▁▁▁▁▁▁▁⏐︎ 7008
mats: but does s.nsa live or die? this is the question burning in my chest
ben_vulpes: mats: re http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-19#1453901 ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-04-19 21:54 mircea_popescu: mno. at the rate we're going s.nsa is publishing a closure statement early may.
mats: yes
ben_vulpes: phuctor is phucking nao, mircea_popescu sounds pleased or at least entertained, so i imagine it's bought a stay from the divestment for a quarter...
shinohai: ;;later tell BingoBoingo http://ix.io/xxi
gribble: The operation succeeded.
shinohai: ^ Doesn't look too promising BingoBoingo, I my redact that and call bullshit
BingoBoingo: k
shinohai: *sigh*
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Not phucking yet, just phorplay getting hard for phucking
danielpbarron: lol
asciilifeform: mats et al: there are two s.nsa's. there is the mpex asset, which you were prolly asking about, and there is my actual work, which is to 0 extent actually enabled by the ~450 btc in the piggy, and will continue even if mircea_popescu one day drums me out of the chan
asciilifeform: mats: i cannot answer for the former, i have 0 control of it.
asciilifeform: mats: i assume you learned something from the bbet story.
asciilifeform: (it is no mega-seekrit that mircea_popescu and i disagree on 1,001 things, yet he keep inviting me places. for the time being at least.)
mircea_popescu: mats i'd expect it to live neh ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what do we disagree on anyway ?
asciilifeform: i fuhget.
asciilifeform: possibly, re which hole.
asciilifeform: i confess i prefer the front.
asciilifeform: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/2733B86097560BCE3C9963877120335071F0F9739CB8D0CEA29C6FF128D9713B << ahahahaha, sba.gov
asciilifeform: the poor unloved '3-letter'
mircea_popescu: wouldn't it depend on the manjka in question ?
asciilifeform: i've no use for the convex ones
asciilifeform: they can feed pirannhas ferallicare.
mircea_popescu: https://archive.is/pnkpx << in other unrelated lulws. web 2.0 invents its new, physics defying maffs!
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-24#1456909 << in point of fact not quite. really, dim. of тачка, wheelbarrow. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-04-24 21:59 mircea_popescu: and since we're on it... tachanka... tanklet.
asciilifeform: the 'tanklet' existed also! танкетка, tanquette, or what in english world is called 'midget tank'
mircea_popescu: jus' one of the rare cases where english diminutive obviously wurx
asciilifeform: as in the famous jp midget tankz
mats: i didn't learn anything from the s.bbet story, no
mats: hoped to sign on one day, to contribute to either s.nsa
asciilifeform: mats: that 'phriendship iz magick' or, in other words, you can't make the other kid give you the chicken
asciilifeform: nor ought to try
mircea_popescu: interesting aesop.
asciilifeform: it's a fable from the fables of mircea_popescuaesop
asciilifeform: somewhere in recent trilema article.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so you're telling me that there's no possible configuration, context or circumstance in which you'd rather fuck girl in ass, ever, period.
asciilifeform: not that i can presently think of.
mircea_popescu: what if she's really good at it ?
asciilifeform: 'drill own hole' almost comes ahead.
mircea_popescu: suppose in some way you end up in possession of a world-renowned female for ther buttlove skills.
asciilifeform: then.
mircea_popescu: this differing is quite unsubstantial.
mircea_popescu: (anyone grinned at the ever, period pun ?)
mircea_popescu: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/sadmods << 1552
asciilifeform: creeps up by 1-2/min.
asciilifeform: pretty steady.
asciilifeform: in other 'news', http://imgur.com/4nqeK3A << in a museum (hands on right hand side are of pet). one of the machines on exhibit was gettable into ☟︎
asciilifeform: it was interesting, thing was really no more complicated than a motorbike
asciilifeform: whole thing was moved by steel cables that you could actually ~see~ and grab, right in the cockpit
asciilifeform: and could see all through fuselage (original, unmolested) all the way where they led into wing & tail.
asciilifeform: there were literally no hidden parts but for the motor, which was a very modest 80 hp thing
asciilifeform: i wonder if davout ever went up in a machine like this
mircea_popescu: and if you didn't play the harp just so, could very well end up fulfilling that motor's lawnmowing destiny.
asciilifeform: naturally!
mircea_popescu: (computing engineering and airplane engineer have a lot in common - the fully visible thing is a security and maintenance thing. just like bash.)
asciilifeform: i found the thing incredibly appealing.
mircea_popescu: and for this very reason no doubt.
asciilifeform: aha.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo would approve of the old wood'n'cardboard'n'tinfoil airplanes - no lardarse could go up in it
asciilifeform: nor could atrophied muscle steer it
asciilifeform: and, witness, pre-bureaucracy artifact - no radio in there
asciilifeform: i feel hardly any envy for the joe stack folks of today, who spend an hour filling out forms for every 2 flown
asciilifeform: and pay for petrol what its litrage in whiskey costs
asciilifeform: the 'ercoupe' thing in the background is interesting. i live not so far from where the old 'erco' factory was, where the things were made. it was, iirc, a plane with simplified controls and extremely stable dynamics, for lamers to fly. sold like hotcakes, until the bottom fell out of the market in '47
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: quite quite, and i loled at phoreplay
asciilifeform: for a while folks really thought 'plane was the next car'
asciilifeform: i still think that small planes were bureaucratically strangled to avoid threatening the real estate racket.
ben_vulpes: air traffic control on the scale of car-economy would be an utter nightmare
asciilifeform: (if the things were reasonably common, the order-of-magnitude diff b/w e.g., ohio and d.c. would not appear reasonable even to idiot) ☟︎
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: much of the complexity comes from the paucity of airport ☟︎
asciilifeform: ups the density.
