'This one, however, is different from the rest. The person throwing dirt over the coffin last week was not an outsider, as has most often been the case. It was not some mainstream economist who just “doesn’t get it.” It was not a misinformed journalist fishing for clicks. It was Mike Hearn, a former Google developer, the guy who wrote the first java implementation of Bitcoin. He’s a regular presence at conferences and
asciilifeform: a tireless educator of Bitcoin novices. And his most passionate vituperations were aimed at the people he is now leaving behind. Bitcoin failed, he wrote, “because the community has failed.”'
asciilifeform: this is just precious.
mircea_popescu: mod6> more study required. << yeah, up until a spinning blade worth 50 tons comes off the fucking 200 foot tall mount.
mircea_popescu: that'll be some pretty epic action movie.
mircea_popescu: "MegaDreidel on the Highway - 7"
asciilifeform: iirc the trend is towards large farms of small propellers
mircea_popescu: hearn is more of an outsider than most outsiders.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i gave a rather low-end typical.
mircea_popescu: ge sold 100's of k's of that one.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the simple proof that wind is purely for show - so that soviet citizen sees it and is impressed with the usg, just like the red army red square parades of otherwise useless missiles - rather than for energy is that the one place where you should have them (tierra del fuego) doesn't have them.
mircea_popescu: by the time you've run out of everything ELSE that has better wind and are putting them in MN the world is half-full of wind turbines.
asciilifeform: there is another interpretation that does not actually contradict this one
asciilifeform: which is that photovoltaic and wind are preparations for what orlov called 'boutique economy'
mircea_popescu: meanwhile, the representational needs of the usg are exactly highest in MN as opposed to say alaska. because THAT is the true fronteer atm, separating the bundys from the bahamases.
asciilifeform: where there is no grid
mircea_popescu: ie, survivalist enough to pull a bundy, populated enough to really hurt if it does.
asciilifeform: but titled nobility have something like a 20th century existence
mircea_popescu: this is rank nonsense.
mircea_popescu: electricity DOES NOT work without the grid.
mircea_popescu: this neatly mirrors our previous discussion, where you were holding that "all civilisation depends on mass market". that much is false.
asciilifeform: entirely without - does not.
mircea_popescu: however, smaller parts of it - such as electricity, DO in fact depend on grid.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 106827 @ 0.00056238 = 60.0774 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: sorta like "carnot engine does not work without atmosphere". in fact that's exactly it.
asciilifeform: but the preparations are for a 'grid lite', a la pyongyang
asciilifeform: where there is grid, for 2-3 hrs/day
asciilifeform: for folks to watch propaganda channel during.
mircea_popescu: without a diffuse network to lose into, electricity is a hair raising proposition
mircea_popescu: seems improbable, but what am i gonna say.
mircea_popescu: no political system survives that sort of "4 hours a day" bs.
asciilifeform: why not ?
asciilifeform: plenty of turd world pissholes 'function' on 0 hrs.
mircea_popescu: because my slaves obey me 24/7, and that leaves 20hours/day unoccupied for the cattle.
asciilifeform: and pyongyang is still there
mircea_popescu: they'll migrate to the system of full occupancy.
mircea_popescu: pyongyang is still there at incredible sino-usg expenditure.
mircea_popescu: who's gonna do that for the us, martians ?
mircea_popescu: nobody cares enough.
mircea_popescu: you'll notice that "third world pissholes" don't function in the sense of "person mp doesn't like vacations there".
asciilifeform: at any rate, my observation was re: what usg ~thinks~ it is doing when supporting crackpot energy wunderwaffen
asciilifeform: rather than the likely result
asciilifeform: the economics of wunderwaffen are a fascinating mixture of crackpottery, legit invention, and lunatic desperation
asciilifeform: i've been reading a ru treatise on mines (the kind that undermined castle walls, and the kind that explode, rather than the kind where dwarves toil)
asciilifeform: and there was an interesting bit about how germany switched to producing the obsolete and suicidally unstable trinitrophenol in 1944
asciilifeform: instead of civilized brissant explosives (e.g., trinitrotoluene, hexagen, etc)
asciilifeform: historians like to expound on the 'sexy' wunderwaffen, rather than this.
asciilifeform: but wunderwaffen-warfare is ~largely~ this kind of thing.
