log
⏐︎ 17077
mircea_popescu: http://36.media.tumblr.com/1cc9a5d0cfe50e3ab506233f9f113a82/tumblr_mksvh7tuk11rl0d0yo1_500.jpg lllllllava lamp
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1sNeXqI )
mircea_popescu: davout everyone can now be a "developer". even idiots.
PeterL: even me :)
davout: mircea_popescu: o hey, what are you referring to?
mircea_popescu: the "o look mom, i made a github commit. it changes the spelling of comments" thing
mircea_popescu: PeterL there's a difference between the innocent and the stupid.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22950 @ 0.00050894 = 11.6802 BTC [+] {2}
PeterL: wait, which am I?
davout: ah, yea lol, i had a look to see if this chick had any other commits on the project, seems like it's her sole 'contribution' to the whole thing
mircea_popescu: davout no matter, "core contributor" nao.
mircea_popescu: whole slew of these, the cleaning lady wants to be "part of the team" nao.
davout: by this account i'm a core contributor to bitcoin too, i reset testnet once, fuck it
mircea_popescu: PeterL weren't you a biochemist by trade dabbling into code as a hobby recently ?
asciilifeform: not cleaning lady. demented bomzh who breaks into the office and takes a shit in the coffee pot.
PeterL: chemist, yes
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is what us cleaning lady does.
mircea_popescu: PeterL so you'd be the innocent.
mircea_popescu: at least until proof to the contrary.
PeterL: ok, I'll take that
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they don't have cleaning ladies in the classic sense, which is why conde nast is writing memos to the "journos" about keeping the place clean.
mircea_popescu: apparently nobody heard of a "shut.the.fuck.up.and.hire.cleaning.crew.cheapskates."
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what is this. every office park where i live has cleaners.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 100% 'spanish'
mircea_popescu: same here, but who the fuck knows what they do in the soviet republic of san francisco.
mircea_popescu: yoga class, probably.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla: keyids are evil << yeh davout. stop thinking about short keyids bs.
davout: well, i was just reading about them in the deedbot spec
davout: i'll let you read the convo
mircea_popescu: i just have.
mircea_popescu: what do you mean gpg doesn't return them ?!
davout: it does, it doesn't however return fingerprints
mircea_popescu: ok but then gpg --fingerprint | grep "keid" ?
davout: that implies you have the key in your keyring
mircea_popescu: one more reason gpg has to be rewritten i guess.
mircea_popescu: who the fuck did this i have nfi.
asciilifeform: everybody here understands difference between how key id and fp are calculated ?
asciilifeform: and yes, it's retarded
mircea_popescu: ah it's there.
mircea_popescu: nah nah.
mircea_popescu: davout http://pastebin.com/66Cb1kbX
assbot: $ gpg -v -v --with-fingerprint gpg: Go ahead and type your message ... -----BE - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1sNixkt )
davout: asciilifeform: well, keyid is a part of the fpr afaik
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform keyid is the last 16 chars of the 40 char fignerprint. and then there's an 8 char shit too. neither of these last two are any good, but hey, "usability". crap.
mircea_popescu: https://evil32.com/examples.html for the innocents reading logs. ☟︎
assbot: Evil 32: Check Your GPG Fingerprints ... ( http://bit.ly/1sNj3PC )
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla: the point is MAPPING is bad << he understands.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8350 @ 0.0005114 = 4.2702 BTC [+] {2}
davout: mircea_popescu: try with this guy -> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=bxxZyms9
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1sNjDNa )
Apocalyptic: mircea, what is your pastebin supposed to show ?
davout: if you don't have the key in your ring it won't know the fpr
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic the fingerprint, penultimate line.
undata: davout is right
Apocalyptic: it does show "Primary key fingerprint: 6160 E1CA C8A3 C529 66FD 7699 8A73 6F0E 2FB7 B452" because you have you own key in your keyring obviously
Apocalyptic: go try it on a system you have no
Apocalyptic: *not
mircea_popescu: davout if you don';t have the key you can't verify signatures, dork!
davout: lol, deedbot isn't supposed to verify sigs amirite
Apocalyptic: well this was the whole point of the discussion
Apocalyptic: and according to davout it's not supposed ot verify
undata: ^ this enraged me
undata is open to correction
davout: i could tell
mircea_popescu: well apparently it just became required to verify cause otherwise it can't talk to assbot.
mircea_popescu: accidental spec!
davout: mircea_popescu: with the fingerprint for a key it could simply do what you said wrt requesting trust data as a json blob from the w.b-a.link thing
davout: s/for a key/for a sig/
mircea_popescu: davout but assbot won't respond unless he queries by fingerprints.
davout: yea that's the whole problem
mircea_popescu: IF gpg doesn't put out full fingerprints for verified keys, then gpg is broken
mircea_popescu: gpg: Signature made Sat 21 Aug 1999 07:04:31 PM ART using DSA key ID 8ACE3E79
mircea_popescu: gpg: Can't check signature: public key not found
mircea_popescu: myeah.
davout: the crux is 'verified keys', if deedbot doesn't maintain a full keyring at all times it can't pull fingerprints
davout: this sounds a bit overkill to me
mircea_popescu: defo the gpg signature model is bad.
mircea_popescu: feel free to fork and fix the gpg key verification process so it reports fingerpritns properly not wtf it's doing now.
davout: gpg can't know the fpr for a key it doesn't have, the information isn't part of the signature packet
Apocalyptic: mircea, note that neither the "-v" nor the "--with-fingerprint" flags are required to get the fingerprint line displayed
mircea_popescu: who the fuck did thius.
Apocalyptic: ^ I asked myself the same
davout: see http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2015#980997 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2015 22:34:54; davout: asciilifeform: yeah, that's what i was reading, it mentions user ids in the subpackets spec, but i'm unsure whether that includes an actual key fingerprint, i tend to understand that it doesn't
mircea_popescu rages
mircea_popescu: dude rms, you saved 24 bytes aren't you a smart fucking cookie.
mircea_popescu: davout only possible workaround seems keeping the lordship keys.
PeterL: would it be hard to maintain a keyring with all us in it?
undata: no
Apocalyptic: that's what punkman's bot did afaik
mircea_popescu: which i guess is not that bad, seeing how it also solves the problem of the untrustworthy pgp-sks etc
davout: anyway, my point wrt to deedbot is that it's supposed to be used by ppl with L1/L2 trust, it doesn't need to check gpg signatures, so let anyone with +v in -assets use it, do away with the requirement that a keyid belonging to someone in assbot's wot be presented or maliciously hammered into the message
mircea_popescu: so i guess ima have to modify the spec instead of finishing my "on terrorism' article.
mircea_popescu: davout how do you propose to query assbot for l1/l2 inclusion ?
davout: whoever has voice in -assets shall be deemed worthy to notarize
mircea_popescu: derp.
mircea_popescu: no, it's not ok to overload voice like that.
undata: this was my entire rant
davout: greatly simplifies the problem, don't see too much downside to it, and we're eventually moving to gossipd anyway
mircea_popescu: i give voice to all the whores, not to mention all sorts of known usg agents
PeterL: but you would still need keys to verify deed signatures?
undata: why should gpg exist; irc is apparently all we ever needed
mircea_popescu: PeterL original spec didn't call for that.
davout: and notary would be connected through asswot's gossipd's node anyway
PeterL: oh, do deeds even need to be gpg signed?
mircea_popescu: davout undata gossipd can well be a year or two away.
mircea_popescu: PeterL yes.
undata: mircea_popescu: I am being facetious, and argued earlier for sig verification
davout: let whores timestamp some blobs now and then i say
undata: I'm hacking on something now, but will wait for an updated spec
PeterL: why sign if you are not verifying?
mircea_popescu: incoming.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10900 @ 0.00050843 = 5.5419 BTC [-]
davout: undata: you fail to comprehend that it's not deedbot's job to certify to a third party that the contract is signed by an identified party, gpg already does that
davout: wrt to your earlier example of me scamming you, anybody can verify i signed the contract by using gpg itself
undata: davout: its output should be the history of valid deeds, not "that which a rubber stamp has touched"
davout: why the hell would it need deedbot to testify to that too ?
undata: god... do the proceedings of court note that a pidgeon shat on the window?
davout: that didn't parse
davout: it did derp
undata: have you ever been to a notary?
davout: why do you absolutely want to shoehorn your conception of a notary into deedbot?
undata: do you know what a deed is?
undata: or why one has it observed by a 3rd party?
undata: and signed as such
davout: we don't need Z to witness that X and Y signed a contract together, because any party can and will use GPG
davout: and properly verify that fact
davout: why would Z's word add any value to the information GPG outputs?
punkman: it doesn't really, but it's useful nonetheless
undata: keeps the published bundles down to a size that is manageable
undata: keeps it from being filled with useless crud with invalid sigs
davout: wtf is this size bzns?
undata: size for hands and eyeballs to verify
Apocalyptic: <undata> keeps it from being filled with useless crud with invalid sigs << this sounds pretty reasonable
undata: not disk space
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15100 @ 0.00050726 = 7.6596 BTC [-]
punkman: davout, I'll just say that there were many cases with invalid signatures posted as deeds
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/open-deed-system-for-bitcoin-assets-updated/
assbot: [OPEN] Deed system for #bitcoin-assets, updated. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1sNobmP )
davout: the whole point here is to let ppl with L2/L1 trust timestamp stuff
davout: and only them
mircea_popescu: not and only them.
mircea_popescu: the point is to let them create and let the whole world trust and be able to verify.
scoopbot: New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/open-deed-system-for-bitcoin-assets-updated/
scoopbot: New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/what-does-desperation-look-like/
mircea_popescu: its point is enacting privilege, not segregation.
davout: what is privilege if not the differentiation from the un-privileged?
undata: mircea_popescu: I read the payment as coming from the party wanting a signature, not the bot?
undata: or no
undata: seems fair to me; pay per use
mircea_popescu: undata no, payment comes from teh boty.
undata: whyssat?
mircea_popescu: but dun worry about it, i seeded the prev one an' ill seed this one too.
undata: k
mircea_popescu: davout it gotta be one way. if there's four people and they fuck in two subsets of twos, that's segregation. if there's one that fucks all other three but the rest only jack off, that's privilege.
davout: i see
mircea_popescu: is "and pushes it to public repositories" a point of contention ?
PeterL: wouldn't keys already be public when registering with assbot?
davout: mircea_popescu: well, now the bot needs a key too :-)
mircea_popescu: PeterL idea kinda is to make a further record of people's sigs, help guard them against mitm and other nefariousness. but as davout points out, now the bot needs a key.
PeterL: did it not have a key before?
mircea_popescu: which makes shit more complicated. however, it also makes shit perhaps better defensible ? i dunno.
mircea_popescu: nah.
davout: i don't really see a use for that
davout: and if the signature on the blob is required only for access control, maybe it's be better to leverage asswot's functionality directly
mircea_popescu: davout nah, it's required for inclusion in bthe actual deed.
davout: as in 'wanna timestamp some stuff? fine, verify with and otp"
mircea_popescu: for later ppl to be able to verify at home.
davout: say i want to timestamp a contract i made with someone also in the L2 group as nested clearsigns, i doesn't really matter which signature is checked by deedbot, right?
davout: nah, scratch that
mircea_popescu: it only checks outer.
davout: yeah well, i wanted to point out that it didn't really prevent anyone from checking the inner sig at home
davout: i just fail to see a good reason to make the signatures mandatory, outside of access control that is
mircea_popescu: so that someone in 3714, with nothing but an inscription of deedbot's deeds, can verify our contracts just as well as we can.
mircea_popescu: this is the point of notarization : making the acts of men equal to the acts of god.
asciilifeform: unless key factored <= 3714
asciilifeform: not god quite yet.
davout: maybe we'll want to timestamp something else than contracts is what i'm thinking
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform factorization trivially defeated by better key putting it into record :(
mircea_popescu: :) i mean
asciilifeform: gotta be alive to upgrade keys
asciilifeform: ozymandias - won't.
