trinque: lol, extra points for the stripper name
williamdunne: Out of all the derp that goes on, on bitcointalk, that seems to be completely sane
williamdunne: Operated by someone in the US, its self-preservation on his part to comply
williamdunne: If you send messages in cleartext on a forum run in the US, I'm not sure what more can be expected
williamdunne: (That is not to say that the action is just, just should have been predicted)
cazalla: williamdunne, no doubt he's in a difficult situation but with the last one, he wasn't even going to mention anything and had to be convinced to provide additional information to the public if memory serves
cazalla: BingoBoingo wrote on it, might have a better recollection of events than i
trinque: the idea that a forum is something which is hosted in one particular place instead of distributed among its members is absurd
williamdunne: cazalla: If he didn't comply straight away, it would still end up with them threatening him personally. I would do exactly the same if I was in the US. Best not to mess with the guys with guns
williamdunne: Then again, I also wouldn't still be in the US
williamdunne: trinque: It suits well for most people, as do day-jobs mocking factory-floors
☟︎ williamdunne: trinque: Has its place, even if not what we need
trinque: williamdunne: why for example does freenode need to be involved in this exchange I'm having with you now?
trinque: am I not able to get packets to you myself?
BingoBoingo: williamdunne: Plenty of things law enforcement can use to leverage Theymos, most prominently the GLBSE shennanigans
williamdunne: trinque: Convenience, everything on here is completely public anyway so no use in a subpoena.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55100 @ 0.00031447 = 17.3273 BTC [+]
trinque: williamdunne: of course, I'm asking a more fundamental question about "why the hell still mostly centralized services using HTTP"
williamdunne: trinque: Sounds good, although how would that work with dynamic IPs?
trinque: williamdunne: good thread in the comments
williamdunne: Could many of the same goals not be achieved by just integrating GPG into IRC?
trinque: williamdunne: what's the thought there, that the messages within the IRC protocol would be GPG messages?
trinque: you could probably make something that was sort of like the proposal by cramming all the traffic, both gossip and direct messages through pm
trinque: probably better to design the thing from the ground up eh?
trinque: williamdunne: tangentially related it was rather trivial to make point-to-point chat with gpg, awk and netcat
williamdunne: danielpbarron: What reason would that matter in particular? All our messages are public anyway. I doubt your OS was written exclusively by a member of the WoT (even if you did compile it yourself)
trinque: williamdunne: I think the idea is eventually to have a full stack within the WoT
☟︎ williamdunne: trinque: Maybe, if it works well then awesome. Will be a great thing. But seems like it could end up more hassle than it is worth
trinque: williamdunne: hassle to whom?
williamdunne: trinque: Each individual end-user, we'll exclude development efforts
trinque: it should be done at a certain point, not a katamari of features
trinque: if it passes messages between nodes as described, and does that perfectly, that's a fantastic place to stop, then build separate things which make use of that
williamdunne: trinque: maybe, I might just not be thinking creatively enough
Citizenfive: A properly-done "better IRC" would pretty much fix most objections I have with the current WoT, btw
trinque: Citizenfive: read the spec?
Citizenfive: Just the RFC. The general spirit of it is sound.
williamdunne: Citizenfive: my familiarity with OTR is very slim, having only used it in conjunction with jabber. But what does it offer that GPG doesn't?
trinque: nah not the only thing there, as I understand it, it opts for deniability
trinque: Citizenfive: thanks, I will read this
trinque: Citizenfive: I don't think off-the-record is what's wanted here
trinque: take the example in the logs above, asciilifeform is using an alternate nick while traveling, and it appears someone decided to spoof as him
williamdunne: Citizenfive: They would effectively need to be mutually exclusive if deniability is what you're going for in any group chat setting would they not
trinque: well there's a distinction between saying "I am connected to the node I think I am"
trinque: and saying "this message I'm looking at was certainly authored by X"
trinque: I want the former without question
trinque: the latter is a feature one could use or not
Citizenfive: Both are very good tools. At present, I see many solutions trying to fit the square peg of PGP into the gaping goatse of "maintaining OPSEC in an adverse environment of well-heeled adversaries". That is, it fits, but a large round peg, perhaps OTR, would allow less... spillage.
trinque: Citizenfive: it appears one of the goals of the gossipd network is for the topology of the network to be the topology of the WoT
Citizenfive: The visual breaks down, but I'm amenable to a solution that uses both pegs in some way.
danielpbarron: must be in WoT -- until then, generate your own temporary keys for "off the record" communication
trinque: danielpbarron: there is a place for non-WoT authenticated communication
Citizenfive: fuck's sake, the WoT is fine, lol; it too is a tool
trinque: take the namesake of this nick ^
Citizenfive: Right now, too few users of the WoT know how to use it *properly*, so it's not super important to me at this time. When that changes, I will use it.