asciilifeform: and we are likely to see recognizable riffs on this theme as usg rockets along its path to the bunker of '45.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> that'll be some pretty epic action movie. << haha, yah. oh well.
asciilifeform: desperation, cheap hacks, disaster, rinse & repeat
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 89650 @ 0.00055143 = 49.4357 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 286750 @ 0.00055118 = 158.0509 BTC [-] {6}
mod6: MN has 3 nuclear powerplants apparently.
mod6: Must have figured it was a cheaper alternative. *shrug* They might have some others that run on coal or oil even? Not sure.
mod6: 4 Coal, 3 Hydroelectric, 1 Natgas, 3 Nuclear and 2 windfarm
mod6: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Power_stations_in_Minnesota
assbot: Category:Power stations in Minnesota - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZNCVMY )
mod6: i can see the natgas one from my office.
thestringpuller: i love natgas
thestringpuller: powered by farts
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70154 @ 0.00055929 = 39.2364 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93250 @ 0.00055088 = 51.3696 BTC [-] {2}
jurov: hydropower means large lagoons that tend to acumulate toxic deposits that noone wants to touch. coal and nuclear mean radioactive toxic waste, too. while defunct windmill means piece of perfectly usable structural alloy.
kakobrekla: the mud that the hydro dams collect is not toxic but much needed nutrients for plants down the stream
jurov: .. in the rare cases there is no industry upstream
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 388 @ 0.00271842 = 1.0547 BTC [+] {2}
kakobrekla: well they would still get that in either case
jurov: since the 1950s the hydropower potential of Vah river in Slovakia was almost completely developed and exactly this happened, lakes brim-full of stuff noone knows how to dispose
jurov: while contributing measly 1% to nation's electrcity supply
jurov: (and another 3% thanks to Danube)
kakobrekla: newer dams are actually built in a way that flushes that sediments periodically, they fucked it up on the Nile tho.
punkman: http://dpaste.com/19JPBPT slightly relevant
assbot: dpaste: 19JPBPT ... ( http://bit.ly/1OK8btr )
jurov: we are 53% nuclear, and another 2 blocks are in development, <joke>it should result in cheapest electricity around</joke>
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72850 @ 0.00054992 = 40.0617 BTC [-] {3}
PeterL: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-01-2016#1385014 << hydro power is proportional to water drop, you can't really get much power out of a flat river like missississippi☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-01-2016 05:00:08; BingoBoingo: mod6: When do you think it would make sense to dam the Mississippi river to generate hydroelectric power for mining?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 108700 @ 0.0005593 = 60.7959 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> but wunderwaffen-warfare is ~largely~ this kind of thing. << quite very much so. and tlp's "frantic activity as a cover for impotence" explains a lot of it.
asciilifeform: see also http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=04-03-2015#1040314 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 04-03-2015 02:43:04; asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: cutting out completely looks rather like this: http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/jp_tankhunters/fig1_japanese_lunge_mine_antitank.jpg
mircea_popescu: anyway. picric acid at least is more stable than guncotton, the golden standard of "oops, we fired our cannon there goes the ship" application
asciilifeform: jp lost more than one ship to own 'shimoza' (trinitrophenol) shell magazines
asciilifeform: and ru navy had only picrin (on account of tnp having killed their top armaments designer, when he experimented personally) and to this is often attributed the loss in 1907
mircea_popescu: jurov this slander re hydro is not unlike saying sex leads to saggy boobs.
jurov: ?
PeterL: http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/jp_tankhunters/fig1_japanese_lunge_mine_antitank.jpg << is that a shaped charge spear?
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1U7fiNx )
mircea_popescu: <jurov> since the 1950s the hydropower potential of Vah river in Slovakia was almost completely developed and exactly this happened, lakes brim-full of stuff noone knows how to dispose << this may be, but on the other hand romania exists as an industrial power rather than an argentinian farm shithole strictly because of massive hydro power developments post ww2
asciilifeform: PeterL: yes. also known as the 'lunge mine'. it had no delay fuse at all!
mircea_popescu: sex leads to saggy boobs : saggy boobs are seen in all females after 20-30 years of fucking, if not earlier.
asciilifeform: there is an interesting clip somewhere on the net of the vietnamese army, some time in the era of ho chi minh, marching around proudly with these (presumably captured from jp forces in ww2)
asciilifeform: the message, presumably, being 'we will die gloriously'
PeterL: I guess the question is, does it work?
mircea_popescu: not by itself, no.
asciilifeform: PeterL: dunno, never tried personally
asciilifeform: if you can get close enough to the tank - any tank, even modern one - it will work great...