ben_vulpes: granted
ben_vulpes: consider relative velocities and arc seconds involved tho
asciilifeform: ideal, obviously, is not 'every derp flies'
ben_vulpes: relative to car infrastructure
ben_vulpes: 0, 1, inf
ben_vulpes: you just proposed essentially every derp flying.
asciilifeform: nope.
ben_vulpes: dentists at least, which is every derp in my book.
asciilifeform: just the folks who can afford 80 hp flying. which ~ought~ to be a few %.
asciilifeform: in sane planet.
ben_vulpes: that is still a *lot* of atc.
ben_vulpes: again, arc-seconds and velocity.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i'm quite convinced that the difficulties of air traffic are artificial. ☟︎
asciilifeform: the 'corridors', for instance.
asciilifeform: utterly unnecessary.
asciilifeform: usg packs them into tiny space, then yes, clearly, usg control is 'necessary' to keep'em from colliding.
asciilifeform: classic self-licking icecream cone.
asciilifeform: consider,
asciilifeform: the 1920s-40s EXISTED
asciilifeform: and your grandparents - were not flattened by falling derps in their cardboard flyingcoffins.
asciilifeform: why do you suppose not ?
ben_vulpes: falling derps is not the problem, it's collisions unavoidable due to relative speeds and human inability to a) perceive and b) react in time
asciilifeform: collisions with what ?
asciilifeform: with the treeline at the runway ? let'em.
ben_vulpes: individuals can stay up for quite some time, but if you have any concentration of them taking off at 7a to get to work, there's your density-close-to-the-ground problem ☟︎
ben_vulpes: "oh but they would all live in the country with nobody around and each with their own runway!"
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: aha.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: there is quite enough space in the martian-desert states for this.
asciilifeform: run the numberz.
ben_vulpes: you have a bridge too, right?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the bridge is for sale in nyc
ben_vulpes: the shares though, you have some
asciilifeform: in brooklyn bridge?!
asciilifeform: lelz
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-24#1456960 << if the folks showing up to 'job where there is only paycheque' were taken off the board, there would be quite enough room even on motherfucking 'beltway' (infamously congested road circling washington) ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-04-24 22:37 mircea_popescu: yeah, minus the industry. they only kept the "jobs", which anyone has and as best as anyone can discern, consist entirely of paychecks.
asciilifeform: not even speaking of the air.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-25#1457107 << it would, yes. notice that even if the town has bus service, a TWO order of magnitude difference between what a meal costs appears reasonable even to idiots. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-04-25 02:46 asciilifeform: (if the things were reasonably common, the order-of-magnitude diff b/w e.g., ohio and d.c. would not appear reasonable even to idiot)
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-25#1457108 ~all , actually. pretty fucking hard to get two things to collide outside of the very narrow approach lanes ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-04-25 02:47 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: much of the complexity comes from the paucity of airport
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in usa you will generally not find respectable folkz in bus.
asciilifeform: back when i rode in buses, i was usually the only white face aboard.
mircea_popescu: so ?
mircea_popescu: bus exists, fails to make all restaurants cost the same
mircea_popescu: if plane were like bus, it would STILL fail to make all house cost the same.
asciilifeform: naturally hovel with 3 walls would < mega-castle
asciilifeform: but thread was re locations.
asciilifeform: as in, 'costs 10x because near xyz'
mircea_popescu: so the phrasing would change. would the phraseology change please you ?
asciilifeform: anything short of teleporter would naturally not abolish this, and petrol is quite dear, but still.
mircea_popescu: no "because" a mother offers is EVER worth the shit it's written in.
ben_vulpes: lanes are temporal in asciilifeform plane new world
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: '40s ~existed~
ben_vulpes: yes ofc points in 3space nigh impossible to get close to each other
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know who loved the 40s more than usians ? argentines.
mircea_popescu: you know why ? for the same reason, let's call it the illinois-indiana reason\
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: and people flew where in 40s?
ben_vulpes: other places where one person was landing uncontrolledly at a time?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: erco alone shipped a few dozen / day just in this town
ben_vulpes: must we rehash 'market' thread?
mircea_popescu: in loving memory of http://trilema.com/2012/bribes-in-bitcoins/#comment-117110
ben_vulpes: people go to market for a /reason/
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it isn't that you have no point, but that the 'usgificated air is the best world' is a panglossism.
mircea_popescu: nobody's arguing that, either.
ben_vulpes: yeah dood wtf i'm not saying megaport is only solution
ben_vulpes: only that "planes for dentists" is just as panglossian
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-25#1457134 << actually sounds like a very self-resolving problem :D ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-04-25 02:54 ben_vulpes: individuals can stay up for quite some time, but if you have any concentration of them taking off at 7a to get to work, there's your density-close-to-the-ground problem
asciilifeform: why would a dentist need to fly around ?
asciilifeform: generally he works on local folk
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform because all patients too fat to move ?
ben_vulpes: because if there are highly stable craft the thing approaches golf
ben_vulpes: also dentists fly gliders all the time wtf
ben_vulpes: for /fun/
asciilifeform: ah but for-fun dun happen on 7am weekdayz
asciilifeform: in packs
asciilifeform: nor in crowded city
mircea_popescu: well yes, in fumans hun happens in packs.
ben_vulpes: jesus you really need this spelled out?
asciilifeform: it happens right here
asciilifeform: i live right next to one such place
asciilifeform: where the dentists take off.
asciilifeform: half-to-a-dozen every day.
ben_vulpes: beause dentist is half sane, picks good market, commutes by plane to place
asciilifeform: tiny airfield in middle of nowhere suburb.
ben_vulpes: from mythical cornfield runway
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> from mythical cornfield runway << Quite a few around here
asciilifeform: and it isn't even that the machines are costly, my car, when was new, cost ~= what a gently used 2seater would.
