80700+ entries in 0.046s
a111: Logged on 2018-08-16 15:41 mircea_popescu: "when you read a
text and can distinguish
the absurdities it contains from
the actual sense, you may claim you have an anachronistic understanding of
the matter ; but when you read
the
text and clearly see
the ~necessity~ of
the absurdities,
their fundamentally-required-ness, and
the circumstantialness of
the sense, you may claim meaningful understanding of
the item" as
the witticism goes.
mircea_popescu: in point of fact, newton was alchemist with strong religious notions WHO ALSO DID some math and published some physics observations. but AS A RESULT and FOR
THE PURPOSE of his
teological and alchemical studies.
mircea_popescu: right,
that being
the
trap. "oh, he was physicist" "how do you know
this ?"
Mocky: some is in production and was reviews by
team members, others are more
toolish and have not
Mocky: well ok
then help me understand
this: i have 'book of useful recipes' composed partial of code
that I wrote *with* other intelligent people and partially of
things
that i just just wrote personally
to simplify my own common
tasks and found useful over a long period of
time. is
the latter portion 'man alone' ?
mircea_popescu: the post-clinton america, intellectually as well as factually, is only useful
to orcs&niggers anymore ; and pointedly not any longer useful
to people.
mircea_popescu: THEN at said moment it switched into "here kids, i have
this magical method
to call books into programs now".
these
two aren't at all
the same
thing ; moreover, only one is useful
to actual people.
mircea_popescu: Mocky
this is
the core of
the discussion : if it's orthogonal
then you're doing it wrong, and also using
the wrong symbol.
the fucking point of library is exactly exposure
to intelligent feedback ; NOT "a substitute way of writing code allowing you
to call from books"
Mocky: whether you expose yourself
to inteligent feedback is orthogonal
to if you make some code into a library, no?
mircea_popescu: i like how
topics of conversation in #trilema are meta-stable, one can safely discuss whatever it is
they were discussing without fear
the convo will morph into completely unpredictable somethingelse within a dozen lines.
mircea_popescu: having somebody
there who calls you a moron is unpleasant enough ; but not having
them and by consequence not having any way
to guess just how far off left field you slid... well...
that's actually worse.
mircea_popescu: you're supposed
to share libraries with
thinking people so
they can point out
to you
the obvious stupid.
this is unrelated
to
the "you're not supposed
to fucking call
this as a function, you're supposed
to read it as an algorithm, understant it, and implement it yourself"
mircea_popescu: "the fewer people wielding needles
they encounter,
the more capable
they are of living in, and building upon,
their soap bubble world"
mircea_popescu: Mocky no,
that's a different concern. you familiar with
the "people with needles"
theory ?
BingoBoingo: In other channels, apparently
the skull bird on penis branch made a cumback
mircea_popescu: but "we've all moved on" & "progressed past
that" (thanks hilary!) and so now...
they've got
the problem of prototypes etc.
mircea_popescu: back when someone last
thought about
this, "calling paradigm" wasn't even a problem, because you weren't supposed
to fucking call it, you were supposed
to READ it.
mircea_popescu: which is why
the current "library" model has inherited
the problem of interfacing :
they're literally
trying
to call code from a book and it has problems
Mocky: i agree 'book of useful recipes' useful
to and created by practitioners
mircea_popescu: the expectation was you understand
the algorithms and reimplement
them, much
the way V is designed
to work.
mircea_popescu: Mocky he has a point, "library" is oreilly-ism. before
the free/open source struggle for power, it was rather a
teaching
tool.
Mocky: and speaking of fortran, deskilling also goes hand in hand with
the john backus vision of "algebra of programs" snap
together lego coding
mircea_popescu: Mocky used
to be called "script kiddies",
the sort
that "1. found
this snippet online ; 2.
tried it ; 3. decided it works"
Mocky: the deskilling goes hand in hand with proliferation of library-ism and github-ism. library in reality is
the natural outcome of experienced practitioner isolating code
that has no business freely mixing with other code. for use primarily by same person. but
today
the 99% see library as opaque boxes meant
to pile up and put a little shit pile of new code on
top
a111: Logged on 2017-09-02 21:35 asciilifeform:
they luvvv
their blackbody
mircea_popescu: yes, if out of 300mn cattle in
the 50 contiguous states 287mn or so "hacked" shit
together on
their crapples
then "99% just use".
mircea_popescu: that nobody has any such
thing is simply not a bit of banal obviousness
these overexcited morons ever stopped
to consider.
mircea_popescu: Mocky
there's
this naive 1990s humanism whereby "the average mankind" will "make an encyclopedia" and "usher in a renaissance" etc.
there's
this hallucinatory notion of a certain kind of hipster utopian mind, whereby "people need
tools for
their private projects".
a111: Logged on 2018-06-27 23:41 asciilifeform: generally --
the industrialist saw
the artisan as a headache, and killed him. nao we get
to 'enjoy'
the fruits of de-artisan'ed industry.
