log
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asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-28#1511291 << Just Wanted?? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-28 23:34 trinque: I am not here to pay for consequences like somebody's child, merely to buy a product
trinque: not at fucking all.
trinque: you do not get to tally up the sum total of effect something has on the univese itself and try to derive a price from that
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-28#1511290 << y'know, just because envirocrats impose tax on usaschwitz inmates, to pay for al gore's yachts - does not mean that externalities dun exist. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-28 23:34 trinque: this is the fucking carbon credits argument
asciilifeform: trinque: i get to tally the cost of unambiguously petro-related atrocities.
asciilifeform: not 'universe'.
trinque: cost and effect are not synonyms
asciilifeform: no amount of sophistry will get you folks out of this one. we pay the cost of burning dino every time we take breath, for instance.
asciilifeform: and it ~is~ a cost.
trinque: I wonder how many other idiot languages conflate monetary cost and "prevents alternate possible outcome"
trinque: probably all of them
trinque: as in, "the train wreck cost him his life"
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-28#1511256 << i eagerly await article explaining how $100 petrobarrel becomes $.25 litre ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-28 23:23 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-28#1511123 << not for a second. without usg, gas is ~25 cents at the pump. it FEEDS the usgolade, not eats from it.
trinque: that is not fucking monetary at all
asciilifeform: trinque: generally a deliberate bargain is implied - otherwise, 'living cost him his life'
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: $44 barrel nets $2 gallon at the pump. $100 barrel closer to $4 per gal at the pump.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu claims ~actual~ cost is ~25c, earlier.
pete_dushenski: when discussing proportions, it's essential to keep in mind what our priors are. don't be the vacuum thinking kid from the recent contravex comments
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: elaborate?
pete_dushenski: http://www.contravex.com/2016/07/25/bumble-better-than-tinder-worse-than-go/#comment-48896 << this guy
asciilifeform: i dun get it?
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: basically, costs and prices fluctuate and you can't just cherrypick historical numbers to suit your theory.
pete_dushenski: so bitcoin was once a buck. what of it ?
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: my original contention had nothing to do with a particular price.
pete_dushenski: but your latter contention did.
asciilifeform: but that ~nobody paid anything like the actual cost of his petro-ride at the pump, in half a century or so.
asciilifeform: the rest - socialized.
asciilifeform: and that this is just as loathesome as obummercare.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: why only in last half-century ? what changed ?
asciilifeform: saudi getting to pretend that they are people, and have ownership of their fossils?
asciilifeform: americans cancerously growing to the point where they import by the megatonne?
asciilifeform: largely these, afaik.
pete_dushenski: so non-people helping non-people... i fail to see the issue here. saudis have far more culture, however lamentable you may find it, than americanos.
pete_dushenski: structure, rules, hierarchy, the lot. saudis have. usians don't.
asciilifeform: what planet's usa did pete_dushenski visit..?
pete_dushenski: besides, everything alive grows to the point where it can't grow anymore.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: of the social form, not the 'we wrote this on a piece of paper and now it means things and we also made lots and lots of signs everywhere so that you never forget what we wrote on the pieces of paper'
pete_dushenski: the two are not of one kind.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: this entire thread reminds me of a uniquely-american, incidentally, pasttime: impassioned defense of the heathen imperial system of weights&measures
pete_dushenski: anyways, i have to beat this rainstorm heading my way. having left the 16cyls parked, cycling and all. i'll read the continuation in the logs but it'll be a few busy days until i'm voiced again.
asciilifeform: 'petro is mainstream, ubiquitous, easy, fuck off with the weird'
asciilifeform: 'gallon and inch forever'.
asciilifeform: ~==.
deedbot: http://deedbot.org/bundle-422651.txt
trinque: ey mod6 ^
asciilifeform: trinque: deedbot really ought not shit where it has nit eaten, imho.
asciilifeform: *not
trinque: it didn't.
trinque: this is in the logs.
asciilifeform: it evaled for 4 hrs?!
asciilifeform: neat
asciilifeform digs.
trinque: blockchain was a bit behind on the node, but yes, farts bundle URLs now
shinohai: Finally! been waiting on that for some time trinque lol
trinque: my observation is that my node will get behind, then rapidly catch up if restarted
trinque: I might find time to investigate why soon
asciilifeform: trinque: this comes from the idiot socket handler
asciilifeform: enemy can hog sockets and never let go
trinque: yeah, sounds about rihgt
asciilifeform: iirc i described this in detail some time last year.
asciilifeform bbl - playing with pet...
trinque: cya
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: consider a bouncer. logins and self-voicings is unnecessary opsec bit-leakage.
ben_vulpes: "kindergarten opsec lessons!11!" as asciilifeform would say
ben_vulpes: to continue the exercise, for students, every time pete_dushenski is logged in and self-voiced, he may be assumed to be in physical proximity to his keys.
mod6: <+trinque> ey mod6 ^ << hey, thanks again trinque. o7
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> and it ~is~ a cost. << so far, it's "alf got drunk one day, went on an abstruse rant".
mircea_popescu: i eagerly await article explaining how $100 petrobarrel << i dunno what you think this sort of nonsense achieves. what in fact it achieves is "oh look, alf has nfi what stuff costs, but he wants to derp about how it works". it's a bad habit.
mircea_popescu: ~nobody paid anything like the actual cost << if you mean "the cost to make huge ferns, stuff them into earth, make oil", then yes. this is however no argument : nobody pays, nor could anyone ever pay, the "cost to re-do big bang".
mircea_popescu: want it or not, some level of denied externality is baked into life, not just human life bu life altogether. most people grok this point when contemplating lord kelivn's universal death idea.
