gernika: BingoBoingo any tools you use to analyze running bitcoind procs on OpenBSD?
gernika: Something like dtrace or sysdig would be nice to have :(
gernika: ktrace/kdump seems to be the closest match, fyi
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19600 @ 0.00071923 = 14.0969 BTC [+]
danielpbarron: working, and playing Eulora when I can find the time
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30236 @ 0.00071923 = 21.7466 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16770 @ 0.0007157 = 12.0023 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84517 @ 0.00072941 = 61.6475 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: Logged on 27-09-2015 16:16:35; punkman: " If I was to keep him from kidnapping those two women, which he'd do if I didn't turn myself over to him, I was going to have to turn myself over to the DOJ folks, so they could take the appropriate action to protect those people, and maybe even figure out just who this sick fuck was, and stop him." << cool story bro
mircea_popescu: shit reads like any re-narrative attempt from none too bright 12 yos trying to fit in.
assbot: Logged on 27-09-2015 22:06:11; trinque: I've written a nice little parser in ply that'll handle that and also messages to interact with the buy/sell board.
mircea_popescu: So, right there, VW diesel owners have a pretty ironclad case for what boils down to speculative financial compensation: the difference between what the cars 'would have been worth' if this flaw hadn't been exposed and what they *are* worth -- which is zero, if only because no one in their right mind would buy one (and in many cases reale may now be forbidden by law) << what ?
mircea_popescu: i would very much in my right mind buy one. what the fuck do i care about all the bullshit ?
☟︎ mircea_popescu: "So those vehicles -- 11 million of them and counting -- are damaged goods. They will *never* be able to meet environmental regulations. That means either (a) they'll need to be taken off the road or (b) environmental regulations will need to be rewritten to include a carve-out for VW diesel owners." << or ship them to pakistan.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: anyway, vw takes the cake for fighting the insanity of statal overbearing. and the more insane it gets, the more of this will happen, until eventually maintaining even the pretense of "law enforcement" will become ridiculous.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, this is the path : expose the state to millions of unknown cases. trillions, if at all possible.
mircea_popescu: let it fuck the dilemma of "do we grandfather or what now!".
mircea_popescu: fascinating that the author manages to go through all that without at any point rising to the very moderate level of awareness that's included in the observation that "all this retarded pseudo-legalistic bullshit just ate its own tail, and now ill have to go. vw shot it in the head, thanks god."
☟︎ mircea_popescu: no, he's derping on and on about patent fucking nonsense such as "Conceivably, one could compound that by overlaying 'network'-oriented jurisdictional issues -- for example, the use of telecom systems to transmit information (from software to managerial decisions) with an intent to deceive and defraud."
BingoBoingo can't wait for the kits to make a VW Golf "Roll Coal" come out
BingoBoingo: It would be adorable. A little hatchback putting out soot with the best of them
BingoBoingo: Wait, nobody is dying now? WHat happened to no one?
VariaVarietatis: oh i'm sloppy tonight surfing the blogs made me want to chat
VariaVarietatis: BingoBoingo: noticed you liked baseball did Babe Ruth really point out where he was going to hit homeruns before batting is that just a folk tail?
BingoBoingo: VariaVarietatis: Well it happened at least once.
VariaVarietatis: was wonder if a phone screen could cuase a seizure with right flicker and heartbeat thats why I was looking for mircea_popescu
BingoBoingo: <VariaVarietatis> was wonder if a phone screen could cuase a seizure with right flicker and heartbeat thats why I was looking for mircea_popescu << In people with photosensitive epilepsy 4-6 hertz of flashing can trigger seizures
cazalla: VariaVarietatis, read about his divorce?
VariaVarietatis: I never noticed marijuana have any sort of effect like that
BingoBoingo: Well the point is more likely to sell fear to the children
BingoBoingo: Or else they'd be selling them for recreational use
mircea_popescu checks the eth prices, the only thing that can cheer up a man in these dark times.
mircea_popescu: oshit, look at that, in other news trump is no longer shorter odds than 1 on bitbet.
mircea_popescu: question : how many days of 15% straight drops does it need for ethereum to reach 0 ?
mircea_popescu: answer : ETHEREUM CAN NEVER REACH ZERO BECAUSE IT IS A TECHONOLOLOLOL
mircea_popescu: and who's alienhead, buterin or trump ? tbf trump's head is mostly local, with the exception of the venusian hairpiece of course.
mircea_popescu: we prolly just don't understand 20something yo aesthetics.
