log☇︎
9500+ entries in 0.099s
phf: as BingoBoingo continues living in orcland and his subtle mannerisms lose the imperial edge the locals no longer perceive him as a white sahib, soon attempt to "back to work, nigger" him
phf: mircea_popescu: i have a set of tools like that on top of vpatch/vdiff, but they are entirely expressable as a 5-10 line shell scripts, and their variety is multitude "convert this sha set to keccak set" "see if these two sets press to same" "press all the intermediate states into separate folders" etc. etc. but i think what he's trying to get is a tool that will say "these keccaks are same as these shas so you don't have to reread"
asciilifeform: i can do it with shell ( as quoted from trb experiment list earlier ) easily enuff. but there is also the ~reader~ side, who wants to verify continuity.
asciilifeform: oughta be same procedure as http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-April/000296.html , but in the tool, imho.
mircea_popescu: this is conceivably a useful tool, but imo not properly thought of as "vtron".
phf: asciilifeform: please to clarify, do you mean that you can say run "./vpatch < foo" and if that fails you run it as "./vpatch -t sha < foo". or are you saying "./vpatch < foo" and it attempts to, internally, first keccak then sha?
asciilifeform: srsly, exactly same logic as in existing vtron, with the exception of 'when hashing, try keccak 1st, then sha, THEN compare equality, if found to be the latter, warn user, and if sha not enabled, eggog'
phf: asciilifeform: the approach that came out of last thread was "explicit flag", i.e. -t sha/keccak, but attempting to hash both then choosing one if one succeeds or bail as you suggested is not bad, though dwimy
a111: Logged on 2018-09-19 16:22 mircea_popescu: think of the whole opposability angle, will you. 1. alf : "your summaries suck" 2. bimbo "master, is this true ?" now i'm stuck. i'm not going to do a 3.b. "yes, because i like him" and i can't do a 3.a. "yes, because ~SOMETHING~" as the something's an undefined symbol.
asciilifeform: already hindered in this way, tho, as cost of making the switch
mircea_popescu: now as to new extensions... imo bad idea. there's manifests and things now. ☟︎
asciilifeform: given as its 2d old
asciilifeform: i'm 100% in favour, so long as can use new file extension and not trip over own old patches. ( afaik phf's tool does not marry .vdiff string hardcodedly ? )
mircea_popescu: there was never a time ingenuity, specifically as this almost-endearing-often-infuriating-wilful-blindness was never part of the term.
mircea_popescu: understand how professional medicine is : i am myself, and this fellow is a most eminent specialist in his field, with decades of practice in the us, and in his entire being as perfectly intellectually respectable as i could ever ask for.
asciilifeform: still seems to me that at one time there were engineers. built such things as 'great eastern' steamer etc.
diana_coman: <mircea_popescu> this seems even perfectly reasonable, who wouldn't want to be right, until you understand the undertone. which eminently was "and perfectly willing to put on the adequate blinders for this effect" -> imo that is better expressed as "only interested in not being wrong" - quite different from being interested in being right
diana_coman: ah, as in: in them being what you asked of her? that's fine, sure
diana_coman: tbh if I were to critique her summaries I'd start pretty much from same point as with the 5yo i.e. the way they are know they read as if she doesn't actually have any idea what those terms she uses there mean even at a basic level and she doesn't even flag them as such (i.e. "hey, this afiejif wtf is it???"); to the extent that it all ends up as mechanical re-phrasing, it's quite stupid
asciilifeform: PeterL: as i currently understand : yes. but ideally this simple mechanism would be in the tool, rather than a http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-April/000296.html - style shell hack.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-19 15:19 asciilifeform: if new vtron allows mechanical preservation of ~continuity~ , i.e. i can determine mechanically that a reground tree is in fact same as the old but-for-the-hashes, then all is ok. but if not, this'd be essentially same as throwing past 3rs of historicity away.
