mats: but does s.nsa live or die? this is the question burning in my chest
a111: Logged on 2016-04-19 21:54 mircea_popescu: mno. at the rate we're going s.nsa is publishing a closure statement early may.
ben_vulpes: phuctor is phucking nao, mircea_popescu sounds pleased or at least entertained, so i imagine it's bought a stay from the divestment for a quarter...
shinohai: ^ Doesn't look too promising BingoBoingo, I my redact that and call bullshit
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Not phucking yet, just phorplay getting hard for phucking
a111: Logged on 2016-04-24 21:59 mircea_popescu: and since we're on it... tachanka... tanklet.
mircea_popescu: jus' one of the rare cases where english diminutive obviously wurx
mats: i didn't learn anything from the s.bbet story, no
mats: hoped to sign on one day, to contribute to either s.nsa
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so you're telling me that there's no possible configuration, context or circumstance in which you'd rather fuck girl in ass, ever, period.
mircea_popescu: suppose in some way you end up in possession of a world-renowned female for ther buttlove skills.
mircea_popescu: and if you didn't play the harp just so, could very well end up fulfilling that motor's lawnmowing destiny.
mircea_popescu: (computing engineering and airplane engineer have a lot in common - the fully visible thing is a security and maintenance thing. just like bash.)
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: quite quite, and i loled at phoreplay
ben_vulpes: air traffic control on the scale of car-economy would be an utter nightmare
ben_vulpes: consider relative velocities and arc seconds involved tho
ben_vulpes: you just proposed essentially every derp flying.
ben_vulpes: dentists at least, which is every derp in my book.
ben_vulpes: falling derps is not the problem, it's collisions unavoidable due to relative speeds and human inability to a) perceive and b) react in time
ben_vulpes: individuals can stay up for quite some time, but if you have any concentration of them taking off at 7a to get to work, there's your density-close-to-the-ground problem
☟︎ ben_vulpes: "oh but they would all live in the country with nobody around and each with their own runway!"
a111: Logged on 2016-04-24 22:37 mircea_popescu: yeah, minus the industry. they only kept the "jobs", which anyone has and as best as anyone can discern, consist entirely of paychecks.
a111: Logged on 2016-04-25 02:46 asciilifeform: (if the things were reasonably common, the order-of-magnitude diff b/w e.g., ohio and d.c. would not appear reasonable even to idiot)
a111: Logged on 2016-04-25 02:47 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: much of the complexity comes from the paucity of airport
mircea_popescu: bus exists, fails to make all restaurants cost the same
mircea_popescu: if plane were like bus, it would STILL fail to make all house cost the same.
mircea_popescu: so the phrasing would change. would the phraseology change please you ?
mircea_popescu: no "because" a mother offers is EVER worth the shit it's written in.
ben_vulpes: lanes are temporal in asciilifeform plane new world
ben_vulpes: yes ofc points in 3space nigh impossible to get close to each other
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know who loved the 40s more than usians ? argentines.
mircea_popescu: you know why ? for the same reason, let's call it the illinois-indiana reason\
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: and people flew where in 40s?
ben_vulpes: other places where one person was landing uncontrolledly at a time?
ben_vulpes: yeah dood wtf i'm not saying megaport is only solution
ben_vulpes: only that "planes for dentists" is just as panglossian
a111: Logged on 2016-04-25 02:54 ben_vulpes: individuals can stay up for quite some time, but if you have any concentration of them taking off at 7a to get to work, there's your density-close-to-the-ground problem
ben_vulpes: because if there are highly stable craft the thing approaches golf
ben_vulpes: also dentists fly gliders all the time wtf
ben_vulpes: jesus you really need this spelled out?
ben_vulpes: beause dentist is half sane, picks good market, commutes by plane to place
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> from mythical cornfield runway << Quite a few around here
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: in the conversations context ofc, i know they exist and are used by self-dusting farmers
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Also transportation. How else do people in the know go between southern, middle, and western illinois?
ben_vulpes: yes, plenty, i have been to one recently.
ben_vulpes: if you get your way with hauschwitz it should be academic, barring grocery trips
ben_vulpes: "west coast! covered wagons, right? have they wired portland for AC yet?"
ben_vulpes: could not possibly, lizard hitler would never allow.
mircea_popescu: you two sound distinctly like retired dentists in florida retirement home.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: was lucky enough to destroy the things he grew up hating
ben_vulpes: can lob mortars from dirigible for weeks
mircea_popescu: so are you saying this problem is purely political and technology, be it planes or crochet, won't fix it ?!