PeterL: and user is not harmed by device?
asciilifeform: the pegs are standoffs - shaped charge requires them
asciilifeform: user - dies.
asciilifeform: i thought this was pretty clear.
mircea_popescu: not modern ones, at least not the ones with the active armor additions.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sufficiently large shaped charge blows a hole through whatever.
mircea_popescu: not so.
PeterL: I dunno, I'm not that familliar with shaped charges
jurov: yes it helped romania. how does it invalidate the argument?
mircea_popescu: through whatever passive.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in any case that's what the ~second~ hit is for
mircea_popescu: jurov the saggy tits thing invalidates the 'argument' such as it is.
mircea_popescu: the bit of history just mopped off whatever surviving bits left around
jurov: romania has pointy tits. and?
mircea_popescu: uh. are you being purposefully thick ?
mircea_popescu: the hydro plant has exactly nothing to do with pollutants upstream.
jurov: i think you are
jurov: on one hand, you say hydro was developed because of industry
mircea_popescu: so on one hand your argument is logically unsound, and on the other hand the benefit of hydro is certain.
jurov: on other hand you handwave the pollution away
mircea_popescu: equating pollution and industry is not unlike equating homosexuality and poor hygiene.
jurov: yeees? where clean industry exists?
jurov: in your head.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 98250 @ 0.00054927 = 53.9658 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: how do you define "clean" ? if you meaqn absolutely clean, not only does not such industry exist, but in point of fact no such hygiene exists either.
jurov: that was not my point. i wanted to say, there are cubic kilometers of liabilities likely to happen
mircea_popescu: well, look at it the other way : maybe it finally provides the much needed impetuus to force the polluters upstream to clean up their act.
jurov: maybe.
mircea_popescu: if there's nothing but textile mill on the veh, textile mill gets to poison the river.
mircea_popescu: if there's both mill and hydro plant, well... finally ecoregulations can be forced on the mill. and if it doesn't like it... fuck you, move to germany.
mircea_popescu: we'll live off of selling electricity to you there.
asciilifeform: http://trilema.com/2016/heres-where-you-forget-about-wind-power-as-an-alternative-source-of-power/#comment-116338
assbot: Here's where you forget about "wind power" as an alternative source of power. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1VlkqOC )
mircea_popescu: anyway, re nuclear. while it is dirty in a certain way, it has an advantage nothing else does : it would work just as well with the sun turned off. this is a big deal, fundamentally. whether it means anything in practice or not... well...
mircea_popescu: (before you say "so do fossils" - think again. where do you get the oxygen ?)
mircea_popescu: contrary to aqll the brouhaha at the time, about how "mankind has found the way to end itself" bla bla, nothing could be further from the truth. nuclear power provides humanity a hard guarantee against large scale catastrophe that no other life has, nor could have without thios particular tech.
mircea_popescu: it quite literally represents security from thermodynamics, in a way very similar to how the bombs were marketed at the time to represent "Security from the enemies".
mircea_popescu: (and yes this has been tested in practice, it's not at all theoretical. nuclear subs are more important for THIS reason than whatever justified their existence at the time.)
jurov: 99% of nuclear is unusable without ample access to cooling water
mircea_popescu: sure. doesn't do much for this discussion.
mircea_popescu: if the sun does turn off, you'll have more ice than you'll know what to do with.
mod6: <+PeterL> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-01-2016#1385014 << hydro power is proportional to water drop, you can't really get much power out of a flat river like missississippi << very true. the one we were discussing yesterday is at St. Anthonys Falls. Which apparently helped the city long ago get its start. Its not very big, and since they put in the dam, apparenlty this has eroded the origin☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-01-2016 05:00:08; BingoBoingo: mod6: When do you think it would make sense to dam the Mississippi river to generate hydroelectric power for mining?
mod6: al falls away and now is back further?
mod6: Need to look this up quick.