assbot: Procedural City Generation in Python - Documentation — procedural_city_generation 0.1 documentation ... (
http://bit.ly/1KZNPeQ )
mircea_popescu: "If you set aside the sociopolitical factors beyond your control, you’re left with daily inconveniences of fragmented infrastructure like electricity cuts of up to 6 hours, regular water shortages in the summer and fall, and an average internet speed of 3.11 Mbps – to put things slightly in perspective, estimates abound that doubling Lebanon’s
BingoBoingo: Even Weev figured out he had to gtfo Lebanon
punkman: "Ten years ago, however, very few Lebanese were starting high-risk, fail-fast, profits-after-5-years companies like their present-day entrepreneur counterparts. “We didn’t have this culture of entrepreneurship,”"
mircea_popescu: so basically lebanon is the new hope in the usg middle east desperation ?
mircea_popescu: it won't fucking work, lebanon is the equivalent of new mexico. about as defensible as a bowl of china.
punkman: maybe UAE is a better lebanon
cazalla: that lebanese chicken ain't too bad though
mircea_popescu: hahaha the saudis have had all the ustardism they can stand for.
BingoBoingo: <punkman> dubai is kinda startup-y << First rule of being a start-up-y place is high rent and cost of living. Burns the capital faster.
mircea_popescu: dubai itself is one major arab startup in the hotel industry.
mircea_popescu: he's like a latter day george costanza this dude, "he never quit". just hjas a great sense of humour.
punkman: "when you poop in the Burj Khalifa, that waste is actually trucked out of the city. Trucked out of the city! " << creates jobs
punkman: "a full building with 35,000 people would produce 7 tons of poop per day, plus all the additional wastewater for showers, brushing your teeth and so on, totaling up to 15 tons per day of wastewater."
mircea_popescu: if you don't make enough out of 35k schmucks to pay for one tanker truck you'rfe in trouble.
mircea_popescu: however. i do not think i EVER showered in less than a cubic meter of water. if people are half-like me, we're talking 17k tons a day, not 15.
mircea_popescu: and if you do the math, the per-capita water coming out of 15 tons would be under half a liter. ie, not even enough to drink.
punkman: ton of water per shower? how many hours does that take?
punkman: that'd have to be a pretty big shower hose
mircea_popescu: How many gallons of water does an average 10 minute shower use?
mircea_popescu: askville.amazon.com/...water...shower/AnswerViewer.do?...
mircea_popescu: If your house was built in (<1980 is 5-7, 1981-1991 is 3.5, 1992> is 2.5) the standard flow for showerheads then was 5-7/3.5/2.5 gallons per minute.
mircea_popescu: the future never came to me. i generally get 7 to 10, and a coupla hundred galons is, if you do the math, just about one ton.
mircea_popescu: (and random discussion YET AGAIN undercovers the well lied about ustardian poverty. hey random schmuck, did you know your DAD could afford 5x the water that may be wasted on your stupid head ? forged granpa.)
☟︎ cazalla: no doubt mircea_popescu has a commando 450
punkman: I got two m^3 tanks, they tend to last for a few days
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 710 @ 0.00478583 = 3.3979 BTC [+] {6}
punkman: "There is a serious amount of press focused on issues related to Nazi-era forced art sales from Jewish owners during the 1930s and 1940s. There is a general art market fear of the possibility of Nazi-looted art and whole provenance departments have grown up in museums, auction houses, law firms, etc to deal with the possibility that there might be a claim from heirs to any bit of art."
shinohai: Next they shall endorse TradeFortress' newest empire, with plenty of donations.
BingoBoingo: <shinohai> Next they shall endorse TradeFortress' newest empire, with plenty of donations. << Again
davout: thanks for the comments on the remittance 'rfc'
assbot: Logged on 25-09-2015 00:33:51; mircea_popescu:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-09-2015#1284827 << he has a point. the notion of putting
http in there but then going "The settlement part isn’t covered by the document, for the pretty simple reason that settlement is a business matter, not a technical challenge. It would also vastly complicate everything." is pretty wild.
davout: re jurov's comments suggesting an mpex-style API, there's a slot for signed receipts in the returned JSON
davout: you can use
https without necessarily relying on the PKI
davout: the advantage of the mpex-style API is that everything is "receipt'ified" by default
mircea_popescu: generally people tend to create their own private tunnels.
davout: tbh i don't think there's that much difference between "I use an
https API of which I've validated the cert fingerprint, and include GPG-signed receipts in the responses themselves" vs. "I wrap everything in GPG"
davout: i'll think about it some more
mircea_popescu: for reasons discussed here on occasion you won't want to expose automatically generated signed matter in plain text.
