log
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asciilifeform: in other lulz, https://www.deepdotweb.com/2016/07/13/new-partnership-aims-to-put-an-end-to-child-porn-related-bitcoin-use
mircea_popescu: still with this ?
asciilifeform: 'Recently, the IWF provided Elliptic a database of bitcoin addresses that they identified with child porn. With this information, Elliptic can identify those illegal activities on the blockchain (bitcoin’s public ledger of transactions). James Smith, CEO of Elliptic said this regarding their involvement: “This is the first time anybody has started identifying these crimes in bitcoin and flagging them up in a system like ours. Thi
asciilifeform: s is a great step … towards our goal of getting rid of any sort of illicit activity in bitcoin.”'
asciilifeform: apparently it never runs out !1111
mircea_popescu: it's not even worth dignifying with a mixing campaign.
asciilifeform: presumably there is a pile of payola available to favoured sons, in this particular flavour.
mircea_popescu: me has had plan drawn up to include small donation to verboten list in all txn processed for what, 3years now ? as anti-this pill.
mircea_popescu: has yet to actually justify deployment.
asciilifeform: find list, fire away, why not
mircea_popescu: and in other "venture capital backed entrepreneurial ideas re bitcoin aka blockchain technologees + their respective lamestream media coverage" news, http://67.media.tumblr.com/fdc9fa6c79e206b6caa9c8f1715cb2e8/tumblr_njzceuR9H71tonrdjo10_r1_500.gif
asciilifeform: if the blacklist peddlers have half a brain, they distribute the thing as hashes
asciilifeform: but hell knows.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's relatively few addresses actually in use, you can crack their hash in a minute or two.
asciilifeform: tru.
mircea_popescu: if they had half a brain they'd give up the pretense and go learn how to do plumbing or something useful more alligned with their intellectual capabilities.
mircea_popescu: clearly, they do not have even that half a brain.
asciilifeform: it's a 'tin woman'
asciilifeform: 'i have a fine portrait of the pharaoh machined from pure shitanium' 'have $1m'
asciilifeform: and, quite possibly, they envision it turning into $100m when 'made mandatory for legit exchanges' etc
mircea_popescu: sure, sure, and then microsoft can buy it for a trillion and then etcetera.
mircea_popescu: if not for hope, how would the jam-tomorrow socialism exist.
asciilifeform: hoap.
mircea_popescu: hoap & jew soap.
mircea_popescu: june 15th : "nato runs massive baltic exercise, with little russian meddling" ; july 6th : "putin's military buildup in the baltic stokes invasion fears".
mircea_popescu: teh lady doth protest too much, when the fuck did the "modern democracies" bloc turn into such a fucking lapdog ?
BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 420625 | Current Difficulty: 2.133989253313239E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 421343 | Next Difficulty In: 718 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 5 days, 15 hours, 41 minutes, and 6 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 656.26, vol: 6512.33113135 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 645.002, vol: 4973.66621 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 655.49, vol: 17213.09171584 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 654.59771, vol: 23276.70420000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 655.92, vol: 929.06917542 | Volume-weighted last average: 654.213758389
BingoBoingo: So, surveying the neighborhood after the latest round of wind thinned the tree canopy was in the right place and time to see powerline arc and catch fire
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-14#1502631 << But drain/waste/vent side. Dun want those monkeys playing with natural gas and I'll do my own supply side tyvm. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-14 00:24 mircea_popescu: if they had half a brain they'd give up the pretense and go learn how to do plumbing or something useful more alligned with their intellectual capabilities.
mircea_popescu: sure.
BingoBoingo: I find it disturbing how many "people" out in the wild have no idea that natural gas piping is a subset of plumbing
BingoBoingo: https://archive.is/pRwfQ
mod6: shinohai: hey thanks for giving that a try!
mod6: so last week buildroot's site was down (for about a day) and currently the dang sourceforge site doesn't seem to be allowing curl to grab the boost lib.
mod6: trinque was nice enough to host all four of the deps that we require on deedbot.org; openssl, bdb, boost, and buildroot.
mod6: So I've updated the forthcoming V99994 to pull these from deedbot.org as opposed to their respective places out in the tubes.
mod6: If anyone wants to test this along with us, let me know. Will provide you a link. Want to ensure that it works well before we deedbot the new build script.
mod6: As far as the Makefiles are concerned, we're having good success there (other than the remote sites for the deps), and will probably be making the same deedbot.org updates to that as well.
shinohai: built thrice mod6 Deb, gentoo, and Arch
mod6: great work! i build mine on gentoo, and seemed to work good this AM.
mod6: or maybe that was lastnight. either way.
mod6: 65
mod6: ^5
mod6: Will provide further updates on the makefiles project as I have them. Stay tuned.
mod6: Salud!
shinohai: if my router dies ill b back online whenever i whip comcast into shape.
mod6: give 'em hell
mircea_popescu: mod6 did you check/sign the copies ?
mod6: they are not signed at this time. the build script in its current form, will pull the dep from deedbot.org and check the SHA512 against what is hardcoded into the script. if it matches, we continue, if not we die.
mod6: I could create a clearsigned manifest that could reside on deedbot.org that could be also pulled down, verified and used.
