mircea_popescu wonders at this novel tendency of us military types to call traditional warfare "kinetic".
mircea_popescu: what the fuck are these people thinking ? they're seeing themselves as some sort of 17th century naval artillery dudes, firing kugels at one another ? there's nothing kinetic about weapons in use today, they're all thermic.
mircea_popescu: even the fucking nukes are thermic weapons. what kinetic ?
Joshua-I: Pretty kinetic until they're not
mircea_popescu: kinetic usually denotes macroscopic moving items not fucking ions
mircea_popescu: in fairness i guess they are researching rail guns to fire bullet-like items
mircea_popescu: has the added benefit that it makes me think they have no fucking idea what they're talking about.
mats: i wonder about the feasibility of railgun-assisted orbital launches
mircea_popescu: mats you're not the first. that thing's been a solution in search of a problem since ~1916.
mircea_popescu: it dun work worth a shit, electromagnetism is a self-limiting disease so to speak, but hey.
ben_vulpes: not to mention the accelerations involved make it more or less entirely impractical for anything other than raw materials.
ben_vulpes: at that point, you may as well save on fab and engineering costs and submerge a hydrogen gun right under the water
mats: being able to hurl a rock at enormous speeds over the horizon seems like a useful capability
mircea_popescu: anyway, iirc us navy launched a breadbox sized item at about 10km/s or somesuch. cost a little more than a littoral com-sunkship.
ben_vulpes: bonus, you can point the latter. not so much for either the cannon or railgun.
ben_vulpes: mats: sure, but how do rockets not solve this better and more cheaply
mats: its a solution to certain tactical problems, but none in the civilian arena
ben_vulpes: the *single best bet* on orbital advances in my lifetime is the mach-5 airbreather.
mats: ben_vulpes: well, they tend to be unguided
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: once it leaves compressible atmo, it cuts over to internal o2 supply fed directly into the *same* combustion chambers.
mats: but idk anything about rocketry, so i'll stop here
ben_vulpes: mats: why would one want an unguided projectile?
ben_vulpes: the only new part of the whole system is the precooler to take air at mach5 and cool it without frosting everything over.
☟︎ mats: i suppose the real advantage would be the raw kinetic energy being delivered
mats: i wonder how useful it is as a bunker buster
ben_vulpes: the further away your target is, the less useful the railgun and the more useful the classic icbm.
ben_vulpes: (less useful because a) drag losses and b) accuracy)
ben_vulpes: but like cold fusion, railguns keep usg contractors in the procurement pipeline.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-13 04:29 ben_vulpes: the only new part of the whole system is the precooler to take air at mach5 and cool it without frosting everything over.
mats: you've got him now, he's going to talk about rockets for hours
mircea_popescu: mats it's very hard to beat plain and simple fire-air bombs. you gotta put electricity through coils to make the projectile go magnetically, electricity which you got from a combustion generator in the first place.you're about five transforms away, might as well just put the same gasoline in a bottle and throw it at the enemy.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes it's a simple problem of mass conservation though. if your compression factor is 1:10, say, and you burn 1 ton of fuel, you then therefore get a cubic kilometer worth of air, which will contain a ton and a half of water, what do you do with it. it doesn't burn, it doesn't go away. nowwut.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's pretty insane seeing how rocket can maneuver.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: turns to steam helps with isp
ben_vulpes: srsly this is kindergarten rocket chem
ben_vulpes: $google more things under heaven and earth
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes yes yes. the comparison of the engine to the rocket is flawed. because the rocket doesn't aspire [random gunk] from atmosphere.
mircea_popescu: atmosphere contains water. this is a problem, because mass.
ben_vulpes: mass in rocket exhaust is a /good thing/ ffs.
ben_vulpes: the only reason is because von braun was a savage.
mircea_popescu: but your problem was that it dun wanna go, it wanna freeze over your assemblages
ben_vulpes: it wants to freeze over the intercooler hooked to the h2.
ben_vulpes: keep it from doing that, you have cold, high pressure ambient gas you can dump into a steady state reaction chamber.
mircea_popescu: werll for that money, keep gas from growing fat after marriage, you got desktop cold fusion.
ben_vulpes: and so long as there is o2, it *will* burn.
ben_vulpes: so, keep water from precipitating out of the gas coming in, cool it rapidly by dumping the heat into the h2, react h2 and o2 (and yes, some h2o), you have an air-breathing rocket that (yes, nominally) can operate in atmosphere with out consuming onboard o2 all the way up to mach 5.
ben_vulpes: leave atmo, cut over to internal fuel supply.
ben_vulpes: if it works (and what, the brits can't do anything, clearly), it's the only improvement with legs over the classic rocket.
mircea_popescu: i'll grant that it has more chances of being useful than the coil gun ; which isn't saying much.
mircea_popescu: btw, you folks know teh epic bill cosby series on parenting ?
ben_vulpes: what, for the novice parents, is the braindamage in cosby's routine?
ben_vulpes has not heard the thing since his youth. on vinyl!