mircea_popescu: also - the way nuclear is dirty is very peculiar. pollution in the sense of poison - kills everyone. pollution in the sense of nuclear leakeage - does not. it just shortens lifespan and increases the angle of attack at DNA research.
jurov: don't forget geothermal, better accessible and will keep working for millions of years
mircea_popescu: it does not present an actual species threat for any species.
mircea_popescu: and yeah, geothermal. in fact that'll be the competition in case of new ice age. nuclear vs geothermal.
mircea_popescu: would make a pretty splendid sf novel too.
mircea_popescu: (all this talk re new ice age is quite on point, incidentally. the crazed us cultists of pseudoscience are loudly proclaiming a narrative bluntly contradictory to the data. altogether more likely we're headed for cool.)
mod6: maybe im not quite right about the erosion, anyway: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Anthony_Falls
assbot: Saint Anthony Falls - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1VlnlHe )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform re the picric acid... going anhydrous phenol + fuming sulphuric acid to get hydroxyphenylsulfonic acid and then fuming nitric acid on top of that... should be a fun little experiment :D
asciilifeform: allahsnackbar.jpg
mircea_popescu: just keep it cool, bruh.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52800 @ 0.00054862 = 28.9671 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 99032 @ 0.00055727 = 55.1876 BTC [+] {5}
thestringpuller: ben_vulpes: I'm applying for a job in Portland, Oregon.
thestringpuller: We'll see how this goes!
punkman: https://z.cash/ ZookoCoin
assbot: Zcash - All coins are created equal. ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZO2BJm )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60668 @ 0.00056117 = 34.0451 BTC [+] {3}
asciilifeform: zerocoin again ?
asciilifeform: https://z.cash/team.html << usg rogue's gallery
assbot: Zcash - Our Team ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZO2QUR )
asciilifeform: incl. our old 'friends', roger ver, and pantera co
thestringpuller: oh roger verified, is dat nigga even in WoT?
asciilifeform: https://github.com/scipr-lab/libsnark << the crypto lib the thing rides on, in case anybody gives half a shit
assbot: scipr-lab/libsnark - C++ - GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1nuy1ch )
asciilifeform: (i can't bring myself to)
asciilifeform: holy fuck the academitardism.
asciilifeform: i am dealing with something quite similar on the other side of my desk, but folks ~pay~ on that side
punkman: https://github.com/Electric-Coin-Company/zcash/tree/zc.v0.11.2.latest/depends/packages
assbot: zcash/depends/packages at zc.v0.11.2.latest · Electric-Coin-Company/zcash · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1nuyb38 )
asciilifeform: for fucks sake.
asciilifeform: why does it need ~both~ qt and x11 ?
punkman: why not
punkman: does PRB need dbus btw?
asciilifeform: no idea
asciilifeform: wouldn't surprise me if it did
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47800 @ 0.00056244 = 26.8846 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11614 @ 0.00056117 = 6.5174 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> also spurious paragraph break after 1st note << both fixed
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> ... << dude, i don't care if he gives away clinton's hairy snatch and the secret of immortality 45 minutes in. who the fuck has the time for this sorta thing. << Reddit commnets were lulzy. Didn't sonsider anyone would try listening or operate a browser capable of listening.
BingoBoingo: <jurov> hydropower means large lagoons that tend to acumulate toxic deposits that noone wants to touch. coal and nuclear mean radioactive toxic waste, too. while defunct windmill means piece of perfectly usable structural alloy. << How is this different from the Mississippi river at present?
jurov: i am no mississippi expert
BingoBoingo: peterL, Just gotta raise the river then
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73500 @ 0.00055994 = 41.1556 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: jurov: Every city's sewer and all the various indistry along it constantly pump weird shit into it.