☟︎☟︎ trinque: Citizenfive: define properly
danielpbarron: the users who do know how to use it "properly" are the only users worth dealing with
trinque: yes yes, WoT is good, let her speak
Citizenfive: MP appears to know how, in his description of how to use it he explains what it is and isn't
trinque: Citizenfive: I'm asking for my own information, not as part of an implicit debate
Citizenfive: Without searching, if he tells me [user X] also uses it properly, I would probably trust that. All subject to the extent that I trust MP's intentions and motivations, which is sorta the point of a WoT
trinque: was just asking your interpretation
Citizenfive: trilema.com/2014/what-the-wot-is-for-how-it-works-and-how-to-use-it/
danielpbarron: what's the objection then? that not enough net effect yet?
trinque: danielpbarron: say, oh I don't know, I'm deep within the NSA... and I want to leak some documents
trinque: why in hell would I communicate with you using something that requires I create a (for all reasonable measures) permanent identity
danielpbarron: the identity doesn't have to be tied to a slave name
trinque: true enough, and one might want to know later he's dealing with the same citizenfour as last time
Citizenfive: I guess that, and more critically, amoung its users, I see too much overreliance on it (which is to say, people who don't fully grip the CAPS&LIMS of it as a tool)
trinque: however in the process of doing said leaking, and especially in the process of *establishing* trust one may want deniable messaging
trinque: gossipd as I understand it readily supports that
trinque: you connect to some node that's the all-welcoming orifice and it forwards it on
trinque: and the chain of connections from that point onward is known
Citizenfive: But we'll get there. That's the difficulty with anything. The WoT automates some rep stuff, but doesn't automate KNOWING what really is and isn't automated, or something like that
Citizenfive: I'm not prepared to type enough to really explain my thinking at the moment
trinque dives back into meatspace work
Citizenfive: It automates collecting and remembering-correctly certain things. These actions were previously done in one's own head, usually with less fidelity and in ways that required more effort or energy or whatever. Idk, I call it automation, but it doesn't really matter.
Citizenfive: The above is Feynman's favorite XKCD, and whoever can tell me why becomes my favorite asseteer
trinque: Citizenfive: reminds me a bit of the vid where he discusses magnetism
trinque: the magnetism one came to mind because he goes from a superficial understanding of the thing to a deeper and deeper description, ultimately saying "we have no idea"
trinque: mircea_popescu: good evening
assbot: Logged on 17-04-2015 15:38:26; Chillum: hardware hacking is cool
mircea_popescu: "Slack brings all your communication together in one place. It's real-time messaging, archiving and search for modern teams."
assbot: Logged on 17-04-2015 19:09:10; BingoBoingo: No idea. Likely one or more impersonators.
Citizenfive: Trinique wins, with bonus points. I usually use the bit about knowing the name of a bird.
assbot: Logged on 17-04-2015 19:18:32; kakobrekla: thats not around.
assbot: Logged on 17-04-2015 22:45:24; pete_dushenski: heh, this murphy douglas fellow gets it.
gribble: Error: For identification purposes, you must be authenticated to use the rating system.
assbot: Citizenfive is not registered in WoT.
Citizenfive: For politeness and the convenience of the asseteers, I will register if I stick around.
williamdunne: Citizenfive: Mircea just offered you a rating, and a compliment to go with it.
☟︎ williamdunne: Citizenfive: Any backstory to the 'twitter' association?
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: I was just pointing out that its quite rare, they can go at their own pace;)
assbot: Logged on 17-04-2015 23:32:14; Citizenfive: Yeah. Seemed to have a specific reason, too. I don't expect I'm a regular conversation topic.
Citizenfive: I will consider it the compliment that it is, in this "country", and am grateful for it.
williamdunne: Citizenfive: "you're the twitter chick ?" - I'm assuming this was addressed at you
mircea_popescu: in other news, these guys actually beat the puerto madero dock. incredible walkers.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20100 @ 0.00031685 = 6.3687 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 00:21:09; trinque: fuck you, entire web
williamdunne: Citizenfive: So how was it that you found #b-a?
trinque: mircea_popescu: must order someone to copy it down for it << in 3 ring binders with those fancy tab-stickers
Citizenfive: williamdunne: I've known of it and lurked periodically over the years. This marks the second time MP has personally invited me, and it'd be rude to not see why, at the least.