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: in the conversations context ofc, i know they exist and are used by self-dusting farmers
asciilifeform: it is the bureaucracy.
ben_vulpes: yesye
mircea_popescu: might also be the fear of flying.
asciilifeform: wut fear, it's a good death
asciilifeform: where, i ask, is the fear of the car ??
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Also transportation. How else do people in the know go between southern, middle, and western illinois?
asciilifeform: i see smouldering wrecks, and mangled passengers carted away, every day
asciilifeform: iirc if you calc the 'millimorts', the max theoretical lifespan of usian is CAPPED at somewhere like 300 yrs (taken, yes, with eternally unchanging Reich) PURELY by the car.
asciilifeform: asymptotic limit.
ben_vulpes: so ride a bike
ben_vulpes: in a town the auto hasn't ruined
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: doin' what ?
asciilifeform: dentistry ?
asciilifeform: do they even have dentists in such towns
asciilifeform: or still pull teeth by tying to door.
ben_vulpes: yes, plenty, i have been to one recently.
ben_vulpes: if you get your way with hauschwitz it should be academic, barring grocery trips
asciilifeform pictures dentist from film 'django'
ben_vulpes: aha yes old east coast joke
ben_vulpes: "west coast! covered wagons, right? have they wired portland for AC yet?"
ben_vulpes: shambala ofc does not exist.
asciilifeform: shangri-la, on other hand !
ben_vulpes: could not possibly, lizard hitler would never allow.
mircea_popescu: you two sound distinctly like retired dentists in florida retirement home.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: was lucky enough to destroy the things he grew up hating
mircea_popescu: luck ain't got nothing to do with it!
ben_vulpes: can lob mortars from dirigible for weeks
mircea_popescu was lucky enough to grow up hating the right things!
ben_vulpes: get real, right parents, right time.
asciilifeform: 19 of every 20 derps in the motherfucking cars belong, at best, in servant's quarters
asciilifeform: or in the ground
asciilifeform: and not taking up space on road, in air, in the sea, etc.
mircea_popescu: so are you saying this problem is purely political and technology, be it planes or crochet, won't fix it ?!
mircea_popescu: NO ?!
asciilifeform: aha.
asciilifeform: where did i say 'but now planes suck' !
asciilifeform: the machines, as usual, are not at fault.
mircea_popescu: aha.
asciilifeform: nobody forgot how to make the bicycle cardboard thingies.
asciilifeform: i could make one even now.
asciilifeform: not so hard.
ben_vulpes: bamboocycleta! ☟︎
asciilifeform: i once knew a fella whose father's house had a peculiar, oblong mark in the brickwork behind garage.
asciilifeform: turned out, old owner built his airplane in there.
ben_vulpes: actual thing in buenos aires
asciilifeform: wouldn't bother to take them wingz off to get it out
asciilifeform: or perhaps he welded them on
asciilifeform: so he took a sledge hammer and demolished plane-shaped hole.
asciilifeform: then bricked, back up.
asciilifeform: sometime during this, the story went, he found his wife dangling from noose in that workshop
asciilifeform: 'from neglect'
ben_vulpes: good riddance
asciilifeform: that was the kind of american to respect !111
ben_vulpes: wife should be well occupied with children and drive-by-rodgerings, and if children are a burden american should have neither c nor w
mircea_popescu: there is such a thing as genuine neglect. not that i'm proposing it has bearing.
ben_vulpes: as well as genuine assault and rape
mircea_popescu: aha.
asciilifeform: i even saw a man commit genuine jaywalking today.
mod6: Hey all, so I wanted to not only make a list of objectives as we discussed around the 15th, I wanted to also design a very simple ticket system so we can not only have tickets, but perhaps a roadmap with dependencies. I.e. in the way that you have a larger ticket with dependent subtickets. This could help round out a road map to larger 'sagas' like for this july, and 'ideal bitcoin'.
mod6: I created a pipe delimited list: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/10be347b-15b4-41ad-92fc-1036f400f7b7/
mircea_popescu: this is a brilliant idea.
asciilifeform: neato
mod6: And some codeto view this list: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/db661818-43e3-4e63-b4b1-11bb32a148e2/
asciilifeform: can haz this in 80col?
mod6: this code is rough, but its my first working deal.
mod6: asciilifeform: yeah, i'm getting there. I'll try to add that soon.
asciilifeform reads
mircea_popescu: yeah, ok, this is just the ticket, so to speak.
mod6: this code can be just dropped into say, 't.pl' then `chmod +x t.pl` then `./t.pl tickets.txt`
mircea_popescu: mod6 could this a) be piped to a www page on foundation site b) have a way to ref from here ?
mircea_popescu: some sort of per-item ref.
asciilifeform: that would be mind-bendingly spiffy
mircea_popescu: yeah.
mod6: then it'll print out the full list of tickets. if you run `./t.pl` it'll print out the other available commands. such as "add" "rm" or "edit", inwhich a person can do that, change their own list, sign it, and send it to the ML or whatever for review.
mod6: mircea_popescu: this has crossed my mind, haven't yet thought on it enough to implement anything as of yet. but yeah, something that would be coool --
mod6: was thinking about collaborating somehow with deedbot to make it update the new wiki somehow.
mircea_popescu: mod6 perl can just dump html pages neh ? run it in a subdir and that's that
mircea_popescu: could be interesting if we get a wiki bot also yeah.
mod6: yeah, this is true. just need to marshall it around to somewhere and volla.
mircea_popescu: a sort of bash-bot-on-steroids.
mod6: Also, I wanted to note, that it will print ascii graphs such as: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/bb88df2b-d622-4ce6-bc59-db1beb1a0697/
mircea_popescu: we'll end up with #ai eventually at this rate.
mircea_popescu: ahahahaha yes!