BingoBoingo: In other news, some derp is dreaming about mustering enough miners to 51% the ethereum chain that didn't hardfork in a time travel theft. Idiot appears to be neglecting that much hash would make his chain vulnerable.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-29#1511388 << tru! but - why deny?! ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-29 01:19 mircea_popescu: want it or not, some level of denied externality is baked into life, not just human life bu life altogether. most people grok this point when contemplating lord kelivn's universal death idea.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-29#1511386 << argument concerned simple principle: if folks dun feel like counting gulf war I and II, and ~all~ wahabbi derpery, etc. as 'part of cost of petro', i can just as readily say that fukushima, chernobyl are 'not in the cost' of fission-power. etc ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-29 01:16 mircea_popescu: i eagerly await article explaining how $100 petrobarrel << i dunno what you think this sort of nonsense achieves. what in fact it achieves is "oh look, alf has nfi what stuff costs, but he wants to derp about how it works". it's a bad habit.
asciilifeform: laugh at both, or neither, or you have unprincipled-exception.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-28#1510902 << this is a good point, actually. gotta be looked into, sealing gotta seal all the crevices. << noted. I dug into this at one point, but got side tracked by other pressing things that came up at the time. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-28 19:13 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-28#1510893 << this is useful and necessary but, sad as it is to rain on parade: buildroot downloads 10,001 turds.
mod6: I'm trying to remember the specifics. I can't seem to recall too much about it.
mod6: I'd have to dig through the logs. I'll turn my attention to that at some point soon after I get an updated build script out there.
trinque: asciilifeform: I refer you to the "pay for sunlight" thread. No one contests that there *are* externalities, but their cost is undefined.
trinque: and pointedly not fucking zero
trinque: undefined
trinque: and for fucks sake there is no such thing as "the cost of fission power"
trinque: no one ever bought "fission power" the concept
trinque: you conflate transactional, monetary cost and ~consequence
trinque: heh, here, "you cannot buy X unhappenings of chernobyl!"
trinque goes to bed
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo the substance of the dreamer's dream is always dreamy! and of a creamy consistence!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's not a matter of "deny". energy economics is a proper field, which you're welcome to learn if you care, or not. the behaviour you briefly engaged in is not unlike 15 yo alf trying to learn math by busting into brin sr's class and yelling "all functions are convex! prove me wrong!" really loudly.
mircea_popescu: there's better ways to learn things than saying the stupidest thing one can thing of to the smartest people he can find.
mircea_popescu: but of course, more generally, the reason civilisation in all its known implementations always flows towards "herd of females, and capons" is exactly that naturally, boys tend to prefer learning by the above described process, which is never popular with the learned.
mircea_popescu: this is a prime something to cleave, somehow. it is a major limit of our world, much moreso than "carbon" blabla or gravity. its unyielding pressure creates the necessity of the harem, for instance, and many things.
deedbot: [» Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] Fireside chat with Russ Roberts. - http://www.contravex.com/2016/07/29/fireside-chat-with-russ-roberts/
mircea_popescu: anyway, to round the matter for the readership, oil is not 100, but about 35 atm. was 40 last year. in this interval of time, about two thirds of the cost of the barrel comes from various royalties paid to governments, both directly and indirectly in the form of "compliance" with myriad idiocies. the cost of refining, owing to technological advance entirely unrelated to government, is under a cent. transportation around a cen
mircea_popescu: t. the 25 cents may not be exact, but they're not far off for one thing, and based on actual reasoning as opposed to "let's say things see what happens".
mircea_popescu: it's true that oil ~futures~ did top 100 for some time some time ago. this is a different sort of "price" than the "price" of interest in the reasoning above, and a different sort of signal.
mircea_popescu: that difference is perhaps best understood as the difference between "find me the real roots of f(x)" and "find me the limit of f(x) with x->inf". different stories altogether.
mircea_popescu: mod6 yeah, i recall.
mircea_popescu: trinque the important point about "externalities" in a discussion of money, and by extension capitalism, is that they're never anything other than a power play. (much like appeals to "science" in a social setting, notwithstanding the libertard's hollow pretense to the contrary).
mircea_popescu: when i say "You see ? The capitalist found the externality, made his item certainly cheaper and arguably "better" at the expense of unknown things not in his charge." i am not being facetious. the derp's actually being a good capitalist in that example. which is the broader point there : one can't pull himself up by own breeches, "capitalism" is not a cure for stupidity, merely an instrument for smart people.
