log
▁▁▁⏐︎▁▁ 6123
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Well, involved unpleasant scraping.
mircea_popescu: in other holy shit javascript, a.b where a, b are strings results in the STRING "undefined" ; whereas a.concat(b) results in a string that's a followed by b.
mircea_popescu: really ? who thought this makes sense and how did they figure it ?
mircea_popescu: 1+addition(5) = 6 ?
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-26#1510077 << that's the kind of stuff you see at those new retro places, like marivana ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-26 20:05 asciilifeform: in other nyooz, http://www.loper-os.org/pub/smeg.jpg
mircea_popescu: and in other breadboard news, http://67.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2k7uiIYH41qdlisco1_500.gif
deedbot: [Trilema] My First Bitcoin, or How Do I Get Some Satoshi ? - http://trilema.com/2016/my-first-bitcoin-or-how-do-i-get-some-satoshi/
mircea_popescu: ^ if anyone was looking for something to advertise.
BingoBoingo: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4uq9h7/are_bitcoin_users_at_coinbase_exposed_in_an/d5rv46r
BingoBoingo: https://archive.is/4jmQD
mircea_popescu: $up lru
deedbot: lru voiced for 30 minutes.
lru: a.b is asking for the 'b' property in the object a, which is undefined (the type, not the string), but since types can be automatically converted, and you're working with strings, the undefined type may have been turned into a string depending on use
lru: a.b is the same as a['b'], since nearly everything in javascript is an object
BingoBoingo: But how does this make baby?
lru: the question was about "holy shit javascript" not "fucking javascript" :-)
mircea_popescu: lru yeah. braindamaged fucking notation tho.
mircea_popescu: btw, you got your pgp reg'd with deedbot ?
lru: no... still mostly watching for now ☟︎
lru: is there a way to extract help from the deedbot?
mircea_popescu: anyway, i fucking hate the notion of "implicit object". ☟︎
mircea_popescu: $help
deedbot: http://deedbot.org/help.html
lru: thanks
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510257 << always despised perl for this (among 1,001 other) reason ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-27 03:25 mircea_popescu: anyway, i fucking hate the notion of "implicit object".
asciilifeform: picture a pistol that shoots 'implicit object'.
asciilifeform: (the marksman's head, but how is he to know)
mircea_popescu: somehow the dot became so deeply "concat strings" that i'd first check "who the fuck is regexping this" perhaps ; but it'd never occur to me to say "you know what - it saw a dot it's now looking at a class"
mircea_popescu: just, totally out of left field.
BingoBoingo: http://trilema.com/2015/the-fetlife-meatlist-volume-i/#comment-118269 win
mircea_popescu: hehe
mircea_popescu: i thought you'll appreciate that.
BingoBoingo: Serious problems. Scarcity is a thing.
thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: Coinbase insolvency claims!
thestringpuller: evoorhees is shameless pusherman from now til infinity: https://twitter.com/ErikVoorhees/status/758076581457776640
deedbot: [» Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] οὐδέ κεν οἵ γε γηράντεσσι τοκεῦσιν ἀπὸ θρεπτήρια δοῖεν χειροδίκαι - http://www.contravex.com/2016/07/26/%ce%bf%e1%bd%90%ce%b4%ce%ad-%ce%ba%ce%b5%ce%bd-%ce%bf%e1%bc%b5-%ce%b3%ce%b5-%ce%b3%ce%b7%cf%81%ce%ac%ce%bd%cf%84%ce%b5%cf%83%cf%83%ce%b9-%cf%84%ce%bf%ce%ba%ce%b5%e1%bf%a6%cf%83%ce%b9%ce%bd-%e1%bc%80/
deedbot: [» Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] ἄφρων δ᾽, ὅς κ᾽ ἐθέλῃ πρὸς κρείσσονας ἀντιφερίζειν - http://www.contravex.com/2016/07/26/%e1%bc%84%cf%86%cf%81%cf%89%ce%bd-%ce%b4%e1%be%bd-%e1%bd%85%cf%82-%ce%ba%e1%be%bd-%e1%bc%90%ce%b8%ce%ad%ce%bb%e1%bf%83-%cf%80%cf%81%e1%bd%b8%cf%82-%ce%ba%cf%81%ce%b5%ce%af%cf%83%cf%83%ce%bf%ce%bd/
deedbot: [» Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] οἵ τε μελισσάων κάματον τρύχουσιν ἀεργοὶ ἔσθοντες - http://www.contravex.com/2016/07/26/%ce%bf%e1%bc%b5-%cf%84%ce%b5-%ce%bc%ce%b5%ce%bb%ce%b9%cf%83%cf%83%ce%ac%cf%89%ce%bd-%ce%ba%ce%ac%ce%bc%ce%b1%cf%84%ce%bf%ce%bd-%cf%84%cf%81%cf%8d%cf%87%ce%bf%cf%85%cf%83%ce%b9%ce%bd-%e1%bc%80%ce%b5/
thestringpuller: ;;later tell BingoBoingo http://ix.io/17Qk
gribble: The operation succeeded.