Citizenfive: Which means MP, no longer on Twitter, still watches it (or someone noticed)
Citizenfive: Back when you were still on Twitter, several moons ago
Citizenfive: mircea_popescu: small world. Extremely so, though I guess bell curves and the size of the developed physical world explain most of it.
mircea_popescu: this is concerning, because it has two possible explanations. one being that my intel sucks, the other being that the us is running out of people.
mircea_popescu: as oft said here, the situation is so soviet it bleeds.
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: People as if in people worth listening to, or people as if in humans?
mircea_popescu: well neither exactly. people as in people capable to listen to themselves.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20590 @ 0.00031554 = 6.497 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58839 @ 0.0003169 = 18.6461 BTC [+] {2}
Citizenfive: I believe there are few good English-speaking minds; those countries do too thorough a job of taking children with potential and delivering batteries (as in, the Matrix sort) into adulthood. There are few Ender Wiggin minds left by the age of 18.
Citizenfive: It's not a grand conspiracy of course; there are no reptilian overlords, but the state of things is curiously perplexing.
☟︎ Citizenfive: Anyway I might as well register a key so you can quit voicing me manually.
Citizenfive: Not influential enough. But then everyone thinks Hunger Games is omg so relevant!
Citizenfive: Authors and sci-fi folks have been screaming this shit for years
williamdunne: Citizenfive: I'm probably one of the younger people here, and from my experience the biggest complaints are that any sort of discourse from rhetoric is largely discouraged, and you are given almost no freedom as to move outside the syllabus.
Citizenfive: Those who notice the re-runs and recycled plots eventually wind up here, and a few other places where such minds go
williamdunne: Citizenfive: IIRC the hunger-games author though more democracy was the answer
Citizenfive: Because the internet lets all minds who question these things find these places, QED (probably) there are fewer minds than we'd like
mircea_popescu: williamdunne well, obviously it is the answer, just, not to any question worth asking.
mircea_popescu: "Over drinks last night, one of the beautiful young ladies in attendance brought up the question of ‘free will’ with me. " << eh petey...
Citizenfive: DEMOCRACY isn't actually a thing. Not in a meaningful sense. Hence every country is a democracy. A well-architected democratic republic has some neat features, for example. But democracy is kinda like an adjective.
mircea_popescu: eh, democracy is a thing, even if derpy iliterate muricans never bother to learn what the words mean. it's not gonna change what it is just because a bunch of people have nfi.
Citizenfive: It is useful in describing something. Like the word modern. Modern car. Modern house. Modern, by itself, may or may not be useful. Modern art?
mircea_popescu: we could say that the meaning of democracy is fundamentally undemocratic.
williamdunne: Citizenfive: I completely agree; but I will assume they were going with the definition of diluting power to all, something along the lines of direct democracy
mircea_popescu: modern art is quite meaningful, yes. ever read the "what is art" thing ?
Citizenfive: williamdunne: See! DIRECT democracy. Also an actual thing, and a meaningful phrase. "Democracy" in REAL english just means "good" or something.
mircea_popescu: "real" english just means democratic english, which is not english.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in orc speak, everything means the same and is spelled "urgh"
Citizenfive: anyway I don't want to get lost into semantics; I think most here understand whatever system of governance the US has, it manages to masquerade as a democracy, and isn't a good system. Whatever that says about the word is less important to me.
mircea_popescu: well you're right in that it would try and to thew same degree succeed to masquerade as anything else, including a teosophy.
mircea_popescu: any play's equally successful if played out for the goats.
williamdunne: Citizenfive: Any system that provides people with the ability to voice and attempt to enact opinions they are not qualified to have is a bad idea in my books. The crowd has no wisdom, select actors with value behind them do.
mircea_popescu: which value you can only evaluate in a system that's actually open to idiots.
Citizenfive: Right. And so long as people accept that God wrote the Bible because the Bible says so, or a democracy is good because a "democracy" says so, will miss questioning what any of those things ARE.
Citizenfive: literally or as a joke ref to Bill Clinton re: "IS"
mircea_popescu: merely the fact that this question can be asked would seem to pull the rug from under yer feet eh.
assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 01:00:47; trinque: williamdunne: I think the idea is eventually to have a full stack within the WoT
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: My particular complaint is that while we can evaluate who has more value in this particular system, the people with value's opinions have no more weight in process than those without. Hence a large number of welfare whores/elderly having a lot of influence
mircea_popescu: williamdunne anyway, to do some positive work : democracy is the notion that what people think matters. the exact opposite of alf's favourite, "the cold equations" (which'd describe a republic).