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-13#1502308 << to put numbers on this : as it recently came out in debate with alf, diesel generators get ~40% efficiency if large enough (closer to my guess than yours! ha-HA!) ; depending on the coil design the resulting electricity will be transferred to projectile somewhere around 1 to 5% efficiency. to go higher air-cored assemblages are excluded because of the high reluctance of the damned
☝︎☟︎ a111: Logged on 2016-07-13 04:32 mircea_popescu: mats it's very hard to beat plain and simple fire-air bombs. you gotta put electricity through coils to make the projectile go magnetically, electricity which you got from a combustion generator in the first place.you're about five transforms away, might as well just put the same gasoline in a bottle and throw it at the enemy.
mircea_popescu: thing - and proper cored items are way the fuck too expensive to be destroyed over three firings.
mircea_popescu: by and large for every 100 J worth of gas you're putting in, you're getting out ~1J of ~muzzle velocity~. then as ben_vulpes pointed out correctly you lose most of this to air friction (longer range ? MUCH MORE FRICTION!), so you deliver maybe 1kJ or 2 per MJ expended.
mircea_popescu: if you just dump the fuel on enemy, you get 500x bang for the buck. eventually you cook him, through whatever bunker. it's why there's no bunkers in the sun.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes he says the words, "because kids have brain damage".
mats: there is the benefit of a nuclear reactor driving the gun
mats: i see your point though
mircea_popescu: oh and the caper : obviously the coil is a lc oscillator. the remainder 95 to 99% energy doesn't simply disappear. it COMES BACK in the circuit. going... the other way.
mircea_popescu: mats yeah, in a post-oil world all sorts of things might make more sense.
mats: what do you mean by post-oil
mats: something better or scarcity?
mircea_popescu: much like the current "something better" wall materials kids kick holes into aren't better than brick and concrete. even if some claim otherwise.
mircea_popescu: but otherwise - i have here this battery, contained in a thin PET cover, ready to do ~1,2 MJ at my command. go, construct battery, compressed coil, box of covenant or lavey's teeth assemblage that can do a mj and fit in a gallon.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: we'll discuss stability afterwards, as a sign of me not thinking i'll have to.
ben_vulpes: today we learn that mircea_popescu has tiny bukkits
ben_vulpes: i witnesesd a feller at burning man receive the moniker of 'princess buckets' one time.
ben_vulpes: i strolled out of my tent at ~9a to him drinking directly from the bottle. said, "i'm drunk! what do you think about that?" "psh, you're nowhere near drunk"
mircea_popescu: well, a one man bukkake's just called "i don't want kids" neh ?
ben_vulpes: two more hours of that, i leave to go toodle around on vehicles on the desert. come back, he's asleep on the couch, head deep in five gallons of orange.
ben_vulpes: pulls his head out, whines plaintively, "may i have another bucket please?"
ben_vulpes: "another bucket?! what are you a princess?"
mircea_popescu: this sounds just like the shittier fraternity on campus.
ben_vulpes: Joshua-I: i did not know that tungsten was psychoactive
Joshua-I: Well it sounds pretty tame for burning man
mats: mircea_popescu: on the matter of post-oil, i do wonder what the world would look like in 10, 100 years after cold fusion
mats: i'm not gonna volunteer, but i think humans wanna get off this rock and thats not a terrible idea
mircea_popescu: prolly every cavortess or w/e her name was living in hypercube houses
Joshua-I: I hope it looks even more ridiculous than it does now
Joshua-I: Absurdist capitalism will dominate!
mats: your pessimism is refreshing
mircea_popescu: it's not pessimism just because i didn't vote for change!
Joshua-I: I will return to ebbits and curry
BingoBoingo: "Taylor appeared at an arraignment Monday in St. Louis County Circuit Court, telling Judge Joseph Dueker that he wanted to represent himself “pro per.” The legal term to represent oneself is “pro se.” Dueker told him he didn’t know what “pro per” meant and gave Taylor until July 27 to decide how he will be represented."
mircea_popescu: you mean other than "i want to make a comic and don't perceive i should invest into drawing or writing skills, whoever loves me loves for me!" ?
mircea_popescu: it's the comic equivalent of a fat ugly woman that doesn't wash or ever shut up.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-12 17:49 mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-12#1502056 << this is what you get for sending ustards to college. they "adapt" what they read to the "practical needs" in their environment. problem ?