PeterL: you can timestamp whatever you want, as long as gpg signed first
davout: that's how is spec'd yes :-)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no but suppose your 4kb key is factorized. this matter is discovered by joe on june 19th, 3211. he signs, with his 64kb key, a note saying so.
mircea_popescu: now, come 3714, it will be clear that uses ulterior to 3211 are null. but it will also be clear that uses prior to say, 3200 will still hold
mircea_popescu: davout that's how it goes, why not.
asciilifeform: well yes, in that case joe is, so to speak, trimming the weeds on your monument.
mircea_popescu: yup
davout: asciilifeform: also if you see a message signed with your key, and timestamped 200 years after your first timestamped message you can reasonably assumed it's been broken
asciilifeform: davout: lol, but what kind of idiot would do that
davout: say i timestamp sth in 2014
davout: any timestamping after 2114 is null and void, problem solves itself
PeterL: I don't suppose people pass keys down to their heirs?
undata: davout: this business of making assumptions is not how it's done...
davout: PeterL: well, sign something to this effect, otherwise timestamps are inherently suspicious, esp. if factorization is possible given state of current technology
davout: *further timestamps
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51000 @ 0.00050035 = 25.5179 BTC [-] {2}
davout: undata: which assumption are you referring to?
kakobrekla: you are suppose to assume that
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 11 @ 0.125 = 1.375 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: <PeterL> I don't suppose people pass keys down to their heirs? << people well might.
mircea_popescu: what exactly is inheritance if not this, fundamentally, inheriting father's FIRM. ie, signature.
asciilifeform: nope.
asciilifeform: in the case of pgp key, it's rather like, in the worst case, time travel.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17400 @ 0.00050949 = 8.8651 BTC [+] {3}
asciilifeform: dead pope's seal is broken for a reason.
asciilifeform: granted, not everyone is a pope.
undata: asciilifeform: still seems father would sign a public statement granting his possessions to a son
mircea_popescu: a complicated matter.
asciilifeform: sure. but he does not give him the ability to retroactively emulate him
undata: asciilifeform: I was agreeing :)
asciilifeform: father might want to bind the son into some sort of 'dead hand' arrangement
mircea_popescu: father generally does, for "son's own good".
asciilifeform: if son inherits signature, he can possibly unbind himself.
asciilifeform: or worse
asciilifeform: (crap all over father's posthumous good name by forging past xxxxx)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26898 @ 0.00049826 = 13.4022 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: !up BayAreaCoins
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you can't forge past because you can' register old deeds.
mircea_popescu: and you can retire a key any time you feel like.
asciilifeform: this assumes a universally agreed upon timestamp mechanism, yes.
asciilifeform: if there isn't one - can forge.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, the notary blockchain stamping mechanism.
mircea_popescu: quite universal.
kakobrekla: !s dual ec drbg
assbot: 3 results for 'dual ec drbg' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=dual+ec+drbg
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6902 @ 0.00049826 = 3.439 BTC [-]
undata: mircea_popescu: I get "No data" from the link in your spec article, and when I substitute my key's fingerprint
scoopbot: New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/on-terrorism/
mircea_popescu: undata lessee
mircea_popescu: w.b-a.link/trust/7C1FBEC924FBD66531A02AE3F95E4E395927DC9C/FC66C0C5D98C42A1D4A98B6B42F9985AFAB953C4/json
mircea_popescu: http://w.b-a.link/trust/7C1FBEC924FBD66531A02AE3F95E4E395927DC9C/FC66C0C5D98C42A1D4A98B6B42F9985AFAB953C4/json
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1yrC7W6 )
mircea_popescu: i r see json.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61600 @ 0.0005047 = 31.0895 BTC [+] {3}
undata: mircea_popescu: ah right, two parameters makes sense; the article has one
undata: the spec intends assbots fingerprint is one param?
mircea_popescu: you're supposed to replace the other one with the key you're looking for
undata: mircea_popescu: ty
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re: 'terrorism' article: where would you place osman empire on the 'law/terror' map?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67400 @ 0.00048005 = 32.3554 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15600 @ 0.00047837 = 7.4626 BTC [-]
cazalla: rate Rozal -3 threatened to rate me -10 because he doesn't understand how the WoT actually works, see http://pastebin.com/PABNbsex for conversation, offered to then pay me to remove the -1 earning him a -3
assbot: <Rozal> h <Rozal> hi <Rozal> i hate people who abuse the rating system <Rozal - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1yb2vBD )
cazalla: ah, clearly i gots to learn the new assbot rules, been a little busy
kakobrekla: put ! in front
cazalla: oh, that's right :) all good, did it in pm now
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51166 @ 0.00047822 = 24.4686 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/new-snowden-docs-indicate-scope-of-nsa-preparations-for-cyber-battle-a-1013409.html << arguably the first genuinely interesting snowdenism. with actual crapware samples, protocol docs.
assbot: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle - SPIEGEL ONLINE ... ( http://bit.ly/1yb3amC )
asciilifeform: and a few lists of pwned hardware.
decimation: asciilifeform: one wonders how much of this kind of thing he has left in 'reserve'
PeterL: and is it just going to get juicier as time goes on?
decimation: actually the 'bios erasure' thing calls to mind this news story back in 2013
decimation: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/12/16/nsa_alleges_bios_plot_to_destroy_pcs/
assbot: NSA alleges 'BIOS plot to destroy PCs' • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/1yb55rb )
asciilifeform: erasure's a snore.
asciilifeform: any idiot can erase.
decimation: asciilifeform: right, but it is amusing to look at the sudden panic over 'evil foreign erasure virus' when that's exactly what they have been working on (apparently)
decimation: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/01/16/obama_and_cameron_cybersecurity_partnership/ < "The President acknowledged concerns that encryption technology may make intelligence-gathering efforts more difficult, saying, "If we get into a situation which the technologies do not allow us at all to track somebody we're confident is a terrorist … and despite knowing that information, despite having a phone number or a social-media address
assbot: Prez Obama snubs UK PM's tough anti-encryption crusade at White House meet • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/15lD4SF )
decimation: or email address, that we can't penetrate that, that's a problem.""
asciilifeform: also expect to read volumes in the next few weeks in crapmedia re: the 'openssh backdoor'
asciilifeform: (which is actually a pedestrian doctored build)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform quite lawful.
mircea_popescu: it prevented the middle east issues for well over 5 centuries.
mircea_popescu: thus accomplishing more than western europe + north america, by a damned sight.
asciilifeform: wai wat
mircea_popescu: yeah.
mircea_popescu: whenever people like taleb think of peace in their homeland,
mircea_popescu: they're really thinking of something that was utopia pre and probably post osmanli.
asciilifeform: aha that
asciilifeform: forgot, for a min, what the original question was
asciilifeform: a little mindfuck.
mircea_popescu: osmanlı
asciilifeform: (bios diddlers kept the piece in mid. east...)
mircea_popescu: lol
asciilifeform: *peace
mircea_popescu: piece even better
asciilifeform has been at the console for too long, he thought
asciilifeform spend ~2h today haggling with a door-to-door flunkie from his isp, which recently hauled in extra fiber & is trying to upsell folks
mircea_popescu: so how much did you make haggling ?
asciilifeform: zip. sc4mz0rz.
undata is in progress haggling a new computer out of lenovo
asciilifeform: all the 'gr34t n3w d34lzz' were for buyers of tv & phone service.
mircea_popescu: cazalla you aware that pastie ends in sex ?
decimation: asciilifeform: verizon 'fios'?
asciilifeform: decimation: aha. the very same
undata: asciilifeform: I'd not mind if you hurried up making a computer that works for me :D
asciilifeform: ubiquitous on u.s. east coast
decimation: did you ask him who had to pay for the backup UPS
asciilifeform: which ups
asciilifeform: there's two, theirs & yours
cazalla: mircea_popescu, anything that's good, does
decimation: my understanding is that verzion 'gives' you an ups that you must maintain
asciilifeform: decimation: the customer-ended one comes with the box
asciilifeform: aha
decimation: right, but who replaces the inevitable dead battery?
asciilifeform: the subscriber
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57750 @ 0.0004784 = 27.6276 BTC [+] {2}
decimation: in the past, with copper, this was the phone company's responsibility
asciilifeform: when i got the building there wasn't even a battery.
asciilifeform: decimation: aha because there was no battery on subscriber premises in the copper era. unless he owned one.
decimation: precisely
asciilifeform: for what it's worth, i have the damned thing plugged into a monster 'liebert' doubleconverter along with the rest of the orchestra.
mircea_popescu: uh i never had this ? wut are you talking about ?!
decimation: I've heard that once verzion runs fiber to your premises, they typically take the time to rip out the old copper wire
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: large telco where i live.
mircea_popescu: ok but what battery ?
decimation: because they don't want to be held to 'common carrier' standards of common access and maintenance
asciilifeform: decimation: aha. there was a rat's nest of mangled copper when i got to it.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the particular telco's optical terminal chest comes with a battery. and lusers whine interminably that 'why do i have to replace this battery every year, i w4ntz fr3333 stuff'
mircea_popescu: cazalla eh, i'd say let the noob be.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is weird. in romania they keep the end battery on the pole next to you
mircea_popescu: it doesn't have to be ON THE EXACT END
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: here the pole also has a battery, for the telco routers. but the house optical chest has another. this is actually on account of an ancient law that proclaims that voice telephony must work during mains outages
mircea_popescu: and it's still illegal to fuck with the copper in yurp.
decimation: in the past, the copper wires were 'powered' by the telephone company in its central office
mircea_popescu: uh... voice over fiber ?!
asciilifeform: aha. for chumps.
mircea_popescu: lmao ok
cazalla: mircea_popescu, so i should just be more accepting of this idiocy? http://pastebin.com/iuwXWH1s
assbot: <Rozal> h <Rozal> hi <Rozal> i hate people who abuse the rating system <Rozal - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1IQlDZ4 )
asciilifeform: well, for folks who still want land line
asciilifeform: once you switch to the opticals here, they - as decimation pointed out in this and the last 3 threads on the subject - tear out your copper.
mircea_popescu: cazalla i skimmed it. dude's begging you and errything. he's nobody i heard of, prolly some noob.
mircea_popescu: imo not wrth the bullets.
cazalla: but he has so many ratings from otc from all his $5 buys!
decimation: not for any technical reason, but because of the assorted pile of usg policy & requirements that apply to 'common carrier' services like telephone
mircea_popescu: let ppls live
cazalla: anyway, he came looking for me, not me him, just as easy to neg rate him and move on with it
mircea_popescu: decimation imo destroying the copper infrastructure is even dumber than destroying the family infrastructure.
mircea_popescu: transvestites aren't worth it.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: on account of how it was built, it is tremendously expensive to maintain.
asciilifeform digs for thread
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43750 @ 0.00047726 = 20.8801 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: uh.
mircea_popescu: maintain copper ?!
mircea_popescu: which alternative universe is this!
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-05-2014#656215 and below ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 02-05-2014 21:22:05; asciilifeform: copper is expensive - not merely the metal, but maintenance - keeping water out of the cable ducts, etc. the telcos would hurry to be rid of it even the removal did not speed the arrival of arsenet.
mircea_popescu: im pretty sure most landline infrastructure in eastern europe has never been maintained in any sense since at least 1985
mircea_popescu: think ny waterworks.
asciilifeform: funnily enough, ny land lines perished in a massive flood a few yrs ago.
asciilifeform: mostly replaced with monopoly fiber.
mircea_popescu: was that the one when they drenched the vaults ? lost ~10 trn worth of old paper ?
asciilifeform: the same.
decimation: re: family infrastructure: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/12/22/less-than-half-of-u-s-kids-today-live-in-a-traditional-family/
assbot: Less than half of U.S. kids today live in a ‘traditional’ family | Pew Research Center ... ( http://bit.ly/1IQn0H6 )
decimation: asciilifeform: actually I thought there were areas where they 'gave up' and decided not to rebuild any phone system
asciilifeform: decimation: if this is so, it is contrary to the ancient laws.
mircea_popescu: decimation i doubt they would meet my definition. things like "every boy under 16 must have 4 acres of forested hillside and a dog"
asciilifeform: in usa, telco is mandatory.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform iirc it's one of those where existence is mandatory but no-one's responsibility. so...
asciilifeform: point is, most of the remaining copper could vanish overnight, and not one in ten people will notice.
asciilifeform: everyone is using mobiles.
decimation: http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/8/4308462/verizon-drops-traditional-telephone-service-after-hurricane-sandy-damage
assbot: Disaster, meet opportunity: Verizon's plan to push wireless on copper landline customers | The Verge ... ( http://bit.ly/1IQnsFx )
mircea_popescu: heh.
asciilifeform: it so happens that in usa, a landline phone is a spam magnet.
decimation: asciilifeform: there are at least two main reasons for this: 1.) it is illegal to 'telemarket' to mobile phones and 2.) landlines are billed at outrageous rates
mircea_popescu: "opportunity". anyone here seen les trotillards ?
asciilifeform: whereas a wireless handset, most of the time, is not
mircea_popescu: 1950s film.
asciilifeform does not keep a landline
decimation had a landline for years, became enraged that a $2 per month service became $40 after taxes & fees
mircea_popescu: "famine is a disaster that opens the door to opportunity : you can swallow knots!"
decimation: !up sinetek
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11444 @ 0.00047709 = 5.4598 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: http://36.media.tumblr.com/769eacecb4e2f3ef24158d768aea710f/tumblr_mixnuyf1yc1rigqazo1_500.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1IQonWs )
asciilifeform: http://www.spiegel.de/media/media-35661.pdf << the document concerning specific doctored firmware ☟︎
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1IQotx8 )
decimation: \me wonders if lizzard hitler's purpose with these releases is simply to distribute digital contraband for later reckoning
asciilifeform: http://www.spiegel.de/media/media-35676.pdf << data exfiltration protocol implementation guide
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1IQoMrR )
asciilifeform: ^ nazi ssl
asciilifeform: the rest can be safely skipped, mostly snore.
mircea_popescu: exfiltration protocol /
mircea_popescu: who the fuck woud be stupid enough to use a protocol for this job ?!
mircea_popescu: "virus protocol"
asciilifeform: what's funny. any good crapware artist has 'protocol' - as in, what order to put the bits in over the wire
mircea_popescu: yes. his.
mircea_popescu: he's not using yours.
asciilifeform: these folks have their own
mircea_popescu: that's actually the difference between artist and script kiddie.
mircea_popescu: yes, these folks are script kiddies.
mircea_popescu: that's basically the long and the short of it. nsa = national scriptkiddie association. a glorified derp club.
asciilifeform: actually reminds me more of microshit
asciilifeform: very similar flavour of product
kakobrekla: skriptkiddies in your gpg sigs messing with your keyid.
decimation: asciilifeform: what about the meta-nsa part?
mircea_popescu: davout: Apocalyptic: RFC 5.2.2 sez a signature packet contains "Eight-octet Key ID of signer" << seriously in shock/denial about this.
mircea_popescu: who the fucking fuck was dumb enough!
mircea_popescu: "oh we got fingerprints let's not use them"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5700 @ 0.00047677 = 2.7176 BTC [-]
PeterL: might as well put their initials instead of signing their name
mircea_popescu: you know ?
decimation: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/01/17/vc_investment_hits_dotcom_boom_levels/ << annual silly-con valley vc funding is less than a single whatsapp
assbot: Venture Capital investment in Silicon Valley hits dot-com boom levels • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/1IQpMME )
mircea_popescu: in a fucking rfc ? /me rants and raves
mircea_popescu: decimation yes but a single watsapp "could buy all of russia".