jurov: BingoBoingo: it's different when it's continuously mixed and when it's allowed to settle down and concentrate
BingoBoingo: Well it already settles down and concentrates in the Gulf of Mexico. This would just move where it happens.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 117590 @ 0.00056235 = 66.1267 BTC [+] {5}
jurov: In the Gulf of Mexico there's little change it will spill and kill everything downstream
BingoBoingo: Sure, in the gulf of Mexico it just makes big dead zones. Moving the mess upstream preserves tropical beaches while flooding ghetto
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36046 @ 0.00056251 = 20.2762 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: In other lulz https://archive.is/LY9is and https://archive.is/W9HlJ << Delicious tears
assbot: "Give Coinbase Full Control Over Bitcoin Development" has consensus! : btc ... ( http://bit.ly/20po8dA )
assbot: Bitcoin Classic is being attacked, have you noticed? : btc ... ( http://bit.ly/20po918 )
thestringpuller: thos were pretty lulzy
BingoBoingo: https://sli.mg/a/uG7lU9
assbot: Fatty thinks flying is a right, doesn't understand why its being "discriminated" against ... ( http://bit.ly/20poKA5 )
mircea_popescu: heh look at all the kids that don't know better / derps nobody heard about coralled by pantera and advised by gavin & schmuckteam.
mircea_popescu: <punkman> does PRB need dbus btw? << it should, really.
mircea_popescu: <BingoBoingo> peterL, Just gotta raise the river then << ideally, put it on a jack. "maybe i'll come down, maybe i won't. don't mess up my beer, man!"
thestringpuller: wasn't pantera a 90's metal band?
BingoBoingo: Well, if the dam is tall enough the Mississippi will fill up a good basin. Just gotta make 1993 flood the low water mark
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: pantera 'capital' too.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54200 @ 0.00056257 = 30.4913 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: ok the 2nd BingoBoingo link was kinda lulzy.
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=02-12-2014#942641 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 02-12-2014 20:47:02; BingoBoingo: Indictment: http://qntra.net/2014/12/changetip-raises-3-5-million-lead-by-pantera-capital/
pete_dushenski: etc.
mircea_popescu: in other news that are nevertheless more relevant to bitcoin than reddit will ever be, http://40.media.tumblr.com/21e7e3dfeb3aabebd8139cbb1937a3f8/tumblr_ni8bn65F111s5t2ojo1_500.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/20pph4T )
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: He's trying to make joke about the band Pantera. RIP Dimebag
pete_dushenski used to listen to pantera, the band, a bit.
asciilifeform just watched the master toggle on a 25 y.o. under-monitor surge protector thingie ~explode~ in a shower of sparks
BingoBoingo: cool
BingoBoingo: Happens from time to time
asciilifeform: not so cool, apparently these are no longer made
BingoBoingo: Surge protecting part is a wear item
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: nobody ever gives a fuck about the oxide varistor, it does exactly nothing
asciilifeform: it's the switches that make that thing spiffy
asciilifeform: (it was the horizontal kind with individual togglers for each mains plug)
BingoBoingo: Oh
jurov: http://www.ethereumpyramid.com/ forget systemd. prb must support this!
assbot: Ethereum Pyramid Contract ... ( http://bit.ly/20ppCVi )
asciilifeform: re: earlier thread, now that zooko is coopted, and previously chaum, and who else,
asciilifeform: how many cryptographers even left ?
asciilifeform: bernstein ?
asciilifeform: (who exactly ~was~ zooko? known for anything other than 'triangle' aphorism ?)
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: random question: what is your favorite video game?
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: 'video' ?
thestringpuller: yes as in thing you put in computer with flashing lights and stuff that you play for fun
asciilifeform: ah so computer
BingoBoingo: !b 4
assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/311FY0C.txt )
asciilifeform: ('video' where i live traditionally refers to game consoles that plug into tv)
thestringpuller: those too
asciilifeform: those i never had
thestringpuller: aha. I imagine you would be good at Real Time Strategy games.
asciilifeform: eh rts is a mouse-clicking contest
thestringpuller: Although I don't know anyone that can compete with the Koreans in Starcraft
asciilifeform: i much liked, e.g., civ1
thestringpuller: i can see you liking sid meiers' stuff
polarbeard: starcraft is more like real time chess, I'd say
polarbeard: and *also* a clicking contest
asciilifeform pictures realtime chess
thestringpuller: clicking contest only happens in micro.
asciilifeform: see also http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=08-08-2015#1230700 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 08-08-2015 06:50:36; asciilifeform: reminds me of how, allegedly, a 'go' board and its stones made their way to leonhard euler. and he concluded that the game was played by tossing'em into the cavity at the bottom between the legs
thestringpuller: you have to keep the economy healthier than your enemies so you can outproduce them.