mircea_popescu: hm
mircea_popescu: yeah what i;m thinking is, since this "we gotta import crap" thing is going to continue, might as well put some sort of deed process into it
mod6: I'm a bit hesitant to "sign" a file outright that I don't have carnal knowledge of -- say openssl - at least without a disclaimer that says "I am only confirming the SHA512 of this artifact is ABCDEF1234... This does not mean that I have read that code and it ``fits in head''."
mircea_popescu: hence why it'd be a deed rather than a v diff.
mod6: So was thinking a clearsigned manifest could do the trick there.
mod6: So, a clearsigned manifest that holds the URL and the SHA512 that I attest is correct then, deedbotted?
mircea_popescu: yeah, it would in this instance, but it'll become unmanageable in short order. because it's not just one such item
mircea_popescu: what i'm thinking is : the binary/payload in question, base64'd, deedbotted, and the build script modified to take an optional parameter to "allow deedbot import from known signatures" and then it can have a $ifdef for "buildoot"="deedbot.soandso"
mircea_popescu: and it knows that if the flag is on, it goes to where deed so and so is and checks it, debases it, unzips it etc.
mircea_popescu: make any sense ?
mircea_popescu: could have a standard disclaimer up top, have it ignore #s or w/e.
mod6: one caveat here, I want this to be the last release of the build script -- so I don't wanna do any heavy lifting here. Would rather put such effort into the makefiles instead.
mircea_popescu: makefiles also works yes. i'm thinking more in the mid term than for the next version necessarily.
mod6: Makefiles will also solve alf's complaint about "shouldn't pull these from the web at all."
mircea_popescu: at least this'd allow some basis for proper management of this mess, rather than current adhocness
mircea_popescu: (i'm not saying you're making a mess, i'm just saying - we're stuck with all this grandfathered in bullshit, such as boost, openssh, who the fuck knows what else even. qt ffs.)
BingoBoingo: From the mines, a respite https://i.imgur.com/OrGKuRv.jpg
mod6: mircea_popescu: yeah, for sure. i reading though the above here...
mod6: i think you have the same idea as i've been pondering...
mod6: let me see if I can make sense of it and say it back:
mircea_popescu: aha!
mircea_popescu: well it's just sense i say1
mod6: we make base64 encodings of the artifacts. we deedbot those, they are signed.
mircea_popescu: right
mod6: a person wants to build, presumably with the makefiles, but could be a build script... they pass the builder a flag that says "get these deps for me automatically", at which time, it'll go and fetch the deed(s) and verify them, decode them, and place them in the correct place and continue building.
mod6: Or not, and they place the deps in there by hand, on their own. Then continue building.
mircea_popescu: only if signed by people you trust the sigs of
mod6: Ok, so .wot directory is required here.
mircea_popescu: ya
mircea_popescu: since we got it, use it neh ?
mod6: Yeah, it certainly has to be there.
mod6: for the buildscript and the makefiles. so that makes sense.
mod6: trinque: is there a max length for deeds? (just curious about the above ^, some of these might be mightly large)
mircea_popescu: an you put a number on that ?
mod6: mircea_popescu: thanks for your input here, its high time that we get away from the adhoc nature of this build process.
mod6: sure, lemme see here...
mircea_popescu: slowly but wsurely you know ?
mircea_popescu: mod6 specifically, iirc it's tens of mb not gb. amirite ?
mircea_popescu: and in other ethedao news, today toelik butt-erin releases DA CONE! https://media.giphy.com/media/hYXKE2SGWmYIU/giphy.gif
mod6: $ wc -l boost_1_52_0.tar.bz2.base64
mod6: 954767 boost_1_52_0.tar.bz2.base64
mod6: $ du -sh boost_1_52_0.tar.bz2.base64
mod6: 71M boost_1_52_0.tar.bz2.base64
mod6: $ du -sh boost_1_52_0.tar.bz2
mod6: 52M boost_1_52_0.tar.bz2
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 specifically, iirc it's tens of mb not gb. amirite ? << Yes, Sir.
mod6: So hopefully that'll be just fine.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> at least this'd allow some basis for proper management of this mess, rather than current adhocness << the nice part about the makefiles and your preposed solution is that we would finally have a solution in place for all of this.
mircea_popescu: ya not the end of the world. pretty big though. see what trinqwue says
mircea_popescu: mod6 aha
mod6: it really has been like herding cats to get all of the build infrastructure into place.
mircea_popescu: i bet
mod6: it'll be nice to be able to move forward from this part.
mircea_popescu: but hoenstly seems to be actually coming together
mod6: it is. slowly, but surely.
mod6: which isn't a bad thing; i'd rather do it slow & careful, than fast and reckless.
mircea_popescu: ya
mod6: building up tons of technical debt that I (or someone) has to fix eventually anyway.
mod6: let's fast-forward for a minute and pretend that your solution is implemented.
mod6: and the makefiles are complete.
mircea_popescu: ok
mod6: this really leaves one last question that has to be thought through before we move on; Do we place the makefiles into trb's tree, or do we place them in their own tree? I've thought about this quite a bit. And there are tradeoffs to both.
mircea_popescu: it seems to me they should be in trb tree. which tradeoffs do you see ?
mod6: The one staring me in the face is this: If we place them in trb's tree, we'll be adding vpatch after vpatch to the source base to update the makefiles as they require to be updated. Having them in their own tree could elimiate cruft in trb.
mod6: The thing is, they /are/ really a part of trb itself.
mircea_popescu: this isn't properly called cruft tho.
mod6: true, not actual cruft no, just changes.
mircea_popescu: if item x, whatever it may be, can only be used to do Y then it belongs in Y's tree
mircea_popescu: 1 thing, 1 tree.
mod6: I started there for sure. Once I actually did this, it works, no problem with that. Was just trying to think, "what will the tree look like in 10 years, 20 years?"