PeterL: let me sign this important legal documet: "X"
mircea_popescu: PeterL no, that's not right.
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 2**24
gribble: 16777216
mircea_popescu: there's 16mn people that could all be the same keyid.
PeterL: yeah, I know it is not quite the same thing
mircea_popescu: so initials moar like it
mircea_popescu: i guess most initial combos have about 10ish mn possible representatives.
mircea_popescu: on the grounds that
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 7.5*10**9 / 27 / 27
gribble: 10288065.8436
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/lulz/lulz.html << for pdf haters
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1IQqx8l )
asciilifeform: (yes, it was a scan)
mircea_popescu: top secret from wikiinfo ?
asciilifeform: from spiegel
asciilifeform: late last night.
asciilifeform: if it's a fake, it's a very stylish fake.
mircea_popescu: "good hearing for some work" heh.
asciilifeform: having worked on own versions of many of the gadgets described, i will attest that there is nothing outlandish about any of them.
mircea_popescu: srsly ? they SRSLY use sound spectroscopy ?
asciilifeform: why the hell not ?
mircea_popescu: i dunno. because it's not 1915 ?
asciilifeform: !s acoustic cryptanalysis
assbot: 0 results for 'acoustic cryptanalysis' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=acoustic+cryptanalysis
asciilifeform: http://www.tau.ac.il/~tromer/papers/acoustic-20131218.pdf
mircea_popescu: heh.
asciilifeform: you know, that one.
asciilifeform: we chewed on it here, i'm quite certain.
asciilifeform: !s inductors
assbot: 14 results for 'inductors' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=inductors
asciilifeform: there we go.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform definitely stylish. enhancment ?
asciilifeform: enhancement ?
decimation: one wonders how much of that list is simply parlor tricks vs. 'fired in anger'
asciilifeform: decimation: it's an office agenda. not an advertisement.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform typo included.
asciilifeform: unless, of course, it is an advertisement.
mircea_popescu: "berserkr" does not support wireless cards ?
decimation: the implication of your statement being that the office even has a coherent agenda
mircea_popescu: anyway. unimpressive.
asciilifeform: this is the first document where i'm nearly convince that it isn't a hangout.
mircea_popescu: if authentic this is rather humiliatory.
decimation: what do you expect? frickin' lasers?
mircea_popescu: dude, they're selling themselves as something more than "zack & miri make an agency"
asciilifeform: remember, this isn't from the cracking-pgp division
PeterL: sharks, with frickin lazer beams attached to their heads
asciilifeform: but from the pc-diddler brigade.
mircea_popescu: and they are teh premier unemployable math grad student cemetery.
asciilifeform: nothing has leaked from that maths grad cemetery.
asciilifeform: afaik.
asciilifeform: not one napkin sketch.
decimation: asciilifeform: wonder why?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49700 @ 0.00047436 = 23.5757 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: cause it was all writen in malbolge
asciilifeform: it is very easy to keep a secret which 100 people alive can appreciate the significance of.
asciilifeform: how many would recognize an 'rsa pill' if saw.
mircea_popescu: depends. would it be called DERPYCASTLE ?
asciilifeform: SORESTARFISH
mircea_popescu: NIBBLEBASKET ?
mircea_popescu: OFFICECHAIR
decimation: JERKCIRCLE
mircea_popescu: ANGRYPEANUT
mircea_popescu: leveraging MYBOSSISDUMB and HISWIFESASLUT
decimation: asciilifeform: of course, said 'pill' couldn't have been 'fired in anger' either? don't need higher math to understand the implications
mircea_popescu: decimation i think he had in mind something like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsyJX3sESjs
assbot: Animaniacs - The ACME Song - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1IQuoT4 )
asciilifeform: not without seven oceans' worth of parallelconstructiony-plausibledeniability
asciilifeform: etc
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35127 @ 0.00046975 = 16.5009 BTC [-] {2}
Adlai: SQUEAMISHOSSIFRAGE
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27900 @ 0.00047689 = 13.3052 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: lol
Adlai: congratulations on replacing the WoT's centralized point of failure with another centralized point of failure!
mircea_popescu: Adlai no they're supposed to work in tandem.,
Adlai: dunno, i authed with gribble as usual, then messaged assbot !up, and had to auth with him as well
Adlai: (this is why my joke came three minutes late)
mircea_popescu: Adlai that's the idea. looky here : gribble/wot was created a few years ago,. when btc was worth nothing and nobody bothered distinguishing between taaki and gavin.
mircea_popescu: then bitcoin became more valuable than all of san francisco combined
mircea_popescu: nanotube's idea was to re-create the wot as a p2p thing of sorts, and he's been working at it for a while, but hey. it's hard.
mircea_popescu: my idea was to simply network a bunch of centralised gribbles.
mircea_popescu: it seems to be winning out.
Adlai: won't gossipd mitigate this to some extent?
cazalla: !up felipelalli
mircea_popescu: "this" ?
Adlai: using a wot to reduce spam/noise
mircea_popescu: well, once completed gossipd actually is a fully decentralized wot keeper, sure.
Adlai: maybe you should've called it cssipd
mircea_popescu: lol whay ?
Adlai: it's subtle but you'll get it eventually :)
asciilifeform got immediately
mircea_popescu: ;/
mircea_popescu feels all left out
felipelalli: qntra.net for me is the more serious and reliable source of information about bitcoin nowdays, there is something similar?
mircea_popescu: felipelalli nope, it's centralised :)
felipelalli: mircea_popescu: thank you! :)
Adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2015#979667 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 16-01-2015 23:35:28; mircea_popescu: that pretty much means c - only you realise ?
mircea_popescu: nope
Adlai: go-ssipd
mircea_popescu: oh
mircea_popescu: lolk
Adlai: don't rum and logs
mircea_popescu: i wasn't probably ever cing to get it.
Adlai: :D
Adlai: btcmiami is a disappointment, we were robbed of our chance to hear the great garza speak
Adlai consoled himself by asking the nice salespeople at the paybase booth whether he could point his mining hardware at zenpool
mircea_popescu: what's gavin dressed up as this time ? perianne boring ?
Adlai: he's not here
mircea_popescu: oh so he came dressed as a bfl miner ?
Adlai: hey now, bfl miners exist, i have one as a doorstop since it doesn't work anymore
mircea_popescu: solid.
Adlai: well the conf did yield one good thing, a new idiom: "bullshit bingo"
decimation: Adlai: had you ever been to miami before? how did it strike you?
hanbot: <mircea_popescu> i wasn't probably ever cing to get it. << you fucks, in five years nobody's going to be able to read the logs who hasn't been here for six lol
Adlai: hanbot: s/go/c/pls
mircea_popescu: lol keeping up is hard work!
Adlai: and they should be able to get it, the context is right there
asciilifeform: hanbot: now you know how maths students feel
Adlai: decimation: first time here. this may be the most touristy place i've ever visited
decimation: first time I went there it struck me as a shithole
mircea_popescu: coming from someone who lives in israel... that's pretty damning.
decimation: except for the tiny skin of civilization near the water, the city is a giant slum
mircea_popescu: whole country is essentially a "we were too cheap to actulaly build the disneyland but we're selling tickets to it anyway"
Adlai: not just israel, tel aviv. so SoBe be worse.
mircea_popescu: Adlai btw saw a sight today in ba jewish quarter. guy with proper astrakhan hat, plus two kids in full costume.
mircea_popescu: you know the ones where wearer looks like he's put a cake on his head ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14747 @ 0.00046904 = 6.9169 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the ru sheepskin hat ?
mircea_popescu: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-aQEsmgFbRog/T0D0DIfe8uI/AAAAAAAAADg/7yc77Dudsyk/s1600/Orthodox+Jew+wearing+a+shtreimel+Photo+Boaz+Gabriel+Canhoto.JPG << teh shtreimel
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1IQzajh )
asciilifeform: lol, ru hat that took a disintegrator blast to the top.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform iirc my history, the thing was actually invented by volga tatars
asciilifeform: woah, according to pediwik, hat sells for 1-5k usd.
decimation: look out for dengue fever in miami http://miami.cbslocal.com/2014/09/12/3-new-cases-of-dengue-fever-in-miami-dade/
assbot: 3 New Cases Of Dengue Fever In Miami-Dade « CBS Miami ... ( http://bit.ly/1GdJfce )
mircea_popescu: depends. a proper fur one is more like 5-10k
asciilifeform: serious hat.
Adlai: in the (badly remembered, can't be bothered to watch all his youtube videos to find the exact) words of the great Pat Condell: "they'd rather the world returned to the stone age, aside from a brief excursion into seventeenth century poland for some clothes"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a proper russian hat is about there also. sable or w/e.
mircea_popescu: course plenty of rabbit, nutria etc.
asciilifeform has never worn or so much as touched a hat made from a rarer animal than rabbit
mircea_popescu: wow.
mircea_popescu: how about a woman dressed thus ?
Adlai: orthodox jewish women don't get to wear the fancy stuff
mircea_popescu: well orthodox jewish women are also fat.
Adlai: they have to cover up, although not as much as the cousins
asciilifeform: iirc, those wear... wigs ?
Adlai: they have these hideous hair covering things
mircea_popescu: anyway, this is to be tried. deck the nude chicks in fox, sable, hermeline, etc. wear blindfold. have fun.
mircea_popescu: expensive fur is expensive for very good reasons that can't really be grasped fully untill you rub your cock on it.
Adlai: !b 2 ✂︎
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3K8D26J.txt )
Adlai: we'll leave the zoophilic overtones as an exercise to the astute log-reader
asciilifeform wonders if 'furries' go in for rare furs
mircea_popescu: today we learn hermeline is actually stoats in english.
mircea_popescu: dumb name
decimation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRNlxBuB9jM
assbot: Hole in the sheet - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1IQBVkw )
asciilifeform: l0l!
asciilifeform: 'i could celebrate -christmas- through that hole!'
decimation: hehe
mircea_popescu: bitch's a total antisemite.
mircea_popescu: !up aabtc
aabtc: brutal market lately
aabtc any opinions on this? http://www.coindesk.com/ibm-reveals-proof-concept-blockchain-powered-internet-things/
assbot: IBM Reveals Proof of Concept for Blockchain-Powered Internet of Things ... ( http://bit.ly/1GdJOTk )
asciilifeform: 'those concerns “are being addressed” as Ethereum moves toward its planned launch sometime this year.'
mircea_popescu: a) ibm is a real estate agency ; b) proof of concept = vaporware ; c) buzzword-buzzword-something-buzzword.
Adlai: also, coindesk publish press releases as articles in return for money
asciilifeform: do we really need to read past 'ethereum' ?
Adlai: (not that most other "news" sites, on all topics, don't do this)
mircea_popescu: Adlai the worse part being that they're innocent enough to not know that's a dumb business model.
mircea_popescu: davout: "Implementations SHOULD NOT assume that Key IDs are unique", so let's just include that in the signature packet. derp << no, seriously.
mircea_popescu: such braindamage.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44623 @ 0.00048022 = 21.4289 BTC [+]
Adlai: seems to be working well for them so far, guy at the conference said that coindesk is a reliable news source so it must be
Adlai: ("i use coindesk and zeroblock. the forums and reddit are good for laughs, but have lots of trolls and altcoins")
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: original pgp was not an apparatus for one-off deals with strangers, but something to use between friends, as i understand. << what you say is accurate, but doesn't excuse. suppose i knock up a girl, and the blastule in her folds goes "hey, daddy's cock was crooked, so let's make the baby's cunt crooked too. nothing like baking in random assumptionbs for no good reason!"
asciilifeform: how could it excuse.
asciilifeform: was trying to explain the history.
mircea_popescu: Adlai guy at some other conference said ginzu knife.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeh. im angry.
asciilifeform: bonsai attack.
asciilifeform: banzai tree.
Adlai: original btc was an experiment, doesn't excuse treating it as "just an experiment" nowadays
asciilifeform blows dust of personal collection of english illiteracies
asciilifeform: *off
mircea_popescu: davout: that doesn't make much sense to me, how would a maliciously crafted pubkey even verify the signature? << http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-01-2015#981108 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 18-01-2015 00:22:17; mircea_popescu: https://evil32.com/examples.html for the innocents reading logs.
mircea_popescu: Adlai now it's a thousand different experiments.
mircea_popescu: undata: because terrorists can't find an old copy of gpg? << gun laws aren't predicated on the theory that criminals can't find a gun.
mircea_popescu: they're predicated on the theory that ustardian faggots really enjoy the feeling of a stretched rectum, and politicians are essentially whores : in the business of pleasing the customer with the least possible effort.