polarbeard: which is 60% of winning on starcraft
polarbeard: battling correctly is even more important than correct resource management
polarbeard: it allows you to have any chance against a zerg rush
thestringpuller: Can be. but if you win battle an opponent is still out producing, you can sway battle.
polarbeard: that's why, I say battling correctly is more important but not much more
thestringpuller: Best counter to zerg rush walling off
thestringpuller: the resources zerg has to put into a rush usually puts them at a defecit in mid game
polarbeard: best counter to zerg rush is correct drone battling
thestringpuller: only sometimes. cauze I can get a zealot to pop out within 1 minute of game
polarbeard: but zealot rush sucks against other race's rush
thestringpuller: you don't rush with zealots you stand guard. protoss is extremely good at defense.
polarbeard: marines will shot him dead from the distance
polarbeard: yes, but zealots are not ready when zerglings are
thestringpuller: 1 zealot can take out about 4 zerglings
thestringpuller: 2 can take out about 9
polarbeard: after the zerglings killed all the protos drones
thestringpuller: it's good form to put 1 cannon behind mineral field for rush
thestringpuller: which doesn't cap your resources in building zealots
polarbeard: you can't go for zealots and cannons and resist a zerg rush
BingoBoingo: https://i.imgur.com/OC3VflB.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1PgDGfX )
polarbeard: if the map allows it, you may go for cannons and almost surely kill the rush, otherwise you better move those zealots damn well, as you move the drones out of the way
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50150 @ 0.00056258 = 28.2134 BTC [+]
thestringpuller: polarbeard: I probably need to watch more replays.
thestringpuller: I'm still new to SC2. I'm a WC3 player mostly. Was okay at SC but not any good by any means.
polarbeard: my very best friend is a top player, we played together since the beginning, but he became incredibly good and I stopped playing :)
polarbeard: I actually was referring to SC and SC brood wars
polarbeard: I have no idea of the SC2 mechanics
polarbeard: it probably got shittier/more complex/less fun/more spectacular
polarbeard: idk
BingoBoingo: BURNSIDE https://archive.is/Jt2kk
assbot: Coinbase denies users access to their account records, prevents users from doing their taxes. : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1PgENMJ )
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-01-2016#1385534 << 10 seconds and 5 seconds / move variants got quite popular.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-01-2016 21:09:29; *: asciilifeform pictures realtime chess
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-01-2016#1385558 << fuck you, go lose weight before you do anything else.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-01-2016 21:14:47; BingoBoingo: https://i.imgur.com/OC3VflB.jpg
mircea_popescu: us "universities" should absoluely put bmi on the list of quals.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Standard in chess now is usually 5 or 10 seconds every move before time start coming off the main game clock.
mircea_popescu: they're shit by now anyway, least they could do is "sorry hon, you're 20 lbs over maximum, can't have college degree"
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo back when i still had a faint interest it was iirc 60 mins for 60 moves.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Yeah, now with the digital clocks they just do a time delay.
thestringpuller: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/42n7r0/how_to_sybil_attack_bitcoinclassicconsiderit_with/ << LOL. The Toomim's are getting hit with Sybil attacks now.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94900 @ 0.00056549 = 53.665 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56450 @ 0.00055808 = 31.5036 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: either that or redditards learned a new word from yest's ba log.
ben_vulpes: thestringpuller: with whom?
thestringpuller: ben_vulpes: simple.com
thestringpuller: i'm going to go work for the banks!
ben_vulpes: good people over ther.
ben_vulpes: any idea what department?
thestringpuller: I'm applying to engineering. They just have general listings. So we'll see how it goes.
ben_vulpes: gl
ben_vulpes: i'll buy you a beer and a blunt after your interview
thestringpuller: If I get to the interview process. I have no connections inside the company so i'm just a rando applying to the company.