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: not yet, and that's due to lack of time, and generally lazy vibes over the summer (a festival or two, reading books etc) i know i should take a careful look at v, and i dun want to botch it, hence terribly slow with it
mircea_popescu: no prob. just didn't want for you to get teh idea i just said that to give you busywork or somesuch. the thing's actually important.
Framedragger: this may sound like bait, but.... could you not just use signed commits in git, and enforce use of those commits, and use `git blame`? is the argument against this the usual "git is a shitload of code, best to start anew [and also without existing political associations re. github etc.]", or sth more than that?
☟︎ mircea_popescu: Framedragger as to your words, the political association of git is at best with linus & the linux folk, i dun see what it has to do with github anymore than sunsets have to do with bad photography. but as to the actual issue : on one hand there's a ton of code there ; on the other there's absent functionality.
mircea_popescu: in such a situation we sometimes decide to hammer a source into usability (such as, bitcoin, eulora, etc). but just as often decide to write de novo. how exactly this decision is made is not exactly specified.
Framedragger: regarding the association: previously i got the impression that you thought git and github are now being confused and hence best to get rid of git and start anew anyway. maybe wrong impression
shinohai: Don't worry, v and t make github obsolete
mircea_popescu is always keen to discuss later interpretations of what he actually said at some point.
Framedragger: how do i search for multiple words associated by OR, not AND? $s works for this but btcbase's search doesn't, right?
mircea_popescu: it proved to be hands down the #1 most productive learning technique in the harem over the years. i expect it works universally.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger "" gives literal matches, otherwise words are or'd together.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-20#1469423 fwiw but it's now much. i'm now convinced i had originally misinterpreted. at that point i was assuming that you had basically thrown out git in your mind as useless as it had been tainted with too strong an association with github. if that even makes sense.
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2016-05-20 15:53 mircea_popescu: Framedragger actually, the process of creating github and then confusing git for github, aka embrace and extinguish / "rms-ing" is also amply discussed in teh logs :)
mircea_popescu: makes perfect sense, which is why the process of searching etc is worthwhile.
mircea_popescu: trilema's even worse, there i have the time to elaborately bait people. here i'm stuck with much shorter intervals.
Framedragger: heh, yeah, i see what you mean. trilema allows for more elaborate.. structures
mircea_popescu: interpretation being just about the only art worth the time.
Framedragger: heh. i listened to a weirdo almost-atonal musical piece yesterday by a friend who's doing sonology / electronic music (yeah such precise terms, i know). it was fkin great, lots of effort but worth it methinks. but then, the point is that this also counts as 'interpretation', possibly
Framedragger: 'cause you do have to really follow and think about the concepts used in the thing if you want to enjoy it beyond the superficial-level "wow such pretty noise"
Framedragger: and prolly retink them laters as you relisten etc
mircea_popescu: yeah. just, i'm generally too lazy for non-verbal arts.
deedbot: Bigbootycutefeet voiced for 30 minutes.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-13 04:55 mircea_popescu: but otherwise - i have here this battery, contained in a thin PET cover, ready to do ~1,2 MJ at my command. go, construct battery, compressed coil, box of covenant or lavey's teeth assemblage that can do a mj and fit in a gallon.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-13 11:48 Framedragger: this may sound like bait, but.... could you not just use signed commits in git, and enforce use of those commits, and use `git blame`? is the argument against this the usual "git is a shitload of code, best to start anew [and also without existing political associations re. github etc.]", or sth more than that?
Framedragger: watching linux kernel dev be managed with v may, i imagine, be a sight of entertainment, but then something tells me alf et al. are against such monolithic codebases in the first place
☟︎ Framedragger: so in the case of an os kernel, you'd just make sure to break down the source into codebase modules so to speak?
Framedragger: i guess the fact that you need to arrive at a single kernel executable file does not hinder this (cf. all those exokernel projects, not that exokernel architecture is the right approach)
Framedragger: linus chose to do the whole 'driver is part of kernel' thing, yeah.
Framedragger: well, it's hard to disagree, on second thought.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-13 04:47 mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-13#1502308 << to put numbers on this : as it recently came out in debate with alf, diesel generators get ~40% efficiency if large enough (closer to my guess than yours! ha-HA!) ; depending on the coil design the resulting electricity will be transferred to projectile somewhere around 1 to 5% efficiency. to go higher air-cored assemblages are excluded because of the high reluctance of the damned
mats: mircea_popescu, mod6: thanks for your contribution to the courts project!
a111: Logged on 2016-07-13 15:34 Framedragger: watching linux kernel dev be managed with v may, i imagine, be a sight of entertainment, but then something tells me alf et al. are against such monolithic codebases in the first place
mircea_popescu: and the fuckwit parade will consider it tantamount to the bad touch.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-13 15:38 asciilifeform: (why do 1,001 sound cards need to exist?)