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-14#1502685 << what has mircea_popescu been smoking?? there is no qt in trb ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-14 02:06 mircea_popescu: (i'm not saying you're making a mess, i'm just saying - we're stuck with all this grandfathered in bullshit, such as boost, openssh, who the fuck knows what else even. qt ffs.)
mod6: Anyway, got some time to mull it over. :]
mircea_popescu: eventually people will build management trees on top of this. much like phf's "make deedbot lines print out gray".
asciilifeform: the deps are strictly: 1) gcc 2) some libc (musl works ok) 3) boost 4) openssl 5) bdb.
mod6: I tend to agree, overall though. It should belong with trb.
mircea_popescu: "make makefile changes print out blue" or w/e
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform just sayin'!
mircea_popescu: at some point, there actually was, iirc
mircea_popescu: or was it the xwidgets w/e that thing is called ?
asciilifeform: before the great cleansing
mircea_popescu: i was making a point omaigerd.
asciilifeform: my point was that we actually have a handle on ~all~ the deps
asciilifeform: in the sense of enumeration.
mircea_popescu: yes, we do.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-14#1502694 << i'd make the downloader, if there must be one, a separate script. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-14 02:09 mod6: a person wants to build, presumably with the makefiles, but could be a build script... they pass the builder a flag that says "get these deps for me automatically", at which time, it'll go and fetch the deed(s) and verify them, decode them, and place them in the correct place and continue building.
asciilifeform: sign that.
asciilifeform: this 'here are the turds' thing are not something that ought to become habit.
mircea_popescu: meh. becomes opaque.
mircea_popescu: "oh, it's the downloader".
mod6: i can see this both ways too. i still wrestle with the whole "V Mirror" thing too.
mod6: its the difference between "easy" and "manual".
asciilifeform: it was the 'sign tarballs of liquishit' thing that led me to http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1545
mircea_popescu: yeah well.
mod6: mechanically checked and verified, but something i wrestle with none the less.
mircea_popescu: look, we can't not sign the things - these asswipes KEEP CHANGING THEM
mircea_popescu: that's why i want them stored in deedbot and sealed up.
mod6: I do tend to favor that, as opposed to signing my own death warrant.
asciilifeform: pretty sure i signed a set of rotor dep hashes a while back.
asciilifeform: possibly even deedbotted - though i have not been able to turn up the link
mod6: As far as the "V Mirror" thing, that I know alf hates, I move forward on the basis that one doesn't have to use it, even though it is there. This may not be ideal, but it's bridge between both "easy" and "manual"
mod6: A compromise.
asciilifeform: there is a reason i dun like it
mircea_popescu: mod6 which v mirror thing is this ?
asciilifeform: my position is that the customary degree of automagic: 'auto-fetch latest widget from central repo!11' - is not something that ought to be kept.
mod6: Yes, you believe that one should read and verify these vpatches on their own, place them in by what they say, and who wrote them. Instead of getting a big ball of wax automatically.
asciilifeform: it is a psychologically-destructive habit
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform gotta cut the branches in the proper order lest you break your teeth.
mod6: I tend to agree with you -- but i believe that the entire thing reduces to a "downloader script" outside of V if I remove the mirrors part.
asciilifeform: and in many cases, in particular the one now contemplated, is wholly unnecessary: fetching the trb deps is a once-per-machine thing
asciilifeform: there is NO reason to download them on every build
asciilifeform: you do it when you buy a new disk. that's it.
mod6: So i feel like it's one or the other. People need a way to press one button and build -- not everyone is clued.
asciilifeform: and ideally, from ~your other disk~
asciilifeform: not from the net.
mircea_popescu: this is a point - script should prolly check for local cache first
asciilifeform: aha.
mircea_popescu: "we only need what wed don't have"
mod6: Yeah, the makefiles will do this. It'll check the "shit" folder and what not, and look. If there continue, if not, halt. UNLESS, the -go-get-the-shit flag is passed in the invocation.
mod6: Then it'll continue with Mr. P.'s perscription above.
mircea_popescu: works.
mod6: To me, this seems to satisfy the requirements we've been kicking around for a while.
mod6: asciilifeform: agreed?
mircea_popescu: yeah definite progress here.
mircea_popescu: the fence is quasi complete
asciilifeform: definitely improvement over 'calls curl on my box with no nic'
mod6: fair enough, Sir.
asciilifeform: also i have this notion that we already had this, in some draft version, and i lost it.
mod6: Thanks for both of your input this evening.
mircea_popescu: shoulda deedbotted it
mircea_popescu: since you're too poor to have blog
mircea_popescu: :D
asciilifeform: l0l aha
mod6: asciilifeform: i believe that perhaps your stator script did something of the like.
mod6: or rotor? i'd have to look.
asciilifeform: nah, it just expected them to be there
asciilifeform: i never had auto-loader of anything iirc.
mod6: oh thats right, it just expected you to do this manually. which i automated.
mod6: got it.