thestringpuller: ;;later tell BingoBoingo http://ix.io/17UP
gribble: The operation succeeded.
shinohai: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 422461 | Current Difficulty: 2.1349250110751337E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 423359 | Next Difficulty In: 898 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 1 hour, 42 minutes, and 2 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
asciilifeform: in other noose, https://developers.slashdot.org/story/16/07/26/2218257/eu-plans-to-create-database-of-bitcoin-users-with-identities-and-wallet-addresses ☟︎
asciilifeform: '"The European Commission is proposing the creation of a database that will hold information on users of virtual currencies," reports Softpedia. "The database will record data on the user's real world identity, along with all associated wallet addresses." The database will be made available to financial investigation agencies in order to track down users behind suspicious operations. The creation of
asciilifeform: this database is part of a regulatory push that the EU got rolling after the Paris November 2015 terror attacks, and which it officially put forward in February 2016, and later approved at the start of July 2016. Legally, this is an attempt to reform the Anti-Money Laundering Directive (AMLD).'
jurov: http://thehackernews.com/2016/07/tor-deep-web-spying.html
jurov: According to the Tor developers, the new design will deploy a distributed random generation system that has "never been deployed before on the Internet." ☟︎
jurov: "never been deployed before" is an advantage nao!
shinohai: http://bitcoinocracy.com/addresses/1KwA4fS4uVuCNjCtMivE7m5ATbv93UZg8V
shinohai: this whole shit repository is hilarious
shinohai: ;;later tell mod6 packaged that experimental stuff into iso, will build from disk alone
gribble: The operation succeeded.
felipelalli: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-16#1503818 << mircea_popescu a) the main issue to me is the language, I'm afraid w/ my English, I'd like to dominate more than I do. b) I'm sorry for that too. It's being very hard to keep up to date here, you guys are too fast for me! :) Also again the language is an obstacle sometimes which makes 3x harder to undertand than the normal. ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-16 13:01 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell felipelalli so a) write it and b) stop leaving, this is intended for permanent residence not hit-and-run actions.
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 653.51, Best ask: 653.76, Bid-ask spread: 0.25000, Last trade: 653.79, 24 hour volume: 11867.10367925, 24 hour low: 646.44, 24 hour high: 657.61, 24 hour vwap: None
deedbot: [Qntra] Coinbase Fumbling Through Ether Huffing Fork Experience - http://qntra.net/2016/07/coinbase-fumbling-through-ether-huffing-fork-experience/
felipelalli: mircea_popescu: why mpex isn't listed on Google anymore? https://www.google.com.br/#safe=off&q=mpex I just realized that yesterday, is that purposeful? ☟︎
BingoBoingo: interesting
deedbot: [Qntra] EU Trying A Bitcoin Registry Seeing How Regulation Fails - http://qntra.net/2016/07/eu-trying-a-bitcoin-registry-seeing-how-regulation-fails/
deedbot: [Qntra] John Hinckley Junior Released From Psychiatric Hospital - http://qntra.net/2016/07/john-hinckley-junior-released-from-psychiatric-hospital/
BingoBoingo: Poles http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton_vs_johnson-5949.html
mats: finally got a letter from OPM about being compromised
mats: they offered three years of free identity theft protection and monitoring services, fucking useless ☟︎
shinohai: -__-
thestringpuller: well the coinbase story thickens
thestringpuller: people are stealing ETC from them
thestringpuller: using replay attacks
thestringpuller: coinbase signs an ETH-HF tx, so then attacker takes same transaction and announces it on the other chain ☟︎
thestringpuller: this is a fiasco.
thestringpuller continues popping morning corn
jurov: hehe,and can this ever be prevented? i can't see how to reliably ensure propagation of divergent transactions to sides of hardfork ☟︎
jurov: one has to repeatedly send to self addresses, till there's desired result on both chains, no?
jurov: !up vexare
gribble: Error: "up" is not a valid command.
jurov: $up vexare
deedbot: vexare voiced for 30 minutes.
vexare didn't really needed that
asciilifeform: in other 'yesterday's nobel is tommorrow's homework' noose, http://thehackernews.com/2016/07/wireless-keylogger.html
asciilifeform: double-lul sandwich, in fact, because contains:
asciilifeform: 'The KeySniffer vulnerability affects wireless keyboards from eight different hardware manufacturers that use cheap transceiver chips (non-Bluetooth chips) – a less secure, radio-based communication protocol.