mircea_popescu: and in other boobs, http://namethatporn.com/post/333009-where-can-i-find-this-video.html
thestringpuller: ;;later tell BingoBoingo http://ix.io/18Bb
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-29#1511402 << nobody complained in the 10,001 times i mentioned 'the cost of microshit' ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-29 04:10 trinque: and for fucks sake there is no such thing as "the cost of fission power"
asciilifeform: i'd luvvv to know, why the special pleading for petrocar, it is quite the same as winblowz, x86, and other 'this is mainstream, cheap, normal and stop counting the actual damage from it as cost, you terrorist'
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-29#1511416 << why should i look at the instantaneous value solely, rather than this limit? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-29 06:39 mircea_popescu: that difference is perhaps best understood as the difference between "find me the real roots of f(x)" and "find me the limit of f(x) with x->inf". different stories altogether.
asciilifeform: the 100, as i understand, is a more honest figure, it factors in actual trend (no prizes for guessing: down) in production, aint nobody making moar of it.. - and is less affected by the anti-ru dumping presently in effect
asciilifeform: the above is why i never dug into the 'pricing of energetics' thing in detail - i find he subj quite similar to, e.g., usg unemployment figures - i have no access to the seeeekrit evidence required to cut away the fiction from the reality
asciilifeform: *the subj
asciilifeform: at least partly because ~the usd~ is an artifact consisting largely of fiction;
asciilifeform: but also because the petro market is only partly a market, but partly also a system of tribute collection and other non-commercial exchange
asciilifeform: (e.g., what happened to saddam h's petro deal with fr, and why? where is ghaddafi's?)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu had an article, iirc, where 'when considering avg price of cars, do not also average in the price of stolen cars sold in a hurry'
asciilifeform: or did i dream this.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-29#1511408 << it is a proper field , perhaps, but makes the spy business look transparent. ftmeade leaks, saudi palace - not, afaik. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-29 06:29 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's not a matter of "deny". energy economics is a proper field, which you're welcome to learn if you care, or not. the behaviour you briefly engaged in is not unlike 15 yo alf trying to learn math by busting into brin sr's class and yelling "all functions are convex! prove me wrong!" really loudly.
asciilifeform: and mircea_popescu appears to be deliberately glossing over important difference between asciilifeform in petro thread and the proverbial 'all functions are convex!!1111' kid above
asciilifeform: which is, that mathematics is ~accessible~ to the determined mind. always, with no exception, WITHOUT demanding a swallowing of seekrit evidence.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-29#1511411 << i'd enjoy reading moar about this ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-29 06:31 mircea_popescu: this is a prime something to cleave, somehow. it is a major limit of our world, much moreso than "carbon" blabla or gravity. its unyielding pressure creates the necessity of the harem, for instance, and many things.
asciilifeform: was there an article?
shinohai: ;;later tell BingoBoingo http://ix.io/18CL
gribble: The operation succeeded.
shinohai: ;;later tell mod6 Got your telegram, worked smooth. Tested on Gentto and Debian, will update on Ubuntu.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: shinohai: added a footnote for you
shinohai: ty BingoBoingo ... thestringpuller put me on more comedy lulz incoming
BingoBoingo: brb
shinohai: ;;later tell BingoBoingo http://ix.io/18Dz
gribble: The operation succeeded.
trinque: hm odd, I've got something to fix in deedbot's ghost logic. apparently ghost doesn't work if the ghosted nick disconnects in between the connection and ghost.
asciilifeform: from the dept. of lulz: http://www.zeit.de/wissen/2016-07/turkish-academics-human-rights-ban-travel-recep-tayyip-erdogan
asciilifeform: including the brain-melter: 'Because I stay independent in my science, I am dependent on international funding. '
shinohai: dafuq
shinohai: "Because I stay independent in my Bitcoin, I am dependent on Roger Ver for funding."
asciilifeform: $up omglovethis
deedbot: omglovethis voiced for 30 minutes.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 yeah, i recall. << iirc, there was a whole pile of these second level deps. i seem to remember that at the time, there wasn't a plan in place for how to climb the mountain there. but with the primary artifacts now deeded, we have a pattern.
mod6: hopefully we can get those ones in, and work towards getting the whole wad frozen.
mod6: <shinohai> Got your telegram, worked smooth. Tested on Gentto and Debian, will update on Ubuntu. << hey thanks!
shinohai: Finished the Ubuntu build before you got on, so yeah all working nice mod6
mod6: So, yeah, added in the pull of the deeds, the checking of the sigs, uudecoded, and checked the output hashes. not just on the craptastic four; also put in explicit sig checking on the rotor and V.
mod6: Previously we were checking this, but I don't know if it was failing properly if there was a bad sig.
shinohai: I know you're gonna hate me, but I'm gonna stuff it all in an iso and try a build later with no internetz again
thestringpuller: LOL
mod6: ah. yeah might still be some changes to come if something doesn't pass the tests. so be prepared for that eventuallity until V99994 is placed in deedbot.
shinohai: Oh I know it will all get changed lol xD
mod6: so i need to still do some negative testing; i need to kinda run the script a section at a time. and in each section, exiting after it pulls an artifact, diddle the signature by hand on the fs, then resume; this should cause the signature check to fail, and the signature conditional to exit the script with an error as designed.
shinohai: ^ I actually did this to ensure I was getting correct sigs each time.
mod6: if that stuff works well, then will probably pass around for others to try before it's deed-ified
mod6: you already did all that!? ^5
mod6: i was gonna do it late lasntight, but was getting too late.