mircea_popescu: just because i humiliate her, in this as in so many ways, she has to publish her struggle, dun mean it's somehow categorically different. erryone has piles of "this is what i understand of y"
mircea_popescu: think of the whole opposability angle, will you. 1. alf : "your summaries suck" 2. bimbo "master, is this true ?" now i'm stuck. i'm not going to do a 3.b. "yes, because i like him" and i can't do a 3.a. "yes, because ~SOMETHING~" as the something's an undefined symbol. ☟︎☟︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: by all means, formulate it as "bitch, you're fucking stupid", but formulate it in some manner i can get behind.
asciilifeform: i'ma formulate all subsequent ones as ' s/foo/bar ', as i do for BingoBoingo
asciilifeform: if new vtron allows mechanical preservation of ~continuity~ , i.e. i can determine mechanically that a reground tree is in fact same as the old but-for-the-hashes, then all is ok. but if not, this'd be essentially same as throwing past 3rs of historicity away. ☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: how the fuck else would $crate count as 'free'
asciilifeform: wtf is even the point of lulazon collecting it, if result is exactly same as if i mailed the crate myself
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-19#1851602 << No, haven't done anything as of yet. Still using SHA512 and my vtron. ☝︎
diana_coman: anyways, will wait for mircea_popescu to weigh in on this too; atm I still need to set up the main stuff and then those are params to adjust/set as required
asciilifeform: diana_coman: the 1 thing that still bothers me is that same file extension was kept for new v as for old
diana_coman: asciilifeform, not full as far as I'm aware; there is http://trinque.org/2018/06/02/v-manifest-specification/ re manifest
diana_coman: possibly because I did not yet fully digest the new one (or not as well as old one)
asciilifeform: but why not as convenient, i meant
diana_coman: asciilifeform, I know that pain, honestly; I still trip over this change and I wouldn't even say that I have as convenient a workflow with new tooling as I had with old
asciilifeform: funnily enuff, as recently as '16 we briefly had a finn here, helped me ferret out the amd key thing, but went back into the allconsuming swamp, never heard from again
asciilifeform: certainly nao is ( currently under conversion to a sort of discount bagdad, as i understand )
asciilifeform: i have nfi how, but it all evaporated. and mircea_popescu's hypothesis as as good as any.
asciilifeform: ftr i never grasped why irc is a tcp item to begin with. it aint as if the messages outweigh the available bucket.
asciilifeform: in asciilifeform's head, frontends are filed as 'luxury' at any rate
asciilifeform: imho tcp , if preserved anywhere, oughta live as a lowered-into-pederasty item-only-carried-over-better-protocols or strictly-on-lan, like telnet.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-18#1851334 << i also can't think of a thing that would legitimately need/want to use both tcp and udp as a toplevel thing. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-09-18 16:06 asciilifeform: as for tcp, unixsockets, etc. imho if we ever need these, they oughta live in own separate lib, given as they force somewhat different and gnarlier semantics, they do not belong in 1 gigantic 'kitchen sink' imho
asciilifeform: diana_coman: last (for nao) observation -- 1) it is possible to make the thing 'fancier' in 2 ways -- can make Socket a 'controlled type' ( as i did in mmap, see http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-14#1850368 ) , then it can close itself when going out of scope. i did not do this, as it adds a bit of overhead 2) it is possible to make the lib a 'generic' ( again see horsecocks re how ) , and make udptrons of different packet length runti ☝︎
asciilifeform: as for tcp, unixsockets, etc. imho if we ever need these, they oughta live in own separate lib, given as they force somewhat different and gnarlier semantics, they do not belong in 1 gigantic 'kitchen sink' imho ☟︎
asciilifeform: fwiw in my own experiments, it worx as expected.
mircea_popescu: ada threading still seems as promising as it did weeks ago. few things survive this long lol
mircea_popescu: "as long as the fridge works, why do i need to understand adiabatic cycles! MYSTICAL SCIENTISM CLINTON FOR THE WIN!"