asciilifeform: The issue with these chips is that they don’t receive Bluetooth’s frequent security updates. ☟︎
asciilifeform: '
asciilifeform: RUN MOAR UPDATEZ!1111
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510282 << eu also plans to sell me a few hundred daughters and sisters of politicians by the pound for salami purposes. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-27 12:57 asciilifeform: in other noose, https://developers.slashdot.org/story/16/07/26/2218257/eu-plans-to-create-database-of-bitcoin-users-with-identities-and-wallet-addresses
mircea_popescu: unfortunately, the eu is more ineffectual than even argentina.
asciilifeform: delish
mircea_popescu: more like rachelish.
asciilifeform: wake me up for the long pig barbecue.
mircea_popescu: so far, entirely a war of words on both sides.
BingoBoingo: <thestringpuller> well the coinbase story thickens << Note edit I made to your coinbase story
asciilifeform: well, that and of rubbish alts
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510286 << god almighty. this may be the dumbest thing i ever heard. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-27 13:12 jurov: According to the Tor developers, the new design will deploy a distributed random generation system that has "never been deployed before on the Internet."
mircea_popescu: who the fuck runs tor, hillary's campaign management ? "shit positively known not to work, will be sold as distributed and hipstery". THE WOMAN IS LOSING ON THIS SCRITP! IT DUN WERK!!!111
mircea_popescu: idiots.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510292 << the language is an obstacle in understanding just like the hymen is an obstacle in fucking. grind that shit down! then it won't be an obstacle anymore. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-27 14:13 felipelalli: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-16#1503818 << mircea_popescu a) the main issue to me is the language, I'm afraid w/ my English, I'd like to dominate more than I do. b) I'm sorry for that too. It's being very hard to keep up to date here, you guys are too fast for me! :) Also again the language is an obstacle sometimes which makes 3x harder to undertand than the normal.
trinque: surely by now no one around here is taking pride in his mastery of the great english language.
trinque: :D
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510297 << probably because google isn't listed on mpex. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-27 14:34 felipelalli: mircea_popescu: why mpex isn't listed on Google anymore? https://www.google.com.br/#safe=off&q=mpex I just realized that yesterday, is that purposeful?
mircea_popescu: lmao trinque there also is that!
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510303 << "and a donut". ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-27 15:11 mats: they offered three years of free identity theft protection and monitoring services, fucking useless
mircea_popescu: if you think about it, it's a fucking great ploy to get people perma-subscribed to those "services" like they're perma-subscribed to "paying MIT & friends hedge funds".
mircea_popescu: back in communist romania, "oamenii muncii" ie the "men of working" had to pay whatever off paycheck each month for "investments". just about the same thing, really.
asciilifeform: in su, 'union' membership
mircea_popescu: there was that, also. separate.
asciilifeform: oh and party dues
mircea_popescu: "why live in sane country making 500 a month ? come to AMERICA!!!11 make 5000 a month except pay 3000 here and 1800 there and 300 there and 50 there and 15 rthere and no you can't stop these fucking terrorist, you want to bring your own tribal ways to civilisation ?!?!?! make 5000 a month means you owe 500 each month! doh!"
mircea_popescu: how to ruin a beautiful thing. start taking in the ustardian propaganda, actually believe it, there you go.
asciilifeform: well the only thing behind the 5000 is that the workerbee owes 5000-epsilon
asciilifeform: if it were 50000 - would be 50000-epsilon. and after a few rounds of printolade, probably will.
mircea_popescu: epsilon my foot, by now it's like 50%
mircea_popescu: it was epsilon back in the day, when the shit was getting started, 1980s.
asciilifeform: who keeps 50%!?
asciilifeform: epsilon ~remains~
mircea_popescu: no, my numbers above are 5000 owe 500, ie 10% not epsilon
mircea_popescu: irl, closer to 50%.
asciilifeform: who the hell lives in 500 in usa ?!
asciilifeform: indians on reservation?
mircea_popescu: he "makes" 5000 spends 5500.
asciilifeform: ah we have a sign inversion.
asciilifeform: lolk
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/the-battlefield-of-the-future/#selection-89.90-89.662 << this at work, ever again, in all socialist processes.
mircea_popescu: first, "epsilon" going the wrong way. soon enough, that's 10% then 1000% then infinity% AND STILL KEEPS GROWING.