mod6: and dot files for svg graphs, but if you want to run this, you need "Graph::Easy" installed. It won't effect you if you don't hvae this installed, unless you try to run the graphing tools - just like V.
mircea_popescu: except if you spew it on www, everyone can see the svgs
mod6: Yes Sir. Sounds like a decent plan there.
mircea_popescu: anyway, this is very nice work right here.
mod6: I'm gonna keep putting some more thigns in there, it's just something I've been playing with since like Friday.
mod6: But, just wanted to give everyone a first look at what is possible here. Please let me know if there is problems or glaring oversights, etc. Thanks in advance.
mod6: Thanks mircea_popescu! Salud!
mircea_popescu: ;)
mod6: On a more philosophical level, I did leave off the idea of ticket 'assignment', simply because I didn't want contributors to not think about a ticket just because their name/keyid isn't assigned to the ticket.
mod6: I'm not sure if that was the correct approach, but it "felt right" when I was making that choice.
mircea_popescu: yeah.
mircea_popescu: seems pretty correct.
mod6: Ok, so hopefully will have a much prettier version of this around the end of the month.
mircea_popescu: TYPE: Ideal bitcoin Q3 2017 << :D
mod6: Hahaha, some optimism in there :]
mod6: oh weird. i must have broke something.
mircea_popescu: via phuctor we find that 43-1.org is a thing. then we discover that https://www.43-1.org/~ansgar/apt/
asciilifeform: dilapidated debian mirror ?
mircea_popescu: last touched last month
mircea_popescu: anyway, uses the 35 e for a ssh key.
asciilifeform: lel
mircea_popescu: in other news lovecraft is perhaps the most bombastically incompetent and pompously ungifted literary critic i ever read.
mod6: ok, im a moron, i had my print statements backwards. Here's the updated perl: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/c704e406-8cfe-461a-ac89-4e66e8328d98/ And the ticket file againhttp://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/f7592a15-0f9a-4b8e-b784-9df595e343d9/
mod6: And here's the output correct, with the ticket types appended to the top: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/bdf52f96-6e9f-4713-a432-f97e73533a37/
mod6: oh ben_vulpes, just noticed something.
mod6: seems that wotpaste stripped out my "<STDIN>" statements.
mircea_popescu: o.O
mod6: here it is in dpaste: http://dpaste.com/2VFJPX8.txt
mod6: maybe it thought it was an HTML thing
ben_vulpes: waaat
ben_vulpes: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/c704e406-8cfe-461a-ac89-4e66e8328d98/?raw=true
ben_vulpes: thanks mod6 i'll get on that
mod6: ahh, ok np.
mod6: i see now, it's in the raw paste, just not the non-raw.
mod6: fwiw, i really like wotpaste tho. works great
jurov: mircea_popescu: mpex accepts orders but won't execute them. some are waiting over 12 hours
asciilifeform: $s http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/CA52EBA9030D46F7DB1222BEEEA6F9B542C6AE9C3B2899912262010AA19F638F
deedbot: $s http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/CA52EBA9030D46F7DB1222BEEEA6F9B542C6AE9C3B2899912262010AA19F638F is not a command.
asciilifeform: hm
asciilifeform: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F466A8D55F9E9363CFC075135A048764B50CA0BAC297EC65670DEE47F06F9752 << nein nein nein nein nein!!111111
shinohai: LOL Hitler
asciilifeform: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5FD767024E90A94CC8B8FAAF203A5EB0F708D9E00CAA9147799D5E7E6F616D91 << werner koch's co
asciilifeform: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/C1C88CD7B5BC8A2338AA2D75C851D5D66E55F225D5C154B651D0861588577DA1 << lol srsly?
punkman: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5FD767024E90A94CC8B8FAAF203A5EB0F708D9E00CAA9147799D5E7E6F616D91 << werner koch's co << lol nice
asciilifeform: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A7D4E511788FA842D463707FA71E2F4AFF924E31A2D2FD84EB7158CD793BFBE7 << moar lulz
asciilifeform: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7EA5B03B4FD8AC88BD9D59C9389EA8E678620391CC5366E3D99417383F77609D http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A2FF671C530DFA823E42782B1C8AF9874CF263653B3517DC3EB4FD602DABBF64 http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7CA14A17798D7F706E0BD77572FA640F291B511A0ADD2D420B6C1B09D31B31BE http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F9E5715A35D36CFAD74E5D259A294DFEF977991D0BEA58C729179642DD9
asciilifeform: C308E http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/EF6F4A716C4514B5E99F16717207BB9FA823A385CEBBAD4D00D242D9C566D522 << '1 is not prime !'
asciilifeform: oh ffs
asciilifeform needs new irctron
asciilifeform: i want to know, in what sewer was born the rat who thought it was acceptable to break lines on nonwhitespace characters.
shinohai: ;;later tell mod6 nice work
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform irc message has fixed max length
mircea_popescu: due to... your beloved fucking packet size.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: everyone knows this.
asciilifeform: CLIENT however does not HAVE to be retarded.
mircea_popescu: that's why your thing got cut
asciilifeform: can split on whitechar.
asciilifeform: COULD.
mircea_popescu: oh oh.
asciilifeform: aha.
mircea_popescu: hehehehe. i didn't see that one coming.
asciilifeform: and incidentally what's packet size to do with irc, it runs on tcp.
mircea_popescu: i dun recall teh specifix.
mircea_popescu: jurov sorry bout that.
jurov: well..recently even eulora server works better than mpex
mircea_popescu: deedbot- http://dpaste.com/0MW0BQJ.txt
mircea_popescu: wait, eulora is some sort of low mark of server working or something ?
mircea_popescu: $up deedbot-
deedbot: deedbot- voiced for 30 minutes.
phf: ah the crafty double dis
mircea_popescu: someone came from his long weekend all irritated.