mod6: 'tis been a while.
mod6: Anyway, this is great! I aught to write this up and put this into the ticket notes.
mircea_popescu: *thumbsup*
mod6: %h
tb0t: <%a|%add> <project> <code> "<subject>" "<notes>" [ante] | <%e|%edit> <project> <id> <code> "<subject>" "<notes>" [ante] | <%r|%remove> <project> <id> | <%p|%print> <project> <id> | <%pp|%print_projects> | <%pc|%print_codes>
mod6: %p trb 12
tb0t: Project: trb, ID: 12, Type: F, Subject: Makefiles for building full orchastra, Antecedents: , Notes:
mod6: %e trb 12 F "Makefiles for building full orchastra" "http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-14#1502667" ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-14 01:58 mircea_popescu: mod6 did you check/sign the copies ?
mod6: %p trb 12
tb0t: Project: trb, ID: 12, Type: F, Subject: Makefiles for building full orchastra, Antecedents: , Notes:
mod6: dafaq
mod6: %p trb 12
tb0t: Project: trb, ID: 12, Type: F, Subject: Makefiles for building full orchastra, Antecedents: , Notes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-14#1502667
a111: Logged on 2016-07-14 01:58 mircea_popescu: mod6 did you check/sign the copies ?
mod6: weird. i'll have to look into that.
deedbot: [Qntra] Windows Print Spooler Vulnerability Spent 20 Years Unaddressed - http://qntra.net/2016/07/windows-print-spooler-vulnerability-spent-20-years-unaddressed/
deedbot: [» Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] Modernists: Fixing self-made problems since 1964. And before. - http://www.contravex.com/2016/07/13/modernists-fixing-self-made-problems-since-1964-and-before/
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-14#1502702 << only as imposed by resource constraints. If the deps don't make it through the process I'll be at the keyboard tomorrow and will help make it happen. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-14 02:11 mod6: trinque: is there a max length for deeds? (just curious about the above ^, some of these might be mightly large)
trinque: mp's gnupg made it through, was a couple megs
trinque: what's an order of magnitude or two ?!
trinque afk
deedbot: [» Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] KidPoker - http://www.contravex.com/2016/07/13/kidpoker/
shinohai: ;;later tell http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-14#1502771 <<< remember i told you i did a test rum where i replaced V's mirror w/ my localhost deps and it still builds as expected. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-14 02:37 mod6: As far as the "V Mirror" thing, that I know alf hates, I move forward on the basis that one doesn't have to use it, even though it is there. This may not be ideal, but it's bridge between both "easy" and "manual"
gribble: Error: That is an invalid IRC nick. Please check your input.
shinohai: ;;later tell mod6 http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-14#1502771 <<< remember i told you i did a test rum where i replaced V's mirror w/ my localhost deps and it still builds as expected. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-14 02:37 mod6: As far as the "V Mirror" thing, that I know alf hates, I move forward on the basis that one doesn't have to use it, even though it is there. This may not be ideal, but it's bridge between both "easy" and "manual"
gribble: The operation succeeded.
shinohai: gm #trilema, sorry 4 spam
mircea_popescu: https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.freenode.net/trilema << for the record, kiwiirc seems much better solution than freenode's webchat. we should prolly switch to using this as web-side connection.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo ^
shinohai: kiwi has sexy cli version that is easy on eyes.
mircea_popescu: freenode put in that pos google captcha at some point
deedbot: [» Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] The security implications of Pokemon Go. - http://www.contravex.com/2016/07/14/the-security-implications-of-pokemon-go/
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: there's no captcha for the kiwiirc webchat thing only if your ip request is quite unique etc. if you e.g. go from tor (*ducks*) then you get presented with the lovely cloudflare captcha where you have to solve shit for multiple times until you pass. but at least no default captcha i guess
Framedragger: ah, actually freenode blocks connection eventually anyway since tor node in dnsbl and whatnot, so that's not a good argument anyway i guess
shinohai: freenode make you use the dreaded sasl connection for tor
Framedragger: kiwiirc is pretty, yeah!
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I've never used it, but ok
BingoBoingo: qntra about and contact pages changed over
shinohai: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-14#1502851 <<< hey looks good ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-14 13:48 BingoBoingo: qntra about and contact pages changed over
mircea_popescu: Framedragger honestly, that it supports tor seems to me a counter argument to using anything.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo cool.
BingoBoingo: brb, gotta get bar and chain oil
deedbot: [Trilema] It is a "no brainer"! - http://trilema.com/2016/it-is-a-no-brainer/
mircea_popescu: and in other artist's studio news, http://67.media.tumblr.com/ff0632038cc637b901f130fc624d758f/tumblr_n7ai7iixeM1r2sy0fo1_500.gif
asciilifeform: l0ltr0n
mircea_popescu: no it's totally how it goes!
mircea_popescu: ask anyone from the art school freshman class.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-14#1502841 << what was wrong with the old chat ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-14 13:04 mircea_popescu: https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.freenode.net/trilema << for the record, kiwiirc seems much better solution than freenode's webchat. we should prolly switch to using this as web-side connection.
mircea_popescu: google captcha.
asciilifeform: new one has no such ?
mircea_popescu: not that i've seen.
asciilifeform: also chat thing is a bunch of js, what's to keep us from hosting same, sans captcha etc. ?
mircea_popescu: ~nothing.