mircea_popescu: we have a sign inversion and they have a graph crossing.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510308 << doh. as was explained back in the day we for the first time in "the blockchain technology space" explained how a hard fork resolves economically, cca 2014ish. meanwhile the "technology leaders" of one intern and rented offices got a little overrun by events. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-27 15:27 thestringpuller: coinbase signs an ETH-HF tx, so then attacker takes same transaction and announces it on the other chain
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: typical schmuck in ro owes 0 ?
mircea_popescu: such great vc pick, coinbase, really.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform typical ro schmuck owns 1k sqft of real estate and 2 cars.
mircea_popescu: same of typical schmuck in ru, india, argentina or whatever else. lebanon.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in ru most are mortgaged to the hilt now
asciilifeform: i cannot speak for the rest
mircea_popescu: well, plenty of that, sure.
asciilifeform: and looking at the ar real estate catalogue, i would bet same is true there
asciilifeform: who exactly will cash-buy the $150K cockroach flats in buenos aires ?
mircea_popescu: it's complicated, argentinians are not intellectually advanced enough to have banking.
mircea_popescu: they have some sort of tribal arrangement, but fuck me if i can explain it sensibly.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform children of middle class cleptocracy parents.
shinohai: beads and wampum?
mircea_popescu: they do this. president cash-bought 100+ cars as "retirement" ☟︎
mircea_popescu: i kid you not, with this. i know it's absurd. but she did do it.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510311 << you first split the pot by self-sending, then send off the splits. the speciffic attack is discussed in the logs, iirc davout even had a mock implementation back when it looked like the imbeciles may be dumb enough to need the stick applied physically. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-27 15:31 jurov: hehe,and can this ever be prevented? i can't see how to reliably ensure propagation of divergent transactions to sides of hardfork
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510321 << bwahahaha pretty good. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-27 15:52 asciilifeform: The issue with these chips is that they don’t receive Bluetooth’s frequent security updates.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510384 << this might not be as monumentally stupid as it appears to be: what ~else~ can orc 1) buy 2) hide 3) sell, even for a tenth of what he paid, later ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-27 16:14 mircea_popescu: they do this. president cash-bought 100+ cars as "retirement"
asciilifeform: yes the cars are worth a tenth. so.
asciilifeform: what's else to buy? gold? and then sell where?
mircea_popescu: bitcoin.
asciilifeform: and sell where?
mircea_popescu: and don't tell me "she didn't know". she "knew".
mircea_popescu: same place she bought it.
asciilifeform: car is pretty much as liquid in orc world as can be.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fly by pulling bootstraps much ?
mircea_popescu: i do not follow ?
asciilifeform: paint the picture for my education: where should the gang have bought btc ?
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/bitcoin-in-argentina-exactly-nothing-to-do-with-the-derps/ <
mircea_popescu: i've been here for years have i not ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu would take their playmoneyz ?
asciilifeform: in the requisite qty ?
mircea_popescu: with the requisite deals, certainly.
asciilifeform: my understanding was that ~nobody actually ~wants~ these pesos
mircea_popescu: but old whore wants to die as rat.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i would have taken these pesos, on some reasonable conditions.
asciilifeform: e.g., appointment as viceroy ? or wat
mircea_popescu: which yes, do include arresting turner if he shows up within the borders.
asciilifeform: lolk
mircea_popescu: what lolk ?
mircea_popescu: that deal would have been infinitely better FOR HER ☟︎
asciilifeform: may as well ask for three castles and some daughter-salami
mircea_popescu: than having usg.macri in.
mircea_popescu: quite exactly asking. so what if i ask ?
mircea_popescu: old woman may not refuse.
asciilifeform: well seems like refused, neh ?
mircea_popescu: review your favourite http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-18#1504508 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-18 00:48 asciilifeform whistles the impalement theme from 'ogniem i mieczem'...
mircea_popescu: old woman says yes to one, then yes to another, then yes again to the first
asciilifeform: aha?
mircea_popescu: why ? she knows what happens if she says no.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not so much refused as "old whore wants to die as a rat."
asciilifeform insufficiently familiar with the oldwhore et al to expand on this
mircea_popescu: resolving the "live as dog or die as rat" dilemma by "it's easier to die as rat" seems stupid, but then again who knows what goes on through old whore's head. (her ass.)
asciilifeform: i dun have a solid feel for what it is that ar folk actually ~want~ from life
mircea_popescu: i do, and it ain't pretty.
asciilifeform: '90s ru - i can grasp, yes
asciilifeform: i sort of modelled ar as a kind of spanish '90s ru
asciilifeform: mentally
mircea_popescu: no, they're ustards^2. they "just want things to be good"
asciilifeform: i thought these were folx with 'no two empanadas to rub together'
mircea_popescu: lazy, stupid and desocialized, but not at all for genetic reasons. they're lazy like a schizophrenic patient with waxy paralysis is "lazy".