mircea_popescu: and in other "let's see who we can piss off today" news, http://trilema.com/2014/the-sex-lives-of-other-people/#comment-117117
mircea_popescu: incidentally, i think i'm coming to an actually correct definition of trolling. trolling is the act of providing needed context separated from the message, in a place where the naive reader (who most needs it) is least likely to find or recognize it.
mircea_popescu: it's a deliberately anti-educational stance.
mircea_popescu: education being obviously the exact opposite of trolling.
jurov: yes eulora server was kinda low mark. then it improved
mircea_popescu: motherfucker
mircea_popescu: so i'm, holding a one pound bag of raisins, "industria argentina" of course,
mircea_popescu: when it decides to fucking split at the seam and now i have raisined kitchen floor ;/
mircea_popescu: who the fuck saves on the fucking bags omfg.
mircea_popescu: this country is too fucking cheap to exist, yet if you talk to the inhabitants you'd think they all hail from the fucking oceanside beaches of southern california.
asciilifeform: betcha that bag was carefully calibrated to split.
asciilifeform: over here in the land of mcphreeeedom we have plastic bagz where you put ONE potato and it sags through...
mircea_popescu: like the soviet ones, what were they called
mircea_popescu: the maybekushka
asciilifeform: whatchatalking about, those didn't split
asciilifeform: they were cloth
mircea_popescu: you said sagged!
asciilifeform: авоська
mircea_popescu: avosjka aha
phf: i cary avoska to stores..
asciilifeform: i had one in usa and until recently carried
mircea_popescu: phf i have shopping slaves. SO THERE!
asciilifeform: lel
phf: make them cary avoskas to stores
mircea_popescu: lolwhy.
phf: чтоб жизнь мёдом не казалась
asciilifeform: ^
mircea_popescu: noa lasa.
mircea_popescu: [transylvanian "noa lasa" is this universal thing, like forget about it. not exactly same meaning, but anyway.]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman how do you say it in english ?
jurov: never mind?
mircea_popescu: mebbe. it's very metaphysically flat tho, like the world's all flat.
mircea_popescu: all the english versions are much too spirited, drop it, leave it, straight whiskey to its very mellow cider quality.
mircea_popescu: it's what a disinterested mark would politely say to an inept would-be chump manager. i guess the english speakers don't say anything.
mircea_popescu: "i ain't buyin' it" i guess, here.
trinque: back in a moment with the case-sensitivity fix
trinque: $gettrust aPoCalyptIC
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: 2 by 2 connections.
trinque: $rated BEN_vulPES
mircea_popescu: a cool.
deedbot: trinque rated BEN_vulPES 3 at 3623669040 << friend, gentleman, warrior
mircea_popescu: $gettrust ben-vulpes
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: 0 by 0 connections.
mircea_popescu: scam
trinque: lol, it apparently doesn't do capital underscore!
mircea_popescu: :D
mircea_popescu: juuuus messin witcha.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu> it's what a disinterested mark would politely say to an inept would-be chump manager. i guess the english speakers don't say anything. <- not as directly, no. Possibly something like "it might work," lol
diana_coman: otherwise maybe "let it be" but it's still stronger
mircea_popescu: things the us lacks to survive the coming collapse : item #7, a workable language.
deedbot: [Trilema] - An ode to a tireless bot. - http://trilema.com/2016/912001273-an-ode-to-a-tireless-bot/
asciilifeform thought about wot-signed-only as a spam pill
ben_vulpes: p. much the only sane design
ben_vulpes: http://abovethecrowd.com/2016/04/21/on-the-road-to-recap/ << don't call it a pooooonziiiiiiiii
ben_vulpes: "this generation’s transformational companies (AirBNB, Slack, Snapchat, Uber, etc)" << muahaha
ben_vulpes: > slack
ben_vulpes: > slack
ben_vulpes: > slack
ben_vulpes: > Unicorn basket
ben_vulpes: oh god the lulz don't stop
trinque: lol
trinque: http://pbfcomics.com/103/
pete_dushenski: greetings and salutions!
trinque: good afternoon
ben_vulpes: ey
ben_vulpes: "people began to imagine a world where...profits could come back in vogue"
ben_vulpes: omfg lolztrove
shinohai: o/ pete_dushenski
pete_dushenski: sorry to be away so much of late, been swamped this spring. not that i mind, just not as much forum time atm.
pete_dushenski: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-24#1456937 << i would've done ~something~ that's for damn sure ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-04-24 22:14 BingoBoingo: Yeah, Pete prolly would have archived the old bets by nao.
pete_dushenski: strangest thing, znort's follow-through
pete_dushenski: phf: loving the new search. think you could add a button or link back to the logs so i don't have to diddle the url every time ? ☟︎
ben_vulpes: perhaps he purchased it as a curio
pete_dushenski: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-19#1453907 << was this a new feature being tested for 99994k ? would like to know more ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2016-04-19 22:10 shinohai: ;;later tell mod6 both import and dumpprivkey work \o/
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: i don't think anyone's using kelvin versioning on trb
ben_vulpes: that's mod6's v, iirc
pete_dushenski: the k is the build script
ben_vulpes: mhm
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: just for you http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/classic-cars/news/a28953/toyota-land-cruiser-6x6/
ben_vulpes: hah that's a silly twuk
pete_dushenski: for a silly boy
mircea_popescu: o look, a pete. how's canada!