mircea_popescu: if anyone wants the project, can be (probably SHOULD be) implemented as pure html, just a form.
mircea_popescu: person wants to update the page, they have buttons just like anyone else.
asciilifeform: how would you implement irc client in
asciilifeform: 'pure html' ?
mircea_popescu: the chat line is a submit form, goes to chat bot.
mircea_popescu: the rest is a static page.
asciilifeform: so all connections happen on server side ?
mircea_popescu: reloads on browser reload.
mircea_popescu: yes
asciilifeform: fleanode will ban it.
shinohai: this looks rich http://archive.is/Q260I
mircea_popescu: nope.
trilema-webchat: my client #62 says : "hi folks how are you"
trilema-webchat: my client #17 says : "i am the real dao attacker"
asciilifeform: they'll ban the ip, and come up with some idiot excuse
asciilifeform: or just silently drop packets etc.
mircea_popescu: what sense does what you're saying make ?
asciilifeform: the same sense the behaviour of my trb node's upstream makes.
mircea_popescu: yes but it is verboten to engineer on the basis of nonsense.
mircea_popescu: you may not make predictions on the basis of not understood behaviour!
asciilifeform: this is like forbidding ship builder to consider water.
mircea_popescu: ahahaha
asciilifeform: or spacecraft - vacuum.
mircea_popescu: no, it is forbiding him to consider REMOTE CONTROLLED water.
mircea_popescu: ie, "personalized waves"
asciilifeform: and a depth charge is...?
mircea_popescu: note that irrespective of the merits of the personalized waves theory, this forbidance is nevertheless productive.
mircea_popescu: it makes the shipwright a shipwright rather than a strange sort of shaman.
asciilifeform: at any rate, the web message box is a useful thing, and in fact the only way for heathens to talk into gossipd transmitter in the future.
asciilifeform: so it will have to happen.
mircea_popescu: yeah. dunno who'd be looking for something like that to do, lessee...
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes ?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes how about running a bot ?
mircea_popescu: ha!
ben_vulpes: hm?
ben_vulpes: oh
ben_vulpes reads thread
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes may be entertained to learn that asciilifeform finally has cnc machine.
asciilifeform: ancient thing, needs new steppers, but otherwise clean.
asciilifeform: even came with isa (yes) card for dos (yes) box to drive the old steppers (dead)
trinque: asciilifeform: neat, have a particular project you're going to mill?
asciilifeform: trinque: a number of back-burner items.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: entertained and excited!
ben_vulpes: trinque: did you ever deed deedbot's source?
trinque: nope
trinque: not opposed but haven't
trinque: lemme work on cleaving the commands from the botstuff and then I can give ya the sauce if you want it
trinque: er actually I posted an older version at some point didn't I?
ben_vulpes has a fuzzy memory, is on the road though and not disposed to dig it up
trinque: old anyway, I'll let ya know when, and it'll be in the form of a signed vpatch
ben_vulpes: trinque: lowers the energy barrier for me to do the thing mircea_popescu and asciilifeform were talking about
ben_vulpes not particularly disposed to write an irc bot either
asciilifeform: iirc he posted it a while ago
asciilifeform: as a paste
asciilifeform: but i have nfi how many bugs ago it was.
ben_vulpes: i probably have it on disk somewhere
ben_vulpes: but yes, old.
Apocalyptic: would anyone here be interested in https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1545613 ?
deedbot: [Daniel P. Barron] Who saw this wonder? - http://danielpbarron.com/2016/who-saw-this-wonder/
asciilifeform: Apocalyptic: 'Updated the price to 100 USD. It's really not a complicated task, everything is outlined in the paper. An average C++ programmer knowing operator overloading should be able to do it in 2-3 hours.' << ahahahahaha
asciilifeform falls down.
jurov: i'm wondering how this is ever a $100 project, too
Apocalyptic: asciilifeform: well ok I may have underestimated the time
ben_vulpes: why do you want this, Apocalyptic ?
asciilifeform: Apocalyptic: depending on whether you want to implement a useful sat-solver, it could easily take years.
Apocalyptic: asciilifeform: I don't want a solver
Apocalyptic: I just want the problem as a CNF file
asciilifeform: Apocalyptic: i assume you read the original 'satcoin' paper ?
asciilifeform: $s satcoin
a111: 19 results for "satcoin", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=satcoin
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2013-11-04#368163 << thread. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2013-11-04 16:00 asciilifeform: satcoin: http://jheusser.github.io/2013/02/03/satcoin.html
Apocalyptic: asciilifeform: oh, interesting
Apocalyptic: ben_vulpes: fun
asciilifeform: Apocalyptic: the idea's been kicking around for a long time.
Apocalyptic: jurov: well i'm all ears as to why it isn't
Apocalyptic: asciilifeform: I assure you I don't plan to apply this to bitcoin mining, even though It did cross my mind to just try how it would fare in comparison
asciilifeform: it is the obvious application, along with pw cracking
Apocalyptic: indeed
jurov: Apocalyptic: have you actually read that pdf?
Apocalyptic: jurov: the one I linked in that post ? yes
jurov: to cite: "We tried several standard approaches for computing the cnf equivalent of the formula H, but all of them failed even for relatively small message lengths"
jurov: which is exactly the task what you want to be doen for $100, I understand?