Adlai: another quote from miami: "bitcoin is the only technology with a price feed". me: "bullshit, bitcoin has no price feed, although each person in this room has their own slightly differing one"
asciilifeform recalls reading an article long ago re: how crypto actually enjoyed greater legal protection in usa back when it was classified as a weapon of war
mircea_popescu: "decentralize dprice feed, even better"
undata: mircea_popescu: the unending theatre can be maddening
mircea_popescu: "yes but apple actually has a price feed"
mircea_popescu: "apple is not a technology, apple is a vision"
mircea_popescu: "your mother is a whore"
Adlai: (this was in a comparison of bitcoin to tcp/ip or smtp... "you can't short SMTP when your inbox takes forever to load"
mircea_popescu: Adlai check it out, i can do the conference solo!
mircea_popescu: people this stupid should really be put to some sort of use.
mircea_popescu: maybe send them as teachers to china ?
Adlai: http://www.righto.com/2014/09/mining-bitcoin-with-pencil-and-paper.html
assbot: Ken Shirriff's blog: Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day ... ( http://bit.ly/1IQHJuC )
kakobrekla: re conference , im disappointed to find out chief scammer did not show up
mircea_popescu: check it out asciilifeform , one step closer to slavecoin
Adlai: he showed up
mircea_popescu: did you just map a keid you two ?
Adlai: just didn't have a presentation
Adlai: he's here along with lady and the goons
kakobrekla: ah
mircea_popescu: Adlai wait, garza dood has a woman in tow ? pics ?
Adlai: at first i was so glad, "ah, some diversity in the conference patrons!"
Adlai: and then i recognized his hairdo
Adlai: and realized the roles of his entourage
Adlai: phone died, no pics. maybe tomorrow.
mircea_popescu: well, be a perez hilton.
mircea_popescu: how tall is she ? cup size ? natural ? cheap dress ? tall enough heels ? can she walk on em ?
Adlai: i'm pretty sure there are pics of his family on reddit, probably posted by some angsty idiot after realizing he'd never get his hashpoints back
mircea_popescu: http://jeffgarza.blogspot.com.ar/2008/05/my-swimmer-wife.html ?
assbot: Jeff Garza : Worship Minister, 1st Baptist of Worland, Wyoming: My Swimmer Wife! ... ( http://bit.ly/1IQIFix )
mircea_popescu: "I am so proud of my wife Sandra! She is such a hard working women!"
mircea_popescu: plural!
Adlai: hmmmmmmmm that sandra does not look like the lady i saw with him
Adlai: but money does wonderful things, like surgery for the lady AND the mistress!
kakobrekla: wtf is that page real world ?
Adlai: no its internet
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla you don't understand how the baptist worlkd works!
kakobrekla: the more i know the less i understand
mircea_popescu: http://a9.vietbao.vn/images/vn955/bong-da/55216480-1233794079-Carmella_garcia_15.jpg ?
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1IQJgAN )
Adlai: wait
Adlai: genius at work is not "jeff garza", unless he's another one of these namechanging shapeshifters
Adlai: but if you're gonna pick a new scammername, why take "josh"? that one is already taken...
mircea_popescu: heh
mircea_popescu: in other news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdp651OV2N1rg712do1_500.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1IQLosj )
mircea_popescu: it was a pleasant spring day in argentina.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: reminds me of the anthill scene in baldaev.
mircea_popescu: a little water ?
mircea_popescu: it's good for her.
asciilifeform: lol
asciilifeform: http://trilema.com/2014/how-the-other-half-lives-or-michael-o-church-is-a-scummy-fuckwit/#comment-111514 << wtf was this about
assbot: How the other half lives, or Michael O. Church is a scummy fuckwit pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1IQLxvL )
asciilifeform: 'different perceptions of gender' ?
mircea_popescu: clearly.
asciilifeform: where found, in insane asylum ?
mircea_popescu: http://collarspace.com/details.asp?px=sweetheartslave&bhcp=1
assbot: Hi! I just turned 18 in February and am really excited to be getting to try new things ^_^ I'm ... ( http://bit.ly/1IQLTma )
mircea_popescu: i give you even money she's contributing to open source projects, doing his/their substitutions.
asciilifeform: lol, us gurl with this haircut, even i could have guessed
asciilifeform: it's almost required.
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, i'm kinda waiting for the moment when broken code is defended as "different perceptions of software". why should it fixed ? it's not a bug, it's a rights issue!
asciilifeform: no need to wait!
asciilifeform: poettering et. al
asciilifeform: didn't somebody link to a post of this very same argument, written by a blind man (yes) in that gang ?
asciilifeform: and,
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the misshapen face seems more concerning. haircut easy to fix, buzzcut still required for moloday a
asciilifeform: if only these folks stuck to diddling comments
asciilifeform: easy to fix, sure, but when acquired voluntarily it is usually a flag of affiliation
mircea_popescu: teenager's affiliation is worth about the same governmental promises are worth.
asciilifeform: of the 'i hate boys' variety
mircea_popescu: about as fun to fuck out of them, too.
asciilifeform: work for specialist.
mircea_popescu: kinda funny as to what counts to insults these days.
mircea_popescu: a new cocktail: taint. http://40.media.tumblr.com/e704023cffe32165d77f316642444a2e/tumblr_mgvjxbP5V71rfc12eo1_500.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1IQPErJ )
mircea_popescu: shaken, not stirred.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56050 @ 0.00046933 = 26.3059 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: !up MetatronOne
pete_dushenski: http://www.contravex.com/2015/01/17/spending-all-your-time-figuring-out-what-kind-of-ism-you-and-your-friends-believe-in-so-that-you-can-call-each-other-whatever-ists-is-no-way-to-improve-the-world/
assbot: Spending all your time figuring out what kind of “-ism” you and your friends believe in so that you can call each other “whatever-ists” is no way to improve the world. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1IR2fv3 )
mircea_popescu: lol complicate
mircea_popescu: d
pete_dushenski: ha well these neoreactionist kids are pretty darn confused so it'd be a fair reflection of that
mircea_popescu: wait neoreactionist ? which one is that ?
pete_dushenski: they're sorta like libertarianists
pete_dushenski: they don't much care for progressives or equality
mircea_popescu: anything positive ?
pete_dushenski: and they dislike democracy and like heirarchy
mircea_popescu: so like us only different ?
pete_dushenski: like us with no interest or understanding in the workings of power, economics, or politics
pete_dushenski: like us but americanly utopian
pete_dushenski: "neoreaction is a specific discovery of the arrow of time, within the field of political philosophy. It learns, and then teaches, that the way to get out cannot be the way we got in."
mircea_popescu: uh
pete_dushenski: ^more tawky, less do-ey
pete_dushenski: basically, they don't work from causes too well
mircea_popescu: well the quote salad certainly doesn't seem to mean anything
pete_dushenski: i spent a bit of time trying to grok them since they came across my desk this week and it's really quite challenging to find much positive in their thinking
pete_dushenski: but some of them seem to enjoy contravex so there's that
ben_vulpes: evening, pete_dushenski
mircea_popescu: well, by now more brands than people, so... not to worry.
pete_dushenski: howdy ben_vulpes
ben_vulpes: ca va?
ben_vulpes: how's biz?
pete_dushenski: bien sur :)
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu the number of brands these kids have is... shocking
pete_dushenski: apparently there's even something called neocameralism
pete_dushenski: which ended up on moldbug's lap
mircea_popescu: derived from that popular book on "cameral mind" ?
pete_dushenski: so i was recapping your old pieces on the matter
mircea_popescu: or parliamentary procedure this or the toher
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: have you read jaynes' original?
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes biz is going well. would be better with van ads ;)
ben_vulpes: haw, ain't no money in advertisements.
ben_vulpes: silly-con valley chumpatron con ojos
ben_vulpes: biz biz tho - how is it? buy any bonds?
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu good freaking question! maybe this http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2007/12/neocameralism-and-escalator-of.html ?
assbot: Unqualified Reservations: Neocameralism and the escalator of massarchy ... ( http://bit.ly/1IR7vyB )
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes nah, not really into that fiat thing, was really more just curious how easy/hard it'd be,
pete_dushenski: was hunting for an etf or fund, came up blank
mircea_popescu: massarchy ?
ben_vulpes: just out of curiosity, how do you procure bezzlebuxx?
pete_dushenski: massive monarchy!
pete_dushenski: massage anarchy!
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes the bare minimum
pete_dushenski: rounding corners and squeezing opportunities, to be as vague as humanly possible
pete_dushenski: i don't have a single stream, but many
ben_vulpes: classic joo :P
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes my guess is either he's running a high end brothel out of the preppy sluts he grew up with, or else he's living off teh fambly fortune.
ben_vulpes: my bet is that the cars blog poops out the odd benjamine
ben_vulpes: (that's what they call it in french canada, right?)
mircea_popescu: cars blog ?!
pete_dushenski: poop?
pete_dushenski: ya, we use that
ben_vulpes: !b 5 ✂︎
assbot: Last 5 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/390WKYC.txt )
pete_dushenski: car blog has actually been retired!
ben_vulpes: no wai
ben_vulpes: you'll offend mircea_popescu's linkrot sensibilities
pete_dushenski: for cereal
pete_dushenski: uh well... i can bring it back?
mircea_popescu: ;;google pete dushenski car blog
gribble: The Wallet Inspector's Promise | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski: <http://www.contravex.com/2014/02/27/the-wallet-inspectors-promise/>; Why It's Over For Litecoin | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski: <http://www.contravex.com/2014/06/17/why-its-over-for-litecoin/>; Adding Value To Bitcoin | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski: <http://www.contravex.com/2014/10/21/adding- (1 more message)
mircea_popescu: never happened.
ben_vulpes: naw, your intel's rotten.
pete_dushenski: if your intel is google
mircea_popescu: lalala i cnat hear you
ben_vulpes: or spell either
pete_dushenski: the car blog paid more in experiences anyways
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [] http://36.media.tumblr.com/769eacecb4e2f3ef24158d768aea710f/tumblr_mixnuyf1yc1rigqazo1_500.jpg << nice freckles
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1KTfvRM )
pete_dushenski: it was always a hobby
pete_dushenski: fly here, drive that, etc.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes yeah she's a cutie.
mircea_popescu: incidentally. in romanian cutie = box.
ben_vulpes: till you got kicked off the circuit lol
pete_dushenski: plus, i sorta got myself banned from a few press fleets after failing to tow the party line..
pete_dushenski: lol right
ben_vulpes: mhm.
ben_vulpes: but hey "tow the party line" at least you got a decent pun out of it
pete_dushenski: and now, who's gonna give contravex anything?
pete_dushenski: mebbe yellen gives me a foot rub ?
ben_vulpes: at least you're not stooping so far as to toe the clutch
mircea_popescu: lmao
pete_dushenski: towing is big here: truck country
pete_dushenski: i tell you it kills at the local comedy club!
ben_vulpes: <decimation> [] http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/01/17/vc_investment_hits_dotcom_boom_levels/ << annual silly-con valley vc funding is less than a single whatsapp
assbot: Venture Capital investment in Silicon Valley hits dot-com boom levels • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/1KTfJZ1 )
ben_vulpes: <assbot> [] Venture Capital investment in Silicon Valley hits dot-com boom levels • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/1IQpMME ) << task for eager student: calculate ROI for each VC firm based on known investments and exits
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1KTfJZa )
pete_dushenski: deja vu ?
ben_vulpes: easymoad: just use crunchbase, propose a decent discount factor
pete_dushenski: o nm
pete_dushenski: i confuse!
pete_dushenski: but we're neoreactionaries! we never exit!
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes better task : a dead pool / fucked company blog & stuff
ben_vulpes: "exit" acquisition/IPO value
pete_dushenski: "Neoreactionary socio-political solutions are ultimately Exit-based. In every case, exit is to be defended against voice. No society or social institution which permits free exit is open to any further politically efficient criticism, except that which systematic exit selection itself applies. Given the absence of tyranny (i.e. free exit), all forms of protest and rebellion are to be
pete_dushenski: considered leftist perversions, without entitlement to social protection of any kind." << i can't make this shit up
ben_vulpes: a new fucked company presumes someone who can "write" scathing..."blog posts"
ben_vulpes: qntra's the great white hopi afaict
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes jus' sayin for the log reader.
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski that is actually a valid point. certainly what i've been doing / saying.
pete_dushenski: hmm
mircea_popescu: take a simple example. "dude, get out of the us." "no, i'm going to write my senator."
punkman: ben_vulpes: http://www.seed-db.com/accelerators
assbot: Seed-DB | List of Seed Accelerator Programs ... ( http://bit.ly/1KTgcKS )
pete_dushenski: lol right
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> [] not without seven oceans' worth of parallelconstructiony-plausibledeniability << what was that apocryphal "nazi" dropped out of the plain with "papers" again?
ben_vulpes: punkman: make it stahp
ben_vulpes: okay jokesrs time
ben_vulpes: the shop is considering entering a local "hackathon"
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu basically, ignore the current institutions and their pretenses at anything, develop a new system exterior to it
ben_vulpes: (and by the shop i mean me and 51%)
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski pretty much.