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes notice that the "whatsap" bullshit that laundered 2bn of facebook's "money" is not on the list. somehow.
mircea_popescu: apparently they're only transformational before someone buys them./
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: in my little refuge within a bubble within a refuge, we're just booming despite the oil glut
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski you know the names carry the link.
pete_dushenski: totally
pete_dushenski: but to go back to the most recent logs, there's no direct link at the top of the page
pete_dushenski: it's not the end of the world either way
mircea_popescu: oh
pete_dushenski: sort of like how kako had permalinks at the top to wiki, stats, logs, search, etc.
mircea_popescu: ftr asciilifeform my current antispam arrangements work splendidly. i get maybe 2-3 items a day i have to look at, which is a-ok. 99.97% ish i never see.
mircea_popescu: it still loads the server, but w/e.
pete_dushenski: https://t.co/REyYaQFpVG << sort of how i imagine stan would react if fired without sufficient cause. except with crays or whatever he twerks on.
pete_dushenski: ^n.b. twitter link
asciilifeform: lelzy
pete_dushenski: thought you'd enjoy that
asciilifeform: he oughta have done the tail, not the head
asciilifeform: head - can be repaired.
pete_dushenski: o ?
pete_dushenski: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-25#1457241 << just like in ghana https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aa-_Smpqfuw ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-04-25 03:22 ben_vulpes: bamboocycleta!
pete_dushenski: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71nKwu2REIL._SX522_.jpg << anyone remember these as a kid ? hilariously entertaining rube goldberg-style marble toy
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: i saw this
asciilifeform: but not as kid, but some time recently in a shop window somewhere.
pete_dushenski: it had no circuits to fiddle with, maybe parents didn't think you'd bite
asciilifeform: as a kid i just had a big bottle of ball bearings
asciilifeform: from phactory
asciilifeform: it was glorious
mircea_popescu: how many did oyu eat ?
asciilifeform: 0 afaik
asciilifeform: they were a big large
mircea_popescu: a
asciilifeform: 2cm across or so.
asciilifeform: stainless.
pete_dushenski: like chinese hand exercise balls
mircea_popescu: o that's pretty good. how many skulls did you crush with your gas-mask based slingshot ?
pete_dushenski: minus the chimes
mircea_popescu: and pete_dushenski has a point : how many girlies did you stuff with pairs of 'em and then made do squats ?
pete_dushenski just bought first pair of chinaballs. still getting used to jingles
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the first time i saw the chinese ballz, i thought that this is what they were sold for !
mircea_popescu: it is.
pete_dushenski doesn't understand how anything can be shipped from china for $2.22 ~all-in~
mircea_popescu: ;;ud ben wa balls
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Ben+Wa+Balls | Shiny cold balls put in your Va jay jay to tighten pussy muscles so you can squeeze ... Excuse me ma'am, I think those are your Ben Wa Balls rolling towards the ...
pete_dushenski: ha!
pete_dushenski: ben wa's parents must be mega-proud
pete_dushenski: mr. wa's tombstone had better include "va jay jay"
deedbot: [Trilema] Today on Trilema : A history of the Polar Crabs ; A Discussion of Very Deep Globules ; A General Theory of the Corn Cobb as well as an Autobiography of Herzog Balthasar Hedgehog by Mr. Burt Mugg. - http://trilema.com/2016/today-on-trilema-a-history-of-the-polar-crabs-a-discussion-of-very-deep-globules-a-general-theory-of-the-corn-cobb-as-well-as-an-autobiography-of-herzog-balthasar-hedgehog-by-mr-burt-mugg/
pete_dushenski: actually, come to think of it, i think girl had these ballz, or similar, during pregnancy. big fan.
mircea_popescu: yep, great for wiminz.
mircea_popescu: girls that don't play with the balls when young piss their pants when old.
pete_dushenski: she can probably attribute much of this training to no-tear v-pipe birth
mircea_popescu: tears aren't THAT common. especially in girls that actually look like you'd want to fuck 'em.
mircea_popescu: as opposed to whatever boyish bs they put on ftv these days.
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, i should prolly write up birth. anyone seen it ?
pete_dushenski: mya well those pencilish ones have kidz too afaik. if not by me.
mircea_popescu: older nicole kidman
pete_dushenski: haven't seen it, no
pete_dushenski: http://priceonomics.com/why-thieves-steal-soap/ << because americans are soooo poor they can barely afford rain buckets to bathe in.
asciilifeform: the tide thing aha
pete_dushenski: how do stores like walgreens combat this ? by LOCKING DOWN SOAP like you would cigarettes or razor blades, apparently.
asciilifeform: has ~nothing to do with soap being dear.
asciilifeform: 'trading sardine'.
pete_dushenski: 'As a Walgreens cashier explains, “It’s easy to sell on the street. Everyone uses soap.”'
shinohai: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-25#1457430 <<< dunno pete_dushenski, I was just using funkenstein's patch ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-04-25 19:26 pete_dushenski: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-19#1453907 << was this a new feature being tested for 99994k ? would like to know more
shinohai: Works swell tho
pete_dushenski: aha. that. ya, i've been meaning to try it.
pete_dushenski: anyone here have experience physical rolling dice a lot ? wondering how many times you rolled a set of 5 before you have sufficient confidence in their fairness. obviously, there's no absolute answer to this inquest, just curious if anyone has bothered or if 'casino dice' are considered sufficient precaution.
asciilifeform: i admit that i'm a little curious re the widespread interest in dice
asciilifeform: i can see generating, e.g., bitcoin private key (though do you have the stomach for the debiasing? what if you need 1,000 rolls?)
asciilifeform: but how about the k-value in sigs ?
asciilifeform: will also roll dice for that ?