Apocalyptic: jurov: they managed to do it eventually
Apocalyptic: see the paragraph I'm referring to, and they even posted benchmark results as graph for collision resistance and preimage problems
Apocalyptic: so I guess they had something running and didn't pull them out of their ass
asciilifeform: Apocalyptic: you linked a very different paper! about md5
asciilifeform: or is that the one you want cnf for
Apocalyptic: asciilifeform: the approach is hash-agnostic
Apocalyptic: if you have a prog to build the cnf for md5, you can build it for any similarly based hash function
jurov: did this jovanovic actually publish it?
Apocalyptic: publish what ?
Apocalyptic: I should maybe mention that I actually mailed these scientists, and they replied!
Apocalyptic: Saying they no longer have the code, as it's been 10 years
jurov: operator overloading will get you some list "operator X was called on some values Y,Z, result is R" at best
jurov: but that is easy. producing a code to correctly convert that to cnf is the problem
Apocalyptic: from the satcoin pape: "The implementation of the above program generates a large CNF formula with about 250'000 variables and 850'000 clauses." I wonder how much lower these numbers would be for a single iteration of sha256
Apocalyptic: jurov: afaik that part is explained in the paper too
asciilifeform: Apocalyptic: quite likely, higher.
trinque caught up on logs
trinque: ben_vulpes: yeah, I'll get you bot source soon
trinque: ben_vulpes: you'll be happy to know the thing both writes messages to a table and reads messages to send from an outbound table
trinque: so the chat page will involve perhaps 1 select, 1 insert
ben_vulpes: that *does* sound nifty.
ben_vulpes: hoho
Apocalyptic: asciilifeform: higher number of variables and clauses ? how does that even make sense ?
ben_vulpes: trinque: no rush, i've got other irons in the fire that still need pounding.
asciilifeform: Apocalyptic: sha2 has more moving parts, neh ?
trinque: ben_vulpes: yeh I want to make it tidy enough to share
ben_vulpes: subject only of pounding: https://www.amazon.com/Pokebutt-Go-Pounded-Em-All-ebook/dp/B01IAGH4VI/
ben_vulpes: chuck tingle makes me want to write an erotica shannonizer
Apocalyptic: asciilifeform: the figure is for sha256(sha256())
ben_vulpes: use sales as feedback
Apocalyptic: and i'm comparing to a single iteration of sha256()... so less moving parts
asciilifeform: then possibly
asciilifeform: but my advice, before you 'won't somebody do this for $100' to try it yourself
asciilifeform: and see if it's an hour's of undergrad work, or not.
Apocalyptic: asciilifeform: actually reading the satcoin link you provided I don't think it's a worthy endeavour to explore anymore
Apocalyptic: as for try it yourself, I believe my time is better spent elsewhere
Apocalyptic: maybe it could be done for a heavily round-reduced sha2
jurov: it certainly has been done. and surely they converted the algorithm by hand, instead of crude C++ hacking.
Apocalyptic: for the lulz, the Angell guy that signed up sent me, I kid you not, a copy/pasted code of a public github repo which consisted of a SAT-solver that doesn't even build
asciilifeform: big fat surprise - you pretend to pay, folks pretend to work.
Apocalyptic: scrapped the headers/copyrights from the files, and ad "using namespace Apocalyptic;", r, rewriting half of the prototype functions with my nick
asciilifeform: this is not a $100 job, nor a job for forum-dwelling pond scum
Apocalyptic: asciilifeform: I figured
deedbot: [Qntra] Mark Karpelès Released on Bail - http://qntra.net/2016/07/mark-karpeles-released-on-bail/
asciilifeform: http://ktla.com/2016/06/20/pennsylvania-man-impregnated-girl-gifted-to-him-when-she-was-14-criminal-complaint << lel, harem usa-style
asciilifeform: 'In a related case, authorities nearly 100 miles away in Lancaster County arrested the parents of the 18-year-old, with police saying the couple had “gifted” their daughter to Kaplan for helping them out of financial difficulties. She was 14 when her first child was conceived, the criminal complaint said.'
jurov: https://thefreeonline.wordpress.com/2016/07/11/berliners-defy-massive-siege-by-police-defending-rigaer-94-and-autonomous-revolution-from-market-gentrification/ meanwhile in berlin
asciilifeform: jurov: i am failing to discern what the protest was against
asciilifeform: from linked article
jurov: squatters vs. police
asciilifeform: ah
asciilifeform: in other nyooz from earlier rag, u.s. fbi gives up on finding the famous cooper: http://ktla.com/2016/07/12/d-b-cooper-45-years-after-infamous-skyjacking-fbi-closes-case-on-200000-unsolved-mystery
asciilifeform: (fella who held a plane for ransom in '71, and jumped from parachute)
BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 420734 | Current Difficulty: 2.133989253313239E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 421343 | Next Difficulty In: 609 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 11 hours, 28 minutes, and 14 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 661.82, vol: 2903.22443424 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 649.74, vol: 5259.33044 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 660.94, vol: 20850.12588235 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 626.0, vol: 0.03043283 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 659.715056, vol: 25880.81880000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 661.45, vol: 1115.81782495 | Volume-weighted last average: 659.378042634
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all --currency gbp
gribble: Bitstamp BTCGBP last: 496.298818, vol: 2903.22443424 | BTC-E BTCGBP last: 487.240026, vol: 5259.33044 | CampBX BTCGBP last: 469.4374, vol: 0.03043283 | BTCChina BTCGBP last: 498.31418, vol: 25880.81880000 | Kraken BTCGBP last: 505.0, vol: 82.78044979 | Volume-weighted last average: 496.452234169
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-14#1502928 << the expression is "this is easy if you know what you're doing". rather typical for web "frelancing" crud. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-14 17:52 asciilifeform: Apocalyptic: 'Updated the price to 100 USD. It's really not a complicated task, everything is outlined in the paper. An average C++ programmer knowing operator overloading should be able to do it in 2-3 hours.' << ahahahahaha
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-14#1502931 << if in the future you manage to not overestimate tardstalk.org i'll be ever so grateful to you. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-14 17:53 Apocalyptic: asciilifeform: well ok I may have underestimated the time
mircea_popescu: $rated Apocalyptic
deedbot: mircea_popescu rated Apocalyptic 2 at 2014/10/31 17:01:32 << ex-x-bt.com
mircea_popescu: $rate Apocalyptic -1 ex tmsr, currently tardstalk. apparently sense sometimes fails to take.