asciilifeform: and itching for 'hay mas futuro'
mircea_popescu: and for the exact same reason, entirely lost real anchoring.
mircea_popescu: idem stupid, idem desocialized. the fundamental problem is that they believe a lie, and the lie became more important than anything, and as such they literally live in those vats.
mircea_popescu: so much so they actually welcome rape as salvation.\
asciilifeform: 'a lie', singular ?
mircea_popescu: well yes singular. globalization amirite ? all lies merge if they get large enough.
mircea_popescu: the case of the unfucked middle aged woman is entirely illustrative here.
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2016/and-other-things/#selection-153.0-185.55 << that one.
danielpbarron: $up proslogion
deedbot: proslogion voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: http://archive.is/hDemD << lel
asciilifeform: 'Kraken opens classic ether (ETC) markets and credits ETC to accounts'
shinohai: O.o
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510414 << thinking about this, there are many moar folx who 'ought to be bitcoining but are - as far as anyone can tell - not' ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-27 16:25 mircea_popescu: that deal would have been infinitely better FOR HER
asciilifeform: e.g., isis et al
asciilifeform: various supposed 'revolutionaries' keep their fiatola, either in hefty physical bags which then feature in mexican confiscation porn,
asciilifeform: or in panamanian banks, which, lately, ditto
asciilifeform: i suspect that the main problem is the computer.
asciilifeform: the gut of the savage senses - correctly - the witchcraft therein
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-23#1509120 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-23 16:07 mircea_popescu: oh, right, there's also a whole pile of claims re insider trading, manipulation etc over the "price" of "ethereum" at kraken and poloniex.
asciilifeform: and opts to buy the 100 cars, which, for all of their problems, cannot disappear silently in the middle of the night because a button were pressed in ftmeade
mircea_popescu: everyone yielded.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: interesting..
mircea_popescu: everyone, everywhere, entirely.
asciilifeform: 'etc' still trading 10 per 1 'eth' neh ?
mircea_popescu: so ? usg.mit spent close to 100mn to prop up eth for the past month ; now they're in the position where "the bad hacker" has a shitton of eth-c to give to "the people" to vote for him. they will, what's more, as per the usg system THEY ARE RIGHT TO. it is the "correct" modern-democracy socialist thing to do.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile the eth "rednecks" are "acting against their own interest". as per usg verbiage now current. ☟︎
asciilifeform: i have not been keeping up with the details: where did the 'eth' fork people move the dao coins to ?
mircea_popescu: never in modern history has anyone made the lizzards eat their own vomit to the degree of splendour.
mircea_popescu: orlov has a hardon for putin, but putin never ever came close to this.
asciilifeform: (are they simply out of circulation? or usable somewhere)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "sent back to legitimate owners" in the sense of maybe.
asciilifeform: l0l! for re-rape ?
mircea_popescu: but the race is on, and somehow they will have to pay largesse to the mob. whence from ? we'll see.
mircea_popescu: but - they spent all this time and effort, to protect something... that they just lost control of.
mircea_popescu: and now they gotta pay more for the priviledge of having paid in the past.
mircea_popescu: i call this... the obamacare.
mircea_popescu: "i'll pay your son to rape your wife with money taken from your house" is the byline of the revolution. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: used to be known as "i'll break your arms off and beat you to shit with them", back in the day.
asciilifeform: so... has an 'eth trb' yet appeared ?
asciilifeform: or are the 'etc' folk stuck using last month's client forever.
mircea_popescu: they'll just merge-develop.
asciilifeform: (if this, they will eventually be candidates for anal reeducation, just as we would have been sans trb)
mircea_popescu: scamcoin needs no treth.
asciilifeform: it does, in the sense that mit et al could handily sink the 'etc' by exploiting the vulns which they, themselves, created
asciilifeform: in exactly the same style as everywhere else in drepperland
mircea_popescu: lmao
mircea_popescu: btw, this is your cue to http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-20#1507109 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-20 15:16 mircea_popescu: you're wide open, in a security sense, because of this notion of cleanliness.
asciilifeform: hm?
mircea_popescu: you're a one track mind the likes i've never seen. "gotta clean"
mircea_popescu: anyway. ima be off to town. laters.
asciilifeform: i dun really have strong shit to give re what happens to this or that alt. ☟︎
asciilifeform: but point out, that enemy has certain strenghths and will use'em before it expires.
asciilifeform: and 'clean' is not a word i apply to cmachineware.