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/how-to-deal-with-pseudoscience/ sort of thing
assbot: How to deal with pseudoscience ? pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1KTgi58 )
pete_dushenski: and if you don't like it gtfu
pete_dushenski: mya
ben_vulpes: notion being: show up; don't pitch; build hilaribad thing; present like seasoned shartup pros; clean up
mircea_popescu: also all that talk about unsheating your own conscience / not constructing your mental process as a reaction to bs / etc.
mircea_popescu: it's a lengthy thread with many branches
ben_vulpes: problem being nobody involved can figure if anyone involved with the charade will actually increase deal surface area
ben_vulpes: (in weird metaphor where shop has tentacles in gulf stream of deal flow)
mircea_popescu: waitwut
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [] Adlai that's the idea. looky here : gribble/wot was created a few years ago,. when btc was worth nothing and nobody bothered distinguishing between taaki and gavin. << oh we're distinguishing between taaki and gavin nao
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu "all that talk" << whose ?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: show up at amateur hour, crush competition with "fart app", accrue reputation points to drive dealflow.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes sure. one's mentally retarded. the other's nefarious.
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski mine. asciilifeform's. it's all over.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: we can't tell if the nefarious plan is retarded though.
mircea_popescu: yes, the mosquito and the gnat are both bugs.
mircea_popescu: and they both get killed. one tries to live off it tho. the other's just dumb.
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes no pitch ? how does that make sense ?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: hey man this is america, land of the scam.
ben_vulpes: have you learned nothing from clements?!
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: well the common pattern is "show up! recruit t34m! build thinger and or slideshow depending on what your idiots can muster!"
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu well ty for explaining :)
mircea_popescu: basically he's just getting laid
mircea_popescu: in a platonic sense
punkman: ben_vulpes, what kind of company is running it?
ben_vulpes: notion is to skip recruitment phase and just go directly to winning "competition" for arcane local rep
ben_vulpes: punkman: mine.
pete_dushenski: the "exit" terminology threw me off a bit but i certainly subscribe to the approach
punkman: the hackathon?
ben_vulpes: oh.
ben_vulpes: dunno man, you know where i live.
ben_vulpes: local calendars are trivially trollable, in the fishing sense.
punkman: well don't go to random hobo's hackathon what's the point
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28950 @ 0.00047072 = 13.6273 BTC [+] {3}
pete_dushenski: mebbe hobo only looks like hobo
mircea_popescu: so no hackathons ?
pete_dushenski: but is really grab master of cheese!
pete_dushenski: s/grab/grand
ben_vulpes: certainly smells funky
pete_dushenski: lol
ben_vulpes: grab asster, maybe
pete_dushenski: grab freckles
ben_vulpes: Adlai: coming to ars this spring? ☟︎
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: coming to ars this spring?
mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2rqLYB-kx0
assbot: youtube poop:cow&chicken King and Queen of cheese unfinished - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1KTgQYT )
pete_dushenski: am not!
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: why u no!?
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes friends just haaaad to get married that weekend
pete_dushenski: close friends too, too close
ben_vulpes: oh, your girl knows them huh
pete_dushenski: too close to miss their wedding at least
pete_dushenski: lol
pete_dushenski: we're all one big happy fambly :)
mircea_popescu: oh yeah which reminds me
mircea_popescu: $conference
ben_vulpes: have you boned the bride?
pete_dushenski: but i don't let them close to my fambly/harim money!
ben_vulpes: the fambly that fucks together...
pete_dushenski: drives a truck together?
ben_vulpes: to the gulag trucks together?
ben_vulpes: low hanging fruit lol
mircea_popescu: mebbe they're bonnet sisters.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu who was doing $conference bot again?
ben_vulpes: hue hue hue
mircea_popescu: (women that spent their adolescent years being fucked with their backs on the same car = bonnet sisters)
mircea_popescu: iirc FabianB
mircea_popescu: !up FabianB
ben_vulpes: I DON'T GET THE CEPHALAPOD JOKE
mircea_popescu: uh ?
mircea_popescu: neways, nn all!
ben_vulpes: <Adlai> [] maybe you should've called it cssipd
ben_vulpes: a wait its a c joke
pete_dushenski: cheers mp!
ben_vulpes: and i still dont get it
ben_vulpes: CESSPIT
pete_dushenski: of cooties
ben_vulpes: there've been a few bottles of wine, pete_dushenski
ben_vulpes: * asciilifeform [] has never worn or so much as touched a hat made from a rarer animal than rabbit << i cap out at elk
pete_dushenski: you celebrating a late orthodox christmas too ?
ben_vulpes: hm? no
ben_vulpes: christmas for me entails chinese food and skiing
pete_dushenski: skiing! this!
ben_vulpes: hm?
ben_vulpes: is this not the civilized sport?
pete_dushenski: lol of course it is
pete_dushenski: i was inelegantly saying that i too have spent a good number of christmas and boxings days on the slopes
pete_dushenski: :)
ben_vulpes: ah yeah
ben_vulpes: jewish christmas. 'tis a blessing.
pete_dushenski: chrismukkah, we actually had this
ben_vulpes: my parents tried to appease us with seven nights of tchotchkes
ben_vulpes: "FUCK THIS WHY AREN'T WE AT THE CABIN"
pete_dushenski: ;;ud tchotchkes
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Tchotchke | I'm going nuts with my mother's accumulation of tchotchkes - it's bad enough she never parted with one she got as a gift - but why did she have to buy more?
ben_vulpes: "no but channukah's not supposed to be a materialistic holiday, it's about murdering the roman--"
ben_vulpes: "I WANT TO SKI MOM"
pete_dushenski: "not until you've murdered your romans and finished your greens, benny"
ben_vulpes: my mom was actually one of those disappointed radicals from the sixties
ben_vulpes: "first, say 'all cops are filth', and then i'll consider taking us up the hill in the morning."
pete_dushenski: lmao
ben_vulpes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqG4oSfQYIY
assbot: George Mason University Green Machine plays Rage - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1KThSny )
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [] "apple is not a technology, apple is a vision" << oh jesus 51% sent me a bill to review in apple's proprietary spreadsheet format today
ben_vulpes: i'm still on 10.9, which has an outdated version of Pages
ben_vulpes: which cannot open "modern" "Pages" files
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2929 @ 0.00046904 = 1.3738 BTC [-]
pete_dushenski: time to get a personal computer for sanity and a work computer for insanity, neh?
ben_vulpes: i'm fighting iTunes' desire to back my phone up in triplicate (a 45GB project) to maintain a reasonably empty hdd
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: i'm not buying a non-Apple mobile computer
ben_vulpes: chassis buildout is unparalleled.
ben_vulpes: anyways, blew my stack on any number of fronts and then had to soothe 51% and myriad bystanders down.
pete_dushenski: hey i'm not about to come over there and make you do anything you don't wanna do
pete_dushenski: but just remember that in neoreactionary land, you can always exit
ben_vulpes: what are you running, windows on ferrari?
pete_dushenski: i keep them rolled down mostly
ben_vulpes: hang on i have to find the "my eyes rolled so far back they got stuck" emoji on this osxboard
pete_dushenski: i ran mac stuff, just not the latest
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [] in other news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdp651OV2N1rg712do1_500.jpg << at first i was like "hrrrrrm supa suspect knots" and then i was like "o damn that's a bukkit of immabouttogetrealcold"
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1KTilGh )
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [] http://collarspace.com/details.asp?px=sweetheartslave&bhcp=1
assbot: Hi! I just turned 18 in February and am really excited to be getting to try new things ^_^ I'm ... ( http://bit.ly/1KTisSu )
ben_vulpes: <assbot> [] Hi! I just turned 18 in February and am really excited to be getting to try new things ^_^ I'm ... ( http://bit.ly/1IQLTma )
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1KTis4S )
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [] i give you even money she's contributing to open source projects, doing his/their substitutions. << "she"?
ben_vulpes: well pete_dushenski since it's just you and i...
ben_vulpes: gotta say sir
ben_vulpes: sleep well
pete_dushenski: we dance!
pete_dushenski: or just sleep
pete_dushenski: ya, i'm ready for shuteye too
pete_dushenski: bon soir!
ben_vulpes: i can't imagine you're much of a follower
pete_dushenski: not ballroom!
ben_vulpes: i'm a wee picky about dance partners
pete_dushenski: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmpoC5gN_eA
assbot: Bottle Dancers Jewish dancers New York City - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1KTiDNF )
ben_vulpes: oh shit con4
pete_dushenski: you game or what ?
pete_dushenski: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuOhe7VsIoE << haha and here's how!
assbot: How Do They Do That? In studio w/Goodspeed's Fiddler on the Roof - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1KTiJok )
ben_vulpes: homie i grew up on la fille mal garde
pete_dushenski: you're not too old to learn!
pete_dushenski: anyways, let's call it a night
ben_vulpes: tefillin and all?
ben_vulpes: i can bring mine
pete_dushenski: it's a date
ben_vulpes: i'll need more than a few days of practice
ben_vulpes: good excuse to show up a week early
pete_dushenski: we're lords, we've got nothing but time ;)
pete_dushenski: aite, well that's all she wrote for me
pete_dushenski: g'night ben
ben_vulpes: alternatively, come to portland this summer in your downtime
ben_vulpes: night pete
fluffypony: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/01/15/codeplex_repository_out_of_favour_as_microsoft_moves_major_projects_to_github/
assbot: Microsoft snubs Codeplex, moves big projects to GitHub • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/1ugd1lP )
fluffypony: M$ really has become a different beast
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell pete_dushenski https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JshJMAnYHHo#t=1058
assbot: LA FILLE MAL GARDEE Mathilde Froustey Pierre Arthur Raveau - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1ugdvsb )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17100 @ 0.00046886 = 8.0175 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: fluffypony: "It will be so worth it,” enthuses Uhlenhuth. << downright lovecraftian, this
fluffypony: lol
ben_vulpes just watched too much LFMGD, now must flop organs around hausbox
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49800 @ 0.00046849 = 23.3308 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59213 @ 0.00046579 = 27.5808 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64650 @ 0.00045876 = 29.6588 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25099 @ 0.00045472 = 11.413 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50400 @ 0.00044744 = 22.551 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8200 @ 0.00044512 = 3.65 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72375 @ 0.00044338 = 32.0896 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2736 @ 0.00044234 = 1.2102 BTC [-]
fluffypony: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/police-busted-the-darknet-shopper-bots-stash
assbot: Police Busted the 'Darknet Shopper' Bot's Stash | Motherboard ... ( http://bit.ly/1CnvOjL )
fluffypony: so basically when breaking the law, just claim that it's "art"
fluffypony: brb going to rob a jewellery store for a piece I'm showing at the end of the year
punkman: fluffypony: I liked it
punkman: “The police were there specifically because of the ecstasy. For us, it is important that no one be able to get their hands on it.”
fluffypony: yeah I'm talking about the artist's reaction - "We believe that the confiscation is an unjustified intervention into freedom of art."
fluffypony: oh and Google finally killed off Glass (although I don't suspect they'll stop the research into wearables) ☟︎
punkman: thing was kinda DoA
fluffypony: pity, I was really looking forward to looking like an absolute tool in public all while filming everyone
thestringpuller: we need da self driving cars first
punkman: older cars without wifi and assorted shitgnomery are gonna be valuable
punkman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comics_Code_Authority#1954_Code_criteria
assbot: Comics Code Authority - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1CnyE8n )
punkman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hays_Code#Don.27ts_and_Be_Carefuls
assbot: Motion Picture Production Code - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1CnyG02 )
punkman: http://thejumbuckisalmostextinct.com/2009/12/cookies-by-douglas-adams/
assbot: ‘Cookies’ by Douglas Adams - Sam Cooney ... ( http://bit.ly/1ycab6w )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21300 @ 0.0004487 = 9.5573 BTC [+]
punkman: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7j9ugJIUAE0Bmx.png:large
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ycbi6j )
punkman: http://www.military-info.com/freebies/murphy.htm
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ycbnqs )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38350 @ 0.0004487 = 17.2076 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39800 @ 0.00045567 = 18.1357 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36800 @ 0.00044758 = 16.4709 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 81600 @ 0.00045535 = 37.1566 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30350 @ 0.00044758 = 13.5841 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10708 @ 0.00044234 = 4.7366 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28617 @ 0.00043979 = 12.5855 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24233 @ 0.00043183 = 10.4645 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 8 @ 0.13 = 1.04 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50362 @ 0.00044674 = 22.4987 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58400 @ 0.00042984 = 25.1027 BTC [-] {2}
Adlai actually got to use it once, since it's useless for selfies, which the glasshole required >> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-01-2015#982035 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 18-01-2015 11:38:55; fluffypony: oh and Google finally killed off Glass (although I don't suspect they'll stop the research into wearables)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35600 @ 0.00043643 = 15.5369 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.1295 = 1.295 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.1295 = 1.295 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: !up Zarathul
Zarathul: hi everyone, BingoBoingo thanks for the voice
Zarathul: I'm developing a lightweight MMORPG with crypto economy. and I'm looking for some feedback and alpha testers
Zarathul: we're going to do a common pool of winnings, for Bitcoin tipping/cash-outs, similar to Sarutobi
Zarathul: and we're working on making the in-game assets become crypto-assets
Zarathul: similar to what Lyth MMO does
Zarathul: hence, I thought this channel would be suitable to ask for feedback
Zarathul: anyone interested in taking a look? yes/no/maybe :)
danielpbarron: !gettrust Zarathul
assbot: Zarathul is not registered in WoT.