mircea_popescu: there's really no alternative : either one or the other. republics fail because not enough spartans, democracies are all one because idiots are all one. cccp was a democracy too.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59750 @ 0.00031554 = 18.8535 BTC [-]
Citizenfive: What I'm saying, if I'm saying *anything*, is that the words don't matter. And as a word, democracy seems to have too many contradictory definitions to be especially useful as a descriptor. If US = democracy, well, that's not good. If Switzerland = democracy, that's a bit better, though the consensus is that beast is a "DIRECT democracy".
williamdunne: Would lack of governance not be the alternative? (or self-governance if that wording floats your boat).
mircea_popescu: Citizenfive can you distinguish between the "words don't matter" position and (mutatis mutandins), the "BUT it is called the “Worldwide Web” so there really is NO chance of any site being 100% secure" ?
mircea_popescu: williamdunne suppose you have a five year old kid on your knees and she asks what happens if there's nothing in a box. "well... there'd be air" "no, not even air"
trinque: Citizenfive | What I'm saying, if I'm saying *anything*, is that the words don't matter. << I used to think this; lately I consider it an autoimmune disorder caused by lifetime immersion in symbolic shit
☟︎☟︎☟︎ mircea_popescu: nigga... say wut ?! what "lack of governance" wonder be this, of the box so empty it doesn't even contain a vacuum ?
Citizenfive: The trick is how to discuss democracy, then, when everyone has their own idea of what it means. Or any topic. I've found most arguments can be traced to the arguers somewhere having slightly different internal definitions for something.
mircea_popescu: Citizenfive the next trick to find is that you can get people quite bothered by carefully using their contributions to words.
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: Well, depends how we want to define governance
assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 01:05:03; Citizenfive: But use OTR
mircea_popescu: if you've already lost the war, why are you derping with axes and shit.
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: I wonder what was said internally at the SEC about your offer to govern the world of BTC assets?
assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 01:17:25; Citizenfive: Right now, too few users of the WoT know how to use it *properly*, so it's not super important to me at this time. When that changes, I will use it.
Citizenfive: Basically, all can be sorted out via Socratic roundtables — everyone looking to, fundamentally, prove themselves WRONG, rather than to prove themselves RIGHT. Eventually the people at the table find and exorcise their internal inconsistencies, and arrive together at Reality.
Citizenfive: Do you believe in an objective reality, or is it subjective?
mircea_popescu: this is a rehash of "socialism will come once people are generous", which was a rehash of "christ will come once people are good".
mircea_popescu: you can't seriously contemplate a system so easy t oattack. i will attack it.
mircea_popescu: just because i do not wish to be part of something this trivial to attack, nor do i see merit in its continued existence.
Citizenfive: That'd be interesting, as I don't believe either of those.
mircea_popescu: What do you say, Mircea? Are you a narcissist? "Narcissist" means egotistical, self-focused, and vain.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33400 @ 0.00031731 = 10.5982 BTC [+] {2}
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: This is trial by a jury of your peers in the WoT
mircea_popescu: basically, this is not different from shanonizer (seen commonly in spam)
mircea_popescu: i was kinda rooting for simpleminded psychopath, myself.
Citizenfive: I seem to have improperly conveyed the degree of importance I place on this "word" stuff. It's not particularly important; don't worry about it.
mircea_popescu: Citizenfive i was just discussing a snipped from the thing he linked
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: Narcissistic still fits most descriptions of psychopathy, so you may still achieve your dreams
mircea_popescu: eh in the sense of "i think i might have been raped" fits most modern descriptions of rape.
williamdunne: True, seems like a lack of care for many could be easily misinterpreted as narcissism
mircea_popescu: anyway, more about this tomorro i guess, it's been a long day. tada.
Citizenfive: Narcissist != someone with DSM's definition of NPD
williamdunne: It was based off of the Qntra comment, although apparently the trial is based upon these characteristics: >> What do you say, Mircea? Are you a narcissist? "Narcissist" means egotistical, self-focused, and vain.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40061 @ 0.00031786 = 12.7338 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Logged on 17-04-2015 20:27:29; pete_dushenski: ;;later tell ben_vulpes but what if i wanna advertise my pgp version and its implied affiliations ? also, sorry for skipping your scoop mention in the cavirtex article, it just seemed a little tardy to have mentioned it.
assbot: Logged on 17-04-2015 19:08:40; trinque: BingoBoingo: anyone figure out whether ascii was fucking around or if that was an actual impersonator?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55811 @ 0.0003198 = 17.8484 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 00:22:11; williamdunne: trinque: It suits well for most people, as do day-jobs mocking factory-floors
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21854 @ 0.00032125 = 7.0206 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 17-04-2015 23:37:04; Citizenfive: I'll reconsider joining your super-secret boy band. Maybe. Depends on MP.
assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 01:54:00; williamdunne: Citizenfive: Mircea just offered you a rating, and a compliment to go with it.
assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 01:59:03; Citizenfive: (thread → channel)
assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 02:31:01; Citizenfive: It's not a grand conspiracy of course; there are no reptilian overlords, but the state of things is curiously perplexing.