ben_vulpes: wife should be well occupied with children and drive-by-rodgerings, and if children are a burden american should have neither c nor w
mircea_popescu: there is such a thing as genuine neglect. not that i'm proposing it has bearing.
mod6: Hey all, so I wanted to not only make a list of objectives as we discussed around the 15th, I wanted to also design a very simple ticket system so we can not only have tickets, but perhaps a roadmap with dependencies. I.e. in the way that you have a larger ticket with dependent subtickets. This could help round out a road map to larger 'sagas' like for this july, and 'ideal bitcoin'.
mod6: this code is rough, but its my first working deal.
mod6: asciilifeform: yeah, i'm getting there. I'll try to add that soon.
mod6: this code can be just dropped into say, 't.pl' then `chmod +x t.pl` then `./t.pl tickets.txt`
mircea_popescu: mod6 could this a) be piped to a www page on foundation site b) have a way to ref from here ?
mod6: then it'll print out the full list of tickets. if you run `./t.pl` it'll print out the other available commands. such as "add" "rm" or "edit", inwhich a person can do that, change their own list, sign it, and send it to the ML or whatever for review.
mod6: mircea_popescu: this has crossed my mind, haven't yet thought on it enough to implement anything as of yet. but yeah, something that would be coool --
mod6: was thinking about collaborating somehow with deedbot to make it update the new wiki somehow.
mircea_popescu: mod6 perl can just dump html pages neh ? run it in a subdir and that's that
mod6: yeah, this is true. just need to marshall it around to somewhere and volla.
mod6: and dot files for svg graphs, but if you want to run this, you need "Graph::Easy" installed. It won't effect you if you don't hvae this installed, unless you try to run the graphing tools - just like V.
mircea_popescu: except if you spew it on www, everyone can see the svgs
mod6: Yes Sir. Sounds like a decent plan there.
mod6: I'm gonna keep putting some more thigns in there, it's just something I've been playing with since like Friday.
mod6: But, just wanted to give everyone a first look at what is possible here. Please let me know if there is problems or glaring oversights, etc. Thanks in advance.
mod6: Thanks mircea_popescu! Salud!
mod6: On a more philosophical level, I did leave off the idea of ticket 'assignment', simply because I didn't want contributors to not think about a ticket just because their name/keyid isn't assigned to the ticket.
mod6: I'm not sure if that was the correct approach, but it "felt right" when I was making that choice.
mod6: Ok, so hopefully will have a much prettier version of this around the end of the month.
mod6: Hahaha, some optimism in there :]
mod6: oh weird. i must have broke something.
mircea_popescu: in other news lovecraft is perhaps the most bombastically incompetent and pompously ungifted literary critic i ever read.
mod6: oh ben_vulpes, just noticed something.
mod6: seems that wotpaste stripped out my "<STDIN>" statements.
mod6: maybe it thought it was an HTML thing
mod6: i see now, it's in the raw paste, just not the non-raw.
mod6: fwiw, i really like wotpaste tho. works great
jurov: mircea_popescu: mpex accepts orders but won't execute them. some are waiting over 12 hours
jurov: well..recently even eulora server works better than mpex
mircea_popescu: wait, eulora is some sort of low mark of server working or something ?
deedbot: deedbot- voiced for 30 minutes.
phf: ah the crafty double dis
mircea_popescu: incidentally, i think i'm coming to an actually correct definition of trolling. trolling is the act of providing needed context separated from the message, in a place where the naive reader (who most needs it) is least likely to find or recognize it.
mircea_popescu: education being obviously the exact opposite of trolling.
jurov: yes eulora server was kinda low mark. then it improved
mircea_popescu: so i'm, holding a one pound bag of raisins, "industria argentina" of course,
mircea_popescu: when it decides to fucking split at the seam and now i have raisined kitchen floor ;/
mircea_popescu: this country is too fucking cheap to exist, yet if you talk to the inhabitants you'd think they all hail from the fucking oceanside beaches of southern california.
phf: i cary avoska to stores..
phf: make them cary avoskas to stores
phf: чтоб жизнь мёдом не казалась
mircea_popescu: [transylvanian "noa lasa" is this universal thing, like forget about it. not exactly same meaning, but anyway.]
mircea_popescu: mebbe. it's very metaphysically flat tho, like the world's all flat.
mircea_popescu: all the english versions are much too spirited, drop it, leave it, straight whiskey to its very mellow cider quality.