PeterL: <BingoBoingo> peterL, Just gotta raise the river then << this works in narrow canyons, not so much on plains. You gonna build a 100 mile wide dam?
thestringpuller: ben_vulpes: but yea if I do get that far I'll take you up on that.
danielpbarron: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZlj99KUsAAKyaO.jpg:large << 'ass'ets from a twatter follower of mine
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1PgHoqb )
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-01-2016#1385577 << iirc they used to have this at mit☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-01-2016 21:29:48; mircea_popescu: they're shit by now anyway, least they could do is "sorry hon, you're 20 lbs over maximum, can't have college degree"
asciilifeform: but at any rate hardly anybody gets fat in uni
asciilifeform: (this would require food)
pete_dushenski: danielpbarron: notbad
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: everyone gets fat at uni ? "freshman 15"
asciilifeform: wut
thestringpuller: that's not real.
pete_dushenski: too busy to eat well and exercise because of studying
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95000 @ 0.00056778 = 53.9391 BTC [+] {2}
pete_dushenski: it's very real
thestringpuller: usually it's the girls who get fat when they stop caring.
thestringpuller: had an ex who gained like 40 pounds during her duration in school
thestringpuller: cuz too lazy to go to gym
BingoBoingo: <PeterL> <BingoBoingo> peterL, Just gotta raise the river then << this works in narrow canyons, not so much on plains. You gonna build a 100 mile wide dam? << What else. Lots of ghetto to cover
PeterL: from BingoBoingo link to fat rant: "the look of horror that a thin, cis woman flashed me when she realized that she'd be sitting next to me" << What, a gay chick is going to be excited to cuddle up with fatty chunks for a couple hours? (and wtf is this text in image crap, can't even copy/paste!)
BingoBoingo: PeterL: It is a defect of their culture
PeterL: plus, this writing style really grates on me. I feel like I would hate her even if she was not fat.
thestringpuller: it's not fat it's curvy
PeterL: there is curvy, and fat. curvy is nice, fat is disgusting.
thestringpuller: i kno right. lets clean da folds!
thestringpuller: curvy girls have nice asses tho. the ones that look like they wanna bust out of a pair of yoga pants.
mod6: ;;halfreward
gribble: Estimated time of bitcoin block reward halving: Sun Jul 17 06:02:17 2016 UTC | Time remaining: 24 weeks, 5 days, 8 hours, and 0 seconds.
mod6: ;;tslb
gribble: Time since last block: 12 minutes and 36 seconds
BingoBoingo: <thestringpuller> curvy girls have nice asses tho. the ones that look like they wanna bust out of a pair of yoga pants. << Those asses come from squats, not Beetus
pete_dushenski: https://bitbet.us/bet/1228/bitcoin-network-hits-1-exahash/ << dear bitbet mods, please to close and resolve as yes.
assbot: BitBet - Bitcoin Network Hits 1 Exahash :: 105.65 B (96%) on Yes, 3.93 B (4%) on No | closing in 8 months 2 weeks | weight: 82`743 (100`000 to 20`000) ... ( http://bit.ly/1n8UoUs )
pete_dushenski: looks like xt bet is now most highrollerest.
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-01-2016#1385149 << speaking of bitbet, go denver.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-01-2016 09:53:38; BingoBoingo: Anyways for people who care about the NFL chain (maybe BitBet) A Denver Broncos versus Carolina Panthers superbowl was mined.
PeterL: https://bitbet.us/bet/1244/donald-trump-to-win-south-carolina-republican-primary/ << newest bitbet - is there something particularly interesting about SC instead of NH or Iowa?
assbot: BitBet - Donald Trump to win South Carolina Republican Primary :: 0.39 B (78%) on Yes, 0.11 B (22%) on No | closing in 3 weeks 3 days | weight: 96`236 (100`000 to 10`000) ... ( http://bit.ly/1Un5Xlb )
copypaste: i bet on the more general "Trump wins the nomination"
copypaste: on yes.
danielpbarron is the dummy who started the rand paul bet
PeterL: you bet yes on Rand?
BingoBoingo: OMG look at pete_dushenski BitBet lawyering
danielpbarron: yeah, and to my dismay he's not even in the debates anymore
BingoBoingo: PeterL: SC is the first contest in an area that's actually populated to the point it has black people.