☟︎ williamdunne: pff and who are you again? << not clear who addressed at
Citizenfive: I like PFS by default, and OTR makes that happen in a fairly frictionless way. You are of course welcome to use whatever cryptosuites you feel work best for you.
assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 03:37:30; williamdunne: Also Citizenfive: Where are you CTO?
Citizenfive: williamdunne: of a thing called FNXGRU. It's not clearnet.
Citizenfive: If we used titles that's what I'd be, anyway
williamdunne: Citizenfive: So what is it, if you don't mind my asking?
ben_vulpes: Citizenfive: i've barely scratched the surface of gpg, and otr has no lineage in my wot so i describe the tools i'd use were i to think PFS useful for me
☟︎ ben_vulpes: but i'm bound for the gasenwagen anyways, why bovver i ask
Citizenfive: oh I don't care if it's _the_ "OTR" but that sort of key architecture is desirable
Citizenfive: For those of us who will be avoiding the gasenwagen
ben_vulpes: "give me six words of an innocent man, and i will find something in them with which to hang him"
ben_vulpes: you really think lizard hitler gives a whit about what you actually say?
ben_vulpes: Citizenfive: consider me a rube, please, open to enlightenment. how does PFS protect you from false accusations?
ben_vulpes: if anything, this'd be ammo in arguments with ascii_lander
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [01:55] heck, portland levies "art taxes" nao. << swear jar
Citizenfive: ben_vulpes: It doesn't. It's for chaotic opsec. Compartmentalization.
ben_vulpes: also i've been drinking with the cult so please forgive
ben_vulpes: "and that nobody's going to be able to tell him which is right at that level, but he keeps them in his head, hoping that they'll give him different ideas" << story of my NPC-dom in le cultissima
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66353 @ 0.00032458 = 21.5369 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [01:57] we actually ran out of dock, five miles later. << i whet their appetite for you
ben_vulpes: !up Citizenfive anyways, welcome. don't mind me, i'm just the court clown.
Citizenfive: then I expect you will greatly enjoy the illustrations in that slide deck
ben_vulpes retrieves the kilo of chocolates from the hilariously over-stuffed minifridge
ben_vulpes: mod6 ascii_lander: d'you think he escaped?
ben_vulpes: <Citizenfive> ... whatever system of governance the US has ... isn't a good system << awh but i love it it's going to burn itself out so much more quickly than other more reasonable alternatives
mod6: did anyone figure out how to turn the closet light off?
☟︎ ben_vulpes: hotel redacto has the most delightful puzzles
mod6: ok strange but true
mod6: im like waaay to tired to search hard. but i did actually search 3 times.
mod6: i nearly unscrewed the bulb.e
ben_vulpes: "i guess i'll try to sleep with light leaking out from underneath the OHHHHHHH"
mod6: hey, everything is dead over here.
mod6: if you don't see/hear from me by 11am, plz come to my room and knock on my door, or call my room #?
ben_vulpes: before you crash do you want my converter?
mod6: yeah no worries. i'll get an adapter tomorrow
mod6: i'll probably wake up at 9, but cant be sure since i hvaen't slept in like... 36 hours
ben_vulpes: <williamdunne> [02:56] mircea_popescu: This is trial by a jury of your peers in the WoT << o.O
williamdunne: ben_vulpes: It was a joke re: a comment on Qntra
Citizenfive: williamdunne: It's not described shortly, really... a handful of generalists, and some unusually useful specialists.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53500 @ 0.0003263 = 17.4571 BTC [+] {3}
ben_vulpes: heh just as i was thinking "omg this log" i stumble across me own lines
ben_vulpes: So the moral, if anything, is “run slowly and learn to speak bear” << hyu
ben_vulpes: As I write this, the prosecution has showed that DPR’s private PGP key was on Ross Ulbricht’s laptop. How’s that strong proof of identity looking now? << funnily, it's more or less common knowledge that they shared the key around
ben_vulpes: i'm too much of a derp to really grok the implication of the statement, though, having failed all of my tradecraft classes.