Mocky: i agree re average developer. stepanov says i video
that 1% should write library and 99% should just use. but
that's bs. if 99% don't know algos or
time complexity,
then shouldn't be
trusted with anything
Mocky: german's greek
to me
mircea_popescu: the shittiness of
the "average human" is a large driver of shit, in
those who deign
to consider it.
Mocky: haven't heard of klein
tale
Mocky: stepanov strikes me as guy
trying
to do
the right
thing for a library
to be used by millions of programs, while also being resigned
to
the shityness of c++ and of average developer
mircea_popescu: (i expect everyone's familiar with
the
tale of Klein Zaches genannt Zinnober ?)
mod6: asciilifeform: he mentioned at some point later in
the video
that software had gotten
to such a horrible point (totally correct on
that;
this is in 2002),
that
the goverment should step in and regulate all of
these
things.
mircea_popescu: not even
that, more like "oh,
the lords of
the empire spake
to us! all kneel!!!"
mircea_popescu: everyone's fucked in
the head with
the whole kanzure nonsense.
Mocky: this guy is
the him, ru dude
mod6: It was a pretty informative overview of
the design of STL. Guy was pretty good, had some funny points.
The government regulation part made me recoil a bit.
Mocky: what did you
think?
mod6: I did watch
that video, Mocky.
lobbesbot: asciilifeform:
The operation succeeded.
mod6: That's fine, gives us a chance
to get my other question answered re wpmp. Just let us know. :]
mod6: mircea_popescu: Do you wish
to have all
the shared env stuff setup
through you, or is
this lady going
to sign-up in
the WoT herself?
BingoBoingo: In other mine finds, "Redactora Freelance" is a
things n>=1 girl uses
to describe her latina job
mod6 goes back
to reading
the log
mod6: ben_vulpes: can you fill in
the gaps here ^?
mod6: I'm not sure if
this is all
that is required
to setup wpmp
though. I'm going
to guess not.
mod6: Whomever
the user is, must also be in
the wot as part of
the script requires
that
the executor
to enter in a password for
the user,
then PGP encrypting
that
temporary password
to
the user in
the WoT.
mod6: Ok, so I
think I can help with
this here
too -- as soon as we have an SSH key.
There is a script
to do at least
the useradd part of
this, which I can attempt
to run with
the given key.
mod6 goes
to catch up on ze l0gz
mod6: asciilifeform BingoBoingo : Can you guys address Mr. Popescu's request above here ^. I haven't
the slightest idea on
that stuff.
mircea_popescu: mod6 can you spin me up a mp-wp instance on
the shared item, see if we can counteract
the illiterate part ?
a111: Logged on 2017-03-30 14:38 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i will also nitpick : 'erlang' does not belong in
the list, it was a 1980s product
that worked quite well in its industrial niche (large
telco switches) but was later stolen and used as a
totem by
the folx from yesterday's
thread (
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1633873 )
a111: Logged on 2017-03-30 14:50 asciilifeform:
trinque: erlang wasn't simply about 'uptime', or even 'no pointer arithmetic', it also was
the only case i know of where process migration actually worked
a111: Logged on 2017-03-30 14:43 asciilifeform: anyway erlang is imho only worth discussing as part of a larger pattern -- industry after industry independently discovered
that c -- and its entire approach
to logic -- is poison
mircea_popescu: who
the fuck would want
to compile every
time a web hits
mircea_popescu: where's
that
trilema piece with
the "baby
turtles would have eaten you for breakfast"
thing
mircea_popescu: fuck all
that shit,
two generations of castrated morons
thinking
they have something
to say
to
this world.
mircea_popescu: all
the way
to
typographic nonsense in
the 80s, which is why crapple even exists
today.
mircea_popescu: it was an item continuously, since
the days of chet
tryina get 3 different shit packages
to work by excruciating
them on a wide wooden plank
mircea_popescu: then you're stuck maintaining a whole "it department",
the idiotic airs of "superiority" by
the dweebs involved y compris, because gotta interface all
that junk.
mircea_popescu: and slides in under
the "who'd pull a stink over 0.85%"