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: :D
PeterL: he is still the most reasonable of the candidates, unfortunately American's don't care about that
copypaste: indeed
trinque: president Camacho Trump incoming
danielpbarron: i don't actually care if he wins beyond me wanting to win the bet; i personally wouldn't vote for him
copypaste: Rand wouldn't be a bad president, but Trump has more of the showmanship
copypaste: Shopwmanship wins in American politics
danielpbarron: last guy i would've voted for was his dad, Ron Paul
BingoBoingo: copypaste: Notice though that Trump's showmanship was engrained in the public through NBC, a well known alias for Cliter's recto-vaginal fistula
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 151590 @ 0.00055882 = 84.7115 BTC [-] {6}
mod6: ;;tslb
gribble: Time since last block: 21 minutes and 22 seconds
PeterL: my prediction for republicans: Trump will win several early states, but as various candidates drop out trump will stay at that 25-30% and one of the other candidates will beat him in the later states
thestringpuller: !up bagels7
bagels7: We had a chicken that toughed out every night in the tree including -30'C storms, the rest slept in the coop
BingoBoingo: "A central figure in the Trump-acceptance movement is former presidential nominee and Senate majority leader Bob Dole, the erstwhile Republican establishment standard-bearer who is now just another elderly person in Kansas." << Also former Viagra spokesman
BingoBoingo: https://archive.is/Ruukz
assbot: The GOP establishment is pretending to warm to Donald Trump. ... ( http://bit.ly/1NwdhFu )
mod6: Another round of live-fire tests after building deedbot.org/build-bitcoind-99997K.sh [ with a change to line 61 to: './v.pl p verbose TEST2 asciilifeform_malleus_mikehearnificarum.vpatch' as to include the mod6_der_high_low_s.vpatch and alf's latest two ] -- the full orchastra builds and works as expected: http://dpaste.com/1S8GVD9.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Nwdh8z )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78650 @ 0.00054958 = 43.2245 BTC [-] {4}
pete_dushenski: mod6: wd!
BingoBoingo: https://i.imgur.com/PaHLgO0.png
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NwfQaF )
punkman: http://kottke.org/16/01/a-small-2009-car-demolishes-a-1959-chevy-in-a-crash-test
assbot: A small 2009 car demolishes a 1959 Chevy in a crash test ... ( http://bit.ly/1JzmW3s )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36670 @ 0.00054851 = 20.1139 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: PeterL what the dude making the bet cared about ? i imagine he's from sc or whatever.
mircea_popescu: <copypaste> Rand wouldn't be a bad president, but Trump has more of the showmanship << maybe they name the USS Flagship "Hairpiece" after him.
mircea_popescu: yeah, the ram/hdd division is REALLY important. so let's make more flash-based "hdds".
punkman: spinning rust sucks
asciilifeform: ^
punkman: and the ram/hdd division is most likely going away
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49183 @ 0.00056397 = 27.7377 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: 240 * 14383 * 1.25 = 4314900
mircea_popescu: oops.
punkman: "And with persistent transactional memory, there’s an issue that will surely make you smile with recognition: in-place of managing the relationship between volatile memory and disk, we now have to manage the relationship between the volatile CPU cache and memory! It’s all the same considerations (forcing, stealing etc.) but in a new context and with a few new twists."
mircea_popescu: "we" don't have to do any such thing. that's why the fucking cpu is there.
asciilifeform: ^
mircea_popescu: and unlike the "we" things "we" do, cpus actuallywork.
asciilifeform: go manually manage your alu.
mircea_popescu: in other boobs, http://49.media.tumblr.com/45fd78e818532b73c136f71a0b5cc38c/tumblr_ncq7bguzWe1rwaupfo2_r1_500.gif
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jzq6nI )
punkman: (excerpt from http://blog.acolyer.org/2016/01/21/blurred-persistence/ )
assbot: Blurred Persistence: Efficient Transactions in Persistent Memory | the morning paper ... ( http://bit.ly/1JzqbaZ )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38000 @ 0.00056737 = 21.5601 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76000 @ 0.00056737 = 43.1201 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: https://bitnodes.21.co/nodes/?q=/Classic:0.12.99/ << 4 https://bitnodes.21.co/nodes/?q=/Bitcoin%20XT:0.11.0E/ << 3
assbot: Network Snapshot - Bitnodes ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jzr4At )
assbot: Network Snapshot - Bitnodes ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jzr4QN )
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 391.34, vol: 8006.14854718 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 394.7, vol: 6568.51873 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 391.22, vol: 22563.50309897 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 370.0, vol: 2.0 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 396.81009, vol: 48039.73050000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 394.01, vol: 463.24396726 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 401.93825, vol: 51.2738617 | Volume-weighted last average: 394.652722705