asciilifeform: phf: what you & dks et al observed is called complexity shitstack collapse.

asciilifeform: ( as for 'ice' itself, if it were to vanish, we can have clones rolling off conveyor in 6mo or so for coupla hundred btc. not so for magical stateful nic etc )

asciilifeform: no magic 'available until we reversed it, then magically evaporates from market' chips.

asciilifeform: sane comp is to be a fully granular description. i.e. if you can still get transistors, you can still build ENTIRE THING. no exceptions.

asciilifeform: spyked: didja miss the part where it runs on no modern nic ? or the thread where ALL modern nics are built to use dma, which gives the nic vendor access to every byte of your ram ?

asciilifeform: are the hard part.

asciilifeform: reliable controller for usefully large ram, and peripherals ( the only strictly necessary periphs are nic and a reasonable ssd persistent storage )

asciilifeform: spyked: designing a reasonably sane ( a la 'scheme79' ) cpu is not actually the hard part.

asciilifeform: ( and yes genera used it and yes you need it for historically accurate ivorytron. but dun belong in sanecomp. )

asciilifeform: phf: iron floatingpoint Must Die. ☟︎

asciilifeform: they don't belong in the future.

asciilifeform: and other nontagged cpu.

asciilifeform: spyked: forget mips

asciilifeform: !#s movitz

asciilifeform: see also the sad story of movitz

asciilifeform: spyked: as for 'use off the shelf iron', see thread http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-04#1552690 and elsewhere. ☝︎

asciilifeform: and elsewhere, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-04#1694030 , http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-04#1694068 ☝︎☝︎

asciilifeform: ^ some reading

asciilifeform: !#s dma

asciilifeform: spyked: consider, the amount of arbitrary stupidity you import even ~by having pci bus~ is gargantuan

asciilifeform: mod6: mostly snoar

asciilifeform: heya mod6

asciilifeform: a spoonful of unix in a barrel of honey -> barrel of shit .

asciilifeform: you're welcome to spend 7 more. alternatively you can learn from my work.

asciilifeform: spyked: i spend 7+ yrs on this approach, and my verdict is that 'middle way' is a DEAD END

asciilifeform bbl

asciilifeform: and not a single flipflop of state that we didn't consciously put there.

asciilifeform: and there must be NO non-taggedwords code physically anywhere in the machine.

asciilifeform: spyked: i tried this, it's a dead end because papers over idiot hardware rather than replaces. and does not yield hardware sovereignty-- you are at the mercy of the chipmaker's continued making of 100% compatible cpu & peripherals

asciilifeform: spyked: you will find that none of the existing literature is of any help

asciilifeform: after this, comes ethernet

asciilifeform: you gotta minimize the delay and specify gates MANUALLY for the specific fpga

asciilifeform: and no , NOT a matter of 'take opencores hdl and port'

asciilifeform: to do this, will need to make world's first ice40+ddr board -- none exist

asciilifeform: spyked: we have loooooong way to go - try and make a ddr controller first ☟︎

asciilifeform: the other aspect, vlm is a massive bucket of c liquishit, and not at all a compact description of the arch

asciilifeform: whereas physical 'ivory' happily did multi year uptime ☟︎☟︎

asciilifeform: ( as in - crashes )

asciilifeform: for starters, it is buggy

asciilifeform: *imho

asciilifeform: inho not

asciilifeform: 1 level below, x86/arm/pci,sata,usb, etc play same role as unix and microshit -- accumulated layer of sewage ☟︎

asciilifeform: a sane comp is a box with NO unix in it, anywhere.

asciilifeform: rather than merely paper over them

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701413 << to get the fuck off unix and pc. permanently. ☝︎

asciilifeform: !!up r0nin-

asciilifeform: Agrr

asciilifeform: !!v r0nin-

asciilifeform: in the land of pubs with 400 car lots

asciilifeform: meanwhile, in the world of traitorously redacted wickylicks, https://archive.is/Zus30

asciilifeform: well no, not just seam, but whole outer n mm of item

asciilifeform: acidic soil ?

asciilifeform: ( but is it possible that the seam vanished from corrosion, with rest of surface? in ancient pot )

asciilifeform: neato

asciilifeform: aah so it

asciilifeform: ...the item one boils in oil in?

asciilifeform: what's a castle pot

asciilifeform: lol

asciilifeform: better everything but off-arse-gettin'

asciilifeform: cannon-making.

asciilifeform: the interesting bit is that metal lathe was created and refined pre- steam

asciilifeform: well if you dun care what kind of movement - they had it

asciilifeform: depends, on what is meant 'steam engine'

asciilifeform: ( leaving aside the notion of bronze pressure vessel )

asciilifeform: need lathe for symmetrical parts.

asciilifeform: ( the metallurgical lathe, that is )

asciilifeform: they lacked the screw cutter, for instance

asciilifeform: not sure about this

asciilifeform: by that token, heron's steam turbine..

asciilifeform: tensed glass is veerry old idea - recall 'prince rupert's tears'

asciilifeform: mircea_popescuine vintage, even

asciilifeform was just drinking from these

asciilifeform: you could umbilical 2 lm's with it, 1 rides the other

asciilifeform: before nonsensical committee name 'jtag' etc

asciilifeform: phf: lolyes it was debug bus

asciilifeform: afaik even ivory has, e.g., 'spy bus', internally

asciilifeform: the interesting bit is that the mud was never scraped

asciilifeform: the sad part is , apart from the ONE basic win ( tagged word memory ) the lm arch was ~= that kalash, 'shit bolted to all sides'

asciilifeform: ideally would end with the 'good parts' -- the genera envir -- without the rubbish ( the byzantine hacks around specific amd alu chip quirks, the multitude of special purpose busses, the constricted addrspace )

asciilifeform: the pc emu quasi-worked

asciilifeform: phf: i haven't tried the fpga one

asciilifeform: i.e. baked around various arithm chips available at the time, rather than raw transistor

asciilifeform: and arch was dirty

asciilifeform: you wouldn't want to use it nakedly tho -- tiny, by modern standards, addr space

asciilifeform: ( cadr was fpgaized a while back , by b. parker )

asciilifeform: failing this, could start with cadr and slowly backport bolix envir. ☟︎

asciilifeform: best of all, of course, would be for somebody to leak / steal the missing bits.

asciilifeform: and product of men, not monkeys

asciilifeform: ( for one thing, bolix is comparatively small, quasi-logical, and nonmoving target )

asciilifeform: phf: i'd rather spend next decade reversing the bolix firmware, than wintel liquishit

asciilifeform: lol 'junkyard wars' scheme79

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-19#1701101 << much moar schmeisser than kalash really ☝︎

asciilifeform: reconfigured into genset

asciilifeform: it was a diesel-electric. was taken as spoils by su, and briefly was the only source of mains current in odessa when asciilifeform's father moved there as a boy

asciilifeform: did we ever do hitler's yacht ?

asciilifeform: and skorpion

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i could've sworn we did borz

asciilifeform: docs/srcs more even than machine per se

asciilifeform: spyked: i'd be curious to see the ro lm

asciilifeform had nfi