ben_vulpes: "Open Source" as a measure of quality is bullshit. Many eyes don't see squat. It's orthogonal AT BEST to quality ( probably actually negatively correlated ) << tell a kid about it
ben_vulpes: Quality: Medium? In C :( Well scrutinised. Protocol well analyzed
ben_vulpes: tor: Quality: C code. One implementation, but well funded dev and lots of scrutiny. Good. << such kek
ben_vulpes: pgp: * Signed message? More like “cryptographic proof that I wrote this incriminating statement” << myeah
ben_vulpes: Windows is currently the most secure mainstream OS. I mean, we can’t stand _using_ it, but that doesn’t change the facts. The kernel is golden, the userland protections
ben_vulpes: are stellar << wuttttttttttttttttttttttttt
Citizenfive: Well those are among the most widely used and studied things in all of cryptoland. Vs. everything else, i.e. some arbitrary piece of FOSS something. Stuff like Tor is what gives everyone a false sense that everyone is all over everything in FOSSland
Citizenfive: Bitcoin is small, but due to financial incentives is highly scrutinized. That's a good way to do it, but no one does
Citizenfive: I'd bet on Bitcoin's security (code-wise) over Tor or anything else, just because of that
☟︎ Citizenfive: Hence, maybe — holyfuckwhatanidea — financially incentivize Tor scrutinization at the protocol level? O.O
Citizenfive: But not Tor, maybe. Perhaps something new. But Tor-like.
ben_vulpes: joke must be way over my teeny leetle brane
Citizenfive: Well it's safer than OS X. How many mainstream OSes are there?
ben_vulpes: from ignorance: how so safer than macbsd?
assbot: Even more evidence that Apple was full of shit."/osxreverser: "Fixing rootpipe in Mavericks to call Apple’s bluff"
https://t.co/HK5EWLACap"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37700 @ 0.00032911 = 12.4074 BTC [+] {2}
ascii_lander: mircea_popescu: as oft said here, the situation is so soviet it bleeds. << ahahaha guess what.
Citizenfive: as for anything else, on the hardware... again, all depends on the threat model. Pretty sure there are microcode backdoors in everything, so
ben_vulpes: give up, surrender to obab, commit seppuku i suppose
Citizenfive: if the threat model includes USG, at the DPR-severity level (Senators declaring war on you — see Schumer etc a couple years ago), only compartmentation will save you (maybe)
ascii_lander: Citizenfive: this is where one discovers that the machine is not magic. and that resistance is possible.
ascii_lander: Citizenfive: in place of surrender - decide, to go to the bottom of the sea with honour
ben_vulpes: leave babe dirigible keys and train autopilot to recognize her voice
Citizenfive: For most of us here, that means either (1) resign to being an NPC, and stay off the radar that would allow use of *those* sorts of USG assets, or (2) compartment, compartment, compartment
ascii_lander: Citizenfive: there is also the option of learning basic principles of how apparatus is put together
ascii_lander: who build the computer you are sitting on? gods?
ascii_lander: can't speak for others, but no gods involved with this junker
Citizenfive: ascii_lander: You aren't rocking an Intel or AMD cpu in your machine?
ascii_lander: mircea_popescu: … asks what happens if there's nothing in a box. "well... there'd be air" "no, not even air"…. "so then a vacuum" "no, not even vacuum" << my brother tormented me with this 'what-if' when was a boy
Citizenfive: Well anyway, if you believe you know all the details and have the threat vectors properly mitigated, then you're already compartmenting, so don't worry about any of this
ben_vulpes: "Dear God, please don't use Pond for anything real yet. I've hammered out nearly 20K lines of code that have never been reviewed. Unless you're looking to experiment you should go use something that actually works."
ascii_lander: mircea_popescu: ;;google ender wiggin << mega-b00k by o. s. card
☟︎ ascii_lander: mircea_popescu: dude just how influential WAs that book. << to the point that it became among the only 'science fictional' yarns elevated to 'classic' and made mandatory in schools, etc, in usa
ben_vulpes: heavy opsec focus, but you can derive that from logs
ascii_lander caught up with log, unclear on what is referred to here
ben_vulpes: i don't even know what opsec means either
ben_vulpes: does not have dirigible, desires to preserve meat
Citizenfive: ben_vulpes: nope, no startup, confirmed for did not read logs
ben_vulpes: or perhaps is confident meat is undesireable
ascii_lander: ben_vulpes: 'Fareweel, ye dungeons dark and strong, / Fareweel, Fareweel tae thee. / MacPherson's time will nae be lang / On yonder gallows tree. / Sae rantin'ly, sae wantonly / Sae dauntin'ly gaed he / He played a sprig and danced a jig / Below the gallows tree.' (™) (R)
☟︎ ascii_lander: ^ there is a top-octane ru translation of this i was taught as a boy
Citizenfive: hang on, I'm gen'ing a keypair so I don't contribute to you fags' carpal tunnel every 30 minutes
ben_vulpes: 'tisn't the typing part of computers as what's damaging to me poor meatsack
ascii_lander: mega-mindphuck to anyone who knows either variant
ben_vulpes: Citizenfive: whence the logs contention? iirc you said nothing about your occupation in-chan...