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/0cda5120-2ee0-4e87-8b6b-2facad54a624/
mircea_popescu: $v 51B4D0A4E9B9E4963AFD3063A5F7DD49A3D71C6F6DC7AF3A0C98539A02CE468E
deedbot: mircea_popescu updated rating of Apocalyptic from 2 to -1 << ex tmsr, currently tardstalk. apparently sense sometimes fails to take.
Apocalyptic: mircea_popescu: hey, indeed I tremendously overestimated tardstalk
mircea_popescu: happens.
Apocalyptic: but hey it was been educational, at least I know I won't ever be going there to get work done
mircea_popescu: or here.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-14#1502997 << how much of this is genuine amish weird and how much of this is cheap sensationalism pulled out of the ass by soviet state in its fight to flatten any curl of independence in its perceived domains is probably never getting established. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-14 19:22 asciilifeform: 'In a related case, authorities nearly 100 miles away in Lancaster County arrested the parents of the 18-year-old, with police saying the couple had “gifted” their daughter to Kaplan for helping them out of financial difficulties. She was 14 when her first child was conceived, the criminal complaint said.'
Apocalyptic: funny how this experience makes me persona non grata
shinohai: tardstalk looks like Filipinos came in and took a giant sig-spam shit everywhere.
shinohai: Can't find anything there.
mircea_popescu: well... because they did.
Apocalyptic: shinohai: can't agree more
Apocalyptic: I haven't been there in ages, most posts are pure non-sense to increase post counts for signature campaigns
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic you can plead ignorance all you want. lalala check me out, i'm going to pretend like this doesn't exist and here's tardstalk, seriously. then if you get whacked for it play the victim ? get fucked already, this isn't how it's played.
mircea_popescu: now stfu before i feel the need to also silence your dumb ass.
Apocalyptic: mircea_popescu: I'm not pleading ignorance
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-14#1502999 << "this place should not be used by group X but by group Y according to the who-has-more-euros() function results" "fuck you, you just print the euros, they don't reflect any substantive relation". ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-14 19:24 asciilifeform: jurov: i am failing to discern what the protest was against
mircea_popescu: that's the protest.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: suddenly it makes sense. we have these here.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-14#1503025 << devil knows! hence link. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-14 20:21 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-14#1502997 << how much of this is genuine amish weird and how much of this is cheap sensationalism pulled out of the ass by soviet state in its fight to flatten any curl of independence in its perceived domains is probably never getting established.
mircea_popescu: i can't even say i don't sympathise with the hipsters.
mircea_popescu: they do have a point, euros can stand as no basis for resource allocation ; and the euro legal system has absolutely no business intervening in this sort of dispute.
mircea_popescu: their lot is abstract nonsense, let them pass judgement on the pressing matter of how many angles fit on a pinhead and such.
asciilifeform: so how to settle dispute? gladiators ?
mircea_popescu: any other way.
mircea_popescu: currently, apparently, yes. gladiators.
asciilifeform: the money printin' folk can print a truckload, hire moar gladiator.
asciilifeform: problem is not thus solved.
mircea_popescu: "hire"
mircea_popescu: the other side can deficit spend JUST as well.
mircea_popescu: it's all ideological motivated, in the same way to the exact same end.
asciilifeform: what will it spend? old candy wrappers ?
mircea_popescu: words.
mircea_popescu: euro fishwrapping paper buys you soda ; candy wrappers buy you cunt. seems the other side's better backed actually.,
asciilifeform: 'The ‘filthy anti-system’ extremists in the neighbourhood are defending their coop culture, free schools and kindergartens, their anti property speculation, shared living experiments, anti patriarchy, music, art, bar and cafe collectives, refugee welcome initiatives, anti war and climate saving politics and degrowth movements……. etc'
mircea_popescu: aha.
mircea_popescu: strictly boils down to "easy cunt"
mircea_popescu: and yes, i readily agree with you and in effigy with "sensible people" of a generation that died with chet - that all this is barbaric nonsense, and wtf is wrong with people!
mircea_popescu: socialism. it ruined the currency, now there's no way to avoid societal disorder. so yes, gladiators.