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-13#1502520 << eh, in "theory", which is to say "in the peculiar fictitious narrative some people jack off to". the limiting factor for both is drag, and it ain't going away. "oh but what if we're shooting spherical chickens in a vacuum" "you're still better off with a rocket stfu".
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2016-07-13 15:47 asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu unlike any type of cannon, railgun imposes no limit on projectile energy. that is the whole reason for it.
mircea_popescu: which is why nukes are rockets rather than bullets, be those bullets accelerated chemically, magnetically or whichever other way.
mircea_popescu: that's the only projectile of unlimited energy : a rocket. because it slides under the door of air friction.
mircea_popescu: just because they couldn't in 1920 doesn't mean they can't today.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not every bit, no. because drag goes up ^1/3 with mass and ^3 with speed.
mircea_popescu: so you're better off hiding the energy in mass than in speed.
mircea_popescu: if it's not worth hitting with a ~$1k rocket, it's sure as fuck not worth hitting with a ~200k railgun shot.
mircea_popescu: but, in all war, the cost of ammo is mostly a cost of opportunity.
mircea_popescu: 90% of it goes into "getting a guy there to do it" and 1% or so into "cartridge price tag"
☟︎ mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes. they are insanely expensive. you're thinking "oh, it's like a gun, hence railgun". no, it's not. your gun fires a magazine, then needs cleaning, then fires another and will do 10k cycles or more. the rail gun fires one thing, needs servicing, and will do maybe 3 ? 5 ? 12 ?
mircea_popescu: then the capacitors need replacing, the diodes are burned out and the whole thing's gunked over.
mircea_popescu: rifle gets residue from the propellant. rail gun is magnetic, gets all residue from environment, also creates new residue out of solids.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-13 16:12 mircea_popescu: 90% of it goes into "getting a guy there to do it" and 1% or so into "cartridge price tag"
Framedragger: oh the sweet naivete and woes of internet's ephemeral aspects: has anyone (re)read the bitcoin foundations declaration of independence recently?
http://thebitcoin.foundation/declaration.txt that link tied to taxation of bitcoin profits does not work anymore, for example. i guess the declaration's main matter was in spirit anyway
trinque: Framedragger: myup, deeds.bitcoin-assets.com no longer points to deedbot.org
jurov: no it's not, tresurer contract was separate deed
jurov: iirc it was in first deedbot incarnation and i had to pester the deeds.b-a second deedbot incarnation to reupload it
jurov: we are now at fourth deedbot or such?
trinque: jurov remembers nothing except maybe having complained about something or other, and it being very bothersome.
jurov: trinque yes that sounds right
jurov: and yes, deed-2014-11-03-22-31-27.txt is it
Framedragger: this concludes the ipv4 ssh key scan (the new keys are due to re-scan + the previously-excluded hetzner hosting ip ranges). i may rescan in a couple of weeks or a month to see how many new etc (and in general it would be a good and interesting exercise, etc.) some kind of writeup will follow...eventually
Framedragger: (oh, and 1. will sign a checksum at some point (soon); and 2. the tarball contains three compressed files which expand into three dirs, with ~600k files per dir; one file = one openpgp key, same as last time)
mircea_popescu: imagine, 2nd anniversary of independence coming up soonish
ben_vulpes: awkwardly far from all astronomical cycle dates.
Framedragger: *to include the new ssh_openpgp_diff_2016-07-13.tar is what i meant
mod6: This year, the anniversary of the declaration is on Election Day in the US. lol. We should go and stand in places and read this outloud like they used to do after the signing in 1776.
mod6: There's maybe a few congregating spots dedicated to art, et. al. here where I'm at. Probably in most places.
mod6: Hot chicks? If one is lucky.
phf: we've been building kites with my girlfriend, i might pick up one of those plans for next project
shinohai: ;;later tell mod6 471a2ce942966a575f00d310ed4a0be4f5f58f57d6d56caaa4bf55d7ea7e72f3f79c36f88fd84bd6f72198b5a841fb8f568c7679940d85d3030afe1fb022d0ec bitcoind
phf: asciilifeform: which reminds me, is that at linker level or assembler? because i wanted to try generating intermediate S files, and if that's where turds are, perhaps stripping them programmatically
shinohai: force of habit. anyway, it built. twice
phf: right getting identical environment as far as gcc is concerned
mircea_popescu: phf many of them not really much work beyond "cylindrical kite". light wood structure + wax paper.