davout: would you have a link to one of these threads at hand?
assbot: Logged on 06-08-2015 22:09:02; mircea_popescu:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-08-2015#1228030 << to expound on this for the log readership : it is not trivial but definitely feasible to cause any running implementation of asymmetric cryptography to leak key bits if it is possible to direct encrypted matter at it in an automatic fashion and have live access to the results somehow. this theoretical fact is practically verified for pgp, and
davout: conclusion being "don't echo stuff back" if I read this correctly
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35500 @ 0.00072693 = 25.806 BTC [-]
davout: "let's give a bunch of five years old some charts and crayons, see what trends they can come up with"
mircea_popescu: i believe this is true by now for the average business.
mircea_popescu: pretty much every groupon "customer" is in this situation.
mircea_popescu: certainly most "vc" funds are spending more on "the internet" than they will ever make back.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24258 @ 0.00072684 = 17.6317 BTC [-] {3}
davout: looks a bit like bitcoin miners voting for BIPs
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38100 @ 0.00073092 = 27.8481 BTC [+] {3}
davout: as if someone still cares about hearn's opinion
Naphex: Invites Speakers Mike Hearn, Vinumeris, "Challenges in securing digital cash"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14000 @ 0.00072503 = 10.1504 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25494 @ 0.00073047 = 18.6226 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2751 @ 0.00073103 = 2.0111 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49046 @ 0.00073104 = 35.8546 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40450 @ 0.00073104 = 29.5706 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45057 @ 0.00073181 = 32.9732 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17950 @ 0.00072899 = 13.0854 BTC [-] {3}
trinque: "First of all, it is indeed true that the foundation???s finances are limited" << anditsgone.jpg
BingoBoingo: Oh shit! Expenses of 410,000 CHF a month and only 200,000 Swisscoin on their balance sheet.
kakobrekla: how many lamborghinis in their lamborghini account?
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 125100 @ 0.00072078 = 90.1696 BTC [-] {7}
BingoBoingo: kakobrekla: Prolly 2, though they may be Ferrari people
BingoBoingo: kakobrekla: I don't think they actually have any functional cars in their livery though. They prolly tried converting them to run on an alternative fuel and got butthurt when the Ether ended up detonating in their fuel line.
punkman: ben_vulpes: sure sad, but I don't see that derpy rails "devs" would make anything better if they chanced upon better tools
assbot: Logged on 28-09-2015 06:01:03; mircea_popescu: i would very much in my right mind buy one. what the fuck do i care about all the bullshit ?
ascii_field: anything less than that, won't keep vw alive
ascii_field: (how many will pakistan buy ~at the current price~ ?)
trinque: so is she saying she should be elected, or executed?
ascii_field: trinque: depends on whether you are a terrurrrist
mike_c: holy shit it's down to 1800 btc? what did they start with, 30k?
mike_c: what was that stupid multi-sig address they used..
mike_c: blog post: "how to blow 31k btc in a year"
BingoBoingo: FUCKING COCKSUCKING PEDONIGGERS FUNDING THIS RETARD
BingoBoingo: In other news craptop running a Stator build is now up to September 11th
mike_c: however this time around he doesn't seem to be publicizing the address that 16k bitcoin is stored in..
mike_c: trying to contribute with bitcoin results in a unique address being generated for your donation
BingoBoingo: mike_c: Ah, so they learned they don't want people to see their spends anymoar
mike_c: and/or they aren't even pretending to have the coin this time.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8150 @ 0.00071846 = 5.8554 BTC [-]
gabriel_laddel: "We’ve been doing this for 20 years. We should have this by now. It should work, it should be pluggable and agnostic, and it should do everything right — so if you threw away the web gui, it would look like something a very tidy sysadmin set up by hand, not autogenerated sludge.
gabriel_laddel: Instead, we stack layer after layer of additional convoluted crap on top of what we’ve already got because we don’t know how to fix it. Instead, we flit constantly from Thin to Mongrel to Passenger to Heroku to Bitnami to Docker to whatever new way to deploy trivial apps came out yesterday. Instead, we obsess over adding better Sass integration to our frameworks.
gabriel_laddel: And I’m really not picking on Ruby, or Rails, or this particular app. I hate deploying my own web software, because there are so many parts all over the system that only barely know about each other, but if any of them fail then the whole shebang stops working. I have at least five things just running inside tmux right now, because at least I can read the logs and restart them easily.
gabriel_laddel: This is terrible and we should all be ashamed. No wonder PHP is so popular. How am I supposed to tell a new web developer that this is what they have to look forward to?"
gabriel_laddel: I love that these people *never* question the god-given axiom "all GUI development must be done on 'the web'"
gabriel_laddel: Bahaahahah the 2nd comment is from Joe Armstrong (created Erlang) and reduces to "yeah, I dunno".