asciilifeform: it can be 'clean' relatively, as a public toilet sometimes is
asciilifeform: but to use same word for it, as for clean dishes to eat from, is an abuse.
thestringpuller: GreenAddress acquired by blockstream
thestringpuller: dunno if qntra-worthy ☟︎
phf: who acquired by whom?
asciilifeform: what even WAS it ?
danielpbarron: it was a "wallet" that used nLockTime to make "secure" 0-conf transactions if i'm not mistaken. And I think they also publicly took a stand against a bitcoin hard fork at some point. They had a representative in the chat under the nickname 'GAit' but never registered a GPG key.
asciilifeform: i thought the 'lock' bullshit required fork ?
asciilifeform: (to ~actually~ work)
danielpbarron shrugs
asciilifeform: as per http://btcbase.org/log/2014-11-13#920116 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2014-11-13 19:06 asciilifeform: bip64, aside from complicating the protocol and giving relevance to the gavin shitgang, is also a jam-tomorrow chumpatronic engineering structural element
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2014-11-13#920112 << thread. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2014-11-13 19:04 asciilifeform admits that he suspects bip64 of being a plot to create usg-like bonds in btc. folks will be asked to trace X proper btc for X+epsilon 'locked' ones that are to land back in their pocket 'in the future', should they live long enough, but are actually recovable 'because this is how the world works'
asciilifeform: 'physical bitcoin', as recently discussed, was/is a clunky, orcish version of this same thing.
thestringpuller: well nlocktime is only supposed to be used between trusted parties
thestringpuller: as you discussed years ago
asciilifeform: iirc traditional bitcoin doesn't actually enforce locktimes.
thestringpuller: i.e. i give my heir transaction that gives him all my btc after nlocktime block arrives (maybe 20-40 years from now)
thestringpuller: it doesn't
thestringpuller: but if you sign a tx with nlocktime mienrs won't mine it until after nlocktime has passed
thestringpuller: so you can double spend it.
asciilifeform: who's 'it' ?
thestringpuller: the inputs funding the transaction
danielpbarron: might have been a n-of-m key escrow then -- where greenaddress is one of the keys and that's supposed to mean you can trust their 0-conf
asciilifeform: no, i ask, ~who won't mine~
asciilifeform: so long as trb node accepts a hypothetical block as valid, it is mineable.
thestringpuller: you can't mine based on the protocol. nlocktime means the transaction isn't valid until nlocktime has passed
thestringpuller: so you can't put it in the block chain it just sits in mempool until nlocktime passes ☟︎
thestringpuller: with OP_CLTV that opcode allows you to mine a transaction with nlocktime set
thestringpuller: which was from softfork in like 2014/2015 or something
thestringpuller: i always viewed nlocktime tx's as MPEx "PUSH all in case key is compromised" tactic
asciilifeform: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.h?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#0444 ☟︎
asciilifeform: do i have to draw the picture here ?
asciilifeform: and guess what else, http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/search?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option&_filestring=&_string=OP_CLTV
asciilifeform: '0 occurences found.'
asciilifeform: this garbage is not in bitcoin.
thestringpuller: I KNOW
thestringpuller: "nLockTime is a parameter that can be attached to a transaction, that mandates a minimal time (specified in either unix time or block height), that before this time, the transaction cannot be accepted into a block."
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: read the linked routine. is this the actual effect ?
asciilifeform: i could spoil the 'surprise', but why.
thestringpuller: appears to return true if transaction's nlocktime < thresholds
asciilifeform: and if not ?
thestringpuller: wait is return true for failure?
asciilifeform: IsFinal NEVER RETURNS FALSE
asciilifeform: for fucks sake.
thestringpuller: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.h?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#0448 << it kinda does :P
thestringpuller: it's sorta pregnant
asciilifeform: well yes, if input is nonfinal.
asciilifeform: but notice, never as a consequence of locktime.
asciilifeform also finds it interesting that the locktime nonsense is checked prior to testing the ins
thestringpuller: Weird. It works in practice. (I made an nlock transaction in mid 2013 and it worked as advertised)
thestringpuller: didn't realize is it was this poorly written but that's not surprising
thestringpuller: cause satoshi smoked dope
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: what EXTANT miners CHOOSE to mine, and what COULD be mined, if there were sane folks mining, are quite distinct things. ☟︎
asciilifeform: see the high-S case.