shinohai: yeah i diddled the sigs on each part and reran. Failed as expected
mod6: outstanding.
shinohai has been up since 4 am xD
mod6: nice
mod6: <+shinohai> I know you're gonna hate me, but I'm gonna stuff it all in an iso and try a build later with no internetz again << this /should/ fail. because buildroot won't be able to pull all of its stuff down.
shinohai: oh yeah, true
mod6: however, this is a decent opportunity to go a head, build with the build script, save all your terminal output to say a `script` into typescript or whatever bash logging you wanna do, and gather up the list of deps buildroot pulls so I can start to climb that mountain.
mod6: s/a head/ahead
mod6: i've done this before, I was saying in here, but.. it's been a good while since. Might be worth another gathering. If that's a bit boring or whatever, don't worry, I can tackle this later.
mod6: But if looking for a useful task...
asciilifeform: mod6 et al: https://buildroot.org/downloads/manual/manual.html#_offline_builds << may be worth looking into
mod6: asciilifeform: hey, ya, thanks.
mod6: will certainly be revisiting all of this in August.
mats: https://imgur.com/TMhU9v6.gifv
asciilifeform: mats: who/whom ?
asciilifeform: or was it exercise.
mats: exercise, idk who those people are
asciilifeform: lulzy
mats: you tracking this year's 'cyber grand challenge'?
asciilifeform: mats: not since i quit the shithole where that was my day job, l0l
asciilifeform: (i was to be sent.)
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-29#1511423 << this is a political choice, the matter's discussed pluriously. hitler pays the bill for "what he did" AND for what "he made us do". microshit has no way out of liability for the same reason the conclusion of 390 gaul campaign was not "a delegation of older women from each side got together to list each side's complaints and sufferances equally and wail together". ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-29 11:31 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-29#1511402 << nobody complained in the 10,001 times i mentioned 'the cost of microshit'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i expected this answer!
asciilifeform: my mircea_popescumulator works!111111
mircea_popescu: see alsohttp://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510475 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-27 17:55 mircea_popescu: "i'll pay your son to rape your wife with money taken from your house" is the byline of the revolution.
mircea_popescu: o look, it nukes links right out of text! neat.
mats: wao
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-29#1511426 << for ~the same reason you're invited to not value cars by the process of running down the street in a gaggle of boys this age yelling at times "whoa this is a good one, 250!" because the car had a speedometer backing listing that number. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-29 11:38 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-29#1511416 << why should i look at the instantaneous value solely, rather than this limit?
mircea_popescu: did they do that in 1990 russia also ?
mircea_popescu: but no, the 100 is not a trend indicator, it's a situation indicator. long term historical prices indicate the trend, future spot indicates the short term.
mircea_popescu: contrary to what you might think for unclear and i suspect unexamined reasons, finance is actually a quite sensible, rather complex and definitely satisfying art.
asciilifeform: point.
mircea_popescu: a
mircea_popescu: in places has a lot in common with "submarine piloting".
mircea_popescu: a submarine doesn't drive, not like a car at any rate. a submarine is a lot closer to a plane, ie, "a dot being moved on a graph". except the plane has a much ampler bubble.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-29#1511429 << not as a civilian, and for the very obvious reason. (or at least it should be obvious - past a few hundred or so, adding more "opinion"ators does not improve the overall quality of the resultant opinion, even if it increases the costs of resulting it.which is also why "inclusive" programs always fail. so people trying to figure this shit out really don't need anymore noise. good en ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-29 11:43 asciilifeform: the above is why i never dug into the 'pricing of energetics' thing in detail - i find he subj quite similar to, e.g., usg unemployment figures - i have no access to the seeeekrit evidence required to cut away the fiction from the reality
mircea_popescu: ough as it is, with everyone lying to everyone every chance they get, as part and parcel of what economics IS, this branch of cryptocurrency.)
mircea_popescu: but, ~nothing keeps you from taking the oath and then you'll know. and have no time for anything else, included remembering why the fuck you wanted to know in the first place. such is the wonder.
asciilifeform: aha, sorta how many years ago i tried to work in nsa.
asciilifeform: picture, would be there still, watering office plants or sumthing.
asciilifeform: wondering where remanant of brain - went.
mircea_popescu: as balzac would say, "une vie".
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-29#1511434 << this example doesn't work because when valuing "cars" one makes a deliberate exception of the $15 cost of the raw sheet metal going in. there is no such thing as minerals that aren't also stolen cars. again for the obvious reason - nobody's mommy picks molybden ingots from under her nails as normal part of morning hygiene. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-29 11:48 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu had an article, iirc, where 'when considering avg price of cars, do not also average in the price of stolen cars sold in a hurry'
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-29#1511436 << this is a large part of why my position is and has for a while been derisive of nsa and especially meta-nsa. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-29 11:56 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-29#1511408 << it is a proper field , perhaps, but makes the spy business look transparent. ftmeade leaks, saudi palace - not, afaik.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: here is where i must disagree: mineral that someone digs up, then sells, and the selling pays for the digging - is not in any useful sense stolen
mircea_popescu: oh ? and purse someone cuts, drives bike to and fro ?
asciilifeform: whereas if syria pumps, isis loots, and then sells for pennies on the dollar - then yes.