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel: but i need to render this webview in a microsoft word plugin
ben_vulpes: 'cause i suuuure as shit ain't writing any more code than is necessary than to pry mword open to execute my "portable code" (as $newclient's IT dept refers to...everything)
ben_vulpes: getting my fingers into 20-year infrastructure investment optimizations
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2759 @ 0.00071863 = 1.9827 BTC [+]
phf: this goes back to tom knight and the lisp machine koan. you can't substitute understanding, and every piece of your stack where your understanding is limited by "stuff is happening i think" is going to bite you in the ass. specifically you can't take an opaque blob that barely runs on dev's machine and expect it to cleanly deploy, and no amount of container is going to change that.
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10241 @ 0.00071863 = 7.3595 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46731 @ 0.00071526 = 33.4248 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24349 @ 0.00071438 = 17.3944 BTC [-]
pete_dushenski: noah smith ('noahpinions') continues to unintentionally entertain :
pete_dushenski: "What if the rich get richer because they know how to invest their money more effectively? New research shows that this may be a factor behind the rise in inequality."
pete_dushenski: "Differences in education are dangerous because unsophisticated people generally don’t realize they’re unsophisticated."
pete_dushenski: "As society’s average level of sophistication goes up, information-driven inequality may increase. This will happen if informational advantages build on each other -- the more you know, the better you understand how to learn more. If that’s the case, then educating the general populace about finance might actually exacerbate inequality, instead of correcting it."
pete_dushenski: lulz. ergo, we're not going to teach personal finance in skool because it's unfair !
pete_dushenski: ben + pete's skool will most definitely teach finance ftr
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41500 @ 0.0007312 = 30.3448 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: Logged on 28-09-2015 19:23:52; kakobrekla: how many lamborghinis in their lamborghini account?
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu "Ethereum now actually exists, and those who were lucky enough to take up Mircea Popescu’s offer to buy ETH from him that he doesn’t have at a price of $0.12 a piece are welcome to try their best to collect." << from ethblogthing
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Just typical fall drama season
pete_dushenski: to paraphrase the simpsons comic book guy : best. fall. ever.
mircea_popescu: watching club fed try to dig itself out of the pile of fake bitcoin auction and all that surrounding fraud, on top which is piled a layer of lying to jury every which way to cover up for actually criminal "investigator", on top of which is another layer of lying every which way to protect his co-conspirators, which are now coming to light...
mircea_popescu: hey, if the usg "law enforcement" hires some kickass pr it might even catch up to the sinaloa cartel by 2016.
mircea_popescu: but so far they're in there with "arkan's tigers" and whatnot two bit thugs.
mircea_popescu: should be a pretty lulzy showdown, once they try and "prosecute" someone who's not hired straight from central casting.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field> anything less than that, won't keep vw alive <<< for my political needs a dead vw is much better than a live one.
mircea_popescu: <mike_c> holy shit it's down to 1800 btc? what did they start with, 30k? << "30k".
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22600 @ 0.00071852 = 16.2386 BTC [-]
assbot: BitBet - The ETH scam won't see 2016 :: 52.17 B (28%) on Yes, 134.11 B (72%) on No | closing in 2 months 4 days | weight: 84`582 (100`000 to 10`000) ... (
http://bit.ly/1OCUQVB )
mircea_popescu: the budget of the entire scamolade is ~150 btc, and i doubt they're actually willing to burn all of it in support of this paycoin.
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski at least he could have the commo nfucking decency to make a new nick, like every dumbass / scammer before him.
mircea_popescu: jewish mothers have a saying, something like, "stick to being honest, you're too dumb to be crooked."
mircea_popescu: i guess derpy amherst dude could have benefited from jewish mother.
pete_dushenski: "16k" << with new address for every donation. lest inquiring minds look, see, and call bullshit
assbot: Logged on 28-09-2015 06:09:56; mircea_popescu: fascinating that the author manages to go through all that without at any point rising to the very moderate level of awareness that's included in the observation that "all this retarded pseudo-legalistic bullshit just ate its own tail, and now ill have to go. vw shot it in the head, thanks god."