mircea_popescu: "Oh! Before you go, there you are: Floccinaucinihilipilification: The act or habit of describing or regarding something as unimportant, of having no value or being worthless. Doms around the world, might wanna include that one in your dirty talk when trying to be a fancy degrader. Didn't want you to leave without learning something new ;) got extra points if you actually read the whole word." << dude's seriously off in his ow
a111: Logged on 2018-09-18 15:31 mircea_popescu: meanwhile at the lulzfarm, "What do you need to know about me? I'm one hell of a kind. Seriously. You might like me or not, but you'll surely not find anyone as annoying/amazing as me. I consider myself a "mystic scientist" because, what is the supernatural world but unknown knowledge? I'm an engineer, a painter, a thinker, a bookworm, a weirdo, a kinkster, a traveler, a constant horny sensualist."
mircea_popescu: 27yo male. that you will not find anymore as X as. because this is now a thing, 20somethings are distinguishable in that absolute sense.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile at the lulzfarm, "What do you need to know about me? I'm one hell of a kind. Seriously. You might like me or not, but you'll surely not find anyone as annoying/amazing as me. I consider myself a "mystic scientist" because, what is the supernatural world but unknown knowledge? I'm an engineer, a painter, a thinker, a bookworm, a weirdo, a kinkster, a traveler, a constant horny sensualist." ☟︎
asciilifeform: my orig application called for 'no frag', given as already luby, so why also have ??? in the mix ruining the impedance match
mircea_popescu: seems uy to uk as fine as can be had, that's what, 3 intercons.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i suspect that he followed same method as described in his http://ave1.org/2018/gnat-zero-foot-print-take-2-no-c item ( which i suggested a long time ago ), simply take the calls & translate by hand into the linux abi convention
a111: Logged on 2018-09-18 13:17 diana_coman: as I was saying earlier: atm the fixed packet length might clash a bit with what I need but it's not even fully clear it's not *better* to have a fixed packet length anyway
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: better still, no allocations, period. ( as in my item )
diana_coman: asciilifeform, ah, I forgot to mention it explicitly but yes, my tests include ave1's gnat as well as adacore's gnat; this is pretty much for any ada code I test
asciilifeform: incidentally, my lib can be asmed just as readily as ave1 asmed the classical 'all of tcp stack' glue. ( sadly i dun currently have the free hands to do this )
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i already nailed down a format, observe, ip is stored always as native-endian 32bit.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: imho that functionality belongs in a udp lib ( given as it demands knowledge of how ip is represented ) but prolly oughta be a troo ada thing, not a callout. however implementing it would double the mass of the proggy
asciilifeform: my approach to eggogology is same as to rest of unix liquishit -- when possible, imprison it, not bring out, so long as proggy behaves reasonably
asciilifeform: tho it can be debated exactly which length, as i noted in the proggy
diana_coman: as I was saying earlier: atm the fixed packet length might clash a bit with what I need but it's not even fully clear it's not *better* to have a fixed packet length anyway ☟︎
asciilifeform: 2) 'when i ditch unix, the api should continue to make exactly same amt of sense as before'
diana_coman: as it is, the selected minimal set of ops seems ok, except perhaps the fixed message length - I think it's more of a maximum length needed in practice, at least for current version of S.MG protocol
diana_coman: asciilifeform, if I understand your lib correctly, it aims to expose only a strict & minimal set of UDP calls; atm it uses C code for the actual socket part but in principle this layer could be replaced at a later time by some Ada layer while keeping the rest as it is, correct?
diana_coman: asciilifeform, confirmed working nicely with its own tests + adapted client/server test as used previously
asciilifeform: ^ eventually i'd like to rewrite the human-string routines, and get rid of the unix callout there, but imho errything else prolly oughta stay as is.
