600+ entries in 0.029s
Framedragger: sina: right, re future, i didn't make sense there
Framedragger reading how asciilifeform described the packets, if at all, because forgot
Framedragger: i guess he'd say "read the article [implying read the comments, too]"
Framedragger: let me recall why that is super important lol; but the unpredictability of the auth strings coming from lighthouse is important
Framedragger: because you can predict the future of such a lighthouse, hence craft any number of packets in advance
Framedragger: yeah, so this avoid replay but also sets a limit to how much DoS exposure you have (one of the limits, at least)
Framedragger: i believe this relates to asciilifeform's "traditional challenge-response creates DoS vector". so with a lighthouse auth string, one more important point is that a particular auth string cannot be reused.
Framedragger: (btw the challenge strings may be in something else than plaintext, all depends on lighthouse and medium)
Framedragger: mircea_popescu had concerns re. "signed", but iirc the concept of "station key" (vs. "mega important owner key") helped there. not sure if entirely resolved, tho
Framedragger: A and B may then decide to enter some different "state" but the general gossipd design is stateless, i.e. there is no session
Framedragger: yes i think so, and note that there is a time window there re. how recent challenge string has to be, to avoid replay. i.e., those strings expire. and yes that's how you send a msg to B iirc
Framedragger: so in that sense it's not your traditional challenge-response. again, sorry if repeating
Framedragger: ("well ok, let me generate this one just for you, and this for just for you", vs. "i'll generate this many auth strings per time unit, and distribute them to this set of destinations (or "shit them out via radio"))
Framedragger: so there's no way to DoS peer B with "hi plox to send me an auth string, i'm totally legit non sybil node"
Framedragger: the point is that auth strings are sent regardless of whether the connecting peer (A) wants them
Framedragger: "in all directions" depends on medium. in radio, it's clear; in packet switched networks, could be a list of broadcast addresses to send auth strings to (constantly), etc
Framedragger: note the important aspect which lighthouse introduces: constant stream of auth strings, "in all directions"
Framedragger: yeah, though note that the lighthouse may for all intents be node C there
Framedragger: tl;dr asciilifeform described a way for peer A to provide a challenge-response to peer B in a way which would not require any communication from B, hence not creating a DoS vector
Framedragger: did you read the part about lighthouse based challenge, though?
Framedragger: (i know it's a hella lot of comments under the newer article but iirc his "DoS magnet!!" points are addressed there)
Framedragger: sina: fwiw (he can speak for himself but to save you time), asciilifeform does not like sessions [ever|anymore], and considers them ugly beasts which won't have a place in his gossipd bed
☟︎ Framedragger: (but then, the newer article clearly states "This is an up-to-date draft specification for gossipd", so i'm not too sure about that, either)
Framedragger: sina: to clarify (hopefully lol), that ^ is for all intents and purposes outdated. asciilifeform did say "original mp algo". that said, i'll agree if you say "you guys have a documentation problem omg"
Framedragger: (which makes sense, hence lighthoused proposal)
Framedragger: afaict gossipd model assumes that some rsa keys had been exchanged out-of-band. traditional challenge-response has been constantly critiqued by asciilifeform via "it's a DoS vector" argument (sorry if too curt, am in bed)
Framedragger: i even raised a (nonsensical) "but-t-t time complexiti!" concern re this
Framedragger: in fact that's a question i asked in comments, sina
Framedragger: right, eternal rsa gen process, rsa'd automatically, etc
Framedragger: god it's like quoting talmud at this point :D (i mean the long comments etc)
Framedragger: asciilifeform: sure, but (plz don't vomit from use of keyword) there should be a way to onion-rsa them, too (A encrypts to C's key, then encrypts to B's key and tells B to relay to C which is currently offline, or w/e)
Framedragger got confused from article, too (hence not opining re gossipd currently)
Framedragger: in fact i'd imagine that gossipd should ideally allow for arbitrary end to end encryption, would be up to operator?
Framedragger recalls mircea_popescu's archaic use of "for" in context of gossipd
Framedragger: intermediary peers won't be able to decrypt message in the latter model, asciilifeform
Framedragger: i mean, scriba was supposed to have an mp emulator chatbot, so i'll keep it in mind :)
Framedragger: btw maersk (some related ports) is down due to new "ransomware" (orange website says it's the same nsa "eternalblue" windows vuln)
☟︎ Framedragger: calling it: "serious linux desktop RCE discovered related to emojis" (memory mismanagement or related) (exact words in quote may differ)
Framedragger: yeah i guess that's a nice thing with deedbot, it doesn't need secret key for most of the stuff incl. challenges..
Framedragger: erlehmann: i admit i didn't get the reference re id (some event in year 1488?)
Framedragger: you know you're in for some fun when the key is named "multiverseid" lol
Framedragger: erlehmann: critique of aristotele's metaphysics in game, i like it
Framedragger: why, i thought this was a *cultured* sort of place :D
Framedragger: came with one mr Jawad, a local housekeeper and guiding spirit (those medinas are *complex*)
Framedragger: i did rent out a large whole riad in fez through it, no regrets there
Framedragger: i can see how more experience is needed to properly attune these sensors, hm
Framedragger: aha, ok; false assumptions about the breadth of possibility (over-extrapolating the horizon of possibility, something)
Framedragger: something about trying to find local issues vs. accepting that there are irreparable general and systemic issues? that's all i got (not that it's not meaningful)
Framedragger: curious to hear about intersection of IT globalism and socialism, not sure, hmm. (may follow-up later, tho)
Framedragger: that said, i think they may have an issue with onslaught of said teenagers. thus far they are coping
Framedragger: (something like, "the side-effects / leaky state of mp that could not have been contained; it crept onto irc" (i had a beer))
Framedragger: have you literally travelled through some jungle, js-of-mp?
Framedragger: irc in plant hut sounds pretty damn l33t, gotta say...
Framedragger: hm notrly, can look later, but nothing pops to mind
Framedragger: yeah, scriba sends `!!up`s if it's not voiced, and then does the `!!v` challenge (but is smart enough to stop spamming once it gets voice)
Framedragger unrelatedly recalls placing orders on mtgox and getting multi-minute+ lags
☟︎ Framedragger: erlehmann: it's the one where (logreaders, spoilers) alien intelligence which is actually intelligent is not conscious, right?