mats: i found this and thought it was kinda interesting https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/03/41-months-weev-understanding-how-sentencing-guidelines-work-cfaa-cases-0
mircea_popescu: you have no title over any minerals, not anymore you have it over bitcoin, or that lady's purse.
asciilifeform: i wasn't thinking of title.
mircea_popescu: the minor difference that NO ONE ELSE has title on the first two, and supposedly the lady on the third, is not germane to YOUR position.
mircea_popescu: but title is the point.
asciilifeform: but of the elementary sense in which stolen cars are not legitimately reflective of the cost of making car.
mircea_popescu: title is the problem here though.
mircea_popescu: and the deep reason title is the problem is this : that my own slavegirl, i will beat. but random whore, i will not.
mircea_popescu: ie, one doesn't improve matter he doesn't hold title to.
asciilifeform: title is a convenient fiction. whereas 'does this system run on human fat' is an answerable question. and a car market where mircea_popescu paid for his mazerati but tyrone stole and sold for fiddybux, is not conducive to continued production of mazeratis.
mircea_popescu: mno. title as understood by idiots is a convenient fiction, much like santa-the-gift-giver is a convenient fiction. this fiction does not mean it's a good idea to be a bad kiddy, in either case.
mircea_popescu: title, as a convenient fiction in common parlance, nevertheless translates a deep and important ontological difference.
asciilifeform: it is precisely the 'colour of bits' though, no ?
mircea_popescu: mno. you recall the gypsy stolen gun story ?
asciilifeform: aha?
mircea_popescu: there's a difference between cow and rifle. other than the objectively obvious and in general.
mircea_popescu: ie, that the cow is the product of someone nursing a veal ; whereas the rifle wasn't nursed from pistolhood. the joke's a joke, but "your" car and "your" chunk of copper aren't the same thing.
asciilifeform can see this.
asciilifeform: brief interlude:
asciilifeform: 807925151782775182517871917216748799011102566742887100803258635688116378471697272329930035288072836592217949023047450487352988978762273027377203809661207078015771934182524902293754943759741302669901440959601689206919805466065493904045952358461904261764541146300907626072189397288526645215188809978098259658811214042401457294790599323277349910659038507666798966533119515201399710353072749681585595559674
asciilifeform: 8383575217432181074792435301770768726610455339706791900935464128698326897340546560352914870971538835730445303345837491825537422632877761923523966252818257555740374555481868300398678595310369133225524118743778876169
mircea_popescu: i never thought i'd be excited by how long they are.
asciilifeform: is a perfect square.
mircea_popescu: whoa!
asciilifeform: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/DDDE667282B355D21D9F0E3505442E332AB082F487BFFC440034D11D636FD6A7
asciilifeform: ^ his
mircea_popescu: now THAT is an accident ?
asciilifeform: SURPRISINGLY, the only one.
mircea_popescu: squares ? rly ?
asciilifeform: in whole db.
mircea_popescu: interesting.
asciilifeform: it means he's phucked, as soon as i add the knob for manually augmenting 8ball.
mircea_popescu: heh.
asciilifeform: i would dearly love to know where mr. Khadeer generated his key.
mircea_popescu: anyway, yes "made of human fat" is answerable. the problem is - everything's made of human fat. much more important a question is, to use ballas' exceptionally apt terminology for the matter, "is this an impossible fantasy to be pursued at the expene of your labour and your life" ? the lori gottlieb question.
asciilifeform: follow the 'seen elsewhere' links, aslo
mircea_popescu: it is ALSO answerable, except not in certain ways. from a particular solipsistic position, the "probability" of there existing such a thing as a cube of bronze is just as remote as the probability of there existing a cube of antimatter the same size.
mircea_popescu: THIS incidentally is a problem you run into all the time.
asciilifeform: hm?
asciilifeform: ( meanwhile: Mahmood Khadeer <mhkhadee@hotmail.com>; none <algemeenoptie2@gmail.com>;
asciilifeform: User(s):
asciilifeform: Godless Prayer <godless.prayer@gmx.de>;
mircea_popescu: Mahmood Khadeer , " president and co-founder of the Muslim Association of Puget Sound (MAPS)" ?
asciilifeform: john <john.k.pescador@hawaii.gov>;
asciilifeform: Bjoern Schroedel <bjoern@schroedel.cc>;
asciilifeform: Nick Ruston <alliancemicro@dodemall.redcheetah.com>;
asciilifeform: Bjoern Schroedel <bjoern.schroedel@gmx.de>;
asciilifeform: ^ all share this modulus ^.
asciilifeform: )
mircea_popescu: dodemail ?
mircea_popescu: ahahaha wut.
asciilifeform: i have nfi !
mircea_popescu: pretty lulzy compost matter.
asciilifeform: aha! in what did they generate key, in old rusty stove ?
asciilifeform: or is this elaborate tr0l0l0l.
asciilifeform: or wat.
mircea_popescu: it'd have to be a state the art ownatron. seeing how rusty stoves has small chances of finding squares quite so deliciously.
asciilifeform: eh you get one simply when pgptron sets q to equal p
asciilifeform: instead of bothering with generating a q
mircea_popescu: what's this, the "halfkey" mode ?