asciilifeform: the sad part is that they're one-armed gladiators. e.g., burning police cars, rather than shooting politicians or latifundistas etc
mircea_popescu: why would you expect they'd do anything but burning police cars ?
asciilifeform: precisely, i wouldn't expect.
mircea_popescu: they, contrary to the "anti patriarchy" verbiage, are very deeply male. will attach responsibility (correctly) to the closest link, entire. rather than womanly go around looking for "implications"
mircea_popescu: you're too civilised for your own good, here.
asciilifeform: wake me up when police run out of cars, to burn.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no no. not "why would you expect them to be smart". "why would you expect smart people to do the dumb thing"
mircea_popescu: that's entirely an irrelevant point.
asciilifeform: stomping individual ants is dumb.
mircea_popescu: to you.
asciilifeform: anthill can birth them faster than you can stomp.
mircea_popescu: than YOU can stomp.
asciilifeform: than anybody but a million-man army could stomp.
trinque: so then.
mircea_popescu: this is a million man army.
asciilifeform: armies shoot.
mircea_popescu: armies win.
mircea_popescu: not the form, you sickly infected soul you. NOT THE FORM.
asciilifeform: hooligans sum to 0, whether jacqueries in 1100 or window-busting 'antifa' reds now.
mircea_popescu: this statement has nothing to do with reality and no power over it. all it does is, it identifies the speaker. identifies him as a roman.
mircea_popescu: specifically important word, and do consider
mircea_popescu: $google mai bine huligan decit activist
deedbot: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golaniad << Golaniad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkI42zPuH7w << Imnul golanilor | http://cuvintecelebre.ro/mai-bine-mort-decat-comunist/ << Mai bine mort, decât... Imnul Golanilor, citat de Cristian Pațurcă
asciilifeform: looks like a maidanism/tiananmenism, colourful revolution attempt ?
mircea_popescu: relatively complicated.
mircea_popescu: but, whatever the historical underlying, the point stands. your chocie is hooligan or aparatchick, pick.
mircea_popescu: aparat-CHICK, funnily enough. may be the one time translation improves the text.
asciilifeform: well from pov of apparat, the opposition is naturally 'dirty hooligan'
mircea_popescu: and vice-versa.
asciilifeform: but i was speaking of the disorganization/aimlessness/anomie
mircea_popescu: this is a matter of you not a matter of it. both order and disorder are subjective reactions.
mircea_popescu: there's no such thing as "order" in physical reality.
asciilifeform: consider spanish civil war
mircea_popescu: alright
asciilifeform: why republicans lost ?
mircea_popescu: who knows these things, and what's to lose.
asciilifeform: it isn't as if it were a nuke war, we have plenty of evidence re why
mircea_popescu: you don't think nsa lost, or usg lost, or any of the imperial heavenly legions ever lost.
mircea_popescu: why should the republicans have lost ?
asciilifeform: lost - spain, their skins, etc. lost it all.
mircea_popescu: heh. everyone eventually loses his skin. what, hruschev lost ?
mircea_popescu: sure, he's dead.
asciilifeform straps on gas mask
mircea_popescu: $google eugene ionesco "golan academician"
deedbot: No results.
mircea_popescu: oobviously.
asciilifeform: soviet sphere quite certainly did not fall because su (or ro, or any) police ran out of cars to burn. but because gorbachev wanted his flat in manhattan.
asciilifeform: beast was devoured by much larger, stronger beast, and not by some mythical 'victory of the beoble'
asciilifeform: we do not yet have a modern example of roman-style collapse to work with.
asciilifeform: possibly rhodesia ?
shinohai: ;;later tell BingoBoingo http://ix.io/13P6
gribble: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: ty
phf: $s "megaprocessor"
a111: 3 results for "\"megaprocessor\"", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22megaprocessor%22
deedbot: [Daniel P. Barron] Play To Lose - http://danielpbarron.com/2016/play-to-lose/
BingoBoingo: Oh apparently truck > Assault rifle!
trinque: inb4 snackbar
mats: aloha!
shinohai: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 659.22, vol: 2605.84355433 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 645.6, vol: 5338.74366 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 660.08, vol: 21362.55703792 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 626.0, vol: 0.03043283 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 657.937808, vol: 26130.99380000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 662.773, vol: 1161.41813037 | Volume-weighted last average: 657.740813699
deedbot: [Qntra] Bastille Day Truck Attack In Nice, France - http://qntra.net/2016/07/bastille-day-truck-attack-in-nice-france/
ben_vulpes: danielpbarron: doesn't /affect/ gameplay
danielpbarron: fxt, ty
ben_vulpes: interesting gedankenexperiment
ben_vulpes: (yw)
mod6: werd up
mod6: <shinohai> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-14#1502771 <<< remember i told you i did a test rum where i replaced V's mirror w/ mlocalhost deps and it still builds as expected. << oh yeah, forgot about that! ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-14 02:37 mod6: As far as the "V Mirror" thing, that I know alf hates, I move forward on the basis that one doesn't have to use it, even though it is there. This may not be ideal, but it's bridge between both "easy" and "manual"
trinque: BingoBoingo: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/14/truck-crashes-into-crowd-at-bastille-day-celebrations-in-nice2/ << 73 reported here
BingoBoingo: trinque: Updated
trinque: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/14/91-year-old-woman-fills-in-crossword-at-museum---only-to-discove/ << in other newsworthy
trinque: lol
mod6: haha