thestringpuller: I get that. I guess I'd have to do more investigation. Make a bunch of nlocktime transaction and see how to break it. cause it wasn't used until peter todd made OP_CLTV abomination for segwit/ln
thestringpuller: used widely*
thestringpuller: I don't recall seeing any nlocktime tx's in the wild
asciilifeform: thing is, you won't see 'break' unless a miner cooperates
thestringpuller: how so? is miner running custom code to say "i'ma put nlocktime tx in this block"
asciilifeform: same deal as for high-S
thestringpuller: i thought the high-S thing was due to PRB nodes fellating low-S transactions until they became high-S ones.
asciilifeform: ~0 hashrate behind 100%-everything-trb-will-happily-eat protocol breadth
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: mno
asciilifeform: it is about miners spitting on a perfectly valid, per trb rules, tx
asciilifeform: until someone deigns to repaint it
thestringpuller: yea. but i'm looking at core code and the nlocktime thing seems untouched until peter todd era
thestringpuller: so I dunno what I don't know.
thestringpuller: the high-s thing was cause mtgox had terrible accountants and forced miners to do the high-s thing
asciilifeform: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=0.10.0#0722 << still quite the same in prb 10 !! ☟︎
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: i have nfi how mtgox could have 'forced miners' to anything whatsoever.
asciilifeform: esp. with regards to pissing on PERFECTLY VALID tx
asciilifeform: 'i won't mine this because i dun like the colour of its shoes'
thestringpuller: mtgox halted withdrawals until core implemented the high-S thing in PRB.
thestringpuller: This was a softfork iirc.
asciilifeform: there is, as the moral of this thread in fact is, ~no such thing~ as 'softfork'
asciilifeform: there is idiot miners colluding to narrow the protocol in arbitrary ways
asciilifeform: this can end IMMEDIATELY if, say, we had a mining op.
thestringpuller: yes. there is miner collusion to make rules more "granular" without permission from nodes
thestringpuller: mining op is expensive and every miner i've procured has been a borderline drug deal ☟︎
thestringpuller: i don't know why anyone in their right mine would want to mine
thestringpuller: mind*
asciilifeform: that's the issue, aha
trinque: anyone ever written an existing miner?
thestringpuller: i bet someone is still running Diablo miner....
asciilifeform: trinque: i wrote an fpga thing, long ago.
asciilifeform: it was not remarkable.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: Mining operation has to be subsidized with some other activity.
thestringpuller: I suspect Chinese miners are just glorified money launderers.
trinque: no, written someone *operating* a mine
thestringpuller: trinque: we had one during ATC days hanging out in chan, but he was doing it for shits and giggles and not as business.
trinque: perhaps one of the heads of the foundation could do that diplomacy ☟︎
trinque: unless someone here itches to burn millions
thestringpuller: it seems most mining operations turn into scams tho. i've yet to see a "legit" operation.
thestringpuller: trinque: you don't need to burn millions to mine 1 block a day (more than enoguh for tmsr) you need about $150k starting capital and some good luck to hope difficulty doesn't skyrocket on you ☟︎
asciilifeform: eh if we write to some chinese bloke (and is there a known miner in the WOT? afaik there is not, nor any reason to ever expect there to be),
asciilifeform: and he writes back that he uses prb,
trinque: "good luck to hope" isn't a business plan
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu will helpfully remind us that this is not a REAL miner
asciilifeform: and real meta-miners use ???.
asciilifeform: anyway i am not convinced that it is possible to actually talk to a miner.
thestringpuller: trinque: it isn't, but unfortunately the way chip distribution is pretty much a cartel, you're at the whim of the universe in terms of profitibility.
asciilifeform: you cannot talk to pond scum. they dun have names, or identities.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: eveyone from Gigavps to friedcat turned out scammer.
trinque: fucking nonsense
thestringpuller: so I personally think mining facilitates a scammer mindset
asciilifeform: you ~could~ find someone who will 'i speak for the trees! for the trees, have no tongues!'
asciilifeform: but this is not quite same thing.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: mining is -EV and therefore necessarily entails scamming.
trinque: this magical world where there is never a reason to do something is not one I inhabit
asciilifeform: it is only a question of who the chump is in a given operation.
trinque: $s and anyway
a111: 1507 results for "and anyway", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=and%20anyway
thestringpuller: trinque: there is if you want to succumb to radiation poisoning in 3 months.
thestringpuller: i've put some miners in a colo I trust near my house, but i don't see it growing anytime soon due to chip procurement
thestringpuller: i also don't like putting dollars into miners when I could put them into bitcoins
asciilifeform: trinque: if one day someone controls serious % of hash rate, and wishes to prove it publicly right here - you will be right, and i - wrong.
asciilifeform: but dun hold yer breath waiting for it.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: afaik all of the hardware ~publicly~ sold today, is squarely -ev.
asciilifeform: even in 'flat rate' dc.