asciilifeform: the 'mother dropped me as a baby but i will write a pgptron' mode, possibly
asciilifeform: or shenanigans with diddled keygen
mircea_popescu: seems improbable that dropped baby manages to compile hello world. to my eyes it's rather deliberate, but anyway.
asciilifeform: 'redcheetah.com' redirects to http://op.ecisolutions.com/red-falcon.aspx
asciilifeform: ^ they sell some sort of cloud nonsense
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-29#1511439 << not so, sadly. mathematics is accessible, yes, but only to the clear mind. the determined mind has clarity problems definitionally. you generally see just how fucking accessible mathematics is to the determined mind when reviewing the quality of statistics work produced by determined minds. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-29 11:59 asciilifeform: which is, that mathematics is ~accessible~ to the determined mind. always, with no exception, WITHOUT demanding a swallowing of seekrit evidence.
mircea_popescu: we even did some of that in channel.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is accessible in the sense that i dun need to swear an oath, get tatooed, castrate meself with rusty knife, etc. to become adept.
asciilifeform: nor be of aryan blood, or the like.
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/a-practical-exercise-for-people-who-cant-afford-airfare/ << determined minds.
asciilifeform: determined AND 'this tall to play', goes without saying
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but you do, in a sense. where's that oglaf...
asciilifeform: 'any man can learn to fire a pistol' 'but this one here has no hands' 'wasn't speaking of him , wtf'
mircea_popescu: http://oglaf.com/feral-chic/
asciilifeform: lol!
mircea_popescu: yawell...
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-29#1511442 << no, not really, perhaps past the "bitcoin is creating its own set of problems". ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-29 12:08 asciilifeform: was there an article?
mircea_popescu: sadly all the idiots are busy "researching" their way out of the hole digging in just about the opposite direction.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the one where 'boys cannot safely misbehave and learn' ?
mircea_popescu: but my vituperations of "iliteracy" as exemplified by your arcane symbology et all is not unrelated.
mircea_popescu: there's problems here.
mircea_popescu: and they ate the lions.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah.
asciilifeform: i very much recall that piece.
mircea_popescu: anyway. the irony of ironies, smooth in its uncanny fineness, is that THERE WOULD BE what to do to pay back the money spent on "studies".
mircea_popescu: they're just not doing it.
asciilifeform: oh btw, http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/cair-condemns-attack-on-seattle-jewish-center-57084602.html << mahmoud khadeer @ hotmail etc.
asciilifeform: didja know ! these attract SUCH MAGICal bitrot
asciilifeform: makes perfect square rsa mod, factorable in motherfucking O(1), every time!111111
asciilifeform: http://wizbangblog.com/content/2006/07/29/when-you-cair-enough-to-say-th.php << obligatory metawank re above.
asciilifeform: aaaaand
asciilifeform: https://github.com/johnpescador << john <john.k.pescador@hawaii.gov>
asciilifeform: ^ ~empty
asciilifeform: https://catalog.data.gov/dataset/oahu-state-public-parking-lots-fcdc9 << same. ???
mircea_popescu: heh.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-29#1511452 << yeah. it finds nothing to ghost. do a release right before trying to connect i ugess. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-29 14:33 trinque: hm odd, I've got something to fix in deedbot's ghost logic. apparently ghost doesn't work if the ghosted nick disconnects in between the connection and ghost.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-29#1511453 << pretty obviously, kickstarter-level spy is stuck now. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-29 14:36 asciilifeform: from the dept. of lulz: http://www.zeit.de/wissen/2016-07/turkish-academics-human-rights-ban-travel-recep-tayyip-erdogan
asciilifeform: independent!1111 woman!111 in SCIENCE!!!!
mircea_popescu: love how they present this "anyone has to assume they are being eavesdropped on" as some sort of bad thing. cuz you know, it's not mother-usa doing it.
mircea_popescu: "protest for peace"
asciilifeform: aha, only orcish eavesdropping, with clicks in the rotary phone, counts
mircea_popescu: should have fucking beheaded the lot.
asciilifeform: just like only orcish murder counts, and not michael hastings et al
asciilifeform: and only orcish 'corruption' is corruption, and not lockheed. etc
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-29#1511465 << this is a great idea. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-29 15:04 shinohai: I know you're gonna hate me, but I'm gonna stuff it all in an iso and try a build later with no internetz again
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-29#1511478 << yeah but you also get to see what all the shit is. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-29 15:18 mod6: <+shinohai> I know you're gonna hate me, but I'm gonna stuff it all in an iso and try a build later with no internetz again << this /should/ fail. because buildroot won't be able to pull all of its stuff down.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-29#1511478 << yeah but you also get to see what all the shit is. << yeah totally. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-29 15:18 mod6: <+shinohai> I know you're gonna hate me, but I'm gonna stuff it all in an iso and try a build later with no internetz again << this /should/ fail. because buildroot won't be able to pull all of its stuff down.
shinohai: Hey mircea_popescu doesn't think I'm *totally* crazy :D
mircea_popescu: :p
mircea_popescu: ima brb dusting off some gear.
mircea_popescu: $up peter___
deedbot: peter___ voiced for 30 minutes.
peter___: thanks
peter___: is this interview happening today?