asciilifeform: as for the classic voice model, i admit that i like the hidden feature where it causes folx to periodically reassert that they still control their key
asciilifeform: aha, same mechanism as trinque presently has for voice filter
asciilifeform: so long as it specifically excludes validly-wot'd folx, i can't see any possibl problem
asciilifeform: strikes me as orthogonal to the voice q, tho
asciilifeform: recall the iptables thread ? bans are not a perma-pill, same derps could just as easily go to war with fleanode's nick reg mechanism, get 9000 clean nicks, neh.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-17#1851024 << 'nonstandard' captchas actually work quite well. ( i have one in the pipeline for my www, which used an ancient heathen service thing that meanwhile died ). there was a famous ru www that had... schoolboy-level integral problems, as 'captcha'. ☝︎
mircea_popescu: noob support needs to be as simple and requiring of as little initiative as possible. and once that's made like that, why am i forcing you to keep an entirely separate model for #trilema ? when the same thing would actually work better in point of fact ?
mircea_popescu: "it's not so much that there's no more pie, as it is we ate the pie." hurr durr, endless infinity engine of unredeemable externalizations.
mircea_popescu: might as well make use of the golums.
trinque: several lisp services using a postgresql as a message queue
mircea_popescu: might actually offer a bot-as-a-service that pms all new joins to the channel a question, and if it doesn't get the answer it doesn't voice them
asciilifeform doesn't grasp who and for what needs yet-another paypal, just as the last N-1 times
asciilifeform: '“While these forms of anti-government activities do not involve violence, they are every bit as insidious and represent a clear and present danger to the economic stability of this country,” she said.' etc
asciilifeform: helps to put current-day crapple into correct perspective. it is a creation of 1990s microshit ( massive dough infusion ), originally to defend against 'monopoly bust'. ended up revived as a replacement 'usg dept of kompyooting' as the original began to show signs of rust
trinque: "so long as we all revere picard it totally isn't hierarchy!"
mircea_popescu: i never perceived him as anything other than or besides https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FM-2030 character. ☟︎
asciilifeform: trinque: my model of s.jobs is as an old-style 'vhs usa' howard hughes sorta figure. 'fuckoff, i'ma sit in my box with filtered air, and do what i want'
trinque: in the same pretense as torvalds, "I tell people no; this is it, right?"
mircea_popescu: not proposing this as a virtue.
mircea_popescu: i suppose "express", as in "genotype expresses in fenotype". though honestly, the more direct sexual reference is deeply adequate. this is a sexual matter, not genetic nor immunological nor etc.
mircea_popescu: or turning out, as in the classical pimping term.
mircea_popescu: in point of fact, historical aristocracy did not enjoy quite as deep or strict cleavage from the peons. yes your count would be "brave" where your peasanrt would be "cowardly", but this is very fucking little when compared to "in alte stiri umoristice, prostalaii astia cu fetlife si-or angajat uameni si-or schimbat saitu', pen'ca li se parea lor cam nedrept ca de ce fac io ce vreau pe-acolo. ca rezultat, mi-or murit tate scri
asciilifeform: hey, plenty of folx manage to 'miss engineering' (e.g. by playing with 'feelings' as child instead of junkyard)
mircea_popescu: in strict professional terms, this is the sort of boon nobody could have even fucking hoped for, as a child. it's one thing to "miss out on bitcoin" because bought food instead of bitcoin in 2012. it is however a substantially different thing to miss out on engineering -- harder to fucking do.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: linux kernel as a going concern prolly has ~months of life in it, if not weeks
asciilifeform: there's no way to get out of memset()/memcpy() or equiv, tho ( and yes a sane iron would give it as an iron primitive )
mircea_popescu: if they don't happen to same, that is as far as anyone knows, sheer coincidence. because in not having said, you lost on being able to know.
ave1: probably closely related to: http://ossasepia.com/2018/08/04/a-collection-of-pearls-as-well-as-ever-sadder-epitaphs/
ave1: this move caused a major headache as suddenly the syscalls seemed to not fill buffers any longer (out of every 6 invocations of getsockname about 4 would fail with empy output).
diana_coman: ave1, if I get the structure right there, you have an empty root package Suckit and then children packages net and types; there seems to be also Suckit.Syscall that I see listed as dep in suckit.types but I can't find the source for?
ave1: For example BSD expects a 1byte length field in the socket address structures (which is then not used as the interface already has a separate length argument)