mircea_popescu: it's what a disinterested mark would politely say to an inept would-be chump manager. i guess the english speakers don't say anything.
trinque: back in a moment with the case-sensitivity fix
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: 2 by 2 connections.
deedbot: trinque rated BEN_vulPES 3 at 3623669040 << friend, gentleman, warrior
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: 0 by 0 connections.
trinque: lol, it apparently doesn't do capital underscore!
diana_coman: mircea_popescu> it's what a disinterested mark would politely say to an inept would-be chump manager. i guess the english speakers don't say anything. <- not as directly, no. Possibly something like "it might work," lol
diana_coman: otherwise maybe "let it be" but it's still stronger
mircea_popescu: things the us lacks to survive the coming collapse : item #7, a workable language.
ben_vulpes: "this generation’s transformational companies (AirBNB, Slack, Snapchat, Uber, etc)" << muahaha
trinque: WHY THE UNICORN FINANCING MARKET JUST BECAME DANGEROUS…FOR ALL INVOLVED << sorry, cannot go on
ben_vulpes: "people began to imagine a world where...profits could come back in vogue"
pete_dushenski: sorry to be away so much of late, been swamped this spring. not that i mind, just not as much forum time atm.
a111: Logged on 2016-04-24 22:14 BingoBoingo: Yeah, Pete prolly would have archived the old bets by nao.
pete_dushenski: phf: loving the new search. think you could add a button or link back to the logs so i don't have to diddle the url every time ?
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2016-04-19 22:10 shinohai: ;;later tell mod6 both import and dumpprivkey work \o/
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: i don't think anyone's using kelvin versioning on trb
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes notice that the "whatsap" bullshit that laundered 2bn of facebook's "money" is not on the list. somehow.
mircea_popescu: apparently they're only transformational before someone buys them./
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: in my little refuge within a bubble within a refuge, we're just booming despite the oil glut
pete_dushenski: but to go back to the most recent logs, there's no direct link at the top of the page
pete_dushenski: sort of like how kako had permalinks at the top to wiki, stats, logs, search, etc.
mircea_popescu: ftr asciilifeform my current antispam arrangements work splendidly. i get maybe 2-3 items a day i have to look at, which is a-ok. 99.97% ish i never see.
a111: Logged on 2016-04-25 03:22 ben_vulpes: bamboocycleta!
pete_dushenski: it had no circuits to fiddle with, maybe parents didn't think you'd bite
mircea_popescu: o that's pretty good. how many skulls did you crush with your gas-mask based slingshot ?
mircea_popescu: and pete_dushenski has a point : how many girlies did you stuff with pairs of 'em and then made do squats ?
pete_dushenski just bought first pair of chinaballs. still getting used to jingles
pete_dushenski doesn't understand how anything can be shipped from china for $2.22 ~all-in~
pete_dushenski: actually, come to think of it, i think girl had these ballz, or similar, during pregnancy. big fan.
mircea_popescu: girls that don't play with the balls when young piss their pants when old.
pete_dushenski: she can probably attribute much of this training to no-tear v-pipe birth
mircea_popescu: tears aren't THAT common. especially in girls that actually look like you'd want to fuck 'em.
mircea_popescu: as opposed to whatever boyish bs they put on ftv these days.
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, i should prolly write up birth. anyone seen it ?
pete_dushenski: mya well those pencilish ones have kidz too afaik. if not by me.
pete_dushenski: how do stores like walgreens combat this ? by LOCKING DOWN SOAP like you would cigarettes or razor blades, apparently.
pete_dushenski: 'As a Walgreens cashier explains, “It’s easy to sell on the street. Everyone uses soap.”'
pete_dushenski: anyone here have experience physical rolling dice a lot ? wondering how many times you rolled a set of 5 before you have sufficient confidence in their fairness. obviously, there's no absolute answer to this inquest, just curious if anyone has bothered or if 'casino dice' are considered sufficient precaution.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: for the truly daft, what do you mean by 'debiasing' ?
danielpbarron: three dice rolls of any biased dice == 1 provably unbiased roll
danielpbarron: and you probably have to roll the same die 3 times as opposed to rolling 3 dice once, unless there's something i'm missing in all this
mircea_popescu: there's a mathematical solution to "what is the probability of x specific configuration come out of y random process of given probabilities"
jurov: is it even physically possible to make biased dice with, 50% less entropy output?