ascii_lander: who also did modern ru readers' version of shakespeare
ben_vulpes: stahp ascii_lander i cannot spare the time for learning russian
☟︎ ascii_lander: 'I've liv'd a life of sturt and strife; / I die by treacherie: / It burns my heart I must depart, / And not avenged be. / There's some come here tae see me hanged / And some to buy my fiddle. / But before I do part wi' her / I'll brak her thro' the middle./ He took the fiddle in both of his hands/ And he broke it o'er a stone./ Says,"There's nae ither hand shall play on thee/ When I am dead and gone."'
ben_vulpes: odd data point: gore afficioonados claim orcs are shooting videos with phonecams horizontally oriented
ben_vulpes: i imagine its to capture more of 'action'
ben_vulpes: ping someone when your keys are ready, Citizenfive
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58200 @ 0.00031554 = 18.3644 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53100 @ 0.00031606 = 16.7828 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 89952 @ 0.00031813 = 28.6164 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24000 @ 0.00032167 = 7.7201 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71350 @ 0.00031544 = 22.5066 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23200 @ 0.00032154 = 7.4597 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 03:49:56; assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 00:22:11; williamdunne: trinque: It suits well for most people, as do day-jobs mocking factory-floors
assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 03:58:19; assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 02:31:01; Citizenfive: It's not a grand conspiracy of course; there are no reptilian overlords, but the state of things is curiously perplexing.
assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 04:02:31; ben_vulpes: Citizenfive: i've barely scratched the surface of gpg, and otr has no lineage in my wot so i describe the tools i'd use were i to think PFS useful for me
assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 04:30:56; mod6: did anyone figure out how to turn the closet light off?
assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 04:56:33; Citizenfive: I'd bet on Bitcoin's security (code-wise) over Tor or anything else, just because of that
assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 01:17:25; Citizenfive: Right now, too few users of the WoT know how to use it *properly*, so it's not super important to me at this time. When that changes, I will use it.
assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 05:12:49; ascii_lander: mircea_popescu: ;;google ender wiggin << mega-b00k by o. s. card
mircea_popescu: current theory being that this is the absolutely only interaction usians have with elitism, and so they love it for their own starvation, not for its (mostly absent) literary merits
☟︎ mircea_popescu: much like romanians read supermarket catalogues above anything because OMG THEY HAVE ITEMS IN THEM!!1
assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 05:16:18; ben_vulpes: 'cto', some form of shartup
mircea_popescu: dun think a half-marketable chick exists west-side that doesn't have her little court all through hs.
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42693 @ 0.00032231 = 13.7604 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31907 @ 0.00032421 = 10.3446 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 05:20:33; ascii_lander: ben_vulpes: 'Fareweel, ye dungeons dark and strong, / Fareweel, Fareweel tae thee. / MacPherson's time will nae be lang / On yonder gallows tree. / Sae rantin'ly, sae wantonly / Sae dauntin'ly gaed he / He played a sprig and danced a jig / Below the gallows tree.' (™) (R)
assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 05:33:17; ben_vulpes: stahp ascii_lander i cannot spare the time for learning russian
mircea_popescu: (this is funny because russian sucks enough the speakers'd use "learns" for "teaches").
davout: mod6: but, what was your first thought when not seeing a light switch in the closet?
mircea_popescu: "hey! john! did you hook up the bathroom light to the door ?"
davout: "doctor, my wife takes herself for a fridge, it's very problematic!"
davout: "the light keeps me awake when she sleeps with her mouth open"
gribble: BTCChina BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 221.203542, Best ask: 221.243892, Bid-ask spread: 0.04035, Last trade: 221.243892, 24 hour volume: 158154.71850000, 24 hour low: 220.583766, 24 hour high: 224.720448, 24 hour vwap: 222.971805945
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 221.06, Best ask: 221.07, Bid-ask spread: 0.01000, Last trade: 221.07, 24 hour volume: 18446.48956489, 24 hour low: 219.91, 24 hour high: 224.16, 24 hour vwap: None
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28421 @ 0.0003174 = 9.0208 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41279 @ 0.00031509 = 13.0066 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: Is that what I'm missing on the day 2 tour?
mircea_popescu: lol naw. tho stan doth have a way with the gypsy girls.
yang: I browsed to the website of bitcoin-assets, but there is no explanation what an asset is, can someone clarify it for me ?
yang: and what is assbot pasting like [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41279 @ 0.00031509 = 13.0066 BTC [-]
☟︎ fluffypony: yang: it's a chat room, initially the purpose was to discuss Bitcoin-based assets (eg. stocks and securities)
yang: maybe a short intro/description wouldn't hurt on the website...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59450 @ 0.00031799 = 18.9045 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: <yang> maybe a short intro/description wouldn't hurt on the website... < notrly open to the general public.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25793 @ 0.00032421 = 8.3623 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 166907 @ 0.00032829 = 54.7939 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: i guess if anyone's looking for malware hosting, ask whoever owns 43.255.190 *
☟︎ mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo what's the idea there, test works so well they just can't keep feeding the control group sugar pills, move everyone on drug ?