Zarathul: uhm, forgot to mention
Zarathul: I'm new to this channel
kakobrekla: hey there
Zarathul: hi
kakobrekla: ;;google lyth mmo
gribble: Lyth, the Nxt MMO - Nxt Forum: <https://nxtforum.org/lith-the-nxt-mmo/>; [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game - Nxt Forum: <https://nxtforum.org/index.php?topic=611.0>; Lyth - Building an Emergent Trade Game on the Blockchain: <https://lythmmo.com/>
Zarathul: yes, we're familiar with what they're doing. I'm not sure we'll go too much in the sandbox direction
Zarathul: long story short
Zarathul: this is the game
kakobrekla has nfi what are they doing
Zarathul: oh
kakobrekla: anyway you should prolly check in with mircea & s.mg
kakobrekla: and while he isnt here, you can get registered in the wot or something
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25552 @ 0.00044414 = 11.3487 BTC [+] {2}
Zarathul: yes, I've read the threads
danielpbarron: re what kako said: http://trilema.com/2013/its-called-eulora/
assbot: It's called Eulora pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Aw9wdm )
Zarathul: yep
Zarathul: just haven't met him online
Zarathul: didn't get a chance to talk, looking fwd to it
Zarathul: anyway
Zarathul: http://takeover.to/ currently Open Alpha, there's no sign of crypto economy yet, testing pure gameplay
assbot: TakeOver - The World - a location-aware browser game ... ( http://bit.ly/1Aw9Ete )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14048 @ 0.00045292 = 6.3626 BTC [+]
Zarathul: in the next major update, the yellow coins will be Satoshis, and the hexes will be crypto assets
kakobrekla: i wonder what will you do if anything with bots?
Zarathul: yeah, unsure :) it is an issue
Zarathul: but not a problem we've had yet, we're pretty early
Zarathul: so, there must be some game design workaround
kakobrekla: myea the 1 wheel car design also doesnt have problems until on road.
Zarathul: :)
Zarathul: I was wondering what the community thinks about crypto games with Bitcoin withdrawal and playing for crypto assets. and if they would play TakeOver
Zarathul: but it seems Sunday is not the most active time around this channel :)
kakobrekla: its still a little early
Zarathul: ok, I guess I'll try again later
kakobrekla: just stick around, people read logs
BingoBoingo: It might take a day or two for people interested asking questions to get to this part of the conversation.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20400 @ 0.00044011 = 8.9782 BTC [-] {2}
Zarathul: OK
BingoBoingo: !up Zarathul
Zarathul: :)
Zarathul: thanks
BingoBoingo: Adlai: Keep an eye out for anything qntrable at this thing.
xanthyos: Zarathul: looks like it has potential
xanthyos: correlate in-game gold for satoshis
xanthyos: i'd like to play monopoly with #b-a members if we could figure out a place to do the dice
TomServo: ;;dice 2d6
gribble: 5 and 5
TomServo: :)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12500 @ 0.00045292 = 5.6615 BTC [+]
xanthyos: TomServo: care to play monopoly? we can use our own boards and everyone gets to be the car
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70150 @ 0.00043691 = 30.6492 BTC [-]
xanthyos: still your turn TomServo
xanthyos: you're on just visiting
xanthyos: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7pBLn-IEAMExtC.jpg << memale washroom
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ufAvgO )
xanthyos: !up Zarathul
Adlai: BingoBoingo: garza's talk got cancelled, so i'm spending most of my time "networking"
BingoBoingo: Ah
kakobrekla: garza's talk got cancelled < scammer decided not to scam? what a scammer.
xanthyos: once your reptutation is that of a scammer the only way to continue scamming is not to scam and in doing so defy expectations; that being the scam.
Adlai: he's still here, paybase/hashnest logo everywhere, giving out free polo shirts at their booth, kickoff party had a giant paybase logo on the side of the hotel
Adlai: actually i didn't see him at the conference itself yesterday, but his goons from the kickoff party were hanging around, so i'm guessing he was there too
Adlai: so, while i'd love to write some english words, my time over the past two days has been spent speaking words and writing code, and today will likely be no different
Adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=18-01-2015#981898 << maybe i'll cover it for qntra ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 18-01-2015 08:29:31; ben_vulpes: Adlai: coming to ars this spring?
Adlai likes the idea of a conference where pitching is forbidden by default
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34218 @ 0.00045422 = 15.5425 BTC [+] {2}
Adlai -> conf day 2
TomServo: xanthyos: Perhaps another time
kakobrekla: see till end https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKP7jQknGjs
assbot: One of those days 2 - Candide Thovex - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/14SAm6y )
Zarathul: xanthyos: thanks!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65752 @ 0.00043806 = 28.8033 BTC [-]
kakobrekla: http://i.imgur.com/Ixa3q.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/14SCSK4 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14348 @ 0.00045013 = 6.4585 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51150 @ 0.00043259 = 22.127 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44756 @ 0.0004348 = 19.4599 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16896 @ 0.0004348 = 7.3464 BTC [+]
jurov: ;;later tell mircea_popescu deposits pls
gribble: The operation succeeded.
jurov: i should prolly make a bot
jurov: for reminding mircea
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26750 @ 0.00045765 = 12.2421 BTC [+]
mod6: ;;2d6
gribble: Error: "2d6" is not a valid command.
mod6: ;;dice 2d6
gribble: 3 and 4
mod6: we should be playin craps
mod6: any idea why one would want to remove Orphans from the map randomly instead of consecutively?
mod6: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/v0.9.0/src/main.cpp#L1068
assbot: bitcoin/main.cpp at v0.9.0 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1CoMreN )
mod6: what's the benifit here?
jurov: tried to blame it?
mod6: naw, just (stupidly) trying to understand danebramige
jurov: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/bbde1e99c893924dbef135f42c14f4df9828c6e5
assbot: Limit the number of orphan blocks · bbde1e9 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1sRe7sR )
mod6: hrm.
mod6: anyway, im looking at this stuff way up in 0.9.0 because im still trying to get a read on why when you sync the blockchain from genesis to current the R.I. chews through all of its memory until it causes a SIGKILL from out of memory.
mod6: im looking into these mapOrphanBlocks data structures as they basically go unchecked for size in 0.5.3.
jurov: they decided to keep only 750 orphans and thus had to come out with algo to prune them
mod6: yea
mod6: so we /might/ need to add something similar... but im not positive that this is actually the issue yet.
jurov: if they didn't chase the performance and went with real database, one'd just create another table for orphans
mod6: i added some debug code to main.cpp and am now syncing the chain, seeing how many orphans are in the map, every time it finds an orphanblock in ProcessBlock
mod6: XXX ProcessBlock: mapOrphanBlocks.size(): 4206
jurov: how long is one entry?
mod6: it goes up and down a bit, but has been hovering in around 4k orphans.. im at about 185xxx blocks
mod6: it depends.
mod6: haven't added anything for that yet.
mod6: we do know that it must be < 1Mb
mod6: hi
mircea_popescu: heya
jurov: mod6 <265k
mod6: why 256?
jurov: nm, yes it's 1m
jurov: regardless of if it is the case, is it feasible ddos scenario to generate lots of orphans for old blocks?
mod6: yeah
mod6: so there was a check in 0.5.3 that requires checkpoints for this, which i removed in the rm_checkpoints patch
mod6: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/v0.5.3/src/main.cpp#L1442
assbot: bitcoin/main.cpp at v0.5.3 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1CoQMyA )
mod6: which is that block
mod6: 1442->1463
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski: "not until you've murdered your romans and finished your greens, benny" << hahahaha
mod6: and in forward versions, there are a variety of other checks for orphan spam other than that.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes so why not bring mom here ?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes: what are you running, windows on ferrari? << bwahahaha these two. should be cuffed together, endrunkened to 115% and dropped on a sound stage.
mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ksw9C1-pY2g lmao
assbot: - Rabbi Jacob dance - Bar Mitsva Daniel (5).avi - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1sRk2ye )
mircea_popescu: !up felipelalli
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31150 @ 0.00045488 = 14.1695 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: fluffypony: microsoft_moves_major_projects_to_github/ << heh. github as-is is actually precisely fit for microsoft.
mircea_popescu: ms has not become a different beast. what used to be foss has decayed to the level one can't distinguish it from microsoft anymore.
mircea_popescu: !up sgornick
mircea_popescu: sgornick can you self voice ?
mircea_popescu: “On the morning of January 12, the day after the three-month exhibition was closed, the public prosecutor's office of St. Gallen seized and sealed our work. It seems, the purpose of the confiscation is to impede an endangerment of third parties through the drugs exhibited by destroying them. This is what we know at present. We believe that the confiscation is an unjustified intervention into freedom of art.”
mircea_popescu: lol !Mediengruppe Bitnik causing trouble eh.
mircea_popescu: fluffypony: so basically when breaking the law, just claim that it's "art" << you will notice that they merely bought random items. this illustrates the solid point that the notion that buying items can be made illegal implies buying itself was made illegal, through this randomness device.
sgornick: mircea_popescu, Yes, I can successfully !up in a PM to assbot to get voice.
mircea_popescu: not entirely without merit.
mircea_popescu: sgornick a cool.
sgornick: Just popping in to suggest someone here reply to this: https://twitter.com/craignewmark/status/556868720883032064
assbot: Maybe the blockchain could be the basis of a global "web of trust" and that could be an hugely big deal. https://t.co/jaQC4zLSuT
mircea_popescu: fluffypony there's a lot of challenges to the quaint notions of what the state has the authority to do to be brought through deploying the much more widely avaialble powers of math. situation somewhat similar to, while currently a government may claim for itself the right to legislate as to the albedo of undiscovered stars, once they're discovered that's gone.
mircea_popescu: sgornick tbh, it's kind of how it goes, that various social media heads put up on whatever social media thing bits and pieces of what they've read in year-old logs here.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron occasionally chases it.
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: that's an entirely separate issue to "I choose to live in your house and abide by your rules...except when it doesn't suit and I can just claim 'art' instead"
mircea_popescu: fluffypony it is the government that lives in their house, not vice-versa.
fluffypony: artists don't have particularly big guns ;)
mircea_popescu: now this is an entirely differnet point indeed :)
mircea_popescu: and if you recall, i'm actually against "free drugs". but that doesn't change they don't have much of a logical standpoint.
mircea_popescu: to use the "on terrorism" apparatus, obviously a state can try to support itself on both process of law and terrorism. some, like stalin's , actually succeeded. it's dubious one can succeed without a stalin to o it tho. i dun see bureaucrats were ever born able to pull it off.
mircea_popescu: *: Adlai actually got to use it once, since it's useless for selfies, which the glasshole required << all you need's a mirror neh ?
pete_dushenski: danielpbarron fixt! thx!
mircea_popescu: Zarathul: I'm developing a lightweight MMORPG with crypto economy. and I'm looking for some feedback and alpha testers << ever heard of s.mg ? also, iirc DreadKnight is doing something similar.
mircea_popescu: you could prolly also say hi in #eulora (s.mg's mmorp in development irc room)
Adlai: all you need's a mirror neh ? << but then your selfie immortalizes you a glasshole
mircea_popescu: right.
mircea_popescu: shoot a bullet hole through mirror, take your pic, title the result "glasshole through looking glass with hole"
mircea_popescu: now that's art.
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell ben_vulpes c'est beau!
gribble: The operation succeeded.
Adlai: thx for fucking up !b 2
mircea_popescu: i guess once bitcoin fails i'll run a slavegirl harem / art collective.
pete_dushenski: anytime?
asciilifeform doesn't get the whole 'glasshole' meme. carrying a pNohe everywhere, with its two or three cameras pointed every-which-way, is somehow perfectly civilized; but wearing a threadbare camera on your head, not ?
pete_dushenski: adlai pretty sure there's ways to grab text and submit for bashage ;)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you don't understand how social works work. so : if anyone can get one, it's ok. if it becomes apparent not everyone will have one, it's not.
Adlai: if it can't be done thru assbot i don't wanna hear about it
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform one is normalised, one "too obvious"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that was my impression
mircea_popescu: it's EXACTLY what it is.
mircea_popescu: if the fashion looks like it doesn't have the steam, backlash prevails.
mircea_popescu: otherwise, backlash doesn't.
pete_dushenski: it's not clear to me why everyone couldn't have a glasshole
mircea_popescu: which is why the notion that social discussion is argument driven is just so much rubbish. which is why conde nast wants reddit and the new york times moved to publishing pics and tweets.