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: for the truly daft, what do you mean by 'debiasing' ?
jurov is curious, too
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=debias
danielpbarron: three dice rolls of any biased dice == 1 provably unbiased roll
danielpbarron: not really three though, and it could be infinity
asciilifeform: ^
asciilifeform: there is NOT a bound.
danielpbarron: if you roll doubles you have to roll again
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski look into l'hospital
danielpbarron: and you probably have to roll the same die 3 times as opposed to rolling 3 dice once, unless there's something i'm missing in all this
mircea_popescu: there's a mathematical solution to "what is the probability of x specific configuration come out of y random process of given probabilities"
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: will do.
asciilifeform: the boojum is that no mathematical process can create 'additional' entropy.
mircea_popescu: of course not.
jurov: is it even physically possible to make biased dice with, 50% less entropy output?
jurov: (that can't be detected by cursory inspection)
asciilifeform: jurov: ask the opposite question.
asciilifeform: (how much entropy is there actually in a dice throw.)
mircea_popescu: coupla bits ?
asciilifeform: that's the notion
asciilifeform: but do we know ?
mircea_popescu: well yes.
asciilifeform: the other thing is, i have found that dice appeal to folks because 'not electronic', but these same people then go and generate, e.g., the key, with a computer...
jurov: ideally its log2(6) = 2.58 bits
asciilifeform: it would be quite another thing if they used a pencil, but no.
mircea_popescu: it's unclear to me exactly how not electronic they are.
mircea_popescu: dice roll off a table, that's electrons at work.
jurov: say you fudge the throws badly and in the end get only 2 bits per throw
asciilifeform boots up bricklispmachine and hands to mircea_popescu
jurov: that's still pretty strong key after 100 throws
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform quest for "not electronic" interaction is a little lulzy to me thatsall
asciilifeform: jurov: try to understand what i meant
jurov: i just explained how i understood it?
asciilifeform: jurov: we do not know much much information re future throws is actually, in fact, present in a dice outcome.
asciilifeform: it could easily be >0.
mircea_popescu: if the dice is biased.
asciilifeform: the 'it has n bits' ~presupposes~ the conclusion.
asciilifeform: all physical dice are biased.
mircea_popescu: maybe.
jurov: and i am asking you how much bias do you usually estimate and why?
jurov: by what physical process?
jurov: if it's like 20% as i wrote above, then it's still fine, no?
asciilifeform: by throwing, clearly
asciilifeform: dice also, incidentally, wear.
mircea_popescu: but they do not wear in a predictible fashion
mircea_popescu: which is why i said maybe.
mircea_popescu: still, one really dedicated could create glass dice and sharpen the edge by the same process used to make the few-hundre-atom thick blades they use to cut microscope samples with
mircea_popescu: and then throw it on a magnetic field
jurov: you're welcome to make a specifically worn dice that produces only ~2 bits of entropy. i suspect that would be very hard.
mircea_popescu: jurov i'll make it with 4 faces.
mircea_popescu: "worn"
asciilifeform: actually it would be interesting to conduct 'accelerated aging' experiment on dice.
jurov: oh i forgot to specify "it should be non-obvious"
mircea_popescu: jurov "dwim" ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is not entirely a virgin field. there is even a special tumbler for this process.
phf: it came up in the logs before
asciilifeform: i'd be quite surprised if it were virgin
asciilifeform: phf: link?
phf: actually, i'm misremembering. it's someone built a tumbler to test dice bias, your conclusion was that he's testing errors in his OCR
asciilifeform: ah i recall.
jurov: well, if someone generates their keys with pre-worn dice and tumbler supplied by enemy and strictly following instructions on the tumbler...
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-12-01#1334775 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2015-12-01 19:22 BingoBoingo: http://www.markfickett.com/stuff/artPage.php?id=389 << Six sides good, more sides bad
asciilifeform: other interesting question, imho, re any rng, is - how much does enemy learn if he captures it
asciilifeform: is it safe to discard a set of dice ?
asciilifeform: can dr evil pick it up and learn a few bits of yer key
asciilifeform: and i suppose everyone recalls the roulette laser.
asciilifeform: (and the entirely independent laserless cheat machine that used pure stats, in a shoe)
mircea_popescu: the problem of discards is not well solved to date.
mircea_popescu: which is why people jsut tend to burn everything.
asciilifeform: it is only a problem in ridiculously narrow trickle sort of rng.
asciilifeform: like dice, coin, roulette.
asciilifeform: reason being that these cannot be health-tested with any regularity.
asciilifeform: enemy can only learn something from a worn rng if the owner himself had no way to meaningfully measure wear.
phf: strategic superiority through judicial application of wood chipper
asciilifeform: phf always carries his wood chipper ?
asciilifeform: anyway imho any rng which has measurable wear during normal operating life, is defective design.
mircea_popescu: phf judicious.
phf: that's second time
mircea_popescu: lol
phf: a dice rng is "defective design". it's all over the place, low tech solution right in the middle of high tech stack. can't make one at home, since bias. wouldn't really make key by hand either. any optimizations turn to logical "why not flip electrons instead". i've noticed the tendency though, friend told me that he's generating work passwords with dicewear
phf: i think it's collective unconsciousness response to ongoing diddled hardware revelations
mircea_popescu: i do not agree with this theory.
mircea_popescu: rolling dice is a better source for "please enter your password" than... what, dreaming one up ?
mircea_popescu: people suck at headrng
phf: dd if=/dev/random|LANG=C tr -dc '_A-Z-a-z-0-9'|fold -w10|head -n5
asciilifeform: Apr 25 16:45:47 <phf>i think it's collective unconsciousness response to ongoing diddled hardware revelations << exactly that.
jurov: phf are you 100% sure you did it right?
mircea_popescu: it... doesn't work.
mircea_popescu: 0+7 records in 0+0 records out 0 bytes (0 B) copied, 13.2392 s, 0.0 kB/s
phf: perhaps reading from /dev/urandom will fix it on linux
mircea_popescu: but you see his point.
phf: i do, but he doesn't see mine
mircea_popescu: well that's his problem.
phf: i make my tools myself, so script above works on my system, i have sufficient idea of its operation to put it to live munition test.