BingoBoingo: Well antibodies so s/sugarpill/saline but yeah
BingoBoingo: Basically a type of lung cancer... pretty well beaten and whay has computer science done this decade?
BingoBoingo: The general direction this particular kind of thing being this efficacious suggests... Oncology could get very interesting.
BingoBoingo: Probably various immune system nastiness and hypowalletemia
BingoBoingo: But it is hard to say when hacking so much bio-weird
BingoBoingo: The way a drug like this get priced is $maxint
BingoBoingo: And since its injectable at first there's costs associated with the clinic, and any other drugs it gets cocktailed up with...
BingoBoingo: This is the sort of drug that if it is effective could make Obolacare very expensive-er.
☟︎ BingoBoingo: Of course how well it works over time still needs to be seen.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92215 @ 0.00032148 = 29.6453 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: php 5.4 decides to combine E_ALL and E_STRICT. because why the fuck not. next thing you know, half terrabyte of logs expounding on FUCKTARDED php 5.4 "warnings"
mircea_popescu: and sincer we're on it, you don't want "E_ALL ^E_STRICT" as logic would seem to indicate, you want "E_ALL & ~E_STRICT"
ascii_lander: mircea_popescu: i can quote the entire thing likewise, but minus the peculiar orthographic scottishisms
assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 10:27:24; mircea_popescu: current theory being that this is the absolutely only interaction usians have with elitism, and so they love it for their own starvation, not for its (mostly absent) literary merits
assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 10:29:40; mircea_popescu: dun think a half-marketable chick exists west-side that doesn't have her little court all through hs.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66650 @ 0.0003292 = 21.9412 BTC [+]
davout: mircea_popescu: also this whole thing is written in rails
davout: they're looking for a remote senior rails dev
☟︎ mircea_popescu: from what i hear this thing exists in the terms that the derp "in charge" hired some indians off fiverr to make him a fb clone, paid fiddy bucks
mircea_popescu: and has been going around ever since prtetendinglike it's "a company" and "tech"
mircea_popescu: zero op ability, as shown for instance by the fact that... the list you see is freshly scrapped.
davout: so you just basically crawled URLs to enumerate users? they're using the default URL scheme, pretty retarded
davout: for (x in 0 to $maxint) { parse '/user/x' } <<< that how you did it?
assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 12:29:19; mircea_popescu: i guess if anyone's looking for malware hosting, ask whoever owns 43.255.190 *
assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 12:54:16; BingoBoingo: This is the sort of drug that if it is effective could make Obolacare very expensive-er.
ascii_lander: BingoBoingo: if it works, for some value of works - i'll get nationalized; the firm will go bust, naturally; and it will be declared 'bad luck.'
davout: ascii_lander: come, we have wifi
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41400 @ 0.00032099 = 13.289 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49250 @ 0.00032938 = 16.222 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61900 @ 0.00033069 = 20.4697 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43200 @ 0.00033168 = 14.3286 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17800 @ 0.00032861 = 5.8493 BTC [-]
assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 02:35:20; mircea_popescu: this guy is like forever young.
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell ben_vulpes the wedding kicks off this eve... will report back tomorrow. how's the irl cult ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78200 @ 0.00032458 = 25.3822 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25863 @ 0.00033028 = 8.542 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44600 @ 0.00033096 = 14.7608 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21346 @ 0.00032344 = 6.9042 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50085 @ 0.00032034 = 16.0442 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66442 @ 0.00033231 = 22.0793 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68405 @ 0.00033346 = 22.8103 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9600 @ 0.00033347 = 3.2013 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50950 @ 0.0003188 = 16.2429 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33850 @ 0.0003188 = 10.7914 BTC [-]
cazalla: juicy bit "By way of introduction, we are acting as legal advisors to Bitcoinist.net Ltd. and Máté Tokay in relation to their negotiations with GAW Miners regarding the planned asset purchase."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44302 @ 0.00032181 = 14.2568 BTC [+]