thestringpuller: not if i resell it to a bagholder which is easier than it sounds
asciilifeform: that ain't mining
thestringpuller: basically you buy mining equipment then relist it while you're mining
asciilifeform: can also buy wampum and beads and resell to bagholders
asciilifeform: if you know how.
thestringpuller: That's not what I'm saying. Mining is temporary as hardware goes obsolete. YOu milk the hardware as much as possible, and resell it to bagholders, and buy newer hardware.
thestringpuller: HENCE BLACKHOLE
thestringpuller: the only way to exit from mining is to resell the hardware or mine until its obsolete and hope the principal is repaid
thestringpuller: bbl
asciilifeform: if you aren't chinese, whatever hardware it is you now use is YEARS out of date.
asciilifeform: (or nsa, which, for the purpose of this discussion, is a variant of chinese)
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510588 << iirc mircea_popescu explained that this would not work, your blocks would end up orphaned. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-27 18:59 thestringpuller: trinque: you don't need to burn millions to mine 1 block a day (more than enoguh for tmsr) you need about $150k starting capital and some good luck to hope difficulty doesn't skyrocket on you
asciilifeform: (naturally whether they do or not would depend on whether the cartel specifically targets you for zapping, otherwise it is matter for luck)
asciilifeform: but if they 'narrowed protocol' then yes, their existing code will reject your block to build on
asciilifeform: and it will be orphaned unless you can outrun the entire set. i.e. 51%ate.
asciilifeform: so outcome would depend on ~where~ they narrowed
asciilifeform: (i.e. only on the mempool end? or on both ends ?)
asciilifeform: personally i have nfi which.
asciilifeform: i do not believe that it is +ev for any miner to truthfully speak.
asciilifeform: ergo anything that is uttered by a purported miner, should be seen as a strategic lie.
asciilifeform: by ???.
asciilifeform: i will point out that ~every word uttered thus far, by claimed miners, has turned out to have ~0 relationship with the truth.
asciilifeform: (recall, e.g., last year's july phork.)
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510490 << so what, the solution is to pretend we don't care ? that's how they got in the shit in the first place, you eager to follow shuit ? ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-27 18:09 asciilifeform: i dun really have strong shit to give re what happens to this or that alt.
mircea_popescu: fact remains, your universal answer is "gotta clean it". not everything's made to be clean. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510496 << prolly no worth the trouble. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-27 18:17 thestringpuller: dunno if qntra-worthy
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510521 << which is the idiocy here. what, seriously, MY ram is free for YOUR asking ? hurr. ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-27 18:32 thestringpuller: so you can't put it in the block chain it just sits in mempool until nlocktime passes
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510573 << lol! ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-27 18:55 thestringpuller: mining op is expensive and every miner i've procured has been a borderline drug deal
mircea_popescu: not altogether an unfair characterisation of the end user market huh.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510585 << they don't seem really cut for that water. keeping the foundation mission technological in nature is prolly the safer bet for a while yet. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-27 18:58 trinque: perhaps one of the heads of the foundation could do that diplomacy
mircea_popescu: and in other news, girl making sushi out of just now cut salmon and things.
mircea_popescu: my life is hard, but unfair.
shinohai: yummy
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510638 << well i'd prefer max chaos and blood, with respect to enemy ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-27 19:56 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510490 << so what, the solution is to pretend we don't care ? that's how they got in the shit in the first place, you eager to follow shuit ?
asciilifeform: when i 'but why let mouse go', it was from impatience.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510640 << i suppose it is possible to watch cockfight without feeling urge to strap razors to one or the other bird... ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-27 19:56 mircea_popescu: fact remains, your universal answer is "gotta clean it". not everything's made to be clean.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510643 << the extra special lul is that the crapolade ~never~ worked! ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-27 19:58 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510521 << which is the idiocy here. what, seriously, MY ram is free for YOUR asking ? hurr.
asciilifeform: nor could ever, with trb.
asciilifeform: nlocktime is a decorative knob.
asciilifeform: it isn't connected to anything.
asciilifeform: see thread from 1hr ago.
deedbot: [Trilema] Piles, the floral doll - http://trilema.com/2016/piles-the-floral-doll/
mircea_popescu: myeah.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's a particularly amusing cockfight, because it shows plainly and incontrovertibly that "bad hacker / criminal thief" powered socialism is better, electorally speaking, than mit-socialism.
mircea_popescu: i have no idea how any of them can maintain the pretense of "thinking" and "rational" with this on the table.
mircea_popescu: then again i also have no idea how the less wrong derps can live under the same sun as http://trilema.com/2016/multivariate-calculus-for-experts/
mircea_popescu: cognitive dissonance is a wonderful bag.