phf: but if the question is about other people, then there's a trust slice that is manifest on the system. the kind of person who trusts his os x, should also trust the password generator on it. kind of person who downloads random online apps by some criteria, would be able to apply same criteria to selecting a password generator/manager
asciilifeform: it is not that i wish to discourage folks from throwing dice, or dartboard, etc. but that they ought to be aware of the limitations.
asciilifeform: (one of which, that has not so far been stated here, is that anyone with optical view of the room has your bits.)
asciilifeform: and - quite possibly - anyone with an audio track of the room has also some.
mircea_popescu: phf fancy that - they also make their tools themselves.
mircea_popescu: moreover, i'd say 99% of the people making passwords by throwing dice don't have dd or | on the system, because they're stuck on winblowz.
deedbot: [Trilema] Birth - http://trilema.com/2016/birth/
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sorta what i was reacting against - the view that dice solve an otherwise rotten environ
phf: ^
mircea_popescu: there is nothing wrong with man carrying his water skin in plagued venice. "but where does the water in it come from"
mircea_popescu: let him be.
phf: right, we're just approaching this from different direction
mircea_popescu: hey, at least they got 2fa.
mircea_popescu: 2fa, loofah & woofer.
phf: from perspective of general education, it's better hygiene where there wasn't any before. i'm more questioning people who use diceware because they don't trust own /dev/random
mircea_popescu: well, own /dev/random si blocking, as you can see
mircea_popescu: and i can't blame the man who doesn't trust /urandom
mircea_popescu: iirc that was in the logs.
mircea_popescu: sure, an argument could be brought that "hey, even blocking /random is faster than dice". maybe. then consider machines that do not have a rng at all, such as pogo. maybe they want pws too. etc.
mircea_popescu: discussion rapidly becomes a "why would i own a sliderule, i have my computor". well, some people own a slide rule.
asciilifeform: i see dice as a sort of bayonet
asciilifeform: a last resort.
mircea_popescu: recall that the strength of the wot comes specifically from there not being a standard of behaviour. ☟︎
asciilifeform: aha.
phf: mircea_popescu: i don't have issue with people using slide rule. i'm reacting to people who are buying slide rules on ebay, because it's the cool retro computational device
mircea_popescu: hey, you buy sluts in e-bar because they're the juicy, pendulous titted fucktoys.
mircea_popescu: aesthetics is permitted, even in geekdom.
phf: hah, well, i'm saying diceware is ~soo~ last year
mircea_popescu: o ? i'm slow, what's in ?
asciilifeform: pissin on a set of electrical contacts!
asciilifeform: is in
asciilifeform: i hear itsthel4t3st
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know, for the male slave boi this is actually true ?
asciilifeform: waiwut
mircea_popescu: once mistress gets tired of taking off the chastity device now and again, there's this special electrified insert, stimulates teh prostate, instaorgasm and move on.
asciilifeform: ah like for bulls.
mircea_popescu: originally aha.
asciilifeform: i also recall this was used on corpses
asciilifeform: (fresh ones)
shinohai: Get cucked by a product originally designed for bulls. Neato.
mircea_popescu: smaller, obviously, and for that matter can be designed for urethral insertion.
asciilifeform: shinohai: get cucked by a dead bloke!
shinohai: >.<
mircea_popescu: hey, film i just reviewed is exactly that!
asciilifeform: iirc you need an anal cathode tho.
asciilifeform: (think, where is prostate)
mircea_popescu: works as a single spire. prolly closes with itself.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: how the hell do you get current through prostate that way
mircea_popescu: i never looked into the matter that deeply!
asciilifeform: link to item ?
mircea_popescu: uh not everything's on the internets
asciilifeform: custom, i take it
asciilifeform: i had similar for gurlz
mircea_popescu: ahahaha nm
mircea_popescu: http://www.amazon.com/Electrical-Urethral-Prostate-Masturbation-Toys185mm/dp/B019DLV1K4
mircea_popescu: it self-closes, obviously.
mircea_popescu: 40 bux.
asciilifeform: the downer re electrical toys is nearly always contact burn
asciilifeform: (if there is ~any~ dc component, you also get, electrolytically, hcl at the interface, nasty)
asciilifeform speaks from experience
mircea_popescu: i don't think tissue damage is a drawback for the practitioners.
mircea_popescu: on the contrary, would prolly be a selling point. "100 orgasms, then your genitals fall off"
asciilifeform: l0l!
asciilifeform: also iirc the sensation is distinctly unorgasmic, yer balls just empty & thatsit
mircea_popescu: this WAS the whole point.
asciilifeform: a more interesting imho variant of this experiment is to have the device ~block~ the signal to balls, during normal fucktion
asciilifeform: (waveform left as exercise for the reader)
mircea_popescu: cheaper for her to get a dildo than to turn you into one.
mircea_popescu: and in similar news, http://49.media.tumblr.com/eb0f7d6d82b1dfde430f1ecb5529297a/tumblr_o1kyajm8OC1s5zureo2_400.gif
deedbot: [Qntra] US Appeals Court Takes Time To Rule On Sportsball Case - http://qntra.net/2016/04/us-appeals-court-takes-time-to-rule-on-sportsball-case/
shinohai: asciilifeform: I can sub,it public key to phuctor or is down?
shinohai: *submit
pete_dushenski: fueled by that killer dice debate, i'm off to the races gents. bon soir a tous!
asciilifeform: shinohai: not only up but as far as i can tell, up without any interruptions
shinohai: Just for shits-n-giggles I tried submitting this key but tells me is not valid: http://dpaste.com/3CCR99V.txt ☟︎
BingoBoingo: ;;ud spiff
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=spiff | Proper Noun: Part of the name of Spaceman Spiff one of the many alter-egos of ... -Spiff-tastic (Adjective and interjection, combination of words spiff and fantastic
BingoBoingo: wtf
BingoBoingo: not even wrong