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski because they suck.
pete_dushenski: they might not want one, but the thing's for sale
Adlai always thought "glasshole" was less about carrying a camera everywhere, more about constantly having your screen open
pete_dushenski: too much bezzlars eh
mircea_popescu: right, but the headcount that'll NEVER wear them is large enough
mircea_popescu: so it fails.
asciilifeform: there was a fairly detailed discussion here in #b-a re: why ocular displays which don't suck have been costing the same 100k usd since 1985.
asciilifeform: and aren't about to stop.
mircea_popescu: i recall that convo.
pete_dushenski: but the knock-off market, like that for lv purses, should fill that demand
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski point is it's not a demand.
asciilifeform: !s kopin
assbot: 1 results for 'kopin' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=kopin
asciilifeform: it's a 'demand' of pretty much one guy, yours truly, who wants to program in bed.
asciilifeform: hence - no demand.
pete_dushenski: only because it never seemed "premium" just creepy
mircea_popescu: consider how it works. take an island of 100 people, of which 5 boys and 6 girls under 30, 10 boys and 11 girls under 40. now, one day the fashion is for girls to wear clothes with a hole over left nipple, so it's always exposed.
mircea_popescu: 15 boys like this. if 9 girls hate it, it'll become a "civil rights" issue, but happen anyway.
mircea_popescu: if 3 girls hate it, it'll become a tradition.
mircea_popescu: had 9 boys hated it, it'd have become a google glass.
pete_dushenski: so >90% boys like a toy --> fashion!
mircea_popescu: pretty much.
mircea_popescu: > 25% or so hate it --> doomed.
pete_dushenski: 30-90% and who knows
pete_dushenski: hmm
mircea_popescu: yea actuall this can be the 30-90% rule.
pete_dushenski: i can see it
mircea_popescu: note obviously that all this applies to flat, ie, non hierarchical situations, like what to wear.
pete_dushenski: the fashions of the peoples
mircea_popescu: in hierarchical situations, once ford decides to order his lieutenant to mine a hill because he sees rust on it,
mircea_popescu: that's that, ecology is now a thing.
mircea_popescu: all it takes there is one. one jobs for everyone from samsung to chinaxxx to make ipads
mircea_popescu: etc.
pete_dushenski: heh ya
pete_dushenski: jobs asked zero people how many fucks they gave
pete_dushenski: "here's what you need now"
pete_dushenski: and voila
pete_dushenski: bell bottom jeans, on the other hand
mircea_popescu: which is why teenaged girls with little sex experience but nice tits and barbiedoll face tend to go into "fashion design", whereas fat dudes with an acne problem tend to flock to busienss school.
mircea_popescu: actually i guess it's mostly "pr" now. same deal, "you need css for your website, you need tanga slips for your barbie"
pete_dushenski: so fat dudes with acne aren't in to fashions?
mircea_popescu: too many people dislike them, so they'd never make it.
pete_dushenski: that's a point
mircea_popescu: there's this ancient observation that bright young lads do not "choose their field of research", they merely go with the first direction where they happen to have some success.
pete_dushenski: there's something to be said for having society show you the door early on
mircea_popescu: this is true of people generall.
pete_dushenski: path of least resistance
pete_dushenski: same as following fashions
pete_dushenski: it's much harder to carve your own niche in this regard as well
mircea_popescu: kinda why it's the job of parents to send the popular girl to live naked with the pigs for a summer , and respectively force the acne boy to dance naked in gay bars the same summer.
mircea_popescu: or somesuch. i dunno, not a parent, use salt.
pete_dushenski: basically, throwing children into the fire is +ev
pete_dushenski: little bit of stress does the system wonders
pete_dushenski: it either breaks them, in which case, try again
pete_dushenski: or it makes them, in which case you now have your retirement plan sorted
mircea_popescu: xanthyos: TomServo: care to play monopoly? we can use our own boards and everyone gets to be the car << i always play the hat!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54700 @ 0.00045942 = 25.1303 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski of course, they might not like you anymore.
pete_dushenski: so sophistakated!
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu this'd only be a problem if you thought that parents = friends
pete_dushenski: and still, there's no guarantee that they'll like you if you coddle them either
mircea_popescu: Adlai: he's still here, paybase/hashnest logo everywhere, giving out free polo shirts at their booth, kickoff party had a giant paybase logo on the side of the hotel << because "advertisin fixes everything" "we're creating awareness".
mircea_popescu: speaking of which : because somethingawful forums keeps driving people to trilema, i started a banner campaign there.
pete_dushenski: heh nice
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/lol.png << this being the banner.
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1KU0VcQ )
Adlai: there's a booth at this conference, advertising for another conference. they're giving out free stress balls, those bouncy nerf foam tennisballsized things you can squeeze... over the course of the day, corners get filled up with these garbages
Adlai: they win the best advertising award
mircea_popescu: it produced ~400 clicks in 24 hours. which i imagine it's about 100% of everyone that set eyes on it.
kakobrekla: Adlai pics ?
Adlai: what is with everybody and pictures
mircea_popescu: yeah Adlai this blogging sucks.
Adlai: "blogging"
mircea_popescu: that's no excuse!
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu great success
kakobrekla: i just wanna have something to show when ppl come asking where gaw money went
mircea_popescu: adlai meets girl at party. she drags him to upstairs bedroom. they go at it. after a while, she's "adlai, this fucking sucks!" and he retorts calmly
mircea_popescu: "fucking"
Adlai: "suck!"
mircea_popescu: lol
pete_dushenski: peeople expect the "you are rich, just click here to claim your winnings" shtick, but "you are poor" is just genius
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski im just an asshole, whadda i know.
pete_dushenski: uh business ?
pete_dushenski: how to confuze noobs ?
mircea_popescu: ok, those two
pete_dushenski: it's a start
mircea_popescu: three! THREE SECRET WEAPONS!
Adlai: "the fact that it attracts so many scammers is a complement to bitcoin"
pete_dushenski: the wmdcoin
pete_dushenski: ^#3
mircea_popescu: Adlai they meant compliment ?
Adlai: yes, typo
mircea_popescu: the balls are a complement to your cock ; the wow's you hear are compliments to your cock.
mircea_popescu: ahk
Adlai: this is from jeffrey tucker, the only speaker who hasn't used a slideshow
Adlai: he's just bouncing around on stage waxing euphoric about the rocketship
mircea_popescu: i can see the point anyway. the wasps are a compliment to the grapes and the flies to the dead donkey.
Adlai: exactly
Adlai: if nobody's trying to steal it, it's probably not worth stealing
mircea_popescu: it all depends whether you're waspivorous or shitflyvorous
Adlai: there's a real estate booth here, and a yacht booth. they have nothingc to do with bitcoin except accepting it as payment.
mircea_popescu: lol. sold anything ?
pete_dushenski: time to go for a little cruise. cheers
Adlai: doubtful, seen a price ticker lately?
Adlai: they're probably more likely to make a sale if they put up a sign saying they don't take bitcoin
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: mod6: so we /might/ need to add something similar... but im not positive that this is actually the issue yet. << i don't see how concurrent chains would cause memory outages.
mircea_popescu: jurov: regardless of if it is the case, is it feasible ddos scenario to generate lots of orphans for old blocks? << yes.
mircea_popescu: !up Zarathul
Adlai: there shouldn't be any problem incorporating headers-first mitigation of that ddos vector
mircea_popescu: how'd that go ?
Adlai: "If you think bitcoin people are passionate about bitcoin, you should see how passionate cannabis people are about cannabis"
mircea_popescu: alternatively, you should see how passionate self-mutilating idiots are about "transgender"
mircea_popescu: politicians about lying, journalists about being stupid, on it goes.
Adlai knows a few, not sure how passionate they are about the transition itself
Adlai: it's a rather shitty process
Adlai: lol this guy's roadmap for bitcoin adoption: cannabis, gun dealers, and then "pilates instructors, masseuses, and anybody else who doesn't want to pay a single dollar to the IRS"
mircea_popescu: point being, whoever finds something fundamental and builds his mental representation of life on top of it is going to act like someone who's built his mental representation of life on top of it.
mircea_popescu: Adlai generally a good indication that all he does is smoke pot, and watch dudes firing guns and chicks doing yoga in yoga pants on youtube.
Adlai: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Filipowski
assbot: Andrew Filipowski - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1KU2OGp )
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6: so we /might/ need to add something similar... but im not positive that this is actually the issue yet. << i don't see how concurrent chains would cause memory outages. << well, there is a container that holds these orphan blocks unchecked in v0.5.3. if this actually is related to the R.I. chewing through all its ram, perhaps a limit should be introduced.
mircea_popescu: jurov: i should prolly make a bot << it's been up to date ?
Adlai: it's rather refreshing to hear this guy say that most of teh previous talks (xapo et al) are a total waste of time and detrimental to bitcoin
asciilifeform: 'Filipowski was the 1998 recipient of the Anti-Defamation League's Torch of Liberty Award, first for the Silicon Prairie (Chicago), for his support in fighting hate on the Internet.'
mod6: anyway, i'm gonna keep debugging this thing. will give updates.
mircea_popescu: mod6 but a) a block can no longer be an orphan once the block at the height it disputes has its coinbases spendable ; b) the sum total of orphans to date isn't, if memory serves, 8gb.
Adlai: you guys would like this talk, he just spent ~3 minutes talking about how americans can't read anymore
mircea_popescu: we interrupt this program for a special announcement from the better blowjob bureau : http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mc7uh3K9uU1rjs43ho1_500.gif
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1KU3co8 )
mod6: ahh ok, well, in relation to "b", i've seen this SIGKILL/OOM problem on a local vm with 1Gb of ram, and an AWS VM with 2Gb of ram.
mircea_popescu: mod6 actually this would be a good datapoint to compute. find out the sum total of orphans to date.
Adlai: "sure, there are people who still buy LPs, audiophiles dedicated to authentic sounds... but the US dollar is more like an 8-track tape"
mircea_popescu: in what way ?
Adlai: worthless crap
mircea_popescu: so what's the lp, gold ?
mircea_popescu: this is such a dumb metaphor.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 actually this would be a good datapoint to compute. find out the sum total of orphans to date. << noted. will see what I can come up with.
kakobrekla: btw if someone is curious why empty blocks are still mined, its because of network propagation and orphans.
kakobrekla: the math tells them better to drop tx than to take additional risk or an orphan
mircea_popescu: that can't be a problem because internet doubles every year
kakobrekla: of an orphan*
mircea_popescu: (conservatively0
kakobrekla: miner could have a bad connection
kakobrekla: for example that 100k usd fury rack was connected to the internet via 3 mobile phone connections back in the day.
mircea_popescu: "Having said that, the main reason I've never heard of him is probably that I mostly ignore Bitcoin current affairs, because its design flaws will eventually kill it. The key ideas behind the technology are epoch-makingly brilliant, but the trouble with any distributed P2P system - the thing that kills most of them in the end - is that for any given design flaw, there are people who benefit from it, and those people wi
mircea_popescu: ll fork the network to keep it. Eventually, the network will cease to have utility because it will be too small and then it will die. The three specific things that will ultimately kill Bitcoin are the limit on the number of coins, the lack of any kind of value anchor, and the absence of compulsory transaction fees. "
mircea_popescu: dude where would we be without bitcoin experts that built their expertise on ignorance!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25322 @ 0.00046409 = 11.7517 BTC [+] {2}
Adlai: !up TheNewDeal
mircea_popescu: bless his soul. "bitcoin is bad because no government to inflate it, no government to posture about it, no government to tax it".
asciilifeform: trololol.
TheNewDeal: So I aithed through gribble and then assbot is sending me some separate link when I try for !Up. Is it just like the gribble auth process?
mircea_popescu: TheNewDeal just decode the otp and send !v decodedotp
mircea_popescu: gribble auth no longer used/required for assbot voice.
TheNewDeal: Roger that
mircea_popescu: discussion on the 16th logs.
ben_vulpes: good morning, arsonists
mircea_popescu: i only rape and pillage.
ben_vulpes: Zarathul: http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?t=252647 << that's your inspiration? and is lith playable anywhere?
assbot: Universal SaruTobi - Touch Arcade ... ( http://bit.ly/1yx9Nyu )
ben_vulpes: http://bitcoinmagazine.com/18128/meet-sarutobi-the-flying-bitcoin-collecting-monkey/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+BitcoinMagazine+%28Bitcoin+Magazine%29 << tee hee
assbot: Database Error ... ( http://bit.ly/1yx9OlW )
Adlai: ENOTRACK
asciilifeform: http://www.spiegel.de/media/media-35674.pdf << usg's gossipd.
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1yxawjd )
asciilifeform: (or, not quite, but they want one. review of relevant maths, etc.)
mircea_popescu: heh
mircea_popescu: is this new ?
asciilifeform: from the spiegel thing
asciilifeform: in that sense - new
asciilifeform: but if it was in snowden's arse capsule, it is not 'new' in the usual sense of the word
mircea_popescu: aha
jurov: mircea_popescu: it's okay i forgot it's another account. derp :(
jurov: no bots needed
mircea_popescu: mebbe i make an android sexbot to come to your place and disturb your thoughts
jurov: imo assbot haunts me sufficiently
mircea_popescu: lol
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://imgur.com/EdLych8 << even this was in there.
assbot: imgur: the simple image sharer ... ( http://bit.ly/1yxbax8 )
jurov: !mpif
assbot: BtcAlpha.com F.MPIF Tracker estimated NAV per share: 0.00021389 B (Total: 467.74 B). Delta: -1.46 B. Last trade for F.MPIF on MPEX was at 0.0002 BTC [-]
jurov: ;;calc 21389/1.01
gribble: 21177.2277228
jurov: ;;calc 21389*1.01
gribble: 21602.89
TheNewDeal: ;;nethash
gribble: 312060730.861
TheNewDeal: ;;ident TheNewDeal
gribble: Nick 'TheNewDeal', with hostmask 'TheNewDeal!~TheNewDea@unaffiliated/thenewdeal', is not identified.
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [] ben_vulpes so why not bring mom here ? << well now she's full-bore communist. notrly good company for the asshats.
hanbot: could be fun...
ben_vulpes: myeah i've read asylum
ben_vulpes: think i'll reserve the right to fuck with my mom's head for myself
hanbot: isn't that incestuous?
hanbot: it should be a stranger.
ben_vulpes: winding up one's own mother's an acquired taste.
TheNewDeal: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 339544 | Current Difficulty: 4.397166205608958E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 340703 | Next Difficulty In: 1159 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 13 hours, 48 minutes, and 14 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 42674274810.8 | Estimated Percent Change: -2.95051
ben_vulpes: plus there's a bit of "that's my little brother, only i get to bully him around"
hanbot: she's younger than you?!
davout: wtf am i reading
hanbot: hi frenchie
ben_vulpes is time traveling
davout: hai hanbot
TheNewDeal: faster then normal?