thestringpuller: interview?
asciilifeform: wat
asciilifeform: phf ^ ??
deedbot: [Recent Phuctorings.] Phuctored: 89884656743115795386465259539451236680898848947115328636715040578866337902750481566354238661203768010560056939935696678829394884407208311246423715319737062188883946712432742638151109800623047059726541476042502884419075341171231440736956555270413618581675255342293149119973622969239858152417678164812112069763 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Mahmood Khadeer <mhkhadee@hotmail.com>; ' - http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/DD
deedbot: [Recent Phuctorings.] Phuctored: 89884656743115795386465259539451236680898848947115328636715040578866337902750481566354238661203768010560056939935696678829394884407208311246423715319737062188883946712432742638151109800623047059726541476042502884419075341171231440736956555270413618581675255342293149119973622969239858152417678164812112069763 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'none <algemeenoptie2@gmail.com>; ' - http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/06C393B10
deedbot: [Recent Phuctorings.] Phuctored: 89884656743115795386465259539451236680898848947115328636715040578866337902750481566354238661203768010560056939935696678829394884407208311246423715319737062188883946712432742638151109800623047059726541476042502884419075341171231440736956555270413618581675255342293149119973622969239858152417678164812112069763 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Bjoern Schroedel <bjoern.schroedel@gmx.de>; ' - http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgke
deedbot: [Recent Phuctorings.] Phuctored: 89884656743115795386465259539451236680898848947115328636715040578866337902750481566354238661203768010560056939935696678829394884407208311246423715319737062188883946712432742638151109800623047059726541476042502884419075341171231440736956555270413618581675255342293149119973622969239858152417678164812112069763 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Nick Ruston <alliancemicro@dodemall.redcheetah.com>; ' - http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.
deedbot: [Recent Phuctorings.] Phuctored: 89884656743115795386465259539451236680898848947115328636715040578866337902750481566354238661203768010560056939935696678829394884407208311246423715319737062188883946712432742638151109800623047059726541476042502884419075341171231440736956555270413618581675255342293149119973622969239858152417678164812112069763 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Bjoern Schroedel <bjoern@schroedel.cc>; ' - http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/78
deedbot: [Recent Phuctorings.] Phuctored: 89884656743115795386465259539451236680898848947115328636715040578866337902750481566354238661203768010560056939935696678829394884407208311246423715319737062188883946712432742638151109800623047059726541476042502884419075341171231440736956555270413618581675255342293149119973622969239858152417678164812112069763 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'john <john.k.pescador@hawaii.gov>; ' - http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/C2F16F6
deedbot: [Recent Phuctorings.] Phuctored: 89884656743115795386465259539451236680898848947115328636715040578866337902750481566354238661203768010560056939935696678829394884407208311246423715319737062188883946712432742638151109800623047059726541476042502884419075341171231440736956555270413618581675255342293149119973622969239858152417678164812112069763 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Godless Prayer <godless.prayer@gmx.de>; ' - http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/C2
asciilifeform: there ^ .
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ^
mircea_popescu: mm ?
mircea_popescu: dun tell me log off again ?
asciilifeform: ah i forgot that phf's rubbish log is down again
asciilifeform: try Framedragger's
mircea_popescu: link ?
asciilifeform: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/today
mircea_popescu: ty
mircea_popescu: lol this one munges links.
mircea_popescu: srsly, gpgkey/DD ? what's this, its titsize ?
asciilifeform: that's trinque's thing
asciilifeform: or possibly limit of irc blob
asciilifeform: i have nfi why he doesn't simply transmit N blobs.
mircea_popescu: ah there's that.
asciilifeform: anyway they are all in same place as before,
asciilifeform: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/DDDE667282B355D21D9F0E3505442E332AB082F487BFFC440034D11D636FD6A7
trinque: asciilifeform: nfi eh?
trinque: haven't fucking gotten to it
mircea_popescu: so what is ^ about this ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that there is now a generic hopper that takes 'F may be a factor of M, if verifies, entered in db'
asciilifeform: at some point in near future i will expose it publicly.
mircea_popescu: ah! manual expansion added ? neat.
asciilifeform: aha.
asciilifeform: manual with verification that 1) M exists in key db and 2) F divides M.
mircea_popescu: publicly going too far imo, not even sure it's for lordship.
mircea_popescu: why exactly would someone pop a magic number in there ?
asciilifeform: leaked privs ? dunno.
mircea_popescu: let them push the keys then
asciilifeform: do we want a public rape pit ?
asciilifeform: it takes a few msec to test one of these.
mircea_popescu: a msec is a msec.
asciilifeform: about same number of cycles as a page load, mircea_popescu .
asciilifeform: this is not really a dos vector.
mircea_popescu: you're then stuck storing them...
asciilifeform: we're storing keys anyway
asciilifeform: any idiot could generate a TB of crud keys.
asciilifeform: so long as they are rfc-tronic.
asciilifeform: and put in.
asciilifeform: (for some reason, nobody's bothered.)
mircea_popescu: i dunno, your thing, your call. i dun see the benefit.
asciilifeform: only correct answers are stored.
asciilifeform: benefit is that anyone who, via whatever means, factors a mod, can pop it.