pete_dushenski: the size of the vw legal problem is too obviously too large for derpy bureaucrats with concrete boots to handle
pete_dushenski: so they really have no choice but to hand-wave the 'problems' away
mircea_popescu: no but seriously. at what point does the idea form that hey, minuscule "pollutants" out of extant cars aren't the problem. stop giving so many derps cars!
mircea_popescu: it's clearly a square. one edge has been optimized pretty well. tiome to do the other one ?
mircea_popescu: <pete_dushenski> mircea_popescu "Ethereum now actually exists" << what the fuck does this even mean ?
mircea_popescu: last i heard ethereum is today in a state that is generally worse than not existing at all.
mircea_popescu: somehow it managed to be worse off as "existoware" than it was 6 months ago as 6 months late vaporware.
pete_dushenski: this side of the pollution equation is being helped immensely by the crushing student debt that 'social scientards' are coming out of school with. still have to live at home. ride bike, take bus. what choice do they have but make being poor fashionable ?
mircea_popescu: how about make being poor very fucking sad, so they have SOME incentive to stop lying to themnselves about it.
pete_dushenski: best thing the post-secondary ustardian system ever did. reduce pollution. with debt !
thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: only the stupid have student debt, why pay for something you can't afford, or are not cool enough to get someone else to pay for?
thestringpuller: I blame Obama for all the "everyone should go to college" bullshit.
mircea_popescu: yeah, by filling the country with a bunch of retarded assholes you wholeheartedly feel like driving over.
thestringpuller: i think the kid eating glue is worse off now with that mantra
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski the epic moment where a kenyan and a chinese agreed that "the us can't pull itself out of the shit without chinese support".
mircea_popescu: possibly most unamerican thing ever seen, heard or thought.
mircea_popescu: but hey, the party's over. all that's left of america are the fly shat pictures of granpa on the wall.
thestringpuller: the entire point of college these days is to get laid it seems, which I dunno why you'd pay 10k a year just to get laid.
mircea_popescu: to add to the -15% yest and the 10% day before that and in general...
pete_dushenski: halfway through 'django unchained' atm. if the locals in derptown texas couldn't imagine 'nigger on a horse', how would they react to 'nigger sells your papy's farm to chinaman' ?
thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: probably the same way people reacted to Dave Chappelle shooting a slave owner on camera in a skit.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu 0.001 looking more likely by the minute
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: it all falls out of tvom
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller was that the black white surpremacist skit or another ?
btcdrak: the blood moon has come true for so many assets today
assbot: Logged on 28-09-2015 22:17:58; pete_dushenski: winterkorn should get nobel peace prize
mircea_popescu: looks more like chappelle shooting a confused farmhand.
mircea_popescu: dunno if a peace prize so much. how about 40 virgins and a burning bed or what was it ?
trinque: chapelle did not deliver in that skit
pete_dushenski: !v assbot:pete_dushenski.rate.punkman.2:be692bd7a8864924c2526b0f2b72dd90baebc89bf10b131ff925358764b9be24
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for punkman from 1 to 2 with note: posts the best links. therealbitcoin contributor.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> no but seriously. at what point does the idea form that hey, minuscule "pollutants" out of extant cars aren't the problem. stop giving so many derps cars! << The used car market is finally starting to regain some price sanity after the "cash for clunkers" supply contraction. The confinscatadors may be planning to do a repeat except with more "fuck you" and less "$5000" rebate
mircea_popescu: the more they do of that, the less rope they have left.
mircea_popescu: this is the problem of "regimes", let's call it. a quest for oxigen, underwater. there's no more oxygen being added.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21900 @ 0.00072565 = 15.8917 BTC [+]
assbot: Dunning_Krugerrands comments on New Ethereum blog post from Vitalik Buterin: The Evolution of Ethereum ... (
http://bit.ly/1OCY5wi )
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> the more they do of that, the less rope they have left. << How they would do it is probably mandate the titles to the vehicles be converted to "salvage titles" or some other wankery that would make the cars illegal to be registered to drive on the road.
mircea_popescu: the overarching point being that whatever paper dickery they choose makes exactly 0 difference in the field.
mircea_popescu: there is no way to "fix things" by finding the right way to fold the paper.