TheNewDeal: or just the regular 1/sec/sec traveling pace
hanbot: all that caffeine...
ben_vulpes: barely through the first cup yet
mircea_popescu: lmao hanbot onslaught
ben_vulpes: it's too much!
ben_vulpes: hanslaught
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: "and suddenly, totally out of everyone's left field, chtulu"
hanbot: well now i know what my name'll be if i ever wwf
davout: mircea_popescu: LOL
mircea_popescu: i think wrestling's called something else now.
ben_vulpes: i think wrestling is still called wrestling.
TheNewDeal: not when cthulu is involved
mircea_popescu: they basically rebrand it each decade, so 10yos can all have their own.
ben_vulpes: no no
ben_vulpes: wrestling
ben_vulpes: is still wrestling
ben_vulpes: words don't just *lose* their meaning mircea_popescu sheesh
TheNewDeal: just finished Case of Dextar Ward, anyone read that?
TheNewDeal: short by Lovecraft
mircea_popescu: WWE, was previously known as the "World Wrestling Federation" or "WWF" from 1979 to 2002
TheNewDeal: I think they combined at some point, and then split up again
mircea_popescu: so i guess hanbot was nine prior to 2002
mircea_popescu: tbh that;s dubious, i recall a "nitro" something
ben_vulpes: iirc they got sued by the world wildlife foundation
hanbot: lol acronyms are ip nao too?!
mircea_popescu: always were.
asciilifeform: http://imgur.com/zQO5zhc
assbot: run moar winblows - Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1GfJwvm )
TheNewDeal: Actually it looks like they're still contained under one parent company. IPO'd under "WWE" on the nyse
mircea_popescu: Bitcoin 0.8.5 or later is required << apparently p2pool is asshats.
ben_vulpes: oh goodie another thing to rewrite
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform re previous imgur : wtf is that kindergarten shit.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ask'em
mircea_popescu: nobody there to stand up and tell them where to stick that shit /
asciilifeform: aha
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31500 @ 0.00045488 = 14.3287 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [] if the fashion looks like it doesn't have the steam, backlash prevails. << i wonder if Apple has the steel to pull off their watch play.
TheNewDeal: ;;market --buy 10000
gribble: Bitstamp | A market order to buy 10000 bitcoins right now would take 2613072.8741 USD and would take the last price up to 400.0000 USD, resulting in an average price of 261.3073 USD/BTC. | Data vintage: 0.0116 seconds
asciilifeform suggests that after folks are tired of 'smart watches', which proved that it is possible to build a device even more cramped/antiergonomic than a pNohe - electronics vendors should build touch screens in pencil erasers.
asciilifeform: 'smartpencil' !
TheNewDeal: someone just gave me one of those pens with the electromagnetic tip that works with touchscreens, great for reducing fat-fingers
ben_vulpes somewhat misses the stylexen
TheNewDeal: not returning results on google. what is it?
ben_vulpes: stylus*
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes prolly not.
mircea_popescu: nah, in eyeglass lenses.
mircea_popescu: which they tried.
ben_vulpes: not viable yet.
ben_vulpes: requires drawing on the retina to work properly imho.
mircea_popescu: i kinda have high hopes once the foldable screens come into their own
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: was viable in 1985.
mircea_popescu: they'll make girl stockings ouf of the things
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: see earlier thread.
ben_vulpes frowns
ben_vulpes: i thought i was reasonably well acquainted with that thread
ben_vulpes: don't the eyeglass lenses have a focus at infinity problem?
ben_vulpes: as in needing to switch between focusing on something in front of one and focusing on the screen?
asciilifeform: incidentally, the security implications of a good head-worn computer display suggest that no such thing will be permitted to exist while usg has any say on the subject.
mircea_popescu: uh ?
mircea_popescu: !up Vince12432e
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34317 @ 0.00046641 = 16.0058 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: head-worn displays are considered, by usg, to be key military tech (all existing manufacturers of serious - i.e. svga and above units - supply usg exclusively) ☟︎
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they are mostly, but not exclusively, issued to jet pilots
asciilifeform: (a variant for infantry was, last i heard, in the works, but mired in an f35-esque bureaucratic treacle)
mircea_popescu: the russians use them . the chinese use them.
mircea_popescu: they cost a shitton.
asciilifeform: they were not, last i checked, sop in any russian machine.
mircea_popescu: the new sukhoi thing has them from what i recall.
asciilifeform: now, 'heads-up' displays - yes
asciilifeform: but not the same!
asciilifeform: 'heads-up' projects onto the glass. snore.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the difference might simply be explained by price. so, if a car costs 20-30k and a supercar 200 to 300k, whereas a jet fighter 20 to 30 mn,
mircea_popescu: it stands to reason tech available to one is not available to the other.
mircea_popescu: because it'd cost more than the fucking car.
asciilifeform: except that the 'magic' of a microdisplay is entirely one silicon die.
asciilifeform: could easily cost a penny.
asciilifeform: every year i go to my local university's tech exhibit. there is always this one greybeard who runs their si fab, and he has some old wafers, etc. he also has a 'look in this box and press red button.' inside: svga display with graphics demo. the stamp on the box is some time in the '90s.
asciilifeform: i ask him, 'can this be had?' greybeard: 'nope. project killed by upper management.'
asciilifeform: (box was approx. the size of a deck of cards.)
asciilifeform: it took me many years to realize why svga ocular display cannot be had at price below a 'boeing.' not because miniaturized led is dark magic.
asciilifeform: and not because of the patent trolls - they are merely the weapon, not the wielder
asciilifeform: it's a straight usg thing.
asciilifeform: not even entirely usg. none of the wealthy mega-army states really want inexpensive partizan-warfare aids on the shelf.
jurov: kakobrekla: assbot definitely stopped reporting divs?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "could cost a penny". well... how'd they make money then ?
davout: mircea_popescu: see you published, nice! reading nao
asciilifeform: same way the folks who make 8051 microcontrollers, etc. make money.
mircea_popescu: davout aye.
asciilifeform: be chinese, have massive scale.
mircea_popescu: apparently they don't like that business model.
asciilifeform: the puzzle is not about what they like or dislike, but why they even get asked.
mircea_popescu: because they own it ?
asciilifeform: puzzle is - why no usurpers.
mircea_popescu: cause idiot females too busy with "transgender friends" and idiot males too busy reading moldbug.
asciilifeform: mr mold has the saving grace of at least being a finite quantity.
mircea_popescu: does cardano not exist on shelf because usg ?
asciilifeform admits he read all of it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39800 @ 0.00045449 = 18.0887 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform does not blame usg for everything
mircea_popescu: but same moidel. useful item with market that doesn't exist for public.
mircea_popescu: public is apparently happy with trezor and glass.
asciilifeform: [insert the ancient threads re: toy keyboards, etc.]
asciilifeform: !s four ring
assbot: 2 results for 'four ring' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=four+ring
mircea_popescu: think about it the other way. a display is merely a display. it works on information. if the information is all in a box, then you're probably not a very good partizan. more of a hacker. "playing the harmonica" so to speak.
mircea_popescu: if the informtion comes on a wire, the eye piece is the least vulnerable place.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-12-2013#429394 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 22-12-2013 16:56:53; asciilifeform: 'what people “want” is a function of what they learn is available. e.g., do Americans want three-ring binders, and Europeans four-ring binders? or do they want binders and take whatever number of holes they come with? or do they want something that can help them organize their papers and take whatever is available? or do they really want a less cluttered office and ease of storage and retrieval of the
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the point was not about optical snooping, etc. mundane fact is that the number one application for svga ocular is really partizan infantry.
mircea_popescu: like how ?
asciilifeform: display maps, secure comms, targeting aids
mircea_popescu: partizan infantry is not that much about targeting, or maps.
asciilifeform: signals intelligence on enemy (how'd you like to see into em spectrum?)
mircea_popescu: in fact, it'd help the invader more than the partizans.
mircea_popescu: you wouldn't.
mircea_popescu: you might, at home, in armchair. and that you can presently do.
mircea_popescu: out in the field, you much prefer seeing in visible.
asciilifeform: you would if searching for the loud obnoxious american radio
asciilifeform: the 'doom'-playing privates, etc.
mircea_popescu: not your job to search for that.
mircea_popescu: most targetting needs both eyes. to propose that poking a man in one is doing his targetting a service...
mircea_popescu: first thging you teach idiot kids. "don't close your eye. don't squint"
asciilifeform: nooo
asciilifeform: not the idiot google monocular.
mircea_popescu: even as the jet fighter overlay thing.
asciilifeform: actual high-res overlay for both eyes, with everything that would normally come in sans oculars plus the extra.
mircea_popescu: that only works if you have the network.
mircea_popescu: you know ? just like the jet is not a self contained machine.
asciilifeform: sure
mircea_popescu: so is that thing not self contained.
mircea_popescu: well... then its existence is not where it'd be attacked.
asciilifeform: even if sole purpose is to zero in on enemy rf, still useful
asciilifeform: just as thermovisor is useful
mircea_popescu: thermovisor is only useful at night, and only worn at night
mircea_popescu: audibo much more useful for closing in on position.
scoopbot: New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/open-the-gavin-assassinsen-memorial-mining-pool-implementation/
mircea_popescu: (thing does a stereo *ping* in the direction in question)
asciilifeform: http://wediefordesign.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/war_tubas_01.jpg << obligatory
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1xHN7aU )
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: yup. were these the steam ones ?
asciilifeform: passive
asciilifeform: acoustic stereolocators
asciilifeform: fella sits inside, hose in each ear.
asciilifeform: ww1 tech.
mircea_popescu: oh those
mircea_popescu: they had some noise makers too
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23000 @ 0.00045281 = 10.4146 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: undata davout so was one of you two picking up deedbot ?
davout: yup
mircea_popescu: well which ? :D
davout: i think both
undata: I'm hacking on it today
davout: i started toying with it a bit, apparently undata too
davout: six implementations later
mircea_popescu: inasmuch as there's really only going to be one, this may be counterproductive. you want it resolved ?
undata: sure, if there's a prefered party that's fine with me
undata: I'm just taking the spec as is, implementing around the go bot afore-linked
davout: i've poured 2~3 hours in it so far, so either way is fine with me
mircea_popescu: ok well, inasmuch undata is new and this isn't really very hard, let him do it then, gain some cred. ☟︎
davout: sounds good!
undata: thanks, figured I'd make myself useful for once
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47200 @ 0.00045553 = 21.501 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40913 @ 0.00044943 = 18.3875 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mb8gg6rCte1qhc0d2o1_500.jpg dimple or no dimple ?
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1xHSYgl )
mod6: dimple
ben_vulpes: no dimple
ben_vulpes: hey whose idea was it to prevent the network from relaying transactions outside of the context of blocks and was it really that good of an idea?
davout: undata: i wouldn't mind sharing the work i did so far, but you don't seem so keen on ruby
undata: davout: appreciate it; however nah I'm not
ben_vulpes: getdata is used in response to inv, to retrieve the content of a specific object, and is usually sent after receiving an inv packet, after filtering known elements. It can be used to retrieve transactions, but only if they are in the memory pool or relay set - arbitrary access to transactions in the chain is not allowed to avoid having clients start to depend on nodes having full transaction indexes (which modern nodes do not).
davout: what are you building it in, out of curiosity?
undata: davout: I'd take a peak if you like
undata: *peek
undata: davout: probably go, the bot I'm working with is in go
davout: i had all the easter eggs already done :D
undata: the bot comes with example services in python, but I'm prety "meh" on gevent as well
undata: man my spelling has been deplorable today
ben_vulpes frowns
ben_vulpes: my bouncer seems to be dropping lines
undata: ben_vulpes: dat znc
ben_vulpes: grr
ben_vulpes: i do not want to drop 3 hours on fiddling my bouncer again.
ben_vulpes: but tooling's important.
davout: setting up znc was a painful experience
ben_vulpes: the requirement to configure it through the running instance is batshit
davout: "ohai, i'm a config file, pls to not edit"
ben_vulpes: yeah, fuck yourselves.
kakobrekla: eh?
kakobrekla edited his znc conf file many times.
davout: kakobrekla: dat thug life
kakobrekla: mhm
Adlai: http://narf-archive.com/pix/8ba58268c7b87163b07304743abcbd7869a79ec5.jpeg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gg2lP5 )
Adlai wonders when system d will begin using systemd
ben_vulpes: ourobottering
davout: the way i see this whole conundrum evolve is that eventually systemd will be renamed 'ubuntu'
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1550 @ 0.00089992 = 1.3949 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21000 @ 0.00044409 = 9.3259 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: you made it to Ritholtz today http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2015/01/sunday-reads-27/
assbot: 10 Sunday Reads | The Big Picture ... ( http://bit.ly/1B6jiFY )
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: lol ancient post
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: any idea why linked now ?
ben_vulpes: ask barry yourself
ben_vulpes: he's got an eclectic filter
asciilifeform has no idea who this fell is
ben_vulpes: some "asset manager"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32850 @ 0.0004425 = 14.5361 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3100 @ 0.00044119 = 1.3677 BTC [-] {2}
TheNewDeal: !down TheNewDeal
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16508 @ 0.00044611 = 7.3644 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28050 @ 0.00044443 = 12.4663 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43058 @ 0.00044328 = 19.0868 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: o look, alf is now being read by the vcs :D