asciilifeform: thus far it exists for my own convenience.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell BingoBoingo consider qntra-fication for the Mahmood Khadeer find ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
trinque: +asciilifeform │ ah i forgot that phf's rubbish log is down again << I don't remember anyone in-wot signing any code for whatever shoddy IRC daemon freenode uses.
trinque: thought somebody was working on a replacement for all that
mircea_popescu: yeah about time for something like that hm ?
asciilifeform: lel aha.
asciilifeform: i must point out that kako's log somehow didn't spend good chunk of its time being down.
asciilifeform: (i do not know how.)
trinque: eh assbot was disconnected time to time as well
asciilifeform: but reconnected.
mircea_popescu: not lisp :D
asciilifeform: lolsp
trinque: I clearly recall him going to kick it time to time
mircea_popescu: it was pretty stable. current situation is by comparison pretty scandalous. not perfect, sure, but perfecter.
trinque: I've shared some code with phf, but can otherwise just feed him log data from deedbot if he ever wants
trinque: all mine lacks at the moment is knowing to just switch to the nick if ghost fails
trinque: shared a vpatch with him to look over the other day
asciilifeform: incidentally, holy fuck,
asciilifeform: 0x4000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000483000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000145b09.
asciilifeform: ^ today's maaaagic mod.
asciilifeform: in hex.
trinque: holy mask batman
asciilifeform: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x7FB82C851C5F7748 << the lul is quite visible, incidentally, to naked eye
asciilifeform: none of the keyz (they are, note, independent, other than by containing this mod turd) seem to have valid selfsig.
asciilifeform: but,
asciilifeform: unlike earlier mutilated 'piltdown men', none seem to have extant earlier, uncorrupted versions of themselves:
asciilifeform: e.g., http://pool.sks-keyservers.net/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=alliancemicro%40dodemall.redcheetah.com&fingerprint=on
asciilifeform: ^ only the magic key
asciilifeform: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=mhkhadee%40hotmail.com&fingerprint=on << ditto.
asciilifeform: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=john.k.pescador%40hawaii.gov&fingerprint=on << ditto.
asciilifeform: actually
asciilifeform: 1 does,
asciilifeform: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=bjoern.schroedel%40gmx.de&fingerprint=on << him.
asciilifeform: ^ BUT! his other keys is NOT the uncorrupted original of the one we see.
asciilifeform: it is a wholly different key.
asciilifeform: the diddled key has a distinct self-sig (my pgptron will not eat it, so i cannot easily evaluate where it may have come from)
asciilifeform: and claims a time of Tue Jun 16 06:26:53 EDT 2015
asciilifeform: original : Tue Jun 16 02:36:44 EDT 2015 .
asciilifeform: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/fe0a4476-e67d-445c-a3b6-cd6f84d2e2ed/?raw=true << dump outputs.
asciilifeform: http://www.redmond-reporter.com/news/288757371.html << moar khadeer.
asciilifeform: jan 15 2015: 'Mahmood Khadeer, the president and one of the founders of the Muslim Association of Puget Sound (MAPS) in Redmond, echoed this sentiment in a letter he sent out to the mosque’s community. In the letter, Khadeer — who said MAPS condemns the acts carried out by the terrorists last week — said some opponents of the prophet “insulted him, mistreated him, gathered filth at his door
asciilifeform: and threw camel entrails at him,” while others “taunted him and pelted him with rocks until he bled.” And yet, Muhammad forgave them, Khadeer wrote.'
asciilifeform: http://www.seattleglobalist.com/2016/07/06/muslim-association-puget-sound-greets-governor-eid/53426 << and again him.
asciilifeform: too many of these pr turds to list. most quite ununteresting.
asciilifeform: but fella does get around.
asciilifeform: *uninteresting
mircea_popescu: yeah pocket astroturf element.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform thinking about it, dead drop for key factor would in fact produce a very cheap and effective leak method. someone finding themselves in possession of such data doesn't currently have a good way to dump it, gotta go through the greenwaldwall at best.
mircea_popescu: but for this to work will have to be public rather than wot.
mircea_popescu: anyway, i now see teh wisdom.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo or any other energetic fella , might be interested in writing to khadeer about 'his' pubkey ?
mircea_popescu: maybe interview the guy about muslims etc ; drop it sideways mid interview.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: yes, and it prolly will need the ability to eat straight privkeys - 'i found this here thumb drive, and it had...'
mircea_popescu: an unpredicted direction but not obviously invalid.
asciilifeform: i suspect that most 'finders' have nfi how to get p and q out, why not give a little helpin' hand.
mircea_popescu: aha
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ;;later tell BingoBoingo consider qntra-fication for the Mahmood Khadeer find ? << Maybe do a draft?
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo or any other energetic fella , might be interested in writing to khadeer about 'his' pubkey ? << WHo wants this scoop?
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell peter___ Who is your daddy and what does he do. Also what interview?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: $up smickles
deedbot: smickles voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: you /pm deedbot $up
mircea_popescu: that moment when you realise that the two funny looking horn items a foot apart embedded in bathroom wall are NOT actually towel hangers.
shinohai: >.>
mircea_popescu: EXACTLY right height for 1.79 girl to hold on for dear life on.
BingoBoingo: brb