jurov: (that can't be detected by cursory inspection)
jurov: ideally its log2(6) = 2.58 bits
mircea_popescu: it's unclear to me exactly how not electronic they are.
jurov: say you fudge the throws badly and in the end get only 2 bits per throw
jurov: that's still pretty strong key after 100 throws
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform quest for "not electronic" interaction is a little lulzy to me thatsall
jurov: i just explained how i understood it?
jurov: and i am asking you how much bias do you usually estimate and why?
jurov: by what physical process?
jurov: if it's like 20% as i wrote above, then it's still fine, no?
mircea_popescu: still, one really dedicated could create glass dice and sharpen the edge by the same process used to make the few-hundre-atom thick blades they use to cut microscope samples with
jurov: you're welcome to make a specifically worn dice that produces only ~2 bits of entropy. i suspect that would be very hard.
jurov: oh i forgot to specify "it should be non-obvious"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is not entirely a virgin field. there is even a special tumbler for this process.
phf: it came up in the logs before
phf: actually, i'm misremembering. it's someone built a tumbler to test dice bias, your conclusion was that he's testing errors in his OCR
jurov: well, if someone generates their keys with pre-worn dice and tumbler supplied by enemy and strictly following instructions on the tumbler...
phf: strategic superiority through judicial application of wood chipper
phf: a dice rng is "defective design". it's all over the place, low tech solution right in the middle of high tech stack. can't make one at home, since bias. wouldn't really make key by hand either. any optimizations turn to logical "why not flip electrons instead". i've noticed the tendency though, friend told me that he's generating work passwords with dicewear
phf: i think it's collective unconsciousness response to ongoing diddled hardware revelations
mircea_popescu: rolling dice is a better source for "please enter your password" than... what, dreaming one up ?
phf: dd if=/dev/random|LANG=C tr -dc '_A-Z-a-z-0-9'|fold -w10|head -n5
jurov: phf are you 100% sure you did it right?
mircea_popescu: 0+7 records in 0+0 records out 0 bytes (0 B) copied, 13.2392 s, 0.0 kB/s
phf: perhaps reading from /dev/urandom will fix it on linux
phf: i do, but he doesn't see mine
phf: i make my tools myself, so script above works on my system, i have sufficient idea of its operation to put it to live munition test.
phf: but if the question is about other people, then there's a trust slice that is manifest on the system. the kind of person who trusts his os x, should also trust the password generator on it. kind of person who downloads random online apps by some criteria, would be able to apply same criteria to selecting a password generator/manager
mircea_popescu: phf fancy that - they also make their tools themselves.
mircea_popescu: moreover, i'd say 99% of the people making passwords by throwing dice don't have dd or | on the system, because they're stuck on winblowz.
mircea_popescu: there is nothing wrong with man carrying his water skin in plagued venice. "but where does the water in it come from"
phf: right, we're just approaching this from different direction
phf: from perspective of general education, it's better hygiene where there wasn't any before. i'm more questioning people who use diceware because they don't trust own /dev/random
mircea_popescu: sure, an argument could be brought that "hey, even blocking /random is faster than dice". maybe. then consider machines that do not have a rng at all, such as pogo. maybe they want pws too. etc.
mircea_popescu: discussion rapidly becomes a "why would i own a sliderule, i have my computor". well, some people own a slide rule.
mircea_popescu: recall that the strength of the wot comes specifically from there not being a standard of behaviour.
☟︎ phf: mircea_popescu: i don't have issue with people using slide rule. i'm reacting to people who are buying slide rules on ebay, because it's the cool retro computational device
mircea_popescu: hey, you buy sluts in e-bar because they're the juicy, pendulous titted fucktoys.
phf: hah, well, i'm saying diceware is ~soo~ last year
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know, for the male slave boi this is actually true ?
mircea_popescu: once mistress gets tired of taking off the chastity device now and again, there's this special electrified insert, stimulates teh prostate, instaorgasm and move on.
shinohai: Get cucked by a product originally designed for bulls. Neato.
mircea_popescu: smaller, obviously, and for that matter can be designed for urethral insertion.
mircea_popescu: i don't think tissue damage is a drawback for the practitioners.
mircea_popescu: on the contrary, would prolly be a selling point. "100 orgasms, then your genitals fall off"
mircea_popescu: cheaper for her to get a dildo than to turn you into one.
shinohai: asciilifeform: I can sub,it public key to phuctor or is down?
pete_dushenski: fueled by that killer dice debate, i'm off to the races gents. bon soir a tous!