BingoBoingo: Of course. There may be wankery in some places like California where the police are enlisted to pull over and impound such vehicles when spotted driving, but it is retards all the way down
pete_dushenski: "Part of the initiative is to create around 20 cross-border Special Economic Zones. Khorgos, on the border with Kazakhstan, serves as a cautionary example: two years after the go-ahead China has built a city consisting of a number of multi-story shopping centers in the desert. In one of those buildings, for example, there are roughly one hundred shops, each one of them selling exactly the same product: fur coats."
mircea_popescu: "Short summary from clicking the link: this dude claimed to know Ethereum would fail, so during the crowd sale he offered Ether at a huge discount to the official price. Since nobody took him up on this amazing offer of selling something he didn't have at a price cheaper than the price people were willing to pay to people who actually had Ether to sell, he declared victory.
mircea_popescu: Since Ether went live he has disappeared and refused to discuss the issue anymore, and it is unlikely anyone could've collected from him at any point.
mircea_popescu: course, not nearly as heroic as "dude that has a bunch of other altcoins anal rings around his penis said ethereum's no different, and he had an open offer we mostly didn't take, and now it turns out it's no different and let's not mention the bitbet bet on the matter if possible."
pete_dushenski: i still wouldn't want to live in nyc, but not least of all because it'd make me feel pretty poor. like alf poor.
BingoBoingo: Poor pete_dushenski can't live in NYC because he'd feel poor, can't live in Detroit or St Louis because he'd feel like food.
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo haven't been to either detroit or stl, but the former holds some appeal to me, at least as a tourist.
pete_dushenski: i mean, who wouldn't want to see a real live honest-to-goodness usian dystopian ghost town to see if the future is really that shitty or whether it's in fact quite liveable
BingoBoingo: Well, the problems emerge less from the touristing and more from the activities of daily living necessary as an urban dweller
pete_dushenski: and by 'the future' i don't mean 'the future everywhere' but rather a great many north american cities, particularly those focused on a single industry.
BingoBoingo: Prolly most North American cities have to look forward to: "It is the latest robbery in St. Louis in which the victim was shot even after complying with a robber's demands."
BingoBoingo: Most of the failing US urban areas have some sort of civilized carve out in the Downtown area, but they are becoming increasingly indefensible
BingoBoingo: "Mayor Francis Slay said Monday he would give Dotson "unlimited overtime" to put more police on the streets. Slay reiterated his goal to hire more police officers, but warned it may not be enough to combat what he called "a higher level of boldness" by criminals who are carrying more and higher-caliber weapons and who have little regard for consequences."
BingoBoingo: Philip Cook, a Duke University public policy and economics professor who has examined crime trends, said most gun robberies do not lead to violence but that perpetrators sometimes injure or kill to eliminate witnesses to a crime. "And in some cases it may have been purely gratuitous violence — what I called recreational violence," Cook said.
pete_dushenski: recreational violence has a long history amongst bank robbers and other 'pros'. highly effective means of persuation and, hell, gratification.
BingoBoingo: Of course and if they get caught in this situation they are just "taking one for the team" in the name of refining their machine for extracting value from Whitey.
cazalla: in other words, don't make a big deal outta it spider
phf: fwiw lafond's opinion is particularly negatively biased since he lives in a city with such seemingly intentionally crippled police force. ramsey for example, former dc commissioner and now philly, has been pretty efficient at containment.
phf: (i'm saying lafond because that's where i assume most people here are getting their racial relationship information from)
BingoBoingo: <phf> (i'm saying lafond because that's where i assume most people here are getting their racial relationship information from) << I've been getting most of mine from KMOX
BingoBoingo: Lafond just makes St Louis seem less uniquely bad
phf: i spent a long time biking through north east dc and was friends with a dc cop at umd and i know that north east is hellhole ready to burst. i'd bike during day time and would have old black guys on the street corner go "whacha doin here white boy". but then i moved to philly and ghetto here is not north east nor baltimore by any measure. i can walk up to 69th street or kensington and as long as i'm smart about it, nobody will pay me any at
phf: tention. there's a wide range of ghettos, and those that are there, at the end of the day, how many black of service age is there.
phf: it seems like a particular type of american boogieman
BingoBoingo: St Louis was actually getting a lot nicer before Ferguson. Philly might just lack a rallying event
phf: nicer in a sense that gentrification line was pushed further out, or nicer in a sense that ghettos were becoming better places to live? philly for example has a large muslim community and Ethiopian community that pushing in the ghetto without necessarily turning it into polarising yoga and smoothies yuppie centrals
BingoBoingo: Ghettos were becoming nicer places to travel through, and gentrification was happening in South City as people got tired of insane commutes
BingoBoingo: Property crimes like snatch and grabs out of cars were bigger than ever, but people weren't getting broken as